In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

But, but, but, SHE’S FAT!

Jill

gabourey

Something to make you see red today: “Congrats on the role of a lifetime, Gabourey Sidibe. Self-esteem is a beautiful thing. But we should celebrate your performance, not your size. Obesity is a national epidemic.”

Hey, Gabby, you may be an amazing actress and you may have high self-esteem and you may be really satisfied right now because you’re smart and beautiful and talented and successful BUT! You’re a fatty-fat-fat! So quit acting like you deserve happiness.

So putting aside the PC platitudes, the facts tell a different story. Yes, Sidibe is a promising performer, one who’s already generating Oscar buzz. So if we just stick to her acting, kudos. But if we’re talking about her size—which has become part of the conversation—are people delusional? A five-foot-something woman tipping the scales at over 300 pounds is not something to celebrate. That’s SUPER fat, and no matter how passionately you argue the opposite, medical science will pull the plug on that position: Your health will suffer from carrying such an extreme amount of weight. Obesity can lead to a host of dangerous health issues including high blood pressure, diabetes, respiratory problems and sleep apnea—and that’s just the short list. When you’re extremely overweight, even walking becomes a struggle.

And what about the psychological issues? As well adjusted as Sidibe purports to be, there’s got to be an emotional disconnect between the mind and body. Finding comfort eating one’s way to morbid obesity is not healthy, nor is it self-affirming.

The author also criticizes the hyper-skinny norms in Hollywood and advertising, and concludes that we should all just be healthy — she cites a 180-pound woman in Glamour Magazine and the Dove Real Beauty campaign as steps in the right direction. She writes:

Real women can, and do, have curves; people do come in all different shapes and sizes. So the message is to be the healthiest you. That means not hauling around a mountain of excess of weight that limits activities and invites health problems. Nor does it mean starving yourself or over-exercising to the brink of cardiovascular failure. It’s about being comfortable in your own skin and loving yourself, but always striving to be better. If you’re overweight, say yes to dropping some pounds, but do so with an emphasis on obtaining better health.

So… people come in shapes and sizes, except really skinny and really fat. And Alicia is the arbitrator of what’s what.

I also support healthy eating and exercise. I think we should do more to make healthy foods accessible; we should do more to make exercise a reasonable possibility (that means more leisure time, more sidewalks, more parks, more open spaces in urban areas, accessible spaces for people with disabilities, and better healthcare so that people feel good and are physically able to move and to exercise). I think food is a great pleasure, and we all deserve to eat food that nourishes us and keeps us healthy. I think exercise is fun, and we all deserve access to it, whatever that means given our physical abilities. These are good things. I even think that, beyond making them accessible and available, we should incentivize them.

But, a couple of caveats. If, despite the availability of healthy food, someone wants to sit on their couch all day and eat Big Macs? Wouldn’t be my choice, and I don’t understand it, but, meh. Go for it. Not really my business. And even if we all ate healthy, nourishing food, and even if we all exercised, there would still be fat people. There would also be skinny people. And online columnists who have no idea what Gabby Sidibe eats or how often she exercises would still be totally unqualified to evaluate her physical and mental health.

53 thoughts on But, but, but, SHE’S FAT!

  1. My first thought: over 300? Really? I would have said around 230. Fantastic! Really fit and tightened up!

    I think she looks great, and I’d love a close-up of her purty blue ring.

    (Good God, did they really use the term “Disgusting Fat Pig” in the first paragraph of the article?)

  2. “If, despite the availability of healthy food, someone wants to sit on their couch all day and eat Big Macs? Wouldn’t be my choice, and I don’t understand it, but, meh. Go for it. Not really my business.”

    But Jill, it is your business because it affects you and me. When people become obese they are more disposed to having health problems and in turn drive up medical costs by consuming healthcare services for problems that could have been prevented. They hurt themselves and typically their children are hurt by having a greater chance of becoming obese themselves. Of course, some larger people cannot control their size and are healthy in spite of it. Likewise, some skinny people are very unhealthy. But some obese people are bad, lazy, stupid people. Quit being PC and admit some of them need to get off the couch, chuck the brownies, and grab an apple and go for a walk once in a while.

  4. Wow Derek! What an original argument! I imagine that none of us here had ever heard that one before! No one has ever previously suggested that people should do exactly what you want with their own bodies, and that you have the right to shame them for it if they refuse, because that’s, like, your tax dollars! Or something.

    Please go back under the bridge from which you came.

  5. No shit.

    Derek, if you’re a man, it’s pretty much a lock that you’re going to be consuming more resources than women once you hit a certain age; heart disease and prostate cancer, you know? Under your theory, what do *you* plan to do to reduce the burden on *my* health care system? Sex change? Putting yourself on an ice floe? Moving to Sweden? Let’s hear it.

  6. We should really re-think the way we treat people. Aren’t we all different in some way? AND did they really say “Stop acting like you deserve to be happy!” OMG!! That basically says that if there is something wrong with our bodies, we should be miserable about it. My daughter is 15 years old and 140 lbs. She’s about 5’5″ and she thinks she’s huge!! Well, she’s not of course, but that lack of self esteem comes from tv and people like the one who wrote this article!

