I guess my question is — who’s next? When do Rush, Ann Coulter, Howard Stern, et al. find themselves without jobs? If the constituency of these people were all 15 year old high school students, I might be able to wrap my head around it, but why are adults listening to this nonsense (and enabling a multi-million dollar industry of disrespectful radio discourse)?
When do Rush, Ann Coulter, Howard Stern, et al. find themselves without jobs? When they attack sports figures instead of politicians. No, seriously. Don’t forget, Rush was shitcanned from Monday Night Football for saying stuff that was mild compared to what he says on the radio, but he said it about a quarterback during an NFL game. Two days later, he got his pink slip.
I am so sick of Imus’ Archie Bunker-wannabe supporters whining about “political correctness,” Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and rappers. First of all, “But all the other kids say it!” stops being an acceptable excuse before junior high. Imus is old enough and experienced enough to know better than to use a slur like this. To steal from my parents, if 50 Cent and Ludacris jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would Imus? Secondly, only perfect people can speak out? So because Jesse Jackson called New York City “Hymietown” 20 some-odd years ago, he can never speak out about anything ever again? Does Al Sharpton’s past make the substance of the complaints any less valid? Third, I didn’t realize that complaining about racist and ethnic slurs being directed at accomplished young people is part of some evil “political correctness” conspiracy. I thought it was standing up against a dessicated bully.
To me, Imus’ crime was that he just isn’t funny. Jason Whitlock wrote an excellent column in today’s Kansas City Star: By Jason Whitlock McClatchy Newspapers (MCT) KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem. You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality. You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor. Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred. The bigots win again. [edited — please don’t post entire articles in comments PLS THX]
When they attack sports figures instead of politicians. No, seriously. Don’t forget, Rush was shitcanned from Monday Night Football for saying stuff that was mild compared to what he says on the radio, but he said it about a quarterback during an NFL game. Two days later, he got his pink slip. That’s a really important observation. Politicians are dangerous – ie ok to attack – because they have the potential (if rarely the inclination) to change the status quo. Sports figures are like society’s little dolls – they (literally) run around (figuratively) performing a very specific role and only very, very rarely step outside of that to make or affect cultural commentary. They’re not a danger to anyone – specifically to the patriarchy – so why would you go and attack a defenseless little doll? That seems very mean of you, etc. HMM. I should really clarify that I’m not saying that sports figures are dolls, but within the mindset that Others pretty much everyone and is mainly focused on maintaining the status quo…that’s my best guess at what sports figures look like from inside that head.
Have to disagree with you on #5, defenestrated. The Rutgers women’s basketball team members aren’t political in the electoral sense, but they are strong, brave, physically accomplished, and play with teamwork and a very high skill level in front of thousands of live spectators and millions on national TV. That’s a powerful political (cultural politics) statement about women, giving the lie to centuries of “delicate flower” myths about women.
That’s a good point, John. In a way, though, it supports my thesis: The Rutgers women weren’t being good little dolls, were they?
Hmm, ok, on the surface my last comment made no sense. I think the issue closet-racists have with this whole thing might partly stem from the cognitive dissonance arising from the complete lack of sense that made, if that itself makes any sense. [OK, I’ve lost myself at this point, so no hard feelings if the answer is no, no it doesn’t make any sense]. This is all sort of un-thought-out, especially since I do have to admit that I’m basically trying to mindread the assholes, so bear with me here: Women are supposed to be nice little dolls and serve their pretty and submissive role. Athletes are supposed to be – more accurately than my previous analogy – rockin little action figures and serve their role of bolstering the ideals of aggressive, domineering masculinity. So how the fuck much sense can it make to these people when the women dolls start mixing roles with the athlete action figures? It’s like putting G.I. Joe in Barbie’s dream corvette or whatever, it just Makes No Sense. And, by extension, is Terribly, Terribly Wrong.
I really, really need to get over my instinct to make a joke just about every time one of my comments gets put in moderation. 1) The chances are hugely in favor of ‘it’s not funny to anyone but me,’ and 2) I really don’t want zuzu to kill/hate me.
