I don’t support stringing criminals up by their balls and publicly berating them… March 4, 2008 Jill But if I did, these guys may be candidates #1 and 2. They drugged and gang-raped a woman in front of her two children — and then put the video on YouTube. Sexual violence trigger warnings abound.
You know, I realize that this question is tangential to the main issue of the brutality of this attack, but what the fuck is going on with people displaying unvarnished cruelty for all to see? We’ve got rapes, Marines apparently throwing puppies off of cliffs and goodness knows what else. I just don’t get it.
I totally agree, Linnaeus. I mean, I can’t understand the drive to rape to begin with. How anyone could think they have the right to violate someone else’s body is beyond me (but I’m a female rape survivor so maybe I will never get it). But then post the fracking video?! What kind of sick freak do you have to be to post a rape video like it’s some kind of home movie of your trip to Hawaii?! WTF?!! I hope those two assholes burn in hell. I am a huge You Tube fan, but reading about the rape video and the puppy killers makes me want to stop watching altogether. *Sighs* The world is so fucked up.
Well Linnaeus, when you take away the idea that there is an absolute moral code you can’t expect good things to happen. People watch tabloid tv and utube, porn and movies that glorify that attitude. No doubt that these “teens” could be treated like adolescents, probably slapped on the wrist and the record expunged when they are adults.
Jill, ball stringing is too merciful. And what to do with the non-ball having figures that set it up?
Jill Why not make an exception for these? And Ren I’m sure you could find some relativly equivelant part.
Really don’t want to click on the link, what with the trigger warnings and all, so would anybody mind telling me if/how YouTube reacted to it? Like, taking it down, or handing IP addresses to the police, or anything?
The article doesn’t say what YouTube did. I would hope that YouTube took it down as soon as they realized what they had on their site.
This article in The Times has a little more detail: A video of the episode was later placed on YouTube, but the clip was quickly taken down after a local reporter complained about its graphic nature. It is understood to have been seen 600 times. Furthermore, according to the article, about ten hours’ worth of content is uploaded every minute to YouTube’s site; because of this volume, YouTube relies mainly on viewer flagging to let its reviewers know about potentially objectionable/criminal content. YouTube says that it cooperates with law enforcement when material relevant an investigation is posted on its site, so I would think that would include giving the police IP addresses and such.
If the rapists actually believed that they would get in trouble, there’s no way they would post evidence of their crime on the Internet, where data never dies. That shows how rape and sexual assault are NOT treated as crimes. Like going 10 mph over the speed limit…technically illegal, but rarely prosecuted. Stuff like this makes me want to give up and hide in a cave. When are we going to get our 24 hour truce?
Gnoc, I just want to stop. I don’t think it is so much YouTube being the problem as the people who commited the crime. Historically YouTube has been pretty good about removing inappropriate content quickly. Like the Times article says, YouTube is not designed for them to be able to catch this BS before it is posted. Still, it just makes me depressed that something that brings me pleasure is used for such evil purposes. So, no I wouldn’t stop unless YouTube acts innappropriately in response to this.
OK, YouTube’s reaction sounds reasonable. I’ve had experience with their inability to keep up with content enough to monitor it in other contexts and didn’t expect that they have actual humans watching and approving every video posted. Just glad they aren’t imitating AutoAdmit.
this literally made me cry. for the woman, for her kids… and for the dumb fuckers who, somehow, have learned the lesson that they are not human, and therefor it is okay to do whatever they want to those who are human. and, like a dog who has rabies, people who have contracted this disease really do need to be shot. not tortured. not “reducated”. just shot so they can’t do it again.
but what the fuck is going on with people displaying unvarnished cruelty for all to see? It’s called porn. Cruelty is sexy. If you don’t like it you’re a prude.
I’m glad they pulled this quickly, but I don’t even want to know how few of those 600 viewers reported the video. I think YouTube has done a lot more good than bad, overall. And maybe something will come out of this, making it easier to prosecute the rapists. I won’t hold my breath, though.
This is why I am, at the very least intellectually, for the death penalty. There are simply people who do not deserve life. Like them. This is just… UGH. Really.
when you take away the idea that there is an absolute moral code you can’t expect good things to happen. By any chance does this “absolute moral code” require a (conveniently male) diety? ___ It’s called porn. Cruelty is sexy. If you don’t like it you’re a prude. And you hate sex. And women. And men. And you’re thought police. And facist.
Honestly, I’ve never seen anything worth-while on YouTube. Largely a bunch of frat-boy sickos acting foolish, basement dwelling mommas boys singing falsetto and exploited drunk girlfriends wiggling parts for their fifteen minutes. Fuck YouTube. As long as we keep feeding into the idea that fame and attention can be easily achieved through stupidity, this shit will keep happening, as clearly this incident wasn’t only a horrible rape but filmed with the intent of showing off. Just as we have to stop throwing our money into companies that don’t give a shit, we have to stop giving our time to mindless shit that exploits people. YouTube and Celeb Mags and all that shit has got to stop.
