How about this? Don’t change your name.

161 thoughts on How about this? Don’t change your name.

1. I have a feeling that you’ll get some displeased comments on this one, but I have to say that I’m SO happy that I decided to not change my name. Honestly, I never, ever wanted to actually fully change it (I told my mom this when I was about ten and she told me I’d change my mind. Dodged that bullet.), but my husband and I were both going to hyphenate. Then I started to realize that even then, being Ms. (I never want to be Mrs.) My Name-His Name was going to probably just end up making me M(r)s. His Name to a lot of people. And that I liked my name as is. And that since he was in the process of immigrating to the country when we got married, him changing his name would have been the world’s biggest hassle. So we both just kept our names as is, and I’m really happy with the decision. Even though some people (Hi Grandma!) still refer to me as Mrs. His Name. *grumble*

2. I have been pondering this question for the past month, ever since another of my female Facebook friends got married, changed her name, and made me question yet again, “who the heck is so-and-so, and why is she my Facebook friend?”

   Ha, I have this same problem! A lot of my friends from high school are getting married, and all of a sudden I don’t know any of their names. For clarity, some of them will put their old names in quotes, which just weirds me out — like if I married John Smith and then called myself Jill “Filipovic” Smith on Facebook. It’s.. weird. I don’t like it.

   That said, I can understand why women would change their names, even though I never would. It drives me crazy, though, to hear the justifications — “I liked his name better” or “I don’t really care about my name” or “Well my name is my father’s name, so it’s patriarchal anyway.” What are the chances that 99 percent of the world’s better last names were given to men? We all make compromises, especially when the the rest of the world makes it really really easy for women to change their names when they get married. I don’t mind when people just say that it wasn’t worth the hassle of keeping their name, but I get super annoyed when the justifications come in. I know that’s judgmental, but whatever.

   And like Cara, the idea of being “Mrs. His-Name” really skeeves me out.

3. Thank you for sharing, Cara! I got some displeased comments from my mother last week when I shared my biting point of view with her. But she hasn’t disowned me. Yet.

4. I didn’t change my name, and I’m thrilled, honestly. I didn’t have to change my passport, driver’s liceance, pilot’s certificate, Social Security card, credit card, facebook name, school transcript forms, any people can find me from high school.

   I think I did okay.

5. WOW. I am sooooo glad you don’t like name changing either. I thought I was the only one who grimaced when one of my facebook friends got married (just because she got pregnant grrrrr) and took his name. It really makes me cringe because it is SO PATRIARCHAL and so many women just say ‘oh it’s no big deal’ but you are becoming his no matter how you look at it or how he views it. And it is not only on paper that your vibrant past and sense of self in the world do disappear. The name changing thing only exists because women were chattel and were their fathers’/husbands’ property and therefore carried either’s name. I mean, if you think about it all of us have our fathers names even if we decide to keep them we’re still keeping it alive. It’s better than changing to yet another man’s name though, especially since it’s so unnecessary and women are the ones having the kids anyway.

6. I never once considered changing my name. When he asked my preference my response was, I am not cattle to be branded. I feel that changing of name to his would have been a mark of his ownership over my person. Never would I ever consider relinquishing my power like that. Though our children are still figuring out that Mommy has a different name in time it will just seem normal because that is the way it has always been. Also I never answer to Mrs, only to Ms and I correct everyone immediately if they address me incorrectly.

7. There were several reasons I didn’t change my name when I got married:

   (a) I am very lazy. Seriously, all of the running around tracking down every little account that had your “maiden” name on it seemed like way too much work when I could just not change it.

   (b) Both my first and last name are a specific ethnicity (Italian) and my husband’s last name is Irish, so I didn’t want to give that up.

   (c) I got married when I was 37. If you want to change your name right out of college, fine, but changing at my advanced age seemed silly.

   The one thing that would make me change my name would be if we had a kidlet and started running into bureaucratic problems, which I’ve heard can be the case. If so, I’d probably add G’s name onto mine and be all Elizabeth Cady Stanton rather than delete my birth last name and insert his.

   I did hyphenate the cats’ last names, just because I think it’s funny.

8. Several of my friends and I have gotten married within the past three years. Some have taken names, some haven’t. It was never a foregone conclusion that any of us would or wouldn’t and no one asked the reasons behind it. I fully understand the reasons why people think it’s unjust or outdated or whatever. I don’t get, though, the animosity and the sweeping generalizations about women who do and/or women who don’t. IF it’s no longer considered de riguer to the point that people have to ask if you’re going to do it, can’t it just become a personal decision? And then people can stop asking others to justify something that they already find unjustifiable?

9. 1982, after we announced our engagement
   Me: I’m not going to change my name, you know.
   Him: Why would you want to do that?

   End of conversation. And I’ve never regretted it.

   And you know what? It’s really not all that confusing. People figure it out, even though our kid has his name. People know we’re married and they know she’s our daughter. Amazingly enough, even the children can manage a family with more than one name.

   I’m with Jill. If you want to change your name, fine; just admit that you’re doing it because it’s easier/more expected/he wants you to. Don’t rationalize it.

10. Mnemosyne, we adopted a child and have bought and sold houses and traveled together internationally and have run into a grand total of one bureaucratic snafu, and that was trying to go through security at Schiphol Airport as a family when our passports had different names. Oh, and one trivial episode with the DMV in California, but that was easily resolved. We have never had a kid-related problem with the two names. It’s just not an issue.

11. You think the bureaucratic hassles and confusion and muddle of history are bad when you change your last name due to being married, consider the fact that this is far and away the most common kind of legal name change. There are often bureaucratic procedures designed explicitly to handle it — I’ve run into them before as someone who changed my name for other reasons.

    But changing your name in any other way, for other reasons, is met with much less “oh, of course, dear!” and much more “what the hell are you trying to pull?” Especially if you’re changing your “official gender” too. It’s due to a combination of factors, of course, but I’ve been accused of fraud multiple times in situations where I had to change my name on something official or deal with the conflux of multiple names on something.

    Of course, the difference is that I chose to change my (first) name for important personal reasons, whereas when you get married the decision to change your (last) name often involves outside pressures and really isn’t / shouldn’t be necessary at all.

12. Oh, and neither of my parents ever changed their last names when they got married had two kids. Even a couple decades back, I don’t really remember more than trivial bureaucratic snafus over whether my mother was my mother. (My sister and I have our father’s last name, our mother’s as a middle name.) It’s just not that big of a deal.

13. Eh… I changed my last name when I got married. I wasn’t a feminist at the time and honestly if I had been I don’t know what I would’ve done. My then boyfriend now husband’s answer when I asked him was pretty much along the lines of “It’s your last name, why the fuck does my opinion here matter?”. That being said, I liked (and I’ll be honest, even as a feminist still like) the idea of all of the members of my family sharing a common last name. It was definitely easier to change mine than to ask him to change his, it would’ve pissed my parents off and yeah, I just found it easier overall to change it. Does that work for not justifying? 🙂
    Here’s the thing- I like having the same last name as my husband and I like sharing a name with my kids. I know me and I would feel sad if I didn’t. Yeah, I could’ve insisted that they have my name, but I know that would’ve made him sad. It wasn’t a matter of being concerned about snafus- if that was the case I would’ve kept my name, because that involved plenty of freaking snafus. That being said, I recognize that it’s sexist and patriarchal that I was automatically the one to change my name, because honestly, I do like my maiden name better than I like my married name. On the other hand, I also don’t feel like I gave up my identity, personality or past- I’m still me, I’ve been able to find pretty much anyone I want to keep in contact with on facebook and I typically just revert to my maiden name if I’m talking on the phone to someone who doesn’t know my married name.

14. I’m about to be married and will also be keeping my name. While I can see that there may be some reasons to change names (moving into a new phase of life with a new identity, one sign of many that you have entered a committed relationship, etc), there are too many more reasons for me to keep my own name.

    I publish research. In doing my own research, I’ve seen when other authors go from M. Smith to M. Smith-Jones to M. Jones and back to M. Smith and have had the headache of tracking down all of the articles I’ve missed because of the name change. My name is unique in my field and I like that it somewhat distinguishes me from the pack.

    I also absolutely love my last name. Again, it’s unique and ethnic. While my future husband has a unique, somewhat ethic name as well, it just doesn’t delight me the way my own name always has. And if anyone ever calls me Mrs. His-Last-Name, I’ll end up looking around for my (future) mother-in-law because that’s the only association I have with that name.

    My name is me. I can’t explain this better. I’ve absorbed it into my identity. Yes, it was my father’s name. But now it’s mine and it can represent all of the work I’ve done and the history that I have.

    I don’t have issue with women changing their names for what are good reasons for them. I do take issue with women who change their names just because they think they’re supposed to and/or cave to tradition without thinking whether or not they truly want this new name. Changing one’s name can be imbued with great personal significance. But so can keeping one’s name.

    I choose to keep mine.

15. Oh, and even changing my name I absolutely hate being referred to as Mrs. Chris my married last name. I have my own first name and I do expect it to be used. I have been known to bitch at people about that.

16. I never even considered taking my husbands last name. When we got married both my husband and I changed our last names to a whole new one. We both felt that coming together to create a new family warranted a new family name, and it turned out that through quirks of family history and genealogy we both had last names that didn’t really reflect our actual ancestry. So, we took parts of ancestral family names from both sides and put them together in a new combination. We know that we’re likely the only people on the planet (and now our children) with this particular last name now.

    I’ll say that it annoyed me how easy it was for me as a woman to publicly change my last name – all I had to do was call the credit card companies, utilities, banks, etc and they changed it no-questions-asked once I said I’d gotten married – but how hard it was for my husband. He had to send copies of the court ledger and his new social security card/passport/driver’s license to everyone he’d every done business with. It’s like no one would believe he would’ve changed his last name as a result of marriage, he must be trying to scam somehow.

17. It drives me crazy, though, to hear the justifications — “I liked his name better” or “I don’t really care about my name”

    It’s funny, I’ve always hated my name (first and last) and started coming up with alternate names at a very young age. I hoped that if I decided to get married, it would be to someone who’s last name I liked better than mine, so that I could take it. (That plan was a back-up though, as I thought I’d be a performer and told myself I’d just adopt a stage name I liked better. Thinking about my future on stage was much more interesting to me than imagining myself getting married.)

    That you’d change your name when you got married was never a given though– my mom kept her maiden name because she liked it better (I often wished I’d gotten her last name instead of my dad’s), which made total sense to me. It never seemed weird that we didn’t have the same last name, and it didn’t occur to me until much later that you would change your name to your spouse’s for any reason other than liking it better than your own, until much later.

    Ironically enough, I’m not crazy about my fiancée’s last name (and changing my name just to change it feels pretentious, not to mention, so much hassle) so I suppose I’m stuck. I don’t know what we’ll do with our (eventual) kids though– we’re both women, there’s no assumption as to whose name they’ll take. (And it’ll be important that the names will make them unambiguously ours as opposed to mine (since I’ll be birthing them), to the extent that names can do that sort of thing.) But that’s a bridge we won’t be crossing for at least a little while.

18. When my mother married my father (almost 30 years ago) she went from an oft mispronounced frequently misspelled French surname to an always mispronounced always misspelled and often in creative ways Lithuanian surname. She once told me that when people call her “Mrs. MyDad’sName” she still wonders who the hell they’re talking to.

    I’ve had three friends get married in the past year and none of them kept their names. I’m disappointed. If that makes me judgmental, so be it.

19. Like Jill, I just can’t stand the rationalizations some women make for changing their names. Just admit that it’s easier to go along w/ certain patriarchal traditions, to keep the peace so to speak.

20. This is also probably going to be unpopular, but what saddens me more than women who just wholesale change their name because it’s easier is the sheer volume (at least from what I’ve seen in forums and such) of women who kept their own last name but gave any and all children his last name.

    To me, it is the same thing. What are the chances that all these women, independent of being women, decided that it didn’t matter if their names were passed down?

    ARGH.

    I’m going to keep my name. I always was. I just don’t know what to do about the kids, when and if.

21. Insert post script relative to heteronormative conversations about name-changing conventions.

22. I don’t have marriage plans anywhere in the near future, but I can’t imagine changing my last name. I like my current boyfriend’s last name better than my own, but I still wouldn’t change it.

    Recently I was talking with an ex-boyfriend with whom I broke up because he was not feminist enough. He said he wanted to date a woman who was feminist enough that she wouldn’t make him pay for meals on dates, but not so feminist that she would keep her own name if they got married.

    “That’s absurd,” I said. “Why would you automatically expect a woman to take your name?”

    “I believe everyone in a family should have the same last name.”

    “So you’d be willing to take her name?”

    “No, that would be ridiculous.”

    “Why would it be ridiculous for you to take her name, but not for you to take hers?”

    “Because then I’d never be able to show my face around any of my guy friends again.”

23. I haven’t had more than token familial disapproval about not changing it. A few people said it was a sign I wasn’t “committed to the marriage”…and honestly, it’s totally true, because I’m constantly thinking to myself, “well, we don’t even have the same name, I could soooo bail on this dude!”

    I thought about it at the time, and felt a certain general societal pressure, but I decided I just didn’t want to do it. Plus, I like my name better. Plus, I seriously didn’t want to deal with the credit cards, passport, IRA, etc. But mainly it came down to I didn’t want to do it.

    Then, weirdly, I found myself blaming my own laziness for the decision (“it’s just such a hassle to do all the paperwork”), rather than just telling people I WANTED to keep my name. Apparently it’s less controversial to be slothful than to claim you like your established identity and aren’t interested in changing it.

    If it were all about me, no one would ever change anything, because I do a lot of record-keeping, and tracking down people through multiple name changes is a pain in the neck.

    Please, won’t someone think of the administrators!?

    Although actually I had someone once make the argument that women were lucky to be able to change names so relatively easily…you can escape your past and confuse the Man or something.

24. I also find it disturbing when women who don’t change their names provide justifications (such as “I’m too lazy”). Do men ever justify keeping their last names when they marry?
    If there were a legitimate reason to change one’s name upon marriage, men would be doing it at the same rate as women.

25. This is also probably going to be unpopular, but what saddens me more than women who just wholesale change their name because it’s easier is the sheer volume (at least from what I’ve seen in forums and such) of women who kept their own last name but gave any and all children his last name.

    I don’t feel *as* bad about this. A kid has no name and they need one or the other. Changing an adult’s name seems much worse to me than consistently assigning one of the two available names as the male name to a child.

