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Happy Islamo-Fascist Awareness Week!

My message to the organizers: Please do not use my movement to prop up your racist bullshit.

Islamo-fascist Awareness Week” (yeah, really) is rapidly approaching, and conservative bed-wetters everywhere have decided to target universities for being hotbeds of Islamo-fascist-loving liberals. They’ve also decided to make the plight of Muslim women their theme this year. Reading their website will guarantee a vigorous head/wall connection, and is not only predictably prejudiced and ugly, but is mind-bendingly stupid. For example, a link titled “Put Islamo-fascism into the college curriculum” is summed up with:

Six years after 9/11, not a single Middle Eastern Studies Department in the United States offers a course on Islamo-Fascism or Islam and Fascism, although the founders of the modern jihad Hassan al-Banna and Sayd Qutb were both admirers of Hitler as are the current rulers of Iran.

The awareness week is necessary because:

According to the academic left, anyone who links Islamic radicalism to the war on terror is an “Islamophobe.” According to the academic left, the Islamo-fascists hate us not because we are tolerant and free, but because we are “oppressors.”

Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week is a national effort to oppose these lies and to rally American students to defend their country.


The stupidity actually causes me physical pain.

Tonight I went out to dinner with a Greek friend, and we got around to discussing politics and the War on Terra. I mentioned this argument to her — that many conservatives are apparently under the impression that Muslims world-wide hate us because we are a free society, and that’s why they attacked us on Sept. 11th. I wish I had recorded the look on her face — it was a great mixture of confusion, revulsion, and disbelief. Her response (after “No… really? Really?”) was, “Then why aren’t they flying planes into the Netherlands?”

Islamo-Fascist Awareness Week sounds like a joke, and Ali is right that we should be laughing. But the people organizing these events have the ear of some of the highest people in government; hell, one of the scheduled speakers is former U.S. Senator Rick Santorum.

And they’re using “feminism” to prop up their cause. Because, you know, all Muslim women are totally oppressed and need white Western women who don’t think women deserve voting rights to come in and save them. As Ali points out,

Further, one has to wonder what someone like Ann Coulter will be able to accomplish while discussing feminism in the Muslim world when it appears she doesn’t find women intellectually capable of having the right to vote. While on the subject of Coulter I find it quite interesting that in the span of a year she has gone from calling Muslims “ragheads” to turning into a Mother Theresa for Muslim women.

No, Ann Coulter does not care about the rights of Muslim women. Neither do Rick Santorum or Daniel Pipes or any of the other half-wits organizing these events. If they did, they may have considered that the universities they so revile have been the very places where some Muslim women have been able to make huge gains:

Yet, the reality is that the American universities are some of the staunchest supporters of the rights of Muslim women. It was at a university where I met Riffat Hassan, the well-known anti-honor killing activist from the University of Louisville. It was at a university where I met Amina Wadud, the Quran scholar, who was the first woman to lead a mixed-congregation prayer in recent Muslim history and quite courageously challenged Muslim patriarchy. It was at a university where I met Abdullahi An-Naim, the Sudanese Islamic scholar whose message calls for the equality of men and women in and whose teacher was executed in 1983 for such ideas. It was a university where I met Rafia Zakaria, the feminist activist whose commentary on issues affecting Muslim women is published in Pakistan and India. It was at a university where I heard of Laleh Bakhtiar who has now published a feminist translation of the Quran (and we know how important translations of the Quran are in the fight against extremism). It was at a university where I encountered the work of Ziba Mir-Hosseini, the Iranian activist whose speciality is Muslim divorce law, with a focus on women’s rights.

It is these universities that the organizers of this initiative are calling “enablers and abettors” of terrorism.

In fact, the universities have been on the forefront of supporting many Muslim reform projects, and the area of Muslim women is not the only one they have supported.

It was at a university where Iranian dissenter and Nobel Prize Winner Shirin Ebadi went to make her speeches (where she extolled not attacking her country). It was at a university where Akbar Ganji, the Iranian dissenter, went to consult with leading left wing philosopher Richard Rorty. It was at a university where a Jewish Studies professor Deborah Lipstadt started to translate anti-holocaust-denial books into Arabic and Farsi. It was a university that gave shelter to Muslim scholars from South Africa whose homes were firebombed.

