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The Newest in Creepy from Crisis Pregnancy Centers

There’s another strategy that’s gotten less attention: an under-the-radar campaign by large anti-choice organizations, like the National Institute of Family and Life Advocates and Focus on the Family, to fund and guide the conversion of CPCs into licensed, limited-service medical clinics, ramping up their services to include pregnancy tests and ultrasound. Although they offer only limited women’s health services — none offer mammograms, for instance — medical clinic status has led many to start offering early prenatal care, prenatal vitamins, STI testing and even eye exams. A few have started advertising pap smears.

I’m doing some shameless friend-promotion here, but this piece is important. Most Feministe readers are no doubt familiar with crisis pregnancy centers, organized and funded by anti-abortion activists to steer pregnant people into giving birth instead of having an abortion.

But my colleague Tana details how the newest tactic is to turn CPCs into actual medical clinics, offering free health care in addition to antichoice “counseling.”

This is deeply, deeply cynical stuff. We have a massive health care crisis in this country, and most of the same right-wingers who fund this stuff funded politicians who fought tooth and nail to prevent health care reform from coming to pass, who helped water down the bill til we got some very weak reforms, and furthermore who have been attacking the funding for clinics that actually do provide (reproductive) health care to poor folks around the country.

So you’re desperate, you’ve got no health insurance, and your local Planned Parenthood had to close because the state took away its funding. But there’s a nice new clinic on the corner and it’s advertising free care!

As long as that free care comes with a side of proselytizing and pressure to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, that is.

Ugh. I can’t even handle it.

Read the whole piece. It’s frightening, and it’s important.


41 thoughts on The Newest in Creepy from Crisis Pregnancy Centers

  1. Is it wrong of me to think this could be turned to advantage, I mean if they can lie, why can’t someone else do it to get funding to set up an independent woman’s clinic?

    I think if they really gave a hoot about all the “babies”, they be funding childcare and sure start programs for impoverished women who want to keep a pregnancy but who can’t afford it.

  2. I honestly don’t know what to do to stop this. I’ll be making donations to Planned Parenthood, but what do I do to stop the crazies from shaming and scaring women into doing something they don’t want??

  3. Macha – Make sure that you educate people as much as you can. Only knowledge can stop the crazies…

  4. Macha:
    I honestly don’t know what to do to stop this.I’ll be making donations to Planned Parenthood, but what do I do to stop the crazies from shaming and scaring women into doing something they don’t want??

    As someone with a mental illness that often manifests in ways some people have called “crazy”, it’s very upsetting to me to see the term (or in this case, “crazies”) equated with people who deceive, manipulate and coerce others into complying with their repressive and anti-choice political agenda. They’re not the same thing at all.

  5. Here’s a weird thought. The antis harass and assault people outside proper clinics. Why shouldn’t pro-choice people stand outside crisis pregnancy centers and instead of yelling and screaming, just tell the women who are walking in that, by the way, this place doesn’t supply abortion referrals or any kind of health care (if that is true)? Basically call their fraud by informing their prospective clients what’s really going on.We wouldn’t need to go en masse, just one or two, totally non-threatening, just informing people what kind of place it really is.

    Has this been tried?

  6. So you’re saying women’s health clinics that do not offer mammograms are substandard?

    Interesting, since no Planned Parenthood offers mammograms.

  7. evil fizz,

    You’ve fallen for Planned Parenthood’s clever marketing. Read your link carefully. PP of SE IA only refers for mammograms:

    “… we will assist you in setting up an appointment with a local medical provider for your FREE screening.”

    To reiterate, NO U.S. Planned Parenthood offers mammograms:

    http://biggovernment.com/lrose/2011/03/30/planned-parenthood-ceos-mammogram-claims-are-false/

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/planned-parenthood-challenged-on-purported-mammogram-claim/2011/03/30/AFjCFO3B_story.html

  8. portia’s suggestion is useful. And respectful, as opposed to what many protesters do. Visitors have a right to know if they are being deceived.

    And if someone actually is going to give birth, as opposed to being tricked or forced into giving birth, why not take advantage of these centers or “real” services if it is most convenient?

  9. Jill,

    If they don’t have doctors and nurses, and if they don’t give out medical information, they should not be called clinics. Full. Stop.

  10. GASP…You mean women who go to PP get a mammogram from an imaging center! Just like all the other people who have health insurance?!? Why, that’s completely shocking. I thought all doctors had imaging equipment IN THEIR OFFICES.

