Crap. February 13, 2007 zuzu This sucks. And here’s what you can do about it. UPDATE: Chris points us to something New York State residents can do about it.
There’s also the Attorney General of the State of New York route, described here. I expect residents of the State of New York would have more clout there.
Let me get this straight… Amanda voluntarily quits but it’s all some guy named Donahue’s fault for quoting her anti-Catholic Christian bigotry. reminds me of my unrecovered-alcoholic husband who was never at fault for anything he did… I divorced him 10 years ago and he still blames me. And yes… spam the IRS and the AG…DO act like Students Against War and the International Socialist Organization
Darleen, let me put this in little words so you can understand: Donohue relentlessly and viciously attacked a low-level campaign staffer in the mass media. She wound up resigning rather than make herself an issue any further. Donohue heads a 501(c)(3) organization. That organization gets an exemption from paying taxes, but it has to follow rules. One of those rules is that it has to stay out of electoral politics. Agitating for the removal of a staffer from a Presidential campaign is interfering with electoral politics. Therefore, the IRS might very well be interested in reviewing his organization’s compliance with the rules governing 501(c)(3) organizations.
“Amanda voluntarily quits but it’s all some guy named Donahue’s fault for quoting her anti-Catholic Christian bigotry.” Let’s see, some bigot godbag goes on a slander bender against Amanda, forcing her to quit, and it’s not at all his fault because he’s a bigot who believes in sky-fairies? Reminds me of every other godbag I’ve ever known – nothing is ever their fault, they don’t need to be moral, just or upstanding because the imaginary god is on their side. People like Billy Bigot makes me wish hell were a real place, so that he might suffer the torments he wishes on others so quickly. P.s. Myself and seven other friends have already submitted our complaints. If Billy Bigot wants to play politics, he needs to pay the toll like everyone else.
Darleen, you don’t have that straight. Here’s how it is: A lot of us hate Bill Donohue. He’s an anti-semite and a fully integrated part of the right-wing noise machine. Many of us want to knock him down. By directly interposing himself in a presidential campaign, he may have given us the chance. Also, most of us like Amanda. He took shots at her in public, so fuck him. Whether you or anyone else thinks it is his “fault” that Amanda resigned is of secondary importance at best. So, take your little personal responsibility talking point, put it back in the basket and peddle your bicycle back where you came from.
I absolutely love how often the Christians bust out the whole “religious bigotry” thing and no one actually addresses what Amanda, you know, said. She responded to anti-choice idiots trying to use their religion to take away the rights of women. I frankly thought she was being charitable. And also, will someone please show me where the Catechism and the Bible isn’t misogynist and patriarchal? I’m still waiting for someone, anyone to show that Amanda was wrong. And lastly, “godbag” and “Christofascists” describe the contingent of Xtians that includes Donohue. People who want to create an American theocracy. It’s a shame that so many of these so called Christians have no idea what their religions say, and have the audacity of calling people who aren’t so ignorant “bigots”. And, to top it off, they defend real bigots who are using their faith to further hatred of other people. Just despicable.
BTW, Darleen, you’re always quick to accuse anyone on the left who doesn’t express complete support for Israel as having a problem with “the Joooos.” What do you have to say about Donohue, who’s come right out and said that the Jews running Hollywood hate Christians and love anal sex?
Hey, you want to anklebite some guy I had never heard of until this week, knock yerself out. Funny about angrily wanting to sic a government agency on someone expressing their own angry opinion on another person’s angry opinions ostensibly in the name of “free speech”. What about this little compare and contrast is escaping you? Pastor Edwards The tone and the sentiment of some of Amanda Marcotte’s and Melissa McEwan’s posts personally offended me. It’s not how I talk to people, and it’s not how I expect the people who work for me to talk to people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that kind of intolerant language will not be permitted from anyone on my campaign, whether it’s intended as satire, humor or anything else. with this from Amanda There is good news. The main good news is that I don’t have a conflict of interest issue anymore that was preventing me from defending myself against these baseless accusations. What alternative reality-based world is she living in that she thought she could drop some gratuitous anti-Christian bashing into a movie review and it wouldn’t get noticed, practically on the heels of Edward’s explanation of why he was keeping her. If she actually took responsibility for her own inability to growup and be a serious campaign worker, then you all might be sad, but not ginning up the torches and pitchforks brigade.
