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The Good, The Bad, and The Downright Ugly

Cara

The Good

President Obama.  Of course.

The Democrats now have 56 seats in the Senate. Four seats are still undecided, according to CNN, but it looks like they’re all going to go Republican.  Our best shot to pick up one last seat is Al Franken in Minnesota — who, with supposedly 100% of the vote counted, is less than 600 votes behind.

The Democrats now have 252 seats in the House, which is a 16 seat gain.  Ten seats are still undecided.

Democrats have a majority in the NY State Senate for the first time since the New Deal. Wow.  Do you mean that we might actually get some shit done?

Kay Hagan got Elizabeth Dole out of office. Gotta love that.

The South Dakota abortion ban, Measure 11, was decisively knocked down by a 10 point margin. A huge congrats to all of my friends at SD Healthy Families!

Amendment 48, the so-called Human Life Amendment, was shot down by remarkable margins, with 73% voting No.

It looks like California has shot down Prop 4, the anti-abortion parental notification initiative, with 95% of the vote in and 52% voting No.

Michigan has voted to allow stem-cell research and possession of medical marijuana.

Anti-immigrant initiative Measure 58 was shot down in Oregon.

The Bad

Amendment 2 in Florida, which bans same-sex marriage in the state, passed.

Proposition 102 in Arizona, also banning gay marriage, also passed.

Arkansas Initiative 1, which bans adoption for unmarried couples, passed. This initiative is clearly anti-gay, but it also denies adoption rights to unmarried straight couples and could affect single people as well.

Nebraska Initiative 424 passed, and bans affirmative action.

San Francisco’s Measure K was shot down. Measure K would have decriminalized prostitution in the area, and is a controversial proposal among feminists.  I believe that it would have made the jobs and lives of many sex workers much safer, and therefore I supported it and mark its defeat as a definite Bad.

The Downright Ugly

Proposition 8.

Yesterday, I really did have good feelings about Proposition 8.  I knew that out of the four initiatives that I most cared about — Amendment 48, Measure 11, Prop 8 and Prop 4 — the likelihood was that we would lose at least one.  All were horrible, but if I had to pick one to pass both in terms of predictions and hopes, my money was on Prop 4.  Prop 4 was an atrocious, harmful piece of legislation, and I’m so happy to have seen it failed.  But in all, I think it would have done the least damage.  And it seemed to be to be ambiguous enough that people might have voted Yes.  I couldn’t disagree with a Yes vote any more, but at least I understand the ignorance behind it.  I get a Yes vote on 4.

This, I do not understand.

Proposition 8 winning is downright ugly as opposed to just bad for many reasons.  For a start, it’s in California.  California is supposed to be one of our most liberal states.  It’s supposed to help set the pace for the rest of the nation.  California voting Yes on Prop 8 says horrible things about where the fight for LGBT equality is headed in this country.  And it’s much, much worse than the same-sex marriage bans in Florida and Arizona, and not only because it was less expected — but because same-sex marriage was already legal in California.

California voters didn’t just cast their ballots to deny rights to their fellow citizens.  That would have been bad enough.  California voters cast ballots to take rights away.

I don’t understand how this could have happened.  How can you vote to revoke the rights that people already have?  How could you do it in such large numbers?  How could it happen in California, of all places?  And with hindsight being twenty-twenty, I’m kicking myself.  What the hell was I doing phone-banking for Obama?  The man won by a monumental landslide.  Why didn’t I give my time to Prop 8 instead?  Why was I so wrongly comfortable?  How did we let them win?

I don’t know the answers to those questions.  And I feel physically ill looking at pictures of “Yes on 8” supporters celebrating.  HOORAY, we took away the rights of our neighbors!, they must be saying.  HOORAY, we officially got the state to recognize how morally superior our choices and biological inclinations are regarding who to fuck and who to love.  HOORAY, we’re a bunch of fucking bigots who don’t deserve the rights we would take from other people.  LOOK AT US, we’re ignorant, selfish jackasses with copious amounts of  hate in our hearts.

Please, do look at them.  Because they must tell us something about our country and ourselves.  Just as it’s important to remember that electing a Black president is not the end of racism in this country, it’s important to remember how far we have to go when a country that elects a Black president would also deny basic rights to its LGBT citizens, even in some of its most liberal pockets.

Granted, the final results still haven’t been called.  And opponents think that defeating Prop 8 is still somewhat possible. I hope they’re right.  But even if they are, the fact that this is so close is devastating, repulsive, and ought to be truly eye-opening.  It puts a profound damper on this otherwise monumental victory.

