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Griffith Update

Thomas

It seems I got my wish (see Justifiable Homicide). As press ramps up for the documentary “Ring of Fire,” Griffith is becoming more comfortable with who he is and what he did that night in 1961 to Benny Paret.

Bob Herbert’s column this morning recounts Griffith saying,

“I got tired,” he said, “of people calling me faggot.” He said again, as he has many times, that he was sorry Paret had died. But he added: “He called me a name. … So I did what I had to do.”

I think he’s made his peace with that night, and I think he’s made peace with who he is:

I asked Mr. Griffith if he was gay, and he told me no. But he looked as if he wanted to say more. He told me he had struggled his entire life with his sexuality, and agonized over what he could say about it. He said he knew it was impossible in the early 1960’s for an athlete in an ultramacho sport like boxing to say, “Oh, yeah, I’m gay.”

But after all these years, he wanted to tell the truth. He’d had relations, he said, with men and women. He no longer wanted to hide. He hoped to ride this year in New York’s Gay Pride Parade.

Good for him.

16 thoughts on Griffith Update

  1. I wonder then, if not gay, then what he would call himself. Not that he needs to “name” himself necessarily, but how he defines his sexuality considering some of the things quoted above.

  2. I can’t answer for him. Most folks that are comfortable saying they are active with both men and women say they are bi, but if he’s uncomfortable with labels, I’m glad to work with him where he is.

    I’m glad to hear he wants to be in the parade — he goes on the wall next to Greg Lougainis and Esera Tuolo as a gay/bi male sports hero. There’s still a lot of space on that wall. I mean, really … who? Two NFL players, retired. A diver, retired. A major league baseball player, retired. One fighter, retired. No NBA players that I know of, no hockey players I know of, no golfers, no race car drivers …

  3. Thomas —

    It only takes a bit of looking. See:

    http://gaysport.ozboxing.org/profiles.htm

    and
    http://www.outsports.com/outathletes/

    I think the other thing about Griffith is he’s Black; there’s quite a resistance among Black men to identifying as “gay” because it’s seen as a white thing. It’s just not the same cultural history for Black men who have sex with both men and women as it is for white men who have sex with both men and women. See, for example: http://members.aol.com/blacksgl/sgl.htm

  4. Hardass, I have seen both those lists before. They are still really thin gay men, and really thin on famous gay men. Kopec and Toulo were linemen, largely unknown to the viewing public. The fighters listed are guys even I’ve barely heard of, and I’m a real fan of pro boxing.

    Lougainis is different — he dominated the sport. But it’s diving, so there’s less machismo involved.

    Griffith is a huge “get” (though it’s crass to put it that way, like stealing faculty members) because he’s black, because it’s boxing, but also because he was a great fighter — a consensus top 10 welterweight of all time.

    Among retired athletes, I’d love to see a power sprinter, especially an olympic medalist; a hall-of-fame NBA player or two, especially one with a reputation for gutty, physical play; a great pitcher; and a quarterback. I’ve got my guesses for each, and I bet you’re guessing the same people I am.

  5. Oh, you want FAMOUS gay MEN in MACHO sports. I didn’t realize that.
    By the way, why? I suppose that macho gay men will break down stereotypes of what it means to be macho? And they will be better at it if they are famous?

    But did you see that one of the boxers listed is known as the “Pink Pounder”? Ah, the innuendo….

  6. Yeah, I want big, macho, muscular sweaty famous gay men … maybe that’s a personal preference.

    In terms of what manhood means, sports, and macho sports, are important because the masculinity of gay men is a major point of attack by the dominant culture. Breaking down the stereotype that gay men are less manly is a high-yield proposition.

    Fame is important because of visibility. Esera Tuolo and Bob Jackson-Paris are the biggest most manly men I can think of — but what impact do they have if nobody knows who they are?

    I’m not sure that sports have the same place in the social construction of womanhood — in fact I’m sure they don’t.