This past week must have been an extremely stressful hell for Amanda in a way I cannot even imagine. It’s really upsetting that after his “success,” Donohue will continue to be emboldened to use these disgusting tactics to silence anyone who doesn’t conform to his narrow minded worldview.
zuzu Donahue has every right to be an anti-Semite, just as Amanda has a right to be as Christo-phobic as they come. Its up to his own organization to purge him. Pressure ’em all you want. But the IRS thing is pretty lame. And it’s everyone else’s right to hold an opinion on both and figure out whether or not they want to invite ’em to parties or hire ’em. You know…that freedom of association thing. IMHO the MSM most likely (and cynically) went with Donahue because he’s an easy target. Kind of like that scene in “Close Encounters” when the media turned to the crazy UFO guy rather than the reasonable guy who saw something weird. Doesn’t deflect from the fact of the substance of the charges.
IMHO the MSM most likely (and cynically) went with Donahue because he’s an easy target. Yeah, how dare they report on the guy who is screaming the loudest and making the biggest hullaballoo about the entire situation? That’s just ridiculous of them to report, you know, the NEWS. And “he has every right to be an anti-Semite?” You actually have the gall to let that sentence escape your keyboard? You’re really not worth talking to.
The Christian version of the virgin birth is generally interpreted as super-patriarchal, where god is viewed as so powerful he can impregnate without befouling himself by touching a woman, and women are nothing but vessels. Ok, Jack. Please tell me how this line in a movie review is a measured response to anti-choice idiots, corrects people who don’t know their religion and is addressed only to the member of the Great Theocracy Conspiracy.
No I’m not defending his anti-Semitism! He should be held responsible for it. But how does HIS anti-Semitism excuse Amanda’s?
No, Darlatroll, the IRS thing is not in the least lame. By filing for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization status, he has agreed to certain contractual obligations, including to stay the hell out of electoral politics. His organization’s tax-exempt status is paid for by, among other things, my tax dollars. I don’t want my tax money going to fund an anti-Semitic far-right blowhard any more than you’d want yours to help fund Michael Moore’s next movie. If he wants to be involved in politics, peachy. Then he needs to register with the Federal Elections Commission as a lobbying organization and pay his own damn taxes. ‘kay?
Blitzgal Really? He was the loudest? Good lord, he was a LATE comer to whole thing. Naw, he was the most “colorful”. The MSM loves them scandal (see Anna Nicole Smith) Oh…BTW…re: legal to be an anti-Semite; see the US Constitution.
Darleen, this isn’t some kind of assassination attempt against Bill D, this is just, y’know . . . insisting he follow the law. There are laws about what activities tax-exempt organizations can and cannot engage in, and if he breaks those laws to fuck with one of us, it’s not remotely out of line to call for his punishment.
You’ve never heard of Bill Donohue? Since he’s quoted in the news rather often, that says more about what you read or pay attention to than anything else. Which, fine, but it’s not as if he’s some guy who came out of nowhere. He inserts himself into the media a lot. The very mission of his organization is to get out into the media whenever they feel Catholics have been portrayed in a bigoted manner. Every time you read about how some movie is anti-Catholic? Yeah, that’s Bill Donohue. Donohue has every right to publicly express his opinions regarding Edwards run for President. He does not have the right to do so under the rubric of a tax-exempt organization. It in no way impinges upon his rights to free speech for anyone to advise the IRS that he has broken the law and ought to have the tax-exempt status of his organization revoked. Unless one views paying taxes as an impingement on free speech, in which case one wouldn’t understand the right to freedom of speech. However, I’m sure you don’t hold that view. His organization can continue to exist and speak out on any issues they like. Potentially having to pay taxes on their revenue doesn’t prevent that in any way. That they might prefer to be a tax-exempt organization is irrelevant to their freedom of speech. They have a choice to make regarding their tax status and need to live within the bounds of that choice. Accountability and all.
