In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Odds and Ends

As usual, too much good stuff to write about and not enough hours in the day. Since Torts calls, I give you a link round-up:

Various writers tackle women and work. Some of my favorite excerpts:

Dana:

Over the course of a century in which women’s roles outside of the home expanded radically, mothers continued to spend the exact same number of hours on basic childcare chores as their great-great-grandmothers did. And the average working man with a working spouse still spends just three hours a week on basic child care.

Ezra:

In a home where both parents work, women spend 11 hours a week caring for the kids and men spend…three. Whoa. Of course, this isn’t because husbands and wives sit down and set up a schedule where women do about four times as much child work. Rather, it just sort of…happens that way. People are busy. The guys look at the work and assume someone else will take care of it. The women look at the work and decide they’d better get it done. Societal expectations reinforce this division of labor.

Woah indeed.

Tom Colicchio from Top Chef:

Women are reluctant to enter the culinary world because they believe (and this is not unjustified) that a cooking career is incompatible with raising children, which leaves those of us who want to hire, promote, and mentor women with a slimmer field to choose from than we’d like. And to an extent, they’re right: The bottom line is our society does not yet provide women in the workplace with the type of social supports, like high-quality subsidized child care or extended parental leave, that allows them to fully go for it, and the impact this has on the scope and depth of a career is profound. Right or wrong, men plunge into their careers without much thought about how they’ll navigate the work/family balance. They assume someone — spouse, parent, paid caregiver — will materialize to take care of it (and usually someone does.) This one assumption opens up an entire world of possibility to a young person in a way that can’t be overstated. Ask yourself how many female Ferran Adrias, Thomas Kellers, or Joel Robuchons have chosen a different path — say, catering or opening a bakeshop — because it seems more family friendly? These may be great career choices, but they aren’t the breeding grounds of culinary legend.

Atrios (just read it all — it’s brieft).

It genuinely pains me that I am probably not going to have time to write a post on this article about shared parenting in last weekend’s NY Times Magazine. But you should definitely check it out. I went in expecting to hate it — particularly because it’s written by Lisa Belkin, she of the “opt-out revolution” faux-trend articles — but actually found it to be quite nuanced and interesting. It gets beyond the same old explanations for the household division of labor and really delves into the structural and broader social that push women in certain directions while casting it all as a “choice.” There have been some criticisms that the article only focuses on two-parent families, but since it’s about the gender-based division of labor, I can see why Belkin made that choice. I do wish that there had been a greater emphasis on the class dynamics at play, but Belkin did do a decent job at addressing those without flat-out using the word “class” — through the anecdotes and interviews, she made it clear that for a lot of families, equal division of labor and childcare is an economic privilege, and that the “choice” to have a less equal division is more about financial realities than feminist beliefs.

If you’re up for being ticked off, check out this piece, titled “Is There Really a Bias Against Women in Politics? History Suggests Otherwise.” He’s right, when you think about it. I mean, after the long line of female presidents we’ve had, and the huge numbers of Congresswomen and female governors, who can reasonably argue that there’s an anti-woman bias in politics? Silly feminists and your victim mentality. (If you actually read the article, you’ll see that he goes on to blame women getting the right to vote for “big government.”)

Is it 3am for feminism now that Hillary Clinton has lost and women are supposedly bitter?

No. Feminists are prepared to back Barack Obama.

Ugly news out of Europe: Another xenophobic anti-immigrant measure has been passed. We’ll see if it passes judicial review.

Bitch PhD writes on the ACLU blog about how same-sex marriage helped her heterosexual marriage.

If women genuinely just want to have babies and dust the furniture all day, why is Kathleen Parker a gainfully employed columnist? I do love the right-wing women who make entire careers out of telling other women to stay home. And FYI to Kathleen: I’m pretty sure that some people aren’t “hard-wired” to like scrubbing the floor more than others.

A new book is out discussing how contraception access could help to stem population growth, because most women want small families. This isn’t anything new, but the Washington Post reviewer seems befuddled, and her conclusions are truly bizarre:

But Engelman’s account gives the impression that women have always been more interested in preventing children than in having them. Surely, throughout history there have always been women wanting fewer children, but there have also been women praying to have even one. While human history may have seen lots of informal contraceptives, it also saw lots of fertility totems. Moreover, this argument — give women birth control, and women will take care of any population crisis — strangely ignores the role of men, who don’t always want eight children, either. Give women birth control and their husbands and partners might insist that they use it.