    That being said, I do think that rationally we should all have our mother’s names. Who gave us our mitochondrial DNA? Who *made* us out of spare parts she found lying around the house? Who did nine months of hard physical work culminating in agony in order to make us live? So I feel bad about the fact that all of my kids have my husband’s last name. There are reasons for it — the first two are my stepkids, so I *can’t* give them my name, as I can’t legally adopt them (their bio-mother hasn’t terminated parental rights and probably won’t) and I wanted all the children to have the same name so the family wouldn’t feel like halves. Also, my husband’s name is objectively cooler than Rogers. I wouldn’t change *my* name because I am an existing person and my name is my name, but when it comes to naming kids, give them the cooler name.

26. I told my inlaws that the reason why I wasn’t taking my husband’s name was that it was too ridiculous to think of a psychologist being named “Dr. Nutt.” But the fact is that I never considered changing my name for an instant, ever, and the specific man’s name had nothing to do with it.

    It’s. My. NAME.

    I’m pretty hardcore about this. Two other things that bug me:

    1. When the woman hyphenates her name and the man doesn’t, as in “John Smith and Lydia Jones-Smith.” I see this all the time. To me it reads as: “He lets me be feminist, as long as it doesn’t affect him.”

    2. When the woman keeps her name and all the children get his name. Seriously, why does almost EVERYONE do it this way? Why do the kids she bore in her body belong to him?

27. I am not married (or engaged), but the idea of changing my last name does not appeal to me at all. I see it as a brand of ownership, and the whole idea grosses me out. I think that it’s interesting that a lot of people change their names so that they share a common name with their children. All of the women that I know that have kept their names and have had children, have given their children their husband’s last name. All of the comments I’ve read here have also suggested that although they keep their “maiden” name, their children have the husband’s last name. I was curious what people think of the children taking the mother’s last name. I feel like that is somewhat even more socially unacceptable than the woman keeping her name. I haven’t made a decision either way about which I like better, but I thought it was an interesting phenomena to discuss. Any thoughts?

28. I didn’t change my last name when I got married 3 years ago, and a lot of my verbal justifications to people was “I’m lazy” even though it’s because I would feel uncomfortable taking someone else’s name. And yes, I am committed to our relationship (that probably doesn’t need to be said to this crowd). It’s something I’ve struggled with because I don’t particularly like my last name because it’s generic and I am estranged from my father. I actually like my husband’s name, at least more than mine, but I’m stubborn. My husband was fine with me not changing my name for personal, feminist reasons but got mad when I mentioned the laziness excuse because of it being such a lame reason. So after that I don’t say that anymore, but to be honest it would be a hassle and I hate paperwork, but it isn’t the real reason. I like being Ms. and would never want to be referred to as Mrs. I hate being referred to as the Mrs. Scott…his last name. Annoying.

    It’s kind of hard for me though because I don’t have a relationship with either of my parents so I don’t have an attachment to my name. On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of taking someone else’s. Children aren’t necessarily on the table, at least not now, but I don’t know what I would do about that. I don’t want to hyphen my name or change it. But I don’t know how I feel about passing down my family’s name because there are some hard feelings there and I don’t have relationships with either parent, so the kid would probably end up with my husbands name for that reason.

    Are there any other people in a similar situation? How did you go about this? Name issues seem trivial but are in fact complex.

29. I’m getting married in a month and I’m definitely keeping my last name. I love my last name and think it’s creepy when people change their last name. Also, if we have kids they’re keeping my name. If they have to hang out in my womb for several months, then their taking my surname, period.

    I’m saddened when my friends take their husbands last names, but honestly, it’s a tradition, and sometimes even yucky traditions can feel really comfortable to people (I’m Jewish and there’s a whole bunch of weird traditions that inexplicably bring me comfort and “feel right” even though they’re morally objectionable when you think of them or look at them from the outside.)So, I try not to judge. And while not fighting something sounds like a lame reason to give in, it’s a kind of wisdom to pick your battles, and I think for my friends at least, it’s just a battle with little payoff, so they decide to just go with the status quo.

30. I’m in a long-term relationship- we’re planning on getting married after college- and I don’t plan to change my name. It’s not because of any ‘ownership’ crap- he and I both know that’s not true, semantic history be damned. But I just can’t be who I am with his last name. I identify strongly with my family and my Polish heritage, and would feel like some other woman with his (Austrian) name. I’m a little sad about it because I do love the idea of all of us having the same name. But if anything, he’s likely to take mine- we both look up to my parents and see his parents as examples of what not to do. I think I’d want our kids to have my name, but we’ve discussed doing away with surnames altogether- or co-opting other people’s names, like Bonaparte or Roosevelt or Caesar.

    My parents actually had a pretty good system for those who value all having the same name- they’re Andy HerName HisName and Wendy HerName HisName. She also kept her name for her career, which really seems like a necessity.

31. This is also probably going to be unpopular, but what saddens me more than women who just wholesale change their name because it’s easier is the sheer volume (at least from what I’ve seen in forums and such) of women who kept their own last name but gave any and all children his last name.

    That actually doesn’t bother me. Like it or not, we are set up as a patrilineal culture and we’ve been that way for hundreds of years (even before we were a United States). There are people coming from other traditions who arrange their names differently, like Latino/as, but we mostly follow the English tradition. (Not even British — English. IIRC, traditionally Scottish women keep their own last names.)

    I sometimes think that if we had a son I would want him to have my last name because our branch of the family only has one boy with our last name (my nephew). So am I being rebellious and feminist by giving a son my last name? Or am I being patriarchal by buying into the idea that there must be a son to continue the family name?

32. Renee:

    “Though our children are still figuring out that Mommy has a different name in time it will just seem normal because that is the way it has always been.”

    This is absolutely true. My mother not only kept her name but both I and my sister have it; my father had children from a previous marriage with his last name, plus he’s pretty progressive and deeply in love—he wanted me to be [Mom’s full name] Jr!

    It’s never been weird, and I’d never change mine. In school I had to occasionally add a “No, they’re not divorced” to forms, but so what?

    Not to mention, your kids will be growing up in an age when it’s more and more normal to keep your name. Thank goodness for people like you and my parents and the many others who are making it mainstream.

33. When I got married, my wife kept her name because of immigration reasons (visa in her name, easier to move to GC). Even ignoring all the immigration stuff, I never thought that she would take my last name. We had a discussion on whether she wanted to change her name, but she decided against it and that was it.

    I never understood how that makes a couple somehow more married. Obviously a remnant when women where the property of men. The sad fact is that most people never question why and just say that is the way it always been.

    What is funnier is that most people assume that she changed her name so that they call Mr. HerLastName.

34. I sometimes think that if we had a son I would want him to have my last name because our branch of the family only has one boy with our last name (my nephew). So am I being rebellious and feminist by giving a son my last name? Or am I being patriarchal by buying into the idea that there must be a son to continue the family name?

    It seems like a lot of people are (rightly) grappling with the children’s surname issue. When I was in high school, one of the math teachers (and Science Bowl* team coach) had twin kids–a girl and a boy–who also went to the school. I didn’t know they were siblings at first because they had different last names. The girl had her mother’s last name, and the boy had his father’s. I thought it was pretty cool at the time (and I didn’t even identify as feminist then), and I still do.

    And, and, we also had an English teacher who changed his name to his wife’s. (I was very proud of my high school for a lot of reasons.)

    *Yes, I was a member; no, I am not ashamed.

35. Alara wrote:

    A kid has no name and they need one or the other.

    But why HIS? Why is it, 95 or 99% of the time, his name? The argument can easily be made that a family does well to have just one name, and it ought to be one or the other.

    It isn’t that a kid gets assigned a last name that bugs me. It’s that it’s always the husband’s. And that the assumption would be, were it not his last name, that our children were MINE and not also his.

    Molly wrote:

    It’s never been weird, and I’d never change mine. In school I had to occasionally add a “No, they’re not divorced” to forms, but so what?

    That’s been my argument with my boyfriend about why it wouldn’t be weird to give the kids two different last names. Sure, they’d get the occasional questions about whether or not they’re half siblings, or whatever, but a sentence takes cares of that (“No, I have my mom’s last name and my little sister has my dad’s”), so who cares?

    He still thinks they’d be ostracized for it, but hasn’t come up with a better plan, so we’ll see what happens. I point out how things are always change, how families are blending in new and exciting ways, and how I didn’t have the same last name as my mom since I was 8 and nobody ever questioned it. Only by living the change we want to see can we make the world better, is my theory.

36. My mom gave me a lot of the usual excuses–it was easier, she likes my dad’s name more, her name is long and difficult to fit on forms, etc. And then after the baloney over the length of the name, she gave me and my brother LONG first names. Uh huh. In my experience, official forms give you LOTS of space for last names–I always have more than enough–but my first name NEVER fits.

    I’m digressing.

    I have to agree on the whole Facebook/Myspace issue. I don’t know who people are unless they post a picture. BUT THEY ALWAYS POST A PICTURE OF A TODDLER OR BABY. I may be crazy, but I don’t think I went to high school with any BABIES. The worst of these is a girl who changed her “name” on the website to “____’s Mom.” Way to maintain your identity there … every time I see her name come up on my searches, I want to puke a little bit.

37. One of the arguments of “You’re just using your husband for his [non-existent] money” is that I didn’t change my last name when we eloped.

    I have a bloody professional history, why would I want something different?

    However, that aside, I am often curious at why people make the decisions about last names that they do. Whereas I want to be very irritated at my MiL for changing her last name when she recently remarried (“for social reasons”) I’d really like to understand her reasons for making that decision when she has a professional history under her former last name that’s much more extensive than mine (I have, uh, a degree and a published photograph. I’m hardcore, obviously) being that she’s a well-respected researcher in her field. (I wonder – is this a class issue? The non-existent money comments aside, she married a supreme court judge.)

    My husband horrified her when he said he wanted to take my last name (becoming [hislastname]-[mylastname] before he graduates), and the whole thing has become such a drama that we’ve dropped the idea entirely. That’s expensive.

    But sincerely – I know the “it’s easier/I like his name better” arguments are out there, but what other reasons are there to change one’s surname? Or for men to not consider changing theirs?

38. I have been married for 33 years and I kept my own name. I never really considered changing my name and my husband didn’t expect me to. We talked about hyphenating our names but he has a long Czech name and I have a long Dutch name and it would have been too difficult. We talked about taking part of his and part of mine and making a new name but we couldn’t come up with anything that sounded good. In the end we decided just to keep our own names and for the most part it has been fine.

    We have two grown children who have my husband’s name. We talked about naming the first one with his name and the second with mine but our eldest joined our family through adoption. He is a differnent race from his sister, we wanted no confusion about their relationship and decided they should share a last name. I have never been entirely comfortable with our decision to pick his name for the children but I bowed to the expectations of the culture on that one.

    We work together but the fact that we do not have the same name means that people do not have to know we are married unless us choose to share the information. We are in academics and he is a at a higher level that I am. Having my own name helps keep my identity separate from his which was my main goal in keeping all along.

    It has mostly been fine. Our families did not understand and still don’t. My 86 year old father still addresses things to us as Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and it still irritates me every time he does it. My in-laws said at the time that it meant I didn’t want to join their family which was true but not the reason I didn’t take their name. I didn’t want to join their family because they are toxic people and even my husband would not be part of their family if he had a choice.

    Back in the day it was hard enough to explain to my feminist friends why I was even getting married so they were fine with my decision. They would have been shocked if I had done anything else. It makes me sad that after 3.5 decades women still struggle with this. I would not have expected it.

39. This was a great post for me to read, as I was just discussing this issue today at work. I’m getting married next year and I’m not planning on taking my fiance’s last name. I was explaining this to a few guys I work with, and their responses were the typical, “Oh, he’s just rolling over for you,” and “I would never marry anyone who didn’t take my name.” It was enough to make my blood boil. I know I will get flak from my family as well, but I’m staying firm. I just feel icky and weird about this tradition.

    I’m also a first time commenter, and I love the site.

40. I’ve tried to talk about this with guys and it’s BRICK WALL!
    Some going so far as to say they wouldn’t marry a woman who wouldn’t take their name. Once we got past all the bullshit justifications, they still couldn’t figure out why it bothered them so much.

41. I think I’ve posted this on a similar thread before, but my parents have friends who let their son choose his own surname at around 8 years old (I’m not sure what name they used for him before that). He chose his favourite animal, and still uses this name in his late 20s.

    My parents hyphenated their names when they married (and gave me the hyphenate name), and then went back to their own names when they divorced when I was young. So I grew up with a different name (though obviously linked) to both of my parents until I changed it several years ago to an older, orginal version of my father’s Irish surname. Now I’ve got a name that’s unique in my family (and possibly the world – at least for a female) and have no intention of changing it again, not that I ever did.

    My boyfriend and I discuss every now and then what surnames we’d give our children, but haven’t decided on anything yet (the kids are still a good few years off). Giving some of them my name and some his seems fair, possibly splitting along gender lines. Another nice idea would possibly be to give them a relative’s first name as a surname – I have grandparents called Jeffrey and Hazel, both of which would work as a surname.

42. If I ever get married, I’m definitely keeping my last name. My last name is fuckin’ awesome and I love it. I’m not going to give it up to become Kathleen Smith or Kathleen Johnson or whatever else. I’ve know since I was a little girl that I would not change my name if I got married.

    My only real dilemma is this: If I ever have children, whose name will they have? A hyphenated name isn’t out of the question (I don’t believe all that stuff about two last names being too much for a kid…I had two last names growing up and it never bothered me), but then what will that child do if they get married and want their children to carry on the family name? Have a three part last name? Now that seems like a bit much to me.

    If I ever have children, I really want them to have my last name. It’s an important part of who I am and where I come from. Still, I know it’s not fair to tell my hypothetical husband, “They’re taking my name, deal with it.” On the flip side, it just isn’t fair for them to all take his name! I want my family name to be carried on too!

    One solution I came up with was to have an even number of children and then give them half my last name and half his last name. A little odd, but due to divorce and remarriage my little brother and I have two different last names and it never hurt us any. I told my very good friend this when the issue of name changing came up in a conversation and she totally crushed me and made me feel like it was a stupid idea. “His and hers kids? That’s terrible! Don’t do that!”

43. “2. When the woman keeps her name and all the children get his name. Seriously, why does almost EVERYONE do it this way? ”

    My current plan is to give any children I have my husband’s last name so that I can pretend they’re not mine whenever they get around to doing something deeply embarrassing as teens. What will probably happen is my last name will be their middle name and his will be the surname. I don’t really care whose last name they end up with, but he’s been a little antsy for a while now about the possibility of his surname ending with him.

44. Lots of responses!

    pigeon, you could change your last name to something fabulous like Superstar! with the exclamation point included. That way it would be distinctive and reflect who you are.

