In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Do You Have To Be So Mean?

(Note: Update below the fold.)

Nubian falls out of love with the BBC over an article that–well, I mean, let’s just take it from the title through the subtitle on down. Just to clarify something up front: Normally, portions of a blockquote appearing in bold indicate emphasis I’ve added; here, however, I am keeping the bolded text from the original:

Black women ‘also cause splits’

Black women are “hugely responsible” for the family breakdown which fuels crime, MPs have been told.

Camila Batmanghelidjh, of the charity Kid’s Company, said men were usually seen as the “irresponsible” ones who got girls pregnant and “walked off”.

But black women were also to blame as they had a culture of rejecting men and being “cruel” towards them, she said.

Nubian’s commenters pick right up on the racism and do an excellent job of tearing it apart. As Kevin points out, “If women would just be nicer” is one of the oldest MRA arguments in the book. Here, it’s just been married to “Sisters are a little too strong and sassy,” for a fun, new, racist twist. Gag.

No comment thread would be complete without someone popping up to damn everyone for daring to question authority, however. In this case it’s a reader who goes by WestEndGirl (see comment #24), and the emphasis below is mine:

However, and this is a HUGE however, Camilla Batmanghelidjh knows more about its effect on children and particularly BEM children than you ever will. She works in the toughest areas, with the most damaged children and has personally helped 000s of them. She deals with the results of social breakdown every day and wants to protect children from harm, that is where she is coming from. For you to call her a clown because you disagree with her point of view on this issue just demeans you and shows your ignorance.

I want a Javascript that autotranslates phrases like “you’re showing your ignorance” into “quit assailing your betters,” because make no mistake, that is exactly what it means. We can call it “TRexify.”

Here’s why I disagree with Batmanghelidjh’s point of view, by the way: Because it is unsupported by any data whatsoever. Oh! The House of Commons got the data that more black families are single-parent than white ones–57% versus 25%–but there’s nothing to imply causality between those mean ol’ sisters and single parent status. And as someone who’s heard all the variants of “Quit being such a bitch” all her life, most of them being delivered by know-it-alls at times when the single most effective, life-affirming, powerful thing I could possibly choose to do was to get off my knees, quit apologizing for my existence, and start being a bitch, I’m, what’s the word?–Skeptical. Hugely.

Again (with the notable exception above), I think Nubian’s readers do great deconstruction here, so go forth and savor. If you participate, please do so respectfully; I don’t want another half-dozen WestEndGirls over there and the guilt of knowing I sent ’em. Cut your guest-blogger a break, here.

UPDATE: Just wanted to highlight a few comments here. First, Betsy’s right that despite my poor phrasing above, there’s nothing “new” about crackpot theories like these:

Sadly, there’s nothing new about it. This charming bit of horseshit has been around (in the US, anyway) since well before the Moynihan report caused a furor in the mid-1960s by helpfully explaining that black women are castrating, matriarchal bitches and that THAT’s the reason that there’s such a problem with black people and poverty. Cause it couldn’t be the discrimination, no siree. It’s the matriarchy and the castration.

When I wrote “Here, it’s just been married to ‘Sisters are a little too strong and sassy,” for a fun, new, racist twist,’ I was going for a play on the sort of language you read in fashion writing. This was a stupid maneuver on my part because the risk is that it will be read literally, when, literally, it’s wrong. So consider “new” redacted. That’s what I get for a sloppy snark attempt.

Second and more generally: It’d be nice if discussions about race issues could happen without the first reaction by white folks being to question a person of color’s anger: “Why get mad at the BBC?” is so demonstrably not the point that, frankly, I’m bummed out to see it raised here, especially within the first dozen comments. Besides, as Betsy, or as I like to think of her, “the person who should have written this post,” notes:

I would add that their headlines are reprehensible – they’re stating it as fact: “Black women ‘also cause splits.’” That’s an implicit endoresement of the study if ever I’ve seen one.

There were any number of other ways to have headlined the piece without giving that implicit endorsement, including the obvious “Black women alleged to ‘also cause splits.'” So, yes, I think a little criticism of the BBC is certainly called for; more importantly, I think focusing on Nubian’s disgust, instead of the issue Nubian is actually disgusted about, is really not helpful.

Besides, if we can’t knock the Olde Guarde Media, blogging is so over. What’ll we do all day, post pictures? Talk about how our partners/friends/family just don’t understand us? Have the Friday Random Ten every day? Post our “What Kind Of Vegetable Are You?” quiz results? See? It’s a losing proposition. Just let us keep picking on the people who get paid to commit random acts of journalism, and all will be happy in blogland again.