I’m sure that I’ve left some news of various initiatives and candidate wins and losses out.  Feel free to leave extra info in the comments.

cross-posted at The Curvature

54 thoughts on The Good, The Bad, and The Downright Ugly

  1. Pingback: The Good, The Bad, and The Downright Ugly : The Curvature

  2. At least some commentators are suggesting that what pushed Prop 8 over the top was African-American voters coming out to vote for Obama. I think we need more analysis to really say this, but there’s no question that there’s a lot of work to be done in the African-American community on LGBT issues.

  3. It’s Initiative 424, not 242. And I’ve already got “friends” of mine saying how GLAD they are because they, being white, are SOOOOO discriminated against by affirmative action and it gives preferential treatment to minorities, even though now, if it isn’t struck down by the Supreme Court, I’ll probably have to leave the state to find work once I’m out of college because I’m a lesbian.

  4. Democrats may still pick up the seat in Georgia – Chambliss only has 49.8% of the vote by my count. I believe that if no member gets a marjority there is a special runoff election scheduled for December 2nd. I have heard on the grapevine that many Obama organizers have already pledged to fly to Georgia to ensure a Democratic win in the runoff election.

  5. I feel your pain on Prop 8. I remember the somber mood the day after the 2004 election, when Oregon voters also voted to disallow a segment of our population to have rights to the life they and their partners built together. I still get angry when I see the faded Yes on 36 stickers on people’s cars as I drive around the state. I had hoped that California would prove to be more progressive on this issue. Here’s hoping for some good news from the absentee ballots.

  6. Also good news: Proposition 2 in Cali and Greyhound Protection Act in Mass. passed!

    However, I am equally dismayed and confused by Prop. 8. I really don’t know what to think.

  8. It pretty much carried the same counties that Prop. 22 did. It’s embarrassing to be a Californian right now for sure.

    I was upset about Prop. 5 going down so quickly and 9 winning. You’d think with the mess the prison systems (which are under federal conservatorship at the moment) would send the message that these “tough on crime including drug users” initiatives just make the problem worse.

  9. On Monday evening a friend at an intersection in Sacramento county demonstrating for the NO ON 8 was approached by a member from the pro 8 group and was told in a whisper, “If we were alone I would kill you.”

    Other pro 8 ers said at the same rally, “We want all of you (No on 8 people) to
    leave the sate, country.”

    1. No good, true Christains I know are hate-filled, and they also do not mix church and state.
    2. The most vocal/violent pro 8s are here from the Ukraine. GO BACK TO UKRAINE if you do not like it here.

  10. The most vocal/violent pro 8s are here from the Ukraine. GO BACK TO UKRAINE if you do not like it here.

    Okay, we can (and will) disagree with Yes on 8 people until we’re blue in the face, and as I showed in the post I have no opposition to calling them out for being complete and total assholes. And of course, violence is always unacceptable. But we can condemn all of that without the “America: love it or leave it,” and “if you don’t like the way we do things around here, you can just get out!” rhetoric.

    Remember that only U.S. citizens can vote, and even if you’re talking about citizens who immigrated from the Ukraine, the vast majority of those who voted Yes on Prop 8 were native born. What country voters are originally from has nothing to do with this, so I’d greatly appreciate it being left out, and anti-immigrant sentiment needs to be left at the door of this blog all together.

  11. Oh, and it seems to me that those who are being accused of “not liking it here” actually agree with the majority of Americans, sad though it may be.

  12. Marty- What an awful thing to say. What is the point of living somewhere, anywhere, if you can’t change the area you live in! I certainly don’t agree with Prop. 8 in the least, but irrational, nationalist, bigoted, anti-immigration comments don’t make sense, either.

  13. I deliberately took some time last night to be joyful about Obama’s amazing, historic win before resuming my obsessive online checking of the ballot measures I care about. I’m glad I did, because now I feel like I’m in mourning despite the gains we made last night. I’m glad I got to watch Obama’s speech and cry from happiness and hope for a better tomorrow before knowing for sure how many states hate me and don’t want me to have a family. My friends who are married in California are left in legal limbo, and I don’t feel like celebrating anything today.

    The good news is that with a Democratic majority State Senate in NY, we’re almost sure to be one of the next states to pass marriage equality, and maybe even trans-inclusive non-discrimination policies!

  14. The good news is that with a Democratic majority State Senate in NY, we’re almost sure to be one of the next states to pass marriage equality, and maybe even trans-inclusive non-discrimination policies!

    The fingers are so crossed, E. My two main things at the moment, which I think we have a real shot at, are the Healthy Teens Act (FINALLY) and GENDA. the Reproductive Health Act and Marriage Equality would be amazing, but they’re also more politically risky (and though we have a Democratic majority in the Senate, I think we’re a couple of votes shy of a pro-choice majority). So we’ll see.

