In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Modern Dating

Via the Awl:

“After a first date on a Saturday night, if it gets past 11.48am on Monday without a text or call then there’s not much chance of a second outing, a survey has found.” Even better: “The three-day rule might have worked when all we had were landlines, but technology has revolutionised how we date. When everybody takes their mobile phone everywhere, waiting three days to get in touch just makes you look snooty or, worse, like you have run out of credit.”

True story: I was in Germany a while back, talking to a nice young German man about dating and cultural differences.

He said, “The way Americans date is weird.”

I said, “Well yes, but how so?”

He said, “The whole waiting three days until you call rule. Is that REALLY a rule? Do people actually do that? They always do it on TV and it seems weird.”

I said, “I hate when people do that, and I think it’s less common now than it used to be? But yes, some people actually do that. I think they learned it from Swingers, which seems like a bad way to learn anything. They don’t do that here?”

He said, “No, they don’t. I had never heard of it until I was watching American TV. And I have no idea what Swingers is?”

I said, “Don’t worry about Swingers. Anyway, dating in real life isn’t exactly like TV, even in the U.S. where it is indeed super weird. If someone waits three days to call me, I’m going to assume they’re not interested.”

He said, “Ok. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, how accurate is How I Met Your Mother?”


60 thoughts on Modern Dating

  1. But there’s still a certain expected amount of distance before contacting someone again. I tend to not do well with the initial space because my eternal worry machine kicks in and I start obsessing about how I have somehow screwed it all up.

    I still wait at least a couple days, though. Even though it’s torture.

  2. I never got the three-day rule. I mean, if you’re busy and you don’t call back right away, that’s fine, but otherwise, why not call the next day just to say “I had a good time, and I hope we can go out again”? Or, I suppose, if you want to ask the person out again, and it takes you a day or two to think of where you want to go, that also seems fine. But I’ve never liked a guy, but then stopped liking him because he called too soon. But I find people who are attracted to me more attractive than people who aren’t, so I’m just the wrong target audience for these little mind games. Also, I think arbitrary rules are stupid, whether they are aimed at men or women.

  3. I figured the wait-three-days rule was a television trope until I got on the internet and had online contact with people who said they followed it. Seems really weird to me…..I just Don’t Get It. Even before cell phones were common, in most of the midwest, a three-day-later call was code for Not That Into You.

  4. The three day rule is about a day or so too late, in my opinion.

    A quick call or text the next day, especially if you really had a good time seems about right.

    But don’t go overboard with a ton of calls/texts… that will just make you seem super creepy and will not make me want to go out with you again.

  5. Eh, I never ran into the three date rule when I was dating. Usually I knew before the date ends whether I wanted to see that person again and if so we’d make plans before the date ended for the next date or I’d drop his ass before dessert…or coffee…or whatever. But then I was young and my ginormous cell phone was only for emergencies. And I was also dating my way through the single dude phone book, so there were limited repeats (except that guy that looked exactly like a Hawaiian Wentworth Miller). YMMV.

  6. The 3-day rule is, in my estimation, an overreaction to the fact that if you call that very night, it’s too soon. If you call the next day, it COULD be perceived as too soon. Like Ashley said, it’s best to march to the beat of your own drum, but when you’re nervous and really do like someone and don’t want to blow it, it’s hard to trust your drum because it’s pounding a million beats per minute.

    That said, texting has made it so much easier. A quick text the next day to say you had a good time certainly is casual enough to not look creepy/desperate, and then if the other party texts back at least a little flirtatiously, then you can call whenever.

    I’ll also defend Swingers on several grounds because that movie helped me through some tough times, severely flawed though it may be.

  7. I was waiting for a HIMYM interjection as as soon as I saw the title. Really, only time I see that taken serious is that show. I am glad German’s do not disappoint my expectations.

  8. Arrrgh! Mind games are silly! I think it’s not only appealing but polite to thank someone for a nice date as soon as possible afterward. Why put your date in the awkward position of waiting and wondering when you could be going about the business of having more fun together?

    That being said, I agree with Kara: one call or text is perfectly sufficient. The person you’re calling may in fact be busy and will be glad to get back to you at their convenience. Relax.