47 thoughts on Do You Have To Be So Mean?

  1. Here, it’s just been married to “Sisters are a little too strong and sassy,” for a fun, new, racist twist.

    Sadly, there’s nothing new about it. This charming bit of horseshit has been around (in the US, anyway) since well before the Moynihan report caused a furor in the mid-1960s by helpfully explaining that black women are castrating, matriarchal bitches and that THAT’s the reason that there’s such a problem with black people and poverty. Cause it couldn’t be the discrimination, no siree. It’s the matriarchy and the castration.

  2. The thing I didn’t get (maybe I missed a comment?) was what this has to do with the goodness or badness of the BBC. It was just reportage on a bunch of racist bullshit – what’s wrong with that? If the article didn’t give any kind of perspective on reality it’s lazy-ass reporting, but still doesn’t mean the BBC endorses any of this. Or am I missing something?

  3. Actually one problem with the “sassy and strong black women are the problem with black families” argument is that, to the extent which African-American women may very well be stronger and sassier than women of other races may not be a cause of family break-down but rather an effect. If X and Y correlate, it may be that X causes Y, Y causes X or X and Y both have a common cause. In this case, perhaps if African-American women are stronger and sassier than women of other races in this country, it may be caused by rather than a cause of broken families in the African-American community. Certainly, um, slavery and de facto slavery under the sharecropping system were, um, not condusive to having stable families (and slavery isn’t ancient history folks … and family destroying discrimination continues to this day) … so it would be natural that African-American women would have to be stronger than their, e.g., white counterparts.

    And ya know … the fact is the same people who complain that “black women are too strong and sassy” would, if they thought black women were no stronger or sassier than white women, would be complaining about “black women not adapting to situations that demand they be strong” … sorry to sound like a Likudnik talking about anti-Zionism as a cover for anti-Semitism here, but with people who are looking for an excuse to pick on you, no matter what you do, you cannot win.

    Personally, I think if African-American women are stronger and sassier than women of other races, that means women of other races in this country need to learn something from their African-American sisters!

  4. Black women ‘also cause splits’

    Am I the only one who read this and thought “what, racists aren’t happy enough to blame everything else on teh blacks and teh gays and teh non-Christians — they gotta go and blame black women for split ends too?” ?

  5. Am I the only one who read this and thought “what, racists aren’t happy enough to blame everything else on teh blacks and teh gays and teh non-Christians — they gotta go and blame black women for split ends too?” ?

    I read it and thought, Yeeeeeesh. Somebody’s slip is showing.

  6. I’m with Sarah – why should the BBC blamed for reporting something newsworthy?

    I imagine it is a frustration similar to the ones I read expressed by white feminists when this or that other bullshit study comes out, i.e. “Why’d they have to legitimize it by giving it press?” That sort of thing–you know it isn’t really the paper or media outlet that’s to blame, but it still makes you growl.

  7. DAS – I think one other problem is that the “black women are strong and sassy” meme is as much a stereotype as anything else, and can be very damaging to black women in a lot of ways (e.g., the belief that somehow black women can “handle” more work/stress/damage than other women; the idea that they should always be the one who holds everything together; etc.). It also helps cover up the fact that black women die younger than white women.

  8. I’m with Sarah – why should the BBC blamed for reporting something newsworthy?

    I agree with Ilyka’s response to this question, and I would add that their headlines are reprehensible – they’re stating it as fact: “Black women ‘also cause splits.’” That’s an implicit endoresement of the study if ever I’ve seen one.

  9. I imagine it is a frustration similar to the ones I read expressed by white feminists when this or that other bullshit study comes out, i.e. “Why’d they have to legitimize it by giving it press?” That sort of thing–you know it isn’t really the paper or media outlet that’s to blame, but it still makes you growl.

    Particularly when the reportage is unquestioning on its face. The BBC has a pretty decent rep as an outlet that doesn’t report without questioning, but this one seems to have slipped through the cracks. In which case, well, the BBC kind of is to blame.

  10. “Why’d they have to legitimize it by giving it press?”

    Bill O’Reilly was on Oprah today. Did anybody fall out of love with her, too?

  11. Bill O’Reilly was on Oprah today. Did anybody fall out of love with her, too?

    That’s a crap comparison, unless Oprah sat quietly and let him describe people like, well, Oprah as abominations before God and country.

  12. unless Oprah sat quietly and let him describe people like, well, Oprah as abominations before God and country

    She was surprisingly quiet and unjudgemental. He made some of his usual nutty statements, and she let them slide, for the most part. I was quite surprised, but I don’t watch Oprah, so I don’t know if she treats everyone this politely (a la Larry King).