  15. Pingback: Xtinian Thoughts » Blog Archive » Yaaay rollercoasters!

  16. “there’s no question that there’s a lot of work to be done in the African-American community on LGBT issues”

    There’s no question there’s a lot of work to be done in EVERY community on LGBT issues. …

  17. It’s said that people don’t even know what affirmative action is. It’s. Not. Quotas. It’s not hiring someone simply because they’re black or because they’re a woman. It’s making sure that those things don’t keep anyone from being denied a job or admission to a college.

    As for all the anti-gay props that passed, I am completely devastated. I work with foster children, and all of those kids are looking for good permanent homes. Many of the kids will be adopted by their current foster parents, but those foster parents most likely will stop being foster parents after the adoption. So there is a need for foster parents, and I think anyone who is competent to take care of a child should be able to, whether they’re gay, partnered, or single.

  18. My name is Jeff, and I’m a 19 year old gay community college student in Alameda County, California.

    As a former Catholic budding into a staunch agnostic, I had a hard time replacing God as an emotional and spiritual crutch in my life. As time went on, I found myself placing my faith, instead of into a God who I could no longer bring myself to believe in, into the essential goodness of my fellow humans. With that faith, I’ve tried not to judge, I’ve tried not to push my beliefs on others, I’ve found myself believing that deep inside, we truly are all essentially the same, and that the world would be a better place if we only sought understanding.

    With Prop 8 passing, my faith has been shaken. It’s not easy to have faith in your fellow human beings when faced with the terrifying reality that they approved of something so clearly and flatly wrong. California, and America, have always been my home. An essentially good place, that I loved. The roots of my country, the true core principles that our founding fathers set down- I love this country, and, in the face of any of its missteps, I always thought, y’know… we’re bigger than that. What’s truly American will win out in the end.

    But the entirety of Prop 8 has been such a massive step backwards. When I realized, with dreadful finality, that it had essentially won, I couldn’t handle it. I started shaking, and I got a splitting headache, and I threw up.

    I laid on the bathroom floor for what I later found out was almost an hour, just bawling. Crying and crying and… never in my life have I felt so betrayed and helpless.

    I don’t even want to get married.
    That’s not the issue.

    My home has put one of my freedoms to a vote, and have chosen to strip me of a right, and there’s no legitimate reason except that I’m a minority.

    Point for point:
    – If gay marriage were to cause any noticeable change in straight marriage or society at large, it would have happened. 14,000 couples have been married in the six months since California legalized it, and nothing bad has happened. Society has not collapsed, fire and brimstone are not raining from the sky. 14,000 couples shared the happiest days of their lives. That’s all.

    – Churches would not be forced to ordain gay weddings. Again, it’s been six months. This hasn’t happened, and it would never happen, because the very same constitution that, according to the Supreme Court, protects (or, now, “protected”) the rights of homosexuals to marry explicitly forbids the government from interfering with religions. Which brings me to my next point.

    – Passing Prop 8 has removed rights from several religions, including Reform Judaism and Unitarian Universalists. While voting Prop 8 out would not force churches who refuse to marry gays to do so, passing it has forced churches who choose to marry gays to cease doing so. By providing millions of dollars in out of state funding, religious groups like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and The Knights of Columbus have effectively forced their beliefs about marriage onto less wealthy progressive religions.

    – California Law explicitly forbids schools from teaching things to children that their parents don’t approve of. Kids would not be taught about gay marriage. The idea that it would was an underhanded, calculated, bold-faced lie. Basic cultural psychology; if you want to manufacture fear and hatred of a group of people, pretend they’re a threat to the most vulnerable members of your society: children. This is the same reason they pretend gay people are more likely to be child molesters, and keep us from teaching school in Texas: We’re a misunderstood minority, and it’s the easiest way to make people hate us. Campaigners for Prop 8 have actually publicly addressed this tactic as being instrumental in their success. The California Superintendent of Schools actually went on TV and explicitly said Prop 8 will have no effect on schools. But what can you do in the face of fear mongering?

    – Civil Unions are NOT the same as marriages, even in California. People who voted to overturn gay marriage because they believe this were lied to. In 2004, The United States General Accounting Office identified a total of 1,138 rights and privileges exclusive to married couples due to the Federal Defense of Marriage Act, which, amongst other things, deliberately undercuts the full faith & credit cause of the U.S. Constitution to allow states to refuse to recognize gay marriages conducted in other states.

    – Of the 14,000+ gay married couples in California, many of them have adopted children. These families are now second class citizens. They can lose the aforementioned 1000+ rights, and THOSE families are the only ones who could be hurt by Prop 8 one way or another. To claim that Prop 8 protects families would be laughable if it weren’t so sick and hurtful.