    Roxie, those are the kind of guys who couldn’t handle me anyway. If they are that freaked out about a woman not taking their name, what other unreasonable expectations will they have about their relationship and that woman’s place in it? That’s part of what is informing my irritation: the presumption of whose identity is important in a family and whose legacy get to be passed on. Especially when the female partner is presumed to be doing most of the work at home, even if she also has a full time job outside of the home.

45. “A hyphenated name isn’t out of the question (I don’t believe all that stuff about two last names being too much for a kid…I had two last names growing up and it never bothered me), but then what will that child do if they get married and want their children to carry on the family name? Have a three part last name?”

    The last time I saw the surname thing brought up (I think it was here), someone mentioned giving all their kids hyphenated last names and telling them that they could change it to whatever they wanted when they hit adulthood. That way they’re named for both parents, but it’s not like “Lo, this is the name we have given you and so shall you be known for the rest of your days, down unto the seventh generation who shall need an additional driver’s license upon which to fit their entire surname, never mind any additional endorsements or restrictions.”

46. I find it a bit offensive that some on this board have the attitude fine change your name but admit this and that and don’t rationalize it. It seems to have such a dismissive tone. Well I am going to rationalize it so if you don’t think that it is worthy of your time stop reading……I married very early at the age of 20. We are going into our sixth year now so I am still fairly young but as each year has passed I have grown as a feminist. If I were to get married tomorrow I would not change my name or we would create a family name. That said at the age of 20 I did not fully understand the implications of name change although I was a budding feminist then. I also was very angry with my father at the time I was getting married so yes my partner’s name did seem more appealing to me especially because my mother had a different name than my father so to keep his name was just wierd. My parents were married 27 years and she didn’t change her name because of a feminist outlook on it she really was just a huge procrastinator and never got around to it. My whole life I have refered to myself as Ms. And I don’t answer to Mrs. or Miss never have and never will. But to change my name back to my birth name or to create a family name now (we also have two children) doesn’t seem feasible. So there you have someone who did change their name and actually has a reason after thought and reflection. Stop dismissing others’ experiences because they are not your own.

47. Interesting. I saw a while back where California changed it’s law to allow newly married men to change their names as easily as women do.

    As an aside, it’s name changes can be problematic for gay couples too.

48. Most of the women I know that married took their husband’s last names. I’m not sure, for myself — it would be very odd to change my name, I think, and I’m the last person in my branch of the family to carry it; I’m an only and my father had only sisters and female cousins, all of whom took their husbands’ names. On the other hand, it’s one of those names which is constantly mispronounced and misspelled (though I don’t know why, as it’s a perfectly sensible English name — of the form “(noun)er” — it just isn’t all that common). Given all the grief I took for it in school, I’m not sure I would want to stick kids with it even if I kept it. Of course that’s entirely contingent on whether my hypothetical spouse’s name is better or worse as regards schoolyard taunt potential.

    I do know one woman who kept her own name, largely for career purposes, and agreed with her husband that the first kid they had got her name, as it was going to die out in her branch otherwise, second got his, further kids negotiated as they went. Seems like a fairly reasonable arrangement to me.

49. While I think it’s sucks that women are expected by a lot of society to take their husband’s last name, I also think it’s pretty ridiculous to be talking about other women’s choices in terms of “excuses” and “justifications”.

50. i’m not changing my last name if only because i’ll have already gone through so much trouble changing my name to Lorelei Black (i will be changing my ENTIRE NAME) that changing my surname upon marriage will have made the previous venture and $250+ totally worthless.

51. Neither of my parents changed their last names when they got married, so my brother and I have hyphenated last names. It was a huge pain sometimes growing up, and sometimes it still is (a lot of computer forms don’t allow characters besides letters and numbers, ie hyphens), but when I think about all my name and I have been through, there’s definitely no way I could change it.

    People have always asked me whether I was going to change it, which I definitely thought was weird when I was thirteen. Recently they’ve started asking about my future, theoretical kids, and most weirdly, started assuming that the second part of my last name is my (non-existent) husband’s.

    In the past couple of years I’ve definitely noticed an uptick in the number of people I know with hyphenated last names, mostly unmarried and in their early twenties, mostly in the same situation as me. Last year I got an ATM card that had the hyphen on it–my first ever. I was pretty excited.

52. My mother kept her maiden name. She still gets called by my dad’s name (which is also us kid’s last name) by casual acquaintances. She gets called ‘Mrs ‘ all the time. We get telemarketers calling us once and when she answers asking for ‘Mr M’ (my dad) and the next time they ask for ‘Mr K’ (her last name).

    It was interesting growing up with parents with two different names, who I called by tehir first names instead of ‘mum’ or ‘dad’. I guess I could think of something intelligent to say about how it shaped the way I see identity, but I don’t know that I can – it was just the way things were.

    I do know that it taught me a lot about assumptions. And how you should, you know. Not make them.

53. I guess I’m in the minority here, but I just got married, and decided to change my name. As a feminist I know that this tradition has a questionable history, so I did think about it long and hard before deciding. I made my desicion based on these factors:
    1) Legitimately, despite what everyone is saying on here about this being a poor excuse, my maiden name actually is more unwieldly than his last name. It has been annoying to hear it mispronounced my entire life. Coincidentally, it also happens to be spelled the same (but pronouced differently!) as the last name of a prominent serial killer. So yeah.
    2) As much as I love my family, growing up for me meant growing out of many of the things they taught me- things that I now recognize to be wrong, like their homophobia and hating of feminists (feminazis to them.) The mindset they raised me in could have sabotaged my life and my happiness and I feel that changing my name is a symbolic way for me to more completely shed what I could have become as my old name-self.
    3) I am recently out of college and because of that am not risking too much career damage by doing this.
    4) My husband is great and didn’t have a sense of entitlement about it. He understood that I would decide the way I wanted to about this, and respected that.

    I don’t plan to have kids so that didn’t really enter into it. What I will agree on absolutely hating with a fiery passion is, when people say (or write on envelopes) “Mrs his-first name his last name.” Honestly!! This is just unacceptable.
    What bothers me the most about this decision is, even though I did it of my own accord and have good reasons that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with tradition, people will still interpret my action as motivated by that. People may feel dismayed that I am losing my identity, which frustrates me because I know this is a good decision, and I don’t want to be pitied somehow for a choice I made on my own. I am in a good relationship where I don’t feel oppressed, so changing my name does not feel oppressive. They way I look at it is, I’ve been frustrated with my name for awhile anyway, and taking advantage of this pre-existing social tradition was a convenient way to do something about it, just in time to start my career.

54. In the three Far Eastern countries, it is definitely NOT the custom for a woman to take her husband’s surname (family name). For one thing, the names usually consist of three (or four) characters, with the first one (or two) characters being the person’s surname. Once you change the surname, the entire name sounds differently and does not “match” the following characters(which is your given name). I believe this to be a special characteristic of the three cultures, most likely due to using characters for writing, rather than romanisation as does most of the world.

    One’s name is very important to the concept of one’s self…a name is an identity, at least that is how I think of it. Some people might not give importance to a name, but many others do.

55. 2. When the woman keeps her name and all the children get his name. Seriously, why does almost EVERYONE do it this way? Why do the kids she bore in her body belong to him?

    It’s not a matter of choice in every state. I know for a fact in my state that if your married the kid gets “HIS” last name period end of story. State Law. You don’t get to “pick and choose”..

    I wanted my kids to have a joint name. They said “no”. Nice how his 3rd wife gets to match MY KIDS. *(he forcefully took my married name from me when we divorced)* So, his wife got to tell everyone she knew they were her kids and I had to prove with birth certificates and ID that they were MINE!

56. It certainly is not the custom for middle eastern women to take their husband’s last names, although someone who does not know her name might refer to a married woman as Madam Husband first name Husband last name – well, at least in some parts of the middle east. as a culture tho people in the middle east will formally call someone Mr. or Mrs. First Name, not Mr/Ms. Last Name, as they do in other places. people are generally known by their first names, father’s name, grandfather’s name, and great grandfather’s name, and some people have a last time that was handed down; therefore a child usually carries her father and grandfathers’ names, which make it of course one name different from her father’s.
    I’ve often wondered about why women keep their names here, since middle eastern culture is intensely patriarchal. But I’m glad of it, not just because of all the arguments stated by other commenters, but because even though i don’t like any of my possible last names much (and i can pick any of them to be known by) at least they are all pronounceable to a non-Arabic speaker, which is more than most people can say. so assuming i end up with an Arab dude (as i would like to) it would not only be considered weird and western if i changed my name (and involve possibly limitless legal hassles) i might be stuck with an unpronounceable one. it’s sooooo annoying having to pronounce your own name anglicized in order for non-arabic speakers to be able to say it.

57. You know some couples combine their last names to form a new one if it fits well. The opera singer Measha Bruggergosman did that. And the LA Mayor did it….but that didn’t stop him from cheating on his wife though. With the high divorce rate I’d be reluctant to change my name or give any kids hyphenated ones also.

58. I didn’t change my name when I got married. My ex insisted that I not, and I didn’t want to anyway. Later when our marriage was falling apart I asked him several times if he wanted me to change my name or hyphenate, and again, he said no. It turned out to be the right decision after all when we got divorced and I didn’t have to change my name back.

    Ironically enough, he married a woman 19 years his junior, and she promptly took his name.

59. It is an interesting question about the kids. We considered a variety of options including giving her my name and hyphenating our last names. I wonder about the next generation of hyphenations – if my MyName-Hisname kids marries your HisName-MyName kid, then what? MyName-HisName-HisName-MyName?

    My name is identifiably Jewish and Sam’s isn’t, and we are a Jewish family, so we thought about giving our daughter my Jewish name. In our community there are a lot of families where Mom didn’t change her name and the kids all have Dad’s name, and no one questions that. The only families we know where the kids have Mom’s name are second marriages, so people assume if the kids have a different name than Dad that Dad isn’t really Dad. Our daughter is biracial and adopted and we didn’t want any more questioning about who she belonged to than we were already going to get.

    If we’d had biological kids – especially if we’d had more than one – I would have chosen to give at least one of them my last name.

60. I’ll be one of the few to say that I’m engaged and will be taking his last name. But, unlike how somebody mentioned way up there, I’m perfectly open about the fact that it’s just b/c I don’t want to deal w/the crap from my family and his. It took me long enough to get out of wearing an engagement ring, which to me was the more important fight. I don’t care enough to rock the boat on this one so I’ll go ahead and “keep the peace.”

    I always thought I’d keep mine (even though I don’t actually like it), just to stick it to the patriarchy. But my name is my father’s name, and my mother’s maiden name is her father’s name, and so on and so forth. So that argument fizzled lol.

    And I DO also want to us and our kids to have the same name. (I don’t think this is a BS reason.) We can’t hyphenate our names- if you knew our names, you’d understand- but we do go back and forth about combining letters from our names to make a new one.

61. When I got married, I did what I thought I “should” have done, and I changed my name. It was a struggle; I didn’t really want to, but at the same time I did want some easy marker that would say “They’re related.” But then this was before it occurred to me to question why that’s the way we determine who’s family and who isn’t. So I just added his last name to mine, attempted to have two last names and eventually stopped using my name, even though I still sign with two last names, still fill out most forms using two last names, etc, still think of myself with two last names. The argument I came up with at the time was the same as Sally, all names are father’s names, so …

    I recently got a new job and I dropped my husband’s last name for my professional work. And I’ve thought about changing my name completely, to get a name that’s mine. But I can say, I regret changing my name. I wish I hadn’t caved to societal pressure. So yeah, don’t do it unless you really want to. (Or course, if his name had been easier to spell that mine, maybe I wouldn’t have minded …)

62. A friend and her fiance are struggling with this decision right now. She has EthnicFirstName EthnicLastName, which is lovely and euphonious and also sounds sort of like a superhero. He is Mr. MiddleEasternLastName, and she wants to take his name, in part because she thinks her name sounds “fresh off the boat.” This is a terrible reason, and her fiance has tried to point out that she doesn’t need to change, her name is prettier and sounds better with her first name, his last name is also obviously ethnic, and that she’s going to have trouble at airports (alas) just like he has if she changes to his name. She is very liberal and feminist in many ways but this is a real sticking point for them.

63. My in-laws said at the time that it meant I didn’t want to join their family which was true but not the reason I didn’t take their name.

    Ugh, that drives me insane. Why do people never question the husband’s devotion to his wife when he doesn’t take her last name? I guess 99% of married men out there don’t want to join their wives’ families. Or is it only the woman who leaves her family to join her husband’s? How fucking sexist.

    Em, if your decision to change your name has nothing to do with tradition, why didn’t you just change your horrible last name before getting married? If you waited until you found a husband to change your last name to his, then yes, it does have something to do with tradition (which you seem to admit later on in your comment anyway)?

64. Like Jill, I just can’t stand the rationalizations some women make for changing their names. Just admit that it’s easier to go along w/ certain patriarchal traditions, to keep the peace so to speak.

    I think you shouldn’t discount a woman’s reasons for changing her name. I had always said I wouldn’t change my name because of the hassle and I didn’t want to end up with a name I didn’t like. I also had no qualms about having a different name from my children since I always had a different name from my mom due to divorce. I never got disapproving remarks from family or friends, and my husband’s family is not in the picture so there would be no tension there. But, A) I really do like my husband’s name, B) it is an uncommon (I like that because my name was somewhat common) Nigerian name with a meaningful translantion, and C) I haven’t had contact with my father or his side of the family in almost 20 years so that name means next to nothing for me.

    I know that sounds so incredibly defensive of my decision, but I just wanted to point out that if a woman gives reasons for changing her name (other than it was expected by her husband/family) then she just might be telling the truth.

65. Two friends of mine are playing a backgammon match to determine which of them gets to keep their name when they get married. Fair, fun, no issue about what name to give the kids (if any), no hyphens.

66. I don’t mind when people just say that it wasn’t worth the hassle of keeping their name, but I get super annoyed when the justifications come in.

    How about “My dad beat me up, so I don’t particularly want his last name?”

    Or is that just a justification, too?

    I didn’t take my ex-husband’s last name, and I’m glad I didn’t. The day to day was incredibly annoying, and not just because of the quiet disapproval of my friends and family. They didn’t particularly care, and most of them were more annoyed at the idea that I might change my last name, because they found it inconvenient. No, the annoying part was all organizational. Much like your identity becomes confused if you change your name, or change it multiple times, it can become confused if the assumption is made that your name should be something in particular. It’s absolutely absurd.

    If I get married again, particularly to my current partner, I’ll likely change my last name. I know hearing the reasons other women do this, in this context, is seemingly a pet peeve of several of you, but I’ll go ahead and hold that my experiences as valid, and not just “justifications,” if it’s all the same.

