In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

“What kind of idea are you?

Are you the kind that compromises, does deals, accommodates itself to society, aims to find a niche, to survive; or are you the cursed, bloody-minded ramrod-backed type of damnfool notion that would rather break than sway with the breeze? – the kind that will almost certainly, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, be smashed to bits; but the hundredth time, will change the world?”
-Salman Rushdie, The Satanic Verses

Salman Rushdie’s upcoming knighting has reignited the extremist voices that called for his murder back when The Satanic Verses came out. While there are a lot of things to dislike about the above-linked editorial, I’m with Ash when he writes:

The issue here is not whether Rushdie’s writing merits a knighthood or whether left-wing, cosmopolitan writers should accept honors from her majesty. (My answers are “yes,” and “why not?” but that’s by the way.)

The issue is whether people should be killed, or need to be protected from a serious threat of being killed, for what they say or write. And whether a sovereign, democratic state should censor its recognition of its own citizens in the face of such intimidation.

He doesn’t propose what we should (or even can) do about the people who put a reward on Rushdie’s head. And while I agree with him that Rushdie’s life shouldn’t be threatened, no matter how offensive his book,* Ash loses me when he starts finger-wagging at Muslims:

American Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously observed that a man should not be free to shout a false alarm of “Fire!” in a crowded theater. Now, the fact is that even if a secular liberal intellectual were to say, “Mad Mullah X deserves to be shot,” the likelihood that someone would go out and shoot Mullah X as a result is close to zero. There are no al-Darwinia brigades practicing bomb making in secret laboratories, awaiting an order from their beloved imam Richard Dawkins to assassinate Mullah X.

If, however, a Muslim cleric or intellectual says, “Salman Rushdie deserves to be shot,” there are people out there who may take it literally. Remember that Rushdie’s Japanese translator was murdered, his Italian translator was stabbed and his Norwegian publisher attacked because Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini had called for everyone involved in propagating “The Satanic Verses” to be punished. Because of this explosive context, Muslim speakers need to exercise a particular care in their choice of words.


It doesn’t make sense to hold Muslims to a different standard just because they’re Muslim. Patterns of violence certainly do matter, and of course a statement from Pakistan’s religious affairs minister (who is also the son of the former military dictator Zia ul-Haq) that a suicide bombing is a justifiable response to Rushie’s knighting is much more threatening than some kid on the street commenting that Rushdie should be killed. But religion cannot be the basis upon which we deem threats, or calls to murder, credible — power, opportunity and influence are much, much more important. Of course, religious authority does go along with power, and there’s a certain zeal to religious extremists that doesn’t carry over into very many other spheres. But I’d rather have a Muslim kid on a street in London* call for my head than have, say, Richard Dawkins tell his followers that I must be killed.

But Ash seems to think that Muslims are mostly backwards cave-dwellers, confused by these things called “reason” and “democracy.” And, apparently, not regular L.A. Times readers — note how he addresses his audience as “We non-Muslims”:

We non-Muslims need, in return, to be generously clear about the distinction between what a free society requires of them and what we merely desire. We may desire that they abandon what we regard as outmoded superstitions, that they “see reason,” become modern, liberal and secular. But, in a free society, nobody should require that of them.

If “we” is supposed to mean “Americans,” then we don’t desire that they abandon outmoded superstitions, we desire that they exchange their outmoded superstitions for ours. We are, after all, one of the most religious nations on Earth — our current majority-Christian populace isn’t “modern, liberal and secular” much of the time. That isn’t to question the virtues of being modern, liberal and secular, but simply to point out that no religion has a monopoly on being backwards and theocratic, and people of every religion are quite capable of “seeing reason,” and of living in a modern, liberal secular democracy.

And people of every religion are capable of making the kind of us-versus-them divides that Ash does here. If we want all different kinds of people to be a part of our modern, liberal, secular society, then we probably shouldn’t label it “ours” and refer to “us” and “them,” as if “they” can’t understand secularism and rule of law. Killing people who offend your religious values isn’t exactly a new thing, and it’s definitely not an exclusively Islamic practice.

