In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Someone’s got a wee problem with women

zuzu

Shorter Joel Stein: None of those slutty women at the Halloween party would go home with me.

It always amuses me when people grouse about how Halloween is a wholesome kids’ holiday and the adults are ruining it, ruining it!. Something tells me the ancient Celts would disagree.

Via.

50 thoughts on Someone’s got a wee problem with women

  1. Why is it I can see this twit going to every “Slutoween” (as he puts it) party he can get into for the sake of “research”??

    And has he ever considered that he’s NOT being invited to New Year’s Eve parties because no one wants to be the one to kiss him at midnight? Boo-hoo, Joel.

  2. Meanwhile, I was invited to zero New Year’s Eve parties last year.

    Duh. It’s because you’re a douche, Joel Stein.

  3. Someone should send Joel Stein a big bag of Halloween candy.

    Do you think he’s so down on fun b/c he was denied it as a child?

    Meanwhile, *I* went as Medusa last night. A sexy, feminist Medusa, complete with snakes in my hair.

  4. thank-you thank-you THANK-YOU for posting that link. everytime i comment about how it isn’t just some kid’s holiday it gets completely ignored. all the feminist sites post about discrimination, sexism, racism, etc, but when people get all stupid about religion noone bats an eye.
    my thoughts on halloween here.

    also…stein is a total douche.

    my kid and i are going as characters from stardust.

  5. This actually reminded me of a similarly spirited Time Magazine essay I read years ago where the author concluded that Halloween costumes and paraphernalia like Jack O’Lanterns, like all “childish” things, should be given up by those who have reached adulthood.

    Echo other comments about Joel Stein’s meriting being uninvited to New Years Eve…or any other parties. Why is it that being an adult necessitates giving up harmless enjoyable activities and objects deemed “childish” to conform to society’s diktats?

  6. I think he’s down because he was invited to zero New Year’s partiess. Hint, Joel: that’s not because there aren’t any New Year’s parties.

  7. i’m sorry…
    the first time i ran across this idiocy by a poser who cant get it laid, it DID piss me off…

    but, zuzu, something about the way you wrote this cracked me up! a pagan crack-pot, cracking up up at you description of a man who i can only assume does crack…

    okay, sorry, im done now. its almost 4am and im loopy, please forgive me

  9. One comment: There is a dearth of women’s ready-made Halloween costumes that DON’T involve flaunting women’s breasts/legs and reducing women to sexual objects.

    That said, as I e-mailed this idiot: With whom are all these Joel-Stein-decreed “sluts” having sex?

    Why, with “studs,” of course.

    (Or perhaps with other “sluts,” although that concept would NEVER enter this man’s brain except in the context of him getting to watch)

  10. Well, based on Stein’s recent writing it does seem that he is surrounded by shallowness and stupidity (Paris Hilton, covering the Emmys and trying to figure out if Minnie Driver’s pregnant) and getting bitter and fed up with it all. Get out while you can, Joel! Get out!

  11. Slightly longer Joel Stein: None of those slutty women at the Halloween party would go home with me and no one can stand the thought of kissing me at New Year’s.

  12. It’s like he just discovered that adults like to have Halloween parties. Where’s he been for the last 20 years?

  13. Maybe he’s been watching the slow slide of the culture.

    Enforced sexual broadcast/display is no more liberating than enforced repression/prudery. I can remember when a woman who wanted to have some fun at Halloween could dress up and party without feeling pressured to show the world her cleavage or her ass.

    Stein’s just dribbling onto the page, and who cares, but I would think that feminists would see an issue in what he’s alluding to. Our culture is forcing women to be publicly sexual whether they want to be or not, or telling them to stay home.

  14. slightly more accurate and semi-short joel stein: i really, really, really want to dress up as a slut for halloween, but all my friends will think i’m gay, or worse, a transsexual.

  15. Echo other comments about Joel Stein’s meriting being uninvited to New Years Eve…or any other parties. Why is it that being an adult necessitates giving up harmless enjoyable activities and objects deemed “childish” to conform to society’s diktats?

    Bingo. This is precisely why admonitions for people to “grow up” sometimes rub me the wrong way. Yes, it’s perfectly acceptable to expect a certain level of maturity when one reaches adulthood. But it seems to me that our culture also has problems with creating a healthy image of adulthood that allows for fun things that aren’t confined to a narrow range of activities. I’ve said this before: if being an adult means staying at home every Friday night watching “Everybody Loves Raymond” reruns (with maybe a few “dignified” social gatherings a year), well, I don’t want any part of that.

