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Grasping

The Washington Post is beginning a series on low-wage workers, a demographic I happen to occupy. The first article in the series covers the basics of who low-wage workers are (most likely to be young, female, and/or Hispanic), how much they earn (less than $27,000 for single people, or $42,000 for a family of four), and what it means when jobs are scarce, pay poorly with little to no perks or benefits, and the anxiety one feels when she realizes she’s without a safety net should she stumble. Some of the information in this first article are things we hear repeated daily in newspapers and nightly news — low confidence in the market, growing anxiety, trying to find expenses to cut once you’ve already tightened the belt — but I think these are things we need to keep hearing.

About half said they would only be able to survive a month before landing in financial trouble if they suddenly lost their jobs, while a third said they would last two weeks or less. A third of those polled said that someone in their families has been laid off or lost a job in the past year, while many others said their own or a family member’s work hours had been reduced…

…With inflation up 5 percent in the past year, the vast majority of those surveyed are having trouble paying for gas, saving for retirement or for their children’s educations. Most find it difficult to afford health care and housing, and nearly half struggle to pay for food.

For many, their jobs contribute to the stress. Three in 10 work for companies that do not offer them health insurance or paid vacations. About 4 in 10 get no sick days or retirement benefits.

Anxiety, loss, worry, difficulty, helplessness, failure. Most people in low-wage jobs blame themselves, not their employers, for their circumstances, no matter the skill level of the job at hand.

Even with two incomes, we fit easily into the family demographic provided by WaPo. My family would last two weeks or so on savings if Chef or I lost a job, and while I have access to benefits that are quite generous, they’re expensive enough to take a sizeable portion of my post-tax paycheck. Chef’s job, second-ranking kitchen guy in a local restaurant, actually affords him more than me per hour, but affords him no benefits or paid time off whatsoever. We get paid two times a month, and one sum goes almost exclusively to rent while the other goes almost exclusively to bills. The rest goes to groceries, maybe a night out every couple of months, and our one real extravagance, wine. Sundries, clothing, school fees. Loans, taxes, gasoline. What comes in goes out. Financial advice consists of curbing trips to Starbucks, cancelling that elusive gym membership your never use, and other Ways You Can Stop Being Poor If You Weren’t So Damn Stupid.

One thing I indicated I wanted to write about during my blogging stint as Feministe is life as a low-wage worker, and while I can’t devote too much time tonight to that (the child starts school tomorrow and I worked a ten hour day), feel free to share some of your experiences in the comments below while I brew up a few more substantial posts.


73 thoughts on Grasping

  1. Financial advice consists of curbing trips to Starbucks, cancelling that gym membership your never use, advice that would never apply to people like us anyway.

    I’ve noticed that to be a problem with a lot of financial articles and books. If you don’t have money, you can’t afford most of the ‘excesses’ these articles suggest curbing. There isn’t any real advice for people who don’t have to make decisions with their paychecks because it’s all already allocated as soon as it’s in hand.

    It feels sometimes like the journalists and writers are very out of touch, like they presume everyone has this luxury money laying about. It reminds me very much of politicians and pundits who go on about people living it up on welfare, not seeming to realize that the amount paid (520/month in Ontario a couple years back) doesn’t cover food and shelter, let alone lattes and eating out.

  2. For many, their jobs contribute to the stress. Three in 10 work for companies that do not offer them health insurance or paid vacations. About 4 in 10 get no sick days or retirement benefits.

    There’s three things this country really needs, that would go about 90% of the way to addressing the economic injustice in this country. Universal healthcare, a living wage, and mandatory paid vacation. I don’t have patience for the William F. Buckley’s of the world, who say we can’t afford it or it would destroy the economy. Numerous other developed, prosperous countries have these laws.

  3. Australia has universal health care, a living wage (if you can get full-time or permanent part-time work!), mandatory paid vacation (ditto) and moderate unemployment and disability payments (though bureaucracy is designed to keep people out of this category as much as possible). Unfortunately, we have major equity problems from region to region – Aboriginial communities, small rural communities and outer suburbs (the latter two are regions with more affordable housing) have major transport and employment problems. It can be very, very easy to end up trapped by location. It’s not all sunshine!

    On the other hand, you’re not going to get a half-a-million dollar medical bill in the post, as recently happened to the family of an American friend of mine.

  4. It seems incredibly hard for me to find a job where I would making enough to afford a $600 apartment by myself and have health insurance.

    Seriously…all the jobs that pay well enough are temp positions.I really don’t have any hope that I’ll ever move out of my parents house. I’ve accepted it.

  5. I work in a women’s shelter, 40 hours a week, and am paid $24k a year. I have a bachelor’s degree.

    It’s barely enough to live on. My job requires me to drive for a part of it yet does not pay me enough to afford to have a car. It’s ludicrous. And the work we are doing is so important, yet turnover is so high because of the low pay.

    It’s extremely frustrating.

  6. I know what you mean about the articles on how to help you “cut back” and “save money.”

    I was looking up ways for the boyfriend and I to stretch our money further and found exactly the kinds of “useful tips” you described. One website actually suggested “firing the maid” and “doing the cleaning yourself!” Seriously, with the prevalence of financial trouble, this is the best these “experts” can come up with?

  7. I have a fantastic job, work- and coworker-wise. I have pretty good benefits (medical, paid vacation, annual bus pass — no retirement plan). But I make a small hourly wage working 35 hours a week at a small business, because my employers are still struggling to make a profit after almost two years. But, they’re willing to provide my boyfriend with health insurance (as a domestic partner), and the benefits of having a fantastic boss almost make up for it. This is way better than working retail at minimum wage, but, financially-speaking, it still sucks.

  8. if i made $27,000 in a year i would feel like i had won the lottery. before i moved back home at 25 years old i was living in a 3 bedroom apartment with 5 other adults. the only couple involved was myself and one of the other adults. 6 people, one bathroom, and impressively no homicides in the house, although that was only due to incredible restraint on my part. it was the only way we could all afford to live in the city (chicago) where we had access to public transportation and a large job market. it doesnt really matter how large the job market is tho if youre struggling with mental health and physical health disabilities but are so overwhelmed by them and by life and by your shitty part time job that makes you sick cos the building is full of mold with no ventilation, that you cant actually get around to applying for disability.

    now i live at home, 27 years old, well, technically i live in the apartment attached to my mothers house with my fiance who pays rent and bills while my mother lets me stay for free. no job as my mom wanted me to give the junior college a chance since i could get a free ride, being all broke and whatnot. its a good thing im not looking for a job tho, as this area has the 3rd highest unemployment rate in illinois. plus the only jobs i can do are retail or waitressing/bartending, and since the economy is umm, not so healthy, retail doesnt much need new employees, and a waitress or bartender with no customers is a person trying to live on $3-$4 an hour part-time. it would probably cost me more in gas to get to a job than i would earn at the job.

    the older and more cynical i get the more i think the system really is set up intentionally to harm/kill the poor or disabled. i dont want to believe this, i want to think its all on accident and that the people in power are just so far removed from the poor/working persons reality that they dont realize the lives they leave us to live. my best friend had to drop out of the junior college so she could work more, even tho she had a 4.0 gpa and really liked the learning. now she makes just enough money to cover her rent and bills and train/bus fare. if she didnt work at a grocery store that has a deli where she is allowed to eat for free while she is at work, she wouldnt get to to eat at all. sure, she could probably get a Link card, but that takes time and the fortitude to deal with a bunch of red tape and to be able to accept that you really are that poor, which is the hardest thing to accept as you always tell yourself “oh no, i dont need that, there are so many other people worse off who need it more.”

    the ideas for saving money that you mention in that article are just plain ridiculous. i dont like when people who arent in a particular position try to define what that position is like. even in “nickel and dimed” i was irritated becos as much as i like barbara eihnreich and respect her as a writer/activist, i felt like she was writing a book about something she could only see from the outside, even while she was there. if i’m going to read about being poor, i much prefer the broke diaries by angela nissell, as not only did she get it and live it, but she also managed to make me laugh at my poverty and at hers for just how ridiculous it is. and she got into a fight with someone at the checkout line at wal-mart and kept the woman from hitting her by wildly waving a broom around above her head.