    Keep shoveling we’re not buying it.

  11. @Jill Stanek: Wait, did you really link to something produced by Lila Rose to support your position?

    Bwahahahaha. That’s awesome.

  12. So you’re saying women’s health clinics that do not offer mammograms are substandard?

    Interesting, since no Planned Parenthood offers mammograms.

    At least Planned Parenthood will refer for procedures if they don’t perform them. Try getting a referral for an abortion from a CPC.

  13. Tori: As someone with a mental illness that often manifests in ways some people have called “crazy”, it’s very upsetting to me to see the term (or in this case, “crazies”) equated with people who deceive, manipulate and coerce others into complying with their repressive and anti-choice political agenda. They’re not the same thing at all.

    My apologies. Although, I feel that the definition of the word is changing, in common use, from association to people suffering from mental illness (such as myself, as well) toward being closer in meaning to “fanatical,” “zealot,” or “extremist.” Regardless, if you were upset by it, I am sorry I used it.

  14. Jill’s accusing us of lying? The same Jill who got fired from her nursing job for lying about employers killing babies? Next thing you know, she’ll try claiming Chinese people eat fetuses, or that condoms cause cancer. (I’ve always wondered if she’s secretly into sadomasochism, given how she always ends up letting the fact-checkers humiliate her credibility whenever she opens her mouth.) :-p

  15. evil fizz: Expecting you wouldn’t watch Lila Rose’s video which (included several audios of PP workers admitting they don’t perform mammograms), I also included a link to a Washington Post story corroborating same. Did you see that?

    Ismone: They can’t be called medical clinics unless they abide by strict state/federal guidelines that include the fact they employ nurses and doctors. Furthermore, the doctors pregnancy care clinics employ are all local and readily available, unlike many PP doctors that are “circuit riders” – fly/drive in for just on abortion days.

    Echo:

    1. Christ Hospital didn’t fire me for “lying about employers killing babies.” Christ Hospital admitted it aborted babies alive and let them die. (McKinney, Dave. “Bill proposes care for fetus after abortion.” Chicago Sun-Times, Mar. 31, 2001). Christ Hospital fired me for publicizing the fact.

    2. You may not want to believe Chinese people eat aborted babies, but I reported that from a reputable Epoch Times story (http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-3-29/53482.html). Furthermore, have you read more news, reported just a couple weeks ago by the IBTimes in San Francisco, “China’s new lucrative business: Dead babies turn into stamina booster pills” (http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/articles/193371/20110805/china-dead-baby-pill-stamina-booster-cannibal-placenta.htm)?

    3. Please corroborate where I have ever said “condoms cause cancer.”

  16. As long as that free care comes with a side of proselytizing and pressure to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, that is.

    And the free care might very well also come with a side of discouraging you from using BC in the future and pressure to surrender your eventual-infant for adoption to a Good Christian Couple who can give the child Disneyland Vacations, and if you can’t then you would be a bad mom so how dare you want to KEEP your own child.

  17. I tried posting before but my post never appeared…

    Not all “antis” oppose expanded health care access for the poor & uninsured, contraception, and everything else that women should be able to have freely for its own sake and for its indispensible value in reducing abortion & alleviating its root causes.

    In fact, I cofounded a pro every life organization that advocates for *all* these reproductive rights. We are very interested in making sure that agencies which do not refer for or provide abortions are all upfront about this policy, and that they all honor clinical practice standards for contraceptive care, for example.

    And we would like to dialogue with and engage in cooperative action on shared concerns with prochoice feminists.

  18. Thing is, I think women have a right to have doctors who they can trust. A “doctor” at a crisis pregnancy center has already demonstrated- just by applying for the job- that they will choose their faith over their patient’s best interests. There are far too many anti-choice pharmacists and doctors already, there shouldn’t be custom made job opportunities to encourage them.

  19. What is preventing you all from starting up your own version of CPCs and preaching your own gospel?

  20. To some extent it depends how callous the patient can be. I’ve used a Christian counseling service for a free pregnancy test knowing they would prosletise. It was instant and free which suited my needs at the time.

    The look on the counselors face when I asked about the sexual history questionnaire was priceless. Is this for medical or legal reasons? It’s a fair question and it’s need to know information. I was monogamous so from the perspective of recommending a birth control method I would answer one way, but I wasn’t legally married so the next-of-kin was my mother, not boyfriend. But watching the nice Christian lady try to back pedal from invasive questions about information any medical provide absolutely had to have was funny.

