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Progressive Views on Sex Offender Release Programs

I am all for critiques of the prison industrial complex. I am all for critiques of the post-incarceration revenue machine that props up entire industries through parolee dollars. And, while this may surprise some readers, I am even all for re-structuring sex offender release rules that make it nearly impossible for sex offenders to re-enter society in any meaningful way.* I am all for progressives and social justice advocates writing about these issues.

But, damn, why do they have to pit one social justice cause against another? The article starts out telling the anecdote of “Stokes,” an old Willie Nelson look-alike who is in his 60s and can’t go to the grocery store, visit parks, drink beer, look at Playboy or visit his own grandchild. Why? Because:

Got caught by police in a, shall we say, “a vehicular sexual incident” with a married woman. They were both drunk, big deal. That happens in beer joints. To make a long story short, by the time they got to court, the lady’s testimony was that it was all against her will, which being a married woman, solved a lot of problems for her. That resulted in Stokes being convicted as a sex offender, while his public defender all but slept through the trial.

Ah, of course: Because bitches lie about being raped.

Compounding Stokes’ problems is that he had an unregistered handgun in the car, so he was prosecuted for armed sexual abduction. And you know, if this is actually what happened, then yes, that sucks. But I’m bothered by the author’s complete willingness to disregard the woman’s story and the jury’s verdict and simply decide, based on what his old friend Stokes told him, that Stokes clearly did nothing wrong until some broad screwed him over with her lying ways. I’m bothered by it on the obvious feminist grounds — the easy assumption that the woman was lying, the automatic taking of the man’s word over hers despite the fact that a jury (who actually had a chance to hear both sides and evaluate the evidence) found him to be guilty, the rape apologism, etc etc — but I’m also bothered by it as someone who does believe in reforming these laws. The example the author gives has no good policy solution. The guy got a trial, and while it’s clear that the author thinks his counsel was inadequate, I don’t see anything supporting that (other than he “all but slept through the trial,” which doesn’t tell us much). And reform of the laws governing attorney incompetence aren’t what the author is focusing on anyway — he wants to reform post-incarceration sex offender regulations. And in that case, Stokes’ back story shouldn’t matter all that much: Either these rules are unjust for the people they apply to, or they aren’t. Now, I see that his point is that the entire prison industrial complex is problematic, but the complex itself has very little to do with the basic mistakes of justice that the author claims happened to his neighbor. If Stokes had actually committed the crime he was found guilty of (and he may have, we don’t know), would all the requirements imposed on him after he served his time be valid? If not, then there’s really no need to include the whole “He didn’t really do it” back story (except to make Stokes seem more sympathetic, which is a fine strategy, but is bound to backfire among progressives when it comes on the backs of other ill-treated groups). But if the restrictions would have been valid if he had actually done what he was convicted of, and they’re only problematic because he says he didn’t, then there is really no solution other than totally scrapping jury and indigent defense and going with something else. I’m pretty sure that’s not what the author is arguing.

Sex offenders are the least sympathetic criminal defendants — and make no mistake about it, I also have very little sympathy for rapists or child molesters or most other sex offenders. But they are still people deserving of basic human rights and liberties after they’ve paid their debt to society. And even if you don’t give two craps about what they deserve, it is infinitely better for society to have them mainstreamed and rehabilitated as much as possible rather than marginalized with nothing to lose. The best situation, I think, is some form of punitive punishment coupled with rehabilitation, counseling and check-ins. But balancing the harms is tough; the article mentions one example where the Arizona homeless shelter system contemplated kicking out all sex offenders, and the author posited that doing so would leave authorities unable to track the legitimately dangerous sex offenders, which in turn would be much more dangerous for society as a whole. What the author doesn’t mention is that their are other people in those shelters — women, children and men who are potential victims. Sexual assault survival rates among homeless people — especially women and LGBT people — are significantly higher than the general population. Their safety is a legitimate concern, too. So I’m troubled by some of the simplistic structuring of arguments in favor of loosening post-incarceration restrictions for convicted sex offenders — those arguments too often ignore the very real concerns of other marginalized groups.