    I do not like what my family name represents on a personal level, and it’s much easier to change it if you’re getting married than otherwise, as Holly pointed out. While I like my identity, and I’m not ashamed of my past, I’m excited about the prospect of creating a fresh start with someone I love and trust, and who treats me with respect and kindness. We haven’t yet decided if I’m changing my name, or if we’re both changing our names to his mother’s maiden name. I’m sure I would only receive the approval of most of my feminist peers if we did the latter, and the approval of most of the rest of society if I did the former. Luckily, I don’t live my life for the approval of others.

    My friends and family will give me absolutely no trouble if I keep my name, and I’m obviously not bothered by the trouble that the world at large will give me because–been there, done that. I will, however, receive disapproval if I decide I do want to change my name, but I’m probably going to do it anyway, because it will make me happy. Were my partner female, since, you know, most of my serious relationships have been with women, and could very easily have reached this point, I can think of exactly which women I would’ve kept my name with, and which women whose names I would’ve taken, based on the nature of the relationship. I wonder if people would make the same value judgment about my “justifications” if I my current partner was female.

    Man, I really hate it when women make decisions and then give the reasons for them. It’d be so much more feminist if they just did what I think they should do. It’s way more feminist when we don’t listen to women, but rather make assumptions about their reasons and experiences based on our personal worldview. We know what’s best for them, after all.

67. My mother and father were married in 1976, and my mother never changed her name.

    Last Christmas they received an Xmas card from relatives (on Mom’s side of the family), addressed to “Dr. and Mrs. Hisname.”

    Oh, did I mention my mother and father are both Ph.D.s? They actually have the same degree and graduated the same year.

    Over 30 years of marriage and there are still people who cannot accept that she didn’t change her name. Even people who were physically present at the wedding, and who know damn well what her name really is.

    My brother and I are “hypenagles,” as Dad calls us, carrying both our parents’ surnames.

    I’ve never been given a single convincing reason to change my name when I marry. My partner confided in me that he always thought it was kind of weird for women to change their names when they got married. To paraphrase, he said he felt like if he agreed to marry Jane Smith then he’d want to be married to Jane Smith, not suddenly have Jane Jones sleeping next to him.

    As for the potential headaches of keeping your name, here’s my experiences:

    -Yes, people will be confuzzled by your name.

    -Yes, they will ask if you are divorced.

    -Yes, a lot of people have tiny brains which cannot grasp the notion of two people being married and yet not having matching labels. Treat these such individuals tenderly, for they are dim and have problems of their own, the poor dears.

    -Yes, some people will rudely decide to call you by a name that they think you should have, instead of using your actual name. These people are jerks. If you are my mother, you will be polite and shrug this off. If you are me, you will stop returning their phone calls and start returning their letters unopened.

    -Yes, naming your children will be slightly more complicated. You don’t get to reflexively assign one surname to your kids. You have to actually think about it. You may have to get creative. Personally, I think naming is fun, so I don’t see this as a down side, but some people seem to think it sucks.

    -Yes, people will be confuzzled by your children’s names. But then again people are confuzzled by my boyfriend’s name because it’s French and spelt with an X in there. Any name that’s harder than John Smith will confuzzle somebody sometime.

    -Having an unusual name, or a name that doesn’t follow “traditional” naming rules, can actually be really fun. People tend to meditate on the negatives, but I find my name is actually a great ice breaker. Lots of people are curious about why I have a hyphenated name, and how my parents chose it, and it can lead to fun convos.

68. For the record, Jill, I know that was a snarky post, but I’m not actually upset with you, not that you’re concerned that some random internet poster is angry or anything. I’m just clarifying that my ire is more general annoyance at an attitude that lots of people display than directed at any person in particular.

    I do see where you’re coming from, and all. This is just the second time in as many days I’ve read an aspect of a blog post, and someone I respect has basically dismissed my existence/experience, without a thought. I don’t want this to turn into some third-wave/post-feminist type debate. That’s not the position I’m coming from. I do not think that my decision will be particularly subversive, because it is the norm, and I do recognize that those outside normal gender roles will receive static because of it. People outside of my circle had sometimes violent emotional reactions to many aspect of my relationships, that aspect included.

    But it really bugs me when the experiences of an entire chunk of the population is dismissed out of hand because if doesn’t fit someone’s worldview. Especially when that person should really know better.

69. Re: People dismissing the reasons that women decide to change their names —

    I mean no disrespect with this, but there is one large, underlying reason that women change their names, and it’s because they are the woman in a heterosexual relationship, and that is what is expected of them.

    I do not decry others’ choices, but I will say that unless a woman who has changed her name is willing to admit that beyond every other reason, beyond “his name is better” or “I just don’t care” or “I don’t like my father”, that is the ultimate reason.

    I wouldn’t care what other people did if the statistics were more even, but when over 90% of women my age change their names and the handful of men who do get written about in national newspapers, it seems disingenuous to me to declare that you, and only you, have made this decision without any of the emotional and societal baggage that the rest of us have to deal with.

    (That, and it makes it harder for everyone who wants to keep her name. If the stats were more even, say, 50% of women change, 30% of men do, and the rest figure out something new amongst themselves, well, that would be super. And I’d probably be seen as less weird by my in-laws.)

70. That third paragraph made no sense.

    “I will say that unless a woman is willing to admit that beyond all the other reasons, that’s the ultimate reason, I have less of an interest in watching what I say so as not to offend her.”

71. I sort of agree with Emily on this. But I must also say that as somebody who has no problem admitting that the biggest reason I’m changing my name is b/c that’s the tradition/expectation, sometimes I start listing the other reasons and almost forget to say that. Not because I don’t think it’s important to state that, but b/c there are also other reasons and I almost feel that it goes w/o saying that hey, it’s the expectation, and that’s fact of the matter.

    Sometimes people tell me that there are no other reasons, it’s ALL justification, but it really isn’t. If my only reason for going along with something was b/c of tradition and expectation, then 95% of the decisions I make on a regular basis against tradition and expectation would not exist. The other reasons are important because they help to make the ultimate decision.

    If I loved my name, didn’t want to have kids (or didn’t care that we all have the same name), etc., then the fact that it’s tradition wouldn’t mean anything to me. But because all of those things aren’t true already, then it’s a pain to me to fight for something I care little about in the first place.

    We have to keep in mind that for many of us, a lot of thought goes into making that decision, so all of the different elements have to be taken AS THEY ARE PRESENTED rather than brushed aside as excuses or justifications.

72. But the fact is that I never considered changing my name for an instant, ever, and the specific man’s name had nothing to do with it.

    It’s. My. NAME.

    Same here, when I didn’t change my name when I was married at 19. My kid is Miss Adorable Myname-hisname. We get a little crap about it, but it’s better, honestly, than having everyone in town think her distant cousin– Less Adorable Hisname– is her sister or something!

73. My husband wanted to change his last name because, to grossly understate, his father was a bad parent and he did not wish to be connected to him. I am not particularly fond of my last name (which I will still use professionally as the first of two last names, like Elizabeth Cady Stanton did, as another poster mentioned upthread) and it is not ethnically accurate, so we considered the “orphaned” names in both of our family trees, and picked the surname of my great-grandmother. He legally changed his name, and after we file some more paperwork, mine will be legally changed as well. (We have to amend the marriage certificate. Blah.)

    But yeah, I’m kind of shocked that people are acting like the whole child-naming thing doesn’t matter.

    My sisters have changed their names (all feminists) mostly because they don’t like our last name. I am not kidding. It is pretty dreadful. Caught me a lot of crap when I was in the military. (Okay, so my door tag didn’t get stolen as much as that poor kid Greathead—I am not making this up, this was a woman’s last name—but it got stolen often enough.)

74. The kid-naming thing can certainly be difficult.

    For instance, my partner really cares about his name. He is extremely close to his father and feels very strongly about wanting to pass on his father’s name. (I know his dad and like him very much, too, so I certainly don’t object to these feelings one bit!)

    However, I’ve made it clear from the beginning that, as far as I’m concerned, giving children only the father’s surname is simply not an option. If somebody wants to name Baby after Daddy only, then they should make damn sure they aren’t making Baby with me!

    So what ever are we to do, if rugrats should ensue?

    His surname is difficult to spell. My surname is hyphenated already. It would be bordering on child abuse if we created a three-way hyphenated combo of our surnames. Seriously, that kid wouldn’t be able to write their own name until they were reading at the college level.

    I wish I could tell you how we solved this issue, but it’s still up in the air.

75. I remember as a very young girl being extremely upset when I read a peice of mail addressed to “Mrs Robert Mylastname.” I asked my mom about it and when she explained that this was how many married women were address I was freaking outraged! (at like 5, born feminist)

    Anyway I told my boyfriend that I wouldn’t change my name if we got married. And he was all offended. When I eventually pointed out that not only is it a stupid tradition, there are literally no more members of my family branch beyond myself and my sister as my dad was an only child. So if I don’t keep my name, or my sister doesn’t our name will die out. THIS was apparently a good enough reason that could be presented to family or whatever. Thinking it is a stupid tradition and liking my name better, is apparently not.

    A good friend of mine who is actually getting married is going through a similar issue, though she has no “excuse” like I do. She was getting a lot of push back about it, and I think if she wasn’t one of the most stubborn people I know she would have caved by now. So I understand why most women do change their names. I just wish it didn’t have to be such a fight to do so.

76. A, could you take half of your hyphenated name and combine it with his? Like your name is a-woman, and his name is man, and any kids could be a-man? Or is it still too crazy?

77. They are now someone’s wife, not an individual with a valid, vibrant past.

    YES. My friend is getting married in a couple months. Her fiance is a douche anyway (but that would be a long post) but is very religious. I do not want to go to a big church wedding.
    I don’t want her to change her name. I don’t want her to be shackled to this jerk. *Because* she used to be my lovely and vibrant friend who I had such fun with – and well, it’s not just a name, it’s an identity. You become *someone’s wife* and you can’t escape the patriarchal bullshit that goes with that, you just can’t. *Sighs* How do you say this when you are supposed to be “happy” for your friend that they have achieved what society tells us is The Dream Of All Women – a white dress.
    I feel I am not being very articulate – but thanks for putting into words what I have been feeling.

78. I wouldn’t care what other people did if the statistics were more even, but when over 90% of women my age change their names and the handful of men who do get written about in national newspapers, it seems disingenuous to me to declare that you, and only you, have made this decision without any of the emotional and societal baggage that the rest of us have to deal with.

    The problem is, the system is only set up for women to be able to quickly and easily change their names upon marriage. You get your marriage certificate, you show it to the proper authorities and you get to change your name.

    In most states, a man is not permitted to do that by law. It is illegal for him to do it. He has to go through the full name change process, get a court order, put ads in the paper, pay $200-$300.

    California is one of the few states that allows men to change their names upon marriage the same way women do and, as another poster mentioned, it’s only because a man sued on the basis of discrimination.

    Sorry, but it’s a bit disingenuous to wonder why men don’t change their names when they marry when the majesty of the law says that they’re not allowed to go that route to do it.

79. Also: I am NOT changing my name IF I get married. And I am thinking I don’t want to get married anyway.
    I am ME. Cara *inserts last name* achieved a lot of things I am proud of.

80. It certainly would be more manageable if I were to “break up” my hyphenated name and then combine that with my partner’s name. Only problem is, which one do I pick?!

    I know my mother went through a lot to break with tradition and keep her name, and to pass that name on to me and my brother the way she did, so I’d want to carry on that tradition. But my dad is a wonderful, loving, feminist man! I am every bit as proud to carry his name as I am to carry my mother’s name.

    I guess I see my hyphenated last name as one name, really, not so much as two names. It would feel weird for me to break it up and only pass on a chunk of it.

81. Oh and if ONE more person refers to me as Miss, although I always use Ms and have done for years. It is deliberately done to needle a Commie Feminist or just lazy and careless.

    I’m about to be married and will also be keeping my name. While I can see that there may be some reasons to change names (moving into a new phase of life with a new identity, one sign of many that you have entered a committed relationship, etc), there are too many more reasons for me to keep my own name.

    Yeah, strange how men don’t have to change their names to show they are “committed” to someone.
    And why would you *want* a new identity?
    Not meant snarkily, your comment struck me as thoughtful and feminist – just saying.

82. Regarding judging other women for their name choices:

    One frustration I deal with is that my partner has said he wouldn’t be so worried about passing on his surname, except that he has two sisters and no brothers. One sister is already married and changed her name, and the other is engaged and planning to change her name, so my partner is the only sibling who can carry on the family name.

    I really, really like his sisters. They are very cool. I consider them my own friends, apart from my relationship with their brother. But I know that the sister who is already married never even considered the idea of keeping her name.

    The fact that his sisters were brought up to assume they’d change their names when they married now directly impacts me and my life with my partner. I wish it weren’t so.

83. The whole last-name problem doesn’t affect me generally, since I fully expect any future husband to respect the fact that where I come from, women keep their own names, even if they’re called Mrs. HisFamilyName in public…. this is mostly due to English-language limitations; in my national language, married women are called Puan (First-or-LastName). For us with Chinese names, the family name comes first, followed by one or two other characters. (In my family, the second character of my name denotes the generation and follows a pattern set by a six-character poem, while the third character is the individual moniker.)

    For both the Malay and Indian populations, most do not have last names, and children are denoted by (kid’s name) [son/daughter of] (dad’s name). I’ve always wondered how that would work for single mothers with no father in sight =)

    If I ever marry a Westerner, I fully expect him to understand that I won’t be changing my family name for him. I already get enough grief from Western official documents who don’t understand that my given name is made of TWO words, not one.

84. Sally, I totally understand that you’d forget to say it. It’s an unspoken thing; we all know that it’s there.

    The part that gets me is when women flat out deny that that’s why. I was SHOCKED when my sister changed her name when she got married. She said it was because, living in France, having a French last name (or at least one pronounceable in that language) made it easier. Well, sure, AND you are the woman. My mom said that it was because our names are our father’s name. No, it isn’t. It WAS, but it’s been my name for a quarter of a century. I think I get to keep it now.

    Anyway. I don’t mean to demean other women’s choices. I don’t want anyone to feel badly for having done things the easy way. The patriarchy screws us all.

85. Mnemosyne wrote:

    Sorry, but it’s a bit disingenuous to wonder why men don’t change their names when they marry when the majesty of the law says that they’re not allowed to go that route to do it.

    Because there’s that big, awful hurdle of $300? Are you joking?

