“For some people who see the pink shirts,” the investment banker, 25, said, “they ostracize, they say it’s uncool. But just because you went to Princeton doesn’t mean you’re a jerk.” As a “poor kid” by Princeton’s standards who went to Princeton in the late eighties on massive financial aid, I can say that it’s like Lender’s Bagels: you don’t have to be a jerk to graduate from Princeton but it helps. If, however, you actually say “just because you went to Princeton doesn’t mean you’re a jerk,” you are one, stone guaranteed. I could tell you stories, but basically if you “summer” slicing deli meat in a rural grocery store to get money for the following year’s expenses, you have a different experience from those who are “summering” at “the Cape.” Before Princeton, this son of a nurse and a self-employed craftsman did not even know those words. Only student I knew who was more alienated by class from that place than I was had a father who picked grapes seasonally in California’s Central Valley. Yeah, puking with you, Jill.
Well, I don’t know. On the one hand, sure, I bet you’re reconsidering your exhortation to bomb that glorified food court stand, or at least wanting to expand the list. On the other hand, I thought the author did a pretty good job of mocking these people and making them seem–okay, bringing out the fact that–they’re utterly vacuous (“everyone here was tall”). You know it’s bad when the NYTimes thinks you’re too bourgeois.
“Women come here looking for their future husbands.” *barf* *hurl* *ralph* I can’t fucking stand it when a woman “goes looking” for a husband. A husband isn’t a new pair of goddamn shoes, for one thing, and for another, why can’t you just go out to have fun anymore without having your entire social life centered around locating the sugar daddy of your dreams?
As someone with a preppy NYC private school diploma currently attending an uber-preppy Cambridge college, I think I can safely say: this is why I don’t have a lot of friends.
And as someone currently attending a preppy New Haven college, I can say that these insufferable morons are NOT the majority–they’re just a very visible, identifiable type. Naturally they tend to congregate in NYC post-graduation. “Investment banker”–heh, color me shocked.
That bar is foetid. (I still like pink dress shirts on men, though. Part of my WASP fetish.) PS: Gawker is so going to wail on these people.
Oh, and Mnem. Paris is certainly rich, but she never went to any sort of school. Her parents never made her. I find that really sad.
“I’m confused – why do they all wear pink shirts?” From a google search, it seems to be some postwar preppie thing that got popular after WWII, but faded during the 60s & came back again. And I have no idea if it’s related, but there’s a shirt store called Pink on 6th Ave in Manhattan, which tends to rather conservative styles, but has pink shirts. As for the article, the place doesn’t really fit in with the neighborhood, but I don’t necessarily find preppies any more annoying than other groups. I work in Manhattan, live on Staten Island, so I’ve experienced preppie bars and banker bars in the city, along with hipster bars and dance clubs. On the Island, we have our own category which I call the Oompa Loompas (derived from the color the tanning booth or spray on tans give them). Their drink of choice is Red Bull & vodka which makes them a wee bit hyper. Then you have your basic low key neighborhood places.
Hmmm. My husband has been wearing pink shirts (at my behest) for years. Now I fear I will have to request that he stop. Bleah.
Not only did Paris Hilton not go to any college like Princeton, she was a high school dropout. (And, currently having a younger brother at Princeton, who FWIW doesn’t wear a pink shirt, I don’t want him tarred with her “spoiled privilege” brush.)
Yeah – this story is important??? And the whole NYT article about the poison medicine never once admits that the reason people are dying is the profit motive and lack of gov’t oversight. It says, “the syrup is cheaper,” but dances around the fact that unregulated capitalism causes this stuff. Whatever.
I dunno. Aren’t you glad that all of those people are safely quarantined in one place, so that they will not bother the rest of us?
Mr. Cleary, handsome if one considers Gary Sinese handsome, prefers meeting women in the street-level restaurant rather than in the noisier basement-level club, which usually starts hopping around 11:30 p.m., although both offer an excellent caliber of women, he said. Yo, dipshit. Women are not the fucking wine list.
