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“Nudity is not a solution”

Guest: Aishwarya

Via India Uncut, this story about a woman in Gujarat who protested against dowry harrasment by walking along a road in her underwear, carrying bangles (an important part of marriage in many parts of India) and a baseball bat.

The protest (especially the baseball bat) made me smile a little, till I read the comments. These fall into two groups, broadly. The first group is of the opinion that while dowry is bad, her “nudity” is far more shocking and she should have found a more socially acceptable way of protesting (because that would’ve gotten her media attention, heh) instead of resorting to “indecent ways”. A subset of this group believes that someone daring enough to do this cannot have been harrassed and is far more likely to be the harrasser, because “ultra-modern girls” in India are regularly filing false charges against their husbands and in-laws, and all the laws are biased and won’t somebody think about the men? (quote: “Time has come where media (like CNN-IBN) should take up a debate on such emerging issues, else if the emerging menace of the wife’s torture on men is not capped, BOYS WILL STOP MARRYING BECAUSE OF FEAR OF HARRASEMENT.”)

The second group are more supportive (as in, they think dowry is an awful thing and she was right to protest) but most of their comments go on and on about the terrible, shameful thing the poor woman has been forced to do, the awful depths to which she has had to sink, etc.

Oh, and? The police are planning to arrest the protester. For indecent behaviour.
The news can be terribly depressing.

28 thoughts on “Nudity is not a solution”

  1. I read this too a few mins back through Amit’s blog. I could only think of commending the woman for coming out and protesting against the utterly crazy practice that still is prevalent in India. The comments, though, are along expected lines; I am not surprised. Anytime a comment is made on the pretext of “indian culture’ you can bet that it’s going to be flimsy and laughable at best (even though it’s not … it’s sad)

  4. Well it’s not even nudity, she’s wearing underwear!! Geesh.

    There’s a picture of her on the bbc article looking very feisty. Needless to say, she’s my new hero.

  5. Very Lady Godiva of her. Didn’t Anne Hutchinson also walk through town nude in protest?

    Maybe this form of her protest was also a way to insure she could cut ties with her husband’s family…they’d be too embarassed to keep trying to force her to return or pay up.

    And the baseball bat was indeed a nice touch.

  6. I loved this comment on the original article:

    “A girl with such daring could do anything, absolutely anything. So much so that she can threaten husband and in-laws.”

    If that’s not a tagline from a 30’s film noir, I don’t know what is.

  7. After reading this, too, I cannot help but feel that the sole purpose of being a woman in India is to bring dowry, deliver a boy, raise it and then vanish again.

    Not being married doesn’t really sound like a bad idea but then I doubt that unmarried women over 25 aren’t suspected to be somehow disturbing either….

  8. her “nudity” is far more shocking and she should have found a more socially acceptable way of protesting (because that would’ve gotten her media attention, heh) instead of resorting to “indecent ways”.

    I always love it when people (parents are very good at this) complain “you know, I would have had more sympathy for you if you didn’t do [X]” or “you would have had less of a problem if you would have been honest in the first place” … when we all know full well that if we didn’t do X, we wouldn’t have been noticed and we would have been punished the same if we fessed up vs. if we tried to hide what we did, etc.

    These sorts of (otherwise unrelated) disingenuities on the part of authority figues always remind me of the old joke about the begger making a scene in front of Rothschild’s mansion … Rothschild finally gives some money to the begger (if only to get him to shut up) and says “if you wouldn’t have made such a scene, I would have given you more money”. To which the begger responds “look, you’re a banker and I’m obviously not — so I don’t give you banking advice. I’m a begger and you’re obviously not — so don’t give me begging advice”.

  9. A very brave woman indeed! Especially since one danger new brides face is being *murdered* because their dowry wasn’t what the husband and his family wanted.

    Even as f*cked up as America is, things like this make me glad I live here.

  10. This is obviously a desperate act by an otherwise intelligent woman who feels she has no other option. I don’t see how walking through the streets as she has done has damaged her dignity any further than what her in-laws have done. In Indian customs, daughters-in-law refer to their in-laws as amma and appa… as if they have another set of parents. Her in-laws should be ASHAMED to be EXTORTING her, and her husband should be ASHAMED for not being man enough to protect his wife from his parents’ GREED.

  11. Even as f*cked up as America is, things like this make me glad I live here.

    Are you for real??? Do you know how damn offensive this sentiment is? Do you think this ONE case represents all of India? Yes, it’s a horrible otracity what’s happened to this woman and many others.

    But for goodness sake’s stop making the assumption that “America” is somehow a better country or that India is ‘worse’.

    Damn americocentric nonsense.