    @Ardiril
    There are two reasons not to reinvent the wheel. An national organization already exists that provides high quality comprehensive reproductive health care. And I don’t believe I have a right to coerce or deceive other people about their medical decisions or family planning. Those aren’t my choices to make, I believe in this little value called liberty and self determination, so no gospel/brainwashing/exploitation is required.

    It’s also worth noting that Christian organizations such as Catholic Health Care West which focus on medical care and not coercing nonbelievers to practice religious dogma, cooperate with Planned Parenthood to provide prenatal and maternity care services.

  21. CaliOak,

    Which Planned Parenthood provides prenatal and maternity care services? Source please. I looked up every Southern California Planned Parenthood and couldn’t find one that provided prenatal or maternity care. By maternity care do you mean post-partum?

    Provide source that CHW hospitals and clinics refer to Planned Parenthood. Doing so would be contrary to the Catholic faith.

  22. Jill, I do appreciate you took time to respond to my comment (despite its English sarcasm, which I’ll concede was uncalled for). Since you responded respectfully, I’ll grant to you the courtesy of a response (with a side of English sarcasm, but none personally directed at you this time.)

    Regarding the Christ Hospital incident, you claimed fetuses that survived abortion were left to die. Your claims were corroborated by another nurse, Baker. Now, by itself this doesn’t indicate much – groups of people corroborate accounts of alien abductions all the time (which have all the credibility of Chinese fetus-eating stories, but I don’t want to impugn the credibility of folks who’ve been manhandled by mysterious lizard people). An IDPH investigation later cleared Christ Hospital of wrongdoing, not just because they found no evidence to substantiate your claims but also because none of your other colleagues could corroborate them – the only one who did was Baker, who like you was known for anti-abortion outspokenness over the fact that Christ Hospital did abortions at all – and this was all prior to the whole row in 1999.

    Now, it’s possible all the folks at Christ Hospital were actually Communist sleeper agents who were covering for each other and hated children and kittens – but since neither you nor I have any evidence of this, I’ll avoid entertaining this possibility, brilliant as it might sound.

    Of course you reference an article by Dave McKinney – often cited by anti-abortion publications – in which you claim that Christ Hospital admits it lets aborted fetuses die. Conveniently this reference always lacks an online version for casual readers to verify – but as luck would have it, I love Dave McKinney (he was Statehouse bureau chief where my family worked), so I have a copy of his article, which shows your claim to be a falsehood. The 4th paragraph of the article actually states that Christ Hospital does NOT leave aborted fetuses to die – it provides “compassionate care” to everyone, even if “between 10 percent and 20 percent of fetuses with genetic defects that are aborted survive for short periods outside the womb.” (Hey, it’s a doctor’s professional obligation – s/he can’t just shoot them like Scott Roeder.) Those who believe your claim based on Dave’s article are those without the resources – or desire – to fact-check your sources.

    As for claims that Chinese folks eat fetuses… heck, I won’t even bother rebutting an anti-Chinese story published by the famously disreputable, anti-Chinese-government “Epoch Times” – a paper which in 2006 had to apologise to Bush for the conduct of one of their journalists. Their stories are as credible as arguments that condoms cause cancer (something you haven’t personally claimed but your allies like Tina Holewinski have), or that South Korean scientists have mastered human cloning. But since I have a background in Asian cultures, I’ll admit this – Chinese baby-eating is disturbingly common in Asia, and is an issue I’ve become increasingly concerned with over the years. A friend from China actually posted photographic evidence of this practice on his blog, which you can see here: http://peer-see.com/blog/photo-evidence-of-baby-eating-in-china/2008/02/24/ . I wish more feminists were up in arms over this.

  23. It isn’t surprising that PP contracts out mammograms.

    The equipment required is quite expensive, and the expertise required to take and to read the mammograms is also expensive. A special post- general radiology residency fellowship is required to be certified as a specialist in mammography. Quality control practices mandated are complex, for a screening test. Mammograms are very poorly reimbursed, and many private radiology practices simply will not perform them. All these factors lead to high-volume mammography centers, often associated with university hospitals, as the best option for quality care.

    General practice offices stopped doing their own radiology 50 years ago. PP is providing standard of care by referring to specialists. PP’s role is to contract with the mammography group for the lowest possible fee, possible because PP has bulk buying power and the mammography group wants guaranteed volume for screening tests.