  7. Speaking of breaking down the stereotype that gay men are less manly, did you watch the most recent rendition of the Real World on MTV? (I’m trying to quit the cable habit and actually act my age, but just haven’t gotten the hang of it yet.) Anyhoo, they had not one but TWO gay guys on the show, one who was more stereoptypically gay, and the other who was very, very “straight-acting”. I think just the appearance of him on TV was a remarkable step forward in breaking down stereotypes of gay men. The “straight-looking” one, Karamo, was Black, and a jock, and just shocked the crap out of the white jocky straight guys in the house when he came out. Awesome.

    And I agree that sports certainly don’t have the same place in the social construction of womanhood has they do for manhood. I think it’s pretty much the opposite. Maybe some bulldyke ballerina would do the trick….

  8. I shouldn’t admit this, because I’m probably older than you, Hardass, and I have a family of my own and no excuse … but I did actually see two or three episodes of Real World, which I gave up on years ago. I thought Karamo was great — fantastic for breaking down stereotypes. (I think he was also great for educating some of the housemates what it’s like to be black in America, but that’s another conversation.)

  9. I was thinking about it, and came up with two other heart-warming stereotype-breaking incidents:

    Have you been watching the Contender? I LOVE it, even though you can’t actually tell how well anyone boxes, since you don’t get to see the whole fight. What I like the most about it is that with the exception of one guy, every one that’s lost a fight has cried at the end. For some reason I just love that.

    Second, perhaps because I’m a big gay homo, the men at my gym feel that I will not judge them when they tell me about their own sexual proclivities. These are men who very effectively fight people, who look like be-muscled he-men, and three of them have told me how much they enjoy getting fucked in the ass (although they are always careful to say “BY WOMEN”). I find this heart-warming, somehow. (In some cases, of course, they are telling me this because they want ME to do the doing, but it’s still cute.)

  10. You’re on to something here. When I was a teenager just figuring out that I was an S/Mer, I opened up to a few lesbian and bisexual women I knew much more easily. Like you said, I figured that they were already outside the mainstream and therefore must have had a healthy skepticism about the approved social rules of sex.

    The reactions varied from the sublime to the ridiculous. Some of those women turned into good friends. Others either took offense. I remember one woman assumed that I thought she was kinky just because she was bi. Another woman, who interned where I did, was just coming out and was telling me her coming out story, and so I told her about coming out as an S/Mer. She thought I was hitting on her, when I was in fact completely convinced she wasn’t interested in men. (She was thin, blonde and very attractive in the conventional way that draws unwanted male attention, so I can see why she assumed I was hitting on her. She got hit on all the time.)

    The relationship between gay men and straight women has gotten plenty of attention. Hell, it has its own show. Lesbians and straight men … there’s a whole uneasy connection there that nobody talks about. I’m not talking about straight guys who want to watch two women have sex. That’s easy to understand, and has nothing to do with lesbians. I talking about the relationship between straight guys and real lesbians.

    About men taking it in the ass — it’s my sense of it that this is becoming really common, a trend even. I was doing it before it was cool.

  11. By the way, the director of the documentary on Griffith was on NPR this morning. I’m glad you mentioned this story, Thomas, because I would have changed the station had I not been familiar with it. I want to get ahold of the movie, but alas, no cable.

  12. Re: straight men and lesbians. There’s a lot of things I’ve come to understand about straight men’s relationship to women once I started dating women. My sympathy for straight men has grown immeasurably. Male friends have caught me on numerous occasions looking at women in the gym (and by “looking”, I mean “checking out”). Some part of me is horrified that I’m doing what I’ve found irritating when it’s done to me. The other thing is that I don’t even realize that I’m looking. One male friend endeavored to give me lessons on how to look without anyone knowing you’re looking. I’ve also become more receptive to the looking.

    Wow, is it cool for straight men to take it in the ass now? Wild. I mean, I know we have Bend Over, Boyfriend now, but cool? To the point of common, you think?

  13. Well, I don’t know about common — but Dan Savage created a term (“pegging”), and Tristan Taormino’s workshops are full of straight couples — and from the comments it’s not all men penetrating women. Maybe common among the cognoscenti. But not rare.

    I don’t know — someone must have numbers on this, or at least a biased-sample view … what are the folks at Babes in Toyland seeing?

    Now here’s the other question. If you’re out at the gym, why are guys asking you to fuck them? Do they think you’re open to the approach, or is it just a wild gamble? That’s always one of the real issues, I think, between lesbians and straight guys, one that, IME, gets sorted out very early: is she a Kinsey 6, or is there an outside chance?

