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Note to Lauren: DTMFA

Ms. Lauren, I know you love your boy Keith as much as I love me some Anderson, but I think it’s time to let him go:

To quote:

Paris Hilton claims she was punched in the face yesterday morning at a nightclub in Hollywood [pause] ‘Course she’s had worse things happen to her face …

And we all know what he’s talking about.

There’s a lot to say about this, and I’m not really sure where to start. First is the idea of humiliation, even in consensual sexual activity. Paris Hilton is about as “empowered” as a person can get — she’s rich, white, American, (in)famous, etc etc. Her sexual actions have been, by all accounts, fully consensual. I didn’t see her notorious video, but have certainly heard about it, and it sounds like she was enjoying herself.

And yet having someone ejaculate on her face is “worse” than being punched.

What’s going on when having male body fluid on a female face is seen as inherently demeaning and aggressive? What’s going on when consensual sexual activities which don’t cause physical pain are deemed “worse” than being painfully physically assaulted?

I’m not going to dispute the relative truth of the idea underlying what Keith argues. A lot of people do construct a man ejaculating on a woman’s face as a greater humiliation than a punch. And despite that (or, more likely, because of it), it’s a staple of hetero porn. Ejaculate soils her; having that ejaculate in her vagina may dirty or contaminate her, but having it on her face humiliates and assaults her. And that humiliation and violence is negatively eroticised — that is, it’s erotic because it’s something so humiliating that she couldn’t possibly enjoy it, unless she’s a complete whore. This is a far-reaching eroticism, too — any casual consumer of mainstream porn can probably tell you that the “money shot” is a basic requirement these days, not a narrow preference ghettoized into fetish sites. It’s how your average porno ends. The humiliation is what makes it hot. It intrinsically ties sexual pleasure to humiliation. It didn’t happen in a vacuum, and was certainly encouraged by real men’s desires, but it also serves in constructing those desires.

There’s a fine line between mainstream, consensual porn and the kind of overtly violent rape porn that Punkass Marc wrote about a while back (major trigger warning). That should give even the most pro-porn among us pause.

Now, I’m not entirely “anti-porn,” and nor am I “pro-porn” (but I’m certainly not neutral on the subject, either). I don’t support wide bans on pornography, but I do think that pornography, in its current incarnation, is exceedingly harmful to women. I’m with Amanda in the idea that porn is more a symptom of patriarchy than a cause of the disease (and no, I’m not looking to bring the 500+ comment shitstorm at Pandagon over here, so if you have issues with other aspects of Amanda’s post, leave comments at her place). I’m not sure that, absent patriarchy, porn would remain harmful. I’d like to think that pictures of naked people, or of people having sex, could still be erotic even if there wasn’t a disempowered sex class for sexual activity to be carried out on. And I also think that if we completely got rid of porn tomorrow, patriarchy would almost definitely continue on its merry way.

But porn does matter, for our sex lives and for our daily interactions. Lauren’s comment at Pandagon really resonated with me in that regard:

I once dated a guy for a long while who had an extreme dislike for porn — wouldn’t watch it, didn’t like it. I could breathe in the bedroom knowing he wasn’t bringing in any plasticized, violent shit in there with him.

I can relate. And it’s not because I think that naked people are bad, or because I personally hate porn (confession: I’ve looked at it, and gotten off on it); it’s because, as someone who’s viewed “mainstream” porn, I’ve found it impossible to ignore the deep levels of woman-hatred in it. Porn doesn’t create the woman-hatred, but it certainly replays it and feeds into it, and does so in a forum which is already taboo and therefore in a position to display that hatred more graphically. Men who don’t watch porn are a relief; when I find out that someone I’m seeing does watch porn, it always puts me a little bit on edge. A lot of porn, it seems, along with many social conservatives, places sex firmly in the category of “dirty,” and specifically as something that women are dirtied by. The difference, of course, is that porn-creaters embrace its dirtiness, while the social conservatives warn us about it. You don’t hear a whole lot of abstinence-only education programs lecturing men that every time they have sex, they’re giving away petals on their precious flower. You don’t see a whole lot of porn eroticising the degradation of men (save for in a few fetish communities, and on several sites catering to gay men — but it should be pointed out that the eroticisation of degrading the “bottom” in gay porn is at least in part erotic because you’re treating him like a woman). The assumption that women are degraded by sex — and especially by male-dominated sex acts — is inherent in both world views.