But I suppose that those universities aren’t telling Muslim women that their religion is evil and oppressive and freedom-hating, and so they are propping up Islamo-fascism. And of course, it’s worth pointing out that the same people who are now championing the cause of Muslim women are the first to seek to oppress women in the United States. In other words, feminism is good if we can use it as a tool for bigoted propaganda. Not so good if the uppity bitches actually get to thinking they’re all entitled to things like human rights.

Go read Ali’s whole article.


51 thoughts on Happy Islamo-Fascist Awareness Week!

  1. Are there courses explaining the link between Christianity and Naziism — most Nazis were raised as Christians, and most Germans were nominally Christian?

  2. Islamofascism does a couple of things:

    First, it dismisses concerns that the right in this country in is, in any way, fascistic. We can’t be fascists, we’re FIGHTING fascists.

    Secondly, “Fascism” has been reduced to mean “Badguys.” Everybody knows fascists are bad, right? If they didn’t hate reading so much, they’d probably be calling al-Qaeda IslamoDeathEaters.

    Third, it pretends to unite – surely fascism is something we can all fight, right? Aren’t you liberals at the front lines of antifascism!

    You can do all sorts of magic when you make up words.

  3. from that dumbass website:

    And we call upon the feminists of NAME OF campus to be brave enough to join them. We call upon women’s rights groups and Muslim groups — here on this campus — to end their silence about the oppression of women in Islam.

    When the US starting bombing Afghanistan, the feminist group on campus (which I started, thankyouverymuch) was the only group talking about the rights and well-being of women.

    Willful ignorance makes my brain hurt.

  4. Basically, if you don’t come out and voice your vigorous support for condemning, converting, or killing the whole lot of ’em, you’re supporting the worst of the worst minority and therefore luuuuve those islamofascists. This crazy dichotomy tires me to no end – and is likely silencing the voices of people interested in engaging in dialogue more likely to make these problems go away.

  5. @1:

    To be picky, any German Nazis of note that cared about faith issues tended to be conservative Catholics who saw Nazism as a way to reinforce their version of the faith, and people who typically espoused a form of paganism, though as how some people react with most religions, they tended to interpret their newfound faith to reflect their desires, rather than have a faith that demanded any amount of self-discipline or self-sacrifice.

    Most Germans went along for the ride because their economy was a shambles and they were tired of the political infighting, which often led to real fighting with real weapons.

    My two bits….

  6. The Conservatives are trying to appropriate terms like “fascist” to equate the current “War on Terror” with WWII, the last “good war” in American historical memory. Of course, their use of the term “fascist” falls flat for many reasons including the fact the regimes/groups involved are operating under disparate political systems that do not comply with the standard political definition unless one wants to stretch the meaning of the term into absolute meaninglessness.

    Unfortunately, as with many people from both sides of the political spectrum, the term “fascist” is frequently misused to connotate brutish tyrannical/bureaucratic behavior characteristic of a variety of political systems such as theocratic/nontheocratic monarchies, actual fascist regimes, authoritarian/totalitarian regimes of various types, etc. This behavior becomes so knee-jerk that even a lot of objectively well-educated people misuse the term without thinking deeply about its actual definition.

    Are such careless use of political terms indicative of the increasingly polarized and antagonistic political culture we are currently living in?

  7. Sorry if it’s inconvenient to point out, but Islam is not a race and critiquing it cannot be “racist”.

  8. Are there courses explaining the link between Christianity and Naziism — most Nazis were raised as Christians, and most Germans were nominally Christian?

    Speaking from my own experience, this was covered quite well in a topical German history course dealing with the rise of Nazism in Germany. One of the factors covered in the course was how the rise of European anti-semitism was strongly influenced in part by Christian blood-libel mixed with centuries of religious prejudice and hatred. European anti-semitism and the rise of Nazism in Germany were two examples the many low points in the history of Christianity.

  9. And of course, it’s worth pointing out that the same people who are now championing the cause of Muslim women are the first to seek to oppress women in the United States. In other words, feminism is good if we can use it as a tool for bigoted propaganda. Not so good if the uppity bitches actually get to thinking they’re all entitled to things like human rights.