  13. Plus, some of us were never in love with Oprah in the first place.

    I have an enormous amount of respect for her sheer acumen, and I feel as though she and her demographic are unfairly targeted for a lot of thinly-veiled disgust with women’s interests and intelligence (see: book-club). However, the woman’s marketing a public ego approximately the size of Big Sky Country, and the Madonna thing just kind of made my head hurt a whole lot.

  14. Plus, some of us were never in love with Oprah in the first place.

    I never quite understood the hype, either. She doesn’t seem much different from Donahue to me.

  15. She was surprisingly quiet and unjudgemental. He made some of his usual nutty statements, and she let them slide, for the most part. I was quite surprised, but I don’t watch Oprah, so I don’t know if she treats everyone this politely (a la Larry King).

    That is surprising. I’ve mostly heard about involving people she’s not much at odds with, Jonathan Franzen and James Frey excepted. She does softball things like, “No, I really don’t think that being a multimillionaire makes an international adoption go smoother.”

  16. never quite understood the hype, either. She doesn’t seem much different from Donahue to me.

    Ummm,,, except that he’s a standard-issue old white guy and she’s really really not.

    I’m not a fan of Oprah, she seriously gets on my nerves, but people forget that there was absolutely nothing like her in the business she’s in before she got there. That would be what the hype was about.

    Where she is now is entirely too bad, but when her show first aired it was like nothing else.

  17. that would be “billionaire celebrities,” i meant.

    i dunno. i think she’s got a lot to recommend her, still, but i also don’t exactly think it’s out of line to suggest she may have a wee touch o’ the megolomania her own fine self; i don’t think anyone (with the possible exception of J.K. Rowling, who basically hit the literary equivalent of the jackpot) who “makes it” to that level doesn’t.

  18. does anyone else loathe the word “sassy,” p.s.?

    Yes, unless it’s referring to the now-defunct magazine (Original Version, not the later Sell-Out Version).

  19. What a completely one sided commentary. Since you posted this after the direct source quote of the issue of lower marriage ratees of caribbean blacks how could you state that there are “no facts” on the ground?

    While the BBC title and the e-mail completely overblew the actual quote in the text, the quote was specific to a certain subset of women. Therefore this continuous “all black women must be..” argument is false since such an argument was never offered in the article.

    Also references to slavery in this case may or may not be relevant since there is no history of plantation systems in London. Also the population there is, relative to the US black population, new. This does not mean that there are not systemic issues at work. In fact no one is saying that there are NOT systemic issues at work. The question is whether or not some black women have a hand in the issues affecting thier male children. Simple. If there is, how does it negate the systemic issues? It does not. Nor does the existence of systemic issues negate the personal responsibility of black mothers (and fathers). That one is unable to grasp that concept is a sign of ideological immaturity.

  20. “The minute the adolescent boy begins to look slightly like a male and behave like a male, often the mother wants that young male banished from the house. A hate relationship often develops.”

    Gee, I went through that and I’m not even black. What could this possibly mean? Could it be that being black and being kind of a fucked-up mom are two different things?

  21. Again (with the notable exception above), I think Nubian’s readers do great deconstruction here, so go forth and savor. If you participate, please do so respectfully; I don’t want another half-dozen WestEndGirls over there and the guilt of knowing I sent ‘em. Cut your guest-blogger a break, here.

    How arrogant! So glad we dumb folks gets deconstruction. How about this, people are “getting” deconstruction” and moving above and beyond it. There is more to theory than Derrida!

  22. Second and more generally: It’d be nice if discussions about race issues could happen without the first reaction by white folks being to question a person of color’s anger

    I was at a Mass politics blog today, and Kerry Healey’s campaign came up, and this one young male conservative Democrat completely dismissed the idea that she’s being racist just because she’s trying to suggest that black men are criminals and she’s implying her opponent’s a rapist or rapist lover and she’s sending campaign workers who happen to have shaved heads to his house. And people were getting pissed with him, and he shot back something like you’re sore winners, your candidate’s going to win, why are you so bitter. So apparently there’s not much of anything that could happen that would justify anyone getting mad, or thinking that the issues involved are going to have an effect long after Election Day.

  23. does anyone else loathe the word “sassy,” p.s.?

    Yeah, let me first say that I hate that word. I hate being referred to as “sassy”. Most people get away with being called “sarcastic”, or “energetic” or any other thing in the world. Balck women get to be “sassy”. Nice. Who exactly are we “sassing”? It’s a word loaded with an firm belief in a terrible power structure.

    Personally, I think if African-American women are stronger and sassier than women of other races, that means women of other races in this country need to learn something from their African-American sisters!