Or, worse, they subvert the concerns and experiences of other marginalized groups to serve a very narrow interest. The “rape victims lie” meme is an easy one to exploit because so many people believe it — and so many people will feel bad for poor Stokes over the nameless, faceless, voiceless woman who testified that the sex was non-consensual. But it undermines the actual issue at hand, and splinters support for what is otherwise an important cause.

So I find myself disappointed yet again by progressive activists who forget that women are people, too, and who are all too willing to vilify or simply ignore us to make their point. It’s particularly frustrating when the point is a valuable one — and when, here, the author addresses the numerous and seldom-discussed ways that prisoners and parolees are financially sucked dry by an increasingly privatized and thoroughly capitalist prison system. You don’t need misogyny to do make that point. But if you dare wade into the comments, you’ll see that that’s exactly what people are latching onto (in variations of “A sex offender can be someone who had consensual sex, as in the article, with someone who later regrets their consent for whatever reason and decides to press charges for date rape,” which, yes, is a direct quote from the comment section).

It’s not ok to bolster one progressive cause by throwing another group of people under the bus. That isn’t social justice, it’s self-interest.
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*This is a whole ‘nother post, but in general, I’m opposed to the current construction of the law that groups all kinds of sex offenders together into a single group and require them all to register and disclose their status. There are some common-sense measures that I can better understand — like having groups with high recidivism rates, like child molesters or rapists, register in a public database; or (obviously) disallowing people with child molestation convictions to work with kids. But I am troubled when people who commit non-violent offenses — getting caught with a prostitute, for example — are branded as sex offenders. Now, to be quite honest, I dislike the fact that men visit prostitutes, and I think it’s wrong. But I don’t believe that everything I personally think is wrong needs to brand people for life (or even be illegal in the first place).


47 thoughts on Progressive Views on Sex Offender Release Programs

  1. Immensely sensible response on your part to an exasperating article; I share your concern for the well-being of sex offenders, and for designing policies that hold the safety of the community and the rights of the offender as equally important.

  2. Ya know…

    If Stoke’s encounter was consensual, this was a classic prisoner’s dillema…

    carry on…

  3. I so agree with your last paragraph about slumping all “sex offenders” into one group.

    I’ve known friends who have been called sex offenders cos they were caught mooning in public, and people think that they must have molested a child or raped someone when they never did. It’s stupid and unjust for many prisoners who are unfairly slumped in the same group as paedophiles and rapists (i have no sympathy for paedophiles or rapists).

  4. Really? Worse than murderers?

    Yeah, I think so. And I think that’s the general perception — that rapists and child molesters are the worst of the worst.

  5. I’ve known friends who have been called sex offenders cos they were caught mooning in public […]

    It’s been a long time, so I can’t provide a source, but I once read about a man who had to register as a sex offender. His crime? He was drunk and peeing in public, which meant he had “exposed” himself.

  6. And I think that’s the general perception — that rapists and child molesters are the worst of the worst.

    I’d be very curious to see if anyone’s ever researched that question (“What’s the worst crime a person can commit?”). Personally, I’ve always considered taking a life to be not just worse than any other crime you can commit, but qualitatively worse.

  7. Sex offenders convicted of pedophilia or rape should do their entire lives behind bars. Fuck this “rehabilitation” bullshit. It clearly doesnt work, and by “work” I mean extremely low recidivism rates on the order of less than 5%. The current rehab programs all boast about how they drop the recidivism rates. What they dont tell you is that the drop is from a baseline of 90% recidivism to maybe 70%. Thats not even close to being good enough to justify release of these predators back into society.

  8. But I am troubled when people who commit non-violent offenses — getting caught with a prostitute, for example — are branded as sex offenders.

    I’m off-topicly responding to your off-topic endnote. Oops.

    In Louisiana, and probably other states, any prostitute who gets busted and convicted must register as a sex offender. Louisiana probably has as many prostitutes and their clients in their database as they do predators!

    I am totally with you on this.

  9. Actually there’s some disagreement with whether sex offenders have a higher recividism rate than other criminal offenders. The perception is that they have a higher rate but some stats. show the opposite including this one.

    It’s often very problematic because the stats. for recividism are based on arrests (whereas that may or may not indicate commission of a crime) and/or sentencing to prison (i.e. using phrasing “return or sent back to prison”).