    This is base tribalism — there’s a total disconnect between what they do in the US and what the “Islamofascists” do in Iran/enemy of the day. Since it’s Us vs. Them, it’s unconceivable to our upstanding culture warriors that they could share the same motives and impulses as Islamic fundamentalists. Although maybe the hardcore misogynists who associated themselves with this Hate Week, the kind who think that we’re losing the war (and all wars) because American society is feminized, believe that promoting feminism in Muslim societies will successfully emasculate them too, hyuk hyuk hyuk (I’ve encountered this sentiment before). Anything to stick it to the enemy.

    Also, David Horowitz, the promoter of the event, is a dishonest hack who probably doesn’t even care about the hypocrisy. This is just par for the course; he’s Mr. “our universities are hotbeds of pinko sedition,” after all, so the outrage and attempted guilt-tripping are no surprise. Still, he knows that disguising militarism as concern for women and democracy, and recruiting intellectuals for the cause can help tremendously in selling a war to Americans.

    “Then why aren’t they flying planes into the Netherlands?”

    The Dutch legalized pot — it’s the hippie-Islamic fundamentalist connection, storming campuses near you.

  10. This awareness couldn’t have happened at a better time.

    During these last few days of ramadan, when I get hungry, I will now be able stop empathizing with the world’s poor, and instead, be able to consider the fascist underpinnings of this month and islam in general.

    In fact, it’s quite possible Hitler fasted once or twice during his lifetime.

  11. This awareness couldn’t have happened at a better time.

    During these last few days of ramadan, when I get hungry, I will now be able stop empathizing with the world’s poor, and instead, be able to consider the fascist underpinnings of this month and islam in general.

    In fact, it’s quite possible Hitler fasted once or twice during his lifetime.

  12. Hey, I wonder if Theo Van Gogh shares your Greek friend’s amazement.

    And true they haven’t flown planes into the Netherlands but I wonder why you willfully ignore the attacks on Spain, England, Bali, Israel, Germany, Italy, Thailand, Kenya, Yemen, Kuwait, United States, Indonesia and Afghanistan. Why do you willfully ignore the thousands killed by Islamic terrorists in those countries.

    Doesn’t fit your idealistic and infantile world view now does it. Pull your head out of your ass and wake the FVCK up. We’ve been down this road once before (think Neville Chamberlain) and you spineless turds are at it again.

    How many must die? How many must be killed for their sexual orientation? How many women must be murdered in the name honor before you actually give a shit beyond your selfish little world?

    You make me literally want to puke.

  13. Regretfully, what we have here isn’t just a bunch of cynical anti-feminists appropriating the language of feminism to muffle resistance to killing more Muslims, although it’s mostly that. Some of the announced speakers at these events, whatever else they might be, are not not feminists. (An egregious example: at the University of Rhode Island there’ll be Donna Hughes, who as part of her feminist activities is a longtime apologist for the Mujahadeen-e-Khalq, a designated foreign terrorist organization that’s currently trying, with her assistance & that of the organizers of Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, to play the role vis-à-vis Iran that Ahmad Chalabi & the Iraqi National Congress played vis-à-vis Iraq: to start a war while they’re young enough to enjoy it.) Feminists as a group are among the least likely people on the planet to fall for this kind of cartoonery – certainly not the second time around -, but it’s prudent to remember that there are the odd exceptions. And as the point is mostly to provide inattentive non-feminists with an excuse to think that even feminists aren’t all so sure that more killing is a bad idea, the organizers may have reason to hope that a few zealots is all it takes to muddy the waters in advance of a wider war.

  14. While I wouldn’t want rules like the Sharia in the US, I think if the people of a Middle Eastern country decide that that’s what they are happy with, I would have no issues with it. Ultimately, they decide in within their cultural framework how they want to live. If their decision is for women to have mandatory burkas or have them circumcized, I do not think it is the place for patriarchal western society to say they are wrong for doing that.