Uh… ok? Sure, there have always been women praying to have even one child — but far more women attempt to control the number of their children by limiting childbirth than by taking steps to up their fertility. That isn’t to denigrate the issues that women face when they have trouble conceiving, just to say that throughout human history, preventing pregnancy has been something that a greater number of women have attempted. It’s also odd that the review claims that a pro-birth-control argument ignores the role of men.

Planned Parenthood hits suburbia, and the WSJ freaks out. This is a pretty irritating piece — it goes after Planned Parenthood for having the audacity to open clinics in wealthier suburban areas, instead of serving low-income people. Except that in reality, there is no “instead of” — Planned Parenthood serves a wide variety of people, and they aren’t cutting services for low-income people in order to go to suburbia. In fact, the suburban clinics help PP to recoup some of its losses on the clinics that serve primarily low-income populations — so clinics that can charge full price for birth control make it possible for PP to offer reduced-price birth control to a greater number of people who need it. Nor are low-income people all living in the “inner city” — for a lot of low-income Americans, the suburban clinics are more accessible than the urban clinics. And you know, it’s about time that Planned Parenthood made its clinics look better. The article gives the impression that PP is only renovating the clinics in wealthier areas, but that’s not actually true — they’re giving a large number of their clinics face-lifts. And since PP has always poured most of its money into services and not frills, a lot of their clinics need it. I don’t see how that’s a bad thing — unless we’re under the impression that low-income people don’t deserve to be served in nice locations, and should have to settle for shit. It’s also worth noting that despite the WSJ’s hand-wringing about PP serving the suburban wealthy, three-quarters of people PP serves qualify as low-income.

A shot to the G-spot for better orgasms? Color me skeptical too.

Aww, Barry… I know you have to fight the “Barack Obama is a Muslim” line, but not letting women in headscarves sit where they may be in photos with the candidate? Of course it’s not Obama’s fault personally, and the campaign has said it’s not their policy, but, damn.

A Catholic charity is being investigated for helping a teenage girl get an abortion. I know we rail against anti-choice groups and the politicization of the Catholic church, but this is a good opportunity to point out that there are lots of Catholics on the ground who are working hard for social justice. Much of the aid to immigrants in border states has come from Catholic charities, and Catholic workers have been on the front lines against people like the Minutemen who seek to harass, assault and even kill illegal immigrants. Before Roe, religious groups — including Catholics — helped women to seek out safe illegal abortions. And now, there are Catholic charities that are going against doctrine and helping women who need it get legal abortions. Here, the woman in question is a 16-year-old illegal immigrant from Guatemala.

This is unrelated to feminism, but is about one of my personal pet peeves: Arbitration clauses in consumer contracts. They sound like a good idea, but in practice they almost always only benefit the business. They are no good, and an important issue for consumer advocates to tackle.

The history of American soldiers committing sexual assault against women in Japan is finally getting some attention — and the U.S. government isn’t happy about it.

Obama is the real pro-life candidate
.

The boys on the bus
— with Clinton out the race, the campaigns are dominated by men.

Enjoy!


42 thoughts on Odds and Ends

  1. Trying to work and raise kids does not work to the children’s advantage, so I really wish that moms would let the dads provide and then get themselves home to raise up the kids….when they are of age, then we can go out and conquer the professional world, delve into academia, etc….otherwise, there is a lot that falls thru the cracks, lots of complaining that dads don’t help, etc…and really, the kids get the short end of the stick. It makes sense all around for moms to be at home with kids and then most everything will fall into place….they dont’ have to expect dad to work all day and then come home to mop the floor or whatever.
    I know of some moms that must work due to their circumstances, but most moms that I know still choose to work when they have husbands that can and do provide.

  2. Over the course of a century in which women’s roles outside of the home expanded radically…

    Generally, only for white, upper & middle class women. Its important to remember this little factoid.

  3. Yeah, I don’t really understand why people think that women like doing housework. I hate housework. HATE it. Do I do it? Yes, if my husband pesters me to help him. Or if the kitchen really needs cleaning.

    (resisting the urge to feed the troll…)

  4. Diane, do you have kids? And if so, why are you playing on the internet instead of watching them? Shouldn’t you be making sure that they don’t fall through the cracks like the kids of those selfish working mothers?

    Newsflash: Most women don’t have the “choice” not to work. For most people, it’s an economic necessity.

  5. I also think it’s funny that Diane spent the last thread insisting that she isn’t anti-woman, and that anti-choicers really care about women and babies and life. Nope — it’s the same old misogynist crap. Women exist to serve other people, whether they’re incubators for fetuses or personal servants for their husbands and children.