    I know this was probably supposed to be a compliment. But it’s not. It’s dragging out old dead stereotypes and painting them a rosy color. Stereotypes are harmful, regardless of the spin you try to put on them.

  24. I’m with Sarah – why should the BBC blamed for reporting something newsworthy?

    Because the BBC didn’t just report, they endorsed a study as fact. There’s a big difference and journalistic standards (if there are any anymore) demand that reporting remain objective and make such clear by using such qualifiers as “According to…” or “A study says…” or “…the alleged murderer” or “Jane Smith said,…” In the good old days, a reporter was expected to find a rebut to every ‘hot story’ or in other words ‘get the story inside the story’. Not so these days, too much work I’d imagine.

    And this is just my conjecture, but one I’ve leaned to for awhile; since a large demographic will neither bring suit for defamation or libel, nor can they make claim of direct loss, the journalists will prattle as they please, usually down the Road a’la Cash and not the Boulevard of the Truth.

    I go now and read Nubian.

  25. Why is it newsworthy? It’s some government commission holding a hearing, they probably have 10 a day that don’t get covered. The only reason it’s newsworthy is because some woman who advises the leader of one of the major parties stood up and said something crazy. Maybe even potentially illegal under the No Inciting Racial Hatred law. If that’s not the angle then there’s not much newsworthy about it.

  26. Yeah I agree with the “sassy” thing, it reminds me of the discussion (I think it was on this board or perhaps Pandagon) about the word “exotic” – same issue. They are sort of code for “nonwhite woman backhanded compliment” if you ask me.

  27. Maybe if Britain enforced equal pay laws so that black men didn’t make 65 pence on the white male pound, African- and Caribbean-British families would be under less stress and become less fractured.

  28. MASRes said, I guess I’m a fool as I didn’t read the BBC article and assumed they were quoting some god awful ‘study’, but now I see it was only someone standing up and making statement (equivalent to testimony in America I assume) during a commission. Its wose than I thought.

  29. I would add that their headlines are reprehensible – they’re stating it as fact: “Black women ‘also cause splits.’” That’s an implicit endoresement of the study if ever I’ve seen one.

    It’s a crap article, I agree, but I don’t think the headline’s actually an endorsement of the thesis.

    BBC style is to put allegations in quotes in headlines. Headline-quotes at the BBC usually aren’t literal quotes, in other words — they’re an indication that the quotated claim is someone else’s.

    On the BBC front page right now, for instance, are articles like “Hunting ‘has conservation role'” and “Sri Lanka truce ‘security threat.'” In each case, the BBC is reporting someone else’s claim without vouching for it.

  30. ‘I imagine it is a frustration similar to the ones I read expressed by white feminists when this or that other bullshit study comes out, i.e. “Why’d they have to legitimize it by giving it press?”’

    Becuase the BBC has an obligation under its charter to cover Parliament, and this woman was talking to a select committee? Even if if were desirable for them to ignore things they disaprove of that go on in parliament, they wouldn’t be able to do it.

    I would add that their headlines are reprehensible – they’re stating it as fact: “Black women ‘also cause splits.’” That’s an implicit endoresement of the study if ever I’ve seen one.

    This is idiotic. ‘Also cause splits’ is in quotes to make the reader aware that they are someone elses views. This is standard journalistic practice. Just look at the BBC front page:

    Hunting ‘has conservation role’
    Global warming ‘threat to growth’
    Patients denied ‘blindness’ drug
    Bush enters Cheney ‘torture row’
    Sri Lanka truce ‘security threat’
    Londoners ‘biggest fans of 4x4s’
    Clock change ‘would save lives’
    UK house prices ‘nearly tripled’

    Some of you might now be thinking the BBC is a really politically charged campaigning organisation which just happens to have a very disparate agenda, but that’s not the case. It’s just a technique used to report others contested views on hunting, global warming, truces, house values, whether drugs cure blindness, and so on in a headline.

    The quotes get dropped where the headline is factual: “South Park defends Irwin sketch”, or not contested: “Carbon monoxide killed children”.

  31. As a non strong and sassy black woman, I have to admit I am sick and tired of black women being blamed solely for family break up. I have to admit my hypothesis is that it is poverty that is the problem, because many women of all sorts of races are ‘sassy'(i.e, not bowing at the altar of OMG, he has a penis!)

  32. To some extent, “sassy” is an “oh how cute you are when you’re mad” word for women in general (since I’ve heard it applied to white women as well, but never any sort of man). But I suppose it gets used on you even more if you aren’t white. It basically seems to mean “outspoken, but of a much lower status than me, and therefore not to be taken too seriously.”

