Michelle and Hillary Open Thread

31 thoughts on Michelle and Hillary Open Thread

1. I didn’t stay up late enough for Hillary’s speech (I have a cold and the night medicine kicked in hardcore) but I read a transcript of it this morning and I will listen to it later. I know she would have had me crying though, especially with how her mother couldn’t vote and her daughter was able to vote for her for president. Also her quoting of Harriet Tubman.

   I managed to see Obama’s speech the night before though and I loved it. I have always loved Michelle from the first time I saw her and I thought she did amazing. Sometimes I did feel like she was holding back, making herself seem less intense. I”m assuming because right before she walked on stage someone from the campaign ran up to her and told her to make sure she was all soft and pleasant. But either way she was a powerful speaker and I would love to have her as first lady..especially cause once the election is over I think she would really be able to let her personality loose.

2. Hillary was very fiery, especially during the Harriet Tubman bit. She kind of had me wanting to applaud at the tv in my living room.

   I agree that Michelle was trying to make herself seem less intense — that was after all, the point of the speech, to say “see, we’re an all-american family, too!” And you know that all-american wives can’t be too passionate. But for the kind of speech that she gave, she did it with incredible grace, warmth and intelligence. Knowing the kind of speech she was going to give, I was worried that she’d be all wishy washy, but I should have known better. 🙂

3. Michelle’s speech was smooth but left me pretty much untouched because, as Cara said, it was a “see, we’re an all-american family, too!” effort. It was strong and well delivered, but was far more focused on humanizing the Obama’s than on politics or what she personally cares about. It is sad that they have to spend so much time breaking down the wall of otherness that has been erected around them by rumor and fear, but I understand they do.

   Hillary on the other hand was a bit slow to start for me. I’ve never been a fan of her speaking style, but once she really warmed up the crowd and warmed up to the topics she was discussing it turned into a very good speech. I think she definitely gave anyone who was stepping away from the dems a HUGE chunk of thinkmeat to chew on. I don’t know that it was as big of an issue as CNN and the others are still trying to make it out to be.

   Overall, Hillary’s speech was the better of the two, but I’m still itching for some good demagoguery. Not attacking the repugnants mind you, rather about their beliefs and what they are going to push for. Over-all favorite line was the Twin Cities line from Hillary.

4. I loved Hillary’s speech. She had me in tears several times and I love the funny bits (sisterhood of the travelling pants suits!) She delivered an excellent message for comming together as one party for the purpose of electing a democrat for president. Hearing her made me a little sad still that she isn’t the nominee, but I also feel more inspired to vote for Obama because of the need for a democrat in the white house if nothing else. So worth staying up late for!

5. “She delivered an excellent message for comming together as one party for the purpose of electing a democrat for president.”

   It’s too bad there’s so many groups springing up for Hillary voters that won’t vote for Obama. I wonder how much of that is legitimate and how much is being stoked by Republicans. I know they’d love almost nothing more than for every Clinton voter to question voting for Obama this November.

   I’m so glad she’s not our nominee but there was lots to be proud of last night. I think she still has a bright future ahead of her.

6. Hillary was wonderful, as she always is. Michelle’s speech was typical.

7. I’m surprised other people were lukewarm about Michelle’s speech. I thought she was incredible.

8. I thought both women gave excellent speeches. I would not have missed them for the world. They are both successful women in their own right and have both achieved so many firsts. The only thing I felt sad about is that they both had to give such targeted messages. I wonder what they would have said had they both been able to speak more freely.

9. “Thinkmeat”! I love it!

   I was very moved by Hillary’s speech, especially (as others have said) the climactic Harriet Tubman quoting – goosebumps. I also thought, as someone did point out on CNN (very positively) that there were many more explicitly feminist references than I might have expected…I know it was the anniversary of women’s suffrage so in context it makes sense but it was still great to hear.

   I also thought Kucinich did a bang-up job earlier in the night! If anyone missed him, it may be on youtube somewhere.

10. Just FYI, those CNN links don’t have the full transcript or video of Clinton’s speech (and they don’t indicate on the page that it’s only excerpts, grr). I found a more complete video and transcript at HuffPo.

11. UGH. I didn’t really have the time to watch the full videos or read the full transcripts and just kind of trusted what they said they were. Stupid CNN. Thanks for the info, I’ll update with the HuffPo link.

12. And to add a substantive comment, I thought both speeches were terrific–moving, rousing, and beautifully delivered. Michelle Obama has poise coming out her ears–her delivery was less fiery than Clinton’s, but I thought she was outstanding.