  15. Sorry if it’s inconvenient to point out, but Islam is not a race and critiquing it cannot be “racist”.

    Other people have explained this better than I have, but when I call it racist I’m not saying that Islam is a race; I’m assuming that the reader understands that right-wing nutjobs conflate “Muslim” and “scary Arab,” and have traditionally targeted people who they think “look Muslim.” That’s what makes it racist.

  16. While I wouldn’t want rules like the Sharia in the US, I think if the people of a Middle Eastern country decide that that’s what they are happy with, I would have no issues with it. Ultimately, they decide in within their cultural framework how they want to live. If their decision is for women to have mandatory burkas or have them circumcized, I do not think it is the place for patriarchal western society to say they are wrong for doing that.

    Uh, I do. Some human rights are universal — bodily autonomy is one of them. Also, burkahs and circumcision aren’t part of Sharia.

    I don’t think we should be bombing and invading other countries over the burkah, but I do think that we should be supporting local women’s rights movements and enabling Muslim women to agitate for their own rights. Saying “it’s just their culture” is not ok.

  17. Hey, I wonder if Theo Van Gogh shares your Greek friend’s amazement.

    I knew someone was going to say that. I almost put a disclaimer but then I thought, “Nah, no one is that stupid.” Whoops.

    Ok: Theo Van Gogh is not a country. Theo Van Gogh is an individual, and his murder was retributive. Yes, some crazy religious fanatic murdered him, but they would have murdered him anywhere. It wasn’t a strike at the Dutch. Get it?

    And true they haven’t flown planes into the Netherlands but I wonder why you willfully ignore the attacks on Spain, England, Bali, Israel, Germany, Italy, Thailand, Kenya, Yemen, Kuwait, United States, Indonesia and Afghanistan. Why do you willfully ignore the thousands killed by Islamic terrorists in those countries.

    Yes, clearly what all those countries have in common is that they’re free societies.

    You’re just proving my point: They aren’t attacking because they hate “freedom.” They have a few other grievances.

    Doesn’t fit your idealistic and infantile world view now does it. Pull your head out of your ass and wake the FVCK up. We’ve been down this road once before (think Neville Chamberlain) and you spineless turds are at it again.

    Grammar and spelling is teh awesome, FYI.

    Also, no one is saying that we should do nothing about terrorism. What we’re saying is that the bigoted shit is scary. “Report your teachers and students” for saying things you don’t like is really scary. And your WWII comparison is interesting, because we have been down this road before, and we have targeted a particular ethnic group in this country by “raising awareness” about their insidious activities and hate-mongering. And we got Japanese internment.

    But you guys aren’t against internment anymore, right? See, that’s fucked up.

    How many must die? How many must be killed for their sexual orientation? How many women must be murdered in the name honor before you actually give a shit beyond your selfish little world?

    Compare the number of honor killings + sexual orientation killings to the number of innocent civilians killed in Iraq. Then ask “how many must die before you actually give a shit?”

    Because, see, feminists were concerned about the treatment of women in places like Afghanistan long before conservatives could even point to it on a map (really, do a Google search before you go throwing out accusations). Feminists still regularly fight honor killings, sexual orientation killings, FGM, and on and on. Conservatives aren’t doing any of that. They’re just yelling about how Islam is bad and then invading foreign countries. What, exactly, has any of this done for women or gays?

    Actually, don’t answer. You’re an asshole, and when you come into my space and have this attitude, we don’t let your comments through. Bye now!

  18. OK idiots (GOP4ME, I’m looking at you), here’s a little anecdote for ya:

    This summer, at the Sarajevo Film Festival (which was *awesome,* BTW), Steve Buscemi gave a little speech, at the end of which he acknowledged Theo Van Gogh. The audience (mostly Sarajevans, and Sarajevo is over 80% Muslim) stood and applauded. I was there. I saw it.

    At the film festival, films were also shown with explicit sexual content, as well as depictions of Muslims doing everything from getting drunk and doing drugs to engaging in prostitution. There were even depictions of gay and lesbian Muslims. And no one had a problem with any of that. It was art, and that was the point.

    So, guess what? A society can have a Muslim majority (or plurality, as BiH does) and still be free and secular.

    Open your eyes.