Darleen, are you actually a radical atheist trying to make religious people look stupid? Because you couldn’t do a better job of making Christians look like idiots if you tried. Well, ok, you’re not in Donohue’s class, but work on it a little and you’ll get there.
“Hey, you want to anklebite some guy I had never heard of until this week, knock yerself out.” Ah, so people and issues are only important if Darleen has heard of them. “Donahue has every right to be an anti-Semite, just as Amanda has a right to be as Christo-phobic as they come. Its up to his own organization to purge him. Pressure ‘em all you want.” Prove that Amanda is “as Christo-phobic as they come”. As Jack has pointed out, how about actually dealing with what she actually posted? Wait – I know why – it’s easier to make baseless accusations based on nothing but what other people have claimed she said, then to crack open the brain a tiny bit to consider an opposing viewpoint. “But the IRS thing is pretty lame.” Well, Darleen has decreed that it’s “pretty lame” so we can all go home now. *lol*
I hope that a suit is succesfully brought against Bill Donahue to revoke his tax-exempt status. It would set a precedent to remove the status from similar people such as Calvin Butts, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
The Christian version of the virgin birth is generally interpreted as super-patriarchal, where god is viewed as so powerful he can impregnate without befouling himself by touching a woman, and women are nothing but vessels. Darleen – why would this be viewed as insulting? The biggest hoopla about Amanda’s “anti-Catholic” quotes was the complete outrage of her comparing the Holy Spirit to semen touching a woman. *gasp* When the Holy Spirit, you know, impregnated Mary, so the comparison seems rather apt. Why would it be viewed as anti-Catholic, degrading, and blasphemous unless the process of touching a woman would be viewed as God befouling himself? Because I’m rather missing something here. All the outrage about blasphemy seems to be prooving Amanda’s point.
…the Great Theocracy Conspiracy http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/falwell-wants-dominionist-in-white.html
Bill Donohue’s tax-exempt organization has the following folks on its board: Brent Bozell III Gerard Bradley Linda Chavez Robert Destro Dinesh D’Souza Laura Garcia Robert George Mary Ann Glendon Dolores Grier Alan Keyes Stephen Krason Lawrence Kudlow Thomas Monaghan Michael Novak Kate O’Beirne Thomas Reeves Patrick Riley Robert Royal Russell Shaw William Simon, Jr. Paul Vitz George Weigel (via Sadly, No!) Yup, real non-partisan, apolitical, and dedicated to nothing but defending the One True Holy Catholic And Apostolic Church (remember, he didn’t have a problem with McCain speaking at Bob Jones U, where they teach that all Catholics are going to Hell…)
Yeah, Pandagon’s down; I gather from the comments here that Amanda’s resigned from the Edwards campaign? And Darleen, the idea of the virgin birth as super-patriarchal is not Amanda slamming Christianity; it’s a pretty common trope. The Almighty Father makes this girl pregnant without coming in contact with original sin, which only women carry. The same sort of disgust for female bodies can be seen in the various Greek myths in which Zeus births children from assorted body parts. But I’m sure you’ll just dismiss me as a raving anti-Christian asshole, so whatever.
Darleen, Bill Donohue’s anti-Semitism, Muslim-bashing, sexual-abuse survivor trashing, and gay-bashing are important because he’s going after someone, publicly, and demanding she be fired for alleged bigotry. If you all agree that bigotry is bad, bad, mmmkay, then it surely would behoove you folks on the right to hold your own to the same standards. And as someone who was raised as Catholic, is part of a Catholic family, and lives in a heavily Catholic state, know this: he’s fooling the (supposedly liberal) MSM, but he’s not fooling any of us. This is the same asshole who classified Catholics for Choice as a hate group for being, well, pro-choie, and wanted to yank their 501 c 3 funding. Oddly enough, it wasn’t “silly” then. So Donahue, his jackals, and you can just stop your whining and sniveling, and go gaze at your pictures in the dictionary. You’ll find them under “hypocrite.”