I don’t support stringing criminals up by their balls and publicly berating them… I am fast reconsidering this position.
but I don’t even want to know how few of those 600 viewers reported the video. I was thinking the same thing. How many of those 600 were searching for vids of rape?
nothere: I don’t think that’s true. Not all porn is cruel. And not all fantasy “cruelty” leads to this behavior. Some people like rough sex, and therefore rough porn, but that doesn’t mean they are going to, or want to, rape people. I, for instance, like rough sex AND rough porn, though I need the element that BOTH parties are enjoying the roughness, if that makes sense. Rape doesn’t factor into it, and I do think there is a huge difference between “rape porn” and S&M and the like. And I don’t think this kind of violence is any more prevalent than it was in days gone by; it’s certainly talked about more, and technology makes it easier for some, maybe, but that doesn’t mean it’s more common, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame porn.
Betty: It would depend on the keywords the uploaders used. They could have used “kittens, flowers, rainbows” or “rape, violence” — you can’t really know. Also, videos come up randomly on YouTube. I bet a lot of those people saw it randomly. And I wonder how many thought it was real, or just a staged video? Some might not think a real video like that would have ended up on such a site. If I had run across it on accident I would have first thought, “Is this fake? This can’t be real!” I would have reported it for being offensive, but I’m not sure I would have initially thought it was real — but then again, it boggles my mind that anyone can do something like this.
“How many of those 600 were searching for vids of rape?” It depends, as MC pointed out above, on how they keyworded the upload. It’s fairly–surprisingly, even–popular amongst a certain set to tag something like a kitten falling asleep as porn in order to dilute searches for wank-material. A number of ejerks will do the opposite, deliberately tagging grossly offensive content with inoffensive descriptors to expose the unwitting to it.
It’s fairly–surprisingly, even–popular amongst a certain set to tag something like a kitten falling asleep as porn in order to dilute searches for wank-material. A number of ejerks will do the opposite, deliberately tagging grossly offensive content with inoffensive descriptors to expose the unwitting to it. That is interesting. I was not aware of this.
You guys know the sun is a tabloid right? A few weeks ago they had an article about a ghost along with fake ghost footage.
This story has brought me to tears. How could anyone be so cruel in the first place, and especially all night in front of her little children while they cry for their mother? It just breaks my heart
well hell, i guess i’m either a prude or painfully naive, because all i’ve ever used youtube for is looking up my favorite 80’s rock videos. saying youtube is to blame is kind of like saying wikipedia is evil, or like saying the internet in general is evil. it’s just the fact that we live in a gynocidal patriarchy, it poisons everything. the pervasive hatred of women in our culture makes even children’s cartoons pretty disturbing. if there was no youtube, i wouldn’t be able to see videos by the gossip or heart. as for the death penalty for evil people – i share people’s rage and disgust, and if those two guys were standing here in front of me i might feel an urge to do them grievous bodily harm, but i continue to be uncomfortable with granting the state the power over life and death. because that’s worked out so well in the past. i think that these two developmentally arrested individuals should be required to work as emergency room and crime scene janitors for the rest of their lives. forced to wallow in the medical waste of other people’s suffering – now, that might offer some sort of poetic justice.
Unfortunately, you can’t even assume these guys will be punished. There was a notorious case in Illinois about a year ago where a bunch of punks taped themselves gang-raping a 16-year-old girl after she passed out drunk—and they were acquitted. This after one of them had fled to Serbia, for heaven’s sake.
Yes its sick. And demonstrates that rape is about power and not always about fulfilling a sexual need. Hence the involvement of the 2 girls.
Why did broadcast their cruelty? A very good question Linnaeus. I’ve thought about it for a while and here’s what I’ve come up with: They committed this crime so that they would feel powerful and significant — I would readily wager that they are marginal and powerless otherwise. They publicized it to get peer approval and to broadcast their relevance. When you cut down to the black beating heart of it, I don’t think the core motives for any sexual assault are that complex. It is about power, control, and status. The budding young sociopaths of this incident conformed pretty closely to the script.
Remember the OC rape case? Dunbar Village? The case in Illinois? I’m not surprised by this. Sickened and angry, yes. Surprised, no. And tabloid or not, “person,” this shit has happened before, so you’ll have to excuse us for thinking the story is, well, true.