    Men don’t do it because they would be mocked for it. Because their buddies would tease them for being whipped. Because their fathers would be disappointed that the son they always imagined to carry on their name was failing them and becoming a sissy boy. Men don’t do it because society pressures them not to. They are trained from birth that they get to keep their name. We’re trained to write Mrs. Johnny Appleseed in our notebooks.

    If it really were the $300, the couples who could afford to change the name would. $300 is not a lot of money to a not-insignificant number of couples getting married.

86. Shinobi, I understand why women change their names too. But I can’t stand when women pretend it’s NOT practically socially (and legally) mandatory, instead passing it off like some idea they came up with all on their own.

87. Sometimes I think it is unfortunate that I ended up with a female partner rather than a male one because I think my traditional family is missing out on an opportunity to see how a feminist marriage can work. If I were marrying a man and we each kept our names, or we shared the housework/childcare equally, or I did most of the driving, or he sacrificed his career for mine or whatever, I think that would probably be something of an education for them. I think they would see that and think, “Wow that’s weird. But hey I guess they are really committed to feminism. And really why shouldn’t her career come first given how dedicated she is to it while he doesn’t actually like his job that much.”

    But as it is, since my partner and I are both female, I think the egalitarian aspect of our relationship is just eclipsed by the gayness of our relationship. There’s nothing interesting to them about two women having a relationship on equal ground, because they think the inequality is a result of the gender differences in men and women. So there’s a sense in which they will never see that we are trying to live feminism in our own lives and relationship.

88. Mnemosyne, it’s not like we don’t know why men never consider changing their names. Phrasing it as a question is just a method of expressing dismay re: the sexism.

89. Emily, I get it now. Sorry, when I first read what you wrote, especially after everything else up top, I didn’t notice the important distinction. (note to self, I should probably stop checking blogs in between tasks at work…) I do sometimes get frustrated by people who do not at all admit that part of the reason is b/c of societal expectations. Or as SarahMC said, “passing it off like some idea they came up with all on their own.”

    Sorry, but it’s a bit disingenuous to wonder why men don’t change their names when they marry when the majesty of the law says that they’re not allowed to go that route to do it.

    If men really cared enough to even seriously think about changing their names, then there would be a huge movement to change those laws. Even my guy admits that the primary reason he cares so much about me changing my name is because of the flack we’d get from our families. When I brought up him changing his name, he said (quite seriously, I might add) that his father would pretty much disown him. I know his father. It’s true.

90. preying mantis: “Lo, this is the name we have given you and so shall you be known for the rest of your days, down unto the seventh generation who shall need an additional driver’s license upon which to fit their entire surname, never mind any additional endorsements or restrictions.” — HA! Awesome.

    Loosely Twisted: I wanted my kids to have a joint name. They said “no”. Nice how his 3rd wife gets to match MY KIDS. *(he forcefully took my married name from me when we divorced)* So, his wife got to tell everyone she knew they were her kids and I had to prove with birth certificates and ID that they were MINE! — That’s horrifying, and I’m sorry you had to go through that.

    Count me as another who’s not comfortable with the disdain with which some commenters regard women who change their name upon marrying, and the idea that any reasons above and beyond tradition a woman might have to change her name are merely justifications. As others have mentioned, generally speaking one is either taking her husband’s name or keeping her father’s, so it’s essentially patriarchal either way — and as most of these comments illustrate, pressure to conform to tradition is very real and often very intense.

    That said, I took my husband’s name when I got married at 22, and I don’t know that I really had a reason. Yeah, it was shorter, and theoretically easier to spell, but it turned out that people asked me to spell it so often that I just got into the habit of spelling it, so it was like my last name was “Name-N-A-M-E,” so that doesn’t really fly. My in-laws would have shit bricks had I opted to keep my last name — which, in retrospect, ought to have been a red flag for me. That’s not to say that any family who’d be upset at a new daughter-in-law keeping her “maiden” name is necessarily horrible, but it presaged future problems (any shows of independence or free thinking on my part were met with disdain and even outright anger from that family). A few years later, when things started to fall apart, I realized I wanted my birth name back.

    Oh — also, I was given my grandmother’s name as a first name, but always called by a variant of my middle name, so I decided that when I got married I’d drop the first name, make my original last name my middle name, and tack the new last name on the end. So, I had to go through the courts, ensure people I wasn’t trying to scam anyone, etc. etc. As Holly illustrates, there are very good reasons to legally change your first (or entire) name, but otherwise, I don’t recommend it, ’cause it’s a massive pain in the ass.

    And then I ended up divorced, and had to do it all over again. Now that I have my birth name back, I am NEVER CHANGING IT AGAIN. Oy.

    Finally, Roov: Please, won’t someone think of the administrators!? — indeed: I currently work in a University registrar’s office, and trying to match new names with old names without any additional identifying information can be a massive pain. It’s interesting how many files suggest heartbreaking stories, though, with multiple name changes in just a handful of years… I try not to pay attention since it’s none of my business, but sometimes it’s hard not to notice…

91. What I’ve noticed is when I tell people I recently married some peopel will ask “so what is your name? Or did you not change it?” whereas most still just ask “so what is your name?”

    I did not change my name and my husband wanted to change his to mine. Every time someone asks me about keeping mine my husband will ask why he can’t change his last name. And its not that he can’t do it, but I think it adds unnecessary complications b/c his degree, professional licenses and certifications will list a different last name.

    I think I add to the confusion when I send cards from “X & W” b/c people think I hyphenated. I just want to identify our household as containing 2 people and want both of us to be represented (even though my husband has never and probably will never send anyone a mailed card).

    I’ve seen comments here about women keeping their names but giving their children the father’s name. I think it would be nice to pick and assign different names but since I’m not having children not my issue. What I have noticed and been very surprised about is when single women get pregnant, the father makes it very clear marriage is not in the cards, he will have no relationship w/the mother and in some cases very grudgingly gives any time/support to the pregnancy – and the women STILL gives the child HIS last name. In one of those cases the child turned out not to even be that man’s child so I wonder if now she’s going to have to change the last name to the real father’s last name, would’ve all been much easier to give her daughter her last name.

92. I am getting married next May, and I will be hyphenating my last lame with my girlfriend’s fabulous Dutch last name, Texas gay marriage laws be damned. And, it’s not because I don’t like my current last name; I like my current Scots surname, but I want hers as well (I told her after I asked her to marry me that she had remained in the running on account of her surname. She replied that I had remained in the running because of my salsa. Everyone wins.). Also, I’ll get to spread the knowledge of pronouncing Dutch J’s, and piss off a lot of homophobic Texans by taking my WIFE’S last name.

93. cats, your reasoning for name changing makes sense to me. My focus is more on women who are very proud of their family’s history, yet choose not to keep or pass on that last name. As I mentioned to pigeon, you could pick a new name that reflects you. If that is a name from your partner’s side of the family, then great. The only approval you need is your own. 🙂

94. Liz wrote:
    As others have mentioned, generally speaking one is either taking her husband’s name or keeping her father’s

    No. It is not my father’s name. It was given to me because it was my father’s name, but it is MINE NOW. I have had it for twenty-six years and it’s MINE.

    We can’t change the past, so implying that since it’s either the father’s or the husband’s belittles the importance of changing the future and providing options other than absorbing one’s identity into that of her spouse.

95. agg, you can still show your feminism through your actions. As I learned from Jenny on The L Word, not all feminists are lesbians, and not all lesbians are feminists. The latter is unfortunate. Anyhoodle, if you and your choose to have kids, that will be a great way to show your feminism.

96. Our kids are named

    Wonderful MyName
    Fabulous HisName
    the real identifiers are their Social Security Numbers anyway.

    (my nigel alert)
    We are supposed to be a team here so I thought second one his name was an amazing gift to give the man. He appreciates it greatly.
    (end my nigel)

    Because it is hard to assert clear property rights in our family it is easier to navigate some social spaces. I have found it easier to travel with my kids friends because people assume I am a person with lots of marriages and names. So for example, (*class priv warning*) when we fly the kids’ friend to the beach they never ask for parental permission since they assume my charges are all mine from *snort* all my marriages. It is easier for my friends to go home with their friends because of the underlying name confusion gives space to implement normal social trust in a paranoid state of Americans weeing on ourselves in constant fear.

    ILs hate it. Oh well.

97. Because there’s that big, awful hurdle of $300? Are you joking?

    No, it’s the big awful hurdle of getting the paperwork, filing it, taking out the required name change notices in the newspaper, and paying the fees. Then, once you have the papers from the court, you can start the process to change your name.

    You know what you need to do to change your name after marriage if you’re a woman? You take your marriage certificate down to the Social Security Office. No filings with the court, no newspaper ads announcing that you’re changing your name, no additional fees. You just take your certificate there and they issue you a new card on the spot.

    You may want to re-read the comments by Holly and Liz: legally changing your name is a gigantic pain in the ass, and there are a lot of hurdles you need to jump over in order to do it. Dismissing that there are a good 5 or 6 extra steps that a man would have to take to do the same thing a woman can do in 1 step is sticking your head in the sand.

    If there was a huge social movement for men to change their names upon marriage, the laws would probably be changed, but don’t pretend the laws don’t exist or that they’re easy to deal with. I know people who changed their names and it is a big hassle, like it or not.

    And as someone who got married a couple of years ago, yes, $300 for an unnecessary filing is a big deal. What, you think we’re all made of money when you come to our party to eat the food and free drinks we provide, so an extra $300 won’t break the bank?

98. I mean no disrespect with this, but there is one large, underlying reason that women change their names, and it’s because they are the woman in a heterosexual relationship, and that is what is expected of them.

    Did you read what I said? Had I married KATY, a woman, I would have changed my name to hers, just the same. How the hell do you get underlying heteronormative expectations out of that? Honestly, how? My dad beat me up. I don’t want his name. I want my own family, with a new name, and had it been any of the women I’d dated who I’d married, and were my partner currently one of those women, I would have taken her name. I was married to man, and I didn’t take his name. It didn’t feel right, to me. The person I’m currently with is considering taking his mother’s maiden name when we get married. Hell, even if we never get married, I’d still want to change my name to something to demonstrate my distancing myself from my family in that regard because I’m developing my own family.

    So, intentional or not, you’re being disrespectful. You’re not even paying attention to my words, because they don’t support your personal worldview. You’re completely dismissing me, and my experience, even though I’m standing here saying “My reasons are valid, and you don’t get to define them for me.”

    I am aware of the history behind changing ones name period and I’m extremely critical of that system. This argument is ridiculous, however, and you may as well be leveling your judgment against all marriage period, as the entire institution comes from that place.

    Do you realize that you folks are the ones holding that I’m being absorbed into my hypothetical husbands identity? Do you have any idea how offensive that is? If I’d changed my name to one of my girlfriend’s names, would you say the same? I understand that it’s different, because it doesn’t fall under the greater social expectation, but I’m an individual, and my identity and my choices are mine, and I’m cognizant of their implications and motivations.

    At this moment you’re the ones denying my decision to do what I want with my name as valid, and infantalizing me by assuming I don’t know my own mind, and I should “own up” to the “real reason.”

    Why do we do this to each other? This is not feminism. You can criticize the system that makes it so easy for women to change their names upon legal marriage, or marriage itself as an institution. I’ll be right there with you. But, right now, you’re criticizing me and saying I don’t know my own mind. It’s absurd.

99. They are now someone’s wife, not an individual with a valid, vibrant past.

    …Okay, I guess I’m alone in being completely offended by that. Marriage does not negate who I am or who I used to be.* I think the hassle of changing your name and having to remind everyone who you are is ridiculous, and I can go on and on about patriarchy, hyphenation, property, children, etc., etc., but in the end, I am not my name. It’s just a name that was given to me without my consent by another man – my father, whom I love, but without my input nonetheless. I seriously doubt you would be saying that if I chose to go down to the courthouse and become known to the world as Princess Salsa Sparklebutt, I would be erasing my entire identity, and frankly, I’m offended at the insinuation that I’m less of a person whatever I choose to be called.

    *We could also argue about whether marriage in and of itself changes your identity, but if you think that being married reduces me to nothing more than “so and so’s wife,” then the name issue is irrelevant, because I’m married no matter what my name is.

100. I agree cats, I don’t think there is anything feminist about making assumptions about other women’s decisions. Or about the expectation that women should even feel compelled to *justify* their own damn decisions.

     I mean, one could make the argument that marriage at all is a heteronormative and sexist institution. It’s not just the name thing, it’s that the entire institution comes from a system that regards women as property. But no one is expected to make *excuses* for getting married.

101. Argh, I just noticed I screwed up the formatting at #94. Sorry about that.

102. Cats, I wasn’t responding to just you. The post happened to be directly after yours, but I was addressing the point at large, which is why I specified that I was talking about heterosexual relationships and women who change their names in those relationships and say that it wasn’t because they were the woman, it’s because they liked his name better.

     I wasn’t criticizing your choice. I didn’t intent to criticize their choices. I was saying that I find it disingenuous to say “It’s for this other reason” when the patriarchy is the reason behind it all. I could say that I am paid less than a man because I have less experience, or I’m not in a field that pays very well, but the real reason is larger than all of that.

     Am I not allowed to point out that it makes it harder for me to make the choices that are important to me when so many feminists choose something else? Am I not permitted to say that it makes me sad and frustrates me that this isn’t seen as a feminist issue in the way that many other things are? I may have done so inelegantly, and for that I apologize, but I won’t apologize for feeling like the choices of other people affect me.

     I also am not sure I understand the level of defensiveness on this particular topic. Is it rude of me to point out that a stay-at-home-mother who does not continue her education or skills or work in some way would be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to trying to find a job later in life? Is it rude of me to point out that when I have to take my wedding ring off at an interview it’s because of the sexist managers who think that they shouldn’t hire a young married woman for fear of her procreating? Or to say that I am frustrated by the number of women who get college degrees and then don’t enter the workforce, denying the world their talents and intelligence?

     Panopticon wrote:

     But no one is expected to make *excuses* for getting married.

     That’s just not true. Many people already in this thread expressed that their feminist friends were shocked when they decided to get married, and they had to come to terms with that.

     Mnemsyne wrote:

     And as someone who got married a couple of years ago, yes, $300 for an unnecessary filing is a big deal. What, you think we’re all made of money when you come to our party to eat the food and free drinks we provide, so an extra $300 won’t break the bank?

     I wrote what I said specifically so as not to imply that. Right now, over 90% of women my age-ish who get married change their names to their husband’s. The average cost for a wedding in this country is over $20K. I find it shocking to imagine that those two statistics together mean that the reason that men aren’t changing their names is because they can’t afford to. I never meant that everyone who gets married can afford to, but more than 10% can afford the name change and the nonsense paperwork associated with it.