You know, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I am with the NY Times article. These people broke the rules: tasteful elitism isn’t supposed to be this obvious. You actually only admit the people from the correct snotty schools, but it’s tacky as hell to spell that out. So this club is subject to mockery, because it steps over an invisible line. But when you think about it, it’s not really that different from the Times Styles section. What percentage of the people in the wedding announcements went to exactly those schools? It seems to me that the Times wants to have its cake and eat it, too. They’re playing the populist by mocking elitism, but they practice exactly the same elitism. They just aren’t quite tasteless enough to be explicit about it.
I agree with Sally as far as the show of elitism is concerned. I also went to Friends Academy, and I also attend an exclusive, preppy college. But the entities to which those diplomas might grant me access don’t advertise how snobby they are. The Friends Academy NYC reunion is next month. I wonder if I’ll see Mr. Cleary there. In a pink shirt. Talking smoothly to the ladies.
Wow – how working class am I? My response to the “$27 dollar cab ride up to 84th street” was: “Um, take the fucking train, you wankers. Or is it too unthinkable to go among the unwashed and then walk two blocks? Oh, the horrors!” Sigh. And I wonder why I dropped out of the elite college. And why I hate spending most of my day in Soho. Luci needs a new job.
It seems to me that the Times wants to have its cake and eat it, too. They’re playing the populist by mocking elitism, but they practice exactly the same elitism. They just aren’t quite tasteless enough to be explicit about it. Definitely, The NYT has class issues and it either can’t or won’t acknowledge them. Back in 1995, they ran a Magazine piece on one town’s “Queen of the Green” (a pageant for a Holyoke’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade). It was around the time they’d ran a piece on a debutante ball. Both events had certain similarities, which in my eyes meant they were both either quaint traditions or events to be mocked. Or even a bit of both. Guess which got treated as the quaint tradition and which got mocked? In addition to mocking Queen of the Green, the author also felt it necessary to mention in a (if memory serves me correctly) snotty tone that the dresses ordered for the next year’s events were sizes 10, 12 & 14. But they made no mention of any dress sizes for the debutantes. When they did a piece on how unemployment was hitting the middle class harder than it had in the past, the blue collar guy “clenched” his beer while the white collar guy “sipped” his martini. And an article on rebuilding the ferry terminal referred to those of us on Staten Island as “mere urban commuters” compared to tourists & people taking the ferry as a lark.
There are a lot of clubs that are pretty open about admitting women based on their appearance. I find some of the outrage over the elitism of this club, which admits people of both sexes on more or less academically based criteria (give or take some legacy admits) a little out of proportion.
I find some of the outrage over the elitism of this club, which admits people of both sexes on more or less academically based criteria (give or take some legacy admits) a little out of proportion. Having gone to a fancy private high school is a class-based criterion, not an academically-based one. But yeah, I’m not feeling the outrage, either. Some people are assholes. This is not news.
Having gone to a fancy private high school is a class-based criterion, not an academically-based one. While this is often true, I came from a very low-income household and went to a fancy private high school. The exception doesn’t make the rule, but not all of us are rich legacy admits. There are admissions exams.
I don’t see what’s so horrible about this. People in in-group X go to bar that catters to in-group X. Yawn.
Having gone to a fancy private high school is a class-based criterion, not an academically-based one. I’m not quite low-income, but definitely not rich, and while there were an awful lot of dumb rich kids at my high school (mostly the survivors), there were also a fair number of genuinely very smart, talented kids, especially among kids who only went there for high school; there were a bunch of Prep for Prep kids there, and also a bunch of kids who were well-off but you wouldn’t think about it because they were totally down-to-earth and not at all show-offy. Not to say these kids (myself included) weren’t privileged; we absolutely were to be able to go to the school we did (which, snobbery aside, was a great experience for me in many ways). And your point of course stands, that it’s ridiculous to assume someone is smarter just because they went to a “better” school (if there’s one thing going go a schmancy school taught me, it’s that the “elite” can be as fucking stupid as anyone. “wait they didn’t have tomatoes in ancient rome?” “no, no they didn’t.” “but, then how did they make pizza???”).
