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35 thoughts on Too Close to “Boy” For My Taste

  2. Between this and the way McCain refused to look at Obama during the first debate, I don’t understand what he’s trying to accomplish. It just makes McCain look like a racist asshole.

  3. it made me sick especially coupled with him blaming the little people for the economic downturn because we dared to reach for the “american dream” through fannie mae and freddie mac. sh*t

  4. I give it a pass. He referred to himself as “This one.” I think it is a complete overreaction and overreaching to say that that comment had racist overtones.

  5. Whether it’s racist or not, we’ll never really know. After 439 years of oppression, it’s kind of hard to pick and choose what people feel as a racist attack, or otherwise. Every time a woman hides her purse from me in the elevator, I don’t know what to feel.

    That “that one” remark could be simply an indicator of a limited vocabulary, if you don’t want to call it racist. Damn good thing I wasn’t in Sen. Obama’s position last night, I would have been looking left and right and behind me to figure out who Sen. McCain was talking about, because surely his mama didn’t name him “that one.” After all that’s said and done, this man, is no maverick, he’s disrespectful and doesn’t know diddly about sportsmanship. Awful, just awful. Oh that made me so angry last night, and again this morning when I see the hundreds of posts all over about the remark.

    Sure some people don’t see it as “Racist” but how would you really know? After all, he did tell an Af. American man in the audience last night, “I bet you never even heard of Fannie and Freddie” before this. Right, because we just received the right to learn to read and write, and before then, we were living in a bubble. Another indicator of the limited vocabulary. Right, that’s what I want as representative leadership, “that one.”

  7. In defending his former high school’s use of the Confederate flag/rebel mascot, one of my white male students claimed that even the black kids at the school thought protests were stupid and overreactions. Immediately, my black students shut down–he set the tone so that any complaint by them would fall into the “whiny”/”oversensitive” category.

    My point? Saying

    I think it is a complete overreaction and overreaching to say that that comment had racist overtones

    has potentially the same effect, Steven. You are definitely entitled to your perception/opinion, but your statement is dismissive of others’.

  8. I’m not saying this was a smart thing for him to say, but I do think he was just trying to sound jokingly dismissive rather than actually snapping and dismissing Obama in what would be a revealing moment. My friends and I will call each other “this one”/”that one” while in a group, and it’s just a joke, along the lines of “loser.” In context that’s what this sounded like to me.

    Again, this isn’t to say there’s no racial problem with an old white politician jokingly dismissing his young black opponent’s views, and it was especially wrongheaded of him to try it now considering that he spent the entire first debate talking sincerely about how naive and unprepared Obama is, and the-lack-of-eye-contact problem, etc. But I don’t think this was a case of latent racism cracking the veneer and causing him to blurt out something that revealed his deep-down lack of respect for Obama; I think he was deliberately trying to “tease” him and didn’t get why that would be a bad idea. He was going for a fraternal/affectionate thing, which needless to say didn’t come off.

  9. “My friends and I will call each other “this one”/”that one” while in a group, and it’s just a joke, along the lines of “loser.” In context that’s what this sounded like to me.”

    Uh. This was a presidential debate, not a drinking party.

  10. Do I need to reiterate two or three more times that I do not think this was a smart or appropriate thing to say?

  11. I think racism has become so common place to the average white american that to actually view it objectively is impossible. Underlying stereotypes reinforced by mainstream media and then adopted by the suburbian, even semi-urban white culture is the true culprit. I conducted a study of 300 white students who all ascribed to be tolerant and non-biased against any race. However, the answers that the students gave to relatively benign questions like, “Are black men more violent than white men?” and even more subliminal responses to questions like, “Would you cross the street to avoid a black man, after dark?” Even as some of us read this, you have to look internally. I listened to a radio interview on NPR (National Public Radio) There was a mother who just adopted an African-American infant. Her problem, She was afraid that she would fear the child when he became an adult. Guess what, she was white. Racism has been instilled in the average white person from birth. It is not a reason for blame. However, left unchecked, It becomes the foundation for institutional racism. Which basically says, “I have nothing against them, I just don’t want to work with, live near, employee, work for, or properly educate….one of them”.

  13. What worries me is the level of disdain McCain had for Obama last night.

    Dude, this is a presidential race — if you make it, you’re going to have to sit around a table with adversaries that are heads of state and control your damned self. Put a lid on it, ass.