  7. Yes, maude forbid this woman be happy. She’s fat-fat-fatty-fat and no one, especially a woman, can be happy that way, dammit! /sarcasm

    Has fat-phobia peaked yet?

  8. All this really makes me want to scream. Every day I try so desperately just to keep the track of public thought out of my head. It’s all I can do to NOT be ashamed of being in public weighing what I do (260lbs). I have to not burst into tears every time I have move sideways to get through a passage my thinner friends made it through easily. Each time I bump into anything or appear to be anything less than stylish & tidy I become so self conscious I literally function w/tunnel vision. I don’t see anyone, I don’t hear anyone.

    B/c it’s all I can do so that I won’t go back to eating in toilet stalls b/c I don’t want to be shamed by anyone seeing me eating anything that isn’t a fruit or veggie. Or to make sure I am not breathing so loudly or huffing & puffing as to attract attention. To make sure I am taking up as little space as possible.

    I mean, wtf? I am not asking to be praised as the Goddess of All Beauty. I’m just want to not feel as if I should be ashamed to exist among the public. Like I am bad, faulty, unlovable, inhuman, & undeserving.

    I was once, many years ago, appalled at my grandmother when she said to me “You have to be strong b/c the world hates fat black women” Fuck all if it isn’t true.

  9. My first thought: over 300? Really? I would have said around 230. Fantastic! Really fit and tightened up!

    No, that’s pretty much what 300 pounds looks like. 230 pounds generally looks much smaller than that. People just have no idea what heavier weights actually look like. She does look fantastic though, I desperately covet her dress.

  10. Derek, I’d like to remind you that EVERYONE does something in their private lives that will drive up the cost of health insurance premiums, real estate, material goods, gas, whatever. We all “pay” for the “choices,” the “lifestyles,” and the status of other people. The only way you can escape THAT is to move to your own planet.

    IOW: What Jill said in the OP. Reading is fundamental. There’s a huge difference between actually making active lifestyles and healthful eating a possible reality for people, and degrading and shaming someone who is fat. Here’s a hint: doing the latter does nothing to advance the former.

  11. What I find interesting about our culture’s beliefs about being fat is that, given the kind of work most Americans do, our perception of what causes “fatness” is almost 180 degrees from what actually does. Specifically, “laziness causes obesity”. Or “selfishness and greed cause obesity.”

    In order to have time to exercise, you need to either have a job that promotes physical activity, which most of us don’t, or you need to carve time out of your day to be physically active. Likewise, in order to eat healthily, you need to be able to carve time out of your day to cook. So the harder you work, the fatter you are likely to be. Pull 60 hours a week? Get fat. Commute for 2 hours each day so your kids can have a good school and a big yard and you can have a job that supports them well? Get fat. Keep your house spotlessly clean despite having children? Get fat. Spend a lot of your time driving your kids to activities? Get fat. Spend a lot of your time volunteering and doing community-benefiting activities? Get fat.

    The only way to remain thin, if you aren’t metabolically blessed with a body that just stays thin no matter what you do, is to take time out of your day to focus on *you* and your health. Don’t spend that time working, don’t spend it serving other people like your kids or your elderly mom or the homeless… spend it on yourself. Instead of eating whatever’s convenient, you need to obsess over and be very finicky about food, to the point of being rude in social gatherings because you can’t eat with others. If you’re on a very low calorie diet and suffering hunger pangs, you might need to accept that you’re probably going to be mean and nasty to other people because you’re in pain and your blood sugar’s low, so if you’re a good person who hates to be cruel to others, you might find it impossible to diet.

    As nearly as I can see, “thin” is a state achieved either by people who don’t work for it at all, who just have a fast metabolism, and who may or may not be fit… or by people who have time and money to focus intently on their own personal health and well being at the expense of everyone else in their lives. So no, being obese probably does not mean you are a bad, lazy, stupid person. It might very well mean that you’re a hard-working, generous and giving person who’s unwilling to deprive others who need you of your resources, and so can’t get the time to do what’s necessary to lose weight. In fact, given that lack of sleep provably causes weight gain, I’d argue that driven, ambitious people who deprive themselves of sleep to get things done are more likely to be fat.

    It would not be okay to shame people for being overweight even if it *was* caused by laziness, because your body is your own and no one has the right to tell you what to do with it, and unlike drugs and alcohol, fatness does not impede your ability to think and reason, so it has essentially no effect whatsoever on other people. (No, I don’t accept the whole “fat people use more medical resources!” argument, and I never will so long as the majority of people who have lifestyle-related medical needs are young men who get hurt doing stupid risky stuff. I notice no one castigates motorcycle drivers who go helmetless.) But, in fact, it’s even more unfair to do so, because being overweight is most likely caused by not having free time, which is either the result of poverty or the result of spending your free time caring for others. Or, it may also be caused by illnesses *or* treatment for illnesses; antidepressants, for example, make many people gain weight.