  9. This is all too familiar for my family. When I heard a report on my local NPR station that (gasp!) some people were paying as much as $150 a month for health insurance, I started laughing. My family pays over $100 a WEEK for insurance! I want to grind my teeth when I hear people say that families like mine should just cut extra expenses. There are three of us in my family, yet we live in an apartment meant for 1. We don’t have a TV or cable, and haven’t been able to pay the oil or electric bill in a couple months. I haven’t bough clothes for myself or my husband (even from a thrift store) in years. All of my son’s clothes are donations from friends. I don’t even have enough money to buy my son a birthday or christmas present. We only have one car, but I have had to keep my son home from daycare and myself home from school or work some days because we didn’t have $10 to put in the tank for me to get us there. The funny thing is, my husband has a masters degree and a professional job and we’re struggling this hard. We don’t even live in a very expensive area. How the f** are minimum wage workers not starving to death if a family of educated professionals is struggling this hard?

  10. We’re a decent level above hand-to-mouth, and I still think that kind of financial advice is ridiculous. We’ve never had house cleaner. I have never set foot in a Starbucks. When we do have leftover money (which happens occassionally now), the usual choice is more “Do we save it? Or do we replace the 200,000 mile car? Or do we see my brother for the first time in three years?”

  11. As a family of two, my husband and I are doing okay financially, but we wouldn’t make it more than a month if I lost my job. He’s going back to school and my temp job (which has lasted two years) doesn’t provide any benefits, not even paid sick leave. I’ve looked for other jobs, but they all pay significantly less and it wouldn’t be worth the pay cut to get health insurance.

    We are currently expecting our first child and we are paying cash for midwife services. I’m just hoping that going from a family of two to a family of three will make us eligible for state funded healthcare or medicaid.

  12. Don’t forget the you should pay $2-8K on that retraining course that takes 12-80 weeks advice!

    I get alot of that one. I also love getting the “some immigrants are working *two* jobs in hot kitchens so that they could study at night” line. Wonder if they can even follow their own #^$#%^ advice if they didn’t have a job.

  13. I’m reading these comments and I can’t stop myself from wanting to help each and every one of you. After reading what’s been said here, I can see why everyone would say that a lot of the personal finance advice out there is geared moreso towards mid- and upper-middle class that are making truly stupid decisions. I’ve never been impressed with money makeovers for people that actually have money. I’d be more impressed if these gurus went to the working poor and helped them reach financial independence. I once saw a video of a woman who was living on welfare and in the projects when someone from the Dave Ramsey (I’m not the fan of the guy but most of his advice is pretty solid) school of thought actually helped her find another job, taught her how to make a successful budget, and she ended up moving into an apartment of her own in a safer neighborhood and off welfare. Now THAT’s a compelling story.

    Personally, I don’t have all the answers, but if there are people here that are looking for more personal advice/help with how to save money, I’ve found the Women In Red message board on MSN.com to be pretty impressive. It’s basically women giving each other financial advice and support. Typically someone seeking advice would list their montly expenditures along with income, and the board members look at that and offer ways to save money. Not just by cutting something, but I’ve seen people suggest using Angel Food Ministries for food, applying for federal aid if you qualify, etc.

    I know that doesn’t answer the greater question, but that might be someplace to go to look for immediate help. : /

  14. Began working in the UK at what seemed to me, at first, to be a fantastically high salary (coming from retail hell and thinking in $CAD) — but it doesn’t go very far in London. Hoping to avoid taking on a second job, I began looking up articles on how to save money, and found the same “cut back on the lattes” shit that Lauren and Hysterical Woman mention. I did the math, over and over, and found that I might as well get that £1.40 mocha. I might indeed save a bit of money scrimping on little things, but in order to substantially raise my standard of living — enough to rent a room that I don’t have to share, to pay off the loan I paid off my student loan with, to afford private therapy, to afford quality goods that will last for years, unlike the cheap crap from Primark or Asda or charity shops — I actually just needed a lot more money.

    You need tiny perks to get you through the dreary uncertain slog that is hand-to-mouthville.

    And yet I’m fortunate; I get three weeks of paid holiday (many jobs seem to offer this, not sure if it’s a national requirement), as a resident I get free healthcare and prescription drugs are capped at an affordable price (about £7/month), through luck I got on a short waiting list for counselling, and a lot of my really valuable stuff — laptop, good boots, professional clothes — were purchased when I was in the money. I’m “grad-school poor”. Things must get better.

    (It’s not all a bed of roses here: jobseeker’s allowance doesn’t pay enough to cover rent let alone anything else.)

  15. I have been significantly poorer than I am now – at one point when I was ill and couldn’t work there was much argument over who should eat (me or the person who could work) – but now I have nightmares about not being able to afford my husband’s medication.

  16. My aunt came to the States as an immigrant with three kids about 15 years ago maybe and worked as a cook (she wasn’t really a chef yet) for Disney. She is married to a guy, who probably is doing ok jobwise, I don’t think his salary is above average middle-class income, and has now four kids. She and her husband managed to buy a house now a couple of years ago. They’re still paying off, but it seems like it was something she could afford.

    I’m just wondering now how these two stories can be so contradicting. The poster strikes me as an intelligent eloquent person, how can it be that she has such a low paid job and has to go through such financial struggles?

    I’m not asking in order to criticize, I’m just really surprised at the extent of the financial misery that the poster and some of the commenters are in. Especially since there are husbands and partners involved. That level of poverty is what you hear single mothers are suffering or people who received a very low education.

    And for clarification, I’m not American, but German. For Germany, single motherhood is a factor that can bring you below the poverty level.

  17. Annie –

    One thing to note is that your $24K salary is partly determined by the laws on charitable giving. Non-profits must count all salary over $25K as “overhead.” Social service agencies especially try to keep this number as low as possible to satisfy donors (and not scare off potential new donors). My father is on the board of a local homeless shelter and it angered him that how this forced shelter workers into a poverty situation themselves, and meant that they lost good people when they got married or started a family. He worked with the local churches to find non-monetary ways to reward workers (for example, donated use of vacation homes).

    Note: this discussion was a few years ago, so things may have changed. But working to raise the salary limits for non-profits would be a good thing for lefties to fight for.

  18. the older and more cynical i get the more i think the system really is set up intentionally to harm/kill the poor or disabled. i dont want to believe this, i want to think its all on accident

    I am convinced that it is intentional. It was during the Reagan years that I first had the idea that the rich/powerful wanted the people at the bottom to suffer. Everything that’s happened politically since then has only confirmed my suspicions. It’s not enough for those at the top to be rich – even superrich. I think most of them would get no satisfaction from their plush lives if they didn’t know how hard it is for those at the bottom. How else can you explain the tax cuts for the rich with simultaneous cuts in services (for the very poorest/sickest cictizens)? It’s just sick.

  19. I make $50 K in NYC, rent a ROOM, not an apt., and STILL live hand to mouth.
    COLLEGE LOANS and debt incurred when I was under-employed are killing me now.
    I could live MAYBE a month with no work. Then I would be homeless.

    It’s just how life is.

    (But when I do have some extra $$, I do enjoy the occasional Starbucks, manicure, or massage. But i am simngle, no kids, and no health probs to contend with….)

