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Three young Muslim students murdered

EG

I’ve been trying to find a good link for this story on and off all morning, but I can’t. I’m pulling together what I’m reading off my Twitter feed. If anybody has a good link, please leave it in comments and I’ll add it to the post.

Update: here’s a link, with thanks to Pseudonym.

So apparently an aggressive white atheist by the name of Craig Stephen Hicks murdered three Muslim students at Chapel Hill yesterday, newlyweds Deah Barakat, 23, a second-year student in UNC’s School of Dentistry, and Yusor Mohammad, 21, who was going to enter dental school in the fall. Mohammad’s sister, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19, a sophomore in college, was visiting them and also murdered.

I’m not getting a whole lot of information here, but I think it’s quite telling that despite Facebook posts denouncing both radical Muslims and radical Christians, Hicks chose to go after young Muslim students who seem to have been devoted to good works, traveling to provide free dental care to those in need, etc. That’s what it means to live in an atmosphere of Islamophobia, aided and abetted by those in US government.

58 thoughts on Three young Muslim students murdered

  2. A parking dispute? Really? And we’re supposed to believe the fact that they were Muslim had nothing to do with it?

    1. They aren’t mutually exclusive; a dispute over loud music can lead to murder without the races of the victim and perpetrator being irrelevant.

  4. Thanks to both Donna and Pseudonym. I don’t know why I wasn’t turning anything up–I’m going to ascribe it to the fact that I spent this morning throwing up.

  5. I feel like telling me they are “Muslim” doesn’t actually tell me a whole lot about their religion and culture. It’s a pretty general term.

    There’s more to these people than just this singular label, unless we’re looking to report on this solely from the killer’s perspective, in which case the particularities of their faith and culture don’t matter. That’s sort of what the reporting feels like to me, and I don’t like it.

    Mostly the news coverage seems to suffice with “three Muslims” and then a picture so you know they’re like, the obvious kind.

    Bleh.

    1. All the stories I’ve seen manage to emphasize that they were the “good” kind of Muslims. Hard-working students! In other words (at least implicitly), not terrorists like the “bad” kind of Muslims.

        1. I guess that’s necessary given the general political atmosphere, but it still makes me uncomfortable that every journalist feels that they have to point that out.

      2. Yeah it’s like amidst all the rhetoric telling everyone that not all Muslims are the same, everyone forgot to actually learn anything about what makes them different other than “terrorism” and “not terrorism”. That sucks and is sucky.

        Entirely separately, I would like to know at least their citizenship right? Isn’t that usually pretty salient?

  7. So apparently an aggressive white atheist

    I expect to see “by a Muslim,” “by a Jew,” “by a black person,’ and so on after every single horrific crime you comment on here, mk?

    Also, go screw yourself. Until you know that his atheism motivated the crime, just shut up.

    1. 1) I’m an atheist, you dolt, and a relatively aggressive one.

      2) Do you think that if he had been a fundamentalist Christian, I wouldn’t have mentioned that? New around here, are you?

      3) You think knowing that isn’t relevant? If you think that the media isn’t going to make much of his atheism and that Christians aren’t going to go to town on the immorality of atheists, read up on the past 100 years and get back to me.

      4) Oh, what the hell, go fuck yourself, too.

      1. I mean, already atheists all over my twitter feed are denouncing the murders so as not to be associated, which is one of the ways I found out about it, but sure, it’s not relevant.

        1. You think knowing that isn’t relevant? If you think that the media isn’t going to make much of his atheism and that Christians aren’t going to go to town on the immorality of atheists, read up on the past 100 years and get back to me.

          This is an ironic rejoinder since you’re literally part of the problem you just described.

    2. I mean, when your reporting is closer to Fox News than any of the other networks (which at least didn’t put his religious affiliation in the lede)…

      Also, ‘aggressive atheist?’ Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

      1. 1) I’m not a “reporter,” so what I write isn’t “reporting.” His atheism was mentioned as the first thing about him in every single thing I saw.