Medicine Man: I’ve thought about it for a while and here’s what I’ve come up with: They committed this crime so that they would feel powerful and significant — I would readily wager that they are marginal and powerless otherwise. They publicized it to get peer approval and to broadcast their relevance. That’s as good as explanation as any and is certainly congruent with the psychological aspects (at least as I’ve been told) of a crime like rape. I suppose I understand this in an intellectual sense, but this impulse is emotionally alien to me. person: ou guys know the sun is a tabloid right? A few weeks ago they had an article about a ghost along with fake ghost footage. The fact that the Sun is a tabloid doesn’t, in of itself, prove that the story is false. On top of that, the Times (definitely not a tabloid) covered the same story.
I suppose I understand this in an intellectual sense, but this impulse is emotionally alien to me. Right there with you. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know that when I see behavior beyond the pale I try to find some recognizable rationale or reason to extend the benefit of the doubt; none of these things being possible in this instance. I could speculate about the state of mind required to commit crimes like this, but I think it is only necessary to understand that it is not a temperament recognizable to any healthy person. Mostly I try to stay emotionally detached while reading things like this, lest I end up mental myself.
This is beyond disgusting, and one of the main reasons that it is is YouTube. Now YouTube on the whole is a pretty good site. I enjoy watching video game trailers or music videos. What’s disgusting is 600 people saw this video, and only ONE PERSON flagged it. That meant 599 people watched this video and didn’t think “Oh, this is off.” Now, I’m sure there’s a few people who clicked away in disgust, or thought it was a hoax, but they still didn’t flag it. They just went on with their day and didn’t look twice. But how many people either watched it and laughed, watched it and got aroused, or watched it and didn’t even register that anything was wrong with it? Then when YouTube was petitioned to take it down, they did so reluctantly. Why? They wanted to make sure that users had as many opportunities to post whatever they liked on their site without fear of reprimand. So this says two things to me: 1) Your average viewer of YouTube is either apathetic or delights in the perverse material they stumble across and 2) YouTube isn’t all that bothered by 1) The fact that this rape video made it on YouTube begins to make me worry about all the ‘hot teen stripteases’ you can find on YouTube and just how many of them are performed and then put on consentingly
Nick Kiddle, that’s exactly what I’m saying. The sun is a tabloid and it’s their job to invent stories. If anybody shows me the same story from another source it will be much more believable.
“What’s disgusting is 600 people saw this video, and only ONE PERSON flagged it. That meant 599 people watched this video and didn’t think “Oh, this is off.”” There’s likely a fair number of those 599 who got it randomly–or, if they tagged it with something innocuous, inadvertently–saw that it was porn, and turned it off without realizing the full extent of what it was. The view number doesn’t indicate how many people watched all of it, just how many accessed it. 600 views and one complaint doesn’t necessarily translate into 99.8% of the YouTube-viewing populace being completely okay with rape, violent/rape-porn, or sexually explicit content involving minors. “The fact that this rape video made it on YouTube begins to make me worry about all the ‘hot teen stripteases’ you can find on YouTube and just how many of them are performed and then put on consentingly” Pretty much any piece of amateur pornography obtained from a p2p service or from a site where the content is user-generated raises that question. The rape video making it onto and remaining on YouTube doesn’t really have much to do with this. It was an issue before, and even if we had a sure way to keep that from happening again, it would still be an issue. Professional US-based porn has its problems, of course, but you can be relatively sure that, in modern productions, at the very least the participants are adults who know they’re being recorded and are aware that it will be distributed. With amateur porn of unknown origin, well…you can’t. Photos and videos get stolen and uploaded by scumbag acquaintances or service techs. They occasionally get uploaded accidentally. They get uploaded by psycho exes. They might have been coerced when that psycho ex was still an abusive partner. They might have been made without the knowledge of the subject(s). They might involve minors. You can sometimes tell, but that requires viewing and by extension participating in it. It’s been a worry for a while.
So… who wants to bet the lesson learned is: “Don’t post rape videos on youtube,” rather than “Don’t rape people” ?
There is some absolutely horrendous victim blaming on that Times thread. I actually find the comments at the Sun less disturbing. This is the worst of the victim blaming comments. What was a mother of 2 doing drinking champagne with strangers for? That is very naive. Did she think they were just going to offer her some champagne and then leave – like the ‘Champagne Fairy’ or something. People who are this naive deserve to have their video on Youtube! I hope it’s ok to suggest here that any woman thinking of employing, befriending, or dating Andrew Nyazai of Godalming, who made the above comment, should think again. Someone who thinks that if you have champagne with a stranger you deserve to be gang raped and have it broadcast to the world, is not someone you want to have in your life. There are also a bunch of eejits talking about the evils of serving champagne to minors, as if this doesn’t happen at weddings and other family events all over the country every day. I click on those threads because i keep thinking “well surely THIS case is so clear cut that no one will try to blame the victim!” I continually underestimate the extent to which misogyny will grasp at any available straw. Has there been much psychological research on the victim blaming reflex? I suspect it is a side effect of authoritarian personalities, but other groups of people do it too. I’d like to know how you go about mitigating this irrationality in people.