  12. Alara, you just blew my mind. That’s fabulous. And true. So nicely done.

    Mind if I toss in some more? People lament obesity in children. They probably should, given the risks to kids’ future health. But do these same folks vote in enough local funds for mandatory gym in their local school systems? Or to repair local parks to make them usable? Or to support sufficient police presence so kids can play safely in unsafe areas? Do they do anything to promote good nutrition and physical activity for the kids in their sphere of influence–and to make them practical realities?

    I got a dollar here that says the answers to those and similar questions is a resounding NO.

    Being thin in this culture is first a matter of genetics, then a matter of money and time. If you ain’t got the right genes (the kind that resist weight gain, which science now suspects strongly of having its own beaucoup complex survival instinct and mechanisms)…then you better have enough money to buy yourself the time to get there.

  13. Wow. How dare she be happy and not hate herself?!

    Damn it, some people are fat and that’s fine, if folks are worried about, why don’t they implement policies that make regular exercise more feasible for people who want to exercise?

  14. Roses, you’re right; if we are ALL lying about our weight, we have no idea what any weight “really” looks like. I hadn’t really thought about that! Thanks for the enlightenment today.

  15. And I mean higher weights in particular, I wasn’t erasing your statement about higher weights! I was agreeing w/it.

    By “we”–I guess I meant me. I weigh 170 lbs, but often lie and say 165. Now, really, who gives a shit about five measely pounds and why do I still reflexively do that? (They’ve messed with my mind.)

    Derek, I wasn’t being PC, I really do think she looks great. Happiness radiates from a person and has everything to do with their appearance…BTW, doesn’t happiness and self-esteem influence health, too?

  16. Wow, I wanted to leave a comment and I wrote and essay. Apologies.

    I’m not at all bothered by the fact that some people are bigger than is healthy- it’s none of my goddamn business.

    I know marathon runners and triathletes who injure themselves all the time, but I don’t presume to question their choices (okay, so that’s partly because I’m making similar ones, but you get the idea).

    People hurt themselves pursuing all sorts of hobbies and put themselves in danger and at risk performing a number of daily activities, why pick on eating? Especially in a culture that has shows like Top Chef and Good Easts that highlight and celebrate epicurean delights (I love those shows.)

    If someone wants to gain weight, lost weight, not care about weight, or simply maintain- they should be left alone to make that decision for themselves.

    @Alara,

    I agree completely. I’m undertaking a very heavy exercise regimen in preparation for my first athletic competition since high school. That’s two to three hours a day of non-continuous activity. How much weight do you lose with this kind of activity and investment in time? Not much, not only is it unhealthy to lose more than 1-2 pounds a week, but unwise from a performance perspective. I do have to lose weight because it’s literally weighing me down, but it requires a lot of patience and perseverance unless you want to be hospitalized and placed under watch. Most people don’t have that kind of money, and I don’t think many doctors would go for it.

    You CAN drastically lower your caloric intake and it will work but one of the rare but ever-present dangers of consuming under 800 calories daily is sudden death. Not many people are willing to take that risk, especially not to get healthier.

    Gaining weight is extremely easy for the average person. Evolution has made our bodies err on the side of caution in fear of scarcity. Losing weight on the other hand, is a significant investment in time that most people don’t have and in the case of some who’s 300 lbs overweight, is hardly an overnight job. Meanwhile there are unscrupulous people out there who capitalize on the average dieter’s lack of time/ability to research what healthy dieting is, and what it means. (Healthy “diet” is a daily habit, not a temporary regime) Instead, they set dieters back in there progress, because any change in eating habits tends to lead to weight-loss at first, but then when they start gaining weight again, they become distraught at failure and tend to put on even more weight than before. These people should be fined as swindlers for selling bullshit.

    One of the reasons I have the luxury of being able to lose weight is not because I’m a hard worker. I’m a college student whose parents can afford to put me through without my having to get a job or take on debt. I’m also in a situation where I can’t increase my courseload any further because of prerequisites, I have that kind of time, and I don’t take it for granted.

    Still, all of this presumes that we shouldn’t discriminate against overweight and obese people because it’s not their choice. This is intellectually lazy though. Choice is the epitome of freedom, and if you can discriminate against (read: punish) people for making choices you find undesirable, then it’s not really a free society, is it?

  17. Holy shit. That was nasty.

    “So how do we reconcile the bizarre extremes; the pressure to be painfully thin and the backlash that glorifies obesity?”

    Wow. Somehow I missed the “backlash that glorifies obesity”, all I saw was a backlash against fat hate. So now less hate = glorification. And this was on theRoot? Wow.

    And ummmm, does the author not realize that her entire article re-inforces the “pressure to be painfully thin” == which by the way, who’s feeling that “pain” in the painfully thin anyway. The gazer or the person who is starving themself? Wow. just wow.

    Did the author bother to address the economic inequalities that lead to obesity? Or address the way these economic inequalities often affect minorities disproportionatly? Not that I read.

    And she speaks about the Dove campaign “Hopefully the idea and images will gain traction and lead to some real and lasting changes in how we view ourselves and the body type that we idealize.” — Ummm, maybe we SHOULD NOT “IDEALIZE” BODY TYPES AT ALL!

    duh.

