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On Aasiyah Hassan

Earlier this month, Aasiyah Hassan was murdered by her husband in Buffalo, New York. The media response has been to toss around phrases like “honor killing” and “Sharia law,” despite the fact that we haven’t heard a thing from the authorities or the murderer that would indicate Hassan was killed to preserve her family’s honor, or that Sharia played into it at all. The thought process seems to be, “They’re Muslim and so this must have been a Sharia-based honor killing.” This bullshit post (complete with an illustrative table!) is a pretty good example. It comes down to this: “Honor killings” are worse than “regular” domestic violence murders. How do you spot an honor killing? Well, it’s done by a Muslim. Why is an honor killing worse? Because it’s done by a Muslim. It’ll make you dizzy if you think too hard about it. And it conveniently makes run-of-the-mill woman-killing not so bad if perpetrated by a nice non-Muslim guy.

Violence against women is of course shaped by culture. The mechanisms of control over women are going to vary across social class, race, religion and geographic location. The most effective way to hurt, shame and exert power over a woman is going to depend quite a bit on the norms in her community — and her ability to escape violence is also going to depend on her own access to power and her community’s views and assumptions. As the women at Muslimah Media Watch point out, communities can be complicit in domestic violence. It’s the same deal when religious Christian leaders tell their congregants not to get divorced even when there’s abuse (hello, Rick Warren). Religion doesn’t cause abuse — abusers cause abuse — but religious communities can enable and even promote abuse. So can non-religious and even liberal communities. At their best, those same communities can also provide resources for abuse survivors and can condemn abusers. That doesn’t seem to be what happened here.

What’s bizarre about this story is the jump to OMG HONOR KILLING when, really, the only evidence we have of an “honor killing” is the Pakistani/Muslim angle. As Fatemeh says, the facts of this case are sadly standard in murders that take place after a long history of violence: Man has a history of abuse, man abuses this woman for a prolonged period, woman tries to leave, man kills woman. Aasiyah Hassan filed for divorce and requested a protective order and her husband killed her — just like a lot of abusive men kill their partners when their partners try to leave. Had this couple been white and Christian, “honor killing,” “Sharia” and “terrorism” wouldn’t have come up. So I find myself confused when feminists write things like, “For many commenters on the web, it is apparently impossible to condemn this nightmare without hastening to add that American culture has plenty of its own home-grown brand of misogyny, and it’s therefore ‘intolerant’ to notice the particular lethalness of the honor-shame paradigm in some non-Western cultures.” Of course it’s true that culture impacts the way crimes are carried out. What confuses me here is the jump to “honor killing” without any sort of evidence to support that conclusion — other than the ethnicity and religion of the victim and murderer.

On top of the unsubstantiated claims of honor killing and sharia law comes the strange shadow-boxing against “multiculturalism.” For example:

To the feminists of the right, this matter is cut and dried. This past week, I was the keynote speaker to a group of politically active women and men called Republican Women Contemporary Federation of Boca Raton. In a question-and-answer session after my speech, the women and men in the room launched into a discussion about Aasiya’s murder. “We have laws here,” one woman exclaimed. “It’s called the US Constitution.” They were downright angry that this type of cultural hit job could take place on our shores. Live here and obey our laws or get the heck out was the general sentiment.

Artemis March, a feminist intellectual and a co-founder of The New Agenda, wants to find the line between respecting cultural and religious diversity and obeying one law. She posits: “We need to draw a line between respect for other cultures and not accepting practices which harm women. We have one set of laws that govern murder. We cannot have a dual legal system. Our laws and the universal standards of human dignity to which we aspire trump cultural diversity when it comes to harming others.”

…which would all be fine and dandy if anyone had suggested anywhere that that Muslims shouldn’t have to obey the law. As far as I can tell, Aasiyah Hassan utilized the American legal system (which ultimately failed her) in filing for divorce and a protective order. Her husband broke American laws when he killed her, and is now being criminally prosecuted in American courts. No one that I’ve read has objected to his prosecution. No one that I’ve read has written that we should have a “dual legal system” or that American Muslims shouldn’t be subject to the Constitution.

As Amy Siskin points out, the real issue is how women and men face intimate partner violence every day, here and everywhere in the world, and how our legal system and our communities too often fail.

Our country needs to start a national dialogue on violence against women. One in four women will be the victim of violence at the hand of an intimate partner in her lifetime. One in three female teenagers in a dating relationship has feared for her safety. Domestic violence costs our country $67 billion a year, including property loss, ambulance services, police response, pain and suffering, and the criminal-justice process. As Aasiya’s case shows, the laws in place simply do not work. It is time that feminists of all stripes come together and work to raise public awareness about violence against women. We need to carefully dissect the causes and figure out solutions. And in due course, some savvy politician needs to make this issue her own and help to champion our way forward together.


67 thoughts on On Aasiyah Hassan

  1. Thanks for this post Jill.

    One of the distinctions it seems Artemis March is making in the quote above is that they have culture and we have law. And implicit in the the analyses you are writing against is the old idea that some groups of people have too much culture – thus “their” actions are always dictated, understood and framed in terms of that culture. And of course, “we” don’t act on culture but other higher or more individual (not collective) prompts.

    While I am horrified at the murder of Aasiyah Hasan, I am just struck at how long the language of culture and too much of it that has been used to set immigrants against “natives” has had a life. And as someone from a group often seen as having too much culture, I do feel that the unquestioned ideas of a certain group having a certain culture – rather than questioning how people who hold power in that group use and claim cultural practices – do nothing to help actual violence and oppression within the group.

  2. What’s bizarre about this story is the jump to OMG HONOR KILLING when, really, the only evidence we have of an “honor killing” is the Pakistani/Muslim angle.

    True, other than the part where he cut off her head.

    That’s slightly unusual. Maybe it’s not evidence of an “honor killing” per se, but it’s also not the usual form of domestic violence in these parts.

    One of these things is not like the other.

  3. What confuses me here is the jump to “honor killing” without any sort of evidence to support that conclusion — other than the ethnicity and religion of the victim and murderer.

    I agree that we can’t conclude whether the crime was religiously motivated from the available evidence. That said, it is not correct to say that the only evidence to support such a conclusion is the ethnicity and religion of the victim and the (alleged) murderer. The method of the murder also supports that view; she was beheaded.

    Again, I agree that we can’t say for sure what motivated the murderer (and the husband still has not had any opportunity to present a defense in court, so it hasn’t been proved to my satisfaction that he is responsible). But the beliefs and ethnicity of the victim and the accused are not the only evidence here.

  4. And implicit in the the analyses you are writing against is the old idea that some groups of people have too much culture – thus “their” actions are always dictated, understood and framed in terms of that culture. And of course, “we” don’t act on culture but other higher or more individual (not collective) prompts.

    Where do you get that? I thought I was pretty clear that community and cultural norms across the board perpetuate and promote particular kinds of violence, and that communities of all stripes fail to prevent violence and offer support to survivors. Nowhere did I say or imply that “other” cultures are more influential on individuals than “ours.” In fact, I used the example of a mainstream American church where the culture supports violence. So I hear what you’re saying, and I think you’re right on the aggregate, I’m just a little unclear on where it happened here.