  9. There’s nothing pushy or desperate with a simple “It was nice to meet you, I’d like to see you again next week.” Somehow, men think the moment they send a text like that, we ladies are going to reserve the chapel and start picking out bridesmaid dress colors!

  10. My Swedish friend has been known to say he finds it both startling and hilarious how closely Americans actually resemble our TV shows and movies.

  11. I wonder if it’s occurred to folks who support these sorts of mind games that the best way to figure out when to call someone is to… ask? I hope I’m not in the minority here!

  12. Echo Zen:
    I wonder if it’s occurred to folks who support these sorts of mind games that the best way to figure out when to call someone is to… ask? I hope I’m not in the minority here!

    What manner of nonsense is this? You, Sir or Madame, are speaking rubbish! The essence of courtship is deceit! Erm…I mean [i]mystique![/i] Yeah, that.

  13. La Lubu:
    I figured the wait-three-days rule was a television trope until I got on the internet and had online contact with people who said they followed it. Seems really weird to me…..I just Don’t Get It. Even before cell phones were common, in most of the midwest, a three-day-later call was code for Not That Into You.

    that’s what I’d immediately think. and yeah-that night is too soon, other than that, call when you want to.

    I also was cracking up at “I’ve never liked a guy, but then stopped liking him because he called too soon” too true. I’ve stopped liking a guy because he called too much(and that really only comes into play after multiple times in one day without an emergency), but never too soon. I’ve always kinda felt like the 3 day rule was someone taking too literally a woman trying to let him down gently and avoid saying “I’m not that into you” but that’s unprovable speculation.

  14. Kristen J.: that guy that looked exactly like a Hawaiian Wentworth Miller

    Aha! All these years I couldn’t remember where I’d seen that guy before. I wonder if he knows he has a famous doppelganger?

  15. Yeah.. I hate the three day rule.. by the third day I’m probably going ‘oh god.. he totally hates me’.

    I think the next day is reasonable.

  16. Wait, you’re supposed to just randomly call them for no reason? My MO has been to see at the end of the date if they want a second date and then contact them when I want to set up the second date. You’re supposed to call in between then? That seems silly.

  17. I hadn’t heard of the three day rule until I ran across it as an OKCupid question. So, following a rule that I didn’t know existed? Not likely.

    I like to hear something fairly soon. I do tend to text or email a note the next day saying that I enjoyed myself. Sometimes the guy beats me to it and my thank you is in response to his. Sometimes another date gets planned and sometimes not.

    The one rule I do follow is that no matter how into someone I am, I do not send waaaay more texts/emails/etc. than he is sending to me. No matter how much I just HAVE to share whatever I am feeling/seeing/doing, I wait until I get a reply of some sort first. If he’s really into me, he’ll reply, but, an avalanche of texts or emails can be unnerving….

    And as I have been on the receiving end of that avalanche, I know this from my own experience. I don’t do it.

  18. I didn’t think the rule was that you should *wait* three days before you call, but that if someone didn’t call *within* three days, they weren’t interested.

    1. I didn’t think the rule was that you should *wait* three days before you call, but that if someone didn’t call *within* three days, they weren’t interested.

      Clearly you have not set your dating strategy on Swingers.

  19. The thing is, who should call who? I’m a woman who enjoys making the first move, but this waiting-period-rule business used to throw me for a loop. So my “rule” now is that, if I’ve had a good time, I call or what not. If there’s no response within a week, I drop it. I figure any guy who doesn’t want me to contact him first is either not interested, or is the kind of guy I don’t really want after all. Simple!

  20. Greg:
    Wait, you’re supposed to just randomly call them for no reason? My MO has been to see at the end of the date if they want a second date and then contact them when I want to set up the second date. You’re supposed to call in between then? That seems silly.

    YMMV, but talking to someone I like is the best way to keep me liking you, and get me liking you more. so I highly recommend it. I can be cynical and add-talking when it isn’t involving “meeting up” and trying to get into my pants is seen as a good sign

  21. I’m American and I have never heard of this in my life. I must not watch enough sitcoms.

    I agree that texting would probably be the way to go now, since the call-ee won’t feel pressured to talk and can reply whenever (or never, if they think the date went badly). Usually I just did Greg’s “set up next date at end of successful date” thing but then again I pretty much only dated (and married!) friends so it was way more casual. Dating itself is pretty weird!