Which, of course, is not to excuse death threats. The people threatening Rushdie’s life are nuts, and it is scary that there are plenty of followers who will carry out the orders if given the opportunity. But pinning this on the inability of Muslim citizens to adjust to secularism is pretty short-sighted.

*Because it’s probably not obvious from this post, I’ll just add that I loved The Satanic Verses and I’m a huge Rushdie fan.
**Am I the only Rushdie reader who can’t read that word without thinking “Elloween Deeowen”?


21 thoughts on <em>“What kind of idea are you?</em>

  1. Happy as I am that somebody has pointed out that Richard Dawkins does not actually request assassinations, that’s a pretty stupid take on things.

  2. These days, I would rather have crazy fundamental Muslims than America’s crazy fundamental Christians- at least the crazy Muslims aren’t in charge of my government.

    If we are actually “modern, liberal and secular” can we ask all religious people- Muslim, Christian, whatever- to become “modern, liberal and secular”? I would laugh if America as a whole did- but can feminist atheist democrats do so? Just curious.

  3. I think theres something to be said for holding death threats made in the name of religion more seriously than you would hold a similar threat from a secular source. That is doubly true when the threat comes from a religious community with a recent history of religiously motivated violence. I’m not saying that Ash is right to call out muslims specifically (on the contrary, fundamentalists of all stripes have similar track records) just that religion deserves to be taken into account when a threat is made.

    To draw a parallel in the United States: lets say, for the sake of argument, that NOW called for the execution of all pharmacists refusing to provide birth control in a press release tomorrow and on the same day James Dobson puts out a press release calling for the execution of all abortion providers. If someone asked you to bet which call would be more likely to end in someone being murdered, where would your money be?

    Religion counts, especially monotheistic religions, because they all have dominance and duality at their core. When you disagree with a fundamentalist, you aren’t just taking a different opinion, you are calling into question everything they know about the world. You are attacking all they hold dear, you are transgressing against the very concepts of good. When someone with that mindset starts calling for others of a similar disposition to kill a heretic its a hell of a lot more serious, and more likely to be answered.

  4. There was a nation over there in Muslim-land that was pretty liberal and secular, outside of its fanatical leader. Then we invaded their land, bombed their towns and cities, killed and tortured their residents. We created chaos where there once was stability and their response has been hyper organization and control.

    And we believe we still have the moral authority to point out the villain.

  5. Ash loses me when he starts finger-wagging at Muslims:

    But it is Muslims that demand that he is killed or – at the very least – that his knighthood be revoked. Not Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews or Atheists. I agree with William.

  6. Maybe, William, but that’s not really what the writer said, is it?

    The writer calls out the Muslim population as lacking reason, and being more prone to violence than “we” are, while completely ignoring the number of Christian terrorists who have used violence and murder as tools to push their agenda within our border.

  7. Roy, I get your point, but I disagree. I’m not really familiar enough with the writer to have an opinion as to whether these are mistakes he makes routinely or not. What IS the case is that we are talking about Rushdie’s knighthood and muslim response. There are broader implications, and christian terrorists need to be addressed as well, but right now we are discussing muslims. At the end of the day you only have so many words your editor is going to send to the press and not every report or essay can be a complete and comprehensive treatment of every concept within the case.

    The fundamental conflict is between religious fundamentalism and secular western liberalism. When Ash used words like “we” or “us” I believe he was referring to secular western society. Might there be some racism, some sins of omission in Ash’s story? Probably, but he WAS talking about Rushdie. There isn’t exactly a gaggle of christian and shinto groups baying for his blood.

    So yes, today the discussion is about radical Islam because today it is radical Islam which rattles it’s sabers. Tomorrow, who knows?

  8. I think there’s also something to be said about the “Rule of Law” here as well. A fundamentalist of any stripe will gain power, funding, and mobility in countries or regions where “Rule of Law” is absent.