    That said, I’ve read and re-read Stein’s column, and I’m not yet convinced that he’s making a statement on women per se. He seems to be trying to generalize the phenomenon he’s identified and he pokes fun at expectations of men in his prescription for a “Slut Day”. The problem, perhaps, is that he hasn’t noticed or disregards the fact that the word “slut” is a loaded term, and therefore that obscures his argument.

    I think he was trying to say something along the lines of what Quiet Truths said here:

    Enforced sexual broadcast/display is no more liberating than enforced repression/prudery. I can remember when a woman who wanted to have some fun at Halloween could dress up and party without feeling pressured to show the world her cleavage or her ass.

    Stein’s just dribbling onto the page, and who cares, but I would think that feminists would see an issue in what he’s alluding to. Our culture is forcing women to be publicly sexual whether they want to be or not, or telling them to stay home.

    Feminists do discuss this issue quite a bit, and it’s been the focal point of many a blog war. And that’s precisely the rub: how do we avoid the pressures to present oneself (especially a woman) as always sexualized while at the same time allowing for some acknowledgement in the public sphere of human sexuality?

  17. If he’s doing tongue-in-cheek, or satire, he’s failing. He might be doing a Jonah Goldberg impression, for all I know.

    But what gets me is that he’s writing from LA, and his previous gig was at Time Out New York, where he was pretty much the insufferable hipster hiding his contempt for women behind a mask of irony. In both LA and New York, Halloween is first and foremost the gay Mardi Gras; the relative sluttitude of women’s costumes is pretty far down the list of concerns of it being no-longer-a-kids’-holiday (and HA! on that one anyway).

    Yes, the fact that there’s some kind of enforced sluttiness with ready-made costumes is not good, but who said you have to use ready-made costumes? Moreover, yes, it is bad that women feel entitled to be sexually free only when they’re given free reign to be someone else. But is focusing on slutty women really the way to address that?

  18. Adults celebrating a slightly-less-commercialized (compared to Christmas) holiday that is intended purely to be fun = not ok. But criticizing other people’s celebrations of this holiday while being a border-line-obsessive sexist jerk = perfectly fine apparently..? Maybe he should just stay home this Halloween cause he’d certainly piss me off at my party.

  19. But what gets me is that he’s writing from LA, and his previous gig was at Time Out New York, where he was pretty much the insufferable hipster hiding his contempt for women behind a mask of irony.

    Ah, I didn’t realize there was a history here.

  20. Must have been his first adult Halloween party he was ever invited to. LOL! Kids probably kicked him out of theirs for being too old.

    Sexy adult Halloween costumes have been around for all the decades I’ve been alive. It is not a new phenomenon.

    Being a whiny asshole is not a good costume. LOL!

  22. Bingo. This is precisely why admonitions for people to “grow up” sometimes rub me the wrong way. Yes, it’s perfectly acceptable to expect a certain level of maturity when one reaches adulthood. But it seems to me that our culture also has problems with creating a healthy image of adulthood that allows for fun things that aren’t confined to a narrow range of activities. I’ve said this before: if being an adult means staying at home every Friday night watching “Everybody Loves Raymond” reruns (with maybe a few “dignified” social gatherings a year), well, I don’t want any part of that.

    Linnaeus,

    It can be a catch-22 situation. If someone loves something deemed “childish” like stuffed animals, playing video games, making model aircraft, dressing up for Halloween, etc…then the person is deemed by society to be immature and not acting appropriately. On the other hand, if one’s interests fall into intellectual pursuits such as discussing historical events, politics, philosophy, or anything deemed too “highbrow”, then that person’s a mature, but pedantic humorless bore. I’ve known too many people who have experienced this, including myself.

  23. The tarty costumes do seem to be omnipresent this year — if you want a pre-made costume, you’re going to have to search far and wide for something that isn’t cut to the navel or with a skirt at butt-level. Or both.

    Which is why I went to my local costume house (I love LA!) and rented the accoutrements to make myself into a tricoteuse circa the French Revolution. Now all I need is an apron and a severed head and I’m good to go.

  24. Mnemosyne: your costume sounds infinitely superior to the slutty Marie Antionette I ran into at a bar on Friday night.

    Several years ago, I went as the feminine mystique: fifties house dress, apron, pearls, little heels, a martini glass, and a bottle of Valium. I think that rates as my all time favorite. Adult parties with people who speak my language are a damn good time. I’m sorry Joel doesn’t see it that way.

  25. The tarty costumes do seem to be omnipresent this year — if you want a pre-made costume, you’re going to have to search far and wide for something that isn’t cut to the navel or with a skirt at butt-level. Or both.