    True, other than the part where he cut off her head.

    That’s slightly unusual. Maybe it’s not evidence of an “honor killing” per se, but it’s also not the usual form of domestic violence in these parts.

    One of these things is not like the other.

    Sure. Except I women are tortured and killed by their partners in “unusual” and horrific ways every day — we just don’t hear about them. On the heels of this case, a story broke a few days ago about a woman decapitated by her partner in Virginia. I have a feeling that if this woman’s killer hadn’t been Muslim, we wouldn’t even be hearing about it.

  5. I think its interesting to look at how this story turned from a sad outcome of viomence to a passion crime, or about ,uslims not respecting the law. We have plenty of men abusing their women that are not muslim and have lived in our backyards their whole lives.
    “We have laws here,” one woman exclaimed. “It’s called the US Constitution.” They were downright angry that this type of cultural hit job could take place on our shores. Live here and obey our laws or get the heck out was the general sentiment.”
    This quote feeds the fire tozars intolerence of other religions and nationalitites.

  6. I imagine the answer lies between the two. It may not have been an “honor killing” but it’s possibly that the particular horrific way he chose to kill/torture her is culturally specific/inflected by where he grew up. I’ve never heard of decapitation as some sort of special requisite for honor killings though. Certain “fads” for violence against women (i.e. acid attacks as opposed to gunshots) seem to take root in different parts of the world, who knows why.

  7. I agree that it is unfair to Islamic culture to conclude automatically that this is an honor killing, but the circumstantial evidence here is pretty compelling- you just don’t see many cases where wives are beheaded by their husbands using a sword. When I heard that- even before hearing that this man was a muslim- my first thought was “beheading a wife = Sharia”. I will readily admit that this isn’t fair, since a psychotic husband can just as easily do the same.

  8. “The method of the murder also supports that view; she was beheaded.”

    Do we know that’s what actually killed her, though? The stories I’ve seen have said she was decapitated, not that she was killed by means of decapitation. It would hardly be the first time a murderer strangled or battered someone to death and then decapitated/dismembered the corpse in preparation for dumping the body. Just because you find the body in pieces doesn’t mean the victim was hacked to death.

    And is there really that strong a correlation between decapitation and honor-killings? Most of the reports I’ve seen here and in the MSM about it involved everything from strangulation to stoning to gunshot. I don’t remember one of them involving even post-mortem decapitation.

  9. “Religion doesn’t cause abuse — abusers cause abuse — but religious communities can enable and even promote abuse.”

    That seems to be…splitting hairs? A very fine line? I don’t think the problem is Islam per se, but rather with traditional belief systems in general, worldwide.

  10. The problem with “traditional belief systems” as you call them, is less the “religion” per se than the fact that the entire system of decision making re: dogma and religious law has been controlled by men. Islamic feminism is highly possible–the problem is that men are the ones interpreting and theorizing, by and large. Not that women don’t often agree or participate in these systems–but I think they would look quite different if there had been equal female exegesis.

  11. On the other hand, bringing up Islam in this case, seems sorta wrong. Just like the post last week about the trans woman who killed her husband-a woman murdering her husband is hardly national news, but a *trans* woman? Gosh, those transsexuals must be one sick bunch! I mean, its sorta irrelevant, and it obscures the fact that murder, domestic violence, etc. are hardly limited to any particular religion/civilization.

  12. “And is there really that strong a correlation between decapitation and honor-killings?”

    Beheading is the Qur’anic-prescribed method/punishment for certain offenses, including apostasy and blasphemy. There is a strong relationship between honor-killings and apostasy – meaning that the killer frames the dishonor as a rejection of Islam (and perhaps the authority granted by the religion to the killer) and invoking the divinely-sanctioned right to behead the offender.

    Though we don’t have all the facts, what we ought to look out for is Mrs. Hassan’s waning practice of her husband’s brand of Islam during and after their separation such that her apostasy (from her husband’s perspective) could be correlated with her emancipation from him or vice versa. He may have conflated her separation with rejection of his authority as a husband under Islam, and therefore of Islam itself, in order to arrive at his conclusion that he had a moral right to behead her.

  13. On the other hand, bringing up Islam in this case, seems sorta wrong. Just like the post last week about the trans woman who killed her husband-a woman murdering her husband is hardly national news, but a *trans* woman? Gosh, those transsexuals must be one sick bunch! I mean, its sorta irrelevant, and it obscures the fact that murder, domestic violence, etc. are hardly limited to any particular religion/civilization.

    Agreed. I think part of the media frenzy revolves around the fact that the killer’s occupation revolved around improving the perceptions of American Muslims. There’s sort of a man-bites-dog angle to a story where someone out to prove that most Muslims don’t fit the stereotype of misogynist terrorists goes out and murders his wife.

    Definitely not defending it, just pointing out that here it comes up because of his job and the irony factor.

  14. “Religion doesn’t cause abuse”- well maybe, but it’s a big factor. Any man who belongs to a masculine institution (a church, a football team, the armed forces) is more of a threat, and ought to be avoided. There are probably athiest domestic abusers, but generally, religious abusers pose more of a threat.

  15. People seem very, very excited to blame Islam for this, and to get to toss around terms like “honor killing.” I worry that using the term “honor killing” to describe any murder involving a Muslim man killing a Muslim woman renders the term meaningless, and makes “regular” domestic violence seem less serious by comparison. It also makes all of us less effective advocates when we base our understanding of abuse on limited knowledge of “other” cultures.

    @nil has a great first comment in this thread, which I think I responded to defensively at first, but which I’d suggest we all go back and re-read.

  16. Politicalguineapig, I agree that a lot of religious belief systems to enable and promote abuse. Religions that preach male dominance and entitlement and female submissiveness of course create huge problems — they promote abuse and they make it extremely difficult for victims to get out. So I’m certainly not saying that religion has no role in abuse. Religion can have a huge role in promoting and maintaining abusive situations.

    But I disagree with your analysis that “any man who belongs to a masculine institution is more of a threat, and ought to be avoided,” because while there are “probably” atheist abusers (are you kidding?), religious abusers pose “more of a threat.” How religious abusers pose more of a threat than any other abuser is beyond me — I’m pretty sure when you’re being abused, the abuse isn’t less threatening coming from someone who doesn’t believe in God. And the stereotype of the abuser as a religious, conservative male is really harmful to people who find themselves in abusive situations where the abuser doesn’t fit that type. A handful of brave women have written about the abuse they’ve suffered in progressive communities, sometimes at the hands of female partners. That kind of abuse often goes unreported and unnoticed precisely because of the mentality that this stuff doesn’t happen among us enlightened lefty activist types. It’s really damaging and dangerous (and flat-out untruthful) to keep promoting the stereotype that domestic violence is primarily a problem with Christian fundies, “trashy” (read: poor) people, ultra-masculine dudes and Muslim immigrants. That erases the reality that a lot of us have lived.

  17. Jill, I think the conclusion arises from the recent historical antecedent of similar occurrences in Muslim communities in Europe, and the concern that this part of Muslim/Arab/Pakistani/etc.* culture may be asserting itself in the United States against our legal and cultural prohibitions to the contrary.