“Imus’ interview style, unlike so many others, involves not interrupting his guests constantly and that allows him to get a lot of information out to the audience. It’s a tactic that brings the biggest names to his nationally syndicated program back again and again,” the Web site said. (from the article) You know: it says something seriously pathetic that that is a remarkable enough trait that it sets him -above- the other popular media figures in even that one regard. i mean, talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations!– “he doesn’t actually spit on his guests.” for fuck’s sake.
Yeah, I think Jason Whitlock’s article is that same old, same old. The real issue is the instiitutionalized racism that has created the problems –can we quit blaming the victims already?
I guess my question is — who’s next? my money’s on O’Reilly–more and more lately he’s bearing a strong resemblance to Nicholson in “The Shining.”
also, i think Olbermann wins some kind of special prize if he succeeds in driving him -completely- insane. i do hope so anyway.
It’s nice to know that CBS is less forgiving than some of the Republican presidential prospects when it comes to racist attitudes and comments.
Oh, let’s not celebrate too early. Imus will probably get picked up by some syndicate, or Fox News, at double what CBS was paying him. SOBs like that always land on their feet, primarily because they’re expert at looking out for No. 1.
All this will do is make him more popular and more wealthy in the long run. In a few months or years maybe he’ll resurface, well-paid and just as offensive as ever–after all, that’s why his ratings fly and he gets compensated for it. If Pee Wee Herman can still find work after he gets caught tugging on his dick in a public restroom and gets arrested for child porn, then anything is possible. Americans have very short memories.
Hateful pundit Debbie Schlussel had a different take: He [Don Imus] actually gave them [the Rutgers team members] a moment–actually way more than the standard Warhol-esque 15–that they never would have had. How many losers–let alone, winners–of women’s basketball, even in the WNBA, get a fraction of the attention these women have gotten? Ditto for similar comments by Rutgers women’s coach Stringer, who told NBC’s Brian Williams that she would give up the championship in exchange for not feeling so hurt. But, wait a second, she didn’t win the championship. And yet, she seemed to be enjoying more media glory and exposure than Pat Summitt, the woman whose team actually won. Sorry, but it’s hard to watch these women claim they’re “scarred forever,” when I don’t feel scarred for life. For muscular, masculine women, these girls are pretty soft. Perhaps their team motto should be: Sticks, stones, and names. Here’s the link:
Bitter Scribe- he is probably going to do some “good works” and get a photo spread in Vanity Fair or FHM with some dying children on horses, everyone will cry and he will be back on air. The last few celebrities who slipped the leash followed pretty much that path and are back at work.
When do Rush, Ann Coulter, Howard Stern, et al. find themselves without jobs? When they attack sports figures instead of politicians. I also think that being on television versus radio might be a factor. Based on what I’ve read at Media Matters, it seems that people like O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, John Gibson, et al. say more outrageous stuff on their radio shows than on television. I think it’s harder to get away with stuff on tv — there’s a wider audience, and clips of stupid shit people say can be played back over and over. Things said on the radio just kind of float out into space. It’s just a theory. But my guess is that Imus’s comments about the Rutgers team wouldn’t have garnered as much attention if his radio show hadn’t aired on MSNBC.
Oh, and I was going to add, regarding what Mnemosyne said about Rush being fired for the NFL comment: that comment was made on television, whereas his more outrageous stuff was said on the radio. (Again, just my pet theory.)
For more information about Coach Stringer’s career, and less warmed over bs pulled out of Jason Whitlock’s ass, try: http://www.edgeofsports.com/2007-04-11-236/index.html
So does Charles Barkley now get the same punishment if he insults white people? At least Micheal (correct spelling) Ray Richardson was fired as a basketball coach after making anti-Semetic comments. And NewCompu and bluestocking, what do you mean saying Whitlock’s is “same old, same old?” While what Imus said was heinous, the worst possible people to get their moment in the Sun is Jesse (Hymietown) Jackson and Al (Tawana Brawley hoax, Duke lacrosse) Sharpton.
Neil, A) learn to spell “Semitic.” B) Point? C) Good lordy, if you’re trying to defend this guy on grounds of humor, read this first.
While what Imus said was heinous, the worst possible people to get their moment in the Sun is Jesse (Hymietown) Jackson and Al (Tawana Brawley hoax, Duke lacrosse) Sharpton. What language is this in? Because it sure ain’t English. Hint: noun/verb agreement is your friend. It also helps if the part of the sentence in front of the comma somehow relates to the part of the sentence after the comma.
