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Why calling out misogyny matters, part 2: When misogyny is used against men

It seems that Barack Obama’s performance during a recent campaign stop at a bowling alley wasn’t manly enough for Joe Scarborough:

During the March 31 edition of MSNBC’s Morning Joe, co-hosts Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist repeatedly mocked Sen. Barack Obama’s bowling performance — which Scarborough called “dainty” — at a March 29 campaign stop at Pleasant Valley Lanes in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Deriding Obama’s score, he said: “You know Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it’s a man, to be a real man.” Scarborough added, “You get 150, you’re a man, or a good woman,” to which Geist replied, “Out of my president, I want a 150, at least.”

Later in the show, after NBC political analyst Harold Ford Jr. said that Obama’s bowling showed a “humble” and “human” side to him, Scarborough replied, “A very human side? A prissy side.” Ford asserted that Obama, who reportedly plays pick-up basketball, is a “heck of an athlete.” Later, Scarborough acknowledged: “I’ll challenge him to a bowl-off. But basketball — he looks like he’s in pretty good shape. I would just have to post low.” Switching to football, Ford also said to Scarborough: “I’d throw him a pass on you, too. I’ve seen you. I think he could probably take you down the sideline on a post route.”

I was not aware that one’s manhood was dependent on one’s ability to hit the requisite number of pins with a big ball while wearing rented shoes.

(Apparently, according to Scarborough, it also depends on one’s ability to drink a beer in a bar in South Boston like you belong there. Like St. Ronnie could.)

Like I said in my earlier post, it’s important to call out misogyny because misogyny hurts all women. Here’s an example of misogyny hurting men — because the ultimate put-down of a man is to equate him to a woman. If we fight the idea that being a woman is not something to be sneered at, we not only raise women, but we deprive bullies of one of the most powerful weapons in their arsenal against men.

The issue of manliness is a perennial one in Presidential politics, particularly for the Democratic candidate. Republicans are presumptively manly, but Democrats, being of the “mommy party,” face an uphill battle on this score. And so you get a lot of photo-ops of Democratic candidates playing sports (Hillary Clinton, it should be noted, has already been deemed Not A Woman Because She’s Trying Too Hard To Be A Man, so she would probably be exempt from this nonsense).

Not to mention, you also get a lot of chest-beating from Democrats who think that the only way the Dems can win is to put up more macho candidates like Jim Webb, ignoring the fact that he’s not all that popular in the party and would never have gotten elected had it not been for George Allen’s “Macaca Moment.”

Be sure to watch the video or at least read the transcript for an example of the kind of anxious masculinity display we can expect in the general election should Obama become the nominee. What’s most amusing about it is that Scarborough starts off mocking Obama for not being a good bowler, then gets reminded that Obama is, in fact, an athlete and regularly plays basketball, a sport Scarborough respects. So then, he starts challenging Obama to play him, and gets reminded by Harold Ford and the others there that Obama could probably beat his ass. So he goes back to mocking the way that Obama bowls.

A word about the bowling: Bowling is considered a blue-collar, middle-American sport, and TV pundits with penthouses in Manhattan and seven-figure salaries like to fancy themselves to be blue-collar, middle-American types, and the Democrats as Chardonnay-swilling coastal elites. So another tactic is to cast the Democrat as some kinda snotty elite who’s not down with the salt-of-the-earth types:

SCARBOROUGH: Baby, if you go to Altoona, Pennsylvania, on a Saturday night and you’re going to try to bowl —

SCARBOROUGH: — he didn’t go bowling in Cambridge that much. That’s a guy that’s been studying a lot of — reading a lot of books.

FORD: But he looked like — I mean, he looked like folks, he looked like an American. A Pennsylvanian — he looked like someone, day in and day out —

[crosstalk]

[Mika] BRZEZINSKI: No, no, no.

SCARBOROUGH: He was bowling in his tie —

FORD: — except the bowling. The bowling hurt it.

