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Man-Repelling

Jill

Maybe I will have something more intelligent to say about this later, but: I appreciate women who are able to have a sense of humor about fashion, and who recognize that for a lot of us, clothing is wearable art and not just a way of making ourselves look attractive (or covering our butts). Maybe I’m just biased because I really like a good jumpsuit (although I’m not such a fan of how hard they are to get off when you have to pee).

35 thoughts on Man-Repelling

  2. Eh. I get where it’s going, but I’m still annoyed by how much it centres the male gaze, even while apparently rejecting it. Reading through the article and the associated blog, it’s seems to me to still be all about what men see (and don’t see). I mean, the name is Man Repeller, already! The idea seems like the flipside of, “Did you see what she was wearing? She was asking for it!” Now clothes mean that we are rejecting sex and sexual attention? (Or rape, as the case may be.)

    I wish the male gaze were the footnote it deserved to be.

  3. Personal bias though: I find “fashion” and “style” alienating, because I’ve only experienced it as “that thing you don’t have and aren’t any good at and you should feel ashamed of yourself”.

    I just wanted to be clear, because maybe my first comment came off a little more harsh than necessary. I don’t hate the blog, I just got a weird vibe off the whole thing, which is probably partly what I described in my first comment, and partly that “fashion” just makes me feel bad no matter what.

  4. Fashions that, though promoted by designers and adored by women, most likely confuse — or worse, repulse — the average straight man.

    Oh, noez! I might be repulsing average men! Whatever shall I do?

    I remember asking my husband if he liked an outfit before I bought it. His reply was priceless: “Who cares what I think? I’m not the one wearing it.”

    So, so right, my dearest love.

  5. I can partially agree with the author’s perspective that clothing shouldn’t be worn primarily for male gaze… but why assume that it was created for that reason in the first place? I have such a big problem with the presentation that specific pieces will repel men, who according to Medine “…like things tight and simple.” She also completely dismisses the opinions of non-straight men (and women, for that matter!), and to me appears to be walking a fine line between feminism and reinforcement of stereotypes.

  6. There is one upside to calling it wearable art: fully embracing the fact that there is no accounting for taste. I can appreciate some good harem pants (please tell me these have another name), but jumpsuits are where the line must be drawn.

  7. I thought it would involve dressing like Bella Donna-era Stevie Nicks, complete with unsolicited, inopportune twirling.

  9. Sort of off-putting that it has to be done by someone conventionally beautiful, skinny, and wearing super expensivo designer clothes to be considered meaningful by the NYT. Like it has to be winkety wink, but she’s still got social currency and is still getting appearance privilege (and can still get a man! PHEW), whereas someone who is say, fat or old and/or dressing really out there and off-norm is not going to get this kind of nod of approval.

  11. @Bushfire, that you’ve never looked at thestylerookie.com maybe? But this lady is indeed in Tavi Gevinson company, a hallowed realm.

  13. Jadey: I just wanted to be clear, because maybe my first comment came off a little more harsh than necessary. I don’t hate the blog, I just got a weird vibe off the whole thing,

    I don’t think that was harsh and I agree with your take on it, if your take was:

    Jadey: Eh. I get where it’s going, but I’m still annoyed by how much it centres the male gaze, even while apparently rejecting it. Reading through the article and the associated blog, it’s seems to me to still be all about what men see (and don’t see).

    Because the way it’s pitched sounds just like it’s about what men don’t or won’t see.

    I don’t see what’s so man-repelling about any of it. It just looks comfortable and sensible. And what if it is man-repelling? Nuns’ habits are man-repelling, and for good reason.

    Personal Failure: Fashions that, though promoted by designers and adored by women, most likely confuse — or worse, repulse — the average straight man. Oh, noez! I might be repulsing average men! Whatever shall I do?I remember asking my husband if he liked an outfit before I bought it. His reply was priceless: “Who cares what I think? I’m not the one wearing it.”So, so right, my dearest love.  (Quote this comment?)

    Yes indeed. Besides, [straight] men joke that they care a lot more about how a woman undresses than about how she dresses.