And this is why Olberman’s comment bothered me: because he’s buying into that same paradigm, using it to slut-shame Paris, and through that reminding all women that our sexual status is more valuable than our physical safety. Something that makes us “whores,” even if it’s consensual and not painful, is worse than something which leaves us physically bruised. The fact that this view isn’t uncommon — and was used as a cheap joke on a “progressive” television segment — speaks volumes.

Thanks to Jessica for the link.


66 thoughts on Note to Lauren: DTMFA

  1. Did you also see the text at the bottom of that clip? “A slut and battery.” Because, you know, being hit in the face isn’t really important, and is certainly trivial compared to being a woman who enjoys sex.

    I’m not a fan of Paris Hilton’s, but that doesn’t mean an assault against her is deserved or that it should be trivialized due to her sexual choices in the past.

    I’ve heard that money shots have become a staple partly because, when a man ejaculates inside a woman’s vagina or mouth, the viewer doesn’t get to see it, and really know that he’s actually coming. Why, though, it has to be on her face, I’m not sure.

    By the way, semen in the eye stings like hell. I strongly recommend you avoid it.

  2. I never thought I’d give Paris Hilton any serious consideration, but you’re right, Jill. She may invite cheap jokes—she may even be a cheap joke—but that one was pretty vicious.

    OT, I read recently that Hilton’s family isn’t as mega-mega-rich as everyone assumes, and that she’s really helping by pulling in millions with her perfume, CDs and God knows what. In other words, she gets slut-shamed all the way to the bank.

  3. People make stupid jokes. It’s bad. But they do it. And sometimes they’re sorry afterward. Or at least embarrassed when they get called out. But that lower third. They called a woman a slut on TV. For no reason. They called her a slut. Like it’s funny. Like it’s okay. That had to go through like, a producer, a graphics guy, a whole chain of people who all thought it was funny, and okay. Not just an anchor slipping a stupid joke in there. But a part of the program. A graphic someone suggested, and someone else designed, and someone else called for at the proper time in the program.

    God. Sometimes it’s worse than being punched in the face, to be hit with the realization of how much they hate us.

  4. Is there a place to write to Olbermann? I think if he is made aware (Lord, I hope he’s got some tingle of awareness of how wrong the whole tone of the piece was), he seems like the kind of guy who might apologize…one would hope, since I’ve felt he’s been one of the “good guys” for a while now.

    Paris is an irresistable target for a lot of people who should know better.

  5. I didn’t watch the clip, but when you started talking about it, I assumed he was talking about plastic surgery until you started talking about cumshots. Besides, was there a cumshot in the video? I never watched more than 5 seconds of it…

    Of course, even if he was talking about plastic surgery, it’s still problematic. (Though, much more understandable. My wife watches discovery health continuously, and I’d rather actually die than have any of that shit happen to me… unless, of course, I could be pretty!) But still, I think he’d be the type to apologize, as others have said. It’s just so easy to say something sexist without thinking about it. (Kind of like the comment about green skeletons I had to backspace in the paragraph above!)

  6. And we all know what he’s talking about.

    I’m not purposefully being a clueless git, but why do you assume that he’s refering to semen on her face? Seriously, I am blissfully unaware of what goes on in Ms. Hilton’s life, and I don’t understand why you assume he’s taking a potshot at her sex life rather than her choice of cosmetics.

    I also can’t watch the video b/c I’m at work, so if the answer is in there, I can’t access it.

  7. Guess the good ship feminism is going to sail without me, no way am I going to stand up for the waste of oxygen that is Paris Hilton.

  8. Alice,

    Feminists can think that Paris Hilton isn’t worth the soft tissue wrapped around her bones, (in fact, I suspect most do), but that doesn’t mean that we shoudl accept sexism simply because she it the immediate target. If Paris Hilton is assaultable because she’s had jizz on her cheek (and I still doubt that that was the intended meaning), then that’s readily generalizable to all women. (Even if they haven’t had jizz on their cheek, because if they haven’t then they’re frigid bitches/dykes/something else bad that independently “justifies” violence.)