Ford pulled it out by mentioning the basketball, which is hard to spin as an elitist sport. But expect more of this kind of crap later on, if the 2004 election is any guide. Simply being an athlete isn’t enough; you have to be an athlete in the right sports that send the right message. For instance, John Kerry is very athletic, but he was photographed windsurfing, which was tagged elitist, and thereafter, all you ever heard about was the cost of his equipment even in non-elitist sports like mountain biking. On the other extreme, Bill Clinton was mocked by the press for his cheerfully lousy golf game, because the narrative was that he was some kind of hillbilly interloper and didn’t belong in Washington.

It will be interesting to see how the campaign handles these narratives as the election goes on. I also wonder how they’ll deal with the expected hunting photo-ops in the fall.


69 thoughts on Why calling out misogyny matters, part 2: When misogyny is used against men

  1. I was offended by Scarborough’s comment, too. MSNBC has a serious problem with their personalities and sexism. They need to fire Abrams and hire a woman. Matthews, Shuster, and Scarborough would change real quick. In fact, they shouldn’t stop at Abrams–fire Matthews, Shuster, and Scarborough as well.

  2. Here’s an example of misogyny hurting men — because the ultimate put-down of a man is to equate him to a woman.

    Yes, people use misogyny when insulting men, but it’s still more offensive to women than to the man being put down – because our very sex IS the insult!

    Even when men are called “pussies” or “dainty,” the message is that maleness > femaleness.
    Women are still dragged into the mix when men are “insulted” in this way. We are the primary targets, not men.

  3. Eh. Mountain biking is pretty elitist, really. Even a lower-end bike costs more than many of the cars my family owned, and the time and money to take off to the mountains and go riding around on a thousand-dollar-plus cycle puts it out of the range of most of us working stiffs.

  4. I wholeheartedly agree that women are the primary targets… and I think Zuzu would, too, which is why this is called “misogyny.” But I also think that this type of misogyny does hinder men’s performance and behavior. That is, men aren’t “allowed” to be “dainty” or whatever; they have to always show their “manliness” in these specific ways. And I’m not saying “oh, poor men.” It’s just that in a way, I do think women have a bit more room in being “like men” than men have in being “like women,” because to be like a man is to rise in the world, whereas to be like a woman is to fall. If we were truly equal, neither side would have to worry as much about how those actions would be perceived.

  5. “You get 150, you’re a man, or a good woman,” to which Geist replied, “Out of my president, I want a 150, at least.”

    Wow.
    So, the minimal standard for being a man is 150, but if you get that, you’re a good woman. I guess my 105 average makes me almost subhuman. Not only is this offensive because of the sexism aspect, but, honestly, the suggestion that someone’s bowling average somehow has an impact on their ability to lead the nation? That’s easily hitting into the “most idiotic ‘political’ commentary I’ve ever heard” box.

  6. I wonder how much of this is also because bowling is seen as a “white” sport. It seems to work as a subtle reminder that Obama is not white, not really American, in the racist’s view. A real manly American man would be macho/white/everyman enough to be good at bowling.

  7. Ugh… seriously, BOWLING skills are used to determine who and what a man is? You gotta be kidding me… just, cripes almighty, what is this? The 1950s?

    Ohhhh, pundits… you fail. Being a woman is not a failure, but using them as an insult IS.

  8. Mountain biking is pretty elitist, really. Even a lower-end bike costs more than many of the cars my family owned, and the time and money to take off to the mountains and go riding around on a thousand-dollar-plus cycle puts it out of the range of most of us working stiffs.

    If you’re going for a thousand-dollar-plus bike, absolutely. But, seriously, you don’t have to have a thousand-dollar-plus bike to go trail riding or whatever. You don’t even have to get close to it- you can get a perfectly fine bike for less than $300. I’ve never paid more than $180 for a bike, and mine worked great for trail riding. As far as the time/money aspect- that’s geographic, but you don’t have to be on a mountain to go riding. I couldn’t really go *mountain* biking in Michigan (given, you know, the relative lack of mountains and such), but there were plenty of bike trails in the parks and neighborhoods all over the place, here, including many on steep hills and through forests and such. And if you’re in the Penn area, for example, it’s gotta be nothing to find a mountain to bike on. Biking as a hobby-sport is actually pretty inexpensive compared to other sports that aren’t seen as elitist. Camping? Fishing? You’ve got initial investment, sure, but after the initial payment, you’ve got a mode of transportation and recreation and almost no future investments necessary.