  20. I remember how shocked my mother was when I told her that technically I was living way below the povertly limit. (my parents are staunch republicans).
    This year is the first year I have made over 15000, when I got my job I felt like I had won the lottery. In reality it is barely enough to live on. I am the sole income earner in my relationship (my partner is working on an investment that may pay off someday, but maybe not).
    There are alot of us living like this, I don’t understand how everyone talks about the hypothetical poor, when really, it seems like everyone I know is poor. (except employers of course).
    I am poor. This seems hard for people to say, because being poor is always equated with laziness and stupidity. We should know better by now.
    Thanks for addressing this topic.

  21. It’s hard to talk about money, because I’ve always been told that it isn’t nice. You’re not supposed to tell other people how much you make, for some reason. Well, I think that is just another way for poor people to lose – we’ve got to talk about money or nothing will ever change. So I really, really appreciate these posts and all the commenters who share their stories.

  22. $42,000 a year for a family of fourI don’t see how we can continue to have just one standard for the poverty level given the vast differences between cost of living by region.

    My husband and I live paycheck-to-paycheck on our combined $70K/year in Los Angeles. Our one-bedroom apartment is $1600 per month, which takes up almost half our monthly income. Nearly everything else is taken up by groceries, utilities, our one shared car, and student loan payments. We live frugally, brown-bagging it every day and re-use our plastic sandwich bags until they fall to pieces.

    The choices we make are full of ironies: I went to night school for 16 months to get ahead in my career, and now I’m more broke than ever because of huge student loan payments. I got a decent job in my field, but had to buy a car to commute (LA public transport only goes so far), so now I’m also making car payments. We’ve got about $300 in savings, which wouldn’t last long if one of us lost our job.

  23. You know where there are some great tips for living on the cheap? in Lauren’s HUHO project! I found so many great cheap recipes and tips for people who are seriously seriously broke. I’d love to add more to it, I bet that all of us here who are living paycheck to paycheck could come up with A LOT of tips that would actually help people like us make it when we’re short on funds.

  24. It’s hard to talk about money, because I’ve always been told that it isn’t nice. You’re not supposed to tell other people how much you make, for some reason. Well, I think that is just another way for poor people to lose – we’ve got to talk about money or nothing will ever change.

    pardon my dirty mouth, but fuck yeah! its the same mindset that makes americans pretend that we dont have a class system just like anywhere else, or that makes some poor people vote against their own economic self interests, becos they dont realize how poor they are comparably. case in point, the poorest family i ever knew, who it would be generous to consider working class, but who were pretty firmly poverty class, thought they were middle class. almost everyone i meet in this country seems to think theyre middle class, when usually they would be pretty lucky to ever make it to such a stable position.

    when were taught not to talk about money, yeah it keeps us poor. it keeps the ones who dont question much believing that they arent poor, or worse, that they are poor due to some personal failure. it perpetuates the war on drugs, as since we cant talk about being poor, we also most def cannot talk about how our mom or dad dealt drugs so we could eat. my dad grew and sold his own pot cos he didnt get enough on disability to cover our expenses, even with my mother working full time. even with my father dealing drugs we still lived on spaghetti and generic ramen noodles.

    my boots dont have any straps i can tug on. i can only assume that those worse than me may not have boots at all, with or without the mythical life saving boot straps.

  25. The other thing to remember in this discussion, that I don’t think people who have money realize, is that wealth fuels cheaper living. I live in an odd place, financially. I make just over the low-wage line given, and I live in a part of the country that has a high COL. But I do great, moneywise. I have enough to put away the max in my IRA each year; I can afford to go on vacation, etc. Why is this? Because I benefit from 20+ years of living well above average.

    I benefit from years of good, preventative health care. I benefit from educational privilege that gives me access to subsidized health care and transit costs. I benefit from living in good neighborhoods that have cheaper groceries and good, safe public transit. I benefit from my family’s ability to put something away for me all through my childhood.

    All of these things, which I access because I already have or appear to have wealth, make it possible and affordable to thrive on my income. I’m sure I’ve left a hundred little cuts out, things that wealthier people don’t pay for or pay less for that make it, paradoxically, cheaper to live when you’ve got more money. I certainly wasn’t aware of this effect for a long time, and I’m sure I’m not fully aware of it now. But it’s an absolutely necessary part of any discussion about “cutting costs” and low-wage living.

  26. the talk about the way the wealthy benefit is interesting to me too, as my fiance grew up in a very wealthy family and his family is suppporting him while he is in school. by that i mean they pay cash every semester for the cost of his private university tuition, or like how they paid cash for his brand new toyota yaris so he has reliable transportation, or how when he needs gas in the yaris he just swipes his credit card and thats the last thought he has to give to it, as his parents pay the credit card bill.

    somehow we manage to get along great, despite not having many shared experiences in our past. it does get hard tho for both of us, sometimes i get really really jealous, like when he gets $600 for his birthday from his parents or how when he needs new clothes he can buy them new. sometimes he gets really awful cases of rich boy guilt and self loathing when he sees how i struggle and how our friends struggle, which i guess doesnt sound too bad compared to going to bed hungry or not knoing how youll pay the rent or knoing that you can go without paying the electric bill from october to april here in the midwest and the electric company cant shut you off. but it still hurts him and affects his mental health and self image, and makes him feel alienated from and resentful of his own family.

    its not all bad tho, sometimes i actually enjoy getting to show him new stuff about being poor, the fun stuff, like when i took him to aldi the first time and had to explain how to work the little box you put the quarter in to make you not steal the cart cos everyone knos you want the quarter back. i still get excited using the quarter cart box thing. another favorite is introducing him to the sort of food poor people eat, until he met me he had never eaten one of those weird “party pizzas” you can get for a dollar or so, and those are tasty. ditto on the chef boyardee pizza kit in the box where the cheese doesnt melt and the sauce actually glistens with oil, he had never had that before either. in turn he brought hummus into my life, for which i will be forever grateful. i also get to go to really impressive restaurants with his family for his birthday.

  27. A lot of people also don’t understand that knowledge of how to gain wealth is kind of hereditary. My parents didn’t have any financial savvy to pass along to me, and it’s just not something that’s taught in primary school or in college. I do realize that part of my precarious financial decision stems from the choices I’ve made, but I was never given the tools to effectively analyze which decisions would put be in a better financial situation.

    I went to an insanely expensive college and majored in comparative literature. I was always led to believe that this would translate to a high paying job upon graduation but the truth is, a lot of months i barely make ends meet. I didn’t work to build credit while I was in college and as a result I’ve had to pay huge deposits when finding a place to live.

    Just another reason I get annoyed when people from well monied families brag about how their parents don’t give them anything and yet they’re very very successful. Teaching your kids to be financially savvy is a great gift and its once that a lot of people take for granted.

  28. T, you say “My aunt came to the States as an immigrant with three kids about 15 years ago maybe and worked as a cook (she wasn’t really a chef yet) for Disney. She is married to a guy, who probably is doing ok jobwise, I don’t think his salary is above average middle-class income, and has now four kids. She and her husband managed to buy a house now a couple of years ago. They’re still paying off, but it seems like it was something she could afford.” and then wonder at the difference between the posters here and your aunts experience. im going to make some guesses.

    you stated you are german, are you and your aunt also white? becos as a white european immigrant her experience will automatically be worlds away from the experience of an immigrant of color who comes from a country that isnt so explicitly “first world”. her experience, even as an immigrant, could easily end up with her experiencing white privilege that can trump any status as other, especially having come from germany. in the US we think of EU countries and canada and other countries that are mostly white and wealthy as just like us, so their people are pretty accepted here, especially within a time frame as recent as when your aunt immigrated.

    you also made it sound as tho when she moved here she got a job immediately, not everyone can find a job here. when your aunt moved here did she bring any savings with her? the people posting here do not have savings.

    another thing is you imply that now your aunt is a chef, and you stated her husband makes a middle class salary. it sounds as tho they are firmly middle class. the middle class are not who we are talking about in this post. certainly with the housing crisis and the failing economy here, the middle class dont have any gaurantee of safety either, but the middle class are rich compared to people living in poverty.

    i hope i was polite, i meant to be, and i hope i answered your questions some.