    – The “4 activist judges” who “went against the will of the people” were Supreme Court justices who overturned an unconstitutional law. That’s what the Supreme Court is supposed to do. California is not a democracy; it’s a constitutional republic with a system of checks and balances, just like the United States. The Supreme Court exists because our Founding Fathers knew the dangers of the tyranny of the majority. A simple majority, as has been proven time and time again, can force its will on an oppressed minority. To ensure the rights of such minorities, the Supreme Court exists to compare laws to the founding document of our nation/state, which guarantees us certain natural, inalienable rights, and if they contradict, to throw them out. That’s all that happened. In this case, the tyrannical majority, not satisfied with the system working as it’s supposed to, moved to undermine the system. Knowing that the California constitution required only a simple majority vote to amend, they bypassed the checks and balances system and moved to modify the founding document of this state itself to their own ends. Through deception and subterfuge, not least amongst them everything I’ve mentioned thus far, they tricked Californian voters into passing it, and for the first time in United States history, a sate has amended its constitution to take away rights already granted to an oppressed minority. Schwarzenegger, Feinstein, Obama, and Jack O’Connel saw this, and that’s why they opposed it. They were ignored, their voices were buried under the $35+ million in fear and hate mongering.

    So, why?
    Why do this?
    What diseased machination of human processes led us here?
    If the people behind Prop 8 truly thought they were doing the right thing, why the deception? Why all the lies? I can only think that they knew, somebody, some of them, way at the top, knew, absolutely, that they were merely oppressing us, and merely because they can. And it’s horrible, but what else am I supposed to think? You can see it in their smirking faces as they snidely insinuate that anything the No on 8 campaign does after the election would be “against the will of the people.” I can almost feel them wanted to burst out screaming, “Get back in your place, faggots! We beat you!”

    Even under the warm approach of the Obama presidency, and the hope and good will it brings, I’m in tears. I never, up till this point, really thought I could become physically ill over… anything not physical. But here I am, dry heaving, pounding headache, hyperventilating… It feels like a step beyond having my heart broken. It’s like somebody spat in the face of my soul and it’s all I can do to fall down and cry about it.

    Sorry to stink up your blog with my rambling, I just… I just don’t understand. I’ve never felt so bad in my whole entire life.
    I heard a Mormon family back east donated 50 thousand dollars of their own money to Yes on 8. To hurt me. To hurt me, and… what? Millions of other gay people. To hurt us, whether they believe that’s why they did it or not, the simple fact was that the only reason to vote for prop 8 was to strip us of rights. And they don’t even live here.

    I’m… I’m in a real bad way. I just needed to vent.
    Again, sorry.
    Glad there are good people who could see through the bullshit out there.

  19. Yeah, I wonder about the marriages b/c quite a few people got married in October b/c the poll numbers started looking bad.

    Greyhound Protection Act

    It’s interesting b/c when I first read this, I thought of the bus transit company b/c my city government has kicked Greyhound out labeling all its 85,000 a year passengers criminals and parolees ruining the downtown. When according to the survey taken, the majority are poorer families, military personnel, seniors and/or disabled individuals. But the people who have power can take people who rely on a service to see their loved ones and use that power to define it the way they see fit so that’s all that’s seen. Even if it’s not reality.

    And with Prop. 8, it seemed like the people who had the power and the money (including many people from out of state), could define gay and lesbian marriages to be a lot of things that they’re not. They could lie about churches losing funding and use their own children as “victims” of same-sex marriage being taught in the schools to persuade voters to pass it for these nonexistent reasons rather than the truth. There just wasn’t enough of that same message getting out on the No side. Maybe some areas of the state but in the areas where they needed to shift the vote, I don’t think as much.

  20. Back in mid September, when the presidential race was too close for comfort and prop 8 looked like it was sailing towards defeat, I maxed out my donation abilities giving to the Obama campaign and local Ohio democrats. During the last week I’ve been kicking myself.

    If more money had gone to No-on-8 earlier it might have made a big difference.

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  23. I wish the No on 8 campaign — which includes me, as a donor and volunteer — had done more to reach out to communities of color. We knew they would turn out for Obama, but apparently we didn’t connect the dots and realize that this sometimes socially conservative demographic would turn out for 8, too. We didn’t do enough to counter Yes on 8’s lies about supposed threats to religious freedom and supposed moral instruction in schools. We ran a good, clean campaign — we just couldn’t run it hard enough to undo the shameful deception on the other side. Which was coming overwhelmingly from whites, before anyone starts pointing fingers.