  19. Because, see, feminists were concerned about the treatment of women in places like Afghanistan long before conservatives could even point to it on a map (really, do a Google search before you go throwing out accusations). Feminists still regularly fight honor killings, sexual orientation killings, FGM, and on and on. Conservatives aren’t doing any of that. They’re just yelling about how Islam is bad and then invading foreign countries. What, exactly, has any of this done for women or gays?

    Right on, Jill,

    Before 9/11, feminists were among the very few Americans who had ever heard of Afghanistan, or could place it one a map. Feminists and human rights activists cared about Afghanistan before it was a matter of national self-interest. We cared about the women being raped and tortured in prisons, about the stonings, the girls’ schools being raided, the crushing poverty and starvation, and the journalists being killed for exposing those things. Today, it is only in transitional justice and human rights circles that you will hear about the ethnic cleansing the Taliban perpetrated against non-Pashtun ethnic groups, especially Hazara, during the late nineteen nineties.

    Before the US was attacked on 9/11, the right couldn’t have given a shit about any of that.

  20. You know, this sort of thing just pushes the big red “people are idiots” button in my head. I’m a historian – PhD – and my area of study was, you guessed it, the Second World War – specifically Nazism and Fascism. The term “Islamo-Fascism” has, to put it bluntly, pissed me off from the beginning. There are so many historical misappropriations in the term it’s not even amusing…Fascistic movements were and are, in the essence of it, anti-religious in a very fundamental way. They were communitarian, putting the good of the State (the embodiment of the People) above all other considerations. Religion was a useful tool to ensure conformity to Statist ideologies.

    On the other hand, radical fundamentalist Islamic movements are profoundly anti-State. For them, what matters is the community of believers, and the modern nation-state and its apparatus is, in essence, a root cause of what they consider evil. Islam, for them, crosses ethnic and national lines. I can think of no philosophy more antithetical to nationhood than fundamentalist religious movements.

    “Islamo-Fascism” is a glib and facile term developed by people who think they’re so terribly clever. It’s a propaganda buzz-word designed to evoke an emotional categorization – enabling the development and strengthening of stereotypes.

    But, remember; Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery.

  21. And true they haven’t flown planes into the Netherlands but I wonder why you willfully ignore the attacks on Spain, England, Bali, Israel, Germany, Italy, Thailand, Kenya, Yemen, Kuwait, United States, Indonesia and Afghanistan. Why do you willfully ignore the thousands killed by Islamic terrorists in those countries.

    Anyone notice something fascinating about GOP4ME’s little list here?

    Ten out of the 13 attacks that he lists were planned, financed, and bragged about by one guy. And yet that one guy’s name is not mentioned anywhere in his post. It’s as though we have no idea who perpetrated those attacks and so we have to flail around uselessly trying to figure out who on earth is attacking us.

    Hey, asshole. His name is Osama bin Laden. He’s in Pakistan. He keeps taunting us with videotapes bragging about what he’s done.

    We know who attacked us. Why the fuck are you waffling around pretending we don’t?

  22. Uh, I do. Some human rights are universal — bodily autonomy is one of them. Also, burkahs and circumcision aren’t part of Sharia.

    But the idea of human rights itself is a western one. You find the idea of burkahs or circumcision distasteful only because you have grown up in the western culture. If you had grown up in Central Africa you might have a completely different view of it. Many practices like whether to chop off a thief’s hands or stone an adulterer to death can make sense when you view it through the lens of the culture in which they take place.

  23. Now we need a Christofascist Awareness Week to raise awareness of the far right misogynists in this nation who preach male supremacy every single day. The Christofascist Awareness Week would also shine the light on the GOP’s War on Women in the United States.

  24. But the idea of human rights itself is a western one.

    Are you serious? That’s not true at all.

    You find the idea of burkahs or circumcision distasteful only because you have grown up in the western culture. If you had grown up in Central Africa you might have a completely different view of it.

    Maybe. But human rights activists in countries like Afghanistan and Egypt are opposing practices like FGM and mandatory veiling/covering. So when you say “it’s just their culture and you don’t understand,” you make it clear that you’re sorely uninformed about what these women are doing in their own nations.