  9. Soupcann left a comment on Feministing with an email address for the show: countdown@msnbc.com

    I normally like Olbermann, but I have to agree that this is a serious cheap shot. The whole thing just makes it seem like it was okay to punch her in the face because she’s a slut and “has had worse.” I guess it’s not just our vaginas that are supposed to be able to take a lot of punishment…

  10. I just wrote him and asked that they apologize, actually, here’s the email…

    Hello!

    First I want to say that I normally LOVE what Keith
    does, he is one of the very few voices speaking the
    truth to the American public, and I admire and
    appreciate his efforts for us. However, the “A Slut
    and Assault” tag line is over the line. I am a thirty
    year old woman, and have to say that his tone and the
    tag line went beyond lightly making fun of someone, to
    offending at least some of his female audience. We
    are trying to raise the dialogue and quality of what
    we expect from our news agents, not lower it. This is
    really the heart of the offense:

    “but particularly in the context of a claim of
    assault, which diminishes the seriousness of an
    assault charge and suggests that assaults on ‘sluts’
    are less worthy of serious consideration”

    This from Eat the Press sums it up nicely:

    Now. No one is making the argument here that Hilton is
    a blushing virgin. But there is something really
    unseemly and misogynistic about that particular phrase
    — not only is it stunningly inappropriate for MSNBC
    and Olbermann (the recent holier-than-thou voice of
    America Wronged, lest we forget) to throw that label
    on anyone, but particularly in the context of a claim
    of assault, which diminishes the seriousness of an
    assault charge and suggests that assaults on ‘sluts’
    are less worthy of serious consideration.

    Even more shocking is what Olbermann alluded to with
    this comment:

    Paris Hilton claims she was punched in the face
    yesterday morning at a nightclub in Hollywood [pause]
    ‘Course she’s had worse things happen to her face…

    When I heard that last night, I didn’t get the
    specific reference, just assumed it was a lewd
    reference to her sexual history; I recall finding it a
    little coarse an insinuation, frankly. But apparently
    the reference had greater significance, as indicated
    by today by FishbowlNY who referred to it saying “And
    yes, that is what he meant.” FBNY didn’t link to
    anything there; I won’t either, because trying to
    sleuth it out through Google seared my eyeballs. All I
    can say is that it is a vile reference, and completely
    beneath what Olbermann holds himself out to be. Not
    exactly what one would call an Edward R. Murrow
    moment.”

    OK, me again, a quick apology will get him off the
    worst person in the world 🙂 That’s all it would
    take, just a simple, honest, hmmm, maybe we took
    things too far, will be enough to diffuse most of the
    emotion on this topic. I think Keith is better than
    this, I hope he is, up until now he has come across as
    intelligent, sincere, passionate, honest and balanced.
    I don’t want to think he really, at heart, is a
    misogynistic, coarse asshole.

    Please do the right thing. Many people look up to
    Keith for his courage in addressing the failings of
    this administration. Please know that I hold him in
    high esteem, but this type of commentary has more
    place on the FOX network than it does MSNBC. If he
    wants to be our voice and to keep his ratings, please
    watch the really degrading comments and judgement on
    other peoples sex lives. It’s just not the Keith I
    look up to and respect. And if this is where the show
    is heading, I won’t be a viewer for much longer….and
    then I will cry because this is one of the only shows
    presenting honest information to a yearning public.

    Please do the right thing, we will only respect you
    more for it!!!!!!!!!

    I like Keith, but this kind of behavior is too much the norm and as I see it, we are now looking for people who raise the level of our conversations, not continue to lower it.

  11. Like probably most feminists, I disapprove of the persona Paris projects — the helpless, vapid, frivolous, stupid, irresponsibile, little-girl/sexbot. But I don’t think any feminist should lose sight of the fact that Paris is still a human being. Sure, she’s cashed in on pandering to humiliating popular ideas about femininity — but I am not sure it helps to jump on the bandwagon and act like she is not worth basic respect. So yeah, she doesn’t deserve sexism and misogyny even if she herself plays into it sometimes.

  12. Hear, hear, Happy Feminist. No matter how much Ms. Hilton herself may make me twitch, it’s not okay for her to get punched in the face.

    Man, I can’t believe we’re still working on grasping the “it’s not okay to hit people” rule. I had that down by the age of nine.

  13. A cheap shot, but we’re all capable of those every now and then. Olbermann may just be thoughtful enough to re-examine what he said if enough people call him on it. I’m willing to give him a chance to do so.

