What’s In A Name?

31 thoughts on What’s In A Name?

1. FYI, have you read Freakonomics? There’s a section on the whole name thing.

   This type of racism is difficult to track and can often masquerade as classism as well, I think.

2. “That’s just like when the manager of an apartment I looked at in Washington Heights asked me to attach a photo of myself to the application. Not racism at all! Just, uh, so we can get to know you! (And in case your name doesn’t help the landlord easily identify your “ethnicity”!) I didn’t call back.”

   Some friends of mine were looking for an apartment in New Jersey (or was it PA?) and saw something like this. They were looking to rent part of a house from an elderly couple that lived upstairs and saw them turn away a black couple because “it was already taken.” When my white friends approached to doublecheck that it was indeed taken, the landlord asked one of them what his last name was and was pleased when it was identifiably German. They got the apartment, no problem.

3. There’s actually an exception in housing discrimination laws (or was last time I checked it) for owner-occupied buildings of (IIRC) four units or less.

4. His research shows that an unusual number of people named Dennis become dentists, and if you’re named George you’re more likely to become a geologist.

   Hmmm. I wonder if this guy changed his first name from Idiot?

5. An EEO consultant acquaintance of mine mentioned that a unamed company got accused of discriminatory hiring practices. The consultant and the company was confused because the manager who had been named did not appear to be discriminating. It turned out an administrative assistant level person was using speech patterns and accents picked up on phone calls with the applicants to screen out minority applicants.

   So it does not have to be a name but it can be the way you pronounce a letter of the alphabet or a word.

6. Zuzu, there is an exception in NJ, at least. My mom’s friend lives in half of a duplex and rents out the other half. She’s rejected applicants for all kinds of reasons, from the college kids she was afraid would be party animals to the family that was known around town to run an illegal sports league (I’m not kidding, it was volleyball tournaments for money).

7. I saw something like this on one of the afternoon talk shows last year. There was a black man who ran his own company. He wouldn’t hire anyone with “black” names (Tanisha, Shaniqua, Jamal, etc). His reasoning was that parents who would name their children like that were likely to be “angry black people”, and that their children would be “angry black people”, and in his experience would be more likely to cause trouble for him and his business. It was fascinating.

8. zuzu: Yup, that still exists. I believe it applies to owner-occupied w/ 4 total units or less. I think but am not sure, that the exception may also apply to privately owned non-owner-occupied housing as well (e.g. you are not obliged to rent your summer home to whites, I don’t think).

   However you cannot ADVERTISE in a discriminatory fashion; that’s illegal no matter how small you are I think.

   This leads to an odd result: it increases the number of rejections, by failing to notify people of apartments/houses where they will be rejected on the basis of their classification. i.e., you can’t tell a racist from the ad.

   A good friend of mine used to participate in occasional real estate stings while she was at DOJ. She’s got some interesting stories.

9. I wouldn’t say that your name– however unusual — can hold you back from success. At the most, it’s an indication of how assimilated to mainstream American culture your parents wanted to be at the time of your birth.

   Of course, the more they wanted to fit in, the more likely it is that you were pressed to go on to higher education, etc. Maybe all us ethnic folk with white names should rebel and raise wildly successful children named Lakeema and Jamel?

10. Make your identifiably black name work for you – become an engineer. Diversity is pretty hot in engineering companies right now. I was asked to review a set of intern resumes which had been identified as “diversity rich.” They almost all had identifiably non-white names. The people who were not identifiably non-white from their names were identifiably non-white from their colleges. If you have a non-white name and are trying to pick a major, go for engineering.

11. Frumious B, that’s definitely helped me.

    My appearance is very nondescript, but my last name is quite obviously Hispanic. Do I think that this has helped me, when I applied to a very undiversified college and then to graduate school in a very undiversified field? Absolutely, though I doubt admissions would admit it.

12. The only kind of people I wouldn’t hire (for reasons outside of their potential to perform the job well) are the ones who don’t speak English. I don’t mean English as a second language speakers, but people who cannot communicate in English. And yes, they make up a significant portion of applicants.

    If I can’t understand them, or they me, how are they supposed to deal with clients?

13. It’s a catch-22 as Nomie points out. Her last name is her entree into programs aimed at expanding “diversity” while her name on it’s own is not.

    I think “Black” names are more indicators of class than of race. In the last 10 years or so versioins of my name — anything with an “isha” at the end — are often thrown out as “ghetto” names. They are even said with a head rolling, lip-smacking edge to it. They are used as descriptions of “those types” of Black people. 32 years ago, my mother had no clue that my name would become a cultural marker of who I am to people who do not know me, but unfortunately it has.

    I wish I could say that I haven’t bought in to the shaming associated with this. But I haven’t. Connor, Avery, and Grace are much more appealing to me than Jamal, Jerome, or Latisha. I know the judgements that people make of me based on my name. I’m not going use my children as some sort of social experiment to “fight the system” and show how “down” I am with Black folks.