  22. I am usually good at guessing by the end of date 1 whether there will be a date 2. If I then didn’t hear from someone for three days, or was not personally interested in making contact within three days, I would assume that date 2 was off the table.

  23. I think they learned it from Swingers, which seems like a bad way to learn anything.

    The kicker is that of all the stupid things a person could learn from Swingers, on this point they’d actually have to completely miss what Swingers itself is unambiguously trying to say, which is that this is actually really quite a stupid rule.

  24. Currently dating someone new! My very important thoughts on this matter:

    1. HOLY FUCK I HATE DATING. I already skip most of the stupid “will they/won’t they” and fuck on the first date if I feel like it, but God forbid I REALLY like the guy I fuck – because then I second-guess the shit out of everything he says. Because the dating? It’s a motherfucking game. And when it’s not? It is. You cannot build a hotel until you get all three properties, and if you misroll, you’re screwed.

    2. My understanding was that you wait to call for up to three days after MEETING someone. Actually, I’ve heard up to a week for that initial contact. After a first date, I was unaware of a norm.

    3. If you slut it up like me, most guys will call/text the next day to say they had fun if they want to see you again. Moral of the story? Fuck like a bunny and you won’t wait to fuck again if y’all have that kind of chemistry.

    (JK, don’t fuck like a bunny unless it’s your thing.)

  25. I recently lost my cell and then met a cool woman after I lost it. I explained to her that I had lost it and she should call my landline so I could have her number. Then, I waited a day and called her on my land-line (yes, I still have one!) and left a message. Now we are playing phone tag but I think she’s still interested in hanging out.

    The moral of that boring story is: DON’T LOSE YOUR CELL! Also, the rule about waiting and then calling is stupid and probably reinforced by movies and TV. But, yes I still waited a day!

  26. Personally, if I’m excited about someone, waiting 3 days would mean they’re not as excited about me. A guy did this to me once, I felt manipulated, and refused a third date after he’d waited three days each time, which apparently just made him want to date me MORE, and then called and emailed and even sent flowers (no, we never went out again. Three years later, even though I’m now married, he still sends me an occasional email to see “how things are working out” for me).

  27. 2. My understanding was that you wait to call for up to three days after MEETING someone. Actually, I’ve heard up to a week for that initial contact. After a first date, I was unaware of a norm.

    That was my understanding too, and in my experience it’s made a lot of sense, even if the majority of that sense is less gameplay and more just how the days of the week that you meet someone and that are good for a date work out.

  28. The only date I’ve ever gone on was in high school with this guy who was kind of a tool, but who took me out in his beat up car (that he was sooo proud of, but that I secretly mocked because I’m kind of a jerk) and sat through Pride and Prejudice for me. He sorta sighed and rolled his eye the whole time, and after that I faked laryngitis for a month and refused let him kiss me (because he was a terrible kisser, and I was 16 and for some reason didn’t want to just DTMFA) until he finally just broke up with me due to lake of nookie.

    I’m 22 now and dates so far have consisted of dorm room groping and “want to come over for quesadillas” at 11pm, which is just fairly transparent code for a booty call…so looking back, the reluctant Pride and Prejudice watching and beat up old station wagon was possibly the most romantic night of my life??

    Sigh.

  29. PrettyAmiable:

    Because the dating? It’s a motherfucking game. And when it’s not? It is. You cannot build a hotel until you get all three properties, and if you misroll, you’re screwed.

    This is how i’ve always felt about dating and luckily have never had to do much of it. I don’t know if it is a UK thing or a mixture of age, location, social group and generally being English, but i’ve always found guys in the UK rarely go up to someone they don’t know and ask them out on a date.

    The boyfriends i’ve had have always been the result of a ‘group-hang’, which went something like: gathering at someone’s house/the pub/ bar etc with friends/colleagues, drink, meet someone you don’t know but have at least one friend/acquaintance in common, hit it off, keep drinking, snog at the end of the night then forget about it.

    If you keep on bumping into the person at social gatherings and always end up snogging and/or shagging by the end of the night, then eventually you wake up one morning and discover that that person is now sort of your boyfriend or girlfriend and start making plans to meet outside of the pub or bedroom. If not then you just chock it up to a a fling and move on.