As I was saying over at Pandagon, I think the transcript of when Donohue was on Tucker Carlson’s show are good evidence that he interferes in electoral politics by getting campaigns to fire people. He also says how he has done it in the past. What I think are the most telling parts: CARLSON: Heading up the campaign to get the women fired from the Edwards campaign is Bill Donohue. He‘s president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, and he joins us now. DONOHUE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) in 2004 worked for the Kerry/Edwards campaign. I found about her background and they had to silence her. Then they got Brenda Bartel Peterson (ph) to quit or be fired because of her background. I think this is a great idea. The reason that the mainstream media picked up on this whole thing was because Donohue supposedly represents a non-partisan, if conservative, organization. The MSM took his complaints more seriously than Malkin, a recognized partisan commentator. The Catholic League’s 501(c)(3) status not only gives them tax breaks, but also a rebuttable presumption of legitmacy as a non-partisan organization.
The idea that women are merely vessels in conception comes from the Scholastic tradition (and I believe the Scholastics got it from Aristotle, their favorite pre-Christian). Saying that woman-as-vessel is part of Christian theological tradition is merely stating the obvious. Either Darleen wants to whitewash the embarrassing parts of the doctrine, or she only gets offended when the people making obvious assertions are critics.
I think it should also be pointed out that not only does 501(c)(3) status get them tax breaks, it gets them donations. If their status is revoked, then those donations aren’t tax deductible.
It’s a double-edged sword to sic the taxing authorities on your political opponents, because there are probably as many religious organizations on the left that cross the line into politics as on the right. Additionally, the tactic may be ineffective if the Catholic League has done what the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights has done — formed a non-tax exempt 501(c)(4) organizationto to conduct political advocacy, a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) Educational Fund to promote public awareness. I also find selective appeals to “it’s the law” unsettling in the context of speech. McCain-Feingold, which places limitations on speech within 60 days of a general election, is the law, but it would be unfortunate if candidates actually began invoking it to silence political adversaries in the private sector.
Why is everyone reacting to this as if Donahue is the first mouthpiece of a religious organization to ever attempt to influence a campaign or election? Calvin Butts, for example, is the reverend of Abyssinian Baptist Church in New York and benefits from similar 501(c)(3) tax status. He preaches from his pulpit, literally, calling for particular politicians not only to resign from their positions but that some should be impeached. He additionally suggests to his congregation how they should vote in elections. The same goes for Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who also file under 501(c)(3). These people have been influencing the political dynamic for YEARS. Why this sudden outcry over something as benign as a resignation?
If she actually took responsibility for her own inability to growup and be a serious campaign worker, then you all might be sad, but not ginning up the torches and pitchforks brigade. Darlene it looks like these nutcases have hijacked her site, are flooding her email with hate messages and I’d take a gamble and say threats are involved as well. And it’s Amanda who acted innapropriately? You quote free association what about freedom of speech? Amanda has every right to express her views on her own time on her own turf (and if Edwards can’t fucking handle it how is he going to run the free world??). Now she’s being harassed to all hell by these oh so lovely christians (you must be so proud). And this is even after they all but won, at least in their eyes. Something needs to be done here. These people are just out of fucking control.
I’ve totally lost interest in the Edwards campaign at this point. His complete non-response to this situation is shameful, and it totally tells me that he’s not at all interested in standing up for women’s rights if it’s not going to profit him directly. As someone who agreed fully with every word of the “inflammatory statements” that these nutcases were objecting to, which were completely reasonable if you’re not, y’know, INSANE.. Edwards’ failure here is acute and painful. He will absolutely throw his allies to the wolves rather than mount any kind of defense in the media. Not only is that despicable, it’s no way to win the presidency. If this is how his campaign is run he’s got no chance. It may be satisfying to strike back against Donahue where Edwards refused to do so… but I say, let’s throw our support whole-heartedly behind allies who will fight for us. Donahue is beneath contempt and will only swell in importance with this kind of counterattack – if you think he won’t martyr himself over this, you don’t know the fundies very well. It will only be more fuel for the “leftists are anti-christian!!!!” fire. Move on. Show that we’re a powerful force of support for anyone who’s willing to be a true ally.