  6. Diane, as the daughter of a mom who stayed home to take care of us kids, I have this to say: Pfft!

    I got to watch my mother withdraw from the world little by little as depression and isolation ate away at her. She was miserably unhappy as a full-time mother when her heart was in academia.

    If you think having a mother whose too busy to spend oodles of time will give a kid issues, try having a mother who has all the time in the world, but can barely muster up enough interest in your life to remember to let you in after school.

  7. Putting aside whether women should or not, have to or don’t work, I know alot of men with stay at home wives that simply have not time to do the traditional male responisibilities due to work demands. And unless someone is wealthy and can afford to pay someone to do things, home life as it a standstill. The idea that someone, male or female, needs time to themselves for family, home maintenance or hobbies is not acceptible today. Corporations take advantage of people and have set up a system that makes it impossible with the squashing of unions and the ever successful excuse that we need to compete globally.

    Also, I must add that I wish people would stop making excuses for Obama. For goodness sake the women with headscarves is so insulting and outrageous and transparent in motives. Get out of denial or are people so enamored with this guy they can see no fault. I would rather have a president everyone distrusts hates and keeps and watchful eye every second.

    Are you people aware he opting out of public financing? I guess he is another typical politician. He claims he needs it to battle the republicans; I thought he was so brilliant that he could battle out the opponents with his words?

  8. Sorry for the grammatical errors.

    Just wanted to add that I am so happy that Hillary is out of the race so now the media get to remind women of there place in society with the wonderful coverage of Michelle and Cindy. I am being sarcastic of course here. I always questioned if Hillary would lose where would women be? Successful women in their own right are to the side of their husbands once again.

    And regardless of those that keep insisting Hillary women are now behind Obama. This one is not unless she is on the ticket with him. Let’s get out of oz – click you red ruby slippers three times and wake up from the rhetoric dream.

  9. Diane… can I ask you a question?

    As a woman in a lesbian relationship… I must ask you… which one of us is suppose to stay home when we have kids (which we are planning on)? Should it be the more butch one (which i neither of us)? Or, since we are both women… should we BOTH stay home and just hope money shows up? Or make our sperm donor provide for us.

  10. Now, now, meggygurl. Surely you know that in Diane’s universe the answer is to pray and repent, and God will have compassion on you by ripping you away from your partner and handing you a properly godly man.

  11. Don’t ask “Diane” questions – it’s obvious that “she” is just another troll trying to stir up trouble on every thread on a feminist website.

    Kathleen Parker, by the way, was a divorced mother of a toddler who put her son in daycare while she worked outside the home. She’s written columns rhapsodizing about how all those kindly elderly women should be put to work minding the younger generation.

  12. I hate housework.
    I hate grocery shopping more. So I Vaccuum and do the tubs, and he grocery shops (while I vaccuum, each 1x/week, except I only really vacuum every 2-3 weeks but don’t tell) and he does the toilets. I cook, he washes the pots and things, and usually he empties the dishwasher.
    Till… just recently… I got a Roomba! Screw you vacuuming! Muahahahaha!
    I’m worth far too much in the free market to submit to full time drudgery that is housework. Bo-Ring!

  13. Ooo I just thought of a nice motto:
    “Have robotic servants. Don’t BE a robotic servant.”

  14. Ummmm Diane… yeah…

    See, I earn more than my OH… almost twice as much, as I was fortunate enough to be able to attend uni whilst he was struggling through homelessness, and while I have a full-time job with benefits and a chance at advancement, he still works temp contracts whilst trying to save up enough to get a qualification that will provide him with more employment opportunities.

    If we ever found ourselves with children (we intend not to, but so long as doctors refuse to give him the snip the risk is there), why should I give up a long term and successful career, with the opportunity for advancement and a higher wage to benefit my family, whilst he goes off and carries on working part time, temp or seasonal manual labour for low wages and no opportunities?

    Surely the argument should be that, provided the family in question is privileged and earning enough to do so, either both parents (assuming a 2-parent, co-habiting family model here, of course) reduce working hours to fit in with each other or the one with a lower income, a less enjoyable job or a more flexible job reduces work hours/quits work?

    Besides which, once kids are attending school, does mum really have to be at home ALLLLLLLL day?

  15. The history of American soldiers committing sexual assault against women in Japan is finally getting some attention

    Though the article covers the history of sexual assault committed by US soldiers in Japan decently, it only covers one of the important reasons why the Japanese authorities sometimes drop rape charges….US political pressures.