  9. Geist’s father was one of the best, most underrated newspaper columnists I ever read. It’s too bad the son is turning out to be such a jerk.

  10. Eh. Mountain biking is pretty elitist, really. Even a lower-end bike costs more than many of the cars my family owned, and the time and money to take off to the mountains and go riding around on a thousand-dollar-plus cycle puts it out of the range of most of us working stiffs.

    I’m with you on this one, bellatrys, but let me also say that I agree with zuzu’s main point. Certain sports can be spun as appropriate or inappropriate depending on the cultural message one is trying to get across.

  11. It’s just that in a way, I do think women have a bit more room in being “like men” than men have in being “like women,” because to be like a man is to rise in the world, whereas to be like a woman is to fall.

    Julia Serano has some great analysis of how hatred of femininity operated semi-independently from misogyny directed at women in her book Whipping Girl. Basically, she says the same thing: that we, as a culture, understand why women would want to be like men–because “masculinity” is coded as awesome and powerful–whereas men who display signs of “femininity” (however that’s decided) challenge the gender hierarchy by suggesting that being feminine, regardless of gender, might actually be a positive thing!

    So in order to combat misogyny, we actually have two related tasks–to re-value those things that are coded feminine, and also dis-connect those behaviors, attributes, whatever, from womanhood specifically, so that women and men will be able to express a full range of human emotion and behavior. I think we can make an argument for this without losing sight of the way women are particularly targeted and hurt by the misogyny of the current culture.

  12. Even when men are called “pussies” or “dainty,” the message is that maleness > femaleness.
    Women are still dragged into the mix when men are “insulted” in this way. We are the primary targets, not men

    Bingo. And, since this particular man couldn’t be bothered to speak out against misogyny before, I can’t say I feel very sorry for him being the target now. How’s it feel on the receiving end?

  13. Betty, right. I don’t feel bad for men who are on the receiving end of misogyny (if that’s even possible). I feel bad for womankind when men are put down with misogynist insults. I agree with Annajcook completely, but I can’t bring myself to sympathize with men who ignore misogyny until someone calls them a mangina.

  14. OK, someone needs to cough up the obvious here: I guess FDR must have been the suckiest president ever, then, right?

    I mean, seriously. BOWLING AVERAGE? If “caveman Americans” fall for this shit, they deserve John McCain. Unfortunately, I don’t.

  15. Well, is there still a bowling alley in the White House? If Obama wins, he can practice then. Between 3 am phone calls.

  16. I find this post almost unbelievable since it was not too long ago feminists were marveling at how Obama encompassed feminine attibutes while Clinton had to prove she was like a man and this was her downfall. Someone, somewhere even remarked how Obama was almost the first female president akin to Bill Clinton as the first black candidate. Whether this type of comment was to take Hillary out of the race is a possibility. The Obama femininity comparisons have been out there for a while and the Republicans are chomping at the bit to use it to their advantage. If this does not wake every woman up to vote for Hillary I don’t know what will. The sexism in this election is so rampant and predominantly innuendo I have ceased watching any form of election coverage.

    Yesterday on his radio show Sean Hannity kept repeating Obama’s bowling score of 67 and discussing it like it was news. I think the point these pundits are trying to make is that Obama is less than masculine, which fails since the guy is good at another sport, basketball.

    Everytime these pundits need to make an analogy they revert to sports. I am so sick and tired of the sports connections. Either they are completely brain dead or are trying to keep the focus on masculinity. They have not realized or have completely ignored the fact that women watch and play sports therefore can relate.

  17. tinfoil hattie – hah!

    the best possible score in bowling is 300, I think (yes, I was in a league once, and my dad was an excellent bowler!), so 150 is ok.