  14. I don’t know why guys are asking me to fuck them, even if they know I’m a dyke. I’ve certainly run into enough guys who just want to have sex with lesbians (Chasing Amy, anyone?). One time I was at a gay bar by myself, and a guy offered to buy me a drink. I thought a gay guy felt sorry because I was there by my lonesome. But then the guy started to hit on me. I replied, “You do know you’re in a gay bar, right?”

    Yes, he did.

    “This therefore means it’s probably not the best place for you to pick up chicks, right?” I ask.

    “I like having sex with lesbians,” he replies.

    To which I think, “But do lesbians like having sex with you?”

    Maybe some men think lesbians are a challenge. Maybe some think we’re kinkier by nature. I don’t know.

    I am also a feminine woman, with long blonde hair and toenail polish. I think any time someone sees a hint of femininity, they think we can’t be 100% gay (whatever that means).

    My gym’s culture has a bit of flirtation going on in it, at any rate. I think this results from the fact that fighting is a very intimate experience. On more than one night of the week, I will be pressed up against a sweaty, half-naked man endeavoring to dominate him in a clench. It’s quite erotic at times, as much as we tend not to let on.

  15. Lots to chew on here.

    Femininity and heterosexuality: I think you’re probably right that straight guys assume that more butch women are kinsey sixes — though possibly, they don’t care and are just not interested in these women. I would guess there is an assumption that femme women are likely a little bit bi. As far as I can tell, those assumptions are not accurate and occasional sex with men among lesbian women is pretty randomly distributed, but I can’t say I have access to a valid sample.

    I don’t know what “100% gay” means either– I think we have not yet begun to disaggregate affectional orientation and sexual behavior. I think there are more than a few people who can be sexually intimate with either sex, but who find romantic partners among only one.

    The guy in the bar: as an economist, you must recognize that just because a strategy is low-yield doesn’t mean it isn’t effective. If this guy likes sex with lesbian women, and a randomly distributed 5% of lesbians who go to gay bars are amenable to an occasional pick-up with men, he has a potential market of one in twenty. It’s a lot of trying, but if the sex is that much better for him, maybe it’s worth the effort.

    Why he likes lesbians I can’t say, but he wouldn’t be the first guy with a thing for lesbian women. Some guys may assume that lesbians are kinkier, but I would guess it really has to do with less of a “scripted” view of sex. I think some guys get frustrated with straight women partners that they feel trapped into the progression-to-intercourse model, but they are scared to deviate from the script because they fear that they’ll be judged. Now, that’s a good reason in my book, but I also wish these guys had the courage to stand their ground and do something to improve the sexual culture of the straight crowd.

    (To tell you the truth, I am also often attracted to lesbian and bisexual women, but I’m so far on the skinny end of the kinky distribution curve that I’m a bad example and cannot speak to most other straight guys’ motivations. I like crew-cut butches, and I do S/M. I also don’t hit on lesbians because I figure it will just annoy them. The gay and bi women I have had sex with have never been pick-ups. They were all friends first.)

    I totally agree on the erotic component of fighting, too. I trained in TKD with a 5’2″ woman who routinely handed me my ass. Though I tried never to let on, she was fantasy material for years. At one point, her boyfriend must have figured out that I had a crush on her. He trained with us, and he let me have it in a few sparring sessions.

  16. I’m truly not offended by the guy in the bar, by the way. I’m not offended by the guys in my gym. I find it flattering, pretty much. Living in Sodom as a I do, and having been part of GLBT communities, trans communities, and S/M communities (me too!), my definitions of sexual identity, sex, gender, what’s hot, and what’s possible are all very fluid.

    To tell YOU the truth (and maybe my gay card will get revoked), but I find the men at my gym to be desperately sexy. I haven’t had sex with any of them, since I’m in a monogamous relationship, and since that might screw up the gym culture, but I won’t deny looking.

    Shall I move this over to my blog? It’ll probably freak out my few avid readers, who I think are academics. Then again, maybe they’ll all say, “Oh Anathema, thank you so much for the opportunity to realize I am not the only pervert economist!”

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