  14. One of the challenges of feminism is coming to the defense of those who, like Paris, seem to embody so much of what we’re fighting against. I’d be surprised if Olbermann doesn’t retract or apologize, honestly.

  15. It takes Paris Hilton to make me delurk – who would’ve thought?!? Actually, I’ve been catching up on archives, and I love this site. I saw this headline and it grabbed my attention.
    I, also, do not care for Paris Hilton’s method of furthering her career, but using a term like “slut” in a news program is completely uncalled for. I wonder if any news shows used that term to describe Rob Lowe after he was caught in a sex tape scandal.
    I emailed Countdown, so hopefully if enough of us respond, they’ll not only apologize, but also make sure this doesn’t happen again.

  16. If Paris Hilton is assaultable because she’s had jizz on her cheek

    Impossible to tell in these situations–I mean, it’s like MSNBC covering the machinations of high schoolers–but it seems like she was assaultable because she’d just had some meathead dump a drink on Shanna Moakler and toss her down some stairs. (No, I don’t know who “Shanna Moakler” is, but that’s what Gawker said.) Being tossed down stairs qualifies as an assaultable offense.

  17. I don’t know why, but I always feel sympathy for Paris Hilton. Maybe that’s because she is (apparently) such an easy target; it’s certainly not that she and I have a whole lot in common besides the obvious, that we’re both female human beings. I don’t know why. I have also always felt a great deal of affection for the likes of Alistair Crowley, so, go figure.

    I do hope Keith Olberman apologizes; I didn’t see that episode (and my old browser just can’t handle YouTube links) so I can’t see the context/delivery for myself, but it does sound pretty nasty, a cheap shot, and quite uncalled for. (I just don’t get why violence is “okay” where sex isn’t; I’ve recently been fuming about the editing I KNOW has gone on in the PBS version of Casanova, which is originally a British production and had plenty of sex scenes [that dammit, I want to see!] that I’m guessing, by the tone of the rest of the show are probably rather sweet; in contrast, on the standard American TV shows of last night alone we get mother and daughter rapes with mutilation and bitings, or a cop being beat up because he implied some fireman might be gay, and gaaah, this is so fucked up. It’s just so obvious and so unhealthy and ack, I’m sorry, but I’ve lost any semblance of coherance. I keep wondering, when confronted with this society, where the hell are the grownups? Doesn’t anyone have any sense?)

    That said, I’m not ready to give up on Keith yet; he won my heart last night calling someone on the use of the word “hung” for “hanged”, one of my personal pet peeves, and the red marker crossing out 9 of the first 10 amendments on his Habeas Corpus segment was wonderful.

    So if Lauren’s dumped him, does that mean he’s free??

  18. I think Keith is channeling a bit too much Murrow and is getting cocky. He should apologize.

    Anyway, he is poaching when he does that Pulling that kind of crap should be left to blog commenters insulting Malkin or Coulter, or Limbaugh.

  19. A lot of people do construct a man ejaculating on a woman’s face as a greater humiliation than a punch. And despite that (or, more likely, because of it), it’s a staple of hetero porn.

    I meant to say something about this earlier: I don’t follow how this logic necessarily condemns Olbermann. If he falls into the first category–someone who believes that sexual humiliation is more degrading than a punch in the face is painful–it says nothing about the popularity of the money shot. He may just find the practice of humiliating women for sexual gratification degrading and think less of Hilton for that.*

    Now, obviously not everyone finds this particular practice degrading, but in the current context–a woman who made homemade pornographic tapes in which, from what Olbermann says, she participates in acts designed to titillate the male gaze by appealing to pornographic conventions–it seems that link between ejaculation and humiliation is in play.

    Since Hilton parades her coddled stupidity for all the world to see–and since her boyfriends seem equally adrift in cultural detritus–I’d wager that she doesn’t consider the practice humiliating, and may even consider it empowering. Her set don’t seem keen with the self-consciousness, is what I mean, which makes them prime targets for the unthinking acquisition and repetition of what they see, hear and read hear about.

    *Caveat: I can’t watch videos on my computer, so I’m basing this on what’s been said about Olbermann here. So I can’t speak to the segment’s tagline–and if I could, I’m not sure whether that’s something Olbermann even controls. (It may well be, I just don’t know.)