14. I have a friend with a first and last name that, upon hearing it, everyone asks me if she’s black. (let’s ignore everything past the second comma for the moment — it’s Indiana) What amuses me is that beyond the very common American surname that nevertheless is populous among African-Americans, her first name is actually Eastern-European. Gypsy, she told me.

15. There was a black man who ran his own company. He wouldn’t hire anyone with “black” names (Tanisha, Shaniqua, Jamal, etc).

    I always find that reaction interesting because Tanisha and Shaniqua as well as a good majority of the names like them are actually of Arabic orgin not African. I find it absolutely hilarious that so many African American children have Arabic names. I think this sort of racism still exists but it’s not limited to only White people saying it.

    My parents deliberately picked “White” names for us and they also chose non-gendered names as well. I often received mail addressed to Mr. So-So and my brother gets mail addressed to Ms. So-So. Do I think I have an advantage? Sometimes. I can tell when I show up for an interview whether or not they assumed I was White by their reaction. When I get the reaction, I can assure you had my name been Shaniqua or something like it, they would never have called me. And frankly, that’s as polite as it gets. I have had people exclaim upon meeting me “I didn’t know you were Black! You don’t sound Black!” That is as bad as when I meet another Black person and they ask where I’m from and/or why do you talk like that? I have had some Black people insist I have to be from another country because “real Black people don’t talk like that”.

16. There was a black man who ran his own company. He wouldn’t hire anyone with “black” names (Tanisha, Shaniqua, Jamal, etc).

    Is this sad, yes. Does it surprise me…not so much. As wrong as it is, I understand where it comes from.

    Him not hiring someone with a “black name” speaks to our own internalized shyt and classism that Black folks have amongst ourselves.

17. I’d like to believe that Stossel and Kendall are just clueless, but I don’t. Of course it’s racist, as is their unwillingness to call it what it is. The fact that it may also be classist doesn’t detract from the first point one whit.

18. The irony, of course, is that none of us usually even get to choose our name. So the concept that our name would define us is even more problematic–it really defines our parents, not us.

    And yes, people CAN change their name, but by the time one is able to do so one is often pretty invested in it. It’s not really practical to do.

    That’s what sets names apart from many of the other things White Bear talks about. I have much less of a moral problem with discriminating against job applicants based on, say, their clothes. You can control your clothes.

19. I have much less of a moral problem with discriminating against job applicants based on, say, their clothes. You can control your clothes.

    But clothes are often a stand-in for race or class, as well. Hair, especially, is a touchy subject. There are any number of braided hairstyles that are neat and professional and resemble similar styles of white hair, but because they’re braided, they’re considered too ethnic and therefore inappropriate.

    And as far as clothes, we saw with Althouse’s freakout over Jessica Valenti that it’s often not the clothes, but the body in them that’s the problem. Jessica was dressed in a modestly-cut, perfectly appropriate conservative sweater and pants. From Althouse’s reaction, you’d think she’d shown up in a G-string and tassels.

20. That’s not to say, of course, that there aren’t inappropriate outfits. Lord knows I’ve seen a few in my day. But you really need to step back and ask yourself if it’s, say, the pants themselves that are inappropriate or the fact that there’s a big butt in the pants that you can’t stop staring at.

21. But clothes are often a stand-in for race or class, as well.

    And weight, of course–fat people are frequently seen as “unkempt” even when they’re wearing neat clothes that fit well.*

    *Which, speaking of the other thread, can be a problem.

22. Well, clothes may be a standin for the degree to which one follows the socially predicted patterns of race and class. I.e. if you think there are “POC clothes” or “poor person’s clothes” or “White man’s clothes” then sure.

    But anyone can choose to wear whatever clothes they can afford. The clothes demanded for a certain job tend to be at least vaguely linked to the status and pay of the job (e.g. nobody expects a copier tech to wear $2,000 Italian suits.).

    Perhaps our disagreement is merely based on whether we think it’s OK for someone to partially control clothing choice when they’re paying you money. As for me, I think clothing is a pretty reasonable area for employers to be restrictive. If they want to require clean navy blue polos and kakhis, that’s well within their rights to do. I can’t tell if you disagree with that–do you?

23. Well, clothes may be a standin for the degree to which one follows the socially predicted patterns of race and class. I.e. if you think there are “POC clothes” or “poor person’s clothes” or “White man’s clothes” then sure.

    No, the problem really comes into play more with the whole “unprofessional” or “unkempt” charge. The clothes may be perfectly fine, but the person criticizing them as “unprofessional” or “unkempt” really has an issue with the person in the clothes. It’s like that little catch-all “attitude.”

24. oh, I see what you’re saying now.

    Certainly “unkempt” is clear: you’re kempt, or you’re not. Seems an odd and improper accusation to make if it’s not true. And sort of nasty in a snippy way. Hopefully it’s not too common.

    “Attitude”: yup, with ya on that one.

    “Unprofessional” usually means “not dressed like me”, don’t you think? Often it also means “not formal enough”–the people with the money define “professional” and you won’t get told you look unprofessional if you’re in a conservative charcoal suit.