Hee, my friend went to Woodward– thanks New York Times style section for providing me with at least a month’s worth of grief to bestow upon my decidedly unpreppy friend.
Burns: Why is that man in a pink shirt? Smithers: Oh, that’s Homer Simpson, sir. He’s one of your boobs from Sector 7-G. Burns: Simpson, eh? Well, judging by his outlandish attire, he’s some sort of free-thinking anarchist. Smithers: I’ll call security, sir. Burns: Excellent. Yes, these color monitors have already paid for themselves…
Irate Islander – the “Pink” store on Madison is an outlet of the English haberdasher, Thomas Pink Men’s Clothes. The original Thomas Pink was an 18th-century tailor who specialized in “hunting” (that is, fox-hunting) clothing. Thomas Pink was famous for his scarlet riding jackets, which, confusingly, became known as “pink coats.” There’s no connection between the original Thomas Pink and the modern company – they just took his name and its upper-crust associations, and they use the color pink as a trademark. Mainly, they make very expensive and stylish men’s shirts and ties.
Oh dear. As a librarian, I do so hate it when terms are used incorrectly; therefore, someone needs to inform the Martignetti bothers that they are not, nor will they ever be, “Preppies.” And I bet can bet the same can be said for a good number of the bar’s patrons. Um, did you take a look at the picture of those two? That alone is enough to make a “true Preppy” pitch a fit. Not only are they not WASPs (and a Preppy is a WASP – period), they are slovenly-looking and greasy – two things a respectable Preppy is not. My point? None, really, except that idiot men looking for “quality” women and vacuous women looking for “future husbands” come in all brands – and FAKE Preppy just happens to one of them.
Paris is certainly rich, but she never went to any sort of school. She went to The Dwight School in New York, dropped out, and got her GED. She is the product of an aristocratic educational system that deliberately congregates all of the “right” people in the “right” schools, even if they do let a few plebes in from time to time to bring the grade point average up. What, you thought she went to the public school down the street?
My response to the “$27 dollar cab ride up to 84th street” was: “Um, take the fucking train, you wankers. My response? “Why the fuck you paying that much? Tell the cabbie to take the FDR, you fool. Don’t pay to get stuck in traffic.” Jessica’s right that these aren’t really “Preppies,” in the sense that they didn’t go to Andover, Groton, Miss What’s-her-name’s or Exeter. Not that NYC private high schools don’t have prestige or whatnot, they’re just not the classic “prep” schools like you get in New England. That being said, I have all sorts of friends from various places who went to either prep schools, NYC private high schools or prestigious private schools in other cities, like Francis Parker in Chicago. And since they’re my friends, they don’t do the masters-of-the-universe thing (else I’d never have gotten to know them b/c I’d have been turned off). I think one reason for this story being a big deal is that they’ve left the UES and Dorrian’s Red Hand and gone downtown, where the hipsters who have just as much money but less bluebloddedness hang out. It’s an anomaly in the neighborhood.
And your point of course stands, that it’s ridiculous to assume someone is smarter just because they went to a “better” school Hell, pretty much the only difference between ‘good’ colleges and ‘mediocre’ colleges is networking. Networking! Because God forbid people would actually want to go to school to be EDUCATED. But instead they choose schools because of their level of ‘prestige’ and their amount of ‘networking.’ Jesus, people in this society make me sick. [not you, Isabel. just rambling.]
I guess I’m confused, Lorelei. If the quality of the education is the same and one school offers better networking, what’s the issue with opting for one with more benefits?
I fondly remember a guy I shared a group house with one semester in college. He once said, “If a girl is good looking and she has a good personality, OF COURSE she’ll marry a guy who’s rich!” Evil fizz, are you that guy?