Sorry, was writing quickly at work. (Ironic, because I usually am much better with grammar and spelling, since it’s my job. The agreement is because I added all to Jesse and had to go back to work and didn’t proofread a blog response as carefully as a story. We all make mistakes). Let me explain so you can merely mock me for my ideas which seem to go against the group. I think what Imus said was totally wrong and uncalled for. But if he’s going to get canned, shouldn’t others who make racial and sexist comments be held to the same standard? And I read the Dave Zinn blog. He reminds me of the kids from Scarsdale who blast rap from their BMWs.
Argh…another late night typo…meant to say added Al to Jesse. And as I stated earlier, Imus’ biggest crime is he just hasn’t been funny in years. When they play some of his bits during other shows on WFAN, I’d say, “This is the best they could come up with?”
Yes, everyone should be held to the same standard regarding racist and sexist comments. I find it interesting that the only time some people think that people of color should be held the the same standard as white people is when white people screw up and say racist and sexist things. The rest of the time, people of color are expected to toe a line that white people insist on moving or making invisible. As for the “same old, same old” for my part I was referencing the tendency by folks in the African-American community to blame, in this instance gangsta culture, for the fact that Don Imus thinks it is okay to say what he said. Whitlock’s article continues the myth that there is no institutionalized racism in the US. His comments also give white people an perfect argument about why there isn’t anything that can be done to help “those people” because it isn’t racism and the system of white privilege that oppresses African-Americans, it is a chosen “lifestyle” based on hip-hop culture. And this is, in my opinion, BS.
That does remind me of something useful I was reading (and I am sorry, I do not remember where because there have been so many posts on this). Someone pointed out that whenever there is an issue involving race, Sharpton and Jackson get trotted out as “representatives of the black community” all over the mainstream media. And they are conveniently set up to be discredited from previous scandals with comments such as NeilC’s. Of course, this may mean there’s not enough tinfoil in my little hat, as I’m picking up conspiracy theories.
I love the “but black people should be held accountable when they say bad things, too!” crap that’s floated up due to this. Because Tim Hardaway didn’t receive ANY flack for his homophobic comments, no way. Americans DO have short attention spans.
Phil Mushnick’s take on the situation: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04132007/news/columnists/brainless_hypocrites_win_again_columnists_phil_mushnick.htm
I actually listened to Imus as a kid when he was on WFAN. After leaving for high school, I made precisely no effort to listen to him or which his show on MSNBC. I outgrew him. I never liked the racist/sexist schtick to begin with and frankly I got tired of waiting through that nonsense for other segments. Even if I liked what else he did, why should have to take the good with the bad? So I voted with my dial and turned him off. I’m not crying for him now. He didn’t belong on MSNBC. No matter how “public affairsy” he got, he was still a shock jock at heart. He didn’t deserve the reflective respectability the MSNBC simulcast gave him. Maybe when the network was in its infancy, but they outgrew him just as I did. I didn’t care if he stayed on radio. Someone else will employ him and I’m not outraged by that. The fact is, there are worse people out there who get away with worse nonsense. Among his proper peer group, Imus isn’t that bad. But he needs to be seen for what he is. A tired radio hack. I find it hard to feel sorry for Imus, but I do wonder why others are held to even lower standards. No corporate sponsor should feel good with ads running on programs of Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, etc. I’d be concerned if this ends with Imus, because there is bigger game out there.
Wow, Phil Mushnik is an idiot, who knew? Does noone else suspect that Imus played the media like a fiddle and they fell for it? Like lemmings over the cliff, Imus introduced the concept of the gansta rap to the discussion and the talking heads started the march to the sea. One problem, because people like Imus, Sharpton and other talking heads have lost most of their credibilty, most of the public didn’t follow and instead decided that Imus had done enough damage to society and he should retire. The media and the talking heads are still walking towards the sea because Imus told them to do it. Is some hip-hop bad? Yes. Is all hip-hop bad? No. Is Sharpton put forward because he is still relevant? No. Is he put forward because he is available on a moment’s notice? Yes. Do columnists center their attention on Sharpton because it is easier than actually thinking? Yes Should Imus have gotten a pass on his own bad behaviour because of the actions of others? To quote my Mom: “we brought you up better than that!” So the answer is NO.