    Yeah, I think so. And I think that’s the general perception — that rapists and child molesters are the worst of the worst.

    Child molesters, probably. I’m not convinced this is true for rapists of adult women. There’s still a lot of women that society and law enforcement believe can’t be raped.

  10. The current rehab programs all boast about how they drop the recidivism rates. What they dont tell you is that the drop is from a baseline of 90% recidivism to maybe 70%. Thats not even close to being good enough to justify release of these predators back into society.

    Where are you getting a stat that says 70-90 percent of sex offenders re-offend? It is very high — higher than most other violent crimes, which is why I think increased post-incarceration monitoring is justified — but I don’t think it’s that high.

    Which isn’t to say that there are serious problems with the rehabilitation programs. They often don’t work, which leads us to a lot of tough choices.

  11. Sorry to run counter to the general consensus, but I think true sexual offenders (not mooners or the like) gave up most if not all of their rights the moment they laid that unwelcome hand–or other body part–on a child or other victim. Statistics consistently show they are incorrigible recidivists. The best thing for society is to lock them up and throw away the key–one strike and you’re out. I frankly don’t care what’s best for them.

  12. Personally, I’ve always considered taking a life to be not just worse than any other crime you can commit, but qualitatively worse.

    The suffering of a murder victim ends with the conclusion of the crime against them. The suffering of a sexual abuse victim lasts a lifetime.

  13. Sure, Farish, be that way…

    Just remember that the attitude then transfers to the people with the weakest legal representation. Retributive emphasis in judicial proceedings have tended to do that, you know…Eye for an eye for the commoners, a few coins thrown into the dust for the elites.

  14. Yeah, I think so. And I think that’s the general perception — that rapists and child molesters are the worst of the worst.

    Child molesters, probably. I’m not convinced this is true for rapists of adult women. There’s still a lot of women that society and law enforcement believe can’t be raped.

    There’s lots of kids that society and law enforcement believe can’t be raped. I was told I wasn’t raped – that I must have participated – when I was raped at 4 years old, because my rapist was another child.

    Personally, having lived through it, I would much rather be murdered than raped. I don’t know though, if that means that society thinks rapists are worse than murderers. Most people I encounter, who haven’t been raped, think murderers are worse. About 80-90% of people who were raped, however, think rapists are worst, in my experience. So…make of that personal anecdote what you will.

  15. Sex offenders convicted of pedophilia or rape should do their entire lives behind bars.

    Yes. If you hate women and children enough (clearly over 50% of the population) to do something that horrible to one, I don’t think that there’s much that can be done for you in terms of rehabilitation. You just need to be kept away….a long way away from them.

  16. Fuck this “rehabilitation” bullshit. It clearly doesnt work, and by “work” I mean extremely low recidivism rates on the order of less than 5%.
    The current rehab programs all boast about how they drop the recidivism rates. What they dont tell you is that the drop is from a baseline of 90% recidivism to maybe 70%.

    Ah, statistics from the department of Numbers I Pulled Out of My Ass… let’s try something a tiny bit more supportable, the Wikipedia entry on recidivism. The USDoJ study is now 8 years old, and only tracked offenders over 3 years, but the highest rate of recidivism was for “property crimes”, not sex crimes.

    A ’97 study cited here cites a 52% recidivism rate for child molesters over a 25 year period. The trouble with that stat is that it’s over a 25 year period. As you increase the time frame for any crime, all recidivism rates rise.

    Statistics consistently show they are incorrigible recidivists.

    Again, no citation, just rhretoric. Statistics show that on a long enough time frame, most once-convicted criminals are incorrigible recidivists. The issue isn’t recidivsim per se, it’s the nature of the crime itself. No one is up in arms over a 70% recidivism rate for robbery (Wikipedia article take from ’94 DoJ study) because, relatively speaking, people do not have the strong emotional reaction to robbery, and as a crime, robbery affects property more than persons.

    Every person that talks about locking up sex-offenders forever due to the risk of re-offending are rationalizing a desire for sex-offenders to simply be locked up forever. (or killed)

    If you think sex crimes merit a capital sentance, just come out and say it. (and make the case for it!) But hiding behind rationalizations about recidivism just obscure the underlying issues about what constitutes “justice” and “punishment”.