    I get my mammograms at a university mammography specialty clinic.

  24. My mates and I got a good laugh when Lila Rose tried claiming that PP lied about offering mammogram. It’s common knowledge among actual professionals that PP provides mammogram access through referrals to local partnered medical providers. That’s why cutting PP’s funding would cut off mammogram access for millions of women — you need a referral to get a mammogram, and since Planned Parenthood is the sole point of access for many women…? But hey, nice try, Ms. Rose! Maybe next time! 😉

    Note: For lurkers curious about how this typical anti-choice lie came into being — Ms. Rose claimed that CEO Cecile Richards lied about PP health centres performing mammograms onsite. Of course Richards never said that — she said cutting Title X would cause millions of women to “lose their health care access, not to abortion services, to basic family planning. You know, mammograms, cancer screenings, cervical cancer.”

    (Of course Ms. Rose’s hoax videos have long been discredited by the FBI, so I’m curious why anyone would link to a known liar and expect us to be impressed. But hey, anti-choicers have always had a slippery relationship with basic facts — like the fact that PP health centres in Arizona and Texas DO perform mammograms, or that the larger health centres DO provide prenatal care. The ones in SoCal used to as well, before they began referring to partnered OB/GYN providers due to budget cuts.)

    1. My mates and I got a good laugh when Lila Rose tried claiming that PP lied about offering mammogram. It’s common knowledge among actual professionals that PP provides mammogram access through referrals to local partnered medical providers. That’s why cutting PP’s funding would cut off mammogram access for millions of women — you need a referral to get a mammogram, and since Planned Parenthood is the sole point of access for many women…? But hey, nice try, Ms. Rose! Maybe next time! 😉

      Right? By Lila Rose’s logic, my ob/gyn office doesn’t offer mammograms either. I mean, they don’t — they don’t have mammogram or sonogram machines right there in the room. They determine whether you need a mammogram, and they give you a referral so you can get one. That is how medical practice works, generally. PP is not an outlier there.

  25. Ah anti-choice chucklefucks, how you make me smile.

    For any Brits in here, we’re not safe from these Christofascist thugs either. Our very own Nadine Dorries (who also lied, when she too claimed to be a nurse that had seen “babies left to die” in a virtual carbon copy of Stanek’s fantasist foaming) is trying to have her friend, the Top-Hatted Bastard Child of Satan (Cameron, who else), mandate that pregnancy counselling is only to be carried out by religious CPCs here in Blighty, and not by any institution that is associated with abortion, as they are “profit mills”. Yes, the FREE counselling prior to FREE abortions = fat profits in her twisted imagination.

  26. The kind of funding that these organizations would need in order to convert into actual licensed medical practices is fairly high. Hiring actual licensed medical providers who are willing to throw in their lot with the agenda. Hiring professional clinic management who know how to deal with the various and sundry requirements and issues around real medical practices. Paying for malpractice and liability insurance. Moving into facilities that conform with legal requirements for clinics, or renovating current spaces. Purchasing necessary equipment. Paying for HIPAA training and monitoring compliance (perhaps the largest hurdle, as one of their common techniques is spreading clients’ personal information to their supporters in the form of prayer requests by phone and email).

    The upfront costs would run several hundred thousand dollars for each clinic conversion, and would increase annual operating costs astronomically. Even if it were only one CPC in each metro area, this is a multimillion dollar undertaking; it’s not going to happen quickly, even with Focus on the Family behind the push. I honestly wonder if this is a legitimate campaign or a way to fill coffers that have dwindled in the economic crisis.

  27. Echo, I have no idea what you mean by “English sarcasm.” I did not intend to respond to you sarcastically whatsoever, fyi.

    The Dave McKinney article substantiates that 1) babies were aborted alive at Christ Hospital; and 2) they were left to die, which is what “compassionate care,” aka “comfort care,” means. This is not medical care.

    The IDPH investigation, and AG Jim Ryan’s subsequent letter, determined Christ Hospital was doing nothing ILLEGAL, which is why Born Alive legislation was immediately introduced in Illinois.

    Allison Baker and I testified under oath before a congressional subcommittee (me twice), and Christ Hospital never publicly denied the veracity of our testimonies nor sued us for defamation. It couldn’t.

    I’m glad we at least agree Asian cultures are known to eat human fetuses.