    As for Scarborough – I’d like to correct another statement of his – the bar famous for Reagan’s visit here in Boston, the Eire Pub, is in DORCHESTER, not S. Boston – two different places up here!! Despite my family being from Dorchester, incl. the Irish stronghold section of Neponset where the Eire Pub is, I don’t even feel comfortable going there, as it says “Men’s Club” on the front, and I was afraid to discover the worst of my parochial Boston-Irish people if I went inside. (My boyfriend subsequently went there w/his gay brother and all was well, though they weren’t inspired to stay for more than a drink.) I cringe at the suggestion that Obama should ever make the Eire Pub a campaign stop on the trail.

    Idiots.

  18. Wait, does this mean Scarborough wants a president who spends all his time bowling rather than, say, developing policies, conducting diplomatic missions, etc.? I presume the answer is yes since diplomacy isn’t “manly.”

  19. Being good at bowling has nothing to do with manliness, really. Well, it does, but just today, because Obama happens to not be very good at it. The thing is, being sufficiently manly is a very fluid threshold. The threshold is set by whatever self-appointed guardian of sacred penis (aka bully) is doing the setting. And where the threshold is set is dependent entirely on the attributes of the target of the bullying. If Obama could bowl 270 and air-balled his free throws, bowling would be a mockable, prissy, psuedo-sport, and basketball prowess would be the threshold.

  20. Good post, zuzu. This is absurd/sad on many levels.

    (And 150 would be a very good score for someone who isn’t an avid bowler.)

  21. I agree with Annajcook completely, but I can’t bring myself to sympathize with men who ignore misogyny until someone calls them a mangina.

    And even after, apparently. He he said anything about it?

  22. I’m not talking about Obama specifically, Betty. Just in general. And usually those men don’t give a rat’s ass about misogyny, per se; they just don’t like being attacked with misogynist slurs themselves.

  23. Nitpick, zuzu: Jim Webb seemed awfully well liked here in Virginia, much more than Harris Miller, who the local party activists supported. The election was tight before the “macaca” meltdown, so Webb could have pulled it out even if Allen hadn’t firmly put his foot in his mouth.

  24. Yeah. MSNBC has a misogyny problem. They’ve saved the most vicious stuff for Hillary Clinton, of course, but it turns up everywhere.

    I don’t think I can stand to argue about who’s a better bowler from now until November, although I actually think it might not be such a bad thing for Obama to be bad at something. Its humanizing.

  25. We must judge our President on his bowling ability and NOT his political views.

    Can we please see some McCain bowling? He would probably break something or start humping the ball. Or refuse to stick his fingers in its holes because that would count as adultery.

  26. I find this post almost unbelievable since it was not too long ago feminists were marveling at how Obama encompassed feminine attibutes while Clinton had to prove she was like a man and this was her downfall. Someone, somewhere even remarked how Obama was almost the first female president akin to Bill Clinton as the first black candidate.

    “Feminists”? Like who? Because the only person I saw advancing this theory was Michael Scherer at Salon. Who got roundly criticized by feminists for his position.

  27. Come on, Zuzu, really? How, pray tell, is this a feminist issue? Hats off to Astraea, Betty and SaraMC for spelling this out. Not being manly enough is an issue relevant to men, with a nice side order of misogyny. It has some tangential relevance but is ultimately about men.

    Is this a reaction to some of the critique of your Hillary-misogyny post as not being intersectional enough? Sure, feminism needs to keep the lens on color, disability, orientation, class, and other issues relevant to women. Having a penis and being accused of being dainty is not one of these issues, it’s one of the comparatively MUCH fewer ways that gender is held against men.

    Feminism, though, is about women.

  28. Either they are completely brain dead or are trying to keep the focus on masculinity.

    Both, possibly. Also, I remain amazed at the lows that the punditry sinks to–there are so many relevant, important issues to talk about, and instead they mock Obama’s bowling abilities?

  29. It’s these same grossly insulting stereotypes that all men face everywhere. We live in a society that demands we be athletic gods, or simply creatures buffooning around the house in the hopes we don’t burn the pasta so our wife might finally acquiesce to sleep with us. I think its ridiculous to slam Obama on his presidential qualifications simply because he doesn’t bowl. Why doesn’t the media focus on something a little more pertinent, maybe about the genocide we’re committing in Iraq or the fact that our president breaks the law on a daily basis.