  20. Right now leaders of the administration are agitating to begin a war with Iran that will destroy what remains America’s position of geopolical leadership in the world and collapse the world economy by disrupting up to 20% of global oil supply, and people here are considering turning on one of the few MSM voices opposing this madness because he called Paris Hilton a slut.

    Never have I seen such an immature and distorted sense of priorities in my life. Who cares if Olberman apologizes or not. He is doing important work and making sure he isn’t replaced by some right-wing tool like Tucker Carlson or Joe Scarborough is more important than ideological purity right now.

  21. Jay said exactly what I was going to, only s/he tossed a few unecessary words in there. Let me take them out:

    Right now leaders of the administration are agitating to begin a war with Iran that will destroy what remains America’s position of geopolical leadership in the world and collapse the world economy by disrupting up to 20% of global oil supply, and… one of the few MSM voices opposing this madness… called Paris Hilton a slut.

    Never have I seen such an immature and distorted sense of priorities in my life.

    Exactly!

  22. i Never have I seen such an immature and distorted sense of priorities in my life.

    Naughty, naughty feminists, talking about something I have deemed frivolous.

  23. Never have I seen such an immature and distorted sense of priorities in my life. Who cares if Olberman apologizes or not.

    Forget the misogyny and slut-shaming and focus on the real issues! Wow, the stench of male privilege is overwhelming here.

  24. Wow, the stench of male privilege is overwhelming here.

    Incredibly predictable, though. I’ve seen it on every feminist blog which is, to me, incredibly weird because…. blog ferchrissake. There are entire blogs (and some very good ones, too) devoted to shoes, putting things on cats, baby animals and horrid recipes. Where are the concern trolls when the discussion is about whether a hedgehog can really be considered cute?

  25. Yeah, seriously, how do you get bukkake out of that?

    And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.

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  27. Alecto, I’m not sure what your point is. There is no evidence that insulting celebrities is a higher prioirty for Olberman than reporting on matters of substance. In fact, he frequently bemoans having to do celebrity news at all. So, your implication that he placed his misogyny ahead of his opposition to the Bush administration seems unwarranted.

    It is Jill and various commentators here who seem to think that Olberman’s sexist attack on Paris Hilton is of greater significance than his political reporting, since they are advocating “dumping the motherfucker already.”

    Evil Fizz, I don’t think it’s merely male privilige that causes me to think opposing another losing war in the Middle East is more important than making the mostly symbolic gesture of turning on Olberman en masse (and thereby proving his right-wing bosses with political cover to fire him and replace him with a right-winger).
    Frankly, I have other priviliges that are a hell of a olt more important to me, such as being a member of a wealthy, industrialized nation with a (relatively) functioning government and intact civil institutions.

    I spent some time in a failed state when I was younger (post-Soviet Russia) and if I had to choose between avoiding that sort of social and economic breakdown or preventing vapid millionaire heiresses from being called sluts I would choose the former. Since that kind of breakdown is a likely result of a war with Iran, supporting people who reduce its likelihood seems like the higher priority right now. If that makes me a sexist by the standards here, so be it.

  28. Actually, it’s the zero-sum “priority” thing that marks you out as kinda sexist, given that misogyny has a disturbing tendency to be relegated to the sidelines no matter the degree, scope, or timeline. And that–see below–there’s no reason we should believe that taking umbrage at the Hilton complaint will cause Olbermann to lose his job, jump off a bridge, or throw his support into nuking Iran just to spite women.

    Feminists can call Olbermann–or Hersh, or Woodward, or Herbert, or Dean, or whomever–out on sexism whenever and wherever it happens. If Lauren’s old flame can say misogynist things and oppose the war in Iran at the same time, he can refrain from saying misogynist things and oppose the war in Iran at the same time. And feminists in general can praise his war stance and complain about his regressive attitude towards la Hilton. We’re all multitaskers here.

  29. It is Jill and various commentators here who seem to think that Olberman’s sexist attack on Paris Hilton is of greater significance than his political reporting, since they are advocating “dumping the motherfucker already.”

    a) non sequitur.

    b) Is Olbermann so important that he can’t be called out for misogyny? That seems pretty good evidence of male privilege to me.