  24. i was really excited about the dem majority in the NY state senate. my state senator is republican and won again and all my relatives voted for him so at least i can rub in the fact that the state senate went dem! Also he used to be the majority leader and isn’t anymore!

    i’m really sad about prop 8 though, the la times web site has an article up with a picture of a bunch of people celebrating it and a quote from Flint talking about how he changed californians mind and it just made me wanna puke…

  25. The really big winners in this are local political networks in states like Indiana, North Carolina, Georgia and Nevada. After 2000 and 2004, there was a heck of a lot of chatter about how liberals in the Democratic party should circle the wagons and stick to building the base within their coastal strongholds. By activating local political networks in “unwinnable” states, Obama raised huge sums of money for his campaign, turned battle-ground states into safe states, turned states that were assumed to be safe for Republicans into battlegrounds, increased congressional majorities in the house and senate, and put McCain into an unwinnable situation weeks before the election.

    These election results show that it’s possible for the Democrats to be a viable national party again.

  26. Really really glad about a lot of things this morning, but so sad about 8… As a new California voter (moved here at the end of last year), I was so pleased with my new state until today. How can so many of my fellow Californians have voted to deny rights to their neighbors? As my boyfriend said, the people of this state “woke up this morning with more hope, but fewer rights”

  27. At least some commentators are suggesting that what pushed Prop 8 over the top was African-American voters coming out to vote for Obama. I think we need more analysis to really say this, but there’s no question that there’s a lot of work to be done in the African-American community on LGBT issues.

    Erik, let’s not blame the black people. It’s not like we’re the majority population in California. Even if all 2.1 million of us voted for Prop 8–which did not happen–that wouldn’t have been enough to pass it.

    There’s no question there’s a lot of work to be done in EVERY community on LGBT issues. …

    What steph said.

  28. Jeff, thanks for your eloquent “ramble.” You articulate your pain very well. And I am heartsick too. You and I are young enough that we will see more of these disturbing defeats on the slow road to victory. I remind myself that prior generations with hope just beginning to blossom were devastated by such defeats too, including political assassinations, but that change did come, slowly. So grieve and vent and rage, yes, but don’t lose hope. It’ll come, you and I know it to be true.

  29. Maybe if No On 8 had reached out to campuses sooner, or hired a campaign manager earlier, or reached out beyond the usual HRC folks better, we wouldn’t be here. I’m happy to blame the Yes on 8 campaign for lying and cheating, and to critique the approach of the campaign. But I think it’s really misguided to blame the results on high turnout of black voters and lay institutionalized homophobia at their door.

    Let’s not forget that the Mormon and Catholic churches placed their institutional weight behind this proposition. Let’s also not forget that the Yes on 8 campaign sent out flyers claiming that Obama supported Prop 8, which of course he didn’t. But he did say he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that soundbite was used in robocalls. So there’s plenty of blame to be spread around before we come to deciding it’s due to homophobic black communities, or deciding that the work that needs to be done that is most worth mention is the homophobia in the black community.

    When I was volunteering for No on 8 I got plenty of support from working class folks and people of color, and plenty of outright hostility from white voters, some of whom were for Obama.

  30. California voting Yes on Prop 8 says horrible things about where the fight for LGBT equality is headed in this country.

    I am upset about Prop 8 too, and while its defeat says something about where LBGT rights currently stand in this country, I don’t think it says that much about where the debate is heading. In fact, Kevin Drum correctly predicted that Prop 8 would fail six months ago (he predicted the margin as well), and argues cogently that the demographics have been getting more favorable, not less. In a few more years something like Prop 8 should fail easily. Not that that’s any comfort today, but I do think that the trends are favorable for where the debate is heading.

  31. I really wish there were more hope right now for the defeat of Prop 8. I’m incredibly disappointed at how things look for it right now.

    The whole “think of the children” type arguments for it just drove me nuts. Not to mention their insistence that their churches would be forced to perform gay marriages. It’s the lies that made so many people vote for this.

    If this does indeed pass, I really hope to see something next election try to create an amendment to overrule the Prop 8 amendment. Or a Supreme Court decision against it in a few years.

    I just don’t want my fellow Californians to give up on fighting for equal rights for everyone.

  32. Jeff — A beautiful comment; heartfelt, tragic, right on. I live in the bay area too, and I too am heartsick.

    Ok, so after taking some time to mourn, I started looking for the upside. Not the upside of Prop 8 passing — there is no upside to that — but reasons to remain hopeful for the fate of equality. Here’s what I came up with:

    1) In 2000, California passed Prop 22 (the anti-gay-marriage law overturned a few months ago) by a margin of 24%. Huge. Just 8 years later, the spread between the bigots and the rest of us shrank to only 4%.

    2) Old people overwhelmingly supported Prop 8 and young people overwhelmingly opposed it. When you look at the numbers, it’s a much stronger demographic split than any of the racial groups mentioned in other comments above. And this particular demographic split really only moves in one direction.