     If there was a huge social movement for men to change their names upon marriage, the laws would probably be changed, but don’t pretend the laws don’t exist or that they’re easy to deal with. I know people who changed their names and it is a big hassle, like it or not.

     I don’t think that it ISN’T a huge hassle. I get that it is. I just don’t think that, as a whole, that’s a significant reason that men don’t change their names. I think the societal pressures are greater. If you don’t agree, that’s fine, but I don’t have my head in the sand. I just don’t think that this issue is great enough to account for things. (And don’t the women who change also have to get passports reissued and new driver’s licenses and new credit cards and change their email addresses and in all their work records? Isn’t that a hassle?)

103. I am sick of this argument:

     <i.But my name is my father’s name, and my mother’s maiden name is her father’s name, and so on and so forth.

     By that logic, your dad’s name is his father’s name, and his father’s name is *his* father’s name, and so on back until only one guy in the chain has a name.

     This argument takes as its implicit premise that WOMEN AREN’T ALLOWED TO HAVE LAST NAMES.

     No one *ever* says to a guy, “Well, you might as well change your name to your wife’s, because it’s not yours anyway, it’s just your dad’s!” Also, although the number of men who suffered physical abuse at the hands of their father is probably equal or greater to the number of women who suffered such abuse, it is very rare for men to want to change their name because they don’t like their dad. Men get just as many icky, lousy, uncool names as women do, but women are the only ones who ever say “Well, I hated my name, so I took the opportunity to change it when I got married.”

     So yeah. It is easier for a woman to change her name on marriage than it is for a man, and it is harder for a woman to resist pressure to change her name on marriage than it is for a man, and that is the reason behind *all* of the other reasons. Because unless you are a man saying “I hated my dad, so I changed my name to my wife’s” or a man saying “Well, it’s not really my name anyway, and I love my wife more than I love my father” or a man saying “Well, her name just *sounds* cooler than mine”… then the reason underlying all your reasons is that you are a woman.

     The fact that you are a woman made it easier for you to think of your name as not your own, fungible, belonging really to your dad, something that’s not part of your integral identity and you could cast it off without much trouble. Because we tell women that this is the case so often, even *feminists* fall for “Well, it’s really your dad’s name, so you’re not sticking it to the patriarchy at all.” Bullshit! It’s your name! You were born with it — it’s yours for the same reason that it’s your dad’s. You both inherited it from your father. But because he has a penis he gets to think of it as truly his, and you have a vagina so for you it was a temporary placeholder? Fuck that noise. Whatever was on your birth certificate is YOUR NAME. You wanna change it, fine, but it was never not your name on the grounds that it was your dad’s, because you got it the *same* way he got his. To say otherwise is to say women don’t have last names.

     My last name is Rogers. I don’t actually like it all that much. It balances well with my unusual first name Alara, but it’s too far down in the alphabet, too boring, shared by too many famous people, misspelled too often despite this fact, and I don’t even like my father’s family, though I like my dad himself just fine. You know what? Who cares! It’s my name! I didn’t get to pick it, but if I hated it, couldn’t I have changed it any damn time I wanted to? Haven’t I affirmed that it’s my name every day since my 18th birthday that I signed it to a document?

     You know it does make me sad, though. it’s a boring name and all that jazz, so I didn’t want to inflict it on a child when a much cooler name was available. And like I said before, I wanted my biological kids to match my step kids. But I just got insurance cards that mistakenly assigned all my children my last name. And seeing Alexander Rogers and Natalya Rogers just kind of melted me inside, and it makes me sad that for various reasons I did feel they would be better off with their father’s name. I wish I could have been that feminist. (It’s not my husband’s fault — he suggested they could have my last name or they could hyphenate his and mine. But the combo sounds stupid and it was really important to me that they match the stepkids and I *can’t* change the stepkids (and it’d be wrong to do so anyway — I think it is very wrong for a stepfather to come in and force children who have had their own names for years to change them, unless the kids want to change, so I don’t think it’d be any better for me.))

104. A couple of comments…

     My mother has a different issue, in that her dead husband’s family (some of whom pretty much hated her from the start), wants her to change her name back to whatever else it was, just so it’s not their names and thus lose any hint of relation…roughly analogous to Loosely Twisted‘s situation. Of course, the state is against them in that respect…HA!

     The practice of family name changes, or even last names in general, is an artifice in most parts of the Old World, outside of some very specific localities and classes. There was a book some times back that was discussing the history in how jews in europe were forced to adapt last names for the benefit of administrators. I forget the name of it. Would like to read it someday.

105. For anyone who’s wondering: in NC either person may change their last name after marriage (or neither), same procedure, $10 fee; same options are available after divorce; infants are not given any default last name.

     I had already ditched my birth name long before marriage, so I have retained my identity, the Spouse retained his, and the babies are birthed I named with my last name.

     Never had a problem, or confusion, or more than a moment’s annoyance expressed by older family members. On the plus side, junk mail is usually addressed to some combination of wrong or misspelled names.

106. As two previous commentators have noted, Chinese women do not change their family name upon marriage. My mother’s Chinese name is still that of her family before she married. As for my older cousins, the women who married my male cousins took my cousin’s last name not only for traditional Western reasons, but in the case of two White women, to show marrying into a Chinese family was something to be proud of and a way to give up their racial privilege.
     One of the cousins who married a White woman happens to be quite progressive about doing the housework and cooking which pleases his wife, but angers his parents who felt he has been “whipped”.

     None of my female cousins who married kept their family name in English, but I know of at least one who did hyphenate which did cause some problems with her parents. This was due more, however, to the fact she re-married a second time to a Sansei Japanese-American and her parents still had bitter feelings towards the Japanese due to the Second Sino-Japanese war (WWII to Westerners). Fortunately, her parents have overcome this and now get along great with her husband and in-laws.

     Though I have no issues with a potential fiancee keeping her family name, I am still struggling with the child naming issue in the future, especially if I happen to marry a Westerner. The sheer amount of racist crap I went through as a Chinese-American growing up, the pride I have in my heritage as a response to it, my father taking a lot of crap as a wartime refugee without parents from the age of 10 and from mom’s side of the family(Most tend to be materialistic, excessively Americanized, and snobbishly elitist), and the fact my father’s side of the family played a role in attempting to help Chinese society as educators and soldiers attempting to fend off Western/Japanese aggression, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

     My apologies if this offends anyone.

107. I changed my name the first time I was married, at 22 years old, because I thought it was easier and I just didn’t want to deal with any fallout. The second time I married I kept my name (I had gone back to my “maiden” name after my divorce) and I have to say it was so much easier! No paperwork, no confusion from friends, family and coworkers.

     My husband and I barely discussed it. He felt it was entirely my decisioin since it was my name (one of the reasons I married him). Most of the women in his family have kept their names. He comes from a long line of strong independent southern women. I doesn’t seem to cause any confusion in his family.

     When members of his family asked if I was changing my name it had the same import to them as asking what we were wearing in the ceremony. It was merely information.

     We are making some progress, albeit slowly.

108. I am sick of this argument:

     <i.But my name is my father’s name, and my mother’s maiden name is her father’s name, and so on and so forth.
     …
     Whatever was on your birth certificate is YOUR NAME.

     I was one of the people who brought up this argument, but I’m not saying that just because it’s also my father’s last name it’s somehow NOT my last name. I fully recognize that it’s my last name, but it is also my name because it was my father’s name. So, IMO, if I really want to “stick it to the patriarchy” I should change my last name to “X” or some other symbolic letter/name/phrase.

     Also, if you choose to change your last name (either because of marriage, for assimilation, etc.), then isn’t that “YOUR NAME” now?

     I totally get your argument about men not having to make that decision or even having to worry about how their names aren’t really their names. But if I’m choosing a new last name (his) and admitting I did it b/c I’m the woman, that doesn’t mean the name is not mine. I just made it mine by signing the paper.

109. That’s just not true. Many people already in this thread expressed that their feminist friends were shocked when they decided to get married, and they had to come to terms with that.

     Emily, I read back and I saw one comment addressing that, and that was a comment from a woman who had stated that her feminist friends were shocked when she got married….33 years ago.

     I don’t think it is that common for women to face criticism from other feminists for getting married anymore. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it just seems like there isn’t the focus on challenging the institution as a whole, like there was in the second wave. And I’m not saying that feminists should be criticized for participating in the institution of marriage. I think we should be respectful women’s abilities to make their own choices. But I do think it is a bit hypocritical of women who ARE married, or DO plan on getting married, to judge women who intend to change their names. Because there is a lot that is still sexist about the entire institution.

     Is it rude of me to point out that a stay-at-home-mother who does not continue her education or skills or work in some way would be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to trying to find a job later in life?

     I guess it depends on your relationship to the woman in question. Are you talking to a friend that has asked for advice, or someone with whom you have a mentoring type relationship with? Probably not rude. Are you talking to an acquaintance? Might be a little rude if you are assuming that she has not already considered this.

     Or to say that I am frustrated by the number of women who get college degrees and then don’t enter the workforce, denying the world their talents and intelligence?

     Is entering the workforce the only way they can use their talents and intelligence? I see a problem if women are coerced into not entering the work force, but I think that there are a lot of meaningful ways for people to use their talents.

     Am I not allowed to point out that it makes it harder for me to make the choices that are important to me when so many feminists choose something else?

     You’re allowed to point out what you wish, however, I don’t think feminism is about people making choices that don’t resonate with them for some mythical common goal. There are a lot of different ways to be a feminist.

110. Great, i effed up the italics.

111. Emily:

     Liz wrote: “As others have mentioned, generally speaking one is either taking her husband’s name or keeping her father’s”

     No. It is not my father’s name. It was given to me because it was my father’s name, but it is MINE NOW. I have had it for twenty-six years and it’s MINE.

     We can’t change the past, so implying that since it’s either the father’s or the husband’s belittles the importance of changing the future and providing options other than absorbing one’s identity into that of her spouse.

     You’re absolutely right about that — it was an off-the-cuff oversimplification and a misstep on my part. [Also, what Sally said about going back and forth between this thread and work tasks — I missed all the comments after about 10:30 while I was working on my own.] And I feel you on the “MINE” thing — I’ve had my name back for just under a year now, and it still makes me really happy to see it in print, to write it, to sign it.

112. Liz, I get that it happens. Sorry if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat. I get a little heated at that argument, mostly because it’s on my otherwise-really-feminist mom threw at me when I was shocked that my sister changed her name.

     Panopticon, it’s okay. I think I followed it.

     There are a lot of different ways to be a feminist.

     I know. And you’re right that there is a time and a place to discuss how other people’s choices affect the world at large. I don’t understand why my choice to discuss this particular topic is so hurtful. I have girl friends who have changed their last names upon marriage. I understand that it was their choice, and that’s fine. I don’t judge their choice. It is not the choice I will make, but it’s theirs.

     I just can’t deny that it makes it harder for me that everyone else seems to be doing it the same way. I don’t mean to judge, I mean to say come on! Let’s do this together, let’s change this together. Let’s make it so that it’s more like even thirds with who changes (man changes, woman changes, they both change).

     It seems to me like this topic in particular gets people really riled up, on both sides.

113. Also, Panopticon, part of the reason I am choosing to get married it so that I can try to change it from the inside. I’m willingly becoming a part of this institution so that I can change what that institution looks like. I don’t know if that matters, but it was a conscious choice on my part.

114. I got married at 21 and I changed my name. I was young and didn’t really have any kind of work/professional history under my own name and I could make all sorts of justifications as to why I did it, but honestly, that’s just what you did when you got married and it didn’t ever occur to me not to do it.

     Now, I kind of wish I hadn’t, but it’s really too late at this point. I know that the husband wouldn’t have been at all upset if I had kept my name when we got married, but I also know that if I changed it back now, after 10 years of happy marriage, he’d probably feel rejected that I switched back. Plus, it’s a huge hassle and all that.

     However, I do kind of resent the notion that just because I changed my name that I lost all identity after I got married. I certainly didn’t stop being me just because I went from kj to ks–I’m still a loudmouthed, opinionated, feminist, etc., and in fact, I’m probably more so now than I was then, what with all the growing up that happens in the years from 21 to 31.

115. Another thing no one seems to take into consideration is racism within this issue and it is a personal one to me. My first post was already so long that I left it out but really shouldn’t have. I am white and my partner is black so our children are biracial. Societal view for a interracial couple defualt is not marriage it is “baby mama” status I get assumed I’m not married a lot. As I stated above I did take his name but also I am a Ms. So once again there is privilege to be had even in considering name changing and especially if my children also had different names than therefore I am a slut with two “baby daddies”. Its always a fine line of how I handle talking about my partner when in public because I don’t want to show my heteroprivlidge too much but then again I don’t want people to get a reinforced attitude about interracial relationships not being able to work out or that a black man doesn’t raise his children. Oh the social stigmas fucking suck.

116. It seems to me like this topic in particular gets people really riled up, on both sides.

     Emily, I agree. I think it’s especially difficult for women who identify as feminists. I couldn’t imagine a group of men, even feminist men, having such a heated discussion about why they chose to either keep or change their names. I think it would go like this:

     “I kept my name.”

     “So did I.”

     “Why would I change my name?”

     “Well, I hyphenated my name to reflect our family’s multicultural background. So now I’m Ludwig Suarez-McElwain.”

     “That’s cool, dude.”

     “Maybe I’ll change my name from Pierre Belvedere to Pierre Chung when I get married. Still deciding. Still haven’t bought the ring.”

     “You totally should. Lolz!”

117. My husband and I entertained the idea of him taking my name, but nixed it because he is an only child.

     So far the only people who have issues with my keeping my maiden name are my mother’s side of the family. Every card, present, check, whatever, I get from them are addressed to Mrs. Husband’s Last Name. Honestly, it upsets my husband more than it does me. I just shrug. He gets pissed about how they aren’t respecting my decision.

118. My oldest sister kept her last name when she got married, and is one of the ones who also gave her last name to her daughter. Her agreement with her husband was that since he had two kids from his previous marriage with his last name, she got to carry hers on now.

     Only complication is that they gave their daughter quite the middle name. It’s a regular middle name combined with his last name, his last name being about 10 characters and hard to spell and pronounce. That’s the only part that bugged anyone in my family is that it’s going to take her a very long time to learn to spell her entire middle name. When my mother was going nuts about that, I pointed out that it’s not like she’ll be writing it all the time anyhow and for most purposes she could probably cut it short and no one would care.

119. But I do think it is a bit hypocritical of women who ARE married, or DO plan on getting married, to judge women who intend to change their names. Because there is a lot that is still sexist about the entire institution.

     This makes no sense to me.