  14. Hugely inappropriate, McCain.

    Sen. McCain can hide behind ‘I was joking’ all he wants when it comes to ‘that one’ or ‘bomb Iran’ – yet, you’d think he’d eventually learn some decorum. Whether his disrespect towards Obama was founded in racism (and I wouldn’t be surprised) or something else, ‘that one’ is yet another example of how McCain adopts a flippant and aggressive attitude when dealing with adversaries.

  15. Racist or not, it was at the very least incredibly disrespectful. Maybe it’s his race, maybe disdain for his politics, or even his relative youth. It’s probably a combination of all of those factors. Regardless, Obama is a senator, and deserving of McCain’s respect. Would he have treated Ted Kennedy in the same dismissive manner? Joe Biden even? Maybe. But I doubt it.

  16. I could give him a pass on the “that one” thing, but…

    “After all, he did tell an Af. American man in the audience last night, “I bet you never even heard of Fannie and Freddie” before this.”

    The contempt shown for that dude was very disturbing, and it’s hard not to lay any of McCain’s behavior on the demographic membership of the questioner.

  19. I think it’s fair to say ‘that one’ and the fanny/freddie comment were disrespectful and not smart.

    OTOH, *I* didn’t know what fanny and freddie were before this.

    Since the guy’s question was along the lines of ‘how does this help me exactly?’, McCain may have assumed didn’t have a stake in the real estate market.

    That said, it would still have been helpful for him to give a real answer to the question. Obama did a nice job of both countering McCain’s non-answer and actually answering the question.

  20. at the very best it was disrespectful and at the very least dehumanizing. i honestly don’t understand how a white person can treat a POC in a dehumanizing manner and have it NOT be racist. maybe not consciously so, but there it is.

  21. My reaction to it during (and immediately after) the debate was that, in context it played as disrespectful, but in repetition would play far worse. “That one” sounds a little too close to “that word” repeated in 5 second clips all over the talking head shows, blogs, and youtube.

  22. My heart actually stopped when McCain said “that one.” I thought that was the height of disrespect.

    Was it racist? That depends on one of two things. What was McCain’s intent? Did he say it because he thinks Obama does not deserve his respect because he is Black? McCain already believes that Junior Senators are beneath him. Secondly, and more importantly, how did Obama perceive the comment? There has been a long history of calling African Americans names that are designed to remind them that they are worth less than Whites. If Barack Obama has experienced racism like this before, then it doesn’t really matter what McCain’s intentions were. Being called “that one” could bring back memories of when people who were more overt in their racism called him denigrating names. The same reasoning can be used when analyzing McCain never looking at Obama. With this and the “that one” comment, it’s clear that McCain has no respect for Obama. It’s not so clear if it’s because of Obama’s race.

    I have to look at the video when McCain said the “you probably haven’t heard of Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae until now” thing. I was listening to that part on the radio and obviously didn’t know the questioner’s race or whether McCain was looking at the questioner when he said it. If someone can link to the video, that’d be great. Otherwise, I’ll try to find it.

  23. I was only half-listening at the “probably haven’t heard of” comment, but I thought he was directing it to “most Americans”, rather than the questioner. And I’m not sure if that’s better.

  24. ThickRedGlasses- Not only is it impossible to ever determine someone’s “intent,” talking about intent is absolutely inconsequential to talking about whether or not something was racist. When someone does/says something to me that’s racist, it makes absolutely no difference whether or not they MEANT for it to be racist. Don’t mean to rag on you or anything, but I think it’s important for this conversation to realize “intent” is pretty much a non-factor.

    A great vlogger Jay Smooth breaks it down way better than I ever could: http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html

  25. no, I think its a little too close to boy as well. i think mccain means boy.
    latent racism runs rampant throughout this country. its almost worse because people can say they are not racist and then make false statements about one’s character. I have been doing some canvassing and phone calls for the campaign and I can say that some people I have called come right out and share overt racist statements in relation to Obama.

  26. An interesting way to think about this is to imagine how it would sound if McCain referred to Biden, or Kerry, or Hagel, as “that one”.

    Honestly, I can’t imagine that happening. The idea that McCain would have use the “that one” line against Biden doesn’t square with me. It doesn’t compute. That may be why it computes as racist to me.