  14. I’m not repelled by fashion. If anything, I enjoy trying to figure out how certain shapes and patterns fit together, but I’m bit too inhibited, I suppose, to be quite so bold myself. And as someone who has always had an interest in history, it’s interesting to analyze the trends of prior times and what might have inspired them. If I had the money, I might even let someone with any sense at all dress me, but for right now, I’d just as soon observe from a distance.

  15. I remember asking my husband if he liked an outfit before I bought it. His reply was priceless: “Who cares what I think? I’m not the one wearing it.”

    You married the right guy!

  16. Call me weird, but there wasn’t a single outfit on the front page of that blog that didn’t leave me thinking “Ugh, gross!”.

    Besides, what about us larger-sized women? What if you can’t afford “fashion”? Can’t walk in heels/wedges/whatever?

    1. Besides, what about us larger-sized women? What if you can’t afford “fashion”? Can’t walk in heels/wedges/whatever?

      Well, I’m a big proponent of the idea that fashion can be for everyone (if you want it to be — and if you want to opt out, go for it!). The high-fashion industry is thoroughly fucked up in a lot of ways, but fashion as an idea — dressing for aesthetic appeal — in no way has to be centered on skinny able-bodied rich people. Why feed into that idea?

  18. Jadey: Eh. I get where it’s going, but I’m still annoyed by how much it centres the male gaze, even while apparently rejecting it.

    Yes.

    Also, I’m still not convinced “fashion” or at least high fashion is really about the male gaze. To me the main dynamic with fashion is class/wealth, not gender.

    Personally, if they could figure out how to make yoga pants look like slacks, I wouldn’t care what men thought of how I looked in them.

  19. Kristen J.: Also, I’m still not convinced “fashion” or at least high fashion is really about the male gaze.

    It’s not. Men mock it. The skinny model look is definitely not aimed at male attention either, and no, this does not exclude gay men involved in fashion. Seeing someone as an animate clothes rack does not qualify as “male gaze”.

    Fashionable and flattering clothing for larger-sized women – the contrast between Germany and the US is amazing. In German department stores I don’t recall seeing separate sections for diffenrnet sizes of women, with different levels of fashionability. The same stuff is available for everyone. Come to think of it, there aren’t very many little Germans of any gender.

  20. Sonja: Besides, what about us larger-sized women? What if you can’t afford “fashion”? Can’t walk in heels/wedges/whatever?

    As a fat woman, I have found that reclaiming fashion has helped my self-esteem a huge amount. I prefer dressing in bright colors and “eccentric” fashions that make me stand out. Further, I see it as a political action. Culture says that I should make my body smaller, so I wear poofy skirts. Culture says I should hide my body, so I wear tank tops and fitted clothing and bright colors on my huge hips.

    I’ve also found that being fat has helped distance fashion from male gaze, for me. If the male gaze already rejects me, then why should I care about it?

    Re: money, I’m not poor, but I do try to keep a low budget for clothing. I find that it helps to get multi-functional clothing. Scarves work as neck scarves and head scarves (I cover my head all the time). Shoes are comfy and cute so that I can wear them everywhere. I get sleeveless dresses so that I can wear them in the summer and layered in the winter. I try to save money so that I can buy clothing at once during big sale periods, like after Christmas or Thanksgiving. But it’s really challenging to find inexpensive, cute, big clothes.

    And heels are the suck. I don’t wear them because I walk a lot in a hilly city. My canvas shoes from Pay-Less are my best friends. Also, they have aliens on them.

  21. Wealthy, urban twentysomething women are sporting increasingly ridiculous outfits. IS IT RUINING THEIR CHANCES FOR MARRIAGE?!

    [sorry]

  22. I like the idea, but I don’t think she’s quite hit the mark. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding her, but if the goal is to discourage men from looking at her she isn’t succeeding. Either she has a very simplistic idea of what all men are attracted to. Personally I’m more into the androgynous “I make myself look good by wearing complex or artistically interesting clothing” look, and I think a lot of other men are too. I’m not even sure that devoting more than a cursory attention to your clothing is even compatible with warding off the man gaze. Maybe she just doesn’t want boorish men who think the only point of clothes is to suggest what’s under them looking at her, but if that’s the case I wish she’d make the distinction more clear.