     There are enormous legal advantages to getting married if you’re gonna live with a man and share money with him anyway. There are no legal advantages to changing your name. The sexism inherent in the institution of marriage is not there *legally* — it is there historically and culturally. It’s possible to fight back against it (among other things, by not changing your name!) There’s nothing *legal* about marriage as it currently stands that says women have to become second-class citizens when they marry; that’s just how it usually ends up. And if you’re planning on sleeping with a man and having kids with him, the sexism will occur *anyway* if you don’t fight back.

     In other words, there’s nothing about the legal institution of marriage as it exists today in America that mandates a lower status for women. There’s something about it culturally, but those same cultural forces come into play every time you have sex with a man, every time you have a long-term relationship with a man, and every time you have children. So if those things are going to happen anyway, marriage offers you legal protections and does not make your situation worse vis-a-vis sexism.

     However, changing your name offers no legal protections, is a hassle, has been known to prevent women from being able to vote (check out Arizona’s implementation of Real ID), and is *not* something that’s going to happen anyway and have to be fought against if you end up in a relationship with a man.

     It’s not *marriage* that’s fraught with sexism, it’s heterosexuality, particularly heterosexual child-bearing and rearing. Marriage itself has been legally transformed into an egalitarian institution; that’s why gays want it! If it automatically defined one of the partners as inferior I don’t think gay people would fight for it so hard. It’s not that I don’t recognize that marriage has historically been a tool of oppressing women, but it isn’t today; the cultural forces that cause the oppression work just as well when you’re not legally married but living as if you are. Whereas changing your name continues to be sexist.

     So no. I don’t consider it hypocritical at all. This is kind of like arguing that it’s hypocritical for a feminist to take another woman to task for planning to stay at home with her kids and give up her career, because the feminist was planning on having children at all. (In fact, given that there are sometimes great benefits to staying at home for a short period of time, and even benefits to be had from staying home for an entire childhood, but no substantial benefits from changing your name, even this is a flawed analogy, but it’s the best I can come up with.)

120. I can’t seem to shut up about this topic, but I have conversations about this like every other day lately, so I have a lot to say!

     As Courtney pointed out, racism does get into the mix. My guy is also black (I’m not), and early on part of the discussion about what we were going to do with our last names centered around the fact that his name is, after all, a legacy of racism. We both looked at each other awkwardly when we realized this little detail in the bigger picture.

     While my guy doesn’t feel this way, I do know other women who have refused to take their fiance’s names because of that, or men who have wanted to change their names because of it. The parents of a friend of mine changed their first and last names when they were married to African names (they had the privilege of knowing roughly where some of their ancestors were originally from) and gave their children African names as well. He hates his name and wants to change it back to something “normal.”

     *sigh* Race, class, and gender, how often they intersect.

121. “part of the reason I am choosing to get married it so that I can try to change it from the inside. I’m willingly becoming a part of this institution so that I can change what that institution looks like.”

     Interesting. Good luck to you.

     In Japan, a married couple is legally required to share a last name. Not surprisingly, it is the male’s in near 100% of cases. (In the remainder, there is a definite incentive for the male to change his name, such as being adopted into the wife’s family owned business and being groomed as the father’s successor – that’s an issue in itself.)

     Married to a foreigner with little legal status, my Japanese wife was not required to change her last name. Keeping her maiden name was convenient. As the oldest child, keeping her maiden name was also a tribute to her own father. I agreed, and considered having separate names a novelty, and quite revolutionary in Japan.

     Unfortunately, Japanese law also requires children to share their mother’s last name (paternity is legally tenuous in Japan, though motherhood is never in question). My wife did not want our children to have a last name different from my own, as she considered that some sort of stigma, like being born out of wedlock. I did not agree. However, I did not keep her from legally changing her last name to match mine, to have our children’s last names also match mine (i.e., hers).

     Now living in the US, I suggested she have another alternative on her US forms of identification – she can use her maiden name as her “middle” name in the US (Japanese by law, have only first and last names), and be like one of those hyphenated named celebrity married women. She quickly agreed. In fact, I pointed out that in the US, she can legally use any alias she wished. She liked it.

122. I have never even considered changing my last name, but I’m really torn about what to do when I have kids, assuming there’s another person with a stake in the matter. I am generation 17 of my father’s family in this country; it’s a big, rootsey family with a lot of history, good and bad, and the idea of cutting that off – especially if my children’s father was named, say, Smith or Baker or Johnson – bothers me. (In fairness, my middle name is my mother’s last name, and I know all her genealogy too).

     One of my professors made a deal with her husband that the daughters would be named after her family and the sons would be named after his. She had two daughters, and apparently went “a deal’s a deal”, because they both have her surname.

123. I’m halfway through changing my name for other reasons. If I ever had any doubt, it’s convinced me that in the unlikely event of my getting married, I’m keeping what I’ve got.

     One thing that bugs me is that I keep phoning utility companies to notify them of the change and getting told “You’ll need to send us a copy of your marriage certificate before we can change it.” So now getting married is the only reason to change your name?

124. The fact that you are a woman made it easier for you to think of your name as not your own, fungible, belonging really to your dad, something that’s not part of your integral identity and you could cast it off without much trouble.

     No, it fucking didn’t, in fact, so don’t make assumptions about me. My dad spent 25 years telling me that I would be the one to carry on his name, and will be incredibly hurt and angry when I do change it. My relationship with my dad, and with our name, and everything that implies is something I’ve agonized over, because of a lot of very personal things, and because of my feminism.

     This is my entire point. Critique whatever social institutions you want. I will likely agree with you. All of you, stop assuming you know what’s in my head. Stop assuming you know what’s in any woman’s head, or what her experiences are.

     It’s fine if you make the point that a woman who stays at home and raises children may or may not be contributing to a larger societal problem. That’s great. I agree with you.

     What’s upsetting, to me, is the idea that you would assume that you know better than she does why she’s doing it. And “The Patriarchy” as a reason is just as fucked up, to me, as any other excuse given that removes women’s intellectual autonomy. That’s what I’m upset about. Not who thinks what about my name, or what my name will be. I’m upset that I’m seeing feminist women I respect, in a forum I respect, dismiss me, my feelings, my thoughts, my experiences, my opinions, my struggles, my trauma, me because golly, I probably just don’t know any better.

     Emily, to clarify, I do appreciate where you’re coming from. If my tone is harsh, it’s unintentional. I’m very blunt, and abrupt, especially in this medium. If I’ve been rude, I apologize.

     Again, the point I’m trying to make is less about this specific debate, and more about me seeing feminist women infantalize other women. I see it constantly, and I think today it just made my brain explode.

125. My boyfriend and I have debated hyphenating and compounding names, but we keep coming back to just keeping our respective names. Fortunately this is not an issue FOR us, although I expect to get some minor flak from relatives. (His mom doesn’t care–she’s been divorced at least once, maybe twice.) We thought we might give the kids alternating double last names though. Kid one would be FirstName Middle LastMine LastHis and kid two would be FirstName Middle LastHis LastMine, non-hyphenated.

     At first we figured well, what will the kids do when they get married and have to deal with the name decision. But you know what? Not OUR choice to make. They’ll figure it out for themselves.

126. This conversation never ceases to amaze me.

     We live in a patriarchal society. Every damn day each and everyone of us, regardless of gender, makes decisions based on what will get us through the day.

     I woke up this morning and put on 4 inch heels. Do I like heels? Do they make me feel empowered? Do I get an iota of personal satisfaction out of wearing them? Not one tiny little bit. Not one. I put them on because part of my job is looking “professional” as defined by patriarchal asshats that I cannot argue with every minute of every day.

     I got married. Was marriage necessary? Did it make our relationship stronger? Did it mean that I became “just a wife”? Nope. It didn’t mean a damn thing. We did it because we were sick and tired of the shit we got from patriarchal asshats that we didn’t want to argue with every minute of every day.

     I kept my name and he kept his. I let people call me Ms. and even Mrs. Hisname (assuming they can pronounce it) and he lets people call him Mr. Myname (which they can easily pronounce). Does it mean that I’m owned by him? Does it mean he’s owned by me? No. It’s just words to us. And we generally don’t have to argue with the patriarchy because they can’t tell the difference.

     I get that for some people a NAME has meaning and importance. It’s a symbol of independence which you value above other things. That’s fantastic for you.

     For other people a name might just be a word, or a symbol of something that provides negative meaning. Or they may just think that arguing with patriarchal asshats all day about it isn’t worth the effort. At the end of the day that is their choice and they should base it on their values.

     But this entire conversation is about you projecting your values onto other people and then judging their actions as “disappointing” based on your value system.

     If you want to critique the system, if you want to argue that a woman changing her name is the default expectation is evil, if you want to change the laws so that men can easily change their names upon marriage (or generally), I am there with you. I will rant, rave, petition, donate, call, and march. But I’m not going along with criticizing women for making decisions that do not cause anyone direct harm just because they don’t fit your value system.

127. Pixelfish, I know some folks who have non-hyphenated double last names and it is a royal pain in their asses. They really recommend hyphenation, no matter whose is first.

128. “So now getting married is the only reason to change your name?”

     Well, it’s the only 100% patriarchy-approved free-pass reason. If you’re changing it for any other reason, it’s kind of like deciding not to have children–everybody and their brother feels entitled to get up in your business or take it personally if they feel like it. It’s one reason I do wonder if it’s not that guys don’t want to change their names–as someone pointed out upthread, men have traumatizing relationships with their blood relatives and crappy last names at a rate that’s got to be at least approaching women’s–but that they don’t have society offering an unquestionable escape hatch in that department. I wonder what the rates would be if the respective pressures were removed from the decision-making process.

     I’ve mostly been ruminating on it since another comment made me remember what an absolute fit my mother pitched when I talked about taking her maiden name when I turned 18. The acceptable options laid out were either do nothing or take my step-father’s name, lest her parents be weirded out and my step-father and his family feel Deeply, Gravely Insulted. You’d have thought I’d announced my decision to pursue a career in puppy-strangling.

129. Emily said:

     This is also probably going to be unpopular, but what saddens me more than women who just wholesale change their name because it’s easier is the sheer volume (at least from what I’ve seen in forums and such) of women who kept their own last name but gave any and all children his last name.

     What I hate the most is when:

     1.) A man gets married, wife changes name, kids get his last name….they get divorced, man marries new woman, she changes her name and their kids get his last name.

     He LITERALLY has claimed ownership of all of these people. On paper, in speech, whatever. He has owned two wives and however many children and until each of them die they will carry his name with no questions about it.

     2.) When women change their name every time they get married.

     3.) The fact that children (even if the mom kept her name) are named after their father.

     and 4.) as an afterthought….. the fact that being a “john smith JR.” as a son even exists.

     The most logical way to do things is for men to either keep their names or change to their wives names and for any children born to be named with their mother’s last name.

     So, basically the exact opposite way it is now.

130. What a great and productive discussion–and really very timely, in my case.

     I’m currently on my second marriage. At work, I’m hyphenating because it’s an ultra-conservative environment (plus, my husband’s name is pretty), but that’s it. I’m an immigrant, and it’s more than daunting to deal with the BCIS to change names on my passport, let along my immigration paperwork. PLUS, I have my grandmother’s last name because my mom never married. This also happens to be my grandfather’s last name, whom I loved dearly. Case closed. I’m me, funky German lastname and all.

     HOWEVER, yes, there’s this thing about the kids. I’m pregnant and would like to prevent my kid to have the same last name as the kid Mr. Husband had with his first wife. Hyphenating is iffy, and since Mr. Husband’s a well-known academic, changing his name is out. Luckily enough, there’s still enough time left (December) to think this through with all its implications. The discussion above, which I forwarded to Mr. Husband, has certainly helped bring a lot of good food-for-thought to our family table.

131. charlotte, I’m glad we could help. 🙂

132. My partner and I simply gave our daughter her own last name, with each of us retaining our own names. We don’t attach too much importance to family names, other than recognizing which side of the family she might have gotten whatever traits she exhibits. (Blue eyes and blonde hair? That comes from my maternal side, since we are all Germanic blondes. The fact that she is gonna be wee, from both sides.)

     So far it has caused no bureaucratic difficulties, and when we filled out her birth certificate the staffer that did it didn’t even blink an eye. And my daughter thinks it’s neat that she has her own name.

     However, when I worked at the clinic, we required parental notification for a minor to get an abortion. One of the easiest ways for that to happen was a parent to come along with ID to establish proof of relationship. Sometimes, due to assorted name changes a paper trail must be established to prove relationship. So that is, at once, an argument for having the same last name as your child, having a different one that you never change, or just scrapping parental notification altogether. I think the last one is my preferred choice, though never having a name change comes in a close second.

133. Husband and I got married almost 15 years ago and we discussed all the options. But what it came down to was I liked my name & he liked his, and we both thought that hyphenating was a bit like passing the national debt down to the next generation. So I kept my name & he kept his.

     And we decided, when kids were on the horizon, that all the boy children would have my last name and all the girl children would have his (i.e. bond of gender with one parent, bond of surname with the other). As it happened: one girl, one boy, a household with two Hxxxx’s and two Fxxxxx’s.. The school, pharmacy, doctor’s office etc. are totally unfazed, as have been all immigration and passport control officials. (Perhaps we have just been lucky, but there you go.)

134. @ SarahMC:
     You know, I seriously debated changing my name independent of marriage. But, as someone brought up earlier, changing your name because you simply want to is a lot more hassle than changing it because you are getting married. Patriarchial and annoying? Yes very. I feel comfortable with changing it, but what I don’t feel comfortable with is this parade of people that seem to think that now I am suddenly not my own person but “the wife of so and so.” Irksome! Evidenced by many wedding gifts addressed to “mr and mrs his name.”
     Anyway, back to your point, if I graduated without getting married, I think I may have tried to change it then. But I knew I was getting married so I took the (maybe too) convenient way out of that question. Anyway, you are right, it is not the most perfect solution feminist-wise. I decided to go along with a tradition, but I did NOT do it simply for the purpose of going along with the tradition. I did it for other reasons. I simply used the tradition to do something I wanted to do anyway, which was made legally easier for me by this tradition existing. Hope that answers your question! 🙂

135. I changed my last name when I married because I wanted to erase my past. I didn’t have a career and I did have a father I wanted to get out of my life. So bite me.

136. Em – I’m with you there. I could have taken a new surname that wasn’t the same as my husband’s name…but if I’d shunned ‘tradition’ just for the sake of it, I would have felt far more controlled by that tradition than I do now. When we got engaged, my husband asked if I wanted him to take my name; that’s what he was expecting to happen. See, sometimes these things really are a free choice, rather than a situation where you have to either Be A Good Feminist or Give In To Patriarchy.