    It’s not exactly a sophisticated system, but i guess it gets some of the game playing out of the way as you have a) already had sex a few times which takes the pressure off ‘motives’ in dating b) been drunk and hungover in front of this person (and possibly had your hair held back by them a few times) and they still want to hang out with you, which sorts out the pesky “do they really like me” question. It doesn’t always end well, but by the time you are actually going out on dates one on one a level of comfort with each other has already been reached so it doesn’t feel staged or game like.

    Of course it’s not the British rule of thumb, but always how it seemed to work out for me and my friends. One thing i feel fairly confident about generalising is texting, Brits embrace the power of the text like no other nation. It’s contact but not invasive, so good for budding relationships/hangs/multiple shags.

  30. Sabrina:
    There’s nothing pushy or desperate with a simple “It was nice to meet you, I’d like to see you again next week.”Somehow, men think the moment they send a text like that, we ladies are going to reserve the chapel and start picking out bridesmaid dress colors!

    My understanding of the “3 day rule” based on the “literature” is that guys do it so as to not seem “too desperate”, which is of course the kiss of dating death according to today’s conventional wisdom. Though it’s interesting to see another perspective on it.

    I used to follow this crap to the letter until I realized (too late) that the best strategy to dating is to assume that the other person is a normal human being and pretty much shares your fears and anxieties about love and dating no matter their gender. Not that it’s given me much more success, but it’s made things slightly less stressful.

  31. I find the veracity of your story to be a little dubious.

    I’m always skeptical when someone just so happens to perfectly have a story that manages to not only assist in the blog post they want to make, but back their point up as ostensibly “correct”.

    Especially when it plays on the stereotype of “that silly foreigner, just not understanding how Americans do things, and summing up American culture as sitcoms”.

    1. I find the veracity of your story to be a little dubious.

      I’m always skeptical when someone just so happens to perfectly have a story that manages to not only assist in the blog post they want to make, but back their point up as ostensibly “correct”.

      Especially when it plays on the stereotype of “that silly foreigner, just not understanding how Americans do things, and summing up American culture as sitcoms”.

      Yes, you’re right, I made up this story entirely to support a one-off blog post about… a random article I saw on the Awl. There IS no point here to back up as “correct,” so I’m not sure how making up a story would do that? And for the record, the story wasn’t playing in the stereotype of silly foreigners; it was playing into the stereotype of fucking stupid American sitcoms.

  32. I’ll also defend Swingers on several grounds because that movie helped me through some tough times, severely flawed though it may be.

    You don’t have to defend Swingers; it defends itself by showing all those head games are wrong. He gets the girl by being himself and Vince Vaughn looks like a prick.

    Someone misunderstanding that movie to think Vaughn and Sue are the heroes is similar to the people who think Gordon Gecko is the hero of Wall Street

  33. Christina:
    The only date I’ve ever gone on was in high school with this guy who was kind of a tool, but who took me out in his beat up car (that he was sooo proud of, but that I secretly mocked because I’m kind of a jerk) and sat through Pride and Prejudice for me.He sorta sighed and rolled his eye the whole time, and after that I faked laryngitis for a month and refused let him kiss me (because he was a terrible kisser, and I was 16 and for some reason didn’t want to just DTMFA) until he finally just broke up with me due to lake of nookie.

    I’m 22 now and dates so far have consisted of dorm room groping and “want to come over for quesadillas” at 11pm, which is just fairly transparent code for a booty call…so looking back, the reluctant Pride and Prejudice watching and beat up old station wagon was possibly the most romantic night of my life??

    Sigh.

    I wish I had gone to college later. The Bush 41 years were just hard on a shy boy

  34. One would assume your point would be “This particular arbitrary dating “thing” is bad/wrong/silly”.

    I’m just saying, it’s mighty convenient, especially because you’re using that stereotype of the non-American who sums us up entirely by our pop culture.

    It’s like the idiots who think the entirety of Japan is giant robots, pocky, and schoolgirls.

    1. Yes, I totally made up a pointless story. You’re right! My only mistake was not involving a cab driver with Very Deep Thoughts (Although also, for the record, I’ve never actually seen Modern Family, so that was a REALLY smooth move on my part, being able to reference a television show that I know exists but have never watched, and which apparently supports my point).