13. Charity: “thinkmeat” generally refers to a brain, but just too tempting of a phrase to not use it.

    PlanetJanet: I think a great deal of it is spawned by the republicans, and is being sustained and echoed by the media’s need for drama and perception of the democrats as perpetually bickering internally.

14. Does anyone else think that Michelle “dumbed down” by using phrases like “me and Obama” as opposed to “Obama and I” (i.e. to make herself more acceptable to the masses by being less formal or whatever the fuck)? It may be me being too sensitive but her verbiage was I don’t know…off..and not as eloquent as it normally is?

15. I haven’t sat and listened to her speaking style in general, but it would not surprise me as the content of the speech and tone of it was meant to appeal to the masses as well, focusing on presenting a typical mother and wife, rather than as a graduate of a prestigious law school, and a fiercely intelligent and strong woman.

16. @Sylvia…you know that is the point about being allowed to speak freely. Both women were given an agenda that they had to fulfill and this is why no matter how great the speeches were I believe that there was a level of authenticity that was missing. What we saw was a lot of who they believed Americans wanted them to be and how much of that actually represented their true beliefs or positions is questionable.

17. Some quotes from Michelle Obama’s speech:

    About her father’s work ethic:

    And although he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in his early 30s, he was our provider. He was our champion, our hero. But as he got sicker, it got harder for him to walk, took him longer to get dressed in the morning. But if he was in pain, he never let on. He never stopped smiling and laughing, even while struggling to button his shirt, even while using two canes to get himself across the room to give my mom a kiss. He just woke up a little earlier and he worked a little harder.

    Then, about the a crowd of people Barak Obama was addressing in Chicago:

    d the people gathered together that day were ordinary folks doing the best they could to build a good life. See, they were parents trying to get by from paycheck to paycheck; grandparents trying to get it together on a fixed income; men frustrated that they couldn’t support their families after jobs just disappeared. You see, those folks weren’t asking for a handout or a shortcut. See, they were ready to work.

    …People who work the day shift, then kiss their kids good night and head out for the night shift without disappointment, without regret.

    And then, about herself:

    And in my own life — (cheers, applause) — in my own life, in my own small way, I have tried to give back to this country that has given me so much.

    More than the “see, we’re an all-american family, too!” message that Cara pointed out, I thought that Michelle Obama’s speech was also trying to go against this idea that she wasn’t patriotic enough, or American enough because of that comment she made when she said, “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country.”

    Because, you know, none of us have anything to be ashamed of in the racist and sexist history (and present) of our country.

    I think it’s a little depressing that Michelle Obama’s speech had to work so hard against the pervading stereotypes about Black women and the Black communities in Chicago and other urban areas, that they are too lazy, too angry, to demanding, and not grateful enough.

    I’m not criticizing her strategy or her rhetoric (and, as a white person and someone with no political strategizing experience, have no right to), I just find it depressing that these racist tropes are still part of the terms of the debate, still part of the discourse in which this campaign is operating.

18. And maybe HRC made this call herself, perhaps a memo was circulated that i didn’t get a copy of, but can somebody tell me exactly what year did Harriet Tubman get reduced to a mascot for privileged white women?

    maybe i missed that part of history class.

    also, can somebody explain to my grandmother what the 19th amendment did for black women, when they still couldn’t vote long after white women could (largely because white women lied to black women to get their support for the issue then used their vote to vote against civil rights and issues relevant to blacks included Jim Crow), yet we still talk about “women’s rights?

    maybe it’s just my testerone showing or my uppitiness blocking my view of things.

19. From a simple viewing standpoint, I found both speeches rousing and interesting, but from a political strategy standpoint, I found it interesting how often Hillary mentioned *her* achievements as opposed to what Barack Obama specifically could do for the country. It was much more a “get a Democrat in the White House” speech than a “this guy is a good candidate” speech. Which, considering that a large part of the DNC is stirring enthusiasm for the candidate, was interesting. As much as I enjoyed her speech, I felt at times that she was trying more to protect her legacy than she was trying to stir up enthusiasm for Obama. Her segues into “Barack Obama will be our president” felt a bit unnatural. Maybe it was just me, though.

20. How does quoting Harriet Tubman “reduce” her to a mascot?

21. I wondered about appropriation and the Tubman reference; it was rousing rhetoric in the moment, but it also invoked race without actually talking about race, which of course has been one of the most frustrating aspects of this whole election process. But I also thought that evoking Tubman as the defining story of America was potentially a complex and powerful gesture: that the story of what it means to be American is that of escape from/rebellion against tyranny, including the tyranny perpetuated by our own country, is not something I’ve heard many white, wealthy, fairly centrist politicians say.