  29. We live as a family of four on about 39k a year in upstate NY and it sucks. We also have health insurance that takes a huge chunk of our pay, which is not an option because we have a son with severe health issues (asthma, recurrent ear infections, ear tubes, and food allergies), we pay over a 1000 dollars a month just in daycare expenses, which barely justifies me working. We’ll put in extra hours, get bills almost caught up and then end up with some expense that puts us way behind again. We budget about 60 a week for food, which is ridiculous for a family of four and very often not doable. I recently went back to school hoping to get a job with a better salary and a more child friendly schedule to cut down on daycare costs, but I won’t be done for another year and a half and in the meantime we are struggling to even make ends meet.

  30. the older and more cynical i get the more i think the system really is set up intentionally to harm/kill the poor or disabled. i dont want to believe this, i want to think its all on accident

    Oh. It is completely intentional. It isn’t possible to fuck things up that much unintentionally. I went through a period of relative poverty recently and found out how much more it costs to be poor. Really. Everything costs more when you have less money. When you really have a lot of money, things cost less (like credit, safe housing, cops are nicer to you and let you off with warnings). When you have lots and lots and lots of money, everything costs nothing. People fall over themselves to give it to you for free.

  31. we pay over a 1000 dollars a month just in daycare expenses, which barely justifies me working.

    Holy crap. That reminds me, in addition to universal healthcare, a living wage, and mandatory paid vacation, we need to have subsidized or free day care and mandatory paid maternity/paternity leave. Which are things many european countries have, as I understand it.

  32. T, you just have to remember that in the US, there’s no universal healthcare, no obligatory social insurance, not even neccessarily paid sick leave or holidays.

    Your aunt probably got to the States in different times, when a dollar was worth something.

    I’m German too. I live on unemployment benefits right now while I’m in the progress of setting up my own business,

    It feels miserable; I get 793€ a month, 400 of which go for rent, and for my startup stuff I need to buy materials to work with.

    But reading all this… in my old job I made 1300€ a monh after tax. I couldn’t have lived on savings for even a month.
    And yet, I get my rent paid, I’m still in the universal health insurance, and my retirement will be meager if things keep going like this, but I’ll have one. And I get government support to participate in a project that helps startups and provides coaching and advice that would cost a fortune for a private person.

  33. Absolutely Peter. Our daycare costs are killing us and we pay a lot less than most of my friends b/c we live in an economically depressed area. I know a lot of women who stayed home not b/c they wanted to, but because the cost of daycare literally ate everything they made and more, which is not a good situation for anyone.

  34. You need tiny perks to get you through the dreary uncertain slog that is hand-to-mouthville. a terrific point. What kind of life would it be without even the little comforts?

    A lot of people also don’t understand that knowledge of how to gain wealth is kind of hereditary. ….Just another reason I get annoyed when people from well monied families brag about how their parents don’t give them anything and yet they’re very very successful. Teaching your kids to be financially savvy is a great gift and its once that a lot of people take for granted. Another excellent point. It’s not just teaching your kids how to work with money, but there are also so many connections that the wealthy can take advantage of – legacy admission to ivy league schools, employment referrals, free advice with investments, a network of people with money to fall back on should you need them, etc. One of the best classes I took in high school was home-ec where we learned how to balance a checkbook and budget our income. This type of lesson should be expanded to how to save for the future, what types of investment options are out there, and how to prepare for and put yourself through college.

  35. Hi! Canada talking over here: There needs to be a fucking revolution in the U.S. over the whole health care problem. It is absolutely-fucking-ridiculous that a family would have to pay $100 per month for health care and that doesn’t even cover the costs of medication!!!!! It’s criminal! And, the sad thing is that I have no idea how the problem can be solved because HMO’s have such a ridiculous amount of power.

    Having said that, there also needs to be a revolution in Canada over the lack of daycare subsidy and the ridiculously high costs of daycare!!! We pay $1080/month.

  36. Low wages……

    It’s immigration, stupid……way too much and way too much from demographics that compete with the poorest Americans.

    Wanna reduce poverty? Reduce low skilled immigration. Simple as that. If you are not willing to advocate that, then you are not serious about finding a solution.

  37. Wow, this is a really scary topic.

    I’m one of those people who was raised in a privileged, middle class family. We weren’t rich by any means since my father was laid off several times, we had no health insurance until I was a sophomore in college, and my mother suffered from leukemia while in high school (no health insurance = big bills). Plus, with 5 kids, we’re all pretty much doomed to pay our own way through school.

    Which I did, but when you’re 17 and taking out your first $20,000 loan to pay for dorm rooms and tuition, you don’t really think about how much that’s going to cost after graduation. In fact, I was told by school counselors and college advisers that school would “pay for itself.” Ha ha ha.

    Of course, my family was just “rich enough” that I got scammed out of financial aid (my mother’s health bills didn’t factor into our income!), despite the fact that they didn’t contribute to my education. Now I’m a college graduate, still working in an internship and not an actual job — but at least I’m getting paid unlike the other poor college students who are basically forced into taking unpaid internships for “experience” in the desperate hope that someone will think that’s great and hire them…

    Meanwhile, I share an apartment with my boyfriend, and we don’t pay much more than $750 a month in bills and rent, but we’re still barely scraping by. He works at an art supplies store and makes slightly less than I do. We’ve cut out the fun stuff, but still … I’m scared to take a day off to go to the doctor even though I have health insurance until the company finds out I’ve graduated. I worry about what I’ll do when my loans kick into repayment in November. I’ve heard horror stories about people paying more than three times their original loan amount just because of INTEREST …

    And honestly, I just think we’re all screwed. The middle class is disappearing and I feel like because I have a job and a degree I’m one of the “lucky” ones, even though I live below the poverty line. Whew. Sorry for the rant. 🙁

  38. Interesting to me how disparate the cokmmments eem to be.. Quite a few people who are struggling and then a few who seem to have “solutions”.

    To Vince: Given that we live in a market driven econmy which just happens to favor those who employ, do you really think immigration is the probelm? Most studies show, to the contrary, that our “free market” economy would actually suffer without the underpaid labor.

    My husband (college grad, still, at age 40, paying off loans but almost done) and I (27 years in my industry, in management) are 3 years off of actually paying off our house. Sadly, that three years makes no difference in the fact that we need a new roof. And new siding and windows. I consider us middle class only because I grew up in econimically worse circumstances. In reality, we have only an illusion of being middle clas. We have no savings (and we don’t go to Starbucks and we don’t eat out, and we don’t, by the way, eat organically because it costs too much) and we hover every month between broke and barely making it. This, I think, is the situation the majority of Americans are finding themselves in: We are a land of plenty, but only for a few. The rest of the population has no safety net, nothing to fall back on, must simply keep going and hope there is something better around the corner.

    My son is a recent graduate from college. He took out a substantial amount of student loans which he has to start paying back rather soon. Many people, lacking any but a financial outlook on life, would ask, “What was his major?” We have lost the concept of educating peolpe, and providing for them, as members of our human society. Now it is as if we must teach our young people to go to school, not for what they love, but for what will earn them money. (I’ll save the “must go to school “rant for a different time, perhaps.)

    We have no middle class. Not really. Not unless you define the middle class by the layers underneath them financially. n truth, we habve only the wealthy and those trying to get by. All those news reports on the poverty class are only there to make sure you, personally, don’t identify yourself with the underpriviledged, underpaid, majority. Every dime you scrape by to save, every nickle you figure out how to save on your gas mileage, that all goes to enrich someone else. As long as we listen to the economis of the prevailing pundits we will all still feel as if we have gained priviledge while still suffering from the system that is in place.