  17. I hear you. I wrote about something along these lines once before – how accusations of sex offences compare to accusations of terrorism, and how we on the left would like to think of these as two separate issues that evoke separate responses – but in reality we’re talking about the same people. Not even the same sort of people but the same individual people; the Operation Kratos anti-terrorism squad in London has shot exactly two people, both of whom turned out to be innocent of terrorism…and both of whom were promptly charged with sex crimes. Charges that were soon refuted by clear-cut forensic evidence.

    Sorry for the aside. But here, I see commenters like Farish and al343sw talking about removing the rights of sex offenders. And I think of the people who were imprisoned in the 21/7 trial, for (unsuccessfully, thank the gods) attempting to be suicide bombers. They were imprisoned for far, far longer than rape convicts are. Whatever individuals think, the State regards attempted terrorism – not actual terrorism, but merely the incompetent failed attempt to kill dozens of people – as far worse than rape, even though they merely scared people and didn’t wind up harming anyone (except Jean Charles de Menezes, anyway). So you lock each of those men up for 20 years and then…let them go and expect them to get on with their lives? What’s the reoffending rate for suicide bombers? Can we, as a society, deal with having these people living freely among us again?

    I think that rape convicts and terrorism convicts walk over a lot of the same ground, and that it’s worth our time to look at them side by side, without apologising for either, but just asking how the hell we’re going to deal with these people without compromising our own values or engaging in life-destroying hypocrisies.

    As for sexual offenders registers – remember the UK CJB that recently banned possession of ‘extreme pornography’? The penalty is 3 years imprisonment plus being on the sex offenders register. So anyone, male or female, who possesses even a single image that shows two consenting adults indulging in sexual violence will be put on the sex offenders register.

    The government is considering an amendment that would let you off if one of the consenting adults in your photo is you. Til then, you can get registered for life for having a dirty photo of YOURSELF. I think that’s worth criticising, personally.

  18. I am sorry that I don’t have statistics or studies on hand, but aren’t there very few people who want to work with sex offenders, and that is one of the problems with rehabilitating sex offenders?

  19. A ‘97 study cited here cites a 52% recidivism rate for child molesters over a 25 year period. The trouble with that stat is that it’s over a 25 year period. As you increase the time frame for any crime, all recidivism rates rise.

    How is that problematic? That just means it is more accurate.

  20. I’ve known friends who have been called sex offenders cos they were caught mooning in public

    Actually, several years ago (maybe 10 by now) in Rolling Stone’s spring break issue, they specifically told you not to get arrested for public indecency in Arizona since you’d have to register as a sex offender.

    My problem with sex offender registries is that they ignore the reality of sexual assault: most people are assaulted by someone they know. How is a registry going to help?

  21. This is a great article, but I have one nit to pick, in the spirit of the article:

    But they are still people deserving of basic human rights and liberties after they’ve paid their debt to society.

    No, they deserve basic human rights and liberties even while incarcerated. That’s what inalienable means. I’m not sure what I think about punitive vs. recuperative measures; I really don’t know enough about the issues to weigh in in any meaningful fashion.

    However, the concept of basic, inalienable rights and liberties guaranteed to all humanity is important, and as soon as we start drawing lines in the sand where the inalienable becomes alienated, we know we’ve done something wrong. Either we got our set of inalienable rights wrong, or, more likely, we’ve allowed our thinking to relax with regard to the Other for our own (Lizard-Brained-)benefit.

  22. “My problem with sex offender registries is that they ignore the reality of sexual assault: most people are assaulted by someone they know. How is a registry going to help?”

    Um…by letting you know that you don’t want to get to know that person in the first place? It’s kind of like if a friend of a friend turns up wearing a shirt that says “NO MEANS have aNOther drink.” You’re alerted right off the bat.

    It’s not a silver bullet, but, done properly, it can help people avoid known predators.

  23. No, they deserve basic human rights and liberties even while incarcerated. That’s what inalienable means.

    Well… obviously they deserve basic human rights while incarcerated, but it’s a little hard to argue that they deserve liberty. If they deserved liberty, they wouldn’t be incarcerated. And the statement that life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are inalienable comes from the Declaration of Independence, not from the Constitution. According to the Constitution, people should not “be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” In other words, you can be deprived of your life, your liberty or your property with due process.