Not the same thing, bloix. It’s one thing to choose where you’ll be educated for four years in large part based on which of your available options will boost your long term job prospects best. It’s quite another thing to choose who you’ll promise to love for the rest of your life based mainly on who makes the most money.
Lorelei: heh, when I told people I was thinking of transferring because my current Elite Institution Of Higher Learning didn’t have an education major and I’d decided that’s what I wanted to study, people I knew–including people at “lesser-tier” schools–thought I was fucking nuts, closing doors that might otherwise be open to me (like, yes, I am going to have so much trouble getting hired when I offer to teach public school kids, right?). But, I’ve decided to (probably) stay because a) turns out there are opportunities to study education here, and b) one thing my school has that most small liberal arts colleges don’t is an endowment larger than the GDP of several small countries put together, which means it’s actually considerably cheaper for me than most other schools would be, beacuse they can afford to be generous with financial aid (and they like to be, because it boosts their socioeconomic diversity rating. heh).
Evil fizz, are you that guy? Uh, no. A) Not a guy. B) I refer you to Lynn’s post. C) My point is that I’m not sure what objection Lorelei has networking possibilities as a reason for choosing one university over another. Sure, it doesn’t speak to the quality of the education, but it’s definitely in the perks category.
I can honestly say that my choice to leave Haverford for a less prestigious school, despite my A average, was one of the best of my life. Until freshman year I had no idea the ruling class existed, much less how horrible they are. Some days, I wish I could have my innocence back. 🙂
I am really confused about something. “And I used to like pink shirts.” – jill did you mean pink shirts on a guy or pink shirts for yourself? Most women can easily pull off the pink look, but it’s pretty a pretty questionable color for guys. Very very few can pull it off.
essica’s right that these aren’t really “Preppies,” in the sense that they didn’t go to Andover, Groton, Miss What’s-her-name’s or Exeter. Not that NYC private high schools don’t have prestige or whatnot, they’re just not the classic “prep” schools like you get in New England. My college boyfriend (and now best friend) went to Exeter. He also wears pink shirts. And now he’s at Columbia law. Shit. But he’s nice and not a pompous ass, I swear!
I think one reason for this story being a big deal is that they’ve left the UES and Dorrian’s Red Hand and gone downtown, where the hipsters who have just as much money but less bluebloddedness hang out. It’s an anomaly in the neighborhood. No kidding. To be fair, though, they’re in SoHo, which is not exactly hipster central. It’s about as douchey as downtown gets, at least as far as going out is concerned. So while I wish they had stayed uptown, it kind of makes sense.
There are a lot of clubs that are pretty open about admitting women based on their appearance. I find some of the outrage over the elitism of this club, which admits people of both sexes on more or less academically based criteria (give or take some legacy admits) a little out of proportion. This isn’t a club, I don’t think, it’s a bar — and as far as I can tell, there aren’t admissions standards, are there? I mean, anyone can go, and as long as you meet the dress code and it’s not full, they’ll probably let you in. It just happens to be a gathering ground of people who are douchebags. I don’t think anyone is “outraged” over anything — it’s not about the door policy. We just think the people profiled/interviewed sound like vomit-inducing asswipes.
“And I used to like pink shirts.” – jill did you mean pink shirts on a guy or pink shirts for yourself? Both. But I meant for men. A man who can pull off a pink shirt and look good — i.e., not like a total douchebag, and still confident — is a huge turn-on.
Not in my experience, Morningstar. Pink used to be considered a very masculine color, and, to the extent that I’m willing to engage in gender essentialism, I agree.
I guess I’m confused, Lorelei. If the quality of the education is the same and one school offers better networking, what’s the issue with opting for one with more benefits? Because then people think that they’re better than you because they go to a school with more networking. And schools rank themselves higher because of their networking, but claim that it’s the education level. But I don’t hate the institution of academia or anything.