  19. And Derek, people who mouth off about things they don’t really understand put themselves at risk. I don’t want to have my tax dollars used to keep you on a feeding tube after someone knocks you into a coma for being a loudmouth jerk who calls them “stupid, bad, lazy”. So shut up before you start costing me money.

  20. @Derek, Not only is your argument fat shaming nonsense, it is extremely class biased of you to argue about tax dollars and health. In case you are not aware, the US is a pay per use country and as far as I can tell NO insurance companies are suffering. They simply refuse to insure people they consider high risk, so exactly what is this costing you again?
    People like you that privilege money over healthcare completely disgust me. Instead of seeing a living breathing human being, you see dollars and risk. This is an example of exactly how badly you have allowed capitalism to warp any semblance of humanity you may have inside you. No matter what the reason, if someone is sick they deserve to be cared for and the idea that someone only deserves care or sympathy if they did not bring it upon themselves is ridiculous. If a newborn baby can be considered uninsurable, what kind of safety net does anyone have?

  21. I love it. It’s like people are going to go out and become obese so they can act as well as Sidibe. Because that’s what people do. They purposely become members of marginalized groups.

  22. Everyone’s already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, but I want to add that I hate, hate, HATE when people presume that fat people are always depressed; not just that they are secretly dissatisfied with their weight, but also that they are overeating for some horrible psychopathological reason. And of course, it’s just because they eat a lot, there couldn’t be any other reason.

  24. I vote that “young men who take stupid risks in disproportionate numbers” in driving accidents should be excluded from my auto premiums.

  25. Oh, dude. I’m in the neighborhood of 220 to 230 pounds, thanks to the magic beans I take for my depression. Only about 5% of American women are fatter than I, in fact. And even *I* probably couldn’t weigh 300 pounds if I tried. What the poop is with this idea that a 300-pound woman on screen will make us all 300 pounds? Most women probably couldn’t even manage to weigh what *I* do, let alone what Sidibe weighs. Genetic capacity and set points, anyone?

    And as for the health shit, I demand to see Villarosa’s iTunes file, her DVD collection, her bookshelves, and her TiVo to make sure nobody in there smokes or drinks like a fish or has a drug problem of any kind. Unless it’s all Mormon Tabernacle Choir and nothing else, I call flaming BS.

  26. I find it interesting. There is a misconception people have about “big” people and their health. My mom who is 5’6″ and probably weighs about 180 is considered overweight. However, her blood pressure is great. She suffers from hypothyroidism (which is genetic).

    All I’m saying is that what may hold true for some doesn’t hold true for all. A person could be overweight but have great blood pressure, for instance.

    But why the eff are we even talking about this?

  29. “It’s about being comfortable in your own skin and loving yourself”

    “[. . .]are people delusional? A five-foot-something woman tipping the scales at over 300 pounds is not something to celebrate. That’s SUPER fat.”

    One of these things is not like the other.

  30. Lesley at Fatshionista also talked brilliantly about some of the ridiculous response to Sidibe:

    An astonishing amount of the language around Sidibe’s self-confidence and comfort in her own body is wrapped up in these mystified expressions. Doesn’t she know she looks like that? Should someone tell her? While I’m sure Daniels meant the above as a compliment, look at the options we get: 1. Denial that she looks so completely antithetical to cultural beauty ideals. 2. Alien from a planet where “her physicality” is “normal” and acceptable. 3. Evolution beyond an awareness of her body. Note there is no choice for “thoughtful acceptance” or “refusal to allow mainstream beauty standards to dictate one’s self worth”. If we as a culture assume that being self-confident and at ease with oneself is in direct opposition with being fat, isn’t that a problem?

  32. I know its hard to eat healthy and exercise when you have zero time, but its not impossible. My mother works 2 full time jobs and she still manages to eat healthy (mostly) and exercise. She carefully plans ahead, brings healhy food to work, etc. It is difficult but she does this because it is important to her and yeah, she does look fantastic. **sigh** anyone else out there the plain daughter of a beautiful woman?

    I’m not trying to make any one feel bad for not doing this. I just kind of felt like the message I was getting from the comments was “this is impossible so don’t even try”. I don’t like that kind of mindset. Just beacuse you will not be able to get the “Ideal” weight is no reason to give up. Eating right and exercising will make you healthier no matter what your weight is.

  33. “Eating right and exercising will make you healthier no matter what your weight is.”

    Actually no, kiki, exercising makes me really, really sick. Thanks for your concern, though why you thought it was in short supply is beyond me.

  34. Just beacuse you will not be able to get the “Ideal” weight is no reason to give up.

    Oh, sure, the kind of “giving up” where you launch your acting career with a reportedly brilliant performance in a film with a lot of buzz? Remember, ladies, your accomplishments don’t actually count as accomplishments if you’re fat.