  30. Piny,
    The reason for the zero-sum priority thing, as you put it, is that there are no other voices in the mainstream media saying what Olberman is. He is all that the left has, and Jill wasn’t suggesting merely calling him on the misogyny of the Hilton segment, she advocated or at least implied that those on the left who watch his show should “dump” him, i.e., quit watching.

    There has been talk that Olberman’s job has been hanging by a thread for quite a while now, and even hinting at anything like a boycott from the left is irresponsible as hell. G.E., the parent company of NBC, is a major recipient of government pork and would stand to gain from silencing a critic of this administration regardless of his ratings. What prevents them from doing so is a lack of political cover. A boycott, a big blowout throughout the left blogosphere, or a drop in ratings could provide that politcal cover.

  31. Jay, you should really click on the category link for “My Other Boyfriend” to get the context in which the word “dump” is being used here, because you’re blowing that particular word way out of proportion.

  32. Jay,

    Her post was an open letter to Lauren, who has apparently jokingly (or not jokingly? Please don’t throw a shoe at me) claimed Olbermann as her boyfriend. “DTMFA” was not aimed at the world at large, as I understand it.

    However, if he isn’t willing to say a piece about this and admit that it was fucked up, then why shouldn’t feminists dump him? If he said “Mr. Bush, please, daddy, please can we have habeus corpus back? By the way, you know what’s kind of okay? Lynching darkies. After all, it wouldn’t be as bad for them as allowing them to live their miserable lives.”, nobody would blink at a call from the black community to get the fucker out of the news. But, if he says that punching paris hilton in the face is less wrong because somebody shot a load on it one time, and feminists don’t appreciate it, then they’ve got a case of the wandering uterus. WTF.

  33. While a lot of people would blink at that case, I don’t think a few folks saying that it’s wrong to call a woman a slut simply because we don’t agree with some of her choices is that bad of a charge to make. I mean really, the likelyhood of him being pulled off the air due to us saying that’s not cool is slim to none.

  34. shannon,

    That’s because women internalize their own oppression so fucking well, that most of them wouldn’t even consider it objectionable that he said this. About what percentage of black people do you think would take the “lynching darkies” mitigation sitting down? Somewhere between zero and 0.000001 (accounting for black, blind white-supremicists.)

  35. We would not take it standing down, but everyone wouldn’t listen to us, because we are overeacting darkies who want everyone to be PC and oppress the white man’s freedom of speech. Also, we’re being mind controlled by Al Sharpton. And Jessie Jackson. Also, every oppressed group has internalized oppression.

  36. Yeah, but women are so good at theirs, Shannon. I’ve never heard a black person say “I just don’t think black people should hold positions of power.”

    But, growing up in the midwest, you can bet I heard an awful lot of women say “I just don’t think women should hold positions of power.”

  37. There is no evidence that insulting celebrities is a higher prioirty for Olberman than reporting on matters of substance. In fact, he frequently bemoans having to do celebrity news at all.

    I’m a way-left liberal who appreciates Olbermann for being the rare liberal voice in the MSM, but who finds him smug, pompous, and–as in the case of his “bemoaning” the burden of celebrity news–utterly disingenuous.

    Take his April 3 show, for example. At the top, he says:

    And more stories my producers are forcing me to cover. Lindsay Lohan forgets to cover, insufficient panties at a movie awards ceremony for kids. Mommy, what is that in her back pocket?

    A bit later in the broadcast, after four more Lindsay-not-wearing-pants jokes (really! he hates talking about celebrities!), he’s joined by Michael Musto, and the two of them proceed to guffaw at the release of Basic Instinct 2, on the sole grounds that Sharon Stone’s middle-aged crotch is obviously a source of revulsion:

    …did anybody say, no, you know what, that was really hot when you made that first one 15 years ago and this is—this is—this not your grandfather‘s “Basic Instinct?”

    ….and then chuckles when Musto carries the joke further. But hey, his bosses are forcing him! He’s powerless to resist! In all other arenas, he is to be revered as the lone rebel voice in the wilderness, but when it comes to Lindsay’s undies and Sharon’s aging privates, he’s the victim! Blechhh.

    In the absence of virtually any other “progressive” voices available to us in the MSM, I’ll grudgingly take Keith. But uniqueness does not confer immunity. “He treats me like crap sometimes, but he’s all I’ve got in the world and I don’t know what I’d do without him!” has never yet been a compelling argument for unquestioned fidelity.