  30. Come on, Zuzu, really? How, pray tell, is this a feminist issue? Hats off to Astraea, Betty and SaraMC for spelling this out. Not being manly enough is an issue relevant to men, with a nice side order of misogyny. It has some tangential relevance but is ultimately about men.

    Are you serious?

    Do you *not* see a problem with the use of feminizing language to insult men? Do you *not* see that calling a man a woman because a woman is the worst thing on earth to be is inherently misogynist?

    Is this a reaction to some of the critique of your Hillary-misogyny post as not being intersectional enough? Sure, feminism needs to keep the lens on color, disability, orientation, class, and other issues relevant to women. Having a penis and being accused of being dainty is not one of these issues, it’s one of the comparatively MUCH fewer ways that gender is held against men.

    And yet its effectiveness against men depends very much on the misogynist premise that bitches ain’t shit.

    Would you prefer that we *not* call this out?

  31. Normally I get that warm tingly feeling for being recognized and responded to on a blog…. Not so much this time. You missed my point, Octogalore. (and the others’ I suspect)

  32. Bowling is considered a blue-collar, middle-American sport, and TV pundits with penthouses in Manhattan and seven-figure salaries like to fancy themselves to be blue-collar, middle-American types, and the Democrats as Chardonnay-swilling coastal elites.

    Working class whites make up at roughly 1/3 of the population. Douche bags like Scarborough target blue collar white males with sexist messages to break off a portion of them to back their pro-rich reactionary agenda and also silence the guys who are leaning towards Obama (or Hillary). Note: the majority of blue collar men who are unionized don’t fall far this and don’t vote republican.

    Perhaps if feminists want to reach these men with a counter message, they should stop taking about “white men” as if they all have the same interests and are somehow of all the same class. If you want to have a dialogue with these working class guys, I would suggest not sending the usual leftists professors (Dyson, hooks, Wise, Jensen) who inevitably like to lecture not so privileged people about how privileged they are, which pretty much ends the conversation right there.

  33. I always thought that feminism was about patriarchy, that patriarchy was a rigid set of gender roles imposed on everyone in which system women were hugely disadvantaged, but which system was a lot worse for everyone than not living in patriarchy.

    Joe Scar absolutely may not lick my ass.

  34. The misogyny is odious enough on its own, but I’m also repulsed by the fact that all these geniuses seem to think that learning to bowl a good game is obviously a more important use of a politician’s time than reading and learning. They praise the skills that make a good politician, while being actively contemptuous toward the skills that would actually make a good President.

  35. SarahMC @ 12:

    I don’t feel bad for men who are on the receiving end of misogyny (if that’s even possible).

    I don’t feel bad for men who get called “pussy” for wearing a pink tie, or who, like Obama, are supposedly lousy bowlers.

    However, I feel that the farther a man diverges from the extremely narrow path that is approved for men, the less privilege is granted to him. Men who are highly gender-variant, especially if they are gay, are at a pretty damned high risk of being violently attacked, up to and including murder. Matthew Shepard was murdered more for his femme presentation as much as for the fact that he was gay; his murder was truly an act of misogyny.

    Highly gender-variant gay men may not suffer from the effects of patriarchy as much as women do, but they’re pretty damned low in the hierarchy, and the heteronormative enforcers of that heirarchy are damned near as eager to put their boots on such a man’s neck as they are on a woman’s neck.

    And usually those men don’t give a rat’s ass about misogyny, per se; they just don’t like being attacked with misogynist slurs themselves.

    This is *very* true.

  36. Feminism, though, is about women.

    Ah yes, the “Feminism is…” statement. Always good for provoking a long and bloody feud between people working towards the same goals from different philosophical points of view.

    This time, I think we should all sit out.

  37. Of course it’s misogynist. And I was too impetuous above. I love your writing and reacted emotionally here, esp as I haven’t commented on the thousands of your posts that I’ve found flawless.

    But the framing here, not the argument, bothered me. Here you make a brilliant post yesterday about misogyny affecting Clinton. There are some comments critiquing the post as being too narrow. Then there is a post today about misogyny affecting Obama, but in a very limited way wrt bowling, compared to how it’s affected Clinton.