  13. Are you for real??? Do you know how damn offensive this sentiment is? Do you think this ONE case represents all of India? Yes, it’s a horrible otracity what’s happened to this woman and many others.

    But for goodness sake’s stop making the assumption that “America” is somehow a better country or that India is ‘worse’.

    Damn americocentric nonsense.

    Pfft, fuck that noise. Like it or not, when it comes to women’s rights (both de jure and de facto) the US beats India. Don’t like that? Then do something about it, but don’t complain when people refuse to ignore fucked up shit in the name of tolerance.

    Oh, and it’s not an “assumption”. It’s a value judgement based on something that’s widespread in India and essentially unheard of in the US, which the poster in question considers to be a deal breaker. Care to explain how this is not a valid opinion?

  14. Are you for real??? Do you know how damn offensive this sentiment is? Do you think this ONE case represents all of India? . . .
    But for goodness sake’s stop making the assumption that “America” is somehow a better country or that India is ‘worse’.

    Newsflash: Yes, the poster and a lot of others are for real. And yes, women are treated with more respect in the US. The poster never said everything is America is better than India. Are there things that are screwed up in the US? Yes. But does the US have better women’s rights? YES!!! So I suggest you stop your “oooh how dare you criticize my country’, and start looking at reality. Every family in India might not treat a woman like the one in question, but women are treated shabbily in Indian culture. Ask my partner if you like. As Peter Jennings said: Patriotism is (like) loving your family whether it is good or bad, while always striving to make it better. Nationalism simply insists ‘Hey my family is the best’.

    Pfft, fuck that noise. Like it or not, when it comes to women’s rights (both de jure and de facto) the . . .

    Word.

  15. Tom – That is very possibly my favourite comment (apart from the one I quoted in the post).

    SoE, Mhorag, Sophist,FCD – I’m not sure how to defend my country here (and I feel a rather irrational urge to do so). Um. We do have some excessively fucked up notions regarding women (so does the US, but I suppose it’s a question of degree) but things really are getting better.

    It’s me..Maven – “and her husband should be ASHAMED for not being man enough to protect his wife”. Um.

  16. Don’t like that? Then do something about it, but don’t complain when people refuse to ignore fucked up shit in the name of tolerance.

    Oh fer crying out loud. It’s not really necessary to go into paroxysms of GO USA! on one of the rare occasions when someone from somewhere -else- starts talking honestly from her POV, -is- it? Would it be possible to just -listen- for once? Because it’s this sort of thing that makes people retreat into “you know what, I am now going to be silent over the things I find fucked up about my own country/culture and Represent as an ambassador, because clearly nobody here has the faintest clue and I feel like I’m selling out.”

  18. I mean, tell you what: go over to a Eurocentric board, okay, and start trying to explain to them about our health care system, or the religiosity permeating the culture at every step. See what kind of reaction you get (“those barbaric Americans.”) See how you feel like responding.

    and yeah, newsflash: a lot of people do shit -better- than we do, too. It doesn’t mean you still can’t get irritated when people go, o my, -we- don’t have -anything- like that over -here-, thank goodness; how on earth can They stand it? what’s wrong with you Yanks, anyway?

    signed,

    been through this a thousand times with her Irish best friend.

  19. and no, ftr, “thank God I live here” probably wasn’t meant to be offensive, I wouldn’t expect, and no, it also isn’t necessary to go into “boo yah, Amerikka SUCKS!” either.

    it’s just…well, yeah, U.S.-centric is about right. I rather think that Aishwarya knows a helluva lot more about the U.S. than most people here know -anything- about India. Which, to -me- suggests that “hey, here’s something I can learn!” rather than “oh wow, over There -is- weird and scary and i shall now quickly retreat to what’s familiar and comfortable.”

    and, you know: someone starts talking about a fucked-up situation in their family; generally speaking, it’s maybe not the best of all possible responses to blurt:

    “Wow. I thought -my- family was bad, but I’ve never HEARD of anything THAT fucked up. Sucks to be you, boy! Glad I at least have parents/siblings who don’t do -that.-”

    I mean, and it’s even possible that the person might agree with you; it’s also possible that they’ll just wish to hell they never said anything in the damn first place to a bunch of strangers.

  20. Whoa. What is this, the “USA! USA!” thread? Or, maybe just general cultural blindness coupled with nationalistic arrogance. Nothing new there!

    Pfft, fuck that noise. Like it or not, when it comes to women’s rights (both de jure and de facto) the US beats India. Don’t like that? Then do something about it, but don’t complain when people refuse to ignore fucked up shit in the name of tolerance.