  38. I have a really old book (1919) called “Mammy’s White Folks” in which the heroine, Mammy, says just that. She thinks all black niggers is “no-count” and won’t allow her beloved white master to hire any additional servants because she loves slaving for him so much. She is 70 years old.
    Ahe also hates “free niggers”. When Mammy breaks her hip trying to protect her master’s silver service, it takes THREE young “no-count” “stuck-up” free niggers to replace her.
    While this book was NOT WRITTEN by a black person (at least as far as I know), for it to have been considered remotely realistic at it’s publication suggests that SOME former slaves, who were already old when set free, did indeed hold opinions such as these.

  39. Kathy,

    You sure pulled out the WayBack machine for that one. I last heard a woman speak the line I referenced above in 2004. (I’ve since retreated to my glorious ivory tower where I’m mostly insulated from such ridiculousness, though I expect one of my students to utter it eventually… I’m braced for it.)

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  41. This is why, as I always say at least once a week regarding another offensive clip I see, I just can’t watch television anymore. I have faith in someone and very quickly I see they are just a tool for popular buck.

    Lizard’s highlights suddenly show the Hilton comments on that show are just one small part of the common practice of using women as entertainment, in whatever form available. Whether as sexbots to cum on or bitches to laugh at, women serve as the somersaulting circus chimp, ready always to please and serve up entertainment by confirming whether intentional or not, their powerlessness and subservience to their master’s will.

    As for Jay, this is a blog about feminist issues, not political. Your concern for the political is personal. Our concern for the woman is personal.

    Please be aware of and respect that.

  42. A clarification: DTMFA was in reference to a running joke on this blog, about Lauren’s love of Keith Olbermann and my love of Anderson Cooper. I only meant that Lauren should dump him as her pretend boyfriend, which is why it was addressed specifically to Lauren and not to CNN or whatever channel his show is on. It had nothing to do with him being dropped from his network, which I do not think would be an appropriate response to this incident.

    Now, proceed.

  43. A clarification: DTMFA was in reference to a running joke on this blog, about Lauren’s love of Keith Olbermann and my love of Anderson Cooper. I only meant that Lauren should dump him as her pretend boyfriend, which is why it was addressed specifically to Lauren and not to CNN or whatever channel his show is on. It had nothing to do with him being dropped from his network, which I do not think would be an appropriate response to this incident.

    Now, proceed.

    Don’t be ridiculous, Jill. No complaint on the part of feminists about liberal sexism is ever anything but untimely and overwrought. And mean.

    I should probably hold off on publishing my, “Can Someone Feed Seymour Hersh to Mako Sharks Already? It’s Just, I Don’t Like His Face,” post, huh?

  44. He was bad in bed anyway.

    Reading that link makes me ever so glad I’m a low on the totem pole blogger and not famous on TV. I just have this nightmare image of everyone from my past setting up revenge blogs about how much I sucked.

    any casual consumer of mainstream porn can probably tell you that the “money shot” is a basic requirement these days

    What, on the face? Seriously, that’s standard in porn? I’d heard of the “money shot,” but I’d always just assumed (without having seen one), that it went, oh, on a woman’s stomach or some place like that (someplace convenient and not too uncomfortable).

    Of course, I’ve also been out of the dating scene for nearly two decades, so any upticks in what’s now being requested went right by me.

  45. There has been talk that Olberman’s job has been hanging by a thread for quite a while now, and even hinting at anything like a boycott from the left is irresponsible as hell.

    If his job really is hanging by a thread, then his misogynistic coments aren’t helping his cause. Sounds like he is the one being irresponsible as hell.

  46. but it should be pointed out that the eroticisation of degrading the “bottom” in gay porn is at least in part erotic because you’re treating him like a woman

    I feel it is patronising to homosexual guys to tell them that their sexual dynamics revolve around a women substitute. Even with the disclaimer of “at least in part” which goes no where to clear things up and seems just intended to remove conviction of the claim.

  47. And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.

    \start_{derail}
    no way, really? have other single women noticed this? I’ve never had anyone ask me for that, but I’ve been in longterm, monogamous, mostly porn-free relationships for the last several years, so I’ve missed out on recent sexual trends. (thank dog)
    \end_{derail}

  48. I didn’t say that their sexual dynamics revolve around a woman substitute, any more than I said that hetero sexual dynamics revolve around money shots.