countryKyle, why do you insist on trying to pointing out supposed violations by black activists and/or preachers. If you feel they have done so, you should report them for investigation. I’m all for it. The strictures should enforced across the political spectrum. If they have been investigated and found not to be in violation of the 501 c 3 strictures and you disagree with that. TS. Otherwise, shut your yap, because the “but, but the Democrats to it too” whine does not cut it.” The past is the past and any non-profit should mind the lines as drawn and not cross them. If you think that anyone should cut Donohue and his non-profit slack you are cracked. The political process will not become cleaner by following your example.
Why this sudden outcry over something as benign as a resignation? I’d hardly call Amanda’s resignation ‘benign’ when it was prompted by the bullying of a misogynistic, hate-spewing creep. I don’t like to think of myself as vindictive, but if there’s any possible way I can help Donohue and his ilk get what’s coming to them, I’m willing to give it a go.
It’s a double-edged sword to sic the taxing authorities on your political opponents, because there are probably as many religious organizations on the left that cross the line into politics as on the right. And that’s wrong. And they should lose their tax status for it. I just left a job with a politically active 501(c)3, where I worked on and off for the last 9 years. We came up against that politics firewall all the time. It’s not at all hard to stay within the letter of the law. It’s an easy set of rules to play by, and people that fuck it up should face the consequences.
I also find selective appeals to “it’s the law” unsettling in the context of speech. Speaking solely for myself, I don’t view this as an issue of speech. Donohue has every right to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants. It’s just that speech isn’t protected by tax-exemption any more than it’s protected by a private organization having to keep you in their employ. It’s protected in other ways. McCain-Feingold, IMO, is different because it puts actual government-imposed restrictions on speech. Tax status doesn’t, because the speech isn’t what’s being restricted. Re: other charitable organizations, religious or otherwise, losing tax-exempt status for participating in politics? Fine with me. I don’t care what type of politics they espouse. We all have the right to freely express political speech. I don’t care for the idea that some are getting privileged over others via improper tax exemptions. Having tax exempt status is a privilege we bestow in order to encourage certain types of activities. Those activities don’t and shouldn’t include politics.
I’ve totally lost interest in the Edwards campaign at this point. I agree. I’m pretty sure I’m going to vote for Bill Richardson in the primary. Because, you know, god forbid we get someone with some diplomatic experience to run the country post-Bush. I’m sure something will come out in the future though to make me dislike him too.
My comment was vacant of any suggestions, express or implied, to cut donahue any slack. If memory serves correct, I beleive I stated earlier that Donahue should be stripped of his beneficial tax status (pending adjudication in the proper agency). I would be a great advocate in having ALL similar organizations stripped of their favorable tax position. I could care less of political affiliation. I was attempting to articulate my curiosity in the sudden rush to arms over the behavior of Donahues organization. All of these groups/individuals, including Donahue, have been doing this for years. In the past, these groups have demonstrated a much higher degree of aggregious political interference then that demonstrated in the Edwards/Donahue/Marcotte dichotomy. I will ask again, why the sudden outcry towards these groups over the resignation of a lower eschelon employee of a presidential campaign? Amanda left on her own accord. She gave into Donahue’s pressure, not her employer. Is it because this is the first time people are being exposed to the behavior of such organizations?
I’ve totally lost interest in the Edwards campaign at this point. I suggest you go to the Edwards web site and write a note telling him that. He and other candidates need to know that progressive voters won’t stand for this sort of behavior. I kind of hate to say this, because he does have his good points, but his campaign needs to be shot down and quickly lest other candidates take to kissing the feet of right wing lunatics and forgetting who their actual voters are.
countryKyle, this is not the first time people have expressed issues with religious organizations taking part in politics. I’m not sure how many of them have been posted about here at Feministe, but it’s hardly the first time something of this sort has been brought up. I live in NYC, and I’ve absolutely seen people express problems with and question the tax-exempt status of churches in NYC making political statements. I can’t say I personally recall Donohue specifically intervening in a political campaign before, though, which may speak more to my own awareness of his activities. Fine, I’ll cop to that. I mostly remember him from his constant warnings about movies.