    While looking for kids costumes the other day at K-Mart, it seemed to me that most costumes intended for young girls (and I mean girls in 1st and 2nd grade even) were pretty slutty. One whole rack was nothing but costumes showing their bellies.

    It’s one thing to see Sexy Nurse at the Halloween happy hour, but if some parent dresses up their 7-year-old girl as Sexy Nurse, I’m going to scream.

  26. It always amuses me when people grouse about how Halloween is a wholesome kids’ holiday

    Joel needs to read up on how Halloween is not even considered a wholesome kids event anymore. At least not by everyone. At the daycares/public schools that my kids have attended, they are asked to refrain from wearing costumes or exchanging candy for Halloween because its pagan origins offend some religious beliefs. Add that to worries about tainted candy, pedophiles, and the usual walking-in-traffic-in-the-dark, and Halloween is far from uncontroversial among the kid-set.

    Trick or treating still persists and probably always will (free candy trumps a lot of things), but with more adults now accompanying the kids than ever before, trick or treating has actually become sort of a cross-generational thing. In my neighborhood, many people set up tables for the adults–appetizers and hot buttered rum and other un-kid-like treats 🙂

  27. While looking for kids costumes the other day at K-Mart, it seemed to me that most costumes intended for young girls (and I mean girls in 1st and 2nd grade even) were pretty slutty. One whole rack was nothing but costumes showing their bellies.

    Ready-made costumes have certainly improved since the 70s, when they consisted of a plastic mask and a plastic printed poncho. And when I was very upset that Mom wouldn’t let us wear them and insisted on making homemade costumes.

    Hey, remember when we went to some Girl Scout Halloween event with Mom as the Marx Brothers? She was Groucho, you were Harpo, and I was Chico. Though the careful pincurls in my hair came out after we bobbed for apples. There was a girl there dressed as a Jawa, with little lights for eyes, which was very cool (and this may very well have been 1977 or 1978).

    At the daycares/public schools that my kids have attended, they are asked to refrain from wearing costumes or exchanging candy for Halloween because its pagan origins offend some religious beliefs.

    Just in Virginia, or in Hawaii, too? Cripes. The Halloween parade in grade school was one of the best things EVAH. And not just because we got to leave school grounds.

  28. While looking for kids costumes the other day at K-Mart, it seemed to me that most costumes intended for young girls (and I mean girls in 1st and 2nd grade even) were pretty slutty. One whole rack was nothing but costumes showing their bellies.

    Really? One of the constants in my hometown was that it would always snow on Halloween, so your costume had to fit over your winter jacket/snowsuit. Obviously, belly-showing doesn’t work in that weather.

  29. At the daycares/public schools that my kids have attended, they are asked to refrain from wearing costumes or exchanging candy for Halloween because its pagan origins offend some religious beliefs

    funny how noone is ever worried about offending the religious beliefs of pagans. or don’t they ever matter?

    Just in Virginia, or in Hawaii, too?

    here in the aloha state, we have had tons of fun this halloween…in fact, my daughter’s whole school attended a great halloween festival.

    some people are completely offensive simply by being offended. where is the religious tolerance?

    and what has happened to good ol fun for all ages…w/o the harsh judgement…

  30. Just in Virginia, or in Hawaii, too? Cripes. The Halloween parade in grade school was one of the best things EVAH. And not just because we got to leave school grounds.

    Hawaii and Virginia. I think a lot of places are turning in that direction. It seems we’ve boiled everything down to “Fall Festival”, “Holiday Festival”, and “Spring Festival”. Sort of sterile if you ask me.

    I first encountered the anti-Halloween sentiment when my now-almost-11-year-old son was in daycare–it wasn’t a facility rule per se, but there was one teacher that had let it be known that she was offended by the holiday and so the whole thing was canceled. I think it was pretty clear that she was going to make a fuss if any babies came in dressed as pumpkins (how horrifying) and so the administration acquiesced. I figured that would be that, but it has stuck. In the four different elementary schools my kids have been at, they’ve had this rule. I griped about it one day, and found that a lot of parents are actually in agreement with this new way of doing things.

    funny how noone is ever worried about offending the religious beliefs of pagans. or don’t they ever matter?

    I think pagans are the odd man out with religious tolerance thing. They’ll talk in the 3rd person about everything from Hanukkah to Easter to Kwanzaa, but I doubt Samhain will ever be discussed in a public school–because, well, you know its all about devil-worshiping and all that. Just like Harry Potter. Ugh.

    One of the constants in my hometown was that it would always snow on Halloween, so your costume had to fit over your winter jacket/snowsuit.