    And at some point, human rights and cultural relativism are incompatible. I take the human rights side every time. And no, human rights aren’t uniquely Western, although people in other countries may have different ideas and different priorities. But it’s incredibly insulting and demeaning to Muslim women who are doing the hard work of opposing these practices, and who are trying to change the idea that it’s “just their culture.”

    Part of my “culture” is genocide, war, murder, and the oppression of women and minorities. But I’d be pissed as all hell if someone came in and told me that just because I understand why those things are happening that I should accept them.

  25. About shari’ah, human rights, etc by the way, Muslim nations and communities are having their own deep, incisive discussions about all those issues. We don’t need the Lindy Englunds to come teach us that stuff, thank you. (Addressing the crazies here). In case you really believed we had no notion of what’s good for us, and so on. What we do know, from the history of American guns in Iran (Mossadegh), Latin America, Afghanistan, Iraq etc is that THAT sure doesn’t work. So save your kids, quit the minority-recruitment for the army (just so they can die on foreign soil for your oil), and let us work things out. Seriously.

  26. Are you serious? That’s not true at all.

    Saying doesn’t make it so. Most Islamic countries have declined to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because it conflicts with their culture.

    And at some point, human rights and cultural relativism are incompatible. I take the human rights side every time.

    I think of this as thinly veiled racism. You are appointing yourself as the arbiter of what’s right and what’s wrong for them. As someone said, there is no wrong or right, only our thinking that makes it so.

  27. Saying doesn’t make it so. Most Islamic countries have declined to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because it conflicts with their culture.

    …and we refuse to sign the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women. So we don’t really have all that much on those crazy backwards Islamic countries.

    I think of this as thinly veiled racism. You are appointing yourself as the

    arbiter of what’s right and what’s wrong for them. As someone said, there is no wrong or right, only our thinking that makes it so.

    No. My point is that there are already Muslim women advocating for women’s rights in their own countries. My point is that it’s racist to argue that human rights are a Western invention. There are levels of power and influence in Islamic countries just like there are in the “West,” and just like in the USA women are below men on the totem pole. How can you say that “it’s their culture” when entire groups of people are denied access to the institutions of power that shape culture? (And this applies world-wide, not just in Islamic states).

    As the comment above yours says, people in Islamic states are having these conversations. We do not live in an insular world — there are back-and-forths and there are exchanges. I’m not proposing that we go in and obliterate other countries in the name of “human rights” — that’s exactly the hypocrisy that this post addresses. Instead, I’m pointing out that it’s insulting and infantalizing to assume that human rights issues aren’t being discussed in these countries, and that oppressed groups there aren’t trying to change what you apparently see as a static culture.

  28. Or, John, here’s a question: Do we have a right to be outraged by the Rwandan genocide? By Darfur? Do we have a right to even criticize?

    If so, why do we have the right to criticize that and not the treatment of women all over the world?

  29. I think most people are outraged by the way many Middle Eastern countries treat women (and their human rights records in general.) But is demonizing Islam and starting wars against “Islamo-fascism” the way to fight this? I would say no. Things were terrible in Iraq in many ways before we attacked, but now they are worse (especially women’s rights.) Plus many of our allies in the “War on Terror” have horrible human rights records, for example Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

  30. Or, John, here’s a question: Do we have a right to be outraged by the Rwandan genocide? By Darfur? Do we have a right to even criticize?

    I think the Rwandan genocide is a consequence of the colonial past that the continent had to endure and still does. These upheavals are tragic but there may be no way to avoid them until the continent returns to its pre-colonial balance that existed between the various tribes. As such, I am hesitant to think that the west has a right to criticize such developments. Especially since our past isn’t particularly clean regarding such matters.

    If so, why do we have the right to criticize that and not the treatment of women all over the world?

    n/a

  31. Well, John, all I can say is that’s pretty fucked up. And of course our past isn’t clean — that’s why we should be self-critical as well.

  32. “it’s just their culture and you don’t understand,”

    That’s funny considering that concepts of human rights was discussed by non-westerners such as the Chinese philosopher Mo-zi who lived around two thousand years ago.