This is teh suck. I, in my total non-might, am declaring tomorrow International Panda Day, because not being a U.S. citizen, there’s not much else I can do.
Note that Pandagon has been inaccessible almost continually since Auguste posted that sample complaint form. If you can’t get to Pandagon you can’t see which form to fill out to complain, right? It would be real interesting to see exactly which scumbags are doing the DOS attack on Pandagon. That shit’s in violation of Federal law, you know, though I suppose for something to be done about it, you’d have to find someone in the executive branch to try and catch these particular criminals, and I don’t expect that this instance of blatant lawbreaking is something this totally politicized Administration can be arsed to investigate.
Well it’s a bugger that the site’s down but on the other hand, there ain’t many who could use a holiday more right now.
Yeah. I feel so bad for Amanda. This must be pretty hellish. I will make panda-shaped baked goods for International Panda Day. Actually, I could probably pull off mouse or disco-ball-shaped baked goods, too.
Shelby, Well, fuck. This whole thing is so stupid, and I’m bummed that it happened to such great bloggers. Inflammatory, yes, outspoken, hell yes—and talking about just the sorts of issues I want to see a candidate talking about. Okay. So now in my unofficial capacity, I’m changing tomorrow to International Shakespeare and Panda Day.
DONOHUE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) in 2004 worked for the Kerry/Edwards campaign. I found about her background and they had to silence her. Then they got Brenda Bartel Peterson (ph) to quit or be fired because of her background. Anyone else notice anything that all of the people that Donohue brags about getting fired have in common? Not surprising, but still infuriating.
I’m somewhat of a lurker at both sites. It’s totally depressing that SS felt she had to resign for the safety of her family and the vitriol is still coming through on her comments.
The whole 501(3) status thing, btw, is not something that lefty blogs originated. I thought I remembered a little something about progressive groups being investigated back around the 2004 elections, so I did a little Googling and voila! Interestingly, the churches that fell all over themselves to take credit for Bush’s win didn’t face any similar scrutiny. Well, there was a church in Pasadena that was investigated by the IRS… for supporting Kerry.
Dammit! I was afraid this might happen, but I really hoped it wouldn’t. Now we can sit back and wait for the MSM to cover how Amanda and Shakes have been threatened, and Pandagon’s being attacked, and how crazymean and bigoted the rightwingers are. Ha. Yeah. Like that will happen.
“The Almighty Father makes this girl pregnant without coming in contact with original sin, which only women carry.” Unfortunately, that doesn’t hold any water, since, according the the Catholic Church, Mary was conceived without Original Sin.
…Luna, you’re absolutely right. That’ll teach me to try and discuss theology before I’ve had my coffee.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t hold any water, since, according the the Catholic Church, Mary was conceived without Original Sin. Only because it was God and only because he didn’t touch her. It’s the great mythological mind fuck, no?
Only because it was God and only because he didn’t touch her. I think you’re confusing Mary’s conception with Jesus’s. According to Catholic doctrine, Mary was conceived in the normal fashion, but her conception was immaculate because it wasn’t sullied by original sin. There was sex and touching and two human parents: they just miraculously failed to pass on their hereditary sinfulness.
Only because it was God and only because he didn’t touch her. I think you’re confusing Mary’s conception with Jesus’s. According to Catholic doctrine, Mary was conceived in the normal fashion, but her conception was immaculate because it wasn’t sullied by original sin. There was sex and touching and two human parents: they just miraculously failed to pass on their hereditary sinfulness.
SH/38: “the free world”? Wikipedia says he’s some dude running in the US elections? Please clarify which one it is? (Unless that was informed by the John Petroski School of Irony and Satire?)