    * I understand that there is no single “Muslim Culture” of which to speak, and that there are non-Muslim Arabs etc.

  18. Featherstone, when white Christian or aetheist dudes kill their wives, is that our own culture asserting itself against our own legal and cultural prohibitions to the contrary?

    I’m not trying to be an ass, but I do think it’s worth pointing out that intimate partner violence is a part of almost every culture on earth, including ours. How it plays out is shaped by cultural and community norms, but as @nils points out, there seem to be undertones of “It’s their culture” when brown people commit violence that’s largely absent when it’s white Western people.

  19. Jill,

    Perhaps I could have been more careful with my wording – I wasn’t saying that you were making the argument for some groups having too much culture. But rather that the positions you described were. I liked your post and the way you brought needed nuance to that old logic.

    So was saying – Yah! go Jill! and just attempting to identify a school of thought with a long history. Apologies for the confusion it caused. I am going to attribute my less than clear wording to having to run off to work but still wanting to comment the moment I read the post.

  20. @nil, it was my bad. I read your comment too soon after waking up and was grouchy 🙂 Apologies for the immediate defensiveness, it was a really excellent point.

  21. “Featherstone, when white Christian or aetheist dudes kill their wives, is that our own culture asserting itself against our own legal and cultural prohibitions to the contrary?”

    No. Our culture has resolved the issue and codified the same in law. There is no cultural support for, say, a Lutheran to kill his wife because she went off and did something he doesn’t like. That’s why we prosecute him, and if left to people like me we’d hang him in the town square after due process. It is now considered gauche even in blue-collar white guy land to treat your lady disrespectfully in public, and word of girlfriend or wife abuse is generally regarded as unacceptable and both moral and legal grounds for ending a marriage.

    Additionally, there was, I recall from Law School, a scholarly effort in the 90’s to assert so-called “cultural defenses” to criminal prosecution in the United States. I’d presume these were not your William F. Buckley types promoting this thing, but there is some (perhaps) limited support in legal circles for asserting the primacy of foreign culture over American law. This tracks an overall trend that many people perceive which favors foreign culture and practice over the boring bourgeois middle-American culture, and hence the anxiety. Admittedly, this killing seems to be “one in a row” in the United States, but it does at the same time seem to conform with other more numerous incidents in Europe.

  22. Featherstone, are you under the impression that murder is legal in majority-Muslim countries?

    There is no cultural support for, say, a Lutheran to kill his wife because she went off and did something he doesn’t like. That’s why we prosecute him, and if left to people like me we’d hang him in the town square after due process.

    Well thank Jesus us Americans are so darned enlightened, eh?

  23. Jill- I said religious people were more likely to escalate the abuse and they are more likely to kill. Also, while progressives can be abusive, it’s less likely, and the victims are more likely to be able to find support and elude pursuit. The same is not true of women in conservative communities.

  24. @Featherstone: “It is now considered gauche even in blue-collar white guy land to treat your lady disrespectfully in public, and word of girlfriend or wife abuse is generally regarded as unacceptable and both moral and legal grounds for ending a marriage.”

    Have you seen the reactions to Chris Brown and Rihanna? There are plenty of people out there either asking what the big deal is or saying that she must have provoked him.

    I remember an incident from when I was in high school and volunteering at a program for poor women and children. I was in charge of watching some of the little kids while their mothers were taking a class. One day, a four-year-old boy, who was usually a very sweet kid, hit a one-year-old girl. (I can’t remember why — she’d taken a toy from him, or something.) After the mothers’ class was over, I told his mother what had happened, and she spanked him. Several of the other mothers said things like, “Why are you spanking him just for hitting? Don’t you want him to grow up to be a man?”

    And in my own middle school (suburban, upper-middle class, almost entirely white), I remember a few times in eighth grade seeing boys physically intimidate their girlfriends. At least once this was in front of a teacher, who didn’t say anything to either of them.

  25. uh, people, in case you missed it, DV can get pretty unusual no matter where it is or what religion the perp is. remember that guy who cut off all his girlfriend’s limbs and put them in pots and pans? it was just some white people in the US.

    like seriously, barbarism is everywhere, and to automatically assume that such a disgusting act would ~*have*~ to be ‘tribal’ or performed in the name of Islam (which, i mean, the attitude is practically the same — weird brown people with their barbarism etc) is just rather self-righteous at best.

  26. As one example of addressing abuse in progressive communities — several years ago, a group put up signs in the women’s restrooms of several synagogues here in DC that said something like, “Most Jewish men don’t hit their wives. But some do.” and gave a phone number and website for a hotline that deals specifically with domestic violence within the Jewish community. I didn’t see them in every synagogue, and the ones where I did see them were the ones that tend to skew younger. I’m not sure if they approached some of the other ones and they said no, or if someone who works at the hotline also worked at or knew someone who worked at the synagogues that did put up the signs, or what.

  27. Jill: Great post. Your post deconstructing the feminist response to this case was worth waiting for. 😉 And thanks for the all the link love.

  28. “Featherstone, are you under the impression that murder is legal in majority-Muslim countries?”

    Not in majority-Muslim countries, but in some majority-Muslim countries governed by Islam qua Political system – well then, in that case, “murder” has a much less broad definition.

    “Well thank Jesus us Americans are so darned enlightened, eh?”

    I’m rather fond of America, insofar as I am inclined to render credit when due. I mean to say head-chopping is not common, and of this I am proud.

  29. Featherstone: I’m more than happy to take a swipe at any traditional religion for pretty much any reason, but I think you might be a little blinded by your fondness of the good ‘ol US of A. The bottom line is that patriarchal cultures abuse women. The details, justifications, and forms of that abuse might vary widely, but any culture which produces Scott Peterson and OJ Simpson really isn’t elligible for “credit where credit is due.” The reason so many people have a problem with calling this an honor killing is because doing do allows us distance ourselves from the act. “we would never be so savage, so we don’t have to think about this” is what we’re saying when we look for something different to call this murder. At the end of the day a man killed his wife because she was doing something he didn’t like. Happens every day the world over and the justifications or method don’t really matter because they’re just set dressing; the central act is still what it is.

  30. I really don’t understand why people are so fixated on the beheading. Would it be better if he shot her or beat her to death? He killed his wife under the most common circumstance in which men kill their wives, at least here in the U.S., in OUR culture – when the woman is about to leave an abusive relationship. Sadly, there is actually nothing unusual about this story in the slightest.

  31. It strikes me that a number of the arguments advanced in favor of this post are similar to the ones conservatives use to argue against hate crimes legislation.

    To wit, the only thing that deserves consideration is the criminal act. Motivation doesn’t matter, nor does the perpetrator’s brutality toward the victim or desecration of the victim’s remains. We punish acts rather than cultural attitudes or hateful thoughts.

    I don’t bring this up because I think that view is necessarily wrong (I tend to think it wrong, but I’m unsure). I just didn’t expect to find such a view so well represented here.

  32. Southpaw, who said that motivations or brutality don’t matter? I certainly think that motivations and brutality matter — and FYI, our legal system typically takes those things into consideration even in crimes that are not designated “hate crimes.” I would imagine they’ll be taken into account here.