  35. Oh wow. So people think that eating healthy and exercising for healths sake, not weight, is worthy of that kind of snark? No wonder so many people give up on their health. (Notice that I said health, not idiotic standard of what is beautiful)

  37. kiki, if you’re responding to my comment, I want to point out that this post is about Gabourey Sidibe being judged for how she looks, not for how she behaves. Jill is criticizing this in the original post. Perhaps Sidibe does exercise regularly and eat healthfully; perhaps she doesn’t. We just don’t know. The impulse to respond to images of happy or accomplished or attractive fat people with caveats about health and exercise is part of the dynamic Jill is critiquing here.

  38. What the fucking fuck?

    If I’m not mistaken, she wore padding to play Precious, both because Precious was pregnant and she was not, but also because she isn’t as fat as Precious. Which may account for the “she looks thinner than I expected” reactions.

    But it’s just predictable as all hell, isn’t it, that any little nod towards a fat person’s humanity (like, say, being able to buy clothes that aren’t shapeless, styleless synthetic schmattas) will result in howls of outrage that obesity is being “glorified.” How it’s being “glorified” in this instance isn’t at all clear to me; Precious’s life looks pretty damn miserable and unglamorous. Sidibe’s getting praised to the skies for her performance, and she isn’t really all that much heavier than Mo’Nique, as far as I can see. Maybe it’s because Sidibe not only plays the protagonist in this film and Mo’Nique essentially plays a monster (as opposed to her usual comedic role, where her weight is part of the joke) but she also *isn’t* downtrodden and depressed and speaks about how great she is without self-deprecation that she’s getting all this scrutiny and shame for her weight and, say, Mo’Nique isn’t.

    Maybe that’s the key: she can be fat in public, she just shouldn’t be so damn self-confident about it. Doesn’t she know she has to talk shit about herself to be acceptably fat?

  39. “(Notice that I said health, not idiotic standard of what is beautiful)”

    Oh, well that changes everything. Obviously we’re all under a moral imperative to be _healthy_. Lectures ahoy!

  40. Eating right and exercising will make you healthier no matter what your weight is.

    kiki, you don’t know what makes every body healthy. What works for your mother’s body (great for her) would make me literally incapable of moving. For days. Not because I am not used to the exercise (US Veteran here), but because it is dangerous for my body to do that any more. It is literally unhealthy for me to do more than light exercise for more than 3-5 minutes per day. Walking to the bus to pick my kid up from school…counts as exercise and actually over exerts me. I have to ration out how much movement I am allowed in a day. I can’t tailor my diet to that, because it would make Jenny Craig look like an all you can eat buffet. I think the snark comes from your universal statement that if someone isn’t doing this miraculous thing your mother is doing it is because we aren’t trying hard enough. Believe me.

    I wish I had that kind of body again…the kind that used to carry me seven to ten miles a day, or thousands of meters in a swimming pool when my legs shattered, or that was able to tolerate fifteen minutes of yoga when I wasn’t able to swim anymore. You don’t know why some people don’t work out. It isn’t because we don’t give a fuck about our health. It’s because we have to figure every minute of our day into our health.

    But like lauredhel said. Lectures ahoy!

  41. And by “that kind of body”, I should say, one that doesn’t feel is betraying me, because that is something I struggle with, and something that sentiments like these don’t help.

  42. You can’t everyone just see that she’s a good actor. Let her deal with her weight when and how she wants. I am so sick of closed minded people. Why do people always have to call them name… GET OVER IT AMERICA… Obesity is here people so suck it up and shut up about it all ready..

  43. Sorry, bit of an essay, but I felt the need to respond.

    @Alara:
    “Likewise, in order to eat healthily, you need to be able to carve time out of your day to cook.”
    Step 1: Whole wheat sliced bread
    Step 2: Peanut Butter
    Step 3: Put it in your face.
    It’s nonsense that you can only eat healthy if you cook. There are plenty of packaged, ready-to-eat options that are orders of magnitude healthier than a happy meal and not significantly more expensive.

    “So the harder you work, the fatter you are likely to be. Pull 60 hours a week? Get fat. Commute for 2 hours each day so your kids can have a good school and a big yard and you can have a job that supports them well? Get fat. Keep your house spotlessly clean despite having children? Get fat. Spend a lot of your time driving your kids to activities? Get fat. Spend a lot of your time volunteering and doing community-benefiting activities? Get fat.”
    How does cleaning your house, a physical activity that burns calories, make you fat? That literally makes no sense. Not to mention that none of those other things make you fat either. Not doing lots of physical activity doesn’t make you fat. Eating a lot AND not doing physical activity makes you fat. Not to mention the fact that many of those activities become a lot easier when you’re physically fit. Fit doesn’t have to mean a flat stomach (I’m 190 and 5’10” myself), but if you have so much excess body fat it makes your daily activities more difficult, maybe you’d be doing yourself and those around you a favor if you dropped it, regardless of externalized beauty ideals.

    “Instead of eating whatever’s convenient, you need to obsess over and be very finicky about food, to the point of being rude in social gatherings because you can’t eat with others.”
    Every vending machine I’ve seen has at least a granola bar or bottle water next to the Snickers and Coke. I know the market is saturated with unhealthy food, but it doesn’t take a huge effort to pick healthier options, and no one’s forcing you to eat LOTS of the unhealthy food available. Trust me, I’ve shopped on a low budget and managed to buy healthy stuff. And I’ve never heard of a social gathering (barring perhaps an eating contest) where it isn’t possible to limit your calorie intake without offending anyone. Eating healthy doesn’t mean never eating chips and dip at a party. It just means not eating too much of them on a regular basis.