    Alas and alack, we have all bought into this system.

  39. Teaching your kids to be financially savvy is a great gift and its once that a lot of people take for granted.

    Yep. While my parents swore up and down that we were middle class, we weren’t. Family of four, two incomes, total: $18,000. We weren’t middle class. And boy, did THAT explain the once-a-month shut down of one utility or another. A professor once talked about how most Americans think they are middle-class yet we all live paycheck-to-paycheck and any creature comforts we can afford are from Wal-Mart or McDonalds, yet because we have a television and a nice comforter, we believe we’re wealthy.

    I wish I had some kind of financial education besides trial and staggering error. I can only remember three pieces of financial education ever. (1) In fourth grade, they taught us how to write checks. There was a sample check in the back of the workbook that I wrote out to myself for $50.00 — an enormous sum at the time, obviously. They did not discuss the balancing aspect of checkbooks. But by gum, I sure know how to write in ink and sign my name. (2) In 10th grade math class, there was a “special interest” paragraph with an algebraic formula to help you figure out which savings account will amount in the most interest. We didn’t talk about that ‘section’ in class and it wasn’t assigned for studying. (3) I turned 18 and got my first credit card. It was soon followed by 6 more for various clothing stores since I had only been allowed to shop at WalMart and Goodwill growing up (which sucked since I was a size 20 tall). My parents’ advice: pay “a couple extra dollars” over the minimum due. That was it. As it turns out, $2.50 extra on the $20 minimum payment for $7000+ credit card debt does next to nothing.

    Anyway, I look at my budget every single month and honestly, I can’t find anything to realistically cut. I don’t have a cellphone, I don’t have a car payment (that, at least, I was smart enough to pay the $1200 in full on my little junkbox), I don’t get my nails done or go tanning or go to clubs. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke. Sometimes I think I should take up smoking just so I can do that quitting thing where you keep all the money you would spend on smokes in a jar and then after a couple months, you find out how much richer you are since you gave up the ol’ cancer sticks.

    The only things I spend my money are rent, stupid credit card debt, college tuition (full tuition in community college since Daddy doesn’t like to his taxes and I’m not yet that arbitrary FAFSA age of magical independence so no free ride for my $8/hour self) gasoline (to get to school and work, that’s pretty much it and they’re both relatively near), and food. I don’t have to buy any medicine besides some derm medicine which are very expensive but are once-every-year things, so I can deal with that. I’m completely and totally single in every way possible so I don’t have to worry about paying for condoms or birth control or STD testing or paying for dinner or birthday presents or movie tickets (the silver lining in a lonely life, I guess).

    The only thing I could realistically imagine cutting back is the food bill — about 75% of my diet is vegetables/fruit and those things get expensive even when you buy local in season foods in bulk from the farmers market right before closing so you get a better deal. But you know, I don’t feel like the $25 a month saved by eating Hamburger Helper, Micky D value meals, and off-brand ramen is going to benefit me in the long run, what with all the health complications and shortened life expectancy that comes from eating crappy processed food.

    So I keep on trucking, being thankful that at least I have my efficiency apartment and general good health and no children and live in a relatively low cost of living area. (And free WiFi! Thanks, nice landlady.) It is so much tougher for families on welfare or living in the projects since it truly is a case of damned if you, damned if you don’t. If you get a slightly better paying job, maybe $8/hour instead of less than minimum wage, then your assistance/benefits are decreased or taken away or your rent goes up, yet one person cannot live on $8/hour, let alone a family. And childcare, too, if you aren’t lucky enough to have relatives willing and able to help you out. And even if you are able to get into some kind of college/training program and actually can complete it without having to drop out to work, that usually doesn’t guarantee a thing.

    I know I shouldn’t complain since it really could be so much worse. I may be hanging on a thread and living paycheck to paycheck, but at least I’ve GOT a paycheck. But man. That grass sure is greener on the side where you can just skip Starbucks once a week and be rolling in dough in no time.

    (Sorry for the novella!)

  40. Over the past few years, I’ve made between 18 and 24k and I live well. I live in a high COL area and spend nearly half my net income on rent and must tolerate a roommate. But I have enough left to eat grass-fed steak twice a week and wild-caught fish the rest of the week. Thanks Trader Joe’s! I even manage to save some money each month.

    I don’t know why people are whining so much. I don’t want to live this way forever but as a young, healthy person, it’s fine. Living well is all about figuring out what things you value and spending money on them. For everything else, just skip it.

  41. I don’t know why people are whining so much.

    Maybe they’re “whining” because they are barely managing to survive and yet working their asses off?

    Hmmm, so sorry that we’re not all like you due to various factors, Sensible. Not all of us are “healthy” (I include myself in this category, since I have a chronic illness, but am lucky enough to have insurance *and* I’m young–youth is NOT a guarantor of perfect health!), and not all of us can afford to “figure out what things [we] value.” As many others in this thread have attested, when one lives paycheck-to-paycheck, much of that money is automatically allocated to things like food and rent.

  42. I officially make about 23K based on my hourly wage, but my hours have been cut lately and I spend over 300 per month on insurance for my husband and I and after taxes I take home barely 800$ per month. We live with two roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment and my husband isn’t working because he is a recent immigrant and his work permit hasn’t come through yet. The scariest thing is that if the government were to find out that the 23K figure is inflated (based on an assumption of working 40 hours per week) my husband could be deported because I am his “sponsor” and I am supposed to be able to support us both. Luckily if it came to that I have middle-class parents to take over his sponsorship. It would be a lot scarier if I didn’t have that. It is pretty grotesque that I basically need a co-signer in order to keep my husband. So much for human dignity.

    Things should get a lot better once he starts working but in the meantime our credit card debt is increasing at an alarming rate cause how else are we gonna buy gas and food (let alone the high cost of the actual immigration process!) when all of my take-home pay goes to bills? Plus he has younger siblings at home in Kenya that we have to put through school.

    Luckily our situation should dramatically improve in a couple months when he gets his documents. If we had to go on and on like this I don’t know what we would do. I remind myself all the time that a lot of people have it a lot worse and my mind boggles.

  43. @Sensible: perhaps it is simple for you to live that way in a high COL area. Perhaps you are also single. Try living on your income with two kids you would like to send to college, and paying family sized bills and rent. And not everyone being in perfect health.

    I see people calling $100 a month health insurance a crime. That’s what I paid in Japan for their national health plan and considered it a bargain. Until my most recent job, I was paying $639.50 a month for medical only, no drug, no dental, no vision, and I applied for public health so my children could have dental care. I was surprised this week by a hospital bill of approximately $400 for cardiac tests for my wife. This $400 was AFTER insurance had paid their share. My wife also surprised me after sex this week by telling me she’s been off the pill for three months because it had become too expensive, and that she wouldn’t mind a third child. Thank you for telling me now. (A hospital birth is about $10,000 here.)

    “A lot of people also don’t understand that knowledge of how to gain wealth is kind of hereditary. . . . Just another reason I get annoyed when people from well monied families brag about how their parents don’t give them anything and yet they’re very very successful. Teaching your kids to be financially savvy is a great gift and its once that a lot of people take for granted.”

    That’s what the _Rich Dad, Poor Dad_ financial book series was all about. Yes, and that sort of privilege is something that many people even at one of the other top ten feminist blogs don’t understand, where they openly sit in judgment on the lower class for “taking” “their” tax money or daring to have children they “can’t afford.” I wonder who they think provides the food they eat, or keeps their communities clean and running. I have never seen readers at that site discuss financial struggles in this manner (being as fiercely independent as they are, as in the “F— You, I buy my own jewelry” thread), and I very much appreciate it being discussed here.