22. Those were the two best speeches at the convention I’ve seen. Although I heard kucinich gave a barn burner, but the cable networks wouldn’t show it. Damn, I’m switching to cspan.

    That key note speech by mark warner? WTF was that? Are you freaking kidding me? What a snoozer.

23. Medea says: How does quoting Harriet Tubman “reduce” her to a mascot?

    By mentioning the struggles of woman who you’d otherwise ignore simply so you can parallel your campaign as a rich white woman with her freeing slaves and being a slave herself? I’m sorry, I know BS when I hear it and I’m calling BS. It’s an insult to people who go thru real struggle. But anything to make her point, so whatever.

24. also, can somebody explain to my grandmother what the 19th amendment did for black women, when they still couldn’t vote long after white women could

    That occurred to me too.

25. Black Canseco, what, in your opinion, constitutes “real struggle”? Are rich white women incapable of struggling against anything?

    I agree that quoting Harriet Tubman after running a racist campaign is a bad move, but I think that anyone’s words of wisdom are up for grabs if they are used in good faith.

26. Sadly we are comparing the speech of the “wife” of a candidate to a candidate. Why are we doing this to ourselves again? Sen Clinton isn’t the “wife” she is the candidate. Compare Sen Clinton’s speech to Barack’s.

27. Uh, no Liz, we’re comparing them because they were both headlining speakers. In any case, I wasn’t looking for a comparison, and I don’t believe that many people were talking about comparison, as much as a discussion of each. Further, Obama still has not given his speech which makes such a comparison currently impossible. Though I found the fact that women were headlining speakers on the first two nights of the convention interesting, and this is a feminist blog and therefore relevant, we can now compare both Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama’s speeches to Joe Biden’s, if you like.

28. Finally, I’m seeing other people who were feeling, like I did, that Michelle Obama had to dumb down her style and content to appeal to “just folks”.

    I felt like I was listening to a brilliant, accomplished woman trying her hardest to shoe-horn herself into the role of June Cleever.

    Yes, I know, she’s not the candidate, but rather the candidate’s wife, but boy, did she lay on the wifely, helpmate thing thick.

    I’m not a huge Hillary fan, but I can’t wait for a woman to be the leader rather than yet another “first mom” of the U.S.

29. B. Canseco: “By mentioning the struggles of woman who you’d otherwise ignore simply so you can parallel your campaign as a rich white woman with her freeing slaves and being a slave herself? I’m sorry, I know BS when I hear it and I’m calling BS. It’s an insult to people who go thru real struggle. But anything to make her point, so whatever.”

    That’s like saying you can’t mention landing on the moon unless you struggled as part of NASA to make it happen. Why can’t it be mentioned in good faith?

30. “….so you can parallel your campaign as a rich white woman with her freeing slaves and being a slave herself”

    While by quoting Tubman she may, in your view, have been implicitly paralleling Tubman’s struggles and enslavement with her campaign, I believe she was in fact *explicitly* paralleling Tubman’s sentiments with the “American spirit” of “keep going.” Whether or not we agree with that or find it schmaltzy political tripe is another thing, but Hillary was no longer talking about HER campaign at that point in the speech – more, invoking a “can-do” narrative about the positive direction the country can and should move in BY ELECTING OBAMA, and citing evidence that Americans like Tubman have done incredible things in the past, against great odds and in the face of great adversity. You can still argue she shouldn’t have used Tubman as an example but then I think we’d be complaining that she DIDN’T cite any women of color in a speech that was so heavy on mentioning women and their achievements. As it was, my hope is that little girls, young women, or even older women watching the speech who look up to Hillary and were previously unfamiliar with the work of Harriet Tubman (sadly that is not unrealistic) may now be moved to look it up and learn something new, just as they might after hearing her mention Seneca falls, suffragists, etc. They will no doubt run into further whitewashing and distortion of history in their searchings but at least they have a starting point.

31. I see Liz’s point. I enjoyed both speeches, but agree — Michelle Obama’s role is the prospective first lady and she was coached and delivered a speech appropriately couched to appeal to the maximum number of voters along those lines. HRC’s speech was that of a candidate. Putting them together because they are women begs the question of whether we’d put a non-politician prospective first man’s speech in the same category as that of a male candidate. Answer: we wouldn’t. That takes nothing away from Michelle Obama, a smart and charismatic woman who has in the past, and I’m sure in the future will continue to, achieve on her own steam.

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