    Yeah, that’s exactly what I thought as I looked at these things. Even here in southeast VA it will be in the 60’s this week. Slutty Nurse will have to wear her jacket.

    Hey, remember when we went to some Girl Scout Halloween event with Mom as the Marx Brothers? She was Groucho, you were Harpo, and I was Chico

    Hee hee. I had forgotten about that. I remember the Halloween that I was a witch–wore Mom’s graduation robe and she painted my face green, which caused me to break out in a horrible rash during the school day and she wouldn’t come pick me up because, well, you know, if you weren’t bleeding to death or dying of a fever you were fit to go to school 😉

  31. I seriously don’t know where all of these “slutty” costumes people keep talking about are being sold. I have yet to see a Halloween costume with an ass length skirt that has a neckline cut down to the navel. I see “Sexy [Insert Anything Here]” costumes a lot, but most of them are merely form-fitting, knee length dresses.

    Personally, I show my cleavage on a regular basis. I wear ‘short’ skirts a lot as well. My Halloween costume was sparkly, black, witchy gown with puffy princess sleeves that I paired with a set of silver fairy wings. Yes, it showed my boobs. God forbid I not go out wearing a turtle neck so as not to offend.

    I think everyone needs to lay off. Men need to stop picking on women’s sexuality and bodies and so do other women.

  32. I think everyone needs to lay off. Men need to stop picking on women’s sexuality and bodies and so do other women.

    I don’t think women are picking on other women for dressing up as a naughty nurse or some variation on the theme. The problem is that “sexy” and “slut” costumes seem as of late to be set as the standard.

    No one is trying to throw a poncho over your cleavage, so just take a deep breath and relax.

  33. My Halloween party had a kick-ass Medusa, and Artemis, a hobo, an apocalyptic sorcerer type, an anime mouse in duct tape (probably the closest that came to “sexy X” and considering she made it herself and was all bouncy and cute you can argue it was just an accurate anime-style), a clean room hazmat suit gone wrong, a zombie killer, and a pack of Raelians…

    Lots of fun costumes, few that would have pissed of Stein.

    Mnemosyne… “The Feminine Mystique” is an *awesome* costume idea.

  34. The other problem, as I see it, is that display of women’s sexuality is still called “slutty.” Why is that?

    And I’m happy for you if you want to show your cleavage and ass all day long; I’m just protesting the assumption that ALL women want to dress that way — for Halloween and at other times. It’s all well and good to say, “Then make your own costume,” but why are Halloween choices for women basically limited to “Show your cleavage and legs, or come up with something better on your own.”?

  35. I don’t think that adults have a place in Halloween.

    As for Mr. Stein’s comparison of Halloween to sluts, that crossed the line. He should issue an apology for the piece.

  36. Here is the reasons why I say that adults:

    1. Men want to degrade women and women want to degrade men; and
    2. Men will be looking for girls to prey on.

    Being an adult to me means going to the high school football games on Friday nights, not staying home watching anti-choicer Patricia Heaton splatter her face all over the screen on “Raymond”.

  37. I seriously don’t know where all of these “slutty” costumes people keep talking about are being sold.

    At Spirit Halloween stores here in California.

    Of the six women’s costumes pictured on that front page, either five of them are well above the knee or the models’ knees are located somewhere in their abdomen.

    Again, if someone wants to wear one of those costumes, great. The rest of us should have some options, though, don’t you think? I’m a little tired of the pre-made choices for adults running the gamut from Sexy Nurse to Sexy Hermione Granger.

    And I don’t mind if they market sexy costumes to teenagers, but 10 seems a little too young for this, don’t you think?

  38. Mnemosyne… “The Feminine Mystique” is an *awesome* costume idea.

    Thanks, but that was evil fizz’s idea, not mine. I’m the one who figured out how I could knit and be in costume at the same time. 😉

  39. No one is trying to throw a poncho over your cleavage, so just take a deep breath and relax.

    Ah, that’s where you’re wrong, my sweet. People harrass me on a daily basis for my clothing. Complete strangers I meet in the grocery store think it’s perfectly okay to tell me what I ought to be wearing in and men fine is totally appropriate to call me “slut” when I’m walking down the street. Perhaps nobody on these forums wants to throw a poncho on me, but people out in the world most definitely do. I’ll take a deep breath and relax about it when the people I encounter start minding their own business.

    The other problem, as I see it, is that display of women’s sexuality is still called “slutty.” Why is that?

    I completely agree. I hear people who call themselves feminists calling other women sluts sometimes and it makes me very sad.