  44. Over the past few years, I’ve made between 18 and 24k and I live well.

    well yes, if i made that much when i was working i would feel like i was rolling in the dough. 24k and i would do the worlds greatest happy dance.

    I don’t know why people are whining so much. I don’t want to live this way forever but as a young, healthy person, it’s fine. Living well is all about figuring out what things you value and spending money on them. For everything else, just skip it.

    you assume were all healthy? or all young? while i have the young bit down pat, i am far from healthy. i currently take 4 meds a day just to be halfway alright, and that doesnt even touch the tip of the iceberg with my chronic kidney condition that isnt even being treated.

    have you had to choose between getting a surgery you desperatly need, but do not have insurance for, or not ending up with at minimum $30,000 in debt from that surgery between anesthesia, the surgeon and his staff, and hospital stay?

    i chose to not go $30,000 in debt, as i still daydream someday i might actually be in a position to buy a home, and owing thousands upon thousands to creditors, or having a bankruptcy on my credit report, would make that incredibly difficult.

    you kno what else the face of poverty looks like? it looks like my mother who worked from when she was a teenager until she was 61 when she retired. she gets $1200 a month between her retirement fund from being a civil service worker and her social security. her mortgage on her home is $1000 a month. she lives with her long term partner who makes pretty nice money working as a skilled union laborer, but that wasnt taken into account by the people deciding what she gets each month. if she had no partner she would have lost her home.

  45. jessilikewhoa, my aunt came from Vietnam and did not have any kind of savings. She went to school first and got a degree in business administration, I think. And she never worked as a chef, she might have been his assistant or something, but I don’t really know. It seems Disney is pretty generous with benefits for their employers, so she was lucky in that respect. I’m just saying that her husband probably has middle-class income, because that’s what I see as average. I have no clue what he is earning, it just doesn’t seem to be a low-wage job.

    I have no doubt that the stories I read here are true, but it just does not correspond with my aunt’s story. Some factors that people mentioned that might explain why they are faring so badly financially are health problems and abhorrent payments for healthcare and student loans.

    There are probably a couple of cultural and social structures in the US that reinforce this poverty problem and make it worse than here. German students in general pay less tuition fees and those who don’t have a paying mommy or daddy work to pay for rent (which is one reason why they sometimes take longer to finish their degree) or they live with their parents, which would be an absolute no-no for any self-reliant American student. That “I want to be independent” thing is breaking people’s neck. I don’t need a car, because I think I need to prove my independence, but since I can’t afford one anyway I’m also in the lucky situation that our public transportation system is well developped.

    UnFit is right when he/she says that even when you are poor here, there are still many things that you can benefit from and you will not be let down completely.

  46. T, one thing that advantaged your aunt is that she’s married, with a spouse that works full time. That’s a huge advantage—for most folks, it’s essentially a doubling of the family income. That doubling can put you at an advantage in your choices of housing, which can further advantage you in terms of nearby resources (example: living in a neighborhood where there are services like grocery stores within walking distance, or living a walking distance from work can save on transportation costs. Affordable housing in most places in the U. S. means living in neighborhoods with no goods, services or jobs within walking distance (save for maybe a “convenience store” or check-cashing/title loan joint), with public transportation anywhere from spotty/limited hours to nonexistant).

    About that lack of public transortation. You seem to assume that folks want cars here for their psychological independence value. Nope. Most of the United States has no public transportation. In Germany, how small does a city have to be before there is no public transportation? I live in a city of approximately 120,000 people, and we gained evening bus service for the first time in about sixty years—-one route! Piss-poor urban planning contributes to that problem too, because everything is so spread out. However, that same sprawl does make it possible for working class people to be able to live in the city—the more-or-less abandoned, older sections. If there was tighter restrictions on sprawl (in the current socioeconomic climate), working class people would be gentrified out of the city and into the smaller towns—-you guessed it, towns without public transportation or even grocery stores. Outside of a few major urban centers (like Chicago), there isn’t any interurban bus or train service. Folks who live in small towns surrounding my city have no way to get here without a car—there is no interconnecting buses or trains to get them here.

    Many students in the U.S. do live at home with their parents while attending school—usually community colleges. I did, for the two years I went to school (and then decided that an apprenticeship would be my best ticket to having a decent life). But four-year colleges don’t exist everywhere—if your parents live in the same city, that can be workable. They usually don’t. Not too many students want a four-hour (or more) daily commute. Particularly in the winter, which is no fun in the midwest. (Ask me about the time a semitrailer hit me along an icy interstate! Woo hoo!) Remember, there is no bus or train that connects most “point As” to “point Bs” in the U.S.

    Lauren brought up an excellent point—your aunt wasn’t living in the Rust Belt. There are huge pockets of economic devastation in the U.S. that aren’t getting any better. When things are cooking along on the coasts, the center still “does not hold”. It’s easy to say, “well, those people should move, then!” Realistically, people tend to have social networks—-there is very little public anything in the U.S. I’m not particularly thrilled with where I live, though I make the best of it. Moving elsewhere though, is a bit out of my reach at this time—the tradeoff of higher wages (and probably more opportunity/less discrimination against women in the trades) isn’t quite enough to bridge my current non-negotiable expenses (like child care and housing, which are also higher in areas of more opportunity—and sometimes come with a big geographic scramble as housing tends to be located further from work, so does the childcare, and there’s a commute to both to be dealt with).

    In other words, there’s a certain amount of luck involved for those who “make it”. There’s plenty of people out there busting their asses to make it, who aren’t getting anywhere—it’s not out of stupidity, it’s not out of laziness, it’s not out of poor decisions—-it’s mostly due to a lack of that particular combination of resources needed to get over the hump. Healthcare, child care, the cost of education, the cost of housing, the cost of transportation, the cost of utilities (you don’t wanna know what it costs to heat the “affordable” older housing stock in a severe midwestern winter), and the lack of secure employment combine to no good ends. Add on the destruction of community—the social, helping-hand ties-that-bind from all the incessant moving in search of the aforementioned education and employment, along with the U.S. cultural trope of “individualism” and fear of “socialistic” solutions (like subsidized day care, single-payer healthcare, etc.)….

    ….and you can be glad you live in Germany.

  47. oops. I actually meant to say $100/week, which was what someone up the thread indicated…although I still feel like $100/month is a lot.

  48. T: your aunt is an exception. There are exceptions to every situation including immigration and job circumstances. Students choose not to live with their parents for any number of reasons, not just independence. Location of the school, financial situation at home (maybe it helps mom and dad to have one less mouth to feed), abuse/shitty home life, etc. And that doesn’t help adults with children or spouses.

  49. Re: Sensible

    This will be the first year I make over $9,000. Since I first started working at 14, I’ve held jobs from 15-20 hours a week, and even jobs where I’ve worked more than 20 hours a week but only got paid for 20 because they’re campus jobs… I’ve worked two 30/hr a week jobs at the same time and done unpaid internships, worked as an RA (an all night job) on top of going to high school and college.

    I would be THRILLED to make 18K a year. What you don’t seem to get is that when you’re financially devastated, you have to find other ways of paying for essentials — food, rent, etc., which adds up with interest and actually keeps people trapped in debt rather than getting out of it. I don’t own a car but even the approximate $200 I pay for CTA/Metra fares every month terrifies me.

    Many times, I’ve amassed several thousand in credit card debt simply by going grocery shopping. Do I want to rack up debt? No. But part of being “young and healthy” is eating once or twice a day so that you don’t get unhealthy very quickly and then unable to work and pay for those essential expenses. Last year I overworked myself to the point of illness, became allergic to the cats I’d owned for 2 years, which resulted in asthma, and injured my knee. I have had to “deal” with the asthma and allergies so that I could afford to go to physical therapy. And I have health insurance. It just isn’t enough.