    While that is an important factor, another factor that has to be taken into account is the systemic tendency of the Japanese political and judicial establishment to be dismissive of rape cases through extremely light sentences, shaming of victims by the authorities, and widespread prejudiced assumptions among many in the Japanese public that women so victimized by US military personnel were probably “low-class women” in both the socio-economic and sexual political sense and thus, are not considered worthy of public support and authorities’ help unless it the incidents could be used to gain political leverage vis a vis the US and to reinforce popular Japanese xenophobic narratives about how “their” women are being “violated” by foreign men due to their inherent “barbarism”. Even so, the support and “sympathy” is quite limited and of extreme dubiousness.

    What’s ironic about many prominent politicians and the Japanese MSM playing on these prejudices is that they are almost invariably the same brand of Japanese right-wingers who vociferously deny the existence and the Japanese government’s responsibility for colonized Asian women who were forced into sexual slavery by Japanese military authorities. These denials continue despite plenty of documented testimonies and documents….including a key document discovered in the early ’90s by a Japanese historian doing research in the Japanese National Defense Archives.

  16. 1. obviously everyone can give exceptions to my statement, but the fact is that kids do best when moms decide to take care of them and not farm them out to nannys, daycare, etc. If you can admit this, than you are being dishonest. Moms can and should delay academic and professional gratification to tend to kids.
    If a mom is so unbalanced that she is a danger to her kids if she stays at home or if she will neglect them, obviously this is one of the exceptions that I’ve mentioned and the women SHOULD NOT TAKE CARE OF HER KIDS!
    2. Dads can provide and come home to spend time w/ kids and wife and not be asked to do housework that mom could have handled while at home.
    3. there are a lot of things that we are obligated to do that we don’t like and housework is one of them. When we have older kids, I think they should do the housework, too. I don’t think dads should do housework after working all day, except if the mom MUST work all day, too and then in that case, the work at home should be split.
    4. yes, i have kids. One is at summer camp right now swimming in a river for 2 weeks and my older one is reading and I have time to have a neat house, direct my kids violin practice, take her to walmart for clothes and spend time making telemarketing sales calls in between to sustain my business while the kids are out of school for the summer. I do the computer follow up when they are asleep at night…so my internet stuff on this website is a very small part of what I do and I do have time for it between my other responsibilities. When my kids are visitng their dad, I have all the time in the world to catch up on housework, my job, intenet blogging etc. I dont’ like having to give my kids up for visitation but it is required by law, is good for them to see their dad, etc. I don’t have to be in my kids’ face in order to be with them. I have purposelfullly chosen a carreer that puts me at home before they return from school during the school year. I have a ‘full time’ job and can still be at the school for parties, chapel,, etc. They are old enought that I don’t have to watch them every second of the summer.
    5. kids do best in families with mom and dad, so I dont’ support same sex couples rearing kids.
    6. women do not exist to serve ‘people’ as servants. When I take cupcakes to my kids school land serve them, I don’t see myself as a servant, nor do I see myself as a servant when I fix dinner for my kids or when I clean the house. When we are married we should serve our kids and husbands and likewise the husbands should serve and provide for his wife and family. No, just because I support at- home moms that do the housework doesn’t mean that we are servants. using that mentality, providing Dads could just see themselves at the financial providers….there is much more to our roles in our marriages than just houseworker and financial provider, but many here would like to reduce our roles to just that in order to speak badly of men, marriage, kids, etc.
    7. Most women in the us work due to desire, not need. If we are willing to accept older model car, simple vacations, smaller homes, meals at home, etc. then many women can be at home taking care of their kids. The truth is, we as a society are materialistic and not content to live simply. Women and men are selfish and want glory outside of the home….many men expect their wives to work so that they can have a big screen tv, elaborate vacations, boat, 3rd car, gardener, etc…not much of a man in my opinion.

  17. kids do best in families with mom and dad, so I dont’ support same sex couples rearing kids.

    …and yet you’re raising your own kids in a house without a mom and a dad. Fascinating.

    Most women in the us work due to desire, not need.

    Lady, you are out of touch with reality. And you work — do you do that out of desire?

    You’ve gotta be joking, right? I mean, you proscribe all of this BS for everyone else, and you don’t even follow your own rules in your own life.

  18. but the fact is that kids do best when [parents are able] to take care of them and not farm them out to nannys, daycare, etc.