    3) While I’ve been saying throughout this election how dispicable it is that we need 2/3 majority to pass a school bond but we only need a simple majority to change our friggin charter document, the Constitution, this could come in handy for us now. In 4 years or 8 years (both, if necessary), when there truly is a majority of Californians who believe in equality, once we’ve had a chance to regroup and strategize based on the results this time around, we will only need a simple majority to nix this new, ugly new definition of marriage. A la the prohibition ammendment: first, they passed it saying alcohol is illegal, then when they figured out how stupid that was, they passed another ammendment saying that first ammendment is no longer valid. 50.1% is all we need, and per points 1 and 2 on this list, I think if we refuse to let up, we will have it.

    Ok, that’s all I got, but after the mourning is done (denial, acceptance, bargaining, etc…), the worst thing we can do is to assume that it’s now out of our hands. It’s not, and we need to continue the fight for equality.

  33. The Prop 8 outcome really saddens me.

    And I would be lying if I said I did not find a sick irony in greyhound rights ranking above sex workers rights. The defeat of Prop K is a huge kick in the teeth to sex workers in and out of SF.

  34. Great run-down of all the big victories and losses, Cara. I have to say that I was not even thinking about the ballot iniatives last night, which was probably good. I was counting losses (one being that a pro-choice, pro-queer rights state senator that I was really campaigning hard for lost to the republican incumbent) but mostly celebrating Obama and the new majority in the NYS Senate. I do worry that only 4 of the NYS Senate dems are from upstate NY…and we didn’t win new seats for the dems upstate. So NYC and Long Island will really have control of the Senate majority. Anyway…

    My heart is aching for all the married couples in CA who were told today that their lives and love are inferior at best and criminal at worst. This morning, I woke up and went immediatley to the computer to check on the ballot initiatives. And was just devastated. I ended up crawling back into bed with my partner.

    I’ve never been interested in marriage for myself and actually oppose it as a gov’t institution, but if marriage equality passes in NYS, I would consider it. Marriage, in this context, is a civil rights issue and though political motivation and economic stability might not be the best reason for getting hitched, I just might.

    It’s certainly a bittersweet day as we celebrate our great opportunities and successful pro-choice wins. Concurrently, I am saddened by the gay marriage bans and am deeply mourning Prop H8te and the Nebraska anti-affirmative action initiative, especially.

    Cara – I do think marriage equality will pass in NYS before 2010. The Empire State Pride Agenda will probably make it the top priority. I think you are right about your other predictions. Healthy Teens will pass. The Reproductive Health Act will take a long time to pass, even with a party majority because, as you said, we still don’t have a pro-choice majority in NYS.

  35. Cara – I do think marriage equality will pass in NYS before 2010.

    I so hope that you’re right! I definitely agree that the Empire State Pride Agenda will make it a priority — the question is whether or not the new majority will think it too risky to pass in their first term. I hope they’ll be courageous and do what is so obviously the right thing.

  36. check this out,

    I am minister in San Antonio, TX. I am a Bible Believing Christian. This means that I disagree with the gay lifestyle. I believe that The Bible is a guide to living the way God ordained. BUT: I love gay people. I can’t say that there is a single person I hate. I can’t see hate in my heart. Being a Christian I believe that we, everybody on earth, are brothers and sisters in the eyes of God. Anyone who claims to be a Christian and has hate in thier heart for people because they disagree is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is not what it means to be a Christian. Like a family, you are to love your brother. Just because you have a disagreement doesn’t mean you stop loving eachother. You are family. Am I right? Likewise, as children of God we are meant to only love eachother and not hate. You don’t have to like eachother. Thts another story. haha BUT: love and not hate is what it means to be a Christian.

    I just had to put that out there. Christians get a bad rap most of the time. Real Christians don’t hate and deny people equality and rights to live.

  37. I’m no longer a New Yorker, but I am pleased to hear about the Dem victory in NY. I would also like to point out to the Californian married couples whose marriages have just been invalidated by cruel bigotry that New York won’t currently marry same-sex couples, but it *will* recognize same-sex marriages performed in another state. Since Prop 8 does not invalidate CA marriages, it merely says that CA will no longer perform or recognize them, you should be able to get New York to recognize you as a married couple, should you choose to move somewhere that you can be acknowledged.

    I’m so sorry about Prop 8. I really had high hopes for it. It doesn’t personally affect me — I’m bi, but married to a man already, and my gay Californian brother wasn’t actually planning on getting married ever. But it makes the world I live in a poorer, darker place that even in the midst of a historic victory against bigotry, the forces of bigotry did manage to eke out a victory of their own.

    I can only hope that the tide continues to move forward in other liberal states. I hope the fight for gay marriage comes directly to Maryland because I have friends who could seriously use the right to get married. And I believe that in ten years or less, this horrible law will be overturned… which is not much of a consolation to those who have been forcibly un-married overnight, I know, but it’s something.