    What I’m at least objecting to here is the narrative established by the media and many commentators. They’re jumping to conclusions based on no evidence other than the ethnicity and religion of the victim and the murder, and throwing out words in ways that sever the terms from their actual meaning. And they’re quick to ascribe motivation to religious law, despite a total absense of any supproting evidence.

  33. I think this is the program that was putting up those flyers I saw. http://www.jwi.org/site/c.okLWJ3MPKtH/b.2213779/k.BFB9/Home.htm Their website looks pretty good — it’s addressing abuse from a Jewish perspective not in terms of things in Judaism that might lead people to abuse, but in terms of specific considerations and issues that Jewish women might have in getting help or leaving a violent relationship. There are some cultural things (it’s frequently a battle just to talk about abuse in the Jewish community — that’s just something “they” do, not “us”), and some religious things (even people who aren’t very religious often want all the religious stuff done for marriage and divorce, because it could cause problems for their kids later on otherwise.) I also noticed a mini-curriculum for teenage boys that looks pretty interesting — one session on the “men are tough” messages from popular media, one session on partnership and equality in relationships, and one session on emotional expression and how the Jewish concept of masculinity differs from the one in popular culture.

  34. “but any culture which produces Scott Peterson and OJ Simpson really isn’t elligible [sic] for ‘credit where credit is due.'”

    Well, you see, of all the opinions of Peterson and Simpson, I don’t recall anyone seriously positing that either had the right to kill the victim – they supported some theory of innocence.

    Insofar as humans will, from time to time, murder one another – even in a Progressive Utopia – then no culture deserves credit in your view. I understand this, however I disagree, and believe that the West is superior in the non-beheading of wives arena. I know about Henry VIII, etc., however I am speaking of the United States in 2009.

    “I really don’t understand why people are so fixated on the beheading.”

    Because it is a ritualized act of prescribed murder against a woman. It is in pari materia of an unfortunate trend in Western countries with Muslim populations. Mr. Hassan may have believed this act was morally justified and sanctioned by his religion, and as such we have something new, or something old that was put to bed in the West some time ago.

  35. Well, you see, of all the opinions of Peterson and Simpson, I don’t recall anyone seriously positing that either had the right to kill the victim – they supported some theory of innocence.

    Featherstone, again, you’re attacking strawmen. Where did anyone seriously posit that Hassan had a right to kill his wife?

    Mr. Hassan may have believed this act was morally justified and sanctioned by his religion, and as such we have something new, or something old that was put to bed in the West some time ago.

    Or he may have believed that Michael Jackson was sending him messages from Mars to kill her. WE DON’T KNOW. Which is why it’s strange to be making these kinds of logical leaps.

    And a lot of men believe that the murders of their wives or partners were justified by religion or something else. Including a lot of Western men. The idea has hardly been put to bed.

  36. “Featherstone, again, you’re attacking strawmen. Where did anyone seriously posit that Hassan had a right to kill his wife?”

    Well, we made an analogy between Western culture and Muslim cultures of sorts. William, who likes to swipe at religion, wrote in sum that the West is no better than Muslim cultures (not worthy or credit) because Simpson and Peterson are products of Western culture. My attempt was to show that there was no serious debate concerning Peterson’s and Simpson’s right to kill their (ex-) wives. In some or many Muslim nations, it is sort of an open question, with not insignificant support on the side of wife beheading for cause. I’d gather that in Jeddah, and perhaps in Dearborn, you’d have a bit more discussion of what Mrs. Hassan was up to, and whether her killing was justifiable or sanctioned.

    Jill, I like you because you tend to be reasonable and aren’t afraid of ideas – which is to say that you do not insist upon running an ideologically sanitary blog, and that is worthy of commendation. I might say that your blog – the part that you govern – is superior to the other feminist blogs. Just like I don’t have a problem seeing that the West sort of has the wife-beheading thing licked.

    “Which is why it’s strange to be making these kinds of logical leaps.”

    You’ve got to ask the questions even if they lead to an unfortunate conclusion. We know that Mr. Hassan was a serious Muslim, that he murdered his wife, that the murder was by the method prescribed in the Qur’an for many offenses, and we know that he used a sword. In light of all of this, and without prejudice to Mr. Hassan’s rights as a criminal defendant, I think we can move past the notion that this is just like OJ and see that there was some kind of ritual carried out – one not uncommon in Islamic cultures.

  37. Ruchama: I see those messages on the inside of every mikveh I’ve ever been to, usually next to the breast exam how-to. I do think there is a slowly increasing awareness that Jewish men aren’t magically exempt from spousal abuse. However until we get the halachot of divorce seriously changed, Orthodox (and some Conserv) Jewish women still face heavy misogyny on a day to day basis. I still can’t believe the rabbi’s in the C mov’t found a way around the driving on Shabbat problem before the agunah issue.

    Featherstone/Jill/etc: I think the problem with the term “honor killing” is that it DOES have a different basis from a man thinking he received secret messages from Mars to kill his wife. In the countries where honor killing is still alive and well, it is culturally sanctioned and backed up by misogynist interpretations of sharia law. The issue here is caution that this system in no way should “transfer” to the USA, as it has in parts of Germany with a heavy Turkish immigrant population. One man does not commit an “honor killing,” he commits murder–a *community* commits honor killing.

    Given the method of execution* and the issue of the wife’s practice of Islam, I do think it is worthwhile for the police to make sure he in no way had help killing his wife (from family, religious community, etc).

    *the one friend of mine who was almost the victim of an honor killing said her family dragged her out of bed and night, bagged her head, and drove her to a cemetary with a freshly dug grave to show her where they would bury her if she transgressed again. There was a family meeting to determine whether or not they would kill her–her 5 uncles voted yes and her father voted no. No beheading threat was made. (what was her “sin”? She had coffee with a boy at Starbucks.)

  38. One man does not commit an “honor killing,” he commits murder–a *community* commits honor killing.

    But it could still be an honor killing in the eyes of the murderer, if he felt it was his religious duty as part of some greater hardline Islamic community. And if that were the case, I think it should be called both a murder and an honor killing; motive matters. But as Jill points out, we have zero way of knowing beyond a very, very crude heuristic. It’s pretty much useless to speculate one way or the other; justice in the US tends to be pretty fast and we’ll probably know before long.

    One thing that I think is a non-sequitor is to call the murder a “sharia law honor killing”. We don’t have sharia law here; that’s a meaningless claim to make about a US murder. It could be an honor killing; if so it may or may not be rooted in Hassan’s interpretation of his faith; but it definitely wasn’t part of a system of sharia law.

  39. The issue here is caution that this system in no way should “transfer” to the USA, as it has in parts of Germany with a heavy Turkish immigrant population. One man does not commit an “honor killing,” he commits murder–a *community* commits honor killing.

    I think this is important. What really concerns about the way this story is being covered is we have no evidence this actually happened or is happening in relation to this case. All the assumptions are flowing from the perpetrator’s ethnicity/religion. If evidence emerges that this was a factor, then that’s one thing. But without that evidence, we’re basically turning a very common escalation of domestic violence into something THEY do, not US.