    Back to my original comment, and in closure, the author of the quoted snip implies that women’s health clinics not providing mammograms are deficient. Again, Planned Parenthood does not perform mammograms, so does that make PP deficient?

    Your contention that PP is the sole referral agency in some instances for mammograms is false. Any county health agency is equipped to refer, as is any Medicaid provider, as is any Federally Qualified Health Center (http://www.raconline.org/maps/mapfiles/fqhc.png, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federally_Qualified_Health_Center). Of course, there’s also google.

    Please provide corroboration that PPs in TX and AZ perform mammograms. I refer you back to the 3-30-11 WashPo article wherein PPFA spokesperson Stuart Schear (why a man, btw?) stated, “Like the vast majority of primary care physicians and ob-gyns, we refer our patients to other facilities for mammograms when indicated…”

  28. Well, on that I agree with you. You clearly have no idea about (English) sarcasm.

    Jill Stanek:
    Echo, I have no idea what you mean by “English sarcasm.”

    Jill Stanek:
    I’m glad we at least agree Asian cultures are known to eat human fetuses.

    Oh yes, between the puppy and kitten course. It’s a pressing feminist issue.

  29. Wait, Ms. Stanek, you’re English? That’s the only circumstance under which one would think “English sarcasm” was a reference to your comment.

    Echo Zen:
    Jill, I do appreciate you took time to respond to my comment (despite its English sarcasm, which I’ll concede was uncalled for). Since you responded respectfully, I’ll grant to you the courtesy of a response (with a side of English sarcasm, but none personally directed at you this time.)

    It’s clear here that I was apologising for my earlier sarcasm toward you — but I digress. Let’s talk about Dave for a moment.

    Look, you’re a nurse, so maybe this is old hat to you, but I’m going to explain for context’s sake (for lurkers who just got here): Believe it or not, infanticide is illegal, no matter which state you live in (including Kansas, where a “pro-life” governor is busy stripping funds for infant healthcare). If Christ Hospital was leaving babies to die, Sparta-style, that would be illegal, no? The IDPH found no evidence of this – because if viable fetuses were being delivered as babies, then existing Illinois law (and good ol’ Hippocrates) would have required doctors to provide medical care to the baby, even after an abortion. If Christ Hospital was pulling a Sparta on perfectly viable babies, nobody but Baker corroborated it.

    Therefore, IBAIPA was pure political theatre – it would have done nothing to change how doctors are required to treat babies even after an attempted abortion. And since babies generally aren’t possible till the third trimester (according to the last embryology textbook I read), and how third-trimester abortions are only permissible for nonviable or life-threatening pregnancies, it’s doubtful that many post-abortion babies are being delivered anywhere in this Solar System. IBAIPA was intended to intimidate doctors by injecting (more) politics into people’s healthcare – which is why the Illinois Medical Society also opposed it. (Then again, maybe they secretly hate babies or something?)

    Christ Hospital did confirm (through Dave McKinney) that 10 to 20 percent of nonviable aborted fetuses with genetic defects “survive for short periods outside the womb,” and that it provided compassionate (i.e. comfort) care in all cases. At no point did Dave substantiate your original claim that viable babies were being left to die after attempted abortions, in people’s utility closets.

    Besides, you make it sound bad that Christ Hospital provided comfort instead of medical care for nonviable living fetuses. On the contrary (for any lurkers reading this), comfort care is common for nonviable fetuses – for two good reasons! Firstly, if a fetus is legally brain-dead, then no amount of medical care will return it to life, even if its heart is clinically “alive.” But more importantly, if a dying fetus has a working nervous system… then many doctors and parents will chose NOT to torture the fetus by providing “medical care” that’ll only prolong its suffering! In these cases, comfort care is the best choice –wrap it in a blanket, let the parents hold it and give them time to say goodbye. My mates and I find this to be terribly… sensible.

    On a related note, PP in Waco, Texas definitely does mammogram screenings, thanks to “a grant from the local Central Texas Affiliate of the Susan G. Komen Foundation.” (If can go to http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppwaco/BCCS%20Komen-28753.htm to see if you qualify.) I checked with Arizona though, and they stopped doing mobile screenings in 2009 – I suspect budget cuts have something to do with that. But hey, that’s what I like about PP. They offer easy-access reproductive health services and referrals, unlike other FQHCs that focus on substance abuse or migrant health. If PP’s the best, why not use them? (And don’t be surprised that men support PP. Except under expensive circumstances, it takes two to reproduce.)