    I personally think we should take the “life” aspect of that — I’m anti-death penalty in all cases — but I think it’s harder to make the case that the government has no right at all to deprive you of your liberty, even if you break the social contract.

  24. I find this discussion to be really interesting. As a feminist and a woman who is concerned with the rights of all people–including criminals–I have always been very frustrated to encounter progressive women who are on the exact same page as me when it comes to criminal justice issues, except when it comes to rape (of adults and children). Somehow women who are otherwise against the death penalty, or the way the prison system generally works are ready to take this one group of people and stick a needle in their arms or lock them up and throw away the key. Not to mention what happens to these people post-incarceration–there is tons of literature that shows that the restrictions placed on released sex offenders does little more than harm them and put potential victims at greater risk. Residency restrictions for example routinely (as Jill mentioned) force released offenders to go underground where parole officers cannot keep tabs on them, and being forced out of major cities also forces them away from stable social units, family, jobs, and therapy–all things that might actually help decrease recidivism rates. monitoring sex offenders with gps systems (like CA does) costs an incredible amount of money and has absolutely not been proven to decrease the rate of recidivism. We simply do not handle this issue well in our country, but law after law continues to punish sex offenders post-release, not because it’s proven to make people safer but because politicians get to look “tough on crime” if they propose them.

    I guess I’ve gotten off track–the point is that as a society we generally have what I consider to be a pretty disgusting take on punishment–we exile people. We spend all of our resources removing people from our society and spend little to none on trying to rehabilitate or reintegrate them into our society. are there going to be people who will rape murder and steal no matter what? yes. do they deserve to be punished and kept away from innocent civilians in one way or another? sure. but we consistently lump all offenders together, and because we have no functional, standardized systems of rehabilitation, we will never really learn how to distinguish. It seems to me that if we are going to be all holier than thou about human rights, about creating communities in which everyone is respected and has a place, we better figure out how the fuck to include EVERYONE. Or just be comfortable being hypocrites.

  25. The reason nobody likes rehab programs for sexual predators is because they DONT FUCKING WORK! We’ve had hundreds of feel good rehab programs come and go thru the decades, and the results have been dismal.

  26. The reason nobody likes rehab programs for sexual predators is because they DONT FUCKING WORK! We’ve had hundreds of feel good rehab programs come and go thru the decades, and the results have been dismal.

    So the answer is to… lock them up forever? Many criminals re-offend eventually. Should we lock them all up forever after the first offense?

  27. I don’t understand why longer studies on recidivism rate is a bad thing? are you saying it’s better not to count some of the crimes, so we can all feel better? I agree that registry laws are pretty much horrible and useless if not actively counterproductive for reasons that have been said here, but yes, let me say that for rape/ child molestation I think 52% is too much. I do think there’s enough of a societal interest in protecting kids from that to keep people locked up til we have a system of treatment that works. I know, it’s not the general progressive “lessen the prison industrial complex” theory that we see on this blog, but I have never denied it. my problem with these laws is both in terms of useful effects and the “you’ve paid your debt but not really” hypocracy.

  28. Marle,

    The full text of the law reads “appears to threaten life” or “likely to result in serious injury to the anus, breasts or genitals”, and is “realistic” (i.e. it can be entirely fake). It is quite incorrect to say that this does not affect “safe, sane and consensual”, because images and movies fitting the above criteria are regularly made in Hollywood every year, to the point where a special exemption had to be included in the law to ensure that material passed by the British Board of Film Classification is not affected!

    It is probably enough to “appear” life threatening, if I hold a fake knife to someone’s throat, as long as the knife looks real when we take a photograph or video. I honestly don’t know where my quicksand fetish videos will stand in the light of this new law, either.

    You say, “This law puts videos like that (horse raping a woman) on the level as child porn. which is a good thing.” The problem is that it puts a whole lot of other stuff on the same level as child porn as well, and that is NOT a good thing. Frankly, as you point out, if that video is real and not faked, then it is evidence of a murder and that should be the primary concern; also, it is quite possible to make a law that targets only material that is definitely real, and not material that is fake.