    So in other words, if you take the same socio-economic circumstances in Pakistan or Afghanistan and raise a fundamentalist Christian (or any person really) you will garner the same product.

    It never fails to amaze me how people overlook these additional, extremely complex factors when speaking collectively about Muslims (as if they were a monolith to begin with.) It frustrates me to no end… 🙁

  9. The writer calls out the Muslim population as lacking reason

    He doesn’t, actually. He uses quotes to show that in his view, those who call on Muslims to “see reason” are in fact calling on them to give up their beliefs.

  10. The people threatening Rushdie’s life are nuts, and it is scary that there are plenty of followers who will carry out the orders if given the opportunity. But pinning this on the inability of Muslim citizens to adjust to secularism is pretty short-sighted.

    Did you miss the bit about the fatwa? If the reason they’re trying to kill him is because a theocrat issued an worldwide edicit which says he should be killed and which trumps the law of the land, then I think you can blame it on the inability of Muslim citizens to adjust to secularism. The whole issue is about the threat of a religious ruling being imposed upon someone who lives in a secular state. I’d say the inability to adjust to secularism is the problem.

  11. I think you know that this statement is patently false. We are clearly one of the most religious nations in Western Civilization (I realize the latter concept isn’t popular in these circles but bear with me), but we are nowhere near one of the most religious nations on earth. I think I only need to point to virtually all Muslim countries as well as many Christian and Buddhist Countries in Africa and Asia which are more religious. And our Christian populace, although not the most ‘progressive’ population on earth, is still much more liberal and secular than the population of most countries in the world.

    I’d also like to point out the hypocracy of much of the Muslim population that sees nothing wrong with telling the West who should be knighted or assassinated and what kind of cartoons can be drawn and building gigantic Mosques while banning Christianity and Judaism in many (I realize not all) of their countries altogether.

  12. We are, after all, one of the most religious nations on Earth — our current majority-Christian populace isn’t “modern, liberal and secular” much of the time

    Was the statement I was trying to quote. Sorry about the confusion.

  13. I would just point out that this opinion piece was originally published in the Guardian newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2109595,00.html) , so Ash’s presumed audience are Guardian readers in British society.

    And in my view, using the phrase “we non-Muslims” is not assuming that his audience are exclusively non-Muslim, it strikes me simply as an equivalent, and shorter way of saying “those of us who are not Muslim”.

  14. But Ash seems to think that Muslims are mostly backwards cave-dwellers, confused by these things called “reason” and “democracy.” And, apparently, not regular L.A. Times readers — note how he addresses his audience as “We non-Muslims.”

    It’s a particularly dopey thing to print in the LA Times since we have a large observant Muslim population out here — some of the public schools (such as Beverly Hills) close for Muslim holidays in addition to Christian and Jewish ones.

    And I notice that a lot of commenters on here are not drawing a distinction between Muslims living in secular countries in the West and Muslims living in majority-Muslim countries in the Middle East or Asia, ie countries that are not secular.

    I seriously doubt that the woman on the bus next to me in Los Angeles who’s wearing a headscarf is going to kill Salman Rushdie. Sorry, I know you guys are really invested in The Great Brown Menace That Will Kill Western Civilization, but it’s just not going to happen.

  15. And I notice that a lot of commenters on here are not drawing a distinction between Muslims living in secular countries in the West and Muslims living in majority-Muslim countries in the Middle East or Asia, ie countries that are not secular.

    Thank you.

    Also of note: only 18 percent of Muslims are Arabs (i.e., from Mess o’ Potamia, the Middle East, the part of the world where we’re fighting wars). Most Muslims are actually Asian. Somehow the ‘evils’ of Islam has not made the almost 1 million (if I remember correctly) Muslims in China want to destroy us. So, maybe it’s the wars we’re fighting there and not the teachings of the religion?

    Just a thought.

  16. Actually, according to wikipedia’s entry on Islam there are 20 Million Muslims in China.

    So, correction to my (currently in moderation) comment.