  40. Featherstone QC, you’re an idiot.

    Beheading is the Qur’anic-prescribed method/punishment for certain offenses, including apostasy and blasphemy.

    This is a lie. I’m surprised that Jill (who has taken a class on Islamic law) didnt call you out on this.

    As for Ms. Hassan’s waning practice of Islam, get this, she was more religious than he was! Jesus, even commenters on this website can be morons.

    What’s really disgusting is organizations which should know better (I’m looking at you NOW) issue horrendous statements claiming this to be a terroristic version of an honor killing. I understand the media jumping on it for the irony bit, what with his attempt at improving images of Muslims; the right wing co-opting it as another honor killing by a barbaric muslim man was fully expected. What was not was some women’s organizations making some incredibly ignorant statements in the name of preventing DV.

  41. I see those messages on the inside of every mikveh I’ve ever been to, usually next to the breast exam how-to. I do think there is a slowly increasing awareness that Jewish men aren’t magically exempt from spousal abuse. However until we get the halachot of divorce seriously changed, Orthodox (and some Conserv) Jewish women still face heavy misogyny on a day to day basis. I still can’t believe the rabbi’s in the C mov’t found a way around the driving on Shabbat problem before the agunah issue.

    Oh! Yes, putting them in a mikveh makes a lot of sense. I’m not married, so I’ve never been to one, and that totally didn’t occur to me.

    And yes, the agunah issue is huge. There are all kinds of stopgap measures, but something bigger needs to be done. (I remember, for the past few years, I got an email from my synagogue a bit before Sukkot saying not to buy from a particular website selling sukkah kits, because the owner of the website wouldn’t give his wife a get. Didn’t get one this year, so I’m guessing that he gave it to her. And things like that are a good response from the community, but they don’t solve the problem, just sometimes alleviate it on a case by case basis.)

  42. “Featherstone QC, you’re an idiot.”

    Forgive me Sid, I didn’t have the benefit of your two credit course in World Religions. Of course, all knowledge of true Islam comes from neo-pagan and/or ethical humanist University Professors.

    “This is a lie.”

    But for the dislocated heads? The proof of the pudding is in the fetishization of cutting sinew and slicing through the vertebrae of the necks of living humans while chanting of the Greatness of Allah. We’ll dicker about suras and hadiths and practice, and this Imam says x, but in the end, Sid, your task is to hide the rolling heads, and you can’t.

    http://www.hyscience.com/archives/Behead%20Those%20Who%20Insult%20Islam.jpg

    “As for Ms. Hassan’s waning practice of Islam, get this, she was more religious than he was! Jesus, even commenters on this website can be morons.”

    Gee – look, Sid conducted a test with his trusty Islamometer, and Mrs. Hassan rated 9.8, whereas Mr. Hassan rated a lowly 4.3. Mrs. Hassan belonged to the popular “divorce your husband and live on your own” sect of Orthodox Sunni practice, apparently.

  43. Well, you see, of all the opinions of Peterson and Simpson, I don’t recall anyone seriously positing that either had the right to kill the victim – they supported some theory of innocence.

    There are some problems with the comparison in the first place. For one, the Simpsons were a mixed couple. For another, Lacey Peterson was carrying her husband’s child. Details like that complicate public reactions to intimate violence. We use them to decide which women deserve to be murdered, and by which men.

    But I can think of one example of a joke about Nicole deserving it, and I don’t hang out with people who make jokes about domestic violence: take it away, Chris Rock:

    You got to think about O.J.’s situation: $25,000 a month [in alimony], another man driving around in his car, fucking his wife, in a house he’s still paying the mortgage on! Now, I’m not saying he should have killed her. But I understand.

    Then there’s, “What do you tell a woman with two black eyes?”

    And there have been public statements by American elected representatives–some pretty recent–that have dismissed domestic violence as trivial. Here’s the last example I remember:

    http://feministlawprofs.law.sc.edu/?p=2933

    Rep. Gilda Cobb-Hunter (D-Dist. 66-Orangeburg) says of the two bills, “What we have said by the actions of the Judiciary Committee is we aren’t going to create a felony if you beat your wife, partner. But now, if you’ve got some cockfighting going on, whoa! Wait a minute.”

    Rep. Altman responds to the comparison, “People who compare the two are not very smart and if you don’t understand the difference, Ms. Gormley, between trying to ban the savage practice of watching chickens trying to kill each other and protecting people rights in CDV statutes, I’ll never be able to explain it to you in a 100 years ma’am.”

    Chava:

    Featherstone/Jill/etc: I think the problem with the term “honor killing” is that it DOES have a different basis from a man thinking he received secret messages from Mars to kill his wife. In the countries where honor killing is still alive and well, it is culturally sanctioned and backed up by misogynist interpretations of sharia law. The issue here is caution that this system in no way should “transfer” to the USA, as it has in parts of Germany with a heavy Turkish immigrant population. One man does not commit an “honor killing,” he commits murder–a *community* commits honor killing.

    I think this is a distinction that means less difference in practice. I agree that the United States offers formal and practical protection to victims of domestic violence. But men don’t abuse women because of radio transmissions from Mars. Domestic violence isn’t due to any foreign influence. It happens because men are taught that they can abuse and that they should. Every abuser operates with some sanction from his community and culture. Our murdered wives die in our cultural context, and that cultural context also tells men that women are property to control with violence.

  44. But for the dislocated heads? The proof of the pudding is in the fetishization of cutting sinew and slicing through the vertebrae of the necks of living humans while chanting of the Greatness of Allah. We’ll dicker about suras and hadiths and practice, and this Imam says x, but in the end, Sid, your task is to hide the rolling heads, and you can’t.

    This is strawman again. I’m not hiding heads, I’m asking you to prove your false statement. You made a bogus claim re: qur’anic-sanctioned puninshment and can now successfully clutch your pearls by showing that there are muslims who believe in/do beheading as punishment.

    Gee – look, Sid conducted a test with his trusty Islamometer, and Mrs. Hassan rated 9.8, whereas Mr. Hassan rated a lowly 4.3. Mrs. Hassan belonged to the popular “divorce your husband and live on your own” sect of Orthodox Sunni practice, apparently.

    If you had actually read most of the accounts of the case, instead of being a douche reactionary, you would have found out that most friends/family described her as far more religious than he was. But obviously, looking up facts is a useless endeavor for you. Why don’t you just kill all the gawddamn sand niggaz for us and preserve our American identity? Jesus.

  45. Well, you see, of all the opinions of Peterson and Simpson, I don’t recall anyone seriously positing that either had the right to kill the victim – they supported some theory of innocence.

    Maybe not in public, but I can tell you from personal experience that quite a few people felt that they were justified and were more than willing to say so when they felt they were in safe company. Perhaps one of the most telling things about both groups of defenders is that they were willing to cling to any theory of innocence, they were willing to accept any explanation. That tells me that it isn’t a rational belief in the innocence of these men that prodded their defenders but a belief that somehow what they did wasn’t a big deal. People can negate a murder in a lot of ways. It seems that the only one you’re willing to accept is an explicit, honest defense of the crime.

    Insofar as humans will, from time to time, murder one another – even in a Progressive Utopia – then no culture deserves credit in your view.