  29. Jill, I share some of your concerns regarding bageant’s article. However, I wouldn’t let it put you off Joe Bageant’ stuff in general. If you’ve never read his blog, he’s got some great essays posted there. Usually his stuff is posted at Counterpunch, Dissident voice, etc., but I noticed his byline appearing at Alternet recently.

    http://www.joebageant.com/

  30. On the topic of “rehab programmes”, I wonder exactly what these programmes involved.

    I found interesting the Methodist Church of Great Britain and their approach to sex offenders, which is worth reading in full, but the important part as far as recidivism is concerned, is this:

    Several of those who gave evidence to the working party suggested that sex offending could be seen as an addiction, in some ways like alcoholism. (While there are similarities between sex offending and alcoholism and other addictions, there is a major difference in so far as the main victim of sex offending is, of course, not the offender.) An offender cannot claim to be ‘recovered’ but might be described as ‘recovering’. As with the Alcoholics Anonymous’ twelve steps programme, a person needs ongoing awareness and ongoing support. It is important that the offender’s memory of what he did continues.

    The following is a summary of the factors that are currently believed to reduce the risk of re-offending. These factors merely indicate a reduced likelihood of re-offending. No single factor in itself indicates reduced risk.

    * First time conviction.
    * Realizing the enormity of what they have done, admitting their responsibility and the harm their sexual violence has caused.
    * Completion of treatment.
    * Support from family and friends on release.
    * Establishment of a social network.
    * Avoidance of situations involving contact with children.
    * Participation in ongoing treatment and agreement to monitoring.

    The article goes on to describe a policy designed to protect the vulnerable while at the same time providing sex offenders after release to be able to become fully-functioning members of society.

    (In my related search, I also found several official government statistics that show that sex offender reoffending is lower than for other types of offence)

  31. With regard to the british law being discussed, there’s absolutely a chilling effect from that on certain activities on the extremes of the BDSM and body mod communities. I’ve certainly seen CBT pictures on Modblog that “result in serious injury to the genitals”. It’s out there, people enjoy it, and I don’t think society should put a stop to it.

  32. Well… obviously they deserve basic human rights while incarcerated, but it’s a little hard to argue that they deserve liberty. If they deserved liberty, they wouldn’t be incarcerated.

    I only included liberties to reflect the original quote. Poetic license and all that. However, I think there’s not a lot of difference between rights and liberties, if any. Liberty isn’t a monolith. We have many different liberties. Some people have more than others. Incarcerated people obviously don’t have as many as the rest of us, whether for good or ill.

    Part of the government’s job is to deprive people of certain liberties (screaming “FIRE!” in a theater, being the quintessential example). Where I start to question things is when certain classes of people (prisoners in this example) start to lose freedoms categorized as universal and inalienable (by my standards, dammit!)

    I wanted to call out a minor issue in an otherwise excellent article, because I saw traces of verminification there. I’m not accusing you, particularly, of doing so, but I thought it was easy to read what you wrote and interpret it that way, and thought I should speak up to try and keep that from happening.

  33. Snowdrop,
    A fake knife, or even a real one, in a video would not appear life threatening because a knife can’t kill anyone unless you stab someone with it. The law is designed for those videos that leave people wondering if the participants were actually ok afterwards. While yes, those videos would be evidence of a murder or rape or assault, how would you find these people in the majority of cases? Child porn is evidence of child rape, but when we can’t find the children in the videos we don’t just shrug our shoulders and say, ok, go enjoy the videos.

    As for fake videos, if one has the resources to be able to make something look like a real murder or serious assault on video when it wasn’t, then there’s generally some kind of record or way to track that down, hence the BBFC exception. But personally, and I think I might be an exception here, I think that downloading a video that looks like child porn or a snuff film without any idea whether or not it’s real is just as bad as downloading one that you’re sure is. So I think if someone is found with videos that look like child porn (as in, actual children, not “she looks like she might be 17”) or where the people look like they were seriously injured or may have died, and that person can’t provide reasonable evidence that it is reasonable to believe they were faked (for example, if they bought it from a website that says it was faked, then the cops should investigate the website, and hold them, not the customers, accountable) then I think they should be charged and convicted as if they were real.

    I don’t know about your quicksand fetish videos, either. But I do think that if you’re getting it from reputable people who ensure the safety of their porn stars then the law shouldn’t affect you.