  17. The writer calls out the Muslim population as lacking reason

    He doesn’t, actually. He uses quotes to show that in his view, those who call on Muslims to “see reason” are in fact calling on them to give up their beliefs.

    Really? That’s not how this reads to me:
    We non-Muslims need, in return, to be generously clear about the distinction between what a free society requires of them and what we merely desire. We may desire that they abandon what we regard as outmoded superstitions, that they “see reason,” become modern, liberal and secular. But, in a free society, nobody should require that of them.

    As I read that, it’s saying that we can request and desire that, but not require it. The implication, though, is the same- these are things that they lack, or else we couldn’t desire those things. If they were reasonable, modern, liberal, and secular, then we wouldn’t need to desire those things- our desires would already have been met. Maybe I’m misreading? Maybe when he said “Muslims have the right to be deeply offensive back. Indeed, they have the perfect right to articulate positions that we may regard as irrational, retrograde and oppressive.” he wasn’t meaning to suggest that Muslims are irrational, retrograde, or oppressive?

    Roy, I get your point, but I disagree… …What IS the case is that we are talking about Rushdie’s knighthood and muslim response. There are broader implications, and christian terrorists need to be addressed as well, but right now we are discussing muslims.

    Okay, but if that’s the case, it’s unfair to extend the argument out to all religious groups as though that’s what the author actually said. Maybe that’s what the author believes- but that’s not what the article states. Further: We’re not just talking about Muslim response- we’re talking about extremist Muslim responses, but an author who appears to be treating a radical response as the norm, and completely ignoring the number of ways in which other radical religious groups have used terror and violence as tools to and end, as well. He’s painting Muslims in broad strokes, over the actions of a select few, and generalizing as if this is a common problem.

    At the end of the day you only have so many words your editor is going to send to the press and not every report or essay can be a complete and comprehensive treatment of every concept within the case.

    Which is all the more reason to make sure that the words you’re choosing say what you mean them to say. If the author’s point is that extremist groups shouldn’t go around making death threats or calling for violence because they have members who are likely to take those calls seriously, that’s what should be said. Instead, he chose to say that Muslims need to be careful of what they say.

    Might there be some racism, some sins of omission in Ash’s story? Probably, but he WAS talking about Rushdie. There isn’t exactly a gaggle of christian and shinto groups baying for his blood.

    No. He was using Rushdie’s case as an example for what he sees as a larger issue- the care that Muslims need to take in choosing words and issuing statements. There aren’t a gaggle of other religious groups calling for Rushdie’s blood, sure, but there are Christian groups that absolutely use terrorism as a weapon. The article is about the free speech issues that the threats against Rushdie- as an author- bring to light. His major points are things like “In a free society, we don’t have to agree. We only have to agree on how we disagree.” and “All that a free society requires of them — as of every other citizen — is that they conduct this argument peacefully and obey the law of the land.”

    Those aren’t limited to Muslims- they apply to everyone. Rushdie’s case certainly brings that to light, but, again, there are any number of groups out there who this could apply to. I’d love to see evidence that the LA Times or the Guardian publish an article about some fringe Christian group calling for abortion providers deaths talk about Christians as being backwards, primative, believing in outmoded superstitions, irrational, retrograde, and oppresive. Somehow, I think I’ll be waiting a while.

    So yes, today the discussion is about radical Islam because today it is radical Islam which rattles it’s sabers. Tomorrow, who knows?

  18. This seems a gross misrepresentation of his point.

    Muslim? Christian? Doesn’t matter. The issue between the “we” and the “them” isn’t the religion itself. It’s the link between the religion and the rest of the world.

    All religions are not the same insofar as the actions of the sanctioned leaders of the religion are quite different.

    Lots of bad shit happens in the name of Christianity, for example. That said, one generally doesn’t see bishops asking their flocks to, oh, go kill people. Low-ranking people do that, sure. And that’s pretty universal across all religions, But the Muslim religion has a pretty high rate of higher-ups doing that sort of thing.