    First of all I don’t believe in the possibility of Utopia and second I’m not a progressive. Just because I’m posting on a feminist blog doesn’t mean I conform to the fantasies you’ve developed about who might do such a thing.

    Now that we’ve that out of the way, you’re right, I don’t believe any culture deserves much credit. The one constant about humanity is that it disappoints. Moreover, I’m not exactly a believer in linear progression or abstract Truth so the whole discussion is moot. I value what I value and I defend it, but I’m not so arrogant as to assume that somehow the universe is behind me.

    I understand this, however I disagree, and believe that the West is superior in the non-beheading of wives arena. I know about Henry VIII, etc., however I am speaking of the United States in 2009.

    Different people transgress in different ways, different cultures direct us to obtain the same basic goals using different means. In the west we don’t behead quite as often (although, to go back to the Simpson example, Nicole Brown was very nearly beheaded) but we still kill with unacceptable regularity. We beat, we stab, we shoot, we poison, we strangle, we imagine shocking array of ways to kill our partners. It seems you’re taking your disgust and shock at beheading and using that to convince yourself that somehow those murders are worse. A corpse is a corpse, and a society which turns it’s eyes (either implicitly or explicitly) is complicit.

    Just like I don’t have a problem seeing that the West sort of has the wife-beheading thing licked.

    You’re missing the point, and I’m starting to suspect thats willful. You’re focusing on the ritual, you’re imagining that somehow the way in which this man justified murdering his wife amplifies the crime. Perhaps you take offense at religion being so sullied, perhaps you have some deeper objection to Islam, perhaps beheading or ritualism is particularly disturbing to you. Me, I could give a shit why or how a man murders his wife. All of the justification is just a faint, murder is about dominance, control, and aggression. You can spin it however you want, but at the end of the day someone is dead because someone else thought they had the right. Everything else is, to my mind, irrelevant.

  46. I think all murders are created equal.

    I don’t think whether or not this was an honor killing, and I agree we cannot know, amplifies its nature, as William says above. Again, murder is murder, and DV happens in all cultures at all levels.

    I do understand what Violet Socks was saying, however. On average, across cultures, different cultures have different views about women. That doesn’t make it OK to make blanket statements about a culture or individuals within it. But I think it’s fine for Violet to say, in essence: we don’t have to pretend violence against women is evenly spread. It isn’t.

    You’re right that nobody has suggested a dual legal system. But March isn’t coming out of nowhere with “We need to draw a line between respect for other cultures and not accepting practices which harm women.” Some cultures do have practices followed by some constituents which harm women. Of course, the cultures are varied and not everyone within the cultures subscribes to those practices, so condemnation of the cultures as a whole is wrong.

    But I think there’s some nuance here that isn’t being discussed in the OP, perhaps in an understandable desire to be cautious around these issues.

  47. Ah, yes, honour killings. About a year ago, there were two murders that took place in the same week by two men against their wives. One was committed by a “brown” man, and the other by a “white” man. Which one do you suppose got the label “honour killing” within the first moment of the news story and which got more coverage during the entire week.

    As for this situation… people on this post can jump up and down and side to side and wiggle their eyebrows as much as they like, but the fact is, we don’t know if it was an honour killing or not. Beheading, while a disgusting practice, is not “the key” to determine if it was an honour killing.

    Featherstone, QC, I apologize if this is not the case, but everything you have said so far screams of “barbaric them” versus “civilized you.” I have not read one statement you’ve put down that acknowledges that violence is an issue around the world. You mention that some people in certain places of the world feel self justified in killing of women. Well, I don’t know all that much about murder, but any person who commits it against another person, and certainly yes, someone who has been abusing another for years, feels that they have a right to do so. That is kind of a prerequisite for abuse – the abuser thinks they have the right.

    When you say that this sort of thing is only “okay-ed” in certain spheres of the world and that the west is far to civilized to do it, you’re making matters worse by refusing to acknowledge that the issue is violence against women, not sharia law in USA.

    But, you are right in a way. Honour killings are a gray area in some parts of the world, but as far as my knowledge goes, an honour killing is decided upon by the intended victim’s entire family, not just the husband. So this cannot really be an honour killing, because as yet, the husband is the only one charged. Until it comes out that her family got together and decided that this was to happen, then it cannot really be an “honour killing” in the true sense of the world.

  48. octo, can you give a synopsis of what that link says? I clicked on it, but it said that the paper was not available online at this time.

    Color me skeptical of any claim that violence against women isn’t evenly spread. I’m a survivor of DV, both as a child and an adult. Not one of those instances was ever reported to the police or any other form of “authority” who is supposed to give a shit about such things, including the incident when, after I left my husband and had divorce papers served, he kicked the door of my apartment in at 4:00AM and tried to murder me. (with a ninja outfit on, camoflage paint on his face, and knives strategically taped to his body. good for me the previous years of abuse left me with a roaring case of insomnia, huh? the prick actually said he expected to find me asleep).

    (counting 3….2….1…..for some version of “gee, why didn’t you just leave?” to show up)

    If there’s one thing I’m sure of in my bones about DV, it’s that whatever, wherever the statistics come from, it’s just the tip of the iceberg. Like standing on top of Mt. Everest and forgetting there’s a whole fucking mountain underneath. I don’t know that I can concretely explain the level of shame and humiliation involved with having DV committed against you. I don’t know that I can explain to someone who doesn’t already understand why it is difficult to talk about. I feel an obligation to talk about it, because one of the things that made it so hard for me to escape was my lack of positive role models; women who had been there, done that, got out, and were still ok. Women I could relate to.

    See, when I out myself as being a DV survivor, I get the “you??!!” response. As if this isn’t something that can happen to anyone. My most frequent response from white women (working class or middle class) is, “oh, my husband (or boyfriend, as the case may be) has never (or would never) do that to me. He knows better.” As if she’s such a big badass. News for ya sister, my scrawny ass successfully fought off a tall, armed man who outweighed me by over 100 pounds; I don’t really think it’s your supposed bad-assed-ness that keeps him from hitting you. The most frequent response I get from WOC is a shake of the head, knowing look, or hug. What that says to me—that women who’ve had the experience of being silenced, or not believed/taken seriously elsewhere in their lives can relate to what DV does to a person psychologically even if they haven’t been in that experience themselves. Women who think they have the option of being believed or respected can indulge the illusion that if Shit Happens, they won’t necessarily be stained with it.

    I can assure all the readers here (and especially our resident troll on this thread) that folks in general in the U.S. look the other way when DV is happening. Look the other way when they suspect DV is happening. And then wonder why people living in that hell don’t trust the cops ofr “justice” system to help. I should know better than to come to any thread about DV, but goddammit, do you know what probably the number one reason why “she doesn’t just leave” is? Hmmm? C’mon, take a guess. What the fuck good does it do to just leave when they can find you at work. There’s a reason domestic violence advocates tell women to work out an escape plan ahead of time, y’know.

    I’m getting off topic, I know. It’s just all so interrelated. If my husband had sucessfully killed me, there wouldn’t have been any blaming of his religion (which he didn’t practice, anyway). There would have been blaming of me for why I didn’t X, Y, or goddamn Z.