    The law might not be wroded the best, but it all depends on how the courts interpret it. Sometimes the more nitpicky, carefully worded laws get interpreted terribly when a case comes up that the authors of the law never thought of (like that guy getting 10 years for a blowjob from a girl 2 years younger than him because the lawmakers didn’t think of that when writing a law against sodomizing kids) while the courts can have more freedom with vaguer laws to only apply them to situations that the lawmakes originally intended. I know that’s not much comfort, but we won’t really know until some cases are decided.

  34. About 80-90% of people who were raped, however, think rapists are worst, in my experience.

    It is, of course, harder to sample the opinions of murder victims.

  35. I believe that rapists are worse than murderers even though I believe that murder is a worse crime than rape, because I don’t know the circumstances of the murders.

    If a man kills his wife because he is an abusive son of a bitch, he is worse than a rapist. If a woman kills her husband because he is an abusive son of a bitch, she is a victim trying to escape. Both are murderers. Therefore you can’t actually classify the category “murderers” as worse than rapists because there are legitimate reasons to murder and because murder can be accidental. Also, you can murder someone instantly, in seconds, which makes any defense of “crime of passion” hold more water with me than rape, an act which inevitably takes at least a few minutes.

    There is never a legitimate reason to rape anyone. If there was, I might think differently about it. (For instance, in Star Trek Vulcans in mating season must have sex or they’ll die. One *could* make a case for rape being less reprehensible than murder if you’ll die unless you commit it. However, in real life, we humans are *never* in that situation.) I can cheerfully classify all rapists as scum because not one single one of them had a good reason or even an understandable bad reason for what they did. If you’re arguing with a person and you shove them down the stairs and they break their neck, you’re a murderer. And you’re not a good person, or you wouldn’t have shoved, but most humans can commit sudden acts of impulsive violence without thinking through what the end result might be. A single shove is more understandable from a “I was angry and got carried away and did something impulsive, violent and stupid and didn’t have time to think out the consequences of my acts” than pinning down a struggling person and forcing intercourse on them for several minutes.

    There are certainly murderers who I think are worse than rapists. There’s a guy I read about who killed two of his baby children, in two different relationships, for life insurance money — they only pinned the first murder on him after he committed the second, because the unexplainable suffocation death of a baby looks just like SIDS. He’s worse than a rapist. A person who murders a spouse because they want to be free to start a new life, in a world where divorce is pretty easy, is pretty fucking reprehensible. Someone who participates in the beating death of a gay man, or a black man, or any other hate crime death, is worse than a rapist. The woman who denied her friend’s 2-year-old, who she was babysitting for a month because the mother was sick, water for a week to punish him for wetting the bed and thus ended up killing him… she was worse than a rapist.

    But a woman who premeditates the murder of her abusive husband because she knows abusers chase down and kill victims who escape them? A man who gets drunk and hits a pedestrian? A person who believes that a neighbor molested his child and so kills the neighbor? A person who shoves another person in the heat of anger, and that person falls and breaks their neck? Those people are not necessarily good people, but they’re not as bad as rapists.

  36. there are legitimate reasons to murder

    No, there aren’t. Self-defence is not murder. If you are abused in such a way that it’s impossible to walk away instead of killing, that would be self-defence. I think that the number of those cases is incredibly slight. I also see no reason to apologise for women who kill when they could have walked away; I sympathise greatly and I think they should have a reduced tariff, but that doesn’t make it any less wrong.

    and because murder can be accidental.

    No, it can’t. That’s manslaughter.

  37. wow. i agree that sex offenders shouldn’t be bunched together. that is why they have the tier system. Florida has already done away with the Romeo and Juliet laws as sex offender placement. I can’t find one document supporting the fact that someone was on the registry for mooning or peeing in public…I just can’t!

    IMO nobody wants to believe the friendly neighbor really raped a toddler so he tells them it was because him and his buddies were out parting and mooned somebody…well of course, that makes more sense, he is such a nice guy! Poor guy now is a sex offender, just isn’t fair. am i right?

    Dismiss the victim. How does this make victims feel? Like they don’t matter. This is the problem with our society right now. The victims are not getting the help they need and deserve. And we are crying poor sex offenders? They chose their action, their victim did not.