    Fixed that for you. In any case, though the above (once fixed) is probably true as a generalization, in particulars it depends on the child, depends on the parents, and of course depends on the child’s age. But the generalization is true enough for very young children that all pro-child/pro-motherhood nations have paid maternity leave for up to a year after the baby is born, and many have paid paternity leave, because (unlike pro-life child abusers like you) they actually believe that children do better when their parents are able to take care of them – and make it possible for parents to do so.

    2. Dads can provide and come home to spend time w/ kids and wife and not be asked to do housework that mom could have handled while at home.
    3. there are a lot of things that we are obligated to do that we don’t like and housework is one of them.

    Providing you’re not a “dad”, that is. OMG, Diane, if you weren’t an advocate of child abuse I would find this juxtaposition hilarious.

  19. I should also add that in the Okinawan cases, race also enters into the picture as while Okinawa and the Ryuku Islands are considered part of the current Japanese nation-state and its inhabitants Japanese citizens, there are still some strongly held racist attitudes of regarding indigenous Okinawans and Ryukuan peoples as “inferior” and “low-class” vis a vis the Japanese. One clear manifestation of this which angers the indigenous Okinawans is the fact that even after the US handed Okinawa back to the Japanese in 1972, that most of the US military’s footprint in Japan continues to be in Okinawa.

    This is by design as it is a good way for the Japanese government to locate most of the US military’s presence with its noise pollution, environmental degradations, and crime problems away from the Japanese metropole and thus, minimizing irritations and dangers to most of its own populace. As the Okinawans are regarded as “lower” than “Japanese”, a colonialist-derived prejudice* that has existed since the annexation of Okinawa and the Ryukus in 1878, not much concern is paid on the Okinawan’s behalf by the Japanese political establishment beyond lip service and political haggling with the US.

    * Similarly derived prejudices are also held against Koreans and Chinese living in Japan. One classmate who is a Japanese-citizen of Chinese descent mentioned he found he lost many supposed friends and endured much racist bullying from elementary and junior high classmates when he revealed that he was of Chinese descent.

  20. Diane, if you haven’t noticed yet, the world is made of exceptions.

    As it happens, I think my Mom would have done just fine with a job and kids – she raised my brothers while working with some stress and juggling, but no killer depression. The killer depression arrived when Dad graduated school and she went home to stay. Stimulation and a sense of worth (such as making some income) are not exactly rare needs.

    My personal view is that the kids are best off with whatever work/home situation gives them the sanest, happiest parents. Ones that aren’t secretly thinking of their children as an unbearable burden. And it’s not my call to say what situation is going to keep a particular person sane. My personal sanity depends on at least an hour of purely alone time each day. Without it I’m quickly crawling up the walls to try to get away from my kids because I just can’t stand another moment of contact. My grandmother’s was dependant on adult stimulation that I can do without nicely, my mother’s on intellectual challenge and research opportunities.

    IOW – people are different from one another, and the ideal life set-up is going to look different from family to family. Why this should be a shocking news flash, I have no idea.

  21. Urban,

    Christ the guy’s campaign fucked up. No question. Horrible, discriminatory thing to do. I think he should have tried to personally apologize to the women involved. But this does not make the guy in question evil incarnate. I save that label for the guy who wants to bomb Iran for no freaking reason and take away my right to bodily autonomy.

    And what should he have done wrt public financing? Let McCain swiftboat him out of the race? Have you seen all the lies out there about him? And just recently the guys who engineered the whole swiftboat attacks have created a 527 called “Swift Boat Obama.”

    Besides, lets think logically about this…public financing was created to reduce the influence of special interest groups. 91% of Obama’s contributions come from people who donate $100 or less. About half are less than $25. So who is owned by? Americans?

    Exholt,

    Excellent point. The class warfare in Japan often gets ignored in those discussions.

  22. Most women in the us work due to desire, not need. If we are willing to accept older model car, simple vacations, smaller homes, meals at home, etc. then many women can be at home taking care of their kids. The truth is, we as a society are materialistic and not content to live simply. Women and men are selfish and want glory outside of the home….many men expect their wives to work so that they can have a big screen tv, elaborate vacations, boat, 3rd car, gardener, etc…not much of a man in my opinion.