  23. “Now clothes mean that we are rejecting sex and sexual attention? (Or rape, as the case may be.)”

    Color me heavily skeptical. If you have a conventionally attractive face and/or conventionally attractive body, I am incredibly dubious a few mismatched colors and some badly hemmed skirts are gonna make a large dent in the attention you get from men.

  24. Sid: Color me heavily skeptical. If you have a conventionally attractive face and/or conventionally attractive body, I am incredibly dubious a few mismatched colors and some badly hemmed skirts are gonna make a large dent in the attention you get from men.

    I’m have neither of those, actually.

    My point isn’t that this is a legitimate perspective (the opposite, actually) – I was just pointing out the parallel with that classic trope: that certain clothes make you rape-able. What I’m taking from the idea of “men-repellent” clothing is that this is clothing that is somehow capable of fending off men’s advances, which is veering too far into rape myth territory for my comfort.

    And, yeah, a conventionally pretty woman wearing schlubby clothes isn’t going to be repelling a lot of dudes (some, sure – no one is universally attractive anyway). And a schlubby kid like me in a tight dress isn’t going to attract a crowd of interested partners (although it wouldn’t stop me from being raped either).

    My issue isn’t with the fashion itself, though. “Man Repeller” was probably a flippant joke of a blog title – it just doesn’t sit well with me.

  25. Jadey:
    I’m have neither of those, actually.My point isn’t that this is a legitimate perspective (the opposite, actually) – I was just pointing out the parallel with that classic trope: that certain clothes make you rape-able. What I’m taking from the idea of “men-repellent” clothing is that this is clothing that is somehow capable of fending off men’s advances, which is veering too far into rape myth territory for my comfort.And, yeah, a conventionally pretty woman wearing schlubby clothes isn’t going to be repelling a lot of dudes (some, sure – no one is universally attractive anyway). And a schlubby kid like me in a tight dress isn’t going to attract a crowd of interested partners (although it wouldn’t stop me from being raped either).My issue isn’t with the fashion itself, though. “Man Repeller” was probably a flippant joke of a blog title – it just doesn’t sit well with me.  

    I agree, my comment wasn’t directed at you specifically, more towards the notion of “man-repellent” clothing even being feasible.

  27. @Will,
    She’s being incredibly tongue in cheek with the man repellent stuff. It becomes more obvious when you read some of her posts.

    @Jadey,
    Thanks for your perspective on this. I don’t agree with all of it (different opinions on fashion, yadda yadda) but it’s something I wouldn’t have thought of and I appreciate the different angle. 🙂

  28. Kristen J., having just read a fabulously well-researched book- “Adorned in Dreams”- on the history of fashion, I’d say that, no, fashion is very much about gender if also about class and wealth. And to Jadey’s point about being uncomfortable with fashion (I’m not addressing her points about “rapeability” because I agree, and there’s not much more to say,) I think what comes across in the book is that there’s very much a duality in the role of fashion for women, in that it is historically an outlet for women’s artistry when they weren’t allowed much. To that end, I have a tremendous respect for it, and I’m very much a person who enjoys self-expression through clothes myself. On the other hand, the compulsory aspect can very much be problematic. (The author of “Adorned in Dreams,” Elizabeth Wilson, probably wouldn’t entirely agree with this. And I certainly didn’t agree with every conclusion she makes, but the scope of her research is enormous and allows for one’s own conclusion making. I very, very much recommend it to anyone interested in fashion and it’s societal role.) As a 37 year old woman who remembers life before “Sex in the City”- gasp!-, I would also say that the show singlehandedly had an *enormous* role in heightening fashion’s compulsory aspect, at least for USian women and girls.