    Then we have the child molesters. IMO they should NEVER see the light of day. How dare they take the innocent from a child, a toddler, a baby. How dare they! And until Jessica’s Law most were only getting a slap on the wrist. What kind of justice for that child is that? How does it make the child feel knowing the person who did these horrible things to them is still walking the streets?

    Look at so many websites like youtube is crawling with pedophiles just look at the video The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children put out and then look at the sick comments.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIp3NuUh-Y

    These people only see children as sex toys. Child molesters should never be allowed around children ever again. Allowing this type of sex offender around children is like taking an alcoholic to a wine testing.

  38. The reason so many otherwise-liberal women would be more than happy to throw the switch or poke the needle is because we have been raped and/or molested. Some more than once. In my experience, and from random sampling, the number approaches 80% of women.

    Count me in on the switch-throwing.

    I’m not unhappy to say my molester is permanently incarcerated and confined to a wheelchair the rest of his miserable, pain-ridden life.

  39. Great commentary. You are so correct about sex offenders being viewed as lower than murderers. Our society has completely dehumanized them. This should be of concern to women for a myriad of reasons. It was not long ago that women were completely objectified. We are still fighting that. The amount of disinformation out there regarding sex offenders could fill a book… and it HAS filled hundreds of studies and research papers. There has been an explosion of research in the last 10 years regarding sex offenders and sex offense. The problem is that most of it is being ignored. It does not benefit the Media to print the truth..not sensational enough. It does not benefit the politicians to tell the truth, it does not get the easy votes by appearing “tough” on sex offenders. Meanwhile it is the very people we are trying to protect that bear the brunt of this misinformation. The laws we have passed in the name of safety do more harm than good. World renowned treatment specialists and researchers have found that treatment DOES work. It reduces an already low re offense rate by half. Residency restrictions do NOT work. Any one with an ounce of common sense would realize that. What possible good does telling someone where they can lay their head to sleep at night, when the children are home in their beds, do to protect anyone? The only thing that does is to make homeless, hopeless, sex offenders. Nobody cares if a sex offender has a home, a family, a job, security, support system, but they damn well should! THAT is the way to reduce re offense…not pushing them to the margins of society and giving them nothing to lose. We need to DEMAND that our legislators and our media tell us the TRUTH. We need to stop looking behind the bushes, on the registry and look in our family photo albums for the next person who will commit sexual abuse.

  40. “The reason nobody likes rehab programs for sexual predators is because they DONT FUCKING WORK! We’ve had hundreds of feel good rehab programs come and go thru the decades, and the results have been dismal.”

    Are you out of your mind, or are you an idiot? The DoJ study had an over all re-offense of 3.5% to 5% , NOT 51% as was stated above. Add on top of that IF an offender is allowed to attend therapy, it takes another 4% of the population left in the 3.5 to 5% population out of the equation. You people and the numbers that you pull out of thin air are incredible. Sex Offenders are completely capable of rehabilitation. Just as someone on DUI is as well.

    The continued draconain practice of public shaming and humiliation has got to stop. up to 96% of offenders will never re-offend again! You people treat all sexual offenders as if they are PREDATORS… Which they are not. Many are on the registry for age issues (19 to 16, etc) or for peeing in public, having sex in public (even being seen through a windows on accident), sending THEIR OWN picture to a boyfriend or girlfriend while they were underage. You act as if sex offenders are all hiding in bushes when in reality, 90% of all sexual offenders KNEW their victim. Dad, MOM, uncle Earl, Aunt Clare, The brother, the sister, the nice man at the school, Mr Jenkins the Grocer… only 10% of sex crimes are committed by total strangers.

    What needs happen is thoughtful legislation dealing with the most Vile of the true Predators. The ones that hunt down and really HARM others. Not the guy that picks up the really cute 19 year old at the bar, only to ind out in a month she was there on her sister’s ID.. Her Older sisters ID. (that is a true scenario, there is no defense of guilt for that situation either).

    If you want to protect your children go out and do the REAL research, not what O’Reily or Greta or Nancy Grace tells you. Check the Abel report, or the Department of Justice reports. Stop believing the garbage that your Legislators tell you to pander you for votes, go out and get the true information.

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