    2. And also? I’m not using a stereotype of a non-American who sums us up entirely by our pop culture. I’m relaying a story of a “foreigner” (although this was in Germany, so I think I was the foreigner?) who, as many folks do, consumed a lot of American pop culture and wanted to know if this one piece of it was accurate, because it seemed like such a Big Rule but it had no counterpart in his culture. We also spent a lot of time talking about politics.

      Also we were flirting in a bar, so I think maybe he wanted an excuse to bring up dating and sex.

      OR MAYBE I’M MAKING THIS ALL UP BECAUSE IT’S SO CONVEEEEEEEENIENT.

  35. JS: Three years later, even though I’m now married, he still sends me an occasional email to see “how things are working out” for me).

    Wise choice to dump him.

  36. But why would you be flirting when you SO CLEARLY HATE THE MENZ, JILL???????

    YOUR POINT AND EXISTENCE IS INVALID, Q.E.D.

    1. But why would you be flirting when you SO CLEARLY HATE THE MENZ, JILL???????

      Damn it, you caught me! Clearly this whole tale is false. How do you even know my name is Jill? That’s an awfully convenient name to have…

  37. Wow:
    I find the veracity of your story to be a little dubious.

    FYI, saying shit like this doesn’t make you sound any smarter. It does make you sound like a giant tool, though.

  38. Wow:

    I’m just saying, it’s mighty convenient, especially because you’re using that stereotype of the non-American who sums us up entirely by our pop culture.

    It is convenient when, over a lifetime/few decades of experiences, you can remember one or two that are apt when discussing something.

    Wait, not “convenient.” What’s the word I want? Oh, right. “Normal.” That’s the word.

    1. So using words that I use on a daily basis bothers you? Too bad. I don’t exist to make your life better or easier or more comfy.

      Well, this week you appear to exist in order to irritate me, and it’s beginning to work! Goodbye.

  39. So using words that I use on a daily basis bothers you? Too bad. I don’t exist to make your life better or easier or more comfy.

    That said, my entire point was simply it’s a pretty common stereotype, the non-American who seems unable to separate our pop culture and our actual culture.

    I also don’t often trust personal anecdotes on the internet, because, well, this is the internet. Grain of salt, and all that.

  40. Wow: It’s like the idiots who think the entirety of Japan is giant robots, pocky, and schoolgirls.

    You forgot Godzilla. WHO’S THE IDIOT NOW? Godzilla fights robots in Tokyo every day. Right? …Right?

  41. Godzilla is a neomonster and fights other neomonsters, not robots god! You are just so ignorant about another culture. How do you live with yourself?!!!
    Also, mochi is so much better than pocky. Why can’t the stereotype be about the food that tastes better.

    PrettyAmiable: You forgot Godzilla. WHO’S THE IDIOT NOW? Godzilla fights robots in Tokyo every day. Right? …Right?

  42. I’ve never heard of this “three days rule”, but then again I’m French, and I’ve heard of these kinds of “dating rules”, just different ones. I think this kind of rules is collectively made up by teens to serve as a framework to cope with the scary novelty of the whole courting stuff.

    At least that’s what I got from external observation: I’ve never really been a teenager.

  43. Oh, and isn’t it CONVENIENT how all of us Germans are showing up in this thread and find the whole thing funny? Secret! We’re being paid.
    Really, I don’t get how “not assuming my culture = your culture” is supposed to be insulting? We had these Canadian friends while on a student’s exchange and had conversations like these all the time. Only way funnier.
    (The only insulting thing was the David Hasselhoff one. You know which. SERIOUSLY GUYS.)

  44. Matt: Also, mochi is so much better than pocky. Why can’t the stereotype be about the food that tastes better.

    That is a damned lie. Almond pocky is the greatest thing ever. Unless we’re talking mochi ice cream, in which case…yes, you’re right.

  45. Come to think of it, I find it rather insulting that everybody in the world should know everything about US culture, and I mean REALISTICALLY and not through any media! because obvs it’s the most important culture in the world! so the rest of us are all getting the knowledge transferred through RAYS OF MAGIC! Except for those of us who are too thick-headed, and those are the stupid cliché foreigners! No really Wow, I’d say complete calling out-fail. But who am I?

  46. 3-day rule is ridiculous. Just tap her on the shoulder in the morning and ask her out again goddammit.

    Or him.

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