    I consider myself very fortunate in many ways. But this financial crisis myself and others are going through isn’t just “whining.” These are genuine concerns. Health care and education is expensive, and those who can’t make it just over the hump are in some kind of eternal backsliding to the bottom. Many of those people, no matter how hard they work, are never going to make it up there. And that’s why the so-called American Dream is BS, and that’s why people are a tad bit upset about it.

  50. La Lubu, I’ve assumed that the lack of a tighter public transportation network is due to the American ideal of individualism and the belief that you have to be independent at all cost. How many people who don’t hold a low-wage job are willing to give up their car, their expression of their freedom, and use public transportation or be willing to use it more often if they had a chance to? Of course, those who can’t afford a car are screwed.

    I’m not saying that this is your fault. I’m just saying, in general, this overemphasized belief that you have to be absolutely independent and not rely on your government is causing a lot of problems. I think this is one of the most rotten ideas I’ve ever met. In my opinion, the social pressure to cope on your own with your problems is tremendous, and changes like universal health care are hard to implement because you’re going against the social grain.

  51. Exactly La Lubu. Every time I read something that sys “well, just give up your car” I want to throw something. I have a mortgage that is extremely affordable and thankfully a traditional 30 year fixed because we bought an old fixer upper in a rural area (where I graduated high school, in fact!). The trade off for that is that we live a good 5-10 miles out of town and no public transportation comes out to us. I would still have to drive in to town in order to catch any sort of public transportation and all we have is a limited transit system that would cause me to miss my morning classes. My husband and I work schedules that are not at all compatable with even maintaining one car- days when one of us is off it would be doable, but his job requires him to have a vehicle and my job requires me to have a vehicle. (He has to do bank runs and p/u supplies from the other store if they run out, I have to do home visits, program plans, ISP meetings, etc…). We were just in a relatively large city for a couple days and we walked pretty much everywhere- it was awesome and I so wish we could do that where we live. We were also way excited to find a bus that you could actually take at times that were convenient to what you wanted to do as long as you could be a little flexible, and it cost under 2.00. We even briefly talked about moving to a city because we both thought it would be great to get out from under the car payment, the car insurance and the horrific cost of gas, but that means I would have to switch colleges, we’d have to move away from our families, and our credit sucks because we’ve had to use our credit cards to survive. We don’t have a lot of options and with how cheap our mortgage is, I really don’t know if the higher housing costs would offset the cost of losing our car.

  52. Sensible- My husband and I used to live VERY comfortably on about 27-28k a year. We lived in a one bedroom apartment, gas only cost about 1.50 a gallon, neither of us had health problems, we were able to live in a less desirable neighborhood than I would feel comfortable in now with my two kids, he had a job where he got no cost meals and I was in school so there were no student loans to worry about. Fast forward to now where we both have student loans, a mortgage, daycare costs, groceries for two extra people (although they are little people!), diapers for my youngest, 300 dollar a month health insurance+ copays and prescriptions, 4.00 a gallon gas and we barely make it on about 40k. It would’ve been easy for me when I was doing well to look around and say “Hey, I can do it on this, why can’t you?” but the fact of the matter is that I have empathy and I understand not everyone is as lucky as we were.

  53. “In other words, there’s a certain amount of luck involved for those who ‘make it’. There’s plenty of people out there busting their asses to make it, who aren’t getting anywhere—it’s not out of stupidity, it’s not out of laziness, it’s not out of poor decisions—-it’s mostly due to a lack of that particular combination of resources needed to get over the hump.”

    And here’s what those (I speak of certain Americans such as Republicans) who can speak from the comfort of hereditary privilege or anecdotal evidence of personal accomplishment, fail to grasp or have forgotten. It is telling that T for example, has to speak about their aunt. Really? And have you ever struggled that much to have what you have, to tell us about how realistic that life is for everyone else? Well my ancestors are all from Japan or the Philippines, when Japanese were so poor that many considered leaving their countries and families to work six days a week working in the sugar or pineapple fields of Hawaii for $3 a month a deal (in my grandfather’s case, 25 cents a day, the equivalent of five Hershey’s bars (they were the “big” ones then), and a car in those days cost $900). Would you work for the equivalent of five large Hershey’s bars a day, or a wage equivalent to one-tenth the price of an average car (about $2,000 a year)? My mother worked three different low paying jobs to put herself and her two sisters through college, because my grandfather was too proud to ask for a loan or scholarships (my grandparents had also been saving up $5 or $10 per month for school), and took 19 credit hours per semester. Also, being a live in nanny for a white doctor, or packing pineapple is the kind of work coloreds got in our community.

    Other Japanese immigrants worked just as hard or harder, but fortune led them to Brazil, Columbia and other nations of the region instead, and they have that modern standard of living despite their personal achievements, limited by the factors present in those cultures. In hindsight, I can dare to call my ancestors fortunate to have gone to Hawaii, a US territory at the time, because the US was and is a wealthy nation.

    I’m glad that most Germans, many other Europeans, and those from the UK don’t need to live lives like that today partly because of the services their government provides. Underprivileged Americans cannot be judged the same way, because they need to pay out of pocket to have the same services. The $639.50 per month I was able to pay for no drug, no vision, no dental, health coverage is the month’s rent, utilities and/or food for many poor families. Their family members may have gone blind instead of paying the $5,000 I paid for eye surgery for my wife, who continues to go blind from a separate condition. And whom incidentally, can be laid out from back pain after cleaning the small house we live in, and cannot be expected to bring herself up from poverty through manual labor like our ancestors, or more recent Asian immigrants like my female Filipino coworkers with two or three jobs, who consider their lifestyles natural (and consider those who do less, or men who cannot provide for their families, lazy).

  54. How many people who don’t hold a low-wage job are willing to give up their car, their expression of their freedom, and use public transportation or be willing to use it more often if they had a chance to?

    A lot more than you’d think (I see more and more bicycles and scooters on the road than ever before, due to $4.00/gal. gasoline. Don’t think I’ll be seeing too many this winter though, when the temps are in the teens—Fahrenheit, not Celcius—and below). But until the transportation infrastructure is built, they can’t. Not “they need to Try Harder” or “they could if they really wanted to”—they can’t. Sometimes because bus service is nonexistant (read what Julie said), sometimes because the buses that are available only run once per hour (thus, issues of time scheduling interfere—employers tend not to accept “but I’m taking the bus to save the planet!” as an excuse for being late to work).

    It wasn’t always this way. There used to be interurban trains that took people from the smaller towns to the nearby cities. There used to be streetcars in every city of even minor size—my folks grew up in a little industrial town of around 20,000, and they had streetcars there. We could have that again (we need that again), but it will take years and a large influx of federal dollars. The places that need these systems the most don’t have the tax base to do it themselves. It’s a vicious circle.

  55. T, I “complain” about your talk about your aunt from Vietnam who became middle class, and you in Germany and how life is for you. It isn’t so for many of us, so one can’t compare them. I could talk about how my mother went from living on a pineapple plantation as a Japanese-American during WWII to being a multimillionaire retired public schoolteacher, but I won’t, because I know how much simple good fortune (and inheritance) was involved in her “success”, and how easily she could lose every single cent of what she owns (her declining health), which would also result in my 43 year old brother and my 39 year old self being immediately near homelessness and completely bankrupt, despite us both being university educated, with full time white collar jobs. None of us even has enough money to repair her old house, much less pay off her remaining loans. Despite being a “multimillionaire” receiving Social Security and a full teacher’s pension greater than my income as a former teacher and a practicing nurse, my mother once couldn’t pay her cell phone bill, and hasn’t bought a car in nearly 20 years.

    You say you don’t understand how educated people can work so hard, yet be struggling so much in the US, despite explicit explanations such as low, sometimes deliberately low, salaries; work disruptions, health conditions, high health care costs, regional differences, or simple high cost of living? Why not?