        2) I picked “aggressive” as opposed to the more common “militant” because I saw nothing to indicate that he advocated military use of atheism.

        3) Atheism isn’t a religious affiliation.

        4) There’s a lot wrong with me, starting with my neck and back problems. Be more specific, and you might get a relevant answer.

      2. For fuck’s sake, his being atheist is pretty much the first thing anyone over on Freethought Blogs mentions about the shootings, and I’m pretty sure they have nothing against atheists over there.
        Atheists sometimes do shitty things; sometimes they may do shitty things because they think their philosophy somehow justifies it; this is not the same as saying atheists are bad people.

    3. But next time I’ll just post “some people murdered by another person” lest I offend your delicate sensibilities. Who cares if that leaves out any relevant cultural dynamics?! It’s not like the most vocal exponents of the recent atheist movement have a problem with Islamophobia–oh wait. It is exactly like that.

    4. Fellow atheist! Having trouble seeing the problem, but I’m admittedly not involved in any kind of organized atheism. Are we supposedly murderous or intolerant as a people? I actually do know of a few blogs run by people I categorize as dickheads who are atheists who make it their mission to infantilize anybody with a faith-based belief. I’d call those folks aggressive, but I’m not sure that’s how EG meant it here.

      Just making sure – you agree that “white” is relevant, right? This isn’t a #notallwhitepeople thing?

      1. The guy was known for being exactly what EG said — an aggressive atheist who openly mocked religions and religious people.

        I’m getting tired of “movement atheists” — some of whom can be as misogynist and transphobic and generally intolerant as anybody else — taking every opportunity to equate their oppression with that of other, more distinct and visible, marginalized groups. There was an incident not long ago on Jezebel, after the Leelah Alcorn suicide became a story, when some young white male atheist in his 20’s tried to compare — and effectively equate — his experiences of being oppressed for his atheism with Leelah’s experiences of being rejected and oppressed by her family, and sent to conversion therapy, etc., for being trans. I tried to remain reasonably polite, so I just pointed out that the thread about Leelah was not the place for that discussion, but I was pretty upset.

        So, no, there was nothing wrong with EG mentioning this guy’s atheism in her description.

        Me, I’m an agnostic, albeit leaning more towards atheism on the religious spectrum. Being non-binary in that regard, I suffer more oppression than all of you.

        1. Movement atheism is one of the most embarrassing things to hit atheists in quite some time, in my atheistic opinion.

        3. I’m getting tired of “movement atheists” — some of whom can be as misogynist and transphobic and generally intolerant as anybody else — taking every opportunity to equate their oppression with that of other, more distinct and visible, marginalized groups. There was an incident not long ago on Jezebel, after the Leelah Alcorn suicide became a story, when some young white male atheist in his 20’s tried to compare — and effectively equate — his experiences of being oppressed for his atheism with Leelah’s experiences of being rejected and oppressed by her family, and sent to conversion therapy, etc., for being trans. I tried to remain reasonably polite, so I just pointed out that the thread about Leelah was not the place for that discussion, but I was pretty upset.

          I would agree that it’s not the place for that discussion as well, but I wouldn’t compare the oppression experience of all atheists (or all people of Jewish heritage,) to my own and I think that many atheists do have firm ground for referring to themselves as oppressed. Growing up in New York City with parents who were completely irreligious, my atheism was never ever an issue until I spent the summer before I went to college working in Vermont, where I wore my atheism like a badge of honor, after meeting Christian fundamentalists for the first time.

          However, like I said, my experience is not that of others. I have heard first hand countless stories of people who are from religious families, ESPECIALLY the female members of those families, who were shunned, disowned, even (arguably ritualistically,) beaten for not believing in and/or following the Bible, in the US, a country which has so-called freedom of religion. I am not a ‘movement atheist,’ more of a stationary atheist, I suppose, but I don’t scoff at the opression a large number of atheists face both in Western “enlightened'” countries and in countries with fundamentalist religious governments.