    Moreover, this way of thinking has the disgusting implication that concepts like human rights prove the enlightenment of the West and thus, proves the “savagery” of non-Western peoples. This mentality seemed to be common across the political spectrum as I’ve witnessed it among some American conservative christian missionaries and American liberal activists. While they will attempt to deny it, the implications are clear when they speak with the tone that they are “more enlightened” and thus, know more about how to bring “progress” to the “uncivilized” non-Western populace. In some ways this reminded me of the reasons why many Chinese in the last century viewed Western missionaries as arrogant interlopers and agents of Western Imperialism.

    I assume similar sentiments are felt by many other non-Western peoples when faced with Americans and other Westerners operating from patronizingly ignorant assumptions about their history and culture.

  33. Oh, and John, I’d encourage you to check out the history of colonialism in the Middle East, and how it’s influenced modern notions of women’s and human rights. The fact is that people in majority-Muslim countries were agitating for these rights long before we showed up, and its been our presence that has perverted a lot of those efforts.

  34. John, the so-called “blood libel” against Jews (which argued that Jews in Europe used the blood of Christian children in their rituals) was a fundamental part of European culture from the Middle Ages on into the twentieth century. It justified many of the early pograms and helped to justify the rampant anti-Semitism that lead to the Holocaust. It would not be inaccurate to say that anti-Semitism in its most virulent and disturbing forms was (and is) a part of Christian European culture.

    Therefore, we cannot criticize the Holocaust, right? Because hating Jews was an acceptable form of thought and behavior at the time, the logical extension of that hatred must be also justifiable.

    (In other words, and at the risk of opening a big ass can of worms, moral relativism is a crock of shit.)

  35. Most Islamic countries have declined to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because it conflicts with their culture.

    Gosh, you mean that countries run by men who refuse to allow women any power refuse to ratify a declaration that would give women a tiny amount of power? What a shock!

    Next thing I know, you’re going to be telling me that white people actually resisted school integration in the United States and didn’t greet it with wholehearted approval.

  36. See, if women (or another group) don’t have power and can’t affect changes in the culture, you can’t just say, “Well, it’s ok if that country oppresses them, that’s how the citizens want it, it’s their culture.” Because the minority groups are part of the culture too.

  37. Many of you are thinking in a ‘white man’s burden’ kind of way where it is your duty to bring other cultures to whatever exalted level you are at. Other cultures may just be happy exactly where they are. You are not better than them. Not all people desire freedom, many are happy in their own worlds, put a lesser strain on the environment, and contribute to far less destruction around them.

  38. Because, see, feminists were concerned about the treatment of women in places like Afghanistan long before conservatives could even point to it on a map (really, do a Google search before you go throwing out accusations). Feminists still regularly fight honor killings, sexual orientation killings, FGM, and on and on. Conservatives aren’t doing any of that. They’re just yelling about how Islam is bad and then invading foreign countries. What, exactly, has any of this done for women or gays?

    I concur with Miss Sarajevo : right on, Jill.
    Here’s the story I have to share about that. On the 29th september of 2001 there has been a demonstration in Paris about women’s rights in Afghanistan. There had been many demonstration about that matter all along 2001. I have been aware of them almost only through feminist channels, great media didn’t care much. Then came 9/11, and the 9/29 demonstration (which had been scheduled by an Afghan feminist organization since the 24th of july of the same year) has been incidently a huge one. I was part of it, and I have always wondered who would have been there and who wouldn’t have, if there hadn’t been the WTC attack inbetween. I know I would have. I know feminist organizations would have too. But many organizations came at the last moment, that would have probably ditched the event if there hadn’t been 9/11 attacks.

  39. Hi John,

    Not all people desire freedom, many are happy in their own worlds, put a lesser strain on the environment, and contribute to far less destruction around them.

    probably people do not want freedom the way YOU define it.
    Probably they don’t want freedom because they have been living in fear and survival instincts are not letting them respond to the desire of freedom.
    and by the above statement it seems wanting freedom contributes to destruction in some way…or my english comprehension is just poor (not sarcy, tell me!)
    your statement in any case is extremely patronising.
    i might be a woman in India, Pakistan, France wanting to wear a hijab and niqab or burqa or i might be a woman in these countries NOT wanting to waer a burqa, in which case according to you, i don’t understand what freedom is!
    and everyone wants to be their own contextual burdens, sources of unhappiness,lack of opportunities to growm prejudices so wanting freedom IS universal actually.