Phil Mushnick’s take on the situation: Neil, instead of citing to entire pieces written by others, why don’t you make an argument yourself? And while you’re doing it, please explain what Tawanna Brawley or Hymietown has to do with what Imus said about this team.
Zuzu, I like posting columns to give other takes on a situation. If I had posted a column that echoed the group here, or my grammatical mistakes and typos last night had supported Imus’ firing, would I have been jumped on for them? I doubt it. To explain my view in a more logical way than last night: What Imus said was hurtful and wrong. He should be punished, not sure if he should be fired. C. Vivian Stringer and her players can say whatever they want about the situation, since they were personally involved. If they called for his firing, I would have no problem with it, since it affected their lives. Sharpton and Jackson are nothing but race baiters, who should’ve been cut out of this situation but saw a spotlight to glom. I can’t remember if Jackson apologized for his statement, and I’m sure Sharpton has never apologized to all those he slandered in the Tawana Brawley case. Plus he got involved in the Duke lacrosse case, and now that the players were found innocent has not said word one about it.
And while you’re doing it, please explain what Tawanna Brawley or Hymietown has to do with what Imus said about this team. It’s classic smoke and mirrors. By discrediting two of the more vocal critics, the ignorant idiots who can’t understand all the fuss over what Imus said hope to discredit the complaint. If it were women leading the criticism, they would have thrown in the “humorless feminazi” meme. There should be no sympathy for Imus. He made a lucrative living dancing on the edge. He is not a victim because he danced over that edge and landed with a splat. Live by the trash, die by the trash.
And to add: The NABJ thought he should be fired, too. I give that organization more weight than Sharpton/Jackson.
I like posting columns to give other takes on a situation. Well, just cluttering up my comments section with entire columns or posting a link without any sort of commentary about what kind of, you know, point you’re trying to make with it isn’t really going to fly. It adds nothing to the discussion, forces editing or scrolldowns, and doesn’t do much to convince anyone. Is whipping out the Phil Mushnick supposed to be a trump card or something? If you want to make the same point that the columnist does, fine, but do it in your own words. And we do have that handy link button in the comments window so you don’t have to break the margins with huge links.
I think what Imus said was totally wrong and uncalled for. But if he’s going to get canned, shouldn’t others who make racial and sexist comments be held to the same standard? I’m starting to think that the people who believe that Jesse Jackson’s career didn’t suffer one whit from the whole “Hymietown” thing must be very, very young. Before that time, Jesse Jackson was a politician of national importance. He was a viable presidential candidate in both 1984 (where he came in 3rd behind Mondale and Hart) and in 1988, where he was basically considered a shoo-in for the Democratic nomination since he had the most delegates. And then he called New York “Hymietown,” and he lost everything. He was immediately dropped by all of his delegates. He basically had to go into hiding and rebuild everything, because everything that he’d done up to that point (the Rainbow Coalition, etc.) was tainted by that remark. But now, twenty years later, the fact that he’s a minor spokesman for a particular segment of the black community means that he’s as powerful as ever. Seriously, NeilC, did you know ANY of what I posted above, or are you just parroting what you’ve heard on right-wing websites and radio? Were you at least over the age of 10 in 1988 so you have some memory of how powerful a Democrat Jackson used to be, and how far he’s fallen since then? If all of the above is news to you, Wikipedia is your friend.
Sharpton and Jackson are nothing but race baiters, who should’ve been cut out of this situation but saw a spotlight to glom. I can’t remember if Jackson apologized for his statement, and I’m sure Sharpton has never apologized to all those he slandered in the Tawana Brawley case. Plus he got involved in the Duke lacrosse case, and now that the players were found innocent has not said word one about it. You’re going to have to support this “nothing but race baiters” statement. Because, seriously, if all the evidence you have for Jackson is a 20-year-old comment, you’re going to have to do better. Also: the Duke players weren’t “found innocent.” The charges were dropped, which is a very different thing. Also, the fact that the charges were dropped has nothing to do with whether the accuser was lying. But even if she wasn’t raped, even if she made the whole thing up, there is no question that she and the other dancer were taunted with racial epithets at that house and that one of these guys sent creeptastic emails — this has all been admitted and corroborated. So I’m really not sure what Sharpton has to apologize for, given that there are a lot of racial issues involved in this case regardless of whether this woman was raped. The bigger problem with the media treating Jackson and Sharpton as the go-to-guys for racial issues is that on this case, the lazy go-to option was used instead of getting, say, a black woman to discuss why black women would find these comments particularly vile. Because they were both racist AND sexist, and in a combination that really requires a response from a black woman.