“She is the product of an aristocratic educational system that deliberately congregates all of the “right” people in the “right” schools, even if they do let a few plebes in from time to time to bring the grade point average up” Let’s run further with that: She’s a product of a social, cultural and economic system that worships, runs by and follows the dollar, including all those who are holding it. Thus humanity becomes a commodity bargained for by those who need it and disregarded by those who have it in largess. The entire “Styles” section of the NYT is disgusting mostly because it condones and celebrates the aforementioned social structure.
I’m so glad I didn’t choose to go to Snooty Private Academy when my parents offered. I figured – I had friends at my public school, and I was pretty damn sure that as a (poorer, fatter, non-white) day student I’d get treated like shit. But these aren’t even real preps, so what the fuck ever. Maybe we should set a date and gate-crash, Feministes. (Pink shirts are extremely hot on the right guy.)
What’s next? American Psycho facial treatments? Baronial ivory business cards with raised print? Huey Lewis and the News Greatest Hits CDS?
(Pink shirts are extremely hot on the right guy.) http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2145/douchebag5blij8.jpg ? This just reminded me. I need to add “guys who pop their collars up” to my list of people who need to be firebombed.
Every single person interviewed for this story sounds unintelligent. Yep, good thing they’re hanging out together. They deserve each other.
I also went to an elite university that had a fair amount of folks who went because of and for the connections. The connections never did me any good and I got a much, much better education in HS anyway, so it was a waste for me to attend. I’d have been better off taking a couple years off between HS & college and then attending a state school. I got a full scholarship & felt like I had to attend. I thought and many others did too that I’d be an idiot to pass up a chance at such a great school. I was miserable there & had several bad bouts of depression and ended up doing poorly academically I made both the dean’s list and academic probation. I had never been subject to such snobbery before from wankers like the ones in this article; it gave an an alergy to inherited wealth (I know some fine people who come from money, btw). I hate to sound so whiny about it, but it was a costly mistake for me to attend. That poor decison took a long time to come to terms with. I’m glad to read of a couple others upthread who had the guts to do what suited them better. There are few things in my life, good or bad, that I wish I could redo. This is one of them.
Ron O.: thank you for your story. Like I said upthread, I was considering transferring and while there are a lot of reasons for me not to (including that this year, I was unhappy for a lot of reasons not directly connected to my school, so I haven’t really given it a fair chance) it is oddly nice to have some extra mental ammunition against the voices–in life and in my head–saying “but who TRANSFERS from THERE? to study EDUCATION?”
I’m not sure why this matters, or why I would take responsibility for him, but Mr. Theodore Cleary, while he may have gone to Friends Academy, most certainly did not graduate from there. Weird thing to lie about.
Isabel, this may or may not be useful to you, but I was just talking today to a college freshman who had been thinking about transferring and he described his first semester as “a textbook case of adjustment. But I didn’t think that’s what it was, I was like, ‘No, I’m different. This isn’t just adjustment.’ But now I see that it was.” Okay, it was funnier in person than it is written out. Anyways, and again, this may or may not be relevant to you, but I thought I would just mention it. It’s not unheard of for college freshman to be unhappy but “adjust” and be very happy later.
I don’t think pink is hard for a guy to pull off. I used to stay away from pink, but recently started dabling with it again and I find it to be a really great color to work with. Helps to not be an insufferably vacant twit, of course.
I’m not sure why this matters, or why I would take responsibility for him, but Mr. Theodore Cleary, while he may have gone to Friends Academy, most certainly did not graduate from there. Weird thing to lie about. Not Friends Academy but apparently my little bro went to Westtown School, an old Quaker school (very crunchy/vegan), with this “ladies man.” What a dumb call to be in this article but sounds to me like the Westtown “anti-pink” reputation might be why the author opted to name his previous school.