    And I’m happy for you if you want to show your cleavage and ass all day long; I’m just protesting the assumption that ALL women want to dress that way — for Halloween and at other times. It’s all well and good to say, “Then make your own costume,” but why are Halloween choices for women basically limited to “Show your cleavage and legs, or come up with something better on your own.”?

    Again, I agree! I think there should definitely be more choices out there when it comes to pre-made costumes. It just bothers me the way people act like women are bad people or “slutty” for wearing sexy costumes. It also pisses me off the way people place all the blame on women for Halloween costumes being so sexualized lately….

    I don’t think that adults have a place in Halloween.

    Uh, why?

  41. 1. Men want to degrade women and women want to degrade men; and
    2. Men will be looking for girls to prey on.

    Two out of those three are true of all the rest of the days of the year too. I’m not sure what you mean by saying that “women want to degrade men” on Halloween–really? How so? I mean…take a look at the pre-made costumes for men. They don’t look that degrading to me. They usually involve quite a bit of body coverage, and often they even look warm enough.

    I love Halloween–it’s macabre; it’s the only modern masquerade holiday; unlike Christmas or Easter, I don’t have to have any atheist quirks of conscience around it. I don’t see why I should give up one of my three favorite holidays (the others are Valentine’s Day and 4th of Jully) just because some men act like assholes.

    Tinfoil Hattie, my concern with what you say is that I’m not convinced that costumes like “sexy nurse,” “sexy mental patient,” and “sexy ghostbuster” are displaying female sexuality. They seem far more like they’re displaying female objectification.

  42. Because it’s not possible for children to have their part of Halloween and let adults have their part?

    Not to mention that Halloween IS under attack by conservatives for being too pagan among other things (um, DUH you JUST noticed it’s originally ours?! I guess I should be thankful you noticed at all? o.O)

    Additionally, if he wants a “Slut day” or a “Celebrate and have sex” day, which is I think his real motivation, that already exists, it’s called Beltaine.

  43. EG, that is the problem. A few bad apples spoil things for everybody else. And I think that we should be doing more to weed out the bad apples and keep Halloween a good, safe holiday.

    A suggestion: I think that on the Saturday (if it comes on a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, the Saturday before October 31) or Friday (if October 31 falls on that day), all adult nightspots across America should have a costume-only policy.

    Halloween is higher up on my list than Christmas and New Years, but still way down on my list of favorite holidays. Thankfully, in Georgia and South Carolina, men cannot prey on little girls on Halloween because of “Operation Lights Out”. Don’t know about the other 48 states’ laws concerning molestors and Halloween. Yeah, and I wish that there were superpowers for us to play around with in the real world — such as the Fire Flower.

    Also, EG, you have a point about all three of the things that I mentioned happening at other times of the year.

    BTW, speaking of sex, did anybody know that October is Reproductive Health Month? That’s right.

  44. Jovan, I still don’t see your reasoning. I have never felt degraded on Halloween, nor have I ever wanted to degrade anyone one else. I’m just ask likely to be “preyed upon” when I’m out any other night of the year.

    Football games? I hate Football.

    I just got back from a Halloween party last Sunday morning. Everyone was in costume, everyone was having fun, people were dancing. It was just good, clean fun. Nobody was being degraded. Why should I give up my fun just because somewhere someone might feel degraded? That’s a problem with society as a whole, not adult Halloween parties.

  45. I think that on the Saturday (if it comes on a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, the Saturday before October 31) or Friday (if October 31 falls on that day), all adult nightspots across America should have a costume-only policy.

    Huh? So now I MUST wear a costume? I don’t get it–how does that make things more safe? And are nightspots the only way in which adults have fun? Not that I don’t love me a night out, but that’s not the only game in town.

  47. Pingback: Feministe » Happy Slut-o-Ween!
  48. Pingback: Pandagon :: Short skirts and death masks :: October :: 2007

  49. Holy fuck is Joel Stein insane? And does he not have editors at all, or did he just terrorize them into submission with his frothing madness? Seriously that column isn’t just anti-woman, it’s an anti-woman column written by a crazy person.

    George Will is more coherent, and George Will hasn’t been coherent in a decade and a half.

  50. Joel Stein was so funny when I was fourteen and reading TIME magazine obsessively. I thought his humor sparking, his wit incisive and may have had a little writer-crush on him as a result.

    It must be almost four years since I’ve read a column by him. Surely I’m not imagining that his standards have fallen. That piece is just complete rubbish, and, at twenty-one, I want to write a strongly worded letter to him for being so ridiculously offensive.

    Is he still married?

Comments are currently closed.