Seriously, NeilC, did you know ANY of what I posted above, or are you just parroting what you’ve heard on right-wing websites and radio? Were you at least over the age of 10 in 1988 so you have some memory of how powerful a Democrat Jackson used to be, and how far he’s fallen since then?>>> I never listen to right-wing radio nor do I visit their Web sites, unless I personally know the person. I’m actually a centerist who doesn’t follow party lines, which seems to tick off both sides an argument when I don’t agree with them, whether it’s here or The Dawn Patrol. I was 22-23 in 1988, but wasn’t following politics then as much, I was looking for a job, being fresh out of college. I surrender to your logic Zuzu and Mnemosyne, you are both much smarter than I am in this subject.
zuzu, Can we nominate someone for this? I would love to see Queen Latifah hold forth on the Imus thing. 🙂
NeilC, given your comments in this thread (I’m talking purely style/formatting issues), you may want to take a look at this post on Pandagon. Hint: the blockquote tag is your friend.
Oh, don’t pull that. You got disagreed with and shown you were wrong, big fucking deal. Flounce on out of here entirely if you’re going to stamp your little feetsies and whine that you’re not being catered to properly.
It’s a little known fact that Dana Owens was crowned Queen Latifah, ruler of New Jersey (and Delaware), in an underground ceremony by Queen Elizabeth II in 1991.
It’s classic smoke and mirrors. By discrediting two of the more vocal critics, the ignorant idiots who can’t understand all the fuss over what Imus said hope to discredit the complaint. oooh! you’re trying to oppress Me by saying that! help,help, I’m being oppressed!–ooh, shiny thing. What about the penguins starving in Antartica, huh? How come you never talk about THAT. Hypocrite.
If I had posted a column that echoed the group here, or my grammatical mistakes and typos last night had supported Imus’ firing, would I have been jumped on for them? ‘”So, IF you had a brother, would HE like herring?” That was philosophy.’
belledame22 — But I send MONEY to the starving penguins. Just because they don’t use currency for food doesn’t make me a bad person!
Oh, don’t pull that. You got disagreed with and shown you were wrong, big fucking deal. Flounce on out of here entirely if you’re going to stamp your little feetsies and whine that you’re not being catered to properly. >>> When I’m shown I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. But all I see if a difference of opinion and it’s just not worth keeping an argument going.
I was 22-23 in 1988, but wasn’t following politics then as much, I was looking for a job, being fresh out of college. I surrender to your logic Zuzu and Mnemosyne, you are both much smarter than I am in this subject. Well, I wouldn’t call it “logic” so much as “facts,” but you’re welcome.
Somebody needs to clue Neil and the authors of his various columns that the people who are responsible for purchasing the most hip hop are young affluent white males. Women do not buy as much rap: as shocking as this might sound there are black women who listen to r+b, soul, rock music, folk, and gospel. It is not automatic that all black women like hip-hop or listen only to gangsta or listen to it with the fervor that men do. Hmmm, I wonder why that could be?
Imus should not have said what he said. It was weird and uncalled for and I don’t think he fully grasped the significance of it when he said it, especially since references to “nappy hair” generally characterize discrimination of darker-skinned blacks by lighter-skinned blacks. The purpose applying a derisive context to “nappy-headed” seems to stratification among blacks, rather than reinforcing the subjugation of blacks to whites, as is the purpose of most traditional epithets. It seems more bizarre than malicious. I am sure there is some outrage over the “Hos” part, but calling someone a “ho” does not get you fired from talk radio. In any case, firing Imus is no great coup for anybody. The guy has raised millions to help sick kids, he did a lot for authors of books he liked, and his show was one of very few large-audience talk radio shows that was not a hostile forum for Democratic politicians.
Yeah, and I’m sure he didn’t kick his dog either. Big fucking deal. I for one won’t miss him (although I think of disk jockeys in general as one step above static in terms of what I want to hear on the radio).