    “If you’re on a very low calorie diet and suffering hunger pangs, you might need to accept that you’re probably going to be mean and nasty to other people because you’re in pain and your blood sugar’s low, so if you’re a good person who hates to be cruel to others, you might find it impossible to diet.”
    If you can’t keep from being cruel to others when you don’t have a constant sugar intake, you’ve got bigger problems than excess fat. I know people with serious chronic pain who manage to be perfectly civil and kind. You should never just “accept that you’re probably going to be mean and nasty to people.” That’s extremely selfish and defeatist.

    “As nearly as I can see, “thin” is a state achieved either by people who don’t work for it at all, who just have a fast metabolism, and who may or may not be fit… or by people who have time and money to focus intently on their own personal health and well being at the expense of everyone else in their lives.”
    Yeah, that’s why there’s more obesity in America than any other industrialized nation. Everyone else are genetic beneficiaries or rich, vain exercise freaks with no concern for other people. And that’s why obesity rates are skyrocketing in this country: everyone is becoming more hardworking and compassionate. It has nothing to do with an over-abundance of cheap, high calorie food, and the massive increase in their availability and concordant consumption over the last forty years.

    “the majority of people who have lifestyle-related medical needs are young men who get hurt doing stupid risky stuff. I notice no one castigates motorcycle drivers who go helmetless.”
    Are you kidding me? I can’t see a bare-headed cyclist ride by without someone around me saying “Why isn’t that idiot wearing a helmet?” Maybe the reason they don’t often get castigated when they’re injured is that people assume they’ll realize their mistake and never do it again. There’s an entire series of books (Darwin Awards) devoted to ridiculing people who injure themselves doing stupid things, not to mention a third of youtube. Also, it’s completely false that those injuries produce the majority of medical needs. Preventable illness makes up approximately 80% of the burden of illness and 90% of all healthcare costs. That ain’t jocks getting injured rock climbing.

    Look, I think the way the media is treating Sibide is disgusting (all the more so because nobody says a word about Jonah Hill whenever an Appatow movie comes out). But lets get something clear. Obesity is, for most people in most situations, avoidable and unhealthy. Maybe some people have genetic predispositions or health problems that make it impossible for them to shed fat, but for the vast majority of obese people, it would be strongly advisable for them to eat healthier food and exercise more. Yes, it’s difficult to balance with other responsibilities, but your physical health is important to you and those you care for. No one benefits from their mom or community organizer needing to pay for diabetes medication or dropping dead from a heart attack.
    I don’t think fat people are bad or lazy or that they deserve my derision. And I know it’s not my business if someone wants to weigh 500 lbs, just like it’s not my business if they want to smoke or never brush their teeth.

    But I do take issue with people claiming obesity has no negative consequences and should be ignored, and anyone who says different is a bigot. I think, like several other commenters, that the problem should be addressed through social programs to make physical fitness and healthy food more accessible to everyone, and certainly not through criticizing fat people. Treat the cause, not the symptom. But if we’re going to solve the problem, we need to recognize it as a problem.

  46. Robin, WRT cleaning the house, it’s not a sustainable calorie burn. Unless you’re cleaning a mansion all day, you’re not actually moving round for a prolonged time (and cleaning staff actually tend to develop repetitive stress injuries and work-related injuries such as back problems and muscle injuries, which make it difficult/impossible to exercise, let alone work). When I clean my place, I do not burn the number of calories that I do when I’m on the elliptical or the treadclimber. I do not burn the number of calories (or build the muscle) that one does while hiking or cross-country skiiing.

    Every vending machine I’ve seen has at least a granola bar or bottle water next to the Snickers and Coke.

    Granola, like the peanut butter you mentioned earlier in your comment, is very high in fat. A peanut-butter sandwich for dinner is NOT a particularly healthful or nutritious meal by itself. I’ve gotten home so wiped out after work that I’ve barely had the energy to boil pasta. Then again, I don’t have the body police swooping down, wagging their fingers about how I should be making better choices when I say something like that because I’m thin. My own habits aren’t all that healthy, yet there’s no moral panic directed at ME–so I call bullshit on the whole “this is about health” trope.

    If you can’t keep from being cruel to others when you don’t have a constant sugar intake, you’ve got bigger problems than excess fat.

    What’s your excuse? Because while you may be civil in your language, I’d like to point out that you’re “suggestions” and hectoring aren’t helpful. I suggest you look at Ouyang Dan’s comment before you post with your judgmental screeds about the bad choices fat people make again. While you’re at it, keep in mind that lectures like yours do a lot of freaking damage to people who have weight issues due to other physical conditions. I know people who have thyroid disorders and fibromyalgia who are obese; you can say that your lectures don’t include them so they should disregard what you say, but guess what–they get thinsplained by people like you every.fucking.day. It tires them right the fuck out. Then they are put in the position where they feel like they have to explain to perfect strangers what’s going on with them, and you know what? It’s no one’s business. Who are you or anyone else to hector anyone?