    This is certainly contrary to my experiences and those of my classmates in my childhood urban working-class neighborhood. Nearly all of us were in situations where BOTH parents had to work at least 2 jobs 6-7 days/week just so there was enough to put a roof over our heads, food on our tables, utilities, supplies for school, public transportation, etc. In many cases, we kids had to start working from elementary school onwards to help support our families. The way I see it, the SAHP choice is a luxury only available to upper/middle class parents either living in wealthy areas or in regions of the country where living expenses are extremely low. In fact, I did not meet a classmate who had a SAHM or SAHD until I entered high school where there were a minuscule sample of classmates from well-off families.

    In short, Diane, the lifestyles you’ve observed in your seemingly upper/middle-class neighborhood is not reflective of how most Americans live.

  23. Diane, I’m going to assume that you support a welfare state that allows one parent of every child to stay home to parent full-time.

    No, don’t respond. I’ll just assume it.

    (Why are you not banned yet?)

  24. “Surely the argument should be that, provided the family in question is privileged and earning enough to do so, either both parents (assuming a 2-parent, co-habiting family model here, of course) reduce working hours to fit in with each other or the one with a lower income, a less enjoyable job or a more flexible job reduces work hours/quits work?”

    I thank people on this blog for recognizing the importance of some necessary preconditions when determining one’s choices. I thank God I do not worry about homelessness, not feeding my family, or not providing (private) health care, when choosing any career open to me.

    “Over the course of a century in which women’s roles outside of the home expanded radically…”
    “Generally, only for white, upper & middle class women. Its important to remember this little factoid.”

    Yes, indeed. Many ignore this when judging the underprivileged and their living conditions.

  25. Oh wow, am I ever late to the party. Diane, I don’t know you, and I’m not going to comment on your experience, only my own. I’m a mother of three, who stayed home with them for eleven years. I can tell you that the isolation, in combined with my failing marriage, caused my depression-which I’ve always had, but which was exacerbated by events in my life-to spiral out of control, to a point where I finally had no choice but to seek therapy (possibly the only positive aspect of the whole ordeal). I’m a natural loner, so I at first didn’t even see myself becoming more and more cut off from everyone. If a woman works-whether for financial reasons or for her own sanity-she needs emotional support and practical help, because this isn’t the same world as it was 100 years ago.

    (I hope I’ve expressed myself well, I have chicken sauce on the stove so I’m in a hurry!)

  26. Kristen, I just want to know what the hell the “change” mantra means if one justifies not being limited to public funds? Somehow Obama, who was not expected to do well, won the nomination over Hillary and others, Richardson for example, with way more experience. And now he can’t win the election, after all of Republican blunders and Bush hatred, without a huge amount of money?

  27. 1. I support personal responsiblility when it comes to raising kids…not having the govt provide childcare and subsidies….unless we are really poor. Families should decide to decrease their materialistic lifestyle in order to parent their own kids.
    2. I’m divorced…and??? how am I a hypocrite? My husband set up his own residence…I went back to work because I had to pay my own way….what’s hypocrital about that? I guess I’d fall into the catagory of ‘women who must work’. I did it kicking and screaming and thank God I was able to make it in the marriage that had hidden, mild violence directed at me until my kids were at least in 1st and 2nd grade. Even when I had to go back work, I made sure to negotiate a sales job where I could work from my home and be home when my kids were home from school and mostly telemarket in the summer. I even allowed myself to get fired and went w/out employement for 6 weeks when a new boss cancelled my home-based situation….joined another company that promised me the same thing and also changed it and found yet another job where the norm in the industry was to work from the home….so I know first hand the hardships for women w/ kids….we must be committed to their care and so I moved into a working class neighborhood so I could at least afford a small home for them since it took 1.5 yrs to receive child support. moms in my neighborhood live in modest homes and have husbands that can and do provide and many stay at home…it seems that at the private school my kids are at, alot of the wealthy kids have working moms that are out pursuing professional aspirations, climbing mountains for hobbies, etc….. in general, we have not done our kids any favors by entering the workforce when we don’t have financial need to. Don’t give me the excpetions…..I know they exist. We need moms to take care of their kids, period. Delay the other gratification til later…you will never be able to get the time back w/ the kids and will never be able to impact them whle they are young.
    I used to have a nanny until my eldest was 1yr and then gave up my company car and shared a car with my hubby who travelled in our one remaINing car and had to live on half of the income, so I have experienced financial tightening up for the sake of a mom at home w/ the kids….it is what’s best for them and not enough families are doing that right now AND YA’LL KNOW THAT….there are way too many selfish parents whose lives don’t change when they have kids.

  28. but the fact is that kids do best when moms decide to take care of them and not farm them out to nannys, daycare, etc.”