Am I the only Feminste reader who actually went to a state college because it was what I could afford and my HS GPA wasn’t enough to get me anywhere swanky w/ scholarships? Am I the only one who has siblings who dropped out of high school? Is there anyone who reads this blog who DID drop of out high school? There’s a lot of things I don’t like about Paris Hilton, but academic snobbery trumps her vacuity. Is it because she didn’t APPLY HERSELF? Is it because she squandered her opportunities? Why the hate and disdain, folks? I feel silly for reviving this dead thread to whine, but still. I feel so alone. I can’t be the only person here who didn’t go to an elite school or give up going to an elite school for personal reasons. Where’s all the other plebes?
State schools, both BS (funded by loans and pell grants) and PhD (funded by TA’s and RA’s). One sibling with a BS (private school, full scholarship), one with an MS (state school), and one sibling who didn’t finish his AA and is quite happy, thank you. Somehow I have managed to have a mostly happy and successful life despite the lack of Ivy cred.
I uh…don’t see anything impressive or different. It’s not that I’m clueless, but their attitudes are all typical for a group of people that age who have known eachother for a long time. All I see is the journalist saying “omg let’s laugh and mock them for going to a prestiegous school.” They’ve earned what they’re getting, good on them. Though what is dissappointing is watching someone go to one of these schools and finding satisfaction in running a bar. If your education is extraordinary, then go do extraordinary things.
Am I the only Feminste reader who actually went to a state college because it was what I could afford and my HS GPA wasn’t enough to get me anywhere swanky w/ scholarships? Am I the only one who has siblings who dropped out of high school? Is there anyone who reads this blog who DID drop of out high school? I went to state schools for my BA (UConn) and JD (Michigan). Granted, Michigan was all prestigious and shit, but I certainly didn’t leave UConn with the sense that I was *entitled* to get into Michigan Law. In fact, just the opposite — I kicked ass on my LSATs but for various reasons (basically, being unobsessed by the USN&WR rankings) it caught me by surprise when, during orientation, everybody started talking about what a highly-ranked school it was. I even went to the Dean of Admissions to ask him how I’d gotten in (FTR, great LSATs, decent grades plus amusing essay and interesting pre-law-school career (journalism)).
There’s a lot of things I don’t like about Paris Hilton, but academic snobbery trumps her vacuity. Is it because she didn’t APPLY HERSELF? Is it because she squandered her opportunities? Why the hate and disdain, folks? OK, I’m sorry if my remark about Paris Hilton came off as a put down of people in general who dropped out of high school rather than going to Princeton. I dislike Paris Hilton in particular because she combines having dropped out of high school with having made snobbish remarks putting down people who went to public high schools (as I did, and, well, most people did). Just being an ordinary person who went to a public school like nearly everyone else in the world and didn’t happen to finish is a different sort of thing from disdaining people who graduated from ordinary old public schools instead of being elite enough to, like you, drop out of the private school your parents could afford to pay for. As it happened, I did get the scholarships for a private school, but I had the state school all ready in case that money hadn’t come through. No way my parents could have paid my way otherwise.
My parents went to state schools – and Mom for both undergrad and grad work. And I’m at a state school right now for grad school. And I would have gone to a state school for college as well if I hadn’t lucked out with financial aid (due in no small part to being a minority student at a whitebread Ivy-safety-safety school).
I suppose, though, I shouldn’t be so quick to dump on even Paris Hilton. The way Britney Spears bugged some people when younger (but not really me) because of a particular combination of loudly proclaimed virginity and dressing super sexy, Paris Hilton bugs me because of her own particular combination of not doing much, expecting privileges (like her current appeal to Schwarzenegger to get her off the hook on that sentence for driving without a license), and putting down people who’ve worked harder than she has. But it’s still not fair of me to make her my stock figure to mock.
Thanks Frumious B, zuzu, and Nomie–I was in a huff when I posted that complaint (which is why one should wait a while before posting something on the Net, natch), but in the end I’m glad I posted, to see your replies. Lynn: Ahhh, so that’s the deal on Paris Hilton. Yeah, the hypocrisy is definitely obnoxious. Thanks for explaining (and I don’t think you or anyone else was being overly harsh on her, now that I see what the problem was, really). /reviving dead thread