        1. And even if it was, mentioning his atheism is still meaningful because it helps us differentiate him from Christian Islamophobes, often thought to be the only perpetrators of anti-Muslim violence. Anyone can an Islamophobe, even a self-hating Muslim.

    6. it seems like his primary or one of his primary identifiers was atheist. It’s fair to refer to him by the same terms he referred to his self by.

      It’s also relevant because it’s kinda new. Last I checked there really aren’t atheist’s going around randomly shooting people.

      1. It never occurred to me to take offence that the OP’s linked article describes him as a ’46-year old man,’ so why would I take offence that he’s described as an ‘atheist’?

    7. The religious identifications of the victims is what makes this news. Of course the religious identification of the suspect is relevant.

  8. How do we know their religion was more relevant than their ethnicity in the murderer’s mind? They were all of Arab descent.

    1. I mean, if he had murdered Muslims of various origins, it would have made it obviously significant. But it’s not the case here.

      1. You really, truly think most people in the USA have any idea that “Muslim” is not synonymous with “Arab”? And that even if this guy did know that, he would have been equally likely to kill Arab Christians? You know that both the women he killed wore the hijab, right? Do you think that doesn’t signal “Muslim”?

  9. You know what, I’m sorry. You’re right. I came here after reading hundreds of Facebook posts/messages from relatives about the murders, the theme of which was along the lines of ‘see, I always knew you people were animals,’ and I was primed to go off. Sorry EG.

      1. I bet it did. Sorry you had to put up with that. It’s OK. We’ve all flown off the handle unnecessarily at one time or another.

        1. Thank you for accepting my apology. I just re-read my posts and I can barely recognize myself in them. I think I sort of semi-metaphorically blacked out for a second. I’m so, so sorry. That was incredibly shitty.

        2. Honestly, don’t worry about it for another minute. I didn’t enjoy reading them when they went up, but they didn’t do me any real harm, and I’ve certainly been in that place where something was exactly one more thing than I could handle and I took it the wrong way and blew up. I really do appreciate the apology, but I don’t want to think of you beating yourself up over this or anything. We’re cool.

    3. I thought I’d be completely removed from any of those type of comments, but I was just shocked to see this comment on FB by a friend of mine who is an amazing woman, sweet person, and a tireless advocate for the poor (…and apparently very religious:)

      Trust and believe it was about religion. Those who don’t know God walk around like the walking dead.

  10. I am wondering why their religion was mentioned right out of the gate with no investigation. It appears that he had several run-ins with the victims while armed and and was known to assault other tenants in the complex. There is no indication he shot them because they were Muslim.

    Finally, after the very first reports of the case assumed that religion was the cause, the press is starting to interview people. The second link contains a good piece by Kathleen Parker.

    From the WaPo:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/12/alleged-chapel-hill-killer-described-as-neighborhood-bully-obsessed-with-parking-and-noise/?tid=hp_mm&hpid=z3

    Kathleen Parker op-ed:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/02/11/the-irresponsible-reporting-in-the-chapel-hill-killings/

    1. And why mention that they were students? Or young? Or newlyweds? Just three people murdered by other person should get the job done!

      1. That’s Parker’s point: we don’t mention religion with the many other shootings that occur, unless later investigation indicates it’s a factor. And yes, what does age or anything else have to do with it. I’ve read hundreds of articles about robberies in stores and such that just say 2 people shot or injured. It’s not until days later that details of who the people were are released, and still they don’t mention the religion of the victims. Perhaps they should start; but it will be more incendiary than informative. New at 11: A Baptist and Methodist shot in convenience store robbery. Mormon killed in hit and run; more on that later.

        1. Most of the time those victims fit the “status quo” – white, middle-class, Christian, cis, hetero. Anyone outside of that box gets labeled: “A transgender teen was assaulted”, “a homeless man was arrested”, etc., etc.

        2. Also, it’s important for people to understand that Muslims can be innocent victims, too. They have as much as right to live – and to park wherever they damn please! – as anybody else!

        1. Did you read E.G.’s link? The religion of the victim has become relevant to Muslims hundreds of miles away who had no affiliation with the family.

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