    I strongly disagree. Everyone has the right to make their own choices and must make decisions based upon their own individual circumstances, but in my experience, having my child interact with other children and adults on a regular basis (i.e., daily at daycare) has been an immensely positive experience. My 2-yr-old daughter is full of self-confidence, has a wide circle of friends, she is not afraid of new people or experiences, she has learned to share, be patient, and care for others, she respects her teachers, and she has had been able to experience all sorts of learning activities that I would never had thought up. Her teachers have training in early-childhood education, and it shows. She is getting a real leg-up in the world, she will be fully prepared for school, and she’s understands that in life there are things you have to do even if you just don’t wanna (lessons about responsibility and dealing with bureaucracy are already learned).

    When I interact with a young child who stays at home with their mothers full-time, I have often found them to be clingy, needy, and scared of others, and the mothers are often going stir-crazy (of course these observations are not true in all cases). Kids with stay-at-home moms have rarely had the breadth of experience my daughter has had, and I think they are going to have a rough time acclimating to school.

    I have never felt left out of raising my child: she knows that I am her mother and I am and always will be there for her, and we have a very close bond. Having her in daycare has been wonderful (I am grateful that I can afford quality daycare, and I believe that it should be available to everyone), and I truly believe I am a better parent to my daughter as I have others who help spread out and share the demands of a young child, and I am able to use my education and experience to provide a solid home-life and a positive role-model. My mother worked when I was young and I went to daycare, as did my grandmother when my mom was young, and before that the women in my family were farmers (and you can’t tell me they weren’t working). I never felt that I was missing anything, and I learned a lot going to another person’s house every morning with a bunch of other kids.

    It really does take a village to raise a child, and it is unreasonable to believe that each individual woman who has a child must bear all of the responsibility for the daily routine and the life-time parenting cloistered in their own homes without any help. I do not believe this is even a historical-accurate expectation, as family groups used to live much closer and help each other more than occurs in modern suburbia. The SAHM doing all the work in her own little ranch home with the picket fence is a fantasy of the 1950’s. It’s not good for the environment, it does not make good use of the talents of over half of the population; it fails to take advantage of specialization in teaching; and it is not necessarily the best way to prepare a child for life in our modern world.

    If you want to be a SAHM and can afford it — good for you; I have nothing but respect for your decision. But you have no right to be self-righteous about it, or try to impose your choice on me. Being a SAHM would not be best for me, my daughter, or my family — and I (and my husband/partner) have the right to make that decision.

  29. to attrny mom:
    You kid is OK despite daycare, not because of it….my kids were reading at 1st grade levels at age 4, had travelled extensively on business road trips w/ mom and dad, participated in playgroups in the neighborhood, had simple time on the driveway w/ me, got talked to all day as I did my housework, didn’t get corrupted by the media, etc. since they were at home.
    Your generalization that kids at home w/ moms is way off and simply your way of jsutifiying you not taking care of your own kid. kids at home w/ moms are very secure, having been with their favorite person most of their life and having had to learn to do without mom before they were ready….i breast feed my youngest for 3.5 years and have such an incredible touchy-feely bond w/ her as a result….not possible if I were working….both of my girls still talk about our ‘sweet days’ at home.
    I do like the idea of relatives and neighbors helping when a mom needs help, but institutionalized day care??? Yuck! The intituionalized idea that kids best raised by nannies, babysitters and daycare??? versus a MOM…..are you kidding? You must be.

    If you are trying to say that day care is better than a mom taking care of her own, you are deluding yourself and deep down inside, you know it.

  30. Diane,

    I did not attack your choice to be a SAHM. It is clear that you have sacrificed much to implement that decision, and it is certainly commendable to strive so hard to live by your principals (which I do for other, and I believe also commendable principals, as well). You do not know my experience, and so I shared it. In my experience, daycare has been a blessing. The teachers are loving and have partnered with my husband and I to raise a wonderful, kind, loving, strong, happy person. She has not been institutionalized.

    I feel an immense bond with my daughter, I love her very much, and she loves me and knows I will always be there for her. I’m not in competition with you (I’m not interested in a breast-feed-off), and I do not believe deep in my heart that I am a heartless bitch – I actually believe that I am doing what’s best for my daughter and family. I don’t for a minute doubt that you have such a strong bond with your kids as well, and that you are doing what you feel is best for your family.

  31. If you are trying to say that day care is better than a mom taking care of her own, you are deluding yourself and deep down inside, you know it.