    So I don’t necessarily think you’re wrong, per se, but I do feel like it’s important to acknowledge that there’s a complexity and tension there, and that fashion’s historical, and continued, role for women is also an incredibly valuable thing. And what I think our lady of the Man-Repelling is valuably hinting at is that fashion has been and can continue to be a source of subversion of patriarchal norms. The early feminists used it very pointedly. Seriously, read the book if you’re at all interested, because a historical examination of fashion sheds a lot of light on its possibilities as well as its problems for women. It’s not a question that can be tidily resolved.

  29. Two things here. Conventional fashion is absolutely about male gaze. Much of fashion is about women looking fuckable. And not fuckable to women. I don’t think lesbians are even considered.

    Also, I don’t buy the trope that thin is in because thin women look more like men and gay men run fashion, ERGO! Gay men cause the horrible thin ideal! It’s like we can bash gay people and get away with promoting thinness because it’s not like we caused it in the first place (but no fat chicks, amirite?).

    But even if is true that models are essentially desexualized coatracks, it’s STILL male gaze, because subordinate women are serving as canvasses for male artistry. Even if it’s not about sex, and I’m not convinced at all that that’s true, how the man sees the woman is of utmost importance. Gay men have male privilege too, even if they lack straight privilege.

    And I’ve never lived in Germany, but I’ve looked at clothing on Ulla Popken’s website. They’re an explicitly plus size German store. I’m guessing that the need for a plus size store comes from lack of availability of big sizes in straight stores. But again, I don’t know. Many US stores don’t have separate sections for plus sizes. They just flat out don’t carry them.

    Jim: Jim

  30. Gah, I screwed up the tag. I was replying to this comment:

    “It’s not. Men mock it. The skinny model look is definitely not aimed at male attention either, and no, this does not exclude gay men involved in fashion. Seeing someone as an animate clothes rack does not qualify as “male gaze”.

    Fashionable and flattering clothing for larger-sized women – the contrast between Germany and the US is amazing. In German department stores I don’t recall seeing separate sections for diffenrnet sizes of women, with different levels of fashionability. The same stuff is available for everyone. Come to think of it, there aren’t very many little Germans of any gender.”

  31. Shoshie: And I’ve never lived in Germany, but I’ve looked at clothing on Ulla Popken’s website. They’re an explicitly plus size German store.

    That makes your information a lot more current than mine, whether you have lived there or not. Dang; I guess more choice for a subset of consumers is good, but I also don’t like the ghettoization. But i wonder if it still isn’t a lot easier to get the whole range of styles in all sizes there.

  32. Shoshie, it strikes me as a bit extreme to make a sweeping statement such as “much of fashion is about women looking fuckable” without providing any evidence to support that assertion. Of course, it hedges your bets to use the ambiguous qualifier “much,” and for that matter, I don’t know what qualifies as “conventional” fashion. (That’s more than a bit oxymoronic given that fashion is fundamentally about shifting expectations and norms.) There’s a lot more to fashion than high heels. I think it’s incredibly reductive to assert that fashion is “about the male gaze.” No one’s arguing that that element exists. But fashion gets asked to do a lot of things: assert power, maintain class, subvert class, suggest individuality where none exists, assert group identity, and on and on. Its role is pretty damn complex, and I think it’s ill-considered and ill-informed to suggest that it could ever be “absolutely about” one thing.

  33. “You can still tell when a girl is pretty. The men who really get repelled by what you’re wearing are a little shallow, and you probably don’t want to date them anyway.”

    What about when a girl isn’t pretty? I feel like a conventionally attractive woman wearing harem pants may get left alone, but a less conventionally attractive woman might get harassed. Perhaps less sexually, but harassed all the same.

  34. Samantha b.- I don’t think that fashion is ALL about male gaze, but I think it’s a very large part of the industry. And I think it’s very difficult to get around that. Many of those things you mentioned, like class and power, are intricately tied up in objectification of women, who gets objectified, how people get objectified, how women get rewarded for voluntarily being objectified, and punished for opting out. I’m very much interested in reclaiming fashion, per one of my previous comments above. But I think it’s important to acknowledge the role that fashion has in oppressing women.

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