    This piece seems pretty clearly aimed at distinguishing between how Muslims and non-muslims practice their religion, not what religion one practices.

    And that doesn’t mean being non-religious. Hell, he applauds book-burning at the end of the article.

    And people of every religion are capable of making the kind of us-versus-them divides that Ash does here. If we want all different kinds of people to be a part of our modern, liberal, secular society, then we probably shouldn’t label it “ours” and refer to “us” and “them,” as if “they” can’t understand secularism and rule of law. Killing people who offend your religious values isn’t exactly a new thing, and it’s definitely not an exclusively Islamic practice.

    No. But that’s a straw man: the article doesn’t really talk about killing people. Rather it talks about religious leaders who incite their flocks to kill people. There’s a very, very significant difference.

  19. And I notice that a lot of commenters on here are not drawing a distinction between Muslims living in secular countries in the West and Muslims living in majority-Muslim countries in the Middle East or Asia, ie countries that are not secular.

    I seriously doubt that the woman on the bus next to me in Los Angeles who’s wearing a headscarf is going to kill Salman Rushdie. Sorry, I know you guys are really invested in The Great Brown Menace That Will Kill Western Civilization, but it’s just not going to happen.

    One would almost think that you’re trying to frame this discussion by assuming those who take a position opposite to yours are racists, Mnemosyne. I’m going to go ahead and assume that wasn’t what you meant.

    As someone living in the US, I can largely assume that muslims who live in my neck of the woods aren’t going to do anything untoward. The vast majority of them have migrated here to work hard and try to eke out a better life for themselves and their families. Of the millions of muslim immigrants who have settled in the united state only a tiny minority have been involved in any criminal activity, much less any kind of terrorist act.

    Someone living in Europe (as is the case for Ash) doesn’t quite have the same piece of mind. Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the street, Ayaan Hirsi Ali was driven from the continent, worldwide riots were sparked by a newspaper printing childish cartoons, Imams preaching that women who do not confirm to cultural sensibilities deserving to be raped, and lets not forget the disturbing gang-rapes in Paris. Is there a “Great Brown Menace” waiting to destroy the European way of life? No, of course not. There is, however, a group of people who have a recent trackrecord of religiously motivated violence. A minority within a larger community that has shown it’s willingness to carry out exactly the kinds of threats that are being made against Rushdie.

  20. Roy: I feel as if it is possible that you are reading Ash’s article in the worst possible light. Perhaps that is the correct light, perhaps not. There are some important turns of phrase that I think you have disregarded (“positions that we may regard as irrational, retrograde and oppressive.”) That seemed to me to be Ash’s attempt at trying (and possibly failing) to maintain two opposing points of view. I think we’re starting to stray into areas of subjective opinion at this point.

    On a side note, I completely agree with you regarding the need for major news sources to call out terrorists of all stripes. I also agree that its likely we’ll end up waiting. Thats unfortunate. Still, it seems as if you’re trying to have it both ways. The problem with Islam and Muslims (or Christians, for that matter) isn’t extremism, at least not in the way you seem to mean it. The problem is what happens when you indoctrinate people into a dualistic faith. We aren’t talking about a handful of people who hold ideal repugnant to their fellow followers and contrary to their articles of faith. We are talking about people who hold a view of the world that is fundamentally essentialist, people who believe in immutable principles of right and wrong handed down by a scolding father figure from thousands of years in the past, people who see an authoritarian patriarchy as an ideal to fight for rather than something to fight against. Most importantly there is a deafening silence in religious communities regarding their “extremists.” The extremists are not just the bomb makers, the people who murder abortion providers, they are the millions of followers who remain silent, the people who protest only when the camera is on them, the people who say “well, its terrible that someone was murdered, but you really can’t be surprised…”

    The problem might be most apparent with terrorists, but it is seen throughout religious cultures. You see it in the imprisonment of people who publish cartoons, in the creepy glee millions have had while reading about people being tortured in the Left Behind series, you see it in Bush using words like “crusade,” and in the blind eye turned to the worst abuses in religious communities all over the world.

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