137. I kept my name, I’d had it all my life, why change a good thing? 🙂

     My family (just my aunts) periodically use my husband’s last name when addressing mail to me but from what I can see they are just trying to irritate me. It’s happening less frequently since they never get a reaction from me.

     I think the thing that irritated me the most were the people who gave me a cheque with my first name and his last name. Even if I had intended to change my name this was a pain in the a$$. How do I say thanks to someone when they make assumptions about my identity and make it almost impossible for me to cash the cheque? When people asked what the delay was (concerned their cheque was lost in transit) I tried to politely explain that I was trying to find out if my bank would accept a cheque that didn’t have my name on it. I think they are starting to catch on finally. 🙂

138. Mnemosyne,

     Unfortunately, the CA law change doesn’t take effect until 2009. (Or so I read somewhere).

     So, we actually went through a name-change, my husband’s. (Not in CA, but in the state we live in, before we were married in CA, which is both of our legal residence. This will make sense to some lawyers.) It really wasn’t that bad. I went to court 3x, he only went once, and we only stood in front of a judge once. Basically, it took (all told) four hours. First, I picked up a pro se packet (because I wanted to make sure the formatting was correct) then I filed the notice and got a court date, and on the same day ran down to the little newspaper that publishes legal notices) and then we showed up on the court date, waited through two name changes, and then he was up.

     Also, as for married women vs. name changes, umm, you don’t just have to go to the social security office. You also have to change your car title, your insurance (and add the husband!) your checking account, credit cards, credit reports blah, blah blah—I can tell you how much fun that is when I actually get it done. Blech. But at least he and I will be doing it together.

139. No, Roo. You’re not alone, I thought it was offensive too. When people ask me about myself, the fact that I have a husband is somewhat towards the end of what I typically disclose, and I don’t think I lost my past or my identity when I got married at all. I understand and own the fact that I was less attached to my last name than my now husband because I’m a woman and it’s always been expected that I would change my last name. I understand that it’s sexist that I changed my name and we didn’t even consider changing his name. I get all of that. I’m not ever going to be offended when people point those facts out- that’s silly. I’m not even offended when people point out that it upholds the system and makes it harder on women for who this is a VERY important issue. I understand that and agree that it sucks. What I do find offensive is stuff like “I find it creepy” Ok, the thought of a spider crawling on me while I sleep is creepy- why the fuck is what another adult woman does with her name creepy? OR “Oh, they’ve erased their past”. Um… no. No I did not. In fact, my college awards are in my married name, my degrees are in my married name, etc… Changing my last name in no way, shape, size, form or matter took away my past, changed who I am or altered me in any way. I am still me, I am just me with a different name. I really, really do understand why changing your name is problematic in a lot of ways, but for fuck’s sake, it didn’t make me NOT me. People get offended by this topic, I think, because even when it starts out as a criticism of the system, it usually quickly turns into “God I hate when women do that” or “I don’t understand why anyone would do that, it’s stupid/unnecessary/weak/etc…”. Seriously, does anyone enjoy hearing that they are stupid and or weak? That people cringe when they think about their decisions? Nope. So to have stuff like that in a thread and then say “Wow, I don’t get why people get offended by this topic?” is a bit disingenuous IMHO.

140. I kept my last name, thought about changing it to a combination of my mothers maiden name and fathers name at one point, but, my mom’s name has 26 letters and I was used to my dads name. I found no problem being married and having a different last name than my husband in the late 80’s early 90’s so I’m sure women who keep their name now re doing just fine.
     I’m divorced and didn’t have to change my name back.

     Most of my close friends who have children give their children their own unique names- including a unique last name. My sons last name is the same as his fathers – I lost a bet we made while I was pregnant. If my son ever chooses to change his name, I’ll support the choice as I’ve supported so many friends who’ve given themselves names different than what was on their Birth Cert.

141. Julie, I don’t think what you did was creepy. I don’t think you are stupid, unnecessary or weak. I do get why people get offended by this topic. It is a difficult subject because the issues of identity, choice, sexism, state-sanctioned partnerships and free will all come into play.

142. Also, as for married women vs. name changes, umm, you don’t just have to go to the social security office. You also have to change your car title, your insurance (and add the husband!) your checking account, credit cards, credit reports blah, blah blah—I can tell you how much fun that is when I actually get it done. Blech. But at least he and I will be doing it together.

     I think you missed my point. Those four court visits that you and your husband combined had to do? Not necessary if you’re a woman with a marriage certificate in your hand. That certificate is all the proof a woman needs to start changing her name, while a man requires a court visit.

     I’m trying to point out that it’s unfair that it’s far easier for a woman to legally change her name after marriage than it is for a man, but somehow people seem to keep missing the point. The fact that you and your husband will both have to change all of the names on all of your accounts doesn’t mean that he didn’t have extra hoops he had to jump through just to get to the same point that you could have gotten to merely with a marriage certificate.

143. Oh absolutely Mr. J. Honestly, I didn’t have that much of a problem with the post- I’m generally in favor of people doing what works for them and for a lot of people that’s keeping their name. I mentioned much farther up thread that I wasn’t a feminist when I got married and I really can’t tell you what I would’ve done if I had been when I got married. In fact, I’ll probably encourage my daughter not to follow in my footsteps. That being said, my more recent response was more in response to several people- there have been different comments throughout the thread that moved away from “this system sucks and here’s why” to “My God! Why would anyone do that/it’s creepy/there’s absolutely no reason whatsoever/it’s weak/it’s akin to branding cattle/etc…”. Am I explaining myself right? The line about becoming someone’s wife rather than someone with a vibrant past and identity rubbed me the wrong way, but it’s not like I really, really offended. It’s just when someone else pointed out that she felt it was offensive, I wanted to let her know that I agreed and saw where she was coming from. I also think it’s easier to remember that we’re criticizing the system and not the individual woman when it’s not a system that you’ve taken part in. I also belong to a list serve for siblings of people with autism, and they like to bash the direct care workers in the houses their siblings live in a lot, but as someone who worked direct care for a number of years, I can understand the overall criticisms, but still find some of the more personal comments to be offensive. It’s a similar thing for me.

144. Mnem—We went three times. The third was together. The first was unneccessary, I just wanted a pro se packet.

     To get married, we had to go to the courthouse once to get the marriage license. Then we had to send it in. Then we’ll have to get a copy. And only then can I go through this name change bollocks.

     So I don’t think, having done both things, that two court visits is much harder than one. Should men have to do this? No. But is it the real reason why more men aren’t taking their wives’ names? I highly doubt it.

     In any event, since we were reverting to an earlier name, even if the new CA law were already in effect, one of us would have had to get a name change anyways.

145. My last name is my grandmother’s maiden name; it was my father’s choice to change his name after becoming estranged from his father. (My grandmother, however, is estranged from her father and uses her second husband’s last name, even though she hasn’t been married for two decades and has a partner with an entirely different name. Confused yet?)

     My mother, a feminist in spirit even if she wouldn’t call herself one, is Herfirst Herlast Hislast legally but Herfirst Herlast professionally and in most other contexts. It looks like I might marry Current Boy after we’ve graduated from college, and I would consider doing the same.

     …which would leave me Elle E F (no hyphen) on paper, and Elle E professionally and whenever more convenient. I don’t see that as profoundly antifeminist, but neither can I explain why that nod to tradition-patriarchy-and-all-that appeals to me on some level, or why I wouldn’t expect him to take my name. (I’ve considered it on principle, but I also think his first name and my last name sound sort of silly in combination.)

     Or I might just keep my last name and forget about his. It’s a nice enough name, but it’s absolutely a question of just my name or mine combined with his; exchanging mine for his isn’t an option.

     Children are more complicated. Our last names together are a five-syllable mouthful, but each of our names has rich cultural ties (mine Swedish, his Jewish) and much personal meaning. To their credit, both are easy to pronounce. I’ve considered giving our hypothetical children both our names and allowing them to choose one when they’re older, but we have about a decade before this becomes a pressing issue, so we’ll see.

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147. Hello, this is Lauren Abraham Mahoney… yes, me from the article. I consider myself to be a feminist AND decided to change my name. The point is, people should feel free to make their own decisions – either way. Changing your name and other such decisions are personal, and there are many reasons to do it one way or the other. Our society gives us the choice, even though some people believe the traditional way to be somehow better and others believe that bucking tradition is somehow better. Having the right to decide for ourselves means that we can choose. This choice doesn’t necessarily make a statement about being a weak woman, doesn’t mean loss of sense of self and doesn’t mean that I am somehow lessened as an individual or as a feminist by the title Mrs. Lauren Mahoney.

148. How about this? Let’s not look down our noses at other women’s choices and call it feminism.

149. Is it really looking down our noses to say that the choices are highly encouraged by negative social practices? Really?

     I don’t look down on women who choose to be nurses or schoolteachers, but I also don’t think it is accidental that women are pushed toward the giving/lowpaying professions.

150. Is it really looking down our noses to say that the choices are highly encouraged by negative social practices? Really?

     It’s not looking down your nose to say that Ismone, it’s that the language used in the post and in the comments imply that women must “justify” or “make excuses” for their choices. It dismisses choices women have made as “excuses”. You know, sometimes women *do* make excuses for patriarchy, but the point is, if you aren’t in their heads, you really do not know.

151. Hi, Mrs. Mahoney! Welcome!

     I agree that people should feel free to make their own decisions. I don’t think that you’re weak or lost or less of a feminist due to the choice that you made.

     Though I do question the concept that a woman changing her name to reflect the fact that she married a man makes something better. Who does this make things better for and why? Also, if centuries of patriarchal society in the United States and other countries has practically mandated that women change their last names–and their prefixes–to reflect their marital status, while making no such requirement for men, I don’t see going along with that historical societal mandate as a completely independently-considered choice.

     I see it as similar to choosing to wear white on your wedding day, which I plan to do, if I find someone who wants to commit to all of this crazy for the rest of our lives. 🙂 It’s not like there are equal numbers of women in the US walking down the aisle in a ROYGBIV-colored wedding dress, although some choose to do so. I have seen a peach wedding dress, a gold wedding dress, and Lorelai Gilmore’s blush wedding dress. However, most wedding dresses worn and marketed in the US are some shade of white. So saying that you chose to wear a white dress on your wedding day without acknowledging that white was the expectation, and that most other brides wear white dresses, too, strikes me in the same way.

     That said, choosing to change your name or to wear white or to engage in marriage (with all of its heteronormative, discriminatory, ownership-society history) does not make you any less of a person or any less of a feminist.

152. Well, I’ve got one suggestion for why someone would keep her name and then give the kids his: fatigue.

     It annoys me no end to know that if I ever get into a longterm heterosexual relationship again, I get to have this fight again with the world. I’ll get to have the experience of a’s mother, 30 years later with people constantly swearing up and down that I’m Mrs. HisProperty.

     I do not plan on having children. But if I did have any, I’d probably cave and give them his if he wasn’t immediately cool about it. Why? Because I would be spending the rest of my adult life fighting with people for the right to keep my name. I don’t think I have the energy to fight for the rest of my life for the kid’s name too.

     God, I love being single and not having to deal with the heterosexual marital stereotypes. I rather wish I could go bi so as to get to bypass them. (Tried, feel “eh” about it.)

153. Hmmm, I’ve been thinking of changing my name while I’m still young, because my parents put down a pet name instead of the more formal form for me when they have to chose an English one. …and, as silly as it sounds, names does affect impression. Since I wanted to change my first AND second name, I had wondered if it’ll be easier back in HS, if I just enter a lavender marriage with a BFF and take his name…

154. Jennifer, if the kids’ names are yours, then you will encounter *less* of this problem.

     I get called “Mrs. Myhusbandname” by people who know my *kids*, and telemarketers. The telemarkters can be blown off, and they’re just as likely to ask my husband if he’s Mr. Rogers. The people who know my kids are people who could hurt my kids if they think I’m an asshole, such as their teachers and doctors. So when I correct those people I have to be super polite about it.

     If your name is the same as the kids, the vast majority of the people who will call you by a different name, won’t, because they know your kids’ name. Your husband’s name is actually not relevant when talking to people who know your kids, especially if like most mothers you do most of the dealing with people who know your kids.

155. My husband decided that eventually he’ll change his last name to mine. It felt weird to correct the justice of the peace who married us when he informed me that when I signed my wedding certificate it’d be “the last time” I ever used that name. My own family thinks we’re a couple of weirdos. We just think my last name is a whole lot cooler!

156. I think becoming Mr. Cheeseburgerpie is very cool.

157. I always said I’d never change my name when I got married. My mother didn’t, although I have my dad’s last name. This is a shame, because I like her last name better, although I get along better with him.

     I do kind of get the justification of liking his name better. If you’ve ever been on a date with a guy with a really pretty last name, you’ll understand, particularly if your actual surname is icky-sounding, hard to spell, and easy to make puns with.

     Of course, I’ll probably just switch to my mum’s last name eventually, regardless of my marital status.

     I knew a Goldschmidt and a Goldberg who got married. Their solution was to change both their names. Now they (and their son) are the Gold family.

158. I have actually been contemplating a name change for a while, but I haven’t decided what to change it to…

     I have wanted to change it to Rathbone ever since I learned it was my great-grandmother’s maiden name. She was an effing cool lady, plus it fits me pretty well.

     Buuuut…my partner has a cool last name as well, and I kind of like the symbolization of changing it when we get our relationship formalized for legal purposes. And it would really piss my parents off if I took her name.

     …I have a feeling that ‘to piss my parents off’ is not a good reason to do something, even though it is wicked amusing.

     I don’t want to stick with what I’ve got, though. I’m a Stargirl – can’t keep one for all time.

159. I don’t know exactly what I’ll end up doing. My SO’s name is a standard run-of-the-mill name here in DK. So I won’t be taking his, should it come to marriage (which it likely won’t, but that’s neither here nor there). My own two last names are a different matter altogether. The name I have from my dad is a constructed name because HIS parents were name-snobs and exchanged their run-of-the-mill name for a more fancy sounding one. Besides, I’m sick o being recognized only as my father’s daughter so, though I do like the sound of the name I may yet drop it. My mother’s last name has history, and so I’ll keep it. It is the name of the small Norwegian town from whence my family emigrated to Denmark 8 or so generations back. However, I may well add my grandmother’s maiden name to mine. Because that name can be traced to a historical location in Denmark. None of her children carry that name, and the only few of her siblings have passed the name one. So heh…

     I’ve already gone through the hassle of changing my first name, and that process is wondrously easy compared to changing one’s last name. At least that’s the situation here in DK.

160. I may only be 15, but I love my last name. It has such a family history.

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