    Taking it a step further, it’s almost unthinkable that he would refer to Senator Clinton or Governor McCaskill as “that one”. That would (rightfully) ignite a shit-storm the likes of which presidential politics has never seen.

    Although I think the question of whether Obama took it as racist is more or less moot. I think he took it as something his opponent said and doesn’t matter a damn to him. Barack Obama wouldn’t be where he is today if he hadn’t developed an immunity to race-baiting.

  27. Regardless of whether or not it was racist (ftr, I think it was close enough), it was immensely disrespectful and dismissive.

  29. Honestly, I can’t imagine that happening. The idea that McCain would have use the “that one” line against Biden doesn’t square with me. It doesn’t compute. That may be why it computes as racist to me.

    Taking it a step further, it’s almost unthinkable that he would refer to Senator Clinton or Governor McCaskill as “that one”. That would (rightfully) ignite a shit-storm the likes of which presidential politics has never seen.

    I really have to agree with this. Imagining McCain using “that one” against Biden or Hagel is a really stark difference. Of course Biden and Hagel are, for obvious reasons, not constrained by the potential “angry black man” stereotype and could afford to rip his face off in return.

    Biden was asked about this moment by Ann Curry on the Today show. He downplayed its racial significance, and instead turned the moment into a more subtly devastating and wide-ranging assessment of McCain’s character: Biden claimed “Oh, John always gets like that when he’s on the attack and doesn’t really like what he’s doing. He never says it to your face when he’s angry, he turns and grumps at the next person.”

    Translation: McCain has always been a pissy little jerk when he’s losing, not just to black people, and that’s what you can expect for the next four years if he wins.

  30. but I think it’s important for this conversation to realize “intent” is pretty much a non-factor.
    I thought I posted this last night but maybe I closed by browser before I hit submit.

    I personally don’t dismiss intent when it comes to remarks like that. It’s not the sole factor in how I react to something but I think its worth considering. I’m still not sure if McCain’s intent was racist but there is no doubt his intent was arrogant.

  31. ThickRedGlasses- Not only is it impossible to ever determine someone’s “intent,” talking about intent is absolutely inconsequential to talking about whether or not something was racist. When someone does/says something to me that’s racist, it makes absolutely no difference whether or not they MEANT for it to be racist. Don’t mean to rag on you or anything, but I think it’s important for this conversation to realize “intent” is pretty much a non-factor.

    Which is why I said, “There has been a long history of calling African Americans names that are designed to remind them that they are worth less than Whites. If Barack Obama has experienced racism like this before, then it doesn’t really matter what McCain’s intentions were.” If Obama thought it was racist, then it was, independent of McCain’s intentions. If Obama didn’t think it was racist, it still could be depending on McCain’s intentions.

  33. “i honestly don’t understand how a white person can treat a POC in a dehumanizing manner and have it NOT be racist.”

    Academically, I guess I’d have to say that if the white person dehumanizes *everybody* that way then it isn’t racist to direct that behavior at a POC. Somehow I don’t think that characterizing McCain as an actual sociopath is really the defense against racism that the GOP is looking for, though. :p

    More realistically, I thought it was absolutely racist in context. Like some other people said, McCain wouldn’t direct that kind of language at another white man. Maybe at a woman, or someone much younger, though… But even the latter example would probably just mean he’s an asshole *as well as* a racist, not *instead of*.

  34. And the answer directed at the man in the audience, re Freddie/Fannie, was probably supposed to come off as “here, son” but I heard “boy” too. McCain was totally buddy-buddy, we-are-almost-equals to the ex-major on the other side of the room though. That was a pretty extreme contrast… (Of course, there were plenty of other variables besides race, so it’s not an air-tight condemnation or anything.)

  35. I’ll throw my two cents in about the debate. I thought McCain’s response to Oliver’s (the young black guy) question about how the bailout would help ordinary people was particularly weird / patronizing. McCain says at the end of his answer how the bailout will help people like Allen stay in their homes. Allen was the older white man who asked a question right before Oliver. It seemed that McCain just assumed that Oliver didn’t own his won home, and moreover, McCain couldn’t make the jump to thinking that Oliver’s parents or siblings might own homes that they would want to stay in. Instead McCain goes back to someone that he assumes does own his own home (the older white man, Allen) to use as his example of ordinary people who will be helped by the bailout. He really missed an opportunity to connect with an undecided voter there and I think it shows something about how he doesn’t understand the concerns of black voters.

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