  38. Prop 8 was a huge personal blow for me, as a lesbian in a three year committed relationship who desperately sought the right to marry. It’s hard not take it personal for me when I see the signs, stickers, and the like. I stop all the time and think. This person is denying me the right to marry the woman I love, the woman I will spend the rest of my life with. It is even harder when the signs and stickers are put up by people I know, and hardest of all when they are displayed by my immediate family, who voted Yes on Prop 8.

    Will I ever have the chance to marry again?

  39. Pingback: Godless Liberal » Blog Archive » » Congratulations, USA!

  40. LATimes has white support of prop 8 at about 46% and black support at 70%. Hispanic support was high but not as high as black support. So i think its fair to say that it was in fact the African american vote that caused it to pass in the same night we elected the nationa’s first black president.

  41. No, Obamacan, the African American vote did not cause it to pass. It helped it to pass, just like each and every vote did. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that even with the higher percentage of black voters voted Yes, more white voters still voted for the initiative. So why the hell aren’t we blaming them? This is such a stupid way to look at the vote. If all of those black voters hadn’t voted Yes, would Prop 8 have been shot down? Of course. And it’s the same if all of those white voters and Hispanic voters hadn’t voted for Prop 8. No one bloc is responsible.

  42. Exactly, Cara. Trying to blame the passage of Prop 8 on any one demographic is just passing the blame. Everyone’s vote counts in this state; it’s a question of demonstrating to all voters that this is a civil rights issue, that gay marriage is not going to ruin your traditional marriage, that even if kids see their teacher get married, it’s not going to “turn them gay”. The Yes on 8 campaign managed to raise a bunch of money, much of it from out of state, to spread their lies and half-truths. They managed to energize their voters in more conservative areas of the state. But we lost this fight be a narrower margin this year than in 2000; I hold great hope that court battles will be won, and changing generations will push the movement over the edge, and soon. If the anti-abortion people can put their initiative on the ballot seemingly every other year, we can too.

    And next time, I hope the No on 8 folks bring out some of their more powerful ads sooner. The one I found most moving was the one that compared Prop 8 to historic racist decisions. But I only saw that ad once, about a week before the election. With a combination of pushing the “gay marriage is a civil rights issue too” and trying to win over more indecisive voters with endorsements from people like Gov. Schwarzenegger, I feel this could succeed if given another chance.

  43. “San Francisco’s Measure K was shot down. Measure K would have decriminalized prostitution in the area, and is a controversial proposal among feminists. I believe that it would have made the jobs and lives of many sex workers much safer, and therefore I supported it and mark its defeat as a definite Bad.”

    You are wrong. It’s very good. No safe haven for trafficking in San Fran! Woot!! My faith in (some) of my fellow progressives has been restored.

    Also prop 3 in MA passed. As did prop 2 in California. Both, very good! I worked on Question 3 eight years ago and that time it failed. This time I held my breath.

    I hope the rest of the states will follow suit and get rid of the odious practice of dog racing. The dogs are kept in crates all day long. They are hit with electric prods if they tire and sit down. They are murdered (and not in a humane way) or sold to even worse tracks when they don’t perform. This is a hideously abusive industry that needs to go.

    The same sex marriage amendments sadden me. All of the anti-marriage amendments seem to have passed. Being from a state where we have same sex marriage, I just don’t understand. Really people, they don’t change your marital status. They are no threat! Hell, you don’t even need to know about it! We’ve had it here for 4 years and no straight person has been affected in any way. I don’t get the fear, but it’s obviously there. What are people afraid of??

  45. You are wrong. It’s very good. No safe haven for trafficking in San Fran! Woot!! My faith in (some) of my fellow progressives has been restored.

    You’re wrong if you think that decriminalizing prostitution and giving sex workers the ability to go to the police if they’ve been raped or beaten would somehow create a “safe haven” for trafficking. Trafficking would still be illegal; and if K had passed, it would mean that those who are trafficked wouldn’t be at such risk of being prosecuted themselves for repeated rape. When you prosecute sex workers, there is no way, no how that you can avoid prosecuting those who are doing the work unwillingly (though I in no way think that those who are doing it willingly should be prosecuted). I was totally not in the mood to get into this argument today, but here we are and I’m already in a royally shitty state of mind. So if you want to talk about faith in fellow progressives, the results of K are certainly something that has challenged mine.

  46. Pingback: Election Day in Links « The Redstar Perspective

  47. I do not understand why this should be something the general population, most of whom are straight and have been taught homophobia in our society and in their churches, is allowed to vote on. It’s sort of like asking Nazi Germany to vote on rights for Jews. If there was a vote in the southern states in the 1860s to free the slaves or not, we’ld still have slavery.

  48. I cried when I heard about Prop 8 passing. And Prop K not passing – I was really hopeful about that one, too.

    And you’re absolutely right about K, Cara. Like I said, I’ve really lost a lot of faith in my fellow “progressives”. Because a lot of them voted for 8. And almost none of them seem to support decrim.