    My mother? She never even told her sisters about DV. You have no idea the level of silence there is around that issue. Me, I never went to the cops because (a) I always fought back, thus making me eligible for arrest too (despite the fact that he was a much larger opponent) (b) I did not trust the police to take my claim seriously, as I never had any broken bones or “burning bed” type bruises, (c) I look like the stereotypical “kind of woman who likes that sorta thing” (y’know, fiery Italian chick), and thus I probably deserved it. (d)I was raised to distrust cops in general, (e) you don’t let private business out in public, need I go on?

    People who volunteer or work at DV shelters or outreach say that DV is widespread in all races, classes, geographic areas, cultures, etc. I believe them.

  49. La Lubu, the paper (which I now cannot access either, and read in an earlier iteration) says in part that different cultures look at gender in different ways, in terms of full personhood, and that while this isn’t across the board, it affects incidence of violence towards women.

    Having in fact volunteered at a DV shelter, I’m aware that “DV is widespread in all races, classes, geographic areas, cultures, etc. I believe them.” I don’t think anyone is too bad-ass, or white, or rich, or educated, or feminist, or anything, to be a victim of it. I know women who are some or all of these things who have been.

    And all that said, as the OP says but then backs off from: “Violence against women is of course shaped by culture.” There are some cultures in which, percentagewise, it’s greater than in others. That doesn’t mean it cannot exist in others, or that there are not many within those cultures whose practice of them does not involve any bad treatment of women.

    I worked in Tokyo for a summer at a US-based company, whose HQ in the US I also worked at. Only anecdotally, of course, there was no comparison re the things women were expected to do, and whether things like an assistant getting her butt publicly slapped was OK. That doesn’t mean these things didn’t happen in the US HQ ever or that I’m making a broad statement about the respective countries. But the difference was fairly remarkable.

  50. Feathersone, beheading typically involves a terrorist act. Most honour killing victims are done in the “old-fashioned” way. I do recall a case here in Jordan where a guy got “creative” and decided to drown his sister in the Dead Sea. Hard to do, but he managed it regardless (he got 10 years – not a whole lot, but still better than the usual 6-months-in-jail-the-family-has-suffered-enough BS).

    We don’t know what exactly happened in the Hassan case just yet – but perhaps the guy got off on it. Perhaps he was inspired by grainy footage from the terrorists. Perhaps it made him feel strong.

    I do not believe that religioun is the basis for such murders, though I think that religion, with its symbolism and its mystery, provides both a convenient excuse and a kind of sick muse, if you will.

    I know it’s supposed to be just “West vs. East” in these conversations – but I have to point out, in Ukraine, I hear of murders undercut by religious symbolism. I think that religious communities often fail people by tacitly promoting misogyny and then standing back and marveling at the violence. I’m an untraditional Christian, but a Christian nonetheless, and it frightens me.

    Ditto on the excuses for the Nicole Brown Simpson murder, by the way. I was shocked by what I overheard about it at school.

    Now, when we look at someone like Scott Peterson, another person who has been brought up – we see that he was probably someone who brooded on financial issues before deciding to commit murder. Can we blame our capitalist system for this tragedy? We can talk about its role – but the truth of the matter is, most of us wouldn’t go Peterson’s route. And frankly, it’s giving the murderer an excuse.

    I feel like it’s the same with honour crimes. The “God” excuse is no more profound than the “debt issues” excuse. People do like to play along more with the former, though – because it’s just so darn… poetic? Maybe? It allows them to hang back and never examine their own issues with misogyny and violence.

    Honour killing is essentially tribal. It existed before Islam. It exists today, both because of tribalism and a metropolitan kind of Islamism that is employed by honour killing apologists. A lot of the support for it is political in nature. It has become an issue for reactionaries.

    Anyway, I do live in one of those scary Muslim countries you’re talking about, Featherstone, and although I miss the States – I’m not going to pretend like it’s a gulag either. The pace of life is different and there are benefits as well as drawbacks, depending on your position in life. Maybe if you visited, you’d decide for yourself.

  51. Featherstone: Also, in regards to the whole “no one seriously considers it a man’s right to murder his wife” thing, I’d like to put Drew Peterson out front and center. I’m not sure how much national press the story has gotten, but it got a ton of attention in the Chicagoland area. Heres a guy who abused his first wife, had a second wife die under suspicious circumstances (a death that was initially ruled an accidental drowning until people started pushing for answers), and then had a third wife disappear after she had said to her pastor that he told her he killed his second wife. The guy was a cop and, shockingly enough, his cop buddies dragged their feet on the investigations. Both cases were pretty much allowed to go cold until local news gave them a lot of attention. The things you heard, the jokes that were made, the mental gymnastics people went through to explain why Drew Peterson wasn’t that bad of a guy or why the investigations were a waste of resources, all of the big and little things people did to minimize the crime stunk of one thing: a belief that killing two wives wasn’t that big a deal.

    You don’t have to have a society that openly discusses letting someone off who murdered their wife for society to send messages that the behavior was acceptable. Instead, as is the case with most examples of oppression in the modern west, the acceptance is more insidious. Everyone agrees that killing your wife is wrong, but late night hosts make cracks about it in their monologues, newspapers follow the stories sparsely or focus on those that make it someone else’s problem, men in locker rooms say things amongst themselves and no one feels comfortable calling foul, people quietly blame the victim (“what did she expect/why didn’t she leave?”), investigators drag their feet, juries hang, prosecutors plead down to manslaughter, judges give light sentences, parole boards kick them loose for good behavior, celebrities get to walk.

    Calling this one murder an honor killing lets us do a little bit of mental alchemy. It allows us to vent all of the discomfort and horror we feel about the situation on a convenient other while at the same time letting us avoid actually doing anything about the problem or thinking about the implications for us. We call for the blood of this other and convince ourselves that theres something fundamentally wrong with them. If they do this because there is something wrong with them then we don’t have to deal with it on a personal level. Its someone else’s problem, it can’t happen to us. We transmute our fear and anxiety about something in us and our society into disgust for someone else’s society. We push what we don’t like about ourselves off into a target that we can then criticize and attack. That allows us to shore up our own confidence in our culture while at the same time discharging all the of rage we feel, because now we have not only something to beat but something to be inferior.

  52. There are some cultures in which, percentagewise, it’s greater than in others.

    See, that is exactly what I’m skeptical of—how is that quantified? Especially considering the depths of silence and denial surrounding domestic violence. I don’t think the comparison with sexual harassment is apt, because it is only recently that sexual harassment has even been regarded as a problem, and it is something that was/is not only a part of workplace culture, but a public part of workplace culture. Even in communities where there is a certain de facto tacit acceptance if not approval of domestic violence (and folks, I’m thinking about my community here—it was a full house in my apartment building when my husband tried to kill me, and despite screaming at the top of my lungs for someone to call the police, no one did)—domestic violence happens mostly in private (or, where the perpetrator expects a certain amount of privacy or for witnesses to turn and look the other way).