    In the clip, in fact, Harold Ford (who actually did have issues with women when we went to law school together, but hopefully has improved) made much of Obama’s basketball skills, as you point out.

    So yes, you’re right, misogyny. But it was the “used against” Obama part that gave me pause. It barely made a dent. Elsewhere, with other men, it certainly does. But here, the real victims of “a man a woman because a woman is the worst thing on earth” are women, whereas the focus of the post appeared to be on the impact to male politicians.

  38. Awesome point. Misogyny hurts everyone! It hurts the men who can’t take time off to bond with their kids and the partners forced to carry the role and the kids who learn that this is the world. It hurts the tons of men would would have gone on to be stellar nurses, dancers, cooks but were told by their folks that these are professions for women. It hurts all relationships and opportunities for both sides.

    And here’s the saddest part. It’s a simple mess to clean if everyone who believed this was wrong simply stopped perpetuating it. That’s it. It would take time but there’s enough of us that feel that this way of life just flat out sucks for women and men. But when we tell our daughters to be good girls and behave (be quiet!) and tell our sons to be tough, don’t cry. And we don’t explain how the magazines are wrong, Grandma and Grandpa are mistaken, you’re equally as important and capable of anything!! .. well then, we’re just as much to blame as those assholes on TV. At least we have some sense.

  39. Having a penis and being accused of being dainty is not one of these issues, it’s one of the comparatively MUCH fewer ways that gender is held against men.

    Queer theory and feminist theory are closely linked. By calling Obama “dainty,” Scarborough is saying Obama is effeminate (i.e., gay). Scarborough’s rant was a twofer. Not only is he saying Obama is gay, he’s saying he’s a girl–and when someone says “you bowl like a girl,” they’re not being complementary. Scarborough is deriding both gays and women. And this is why it’s important that zuzu points this out. I commmend zuzu.

  40. So yes, you’re right, misogyny. But it was the “used against” Obama part that gave me pause. It barely made a dent.

    Oh, it’s still early. I’m sure this line of thinking will gain steam during the hot summer months, when pundits are trapped inside with the air conditioning set to 50. (Did you know that real men need rooms to be cold? Heating is for pussies! Worrying about energy consumption is also for pussies.) I think this is just an early sign of what’s to come.

  41. But the framing here, not the argument, bothered me. Here you make a brilliant post yesterday about misogyny affecting Clinton. There are some comments critiquing the post as being too narrow. Then there is a post today about misogyny affecting Obama, but in a very limited way wrt bowling, compared to how it’s affected Clinton.

    Well, mostly it just came up via the bowling. It seemed to obvious a point *not* to make.

    Even if you don’t think it made much of a dent now (and given that Tweety was talking about it as well, I wonder about that), it’s a signal that the usual narratives about the manliness of Democrats are being dusted off, no matter how much the MSM digs Obama.

  42. I think Joe’s rant was deplorable, even though I’ve actually liked him better recently. It just seemed like misogyny lite compared to the vile stuff that’s gone on wrt HRC. Harold Ford’s right, the bowling thing humanized BHO, and while Joe was misogynist and obnoxious, the result was a stupid statement that isn’t really going to hurt a good looking former college basketball player.

    The people it hurts are women, as we are the ones who are used as an insult, and also gay men as Felicia says. You are right that there are harbingers of democrat=wimp crap going on, as well. None of this excuses it, but it’s doesn’t compare with what HRC’s dealing with and the proximity of the posts concerned me. I will admit my possible bias as a bigtime HRC supporter.

  43. Dogs piss on hunks of plastic, regardless of shape. Just saying. I think that makes dogs more manly than Joe himself. LOL!

  44. Disgusting. This criticism is also ironic to me as bowling was regarded by childhood classmates as an odd game devoid of any physical competitiveness compared to the more favored basketball and baseball. If we saw this on the news back then….our immediate reaction would be “So?!!”

    Out of curiosity, what did you think of Clinton’s April Fool’s news conference challenging Obama to a bowling contest to settle the Pennsylvania primary?