    You’re not coming off as encouraging people who are doing what they can do to live healthfully; you’re coming off as nasty.

    You know, Robin, I’m thin–I’ve finally gotten up to a normal size after years of being underweight, and I can tell you that when I don’t eat and my blood sugar tanks, I’m a real bitch. I also can’t think clearly when my blood sugar is low. That’s not an excuse, nor is it a character flaw, that’s a fact, and I have to make sure I eat every few hours to prevent my brain chemistry from going bonkers. Here’s another fact: I try to make time to work out, but don’t always have the time or the energy to do so. I get a pass from the peanut gallery because I am thin (so I must be fit and healthy amirite). I don’t get treated to lectures–if I mention that I haven’t been to the gym in a couple of weeks because I’m too damn wiped out after work, I don’t screeds from the bleating, yelping masses in a moral panic over my weight. I just get, “Well, I know what you mean, it’s not easy, and sometimes I’d rather just watch Supernatural.” Add 50-100 pounds on me and it would be a different story.

  47. Robin, did you know that at 5’10 and 190 pounds, your BMI is well into the “overweight” range? (Probably all the peanut butter sandwiches… as my mom loves to remind me – peanut butter is full of fat! And bread of course is full of carbs!) When people are talking about the medical costs of overweight and obesity? They’re including you as part of the problem. No matter how “fit” you are. You might want to think about that before you lecture the rest of us.

  48. Step 1: Whole wheat sliced bread
    Step 2: Peanut Butter
    Step 3: Put it in your face.

    Repeat until you are not hungry. Get fat. Because each slice of bread has 90 calories and a tablespoon of peanut butter has about 50, so one slice of peanut butter bread has the same calories as a can of Coke, and you probably need to eat anywhere between two and four of them to stop feeling hunger, and since you think they’re healthy you believe you can *eat* more of them than you think you can eat Big Macs.

    How does cleaning your house, a physical activity that burns calories, make you fat? That literally makes no sense.

    Cleaning your house burns almost no calories. Some of it is strength-building, but none of it’s aerobic. You don’t get into the calorie burning range until you’re doing stuff that gets you out of breath. Standing around washing dishes doesn’t do that. Pushing a motorized vacuum cleaner doesn’t do that. Seriously, have you ever gone to those web sites that tell you how many calories every activity is worth? You’d have to clean your house like your grandma did, with no modern appliances and with an eye toward making the whole thing spotless every single day, to lose weight doing housework. And every minute you spend sitting on your ass folding laundry is a minute you can’t be riding a bicycle.

    Every vending machine I’ve seen has at least a granola bar or bottle water next to the Snickers and Coke.

    You’re conflating healthy and low-calorie. Most granola bars that anyone actually wants to eat are loaded with sugar, so they don’t have nearly as few calories as you think they do. Of course, they are much better *for* you than a candy bar, but not in the sense that you’ll lose weight… more in the sense that they provide more fiber in your diet and promote gastrointestinal health.

    Likewise with your peanut butter bread. Sure, that’s better for you than a Big Mac, because it has *less* fat and more fiber, but the food density is less than a Big Mac, meaning that if you ate the same weight in Big Macs and peanut butter bread, the peanut butter bread would make you less full. So you’re just likely to eat multiple slices, because hey, they’re healthy, so I can eat four of them, right? I mean, I wouldn’t be hungry if I didn’t *need* four slices. Congratulations, you just ate 600 calories while thinking you were consuming a healthy low-calorie snack.

    If your weight is low, and you’re an American, you either have a fast metabolism or a low appetite set point. (There are a number of studies that get into why Americans are fatter than everyone else, among them studies that show that humans eat more food when given larger portions even when they *think* they’re regulating intake, humans gain weight in response to environmental toxins found in plastics, and the simple fact that we have a piss-poor national public transportation system, so everyone uses their car, whereas Europeans and Japanese people walk and ride public a lot.) You’re not doing it by “choosing to eat healthy things”. You can be a lot *healthier* by choosing to eat healthy things, but still be just as fat, because fat isn’t about the quality of your calories, it’s the quantity. People can get thin eating nothing but grapefruit all day… until they die of deficiency diseases. And people can get fat eating well-balanced meals with plenty of vitamins, minerals and fiber. Weight is a really, really poor proxy for health. And metabolism and appetite set point are both largely out of the control of the individual, can be reset (almost always in the direction of getting fatter) by many, many medications, and reset in the direction of getting fatter as we age, anyway.