    Here’s the thing—from what I can read, Aasiyah Hassan did all the “right things” a woman is supposed to do to get out of domestic violence. Even down to the order of protection. And still she ended up dead. And instead of the majority reaction being “why does this keep happening? why don’t orders of protection actually help?”, there’s the inevitable reaction of this being related to religion, even though there is no evidence of that. Oh, and including charges of cultural relativism by feminists for pointing out that Aasiyah Hassan’s murder was just another murder by another abusive husband.

    But I think there’s some nuance here that isn’t being discussed in the OP, perhaps in an understandable desire to be cautious around these issues.

    Again, haven’t seen it yet but I appreciate caution on the subject, considering the myths and disinformation (some of which can be seen in that table Jill pointed out) that are out there. Shit, I’ve seen bogus responses on the subject by self-identifying feminists. Hell, my father has identified as a feminist for most of his adult life, including the years when he was beating his wife (and me). Domestic violence is something it seems everyone wants to believe is something “those other people” do. I haven’t met very many women who claimed rape was something they never worried about, but I’ve met lots of women who think DV isn’t something that is ever going to happen to them.

    As for helping women actually stay alive, I’d like to see GPS ankle bracelets on the perpetrators, and 24-hour armed bodyguard protection for the victims. The GPS would help provide notice to the bodyguards on when to be locked, loaded and ready to shoot. You know, we provide fire departments to serve the interests of public safety, no? Why not have an anti-domestic violence department?

  53. I don’t think it can be ascribed to his religion either. Neither can Southern Baptists homophobia or Roman Catholic Church’s misogyny have anything to do with their religious proclamations. The guy was obviously corrupted by his time in the west and should be declared innocent and offered feminists’ company so he can learn to love again.

  54. Sure. Except I women are tortured and killed by their partners in “unusual” and horrific ways every day — we just don’t hear about them. On the heels of this case, a story broke a few days ago about a woman decapitated by her partner in Virginia. I have a feeling that if this woman’s killer hadn’t been Muslim, we wouldn’t even be hearing about it.

    It’s true that had the beheading been done by a white person that we wouldn’t be hearing about it.

    It’s also true that regardless of the perpetrator’s background, killing one’s wife is an abomination.

    That said, beheading, while certainly an unusual way of murdering someone here, is far less an unusual practice in Muslim cultures.

    I understand that we have become far too Islamophobic as a culture as a result of the moron who ran the country for the last 8 years, and I also understand that the vast majority of Muslims are no no more violent than the vast majority of people of any other religious background.

    I also get disgusted by the loony wingnuts who are gleefully using this story as “proof” that all Muslims are uncivilized barbaric monsters.

    That said… I don’t think we can just categorically deny the possibility that this man’s actions might have been tied to his religious beliefs.

    The truth is, wacky religious zealotry exists in ALL faiths, and that zealotry can manifest in horrifically misogynistic ways. To deny that there is a violently misogynistic aspect among some militant adherents of Islam is ignoring reality.

    And of course, I view the actions of Christian churches as being far more damaging to women in America when looking at society as a whole, but I don’t think that means we need to automatically dismiss the possibility that this man’s religion may have played a part in his brutal crime.

  55. You can spin it however you want, but at the end of the day someone is dead because someone else thought they had the right. Everything else is, to my mind, irrelevant.

    I dislike the line of argumentation, because it sounds awfully close to the line of argumentation used by conservatives who speak out against hate-crimes legislation.

    They say, “Why should the motivation or method matter in deliberating a violent crime? Murder is murder, we don’t need a hate crimes law telling us that we need to treat violence and gays differently.”

  56. That said… I don’t think we can just categorically deny the possibility that this man’s actions might have been tied to his religious beliefs.

    The truth is, wacky religious zealotry exists in ALL faiths, and that zealotry can manifest in horrifically misogynistic ways. To deny that there is a violently misogynistic aspect among some militant adherents of Islam is ignoring reality.

    Heres the personal litmus test that I use. Lets say everything about this man was identical except that he was a Catholic, do you think he still would have killed his wife? I can buy the argument that his religion might have had a lot to do with the means he chose to kill his wife, but any more than that feels like looking for an excuse not to think about what this means for us. Sure his actions might have been tied to his religious beliefs but the person holding those beliefs, the person who committed murder, was using religion in a specific way for specific reasons that have little to do with the faith itself. We aren’t talking about someone of exceptionally weak will who has been indoctrinated by a charismatic leader over a period of months of years, we aren’t talking about the Manson Family or Synanon. We’re talking about a guy who practiced the majority religion of his culture and murdered his wife.

    I dislike the line of argumentation, because it sounds awfully close to the line of argumentation used by conservatives who speak out against hate-crimes legislation.

    Thats a poor analogy. If you beat the hell out of a black man to send the message that black men aren’t welcome in your community the act and it’s intent are clearly different from beating the hell out of a black man in a bar fight. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the intent of this murder was to send a message to other women in the community, and I certainly haven’t seen much evidence of that.

    The issue of faith is irrelevant to me in this case because I don’t believe it has anything to do with the underlying crime. If you have a man who is involved in shooting sports and he kills his wife during an argument, theres a good chance he’ll use a gun. That doesn’t mean the NRA had anything to do with the murder. If there hadn’t have been a gun handy (or if for whatever reason he liked the symbolism) he would have used a knife, or a lamp, or his fists, or any of a thousand other weapons. The fact that the man in this case used a sword to behead his wife might have a lot to do with his faith, but I don’t think it had much to do with why he killed her.

  57. LaLubu — I guess we will agree to disagree about whether cultures who on average have differing views about the personhood of women would see different incidence of violence towards women.

    For example, the Koran sanctions women being second class citizens, to adopt a very conservative interpretation. Women must obey their husbands and can otherwise be disciplined, arguably beaten. From what I understand, the Koran is predominantly taken at face value. Women’s testimony is worth half that of a man, inheritance share is half, a woman’s life is worth half that of a man if she is killed.

    While we cannot make assumptions about Muslims as individuals, it seems that many do feel the Koran is authoritative. Even if one allows for flexible meanings, is it so unreasonable to make comparisons? As second class as women are in other cultures, I think it’s fair to say in very general terms that there seem to be some differences in view of women and permissible treatment of women.

  58. I’ve been arguing about whether muslims were violent on a youtube comment page and this case came up. I pointed out that one domestic violence case doesn’t prove that they’re violent. Now it turns out that there is zero connection to religion. Does anyone know whether this guy was even devout? Or was he a holidays-only mosque goer?

  59. I completely agree with the author. I did see a comment that bothered me though.

    Featherstone, QC says:

    Beheading is the Qur’anic-prescribed method/punishment for certain offenses, including apostasy and blasphemy.

    Nowhere in the Qur’an is beheading a punishment for anything. Blasphemy is not punishable (by death or any other means) in the qur’an, and neither is apostacy (except in times of war, when people would join the religion to spy on the troops).

    Just because the screwed up “shariah” courts of today punish everything with death and cutting off body parts, doesn’t mean it has anything to do with Islam. The same goes for domestic violence: just because uneducated people across the world think its OK to torture their wives to death, and just because corrupt religious leaders say its OK, doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the religion.

    If you are going to bash this poor lady’s religion, at least make sure you are educated about it.

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