  45. media reform now please.

    We’re trying!! I graduate with my journalism degree in May and then I promise to try to change the world!

    Or at least the media. :\

    Don’t worry, in 10-15 years all the women getting their j-degrees right now will be out in the workplace and the men will be outnumbered. Don’t lose hope!!

    And in response to the bowling issue…:

    “… we live in a country in which a person cannot get elected president if he openly doubts the existence of heaven and hell. This is truly remarkable, given that there is no other body of ‘knowledge’ that we require our political leaders to mater. Even a hairstylist must pass a licensing exam before plying his trade in the United States, and yet those given the power to make war and national policy — those whose decisions will inevitably affect human life for generations — are not expected to know anything in particular before setting to work. They do not have to be political scientists, economists, or even lawyers; they need not have studied international relations, military history, resource management, civil engineering, or any other field of knowledge that might be brought to bear in the governance of a modern superpower; they need only be expert fund-raisers, comport themselves well on television, and be indulgent of certain myths.”
    (Sam Harris – The End of Faith)

    Apparently he was wrong. Our president has to know how to bowl.

  46. Out of curiosity, what did you think of Clinton’s April Fool’s news conference challenging Obama to a bowling contest to settle the Pennsylvania primary?

    I loved it!

  47. Joe Scar absolutely may not lick my ass

    😆 Thomas, you rock. srsly.

    That said, my only point upthread was that I don’t much care if this does “hurt” Obama, what he sowed with his silence on misogyny until now, he reaps with it being now directed at him.

    It’s not okay. Joe’s a stupid pig.

    But, dare we hope that Obama actually speaks out against misogyny if this does actually affect him?

    Granted, it would still be self serving, but at least he will have mentioned it.

  48. I absolutely agree that our main goal is to dismantle patriarchy, which hurts both men and women. My beef was with this insult against Obama being described as misogyny-hurting-men. It’s a semantic nitpick. Misogyny, by definition, is woman-hatred. Maybe a better way to put it would have been anxious-masculinity-hurting-men or something like that.

  49. Also, racist! They go on talking about good Obama is/must be at basketball.

    FINEMAN: —which he’s very, very good at, by the way, and which translates racially, too, especially during the NCAA basketball tournament. Don’t do something you’ve never tried before in front of a national television audience, OK?

    MATTHEWS: You know, Michelle—and this gets very ethnic, but the fact that he’s good at basketball doesn’t surprise anybody, but the fact that he’s that terrible at bowling does make you wonder—

  50. Donna Darko — I agree, and that’s an elegant way of stating my concern above. The hits that BHO may or may not be taking because of his substandard bowling and related masculinity/patriarchy societal hangups are much more minimal than those HRC is taking constantly due to actual misogyny.

  51. But, dare we hope that Obama actually speaks out against misogyny if this does actually affect him?

    Betty, I have yet to see Obama speak out against misogyny. I suppose he is okay with it being directed at his opponent, Clinton. The fact that he does not speak out against it makes me doubt his statement that he would be better on women’s issues than Clinton.

  52. Drydock @ 38 agreed-

    They (the bobbleheads) don’t believe in this shit. Do you think Joe or Chris Matthews bowl? This is just a great way to slam the Democrat by pimping to the blue collar crowd that Obama isn’t one of them again. Just same old bs by cartoon big media commentators. “And hey, we can throw in a comment that reminds them he’s black because he’s good at basketball!”

    Joe Scarborough : I want a real man for President. You know a guy who can kill young girls he’s knocked up.

  53. Now, I’m wondering what that basketball reference will lead to. Didn’t we already have the Obama-basketball association as a marker of preverbal, inner-city African-American anger? I remember something from last year … dimly …

  54. Now, I’m wondering what that basketball reference will lead to. Didn’t we already have the Obama-basketball association as a marker of preverbal, inner-city African-American anger?

    If he becomes the nominee, he will have to avoid the expected hunting photo-op, because of the gun.

  55. I think that one of the few good things to come of all this BS stereotyping, then, would be the avoidance of that stupid hunting photo op.

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