    I’m not sure how one could tell it’s an issue with the person in the clothes, though, unless they’re wearing the exact same clothes as everyone else. Do you see this as being in the “attitude” category?

25. I’ll admit that as a lily-white woman, married to a mostly-white man (he passes for white, anyway) we didn’t consider Jerome or Jamal for our kids. And if they had been girls, I wouldn’t have considered Lakeisha or Tamesha for them, either. But I also wouldn’t have named my son Dylan or Archer, or my daughter Madison or Ashley. Cause, around here, the people who don’t finish high school and consider Wal-Mart upscale shopping name their kids those names. Is it classism? Yeah. It is. Is it racism? Perhaps.

    But I also know that I want to give my kids as good a shot as I can. So I’ve got the thirteen year old in braces, and I’m making sure the six year old practices his spelling, and I named them out of a very traditional, middle of the road name pool. I can’t help that the one boy inherited my fair skin and damn near has to wear sunscreen indoors. I can’t help that the other inherited his dad’s wide feet. But I can give them the best advantage I can in life, and to me part of that is naming one Mark and the other Paul.

26. I find it absolutely hilarious that so many African American children have Arabic names.

    Why’s it so funny? Islam’s been in Africa for a long time. Yes, a lot of it’s reclamation and a lot of it’s oddly-filtered or brought in through fringe groups like the Nation of Islam, but plenty of the first African slaves brought to America were, as a matter of record, Muslim and/or had names of Arabic origin. It sure as hell makes more historical sense than “John” or “Lorraine” or “Helen.”

27. This sort of reminds me of the part in Crash where Matt Dillon’s character flips out when the black receptionist is named “Shaniqua”. I actually read something like this in the Ethicist a few years back, about a person who had an “ethnic” name and wondered whether he should remove it to have a better chance at a job, or if that would perpetuate racism. I agree that it’s about class, and also “assimilationism” if you will, where people look down on nonwhites who are more obvious about their ethnicity.

28. I think this whole issue may have started out as RACE, but it has become CLASS. Names like Tanesha and Shaquilla have been entirely co-opted by the white underclass, and now culturally infer POORNESS.

    I think when employers hear them, they think : trailer park.

    That doesn’t mean people have to stop using them. Fashions never stop changing, and who knows what will be useful or good twenty years from now, name-wise.

    I personally would think twice before giving my child an unusual name, because they have to spend their ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE spelling it for people. That’s not a problem if your name is David or Mary.

    (I think I might be tempted to name my child Poindexter, though, so it’s a good thing I don’t have any.)

29. The problem with clothes is almost exclusively female. Women’s clothes cost more, the styles change more frequently, and every damn outfit you can imagine will be criticized: it’s either unprofessional (the slut look) or not feminine enough. Traditionally female jobs are much more likely to involve greeting the public and are much less likely to involve uniforms or near-uniforms. All you need to know about sexism in the workplace is that a male admin can get by with a pair of khaki pants (wrinkle-free, stain-resistant, washable!) and a polo shirt and a comfortable pair of brown or black shoes, but a female admin will require multiple dresses, skirt and slacks suits (easily wrinkled, stain-susceptible, requiring dry cleaning), matching shoes per outfit (non-laceup, some sort of heel), jewlery, makeup, stockings, hairdos. And no matter how closely she models her wardrobe on another woman in the company with some senority, someone is going to take offense.

    I’m surprised anyone would read Tanesha or Shaquilla as trailer park names. Those are not at all indicative of poverty round here, those are purely about race. Low class names would be Brianna and Michaela.

    I’m no longer surprised when people look racism in the face and call it something else.

30. I think this whole issue may have started out as RACE, but it has become CLASS. Names like Tanesha and Shaquilla have been entirely co-opted by the white underclass, and now culturally infer POORNESS.

    My comment meant to point race and class intersect, how the names are more common among children of lower class Black folks, not about how poor White folks have “co-opted” the names. Most of my peers think twice of giving our kids “ethnic” names for fear that they will be associated with ghetto of Black folks.

    Sad, but true.

31. Women’s clothes cost more – Kaethe

    Actually, I’ve noticed women’s clothes actually cost less than men’s clothes (or you can find decent looking women’s clothes for a smaller price per outfit than for men’s clothes), but women’s clothes tend not to last so long, women are expected to wear a different outfit everyday in many fields in which men can get away with wearing the same pair of slacks for two days in the same week, etc. So in the net women’s clothes do cost more, but prices for outfits can be misleading …

    anyhoo … as to the name thing: it’s interesting how it works — my name and looks are very typically Jewish, but they do not match people’s stereotype of how a Jew looks, so I can very easily pass for non-Jewish even though if you go to your average synagogue you’ll see as many people looking like me (if not more) than you see people looking like the stereotype. my name is also common, which could conceivably cause problems with me getting mixed up with the who knows how many other people with my same first and last name (and even same middle initial).

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