  49. But hey, his bosses are forcing him! He’s powerless to resist! In all other arenas, he is to be revered as the lone rebel voice in the wilderness, but when it comes to Lindsay’s undies and Sharon’s aging privates, he’s the victim!

    I find it really hard to believe that anyone forces him to cover celebrity news. He’s allowed to say whatever he wants on political issues and perpetually mock Bill O’Reilly (who deserves nothing but mocking), but he’s forced to do stories about Lindsay Lohan and Sharon Stone? Yeah, right.

    He is doing important work and making sure he isn’t replaced by some right-wing tool like Tucker Carlson or Joe Scarborough is more important than ideological purity right now.

    See, the problem is, it’s always “right now.”

  50. And I say this as someone who’s noticed a definite uptick in requests to come on my face in recent years.

    /restarting derail

    As have I. And my current bf asked after he started watching porn. Monkey see, monkey want to do. I’ve since banned porn from the house. (not because of this instance alone)

  51. Ugh I hate cable news.

    Can’t we just dump ALL of ’em and start over?

    Maybe then we’ll actually get some relevant information and some depth to our news.

    Okay, maybe that second wish is asking for too much.

  52. When straight women talk about how thankful they were of a boyfriend who didn’t watch porn or who were actually *gasp* FEMINISTS, it kind of makes my stomach turn.
    The easiest way into a feminist’s heart for men is saying they are anti-porn, anti-sex industry, gender/sexuality conscious, and above all else, feminists themselves. And why wouldn’t men want to go for feminists? Intelligent, beautiful, strong, independent women…just say the right words. and you’re in.
    This is not not say there are not feminist men, feminist-supportive men, or great men out there. It’s just a bit disappointing to witness so many feminist women question whether they are “really” feminists or not (see Feministe or iblamethepatriarchy blogs), and then baby and applaud whenever a straight guy comes in saying he’s down for the feminist cause. We are so infamous for babying men and many progressive men are infamous for always laid by the hot feminists.

    Honestly, I’d rather be punched in the face than being cum on the face by a guy.

  53. I wish you would copy your post (though not necessarily the debate in the comments; stuff that’s in line w/ your message doesn’t add anything critical, and stuff that isn’t is merely confusing) and send it in to Keith Olbermann.

    I was looking to send it on, but I can’t find any contact information from him.

    Anyway, the note I’d have attached is, “Dear Mr. Olbermann,
    Your requests for apologies for mean and hurtful words are eloquent. You always understand that insults don’t only hurt those they were directed at, but that insults create an ENVIRONMENT that hurts even more people.

    “However, everyone makes mistakes, and this time, I feel that you have said something–will hurt more than the one person you insulted. The way you described being punched in the face versus being come upon while engaging in consensual sex is very dangerous. It disintegrates boundaries between what “good men” do and what “bad men” do. By implying that an act done by a man to a woman can only have one version–the bad version–you confuse people who look at their own consensual face-dripping incidents and start to see themselves as “naughty,” yet since they did it without any conscience pangs, it must be a natural part of them. And once you make a person feel that all of a certain type of behavior that they were doing one form of anyway is bad, then they’re not going to avoid it to be good: you simply risk pushing people over to not caring to avoid the truly bad behavior!

    I’ve done a terrible job adding to this beautiful blog entry, but please see blogger “Jill’s” comments on:
    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/note-to-lauren-dtmfa/

    I believe–I truly believe after watching your special commentaries about the importance of avoiding conditioning people to think badly–that you’ll side with Ms. Jill when you read her work.

    Thank you,
    Katie

  54. I’ve never seen Paris Hilton’s movie, but last year I happened to be at adult.dvdempire.com when I noticed they had it. I was looking at the comments for it and saw this:

    It’s too bad she takes a shot to the chest in the end, as a facial would have made this home porno even hotter.

    which I found distasteful at the time. Come on the body is different than come on the face (and apparently I’m not the only one who feels that way). I’ve had both done and felt much worse after come on the face. I found this comment to be so disturbing that I had to talk to my husband to make sure not all men are like that.

    Just thought I would clarify that while Keith Olbermann is making cracks about come on Paris Hilton’s face there’s no such video showing such.

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