    Oh, and it’s not an “assumption”. It’s a value judgement based on something that’s widespread in India and essentially unheard of in the US, which the poster in question considers to be a deal breaker. Care to explain how this is not a valid opinion?

    Newsflash: Yes, the poster and a lot of others are for real. And yes, women are treated with more respect in the US. The poster never said everything is America is better than India. Are there things that are screwed up in the US? Yes. But does the US have better women’s rights? YES!!! So I suggest you stop your “oooh how dare you criticize my country’, and start looking at reality.

    Yes, let’s. Start looking at reality, that is.

    First reality: The US is huge, with many different cultures, cultural practices and levels of enforceable… or maybe just enforced “rights” for women. How well one fares under this system often depends on where you live, who you are, your income level, your ethnicity, the traditional culture of the surrounding community, and many other things.

    Second reality: India is even more huge, with many different cultures, cultural practices and levels of enforceable… or maybe just enforced “rights” for women. How well one fares under this system often depends on where you live, who you are, your income level, your ethnicity, the traditional culture of the surrounding community, and many other things.

    Is there a dowry system in the US? Not formally – not sure if one would call the various cultural connotations and expectations of engagement rings and why bigger is better, or wedding ceremonies (paid for by the bride’s family, no?) and gifts, so on… tradition, maybe? – although there are no doubt informal ones depending on all of the above.

    (I also hesitate to think what would happen to a woman – as a legal matter or no – walking down the street wearing only underwear, bangles and a baseball bat in some US cities or small towns.)

    “Don’t like that? Then do something about it”

    Oh hey! You mean do something like maybe write a post aimed at your fellow “sisters in solidarity” (heh) and bring attention to it? Like others do, when they write posts about purity balls, violence against women, rape victims as hate targets and — well I’ve not actually seen any posts about specific women being publicly held up to shame in and/or ostracized from various US religious communities for stepping outside the bounds of the cultural norms within those communities, but I’m sure they’ve been posted somewhere!

    But most likely not used to indict an entire country or culture because, for some odd reason, some of us have the ability to separate out the disparate parts of cultures and practices of the countries we belong to or are familiar with and to realize that those things do not, in general, represent the entire breadth of the country.

    That silly Aishwarya, I bet she thought that some USA! USA!ians would realize that she has not only the ability, but the right to do the same with the breadth of cultural practices, rights and laws of her country as well.

    Little did she know!

  21. I seriously don’t get the Hindu dowry system. You are required to give money to get rid of a daughter, thus the daughter has actually negative economic value. No wonder infanticides are into the thousands. For all the fuckedupness of Islam, at least the dowry goes the other way which makes sense. It is an investment in the woman by the man so he’s less likely to abandon her. And if he does, she has something to fall back on. In the Hindu way, she could be out on the street, literally in her underwear if the guy thinks that he doesn’t want her any more.

  22. I should say female infanticides up there. I don’t believe there are any significant recorded cases of male infanticide in India.

  23. For those who know about Indian culture: Can women be Hindu gurus and priests? Please let me know if you can; Google is providing conflicting answers. Thank you.

  24. Yes and no. Some sects allow them, others don’t. There are temples that women can’t even enter. Hinduism is far less monolithic than Abrahamic religions so just about anything is allowed by someone and forbidden by someone.

  25. Pingback: Feministe » “Sicko,” addendum, or: it’s the end of the U.S. dominated world as we know it, and I don’t feel so good myself.

  26. So, Farhat, you prefer it when women are just bought from their fathers in the conventional way, as this improves their property value?

  27. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I thought the giving and receiving of dowry in India was taboo, if not outright illegal.

    I stick to my original thoughts that it was a desperate act by a desperate woman.

    Even in a land such as America, [where plenty of Indians view us as Godless sluts], it is JUST AS POTENT OF A VISUAL to walk the streets in one’s underwear as a means of protest. In stark contrast to jailing her, the first response in America usually involves some type of observation to rule out some type of mental illness, rather than criminalizing someone who’s obviously been VICTIMIZED (perhaps repeatedly).

    I find it an interesting, amusing and pathetic dichotomy. Most Americans might hold the stereotype of India being an oppressive country towards women, yet, EVEN INDIA has seen fit to have a woman as their DECIDER-IN-CHIEF. And here we are, it is 2007, and Indian women continue to be extorted (if not killed), by those they have come to call amma and appa (mother and father) all because of the mighty “dowry.”

    Until the notion of dowry (as well as marrying one’s cousins) to maintain family wealth is discontinued, Indian women will continue to be viewed as chattel.

  28. Dowry IS illegal in India and has been for over 40 years.

    There is also nothing in the Hindu scriptures that prevents hindu women from becoming priests.

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