    For Americans, as a culture, to get thinner, we’d have to have smaller portion sizes for our food, more expensive snack food, less expensive fruit and vegetable food, better convenience options (which we *are* at least moving toward), more sidewalk space, more public transportation, more support for bicycle riding, and fewer estrogen impersonators in the water supply. (I love, BTW, how people who think they know something about this like to blame women on the Pill and our pee for something that is caused by the vast number of plastics in landfills…) Also, more free time, more support for the need for sleep, and more employer promotion of health breaks that involve mild exercise (walking around your building instead of standing around smoking, for instance). *Individuals* can do things to improve their weight picture, but unless they have a great deal of time and resources to throw at the problem, or unless they are lucky, they cannot lose weight and keep it off. They can get healthier and stronger, but they can’t get thinner without either significant luck or significant time and energy to spend on getting thinner.

  49. Wow. Somehow I missed the “backlash that glorifies obesity”, all I saw was a backlash against fat hate.

    http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2007/12/obama-on-obesit.html

    My “favourite” part of this thread is when the Fat-Earth Society cretins start impugning Lindsay Beyerstein’s feminism after she repeatedly makes clear the flaws in their arguments & calls them on the carpet for their bullying, self-aggrandizing & misleading rhetoric.

    Alara Rogers: without a doubt, you’ve made the most sense I’ve ever read in any thread related to obesity. Making any kind of positive change, especially losing weight & toning up, takes time, effort, energy, helpful information & most often money. For too many people, these resources are in abysmally short supply & the misinformation out there is equal to the level of crap foodsuffs available.

    Caveat: I don’t find these threads easy to comment on. I’ve been overweight myself for longer that all admit on a public thread, & the whole time I was there I HATED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. Not just the fact that none of my previous clothes fit anymore, that my arches fell from lugging around all that extra weight, the backaches & headaches, the low-quality sleep, etc. More than anything I couldn’t stand the feeling of being utterly powerless to lose what I’d put on. The useless information that I encountered did absolutely nothing to help, & did even more damage by sabotaging the work I put into shedding the weight I’d gained. Loose some. Gain some more. Lose some more. Gain some more. Lose a little. Gain some more. Lose some more. Rinse. Repeat.

    Thankfully my time/money situation improved & I received an invaluable piece of information re: quality of food/portion control/ type of activity from others who’d been in the same situation & were more than happy to share it. I asked them because I’d seen w/ my own eyes that they’d lost more weight than I had in less time than I’d been working on it. It’s working. I’m not back down to the shape that I was before the gain, but the difference is already making itself seen & felt. When I’m finally able to tuck my shirt into my pants, I’ll have realized a goal that I set out for myself some time ago. It’s coming, & I know because I can literally feel & see it happening. & the sleep is amazing.

  50. Look, I think the way the media is treating Sibide is disgusting (all the more so because nobody says a word about Jonah Hill whenever an Appatow movie comes out).

    Or Seth Rogen.

  51. And the healthy options for people for whom peanut products mean death? Or is that part of the plan? Remember, Robin, while you make your “helpful” suggestions, that the same people who might point their fingers, at, say, ME as part of the problem – they think you’re part of the same problem. The exact same part. They don’t think YOU’RE healthy. They don’t think YOU “eat right.” They certainly don’t think YOU work out. Or you’d be thin.

    I’ve had the opportunity, repeatedly, to put into empirical practice some of the tenets underlying Alara’s wonderful, wonderful post. I know that if I want to lose weight – and I admit that I do (despite knowing in advance that I will STILL not be happy with my body) – the ONLY way it will happen is if I put in three hours or more a day of grueling exercise – in addition to my jobs, in addition to running a house, in addition to everything else in my life. I did it, too, three, maybe four times in my life. One period lasted about ten YEARS – I was thin, I was healthy, I was a GOOD AMERICAN, cutting down on my need to use the health system, right?

    H#LL, NO. I was working out three to seven HOURS a day, seven days a week, in addition to an already-stressful, overloaded schedule. It cut down a lot of the weight that my medications (to keep me ALIVE, thanks) put on me, and I packed on muscle weight – but I was eating like cr@p, and all that exercise? I broke stuff, stuff that can’t be fixed. Many bones, lots of ligaments, and all that “working through the pain” – well, that’s not a good practice when you hear a disc go. It really isn’t. Now, I will say that I participated in high contact sports and lifted weights and danced because I wanted to, but to do it in a way that earned me a societally-approved body shape, I brutalized my body. My couch-potato ex managed to sprain his butt sitting on the couch (literally; he sprained his butt, sitting on the couch), but he’s in better physical shape, in terms of function, than I am – and he’s twenty years older.

    When people have to starve themselves to lose weight, and have to injure themselves working out, it is beyond my comprehension that thinsplainers honestly believe that doing so makes the victims HEALTHY. And yes, that’s what it takes for many people: starvation and physical effort to the point of injury. Because you can’t possibly BE healthy if you don’t LOOK healthy, and we all know what “healthy” looks like: thin. No matter how you got there. I call Bullsh*t.

    And what’s even more interesting: every time I’ve had to give up the intensive exercise, my body swings back to the same approximate weight range. Mind you, that’s with my usual sparse diet and an hour and a half on a bike four or five days a week, most weeks – which is not enough to make me thin.

  52. “Fat-Earth Society cretins”

    Would you please not do that? “Cretin” is a medical term for a person with congenital hypothyroidism and intellectual disability. It’s not ok as a generic slur.

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