  49. I, too, was disappointed that K failed. But, unlike with 8, I wasn’t surprised, and I am less disappointed in my fellow San Franciscans than I am in my fellow Californians. Also, at least its failure didn’t take away existing rights, which is what really wounds me about 8.
    Talking to folks here and around the country about these issues in the days before the elections, I quickly realized that there was a lot of confusion on K. Otherwise progressive voting guides failed to have a position on it, citing, among other things, confusion. As noted in the original post, decriminalization remains controversial among feminists/progressives. Some were concerned about K’s wording and specificity (especially in earlier drafts, but it carried over).
    All of this, I believe, is largely a failure of education. We need to do better as feminists to understand and explain to one another what approaches are available to us as we seek to protect the rights of women and men through effective policies. K was a brave first step towards getting the right issues debated, and at least it got them on the agenda. Now, we need to make sure that its failure does not mean that they fall off of that agenda.

  50. “I am minister in San Antonio, TX. I am a Bible Believing Christian. This means that I disagree with the gay lifestyle. I believe that The Bible is a guide to living the way God ordained. BUT: I love gay people. I can’t say that there is a single person I hate. I can’t see hate in my heart. Being a Christian I believe that we, everybody on earth, are brothers and sisters in the eyes of God. Anyone who claims to be a Christian and has hate in thier heart for people because they disagree is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is not what it means to be a Christian. Like a family, you are to love your brother. Just because you have a disagreement doesn’t mean you stop loving eachother. You are family. Am I right? Likewise, as children of God we are meant to only love eachother and not hate. You don’t have to like eachother. Thts another story. haha BUT: love and not hate is what it means to be a Christian. ”

    m.f. one: So, out of all this hate, homophobia, and bigotry you want the queers to be nice to *you*? You want us to remember that we are “family”? That we’re obligated to love you even when you write shit like “haha! I’m not a hater, I just don’t like you, but I need you to ignore that, haha!, ’cause I’m like family and you don’t get a choice here, because if you don’t “love” me then not only are you an icky perverted “lifestyle”, but you’re an ungrateful, sinful bad child”.

    Nice. Go fuck yourself *and* the donkey your godhead rode in on.

  51. There were two recent events that really worked against the “No on 8” forces.

    1. The somewhat arrogant crowing of Gavin Newsome in his “Like it or not” outburst really irritated a lot of “on the fence” voters.
    2. The lesbians who were later married by him just before the election and inexplicably invited a first grade class to the event, calling it a “teaching moment”, created so much apprehension among the right that they mobilized for Prop. 8 even more.
    No, I am not a religious zealot, in fact I am agnostic. However “Discretion is the better part of valor”…..(and politics.) I think the anti-8 forces may have “shot themselves in the foot”.
    I am not arguing for the Prop., just trying to analyze the results.

  52. “if K had passed, it would mean that those who are trafficked wouldn’t be at such risk of being prosecuted themselves for repeated rape.”

    Your belief in Prop K’s goodness relies on the assumption that most prostitutes* are more afraid of police than they are afraid of the pimps 90% of US prostitutes have. That assumption is wrong.

    Also, 85% of rapes aren’t reported to police and it is not because rape victims fear arrest. If you understood, really understood, what the majority of prostitutes say about sexual violence and prostitution then you wouldn’t suggest that the mere ability to report rape would address the problem any more than the mere ability of any woman to report rape addresses the problem. It doesn’t.

    To see the rapes of prostitutes the same way you see the rapes of other women means you can’t rely on self-reporting by victims of the least reported, least convicted violent crime as a workable solution to reducing that violent crime. We do not place the burden for stopping rapists on their victims, so why place the burden for stopping rape on rapists’ victims who prostitute?

    The way the legal system handles rapes of any person needs major fixing, but if you stop all efforts at rape prevention in prostitution (which Prop K tried to do) then you are allowing an increase in the number of men who feel entitled to prostituted bodies by shutting down the First Offenders Program and refusing to let police investigate situations before more rapes can happen. Prop K only works for a small number of non-pimped prostituting women and it only extends its invitation to the kangaroo court of a rape trial after the damage has been done.

    *It is factually inaccurate to use “sex workers” because sex work isn’t illegal in San Francisco and prostitution is.

  53. Pingback: Prop. 8 is pure hate « Fagabond

  54. The Good: thankfully Prop 4 did not pass. The Bad: the margin was too close for comfort. please see and share my video post on You Tube of an interview with my 90 year old grandmother about choice and rape when she was 16 (in 1925) in Arkansas, go to “choice 2000” on You Tube. We have to remember these old stories and use them to educate our daughters.

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