    Jill Stanek:
    I’m glad we at least agree Asian cultures are known to eat human fetuses.

    Ah, but Ms. Stanek, I never claimed that Asians eat fetuses, human or otherwise, did I? I merely confirmed that baby-eating does indeed occur in China on a massive scale, in millions… no, billions of people’s households every night. I can’t even describe the look on my face when my friend first posted photos on his blog. For any lurkers reading this, I’ll repost the link so you can all digest it for yourselves: http://peer-see.com/blog/photo-evidence-of-baby-eating-in-china/2008/02/24/ .

    (Sorry. It’s my English sarcasm, I tell you.)

  30. “Furthermore, the doctors pregnancy care clinics employ are all local and readily available, unlike many PP doctors that are “circuit riders” – fly/drive in for just on abortion days.”

    1. It really depends on what area of the country you’re in; if you’re talking about rural areas, then this is often true, but in major cities the doctors typically live relatively close to the clinics. (And for this are often subject to being stalked and harassed by protesters at their own homes.)

    2. This is only the case because of the low number of abortion providers and the hostility that they receive from anti-choicers. It’s pretty difficult to have a local provider in every community when many doctors would rather choose a medical specialty which does not involve the aforementioned hassle. Most doctors are revered for their intelligence and skills in the greater community, if abortion providers reveal what they do (which for many is only a fraction of what they do), they are often shunned.
    But I don’t really know why I’m bothering to explain this when you clearly know it already. It’s very disingenuous of you to spend your life making abortion and abortion providers more stigmatized, and then turning around and acting as though it’s wrong that there aren’t more providers readily available.

  31. “Asian cultures are known to eat human fetuses.”
    Whoever said this is a disgusting Racist dirtbag. As if this is a commonality to the majority of the worlds’ inhabitants.
    GET BENT.

  32. The key thing to note is that the revamped CPCs will not offer a full course of prenatal care and will not provide pregnant women with continuity of care between prenatal care and delivery. They also would be unlikely to refer to other clinics that provide full service care, even if abortion is not part of the “full service care”. This is a real problem, because low-income women often have great difficulty in getting prenatal care from community doctors. (Public clinics or medical school clinics are often the only choices for women without private insurance, and a great many private practice Ob-Gyns do not accept Medicaid.)

    From what I can infer, the CPCs would offer limited technical component of ultrasound, some prenatal vitamins, and some advice not to drink during pregnancy. This is compatible with use of non-professional staff. I will credit the CPC if they do provide vitamins and accurate diet advice, including the warning about excess alcohol use during pregnancy. However, I worry that they will not disabuse the perhaps naive women clients of the notion that prenatal care involves only the services they provide. It is also possible that some CPCs would provide certain (white) patients with referral to prenatal care based on the woman’s willingness to live in a “home for unwed mothers” and to sign away the baby for adoption. (See Kathryn Joyce’s article in the Nation re connection between some CPCs and some adoption services.)

    I think that the CPCs are betting that the women entering the clinic can be cowed into not suing should they receive bad medical advice. The presence of a doctor’s supervision lays the clinic open to lawsuit to a much greater extent than if supervision and service is purely lay. Clinician providers of Pap tests are responsible for follow-up notification of patients – not the cytotechnicians and pathologists, whose role is to interpret the test and convey results to the clinician. Somehow, I have the feeling that the strategists haven’t thought through the legal implications of providing actual medical services. I doubt that they have thought through the likely personnel issues – volunteers are not going to have professional codes of ethics and other norms (such as importance of patient follow-up for Pap results), are likely to speak to the woman’s significant other and family members without the explicit permission of the woman.

  33. Echo… got it on the “English sarcasm.” I appreciate your sometimes successful attempts to hold back.

    As for you statement:

    …PP in Waco, Texas definitely does mammogram screenings, thanks to “a grant from the local Central Texas Affiliate of the Susan G. Komen Foundation.”…

    … you were as taken in by PP’s misleading advertising as was evil fizz by PP SE IA’s misleading advertising. Read PP Waco’s wording again. Very clever but misleading. PP doesn’t perform mammograms. Why don’t you believe PP Federation of America’s statement in the Washington Post?

    But go ahead, call PP Waco tomorrow and find out for yourself. Here’s the #: (254) 759-5750. Here’s what I was told when I called today: “We will give you a referral to have that [mammogram] done off site, somewhere else.”