  40. John, it doesn’t make sense to say that “there is no wrong or right, only our thinking that makes it so”, and immediately follow that with ‘you should not ever criticize other cultures’. You’re saying morality is based in culture, but then asserting that tolerance is a universal moral imperative–that’s an oxymoron.

  41. Yikes, waaaay too much cultural relativism going on here.

    I come face to face with this stuff in real life all the time. For example, people argue that there isn’t much we can do about the crushing poverty and despicable living conditions of the Roma community. Roma kids begging instead of attending school, Roma women and girls being trafficked, exploited, abused –it’s all just part of their culture. That’s the argument, and it’s bullshit.

    Roma live in the miserable conditions they do because they have been discriminated against for centuries and are so socially marginalized that the life awaiting a Roma child at birth doesn’t even come close to resembling that of a “white” child. Roma are the Untouchable caste of Europe, especially Eastern Europe. It’s a continent-wide shame.

    All people are entitled to the same set of human rights and fundamental freedoms. There are many ways to realize these rights, but to argue that they apply to some groups of people and not to others based on “culture” is more than ridiculous, it’s a form of prejudice in itself, and, in the case of John, it’s outright racism.

  42. Many of you are thinking in a ‘white man’s burden’ kind of way where it is your duty to bring other cultures to whatever exalted level you are at. Other cultures may just be happy exactly where they are. You are not better than them. Not all people desire freedom, many are happy in their own worlds, put a lesser strain on the environment, and contribute to far less destruction around them.

    John,

    Freedom, though defined differently depending on historical and cultural contexts, is a universal yearning. How else would you explain the numerous popular revolts occurring in non-Western societies throughout history and anti-colonial struggles over the last century?

    Are you seriously implying that freedom is only a American/Western construct??? If so, your assumptions speaks volumes about your ignorance of non-Western cultures and is in itself a variant on a twisted variant on the “White Man’s Burden” mentality.

  43. Many of you are thinking in a ‘white man’s burden’ kind of way where it is your duty to bring other cultures to whatever exalted level you are at. Other cultures may just be happy exactly where they are. You are not better than them. Not all people desire freedom, many are happy in their own worlds, put a lesser strain on the environment, and contribute to far less destruction around them.

    Why, all of those slaves were happy being slaves in the antebellum days! They would spend all of their time dancing and singing. And then the Union had to come along and “free” them and ruin everything by imposing their culture on the South.
    /sarcasm, in case that wasn’t clear

    I am still trying to figure out where “we support feminists who are making a difference in their own countries” becomes “it’s our duty to impose our culture on everyone else.” Hint: if it’s the citizens inside the country who are lobbying for the change, we’re not imposing anything. Unless you think the problem is that us uppity bitches in the West keep trying to tell women that they’re not worthless and don’t deserve to be gang-raped just because their brother or cousin did something wrong.

  44. I am still trying to figure out where “we support feminists who are making a difference in their own countries” becomes “it’s our duty to impose our culture on everyone else.”

    THANK YOU.

    I think the problem here is that John is probably used to arguing with conservative dickwads who use these arguments to justify invasions and oppressions. He seems to be missing the point that we don’t want to go in and impose anything — but we do recognize that there are already women all over the world who are working for progressive change in their own communities, and those women are not supported. So when he says things about “their culture,” he assumes both that culture is static and that there aren’t already people within that culture doing the hard work to achieve human rights on their own terms.

  45. Oh, and the idea that freedom and human rights are only “western” concepts?

    Unfortunately, this tripe has been advanced quite effectively by the ruling elite in authoritarian societies to undermine domestic activism for human rights and personal freedoms and Westerners on both sides of the political spectrum who both bought into the myth that great concepts such as those could only come from the “enlightened West”.

  46. I wish I could see cultural relativism invoked for a reason other than to justify human rights violations, or shut down any criticism of those human rights violations.

    It just seems to cover deeply racist thought. Saying that freedom or human rights are western concepts seems to be the same as saying that other cultures are incapable of coming up with these ideas on their own.

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