  33. Nancy Tanner’s “Matrifocality in Indonesia and Africa and Among Black Americans” (In Michelle Rosaldo and Louise Lamphere, eds., Women, culture and society. Stanford: Stanford University Press.) was written in large part as a counter to Moynihan’s ideas. This is the paper which resulted in many anthropologists, and textbooks, changing their definition of matrifocality to the one Tanner offered.

  34. Lynn Gazis-Sax said:
    To some extent, “sassy” is an “oh how cute you are when you’re mad” word for women in general (since I’ve heard it applied to white women as well, but never any sort of man). But I suppose it gets used on you even more if you aren’t white. It basically seems to mean “outspoken, but of a much lower status than me, and therefore not to be taken too seriously.”

    Coincidentally, I blogged a rant a while back about the word ‘feisty’…which was sparked by another BBC headline (which wasn’t in quotes). In their attempts to create short and pithy headlines, they do make some missteps. While ‘sassy’ has a slightly different bouquet from ‘feisty’ — more ‘overaggressive’ than infantilized — they have a lot in common. I’ve heard them applied to gay men on occasion, but usually only to girls and women.

  35. Becuase the BBC has an obligation under its charter to cover Parliament, and this woman was talking to a select committee? Even if if were desirable for them to ignore things they disaprove of that go on in parliament, they wouldn’t be able to do it.

    It’s not a question of it being “desirable” for them to not cover things they “disapprove of,” it’s the fact that it’s not especially newsworthy. If every single thing that goes on in every single committee of Parliament as well as the main chambers is documented exhaustively by the BBC, that’s one thing. But if, as is the case here, most of what happens isn’t documented at all, anything else that happened that day was omitted but this made the cut for some reason while most of the other happenings were ignored, that’s a little starnge. If this had happened here, it would only be newsworthy in the context of “Bizarre story out of Washington today. Senior advisor invited to “testify” before Congress stood up and launched into a jaw-droppingly bizarre tirade that left observers offended, scratching their heads and wondering why senior officials are associated with such a loon, and hoping no tax dollars are being wasted.” Or words to that effect.

  36. “Sassy” is a word you would use to describe a CHILD with a “sassy mouth.” As in, “don’t sass me.”

    Applied to an adult, it is infantilizing, and easily taken as “uppity,” even if that’s not the intent. When they want to say, “doesn’t put up with bullshit,” why not just say “strong?” Or better, assertive? Confident? Independent?

    But black women were also to blame as they had a culture of rejecting men and being “cruel” towards them, she said.

    Maybe “rejecting” because she doesn’t want a man who needs her to be his mama? That’s not worthy of blame, except to blame the men who either 1) won’t grow the fuck up, and/or 2) can’t deal with a woman who expects the father of her child(ren) to be a responsible parent. That’s not something exclusive to black women, either.

    Maybe it’s because I’m not black and I’m not a racist like Camila Batmanwhatever, but I’ve never heard or seen shit about black women being “cruel” towards men any more than any other group of women. That just sounds plain stoopid.

    P.S. Hi Ilyka! 🙂

  37. Applied to an adult, it is infantilizing, and easily taken as “uppity,” even if that’s not the intent. When they want to say, “doesn’t put up with bullshit,” why not just say “strong?” Or better, assertive? Confident? Independent?

    Well, because then it wouldn’t be insulting. How about, “strident?” That one hasn’t been out much lately.

    Maybe it’s because I’m not black and I’m not a racist like Camila Batmanwhatever, but I’ve never heard or seen shit about black women being “cruel” towards men any more than any other group of women. That just sounds plain stoopid.

    I’ve seen it, but only in the realm of stereotype. Like other commenters have said, it’s probably tied to the “shrew” archetype. It’s perhaps also an underhanded way of resolving racist fears of black male and female sexuality, and a way for racist people to reassure themselves that black people have no potential for intimate cooperation.

  38. Applied to an adult, it is infantilizing, and easily taken as “uppity,” even if that’s not the intent. When they want to say, “doesn’t put up with bullshit,” why not just say “strong?” Or better, assertive? Confident? Independent?

    those are stereotypes that have always been associated with black women as justification for our social status.

  39. I mailed Nubian that article because I believe that an anti-male vibe is prevalent in society, and it does prevent fatherhood but that it is not exclusive to black people. Yes MRA’s are starting to influence the msm and the bbc is admitting liberal bias, until now I have never seen the bbc touch on misandry, when they finally do its black women only?

    That’s an angle feminists will miss, so bann me or whatever but I think its fucked up.

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