    Again, going back to the originally quoted paragraph in this post, if pro-life women’s health centers are inadequate for not performing mammograms, is PP also inadequate for not performing them?

    As for Christ Hospital, I never testified that CH was abandoning “viable” babies, although I believe it was. CH aborted from 19-28 weeks, into the 3rd trimester. Babies are potentially viable at about 23 weeks and/or 1 pound. CH aborted sick babies, but it also aborted healthy babies. Its practice was never to assess babies who survived their abortions, so it never knew if those babies were viable.

    On the other hand, wanted preemies who were born sometimes at the same age as aborted preemies, were assessed and given treatment if appropriate.

    That’s what BAIPA was and is all about – ensuring that any baby born alive, no matter if wanted or not, is given the same medical treatment. It most certainly was not “political theatre” to pass such a law both on the federal level and in various states, including Illinois.

    I expect you’ve heard of Gosnell. There was an example of an abortionist who killed abortion survivors. He now faces the death penalty.

    It happens, more often than any of us imagine.

  34. Um, guys, I hate to wade into the debate here, but I suspect what is actually consumed in a few countries is the placenta. Placentas aren’t fetuses. Heck, most animals eat their placentas, and I know of one ethnic group in Asia, the Hmong, that bury the placenta under a tree. (Well, they used to, but most don’t live in an area where that’s possible anymore.)
    So can we cut this out now?

  35. Ah, I see where the confusion is. To clarify – until 2008, PP of Waco provided mammogram access through referrals. That was the extent of Waco’s involvement — patients obviously didn’t pay Waco for mammograms. The whole ballgame changed in 2009, when the Susan G. Komen Foundation underwrote a grant to PP of Waco to start offering mammograms directly, by contracting out to two radiology centers.

    Now PP of Waco handles all bureaucratic and contract administration for its mammogram screenings, alongside traditional referrals. Mammograms are still performed off-site, as clinics are not permitted to host mammogram machines, but the patient remains within the PP system. This is similar to the mammogram screenings that PP of Tuscon used to do – they weren’t permitted to host mammogram machines in their health centres, so they used a mobile van. (And for qualifying patients, Waco handles all costs and billing for patients, through the aforementioned grant.)

    According to the Texas DSHS of Central Texas, there are 10 counties where PP is the sole provider of mammogram referrals (specifically the Mary Ruth Duncan Health Center). So for women in those counties, losing access to PP’s referrals would be a fairly crappy turn of events – and CPCs would be a wholly inadequate substitute, since they obviously can’t do referrals without a proper license. Given the reputation of CPCs for misinformation and privacy violations, they have a long way to go before they have the credibility to become clinics someday.

    Again, testimony aside, neither of us has anything with which to substantiate the 1999 claims against Christ Hospital. If folks there weren’t checking to see if aborted fetuses were viable, the IDPH’s investigation didn’t turn up anything – I can only take their conclusions (and Christ Hospital’s statements on comfort care for dying fetuses) at face value, whilst acknowledging that you may have seen something incredible, on the level of Kermit Gosnell.

    Not coincidentally, Gosnell is a figure I cite when speaking on reproductive access in the States – he’s a textbook example of the sort of illegal abortions that crop up when abortion restrictions push poor women into the proverbial back alleys. (Various women’s health advocates like Brenda Green of CHOICE clamoured for an investigation into Gosnell, but the Health Department ignored her – even as her claims were echoed by personnel from the Children’s Hospital and even Delaware County.) Then again, the WHO classifies abortion as one of the safest surgical procedures in the world (more so than tonsillectomies… yep, I know from experience!), so it would take a lot Gosnells to make abortion as dangerous as tonsils. In the end, that’s why I do what I do – to keep my family safe, because I’ve been there before. You and I may want to help women, but we have diametrically opposing ideas on how to do it. That we’re discussing this with some degree of civility (sarcasm excepted) is notable.

    (Politicalguineapig, if any lurkers happen upon this comment thread, I sure hope they’re critical enough to take claims of Asian fetus-eating with a whole cube of salt. I would have posted links debunking this claim – but, like you, I feel stupid for even addressing something so asinine.) :-p

  36. Echozen: I think most Feministers are taking the whole saltshaker. I just had to post that because I think Ms. Stanek and her followers are on low-sodium diets.

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