    But it’s not a choice between one and the other. The fact that a child spends some time at daycare doesn’t mean the mother is not ever ‘taking care’ of that child. We’re not talking about children being handed over at birth to be raised by an institution with no contact ever with their parents! In my experience most families manage with a combination of parents (often working part time, flexible hours, or remotely from home), family such as grandparents and maybe local friends with children of their own, and paid help (daycare, nanny etc), with the parents taking overall responsibility for ensuring that the child is safe and well cared for at all times.

    ‘Taking care of’ your child doesn’t necessarily require spending every minute of every day in the same room as the child. I can’t see that daycare is any worse than sending your child to school or summer camp, or to music or dance lessons, and certainly can’t be called ‘farming out’ any more than these things are. Every child is different, of course, and you have to make the choices you think best for your own family. But in general I think it’s good for a child to spend time in different environment and be able to socialise with other kids and adults, and to have the opportunity for activities and experiences that aren’t always possible in the home. It’s not healthy for you or the child for you to constantly hover over them.

  32. i breast feed my youngest for 3.5 years and have such an incredible touchy-feely bond w/ her as a result….not possible if I were working

    So you were on welfare for three and a half years, Diane? And I wouldn’t talk too much about your “touchy-feely bond” after your promotion of child abuse.

    You kid is OK despite daycare, not because of it…

    A child abuser who thinks an 11-year-old girl who was raped by her uncle is a “woman attempting to escape the consequences of having immoral sex”, pretends she can have a viable opinion about child welfare?

  33. Here’s a cookie, Diane. Try not to choke on it whilst dismounting from your high horse.

    You are a hypocrite because you are raising your kids in a home without their dad, and yet you insist that “kids do best in families with mom and dad, so I don’t support same sex couples rearing kids.”

    It is not a “fact” that kids do better with SAHMs. Not all women who SAH are good moms. Ever watched Supernanny?

  34. Oh, fuck me, Diane, I had a whole lotta reasoned type stuff to put up against your pap, but I don’t have the energy to chisel my way into your closed mind today.

    3. there are a lot of things that we are obligated to do that we don’t like and housework is one of them. When we have older kids, I think they should do the housework, too. I don’t think dads should do housework after working all day, except if the mom MUST work all day, too and then in that case, the work at home should be split

    So, mother and dad both work, say, from nine to six. Then mother works another few hours on top of that. Don’t quite understand how that works out for fairness. Also, it gives male children the idea that they won’t have to do housework.

    4. yes, i have kids. One is at summer camp right now swimming in a river for 2 weeks. . .

    I hope they at least let him out for meals.

  35. @Diane

    You do realize that you and your family are unusually fortunate in being able to make the kind of decisions that you have made? The overwhelming majority of American women do not have the ability to choose whether to be a full-time mother, versus a mother who also works outside of the home. Most women must work, not for fancy luxury items but for the basics. The power-professional mothers, with well paid spouses, at your child’s private school are not the norm (not that there is anything wrong with a mother being career driven). In this context your argument is beside the point. It seems as if you want to shame working moms, most of whom just aren’t as lucky as you. Enough with the mommy wars already.

  36. Diane…

    Actually… if you did a tiny bit of research you would find that it’s not a mom and a dad in the house that does better, it’s any combination of TWO parents. In fact, there is evidence that children coming from same sex parents are more well rounded and open minded then other children. So… you should worry much more about your kids coming from a broken home being raised by a single mom then my future children who will have two mommies.

    Let me ask you a question…. what if the mom works and the dad stays home? How do you feel about that?

  37. That’s a great set of links.

    I’m confused about this though:

    through the anecdotes and interviews, she made it clear that for a lot of families, equal division of labor and childcare is an economic privilege, and that the “choice” to have a less equal division is more about financial realities than feminist beliefs.

    I didn’t see any acknowledgment by Belkin that being female, whether rich or poor, necessitates doing more than 50% of the housework for a woman, where both parties work. Am I missing something?

  38. Diane, so when the U.S. government put women to work and kids in government subsidized care during WW2, should women said, to hell with the country? You have the attitude, that if I can do it so can everyone else. Wake up and smell the coffee that not all are made the same. Just because your kid can read early does not mean you are so great a teacher. Not everyone performs to the same standards as children, women and men. You strike me as the type that would limit men as well as women. Nothing will ever take the blinders off the sides of your head. I hope your kids don’t grow up to resent you and you can’t control that no matter what you believe. And yes I am judging.

Comments are currently closed.