  56. Seriously, that is one thing that bores me with discussions, people claim whatever they want to believe. It doesn’t matter what someone has said or written, but it is absolutely essential that you project your issues on others and make sure that everybody has heard your opinion, if necessary a couple of times.

  57. T., I believe the American ideals of independence and personal space do affect people’s inability to get by on public transit, but in the way you seem to think—as a consequence of personal choice.

    When most American cities were being built, in the early days of the mass-produced automobile, urban planners had bought into Henry Ford’s vision of a car for every family, and into the ideal of the City Beautiful, where nobody would walk, and people would have beautiful, clean-lined enclaves in which to live, separated from their noisome, unpleasant workplaces. They would escape to these enclaves in their personal cars, of course.

    In the ’30s, ’40s, and ’50s many cities and towns tore up tram lines. Others expanded their suburbs across the landscape, creating vast, sprawling suburban landscapes linked by freeways. These suburban enclaves lacked any amenities within walking distance—people were expected to either have things delivered by a man with a truck or drive to what they needed.

    Spawl is an enemy of public transit—the greater the area you need to cover, the more people you need to serve in order to make transit useful.

    The cities in the U.S. where it’s remotely possible to live without a car tend to be the older cities—those for which some significant part of the urban planning took place prior to 1930. These cities also tend to be costlier areas in which to live. And even in many of those cities, public transit is much better in the denser, core areas (New York is probably an exception to this generalization, as it is to so many things). Even the greater Boston area can be difficult to manage without a car.

    Most European cities, by contrast, were built on the scale of the human foot, making intra-city public transit more feasible than it is in many US cities. They’re built closer to each other, making inter-city public transit more viable and easier to manage, too.

    I’m a die-hard public transit advocate, who doesn’t have a car, and rides a bike much of the year. I live in Canada, which has many of same problems with its urban planning as the States. I think that if my life or career had taken me to Los Angeles, or Miami, or Orlando, or Kansis City, I’d have a much more difficult time managing than I currently do.

  58. There are alot of us living like this, I don’t understand how everyone talks about the hypothetical poor, when really, it seems like everyone I know is poor. (except employers of course).

    yazikus, it’s because to a lot of people they are “hypothetical”, in more ways than one. A lot of so-called middle class people are actually poor, but as there is a taboo about being poor (obviously you must be lazy if you’re poor, right?), they won’t admit it. This results in many people not knowing anyone who are openly poor.

    As the US economy is going downhill, this is certainly changing, but until there is a frank and open debate about these things, there won’t be any change. In Europe, this debate was raised by the unions – who is going to raise it in the US?

    T, throughout your questions, you seem to implicitly buy into the concept of the American dream. Unfortunately it’s a myth, and it’s becoming more even more so. I wrote a post about social mobility in the US that links to some articles and studies on the subject.

  59. I have some friends from norway, and from what I remember them telling me is that on top of universal health care, mandatory paid vacation, and mandatory 40 hour work weeks, they get affordable state sponsored day care, and one year of paid maternity/paternity leave.

    And for some strange reason, their economy isn’t collapsing from horrendous “socialism”.

  60. “people claim whatever they want to believe. It doesn’t matter what someone has said or written, but it is absolutely essential that you project your issues on others and make sure that everybody has heard your opinion, if necessary a couple of times.”

    Gee, T, thanks for explaining your strategy.

    Seriously, do you not see yourself in that? You, it seems, need to believe that your aunt’s experience is normal. You said it yourself–your whole reason for disbelieving or not understanding was that these accounts didn’t dovetail with your aunt’s. There are several people telling you it isn’t normal–telling you that maybe even if there isn’t a systematic reason why she has succeeded (and several have been given), it is entirely possible to get LUCKY. Lucky is not the same as hardworking or deserving (not to belittle your aunt–I’m just saying these things aren’t necessarily under people’s control).

    As for urban sprawl and lack of public transportation being the result of individualist mythology–there’s truth in that, but it has more to do with marketing than anything else. Urban sprawl is the product of the housing boom and marketing by a million construction companies, domestic product companies, and banks specializing in mortgages and home equity loans. Lack of public transportation has to do with the speed and poor planning of the sprawl, but more to do with a lack of interest in Washington for creating such a thing–class privilege, check–and lobbying/marketing by car companies and by oil companies, who got Washington to keep gas prices feasibly low until we were far enough wedded to it.

    I think your general point about the harm that individualist mythology can do is very true and not understood enough in the US (I’ve thought a lot about how it plays into our foreign policy and views of the presidency as well). But

    My point is that these things are not the creations of consumers. They were fed to consumers, and deliberately so, by companies and lobbyists, and politicians who refuse to hear or believe what people tell them.

  61. i think pf bloggers generally target the middle/upper middle class because it’s simpler and more palatable. and it’s what they themselves can relate to. tips for the poor would mean cutting at the very basics and that’s probably not where more pf bloggers are. like doing without heating/air, tv, computers, disposable products, a sedan, more than a few clothes, washer/dryer, meat, pets, etc. someone might get insulted if you asked them to cut something like that and most people wouldn’t.

    i wonder if this blog will try to offer solutions – even though people will knock them down because of course, they won’t apply to everyone. but ideas are better than a complaining blog. like, could a stay-at-home mom in your area look after your kids for cheaper than daycare? can you sell anything at all? can you share cars with anyone else in your area or take on another roommate? can you eat less? can you start a garden? use modestneeds.org? ask relatives/church for help? can you use any or your skills to land a simple 2nd/3rd/4th/5th job? and a biggie – could you find free job/interview classes and try to get a more lucrative job? (not a guarantee that you’ll get one but clearly, you can only cut so much. eventually you’ll just have to earn more)

    my parents emigrated to america as singles with little money, no relatives and broken english. they survived a failed business, 3 kids, 1 war, 1 disability, being people of color and the high COL of NYC. the american dream – it doesn’t happen to everyone but it does happen.

  62. So after reading others’ comment, I had to post something.

    My father met my mother while he was in the army, stationed in S. Korea. When they were married and moved to the states, she didn’t speak any english. After he got out of the army he worked in a factory while my mom raised my brother (middle), sister (youngest) and myself (oldest). When he got laid off, we were dirt poor. Food stamps poor. Since he dropped out of school in the 6th grade, he didn’t have much in the way of an education. But he isn’t dumb by any means. Well, we survived on food stamps pretty much until I graduated high school. During this time my mom went to college during the day, cooked dinner, helped the kids with homework in the evening and studied at night. She graduated with an engineering degree suma cum laude. My dad also got an assocates degree. They did this while on food stamps, working the occasional odd job and raising 3 kids. Sure we never went on vacation, had cable or huge Christmas holidays. But they made it out. It can be done. I’ve seen it.

    Due to their hard work and determination, we had a pretty good childhood and grew up happy and healthy. I’m now doing ok myself after only a bit of college. My sister graduated college and works in NYC. My brother lives in Hawaii after being stationed there while in the marines.

    I know that no matter what sort of adversity I’ll face, it won’t be as great as what they went through. And I think this experience has made me a much stronger person and helps to drive me to succeed in everything I do.

    So anyway, you don’t have to stay lower class forever, but it takes great amounts of will power and determination to make it out.

  63. Blablabla… Let me make it clear, if I thought my aunt’s example was the absolutely normal case and the States were such a great and wonderful country, I probably would be longing really badly to get there, but as a matter of a fact, I *do not*. I do not really believe in the American dream where you can rise from washing dishes to millionaire status. Maybe it happens, but probability to be the one among many others who don’t make is really low. I appreciate affordable health care, good public transportation system, smaller number of crazy warmongers, smaller gap between rich and middle class/poor, less materialism and less election campaigns that are inflated with hot air and offer nothing but waste of time and money.

    I’m out of here. Have fun making assumptions.

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