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Ellen takes on John McCain on marriage equality

Jill

I have mentioned that I love Ellen, right?

Seriously, good on her. There are big-time reporters who wouldn’t be this direct and challenging.

And I love how uncomfortable he gets when pushed on the fact that he attempted to actively deny the woman sitting next to him the right to marry the person she loves. Politicians should be directly confronted with the fact that this isn’t just a political issue that you can use to score votes; it’s an issue that affects people. And if you’re a bigot in a position of power, at some point you’re going to have to sit next to one of the people you harmed. I’m glad John McCain had to do that in front of a whole lot of those “average Americans” whose votes he’d like to get. I’m glad Ellen was courageous enough to challenge him and to personalize it.

37 thoughts on Ellen takes on John McCain on marriage equality

  1. He was also smart enough not to try to articualte a reason. He just said he disagrees, he didn’t say why. Because there is no good answer. She closed off “tradition” by referencing the historic reservation of the vote to white men (not to mention the reservation of marriage to people of the same race): injustice does not gain legitimacy from age, at least not logically. And he’s not Huckabee, so he won’t argue that it’s God’s law. So he’s stuck with a “marriage is for procreation” argument, which most people won’t defend if stated outright because it has so many holes in it, or a “will of the people” argument, which when applied to civil rights ends up putting the speaker on the side of every popular historical injustice from the slavery to the trail of tears to the internment of Japanese Americans. So, as a politician, he would prefer to say he takes the same position the bigots take, without explaining why because explaining why makes the bigotry clear.

  2. I thought it was brave of her to do this. Moreover, even though McCain was uncomfortable, he still stuck to his guns about gay marriage–even while sitting next to a woman who he claims to like who he wants to deny that right to. There’s something about someone who can stick to their ideology even in the face of the personalization of the issue that comes with meeting someone who it affects that just chills me. That interview really showed him off for the bigot he is.

  3. She held his feet to the fire almost enough. As far as I knew she would, and more than she ought to have had to, since she’s an entertainer, not a journalist. Good for you, Ellen.

  4. I’m surprised he didn’t prep better for that question to be raised and pursued aggressively. He seemed caught off guard, wouldn’t maintain eye contact, etc. I suspect he actually doesn’t give a flying fuck about this issue, but he knows he has to toe the Republican line. I hope the dyed-in-the-wool social conservatives can smell that a mile away, and keep their distance from him.

  6. HT, he was well prepped. For the reasons I stated above, I don’t think there is a better answer for him. He has to say his position, but never explain it, and seem like he’s apologizing for throwing her under the bus while not actually apologizing for throwing her under the bus.

  8. all i have to say is “GO ELLEN!!!!!!!!”

    i CRIED when i saw her announcment about her upcoming wedding. i mean that, literal tears of joy poured down my face.

    maybe if all the bigots would SHUT UP for a second, they could hear what God is saying – “LOVE”.

    sorry, done babbling now…

  9. That made my day. I love Ellen; I think she’s brilliant and hilarious and, above all, classy.

  10. Go you good thing, Ellen! This is the first time I’ve seen McCain speak and I am now terrified of the possibility of him becoming President. Please tell me it’s not possible!

    Even though Ellen is an entertainer, I think she could also be a good journalist. She knows just how far she can go to make her point, and how to sit back and let him flounder. But I do wonder if any words were exchanged in the green room afterwards…

  11. It’s not like McCain thought he was going to go on that show and she wasn’t going to raise that issue.

    The audiences McCain has been trying to get in front of while Hillary and Barack have been buldgeoning each other are Democratic voters. He’s been going around and listening to people who are very angry about Republican policies.

    He’s willing to go on Ellen and get taken to task for the Republican line on marriage, and he’s gone down to New Orleans to hear from the people there who Bush and FEMA left stranded. You would not see Huckabee or Bush on “Ellen.”

    McCain’s line on marriage is very moderate and much less conservative than Bush’s, and I think that anyone who is pragmatic is going to accept that having a government recognized union, with the rights associated with marriage, is an important victory on the issue whether you call it marriage or not.

    In 2004, Bush was flogging an anti-gay marriage amendment to the Constitution, and now McCain is talking civil unions. In fact, Obama’s position on the issue is very similar to McCain’s.

  12. He didn’t have to go on her show. Give him credit for doing so.
    They have a difference of opinion. There was a time in this country when people could disagree on political issues and respect the opinion of the other person.
    Now we have zealots on both sides of the political spectrum who fail to understand that free speech is a 2 way street.

  13. He didn’t have to go on her show. Give him credit for doing so.

    Uh, no.

    They have a difference of opinion. There was a time in this country when people could disagree on political issues and respect the opinion of the other person.

    Would you respect the “political opinion” of a segregationist? Of someone who thought women shouldn’t have the right to vote or work? Of someone who thought that our immigration laws should unilaterally bar Jews or Italians or Japanese?

    I wouldn’t. I don’t respect “differences of opinion” when the “opinion” is about someone’s basic civil rights. Bigotry doesn’t deserve respect.

  14. McCain’s line on marriage is very moderate and much less conservative than Bush’s, and I think that anyone who is pragmatic is going to accept that having a government recognized union, with the rights associated with marriage, is an important victory on the issue whether you call it marriage or not.

    Hmmm… I wonder what changed politically over the past decade that enables a conservative like McCain to take a relatively moderate position on same-sex unions?

    Maybe — just maybe — it’s because LGBT rights activists pushed hard on the marriage issue and went for the real end goal, not a moderate position. They shifted the definition of “moderate” to a position that would have been unheard of ten years ago. So no, anyone who is “pragmatic” is not going to have to simply accept civil unions; they are going to look at the history of this movement and realize that things can change fast, and that so far, the winning strategy has been to push for what you actually want.

  15. I particularly like how he and his other Republican buddies just end the conversation when it starts to get personal with something dismissive like “I think we respectfully disagree.” Who said we (or in this case, Ellen) respect his opinion anyway?

    (Shameless self promotion, just started a blog )

  16. He didn’t have to go on her show. Give him credit for doing so.
    They have a difference of opinion. There was a time in this country when people could disagree on political issues and respect the opinion of the other person.
    Now we have zealots on both sides of the political spectrum who fail to understand that free speech is a 2 way street.

    But the thing is he refuses to try to justify or explain his opinion. In the face of actual, rational arguments, all he can say is “We have a difference of opinion, and I respect you.” It’s a weak answer. It’s horrible debate strategy reminiscent of this. And there was a time that we actually asked our politicians to justify their positions on issues, rather than just letting them state them and pretend that their values were consistent.

  17. I think that it is awesome that she was direct and to the point with him. He was squirming in his chair and well he should be for advocating from a position of intolerance. Not many would have have had the integrity and the courage to push him the way that Ellen did. Good for her!
    The only draw back in what she said was about Black voting rights. Yes African Americans had the “right” to vote but were precluded from acting on those rights due to the racist Jim Crow laws.

  18. Oh Connie.
    Only one of the people in the clip wants to restrict the other’s civil liberties.
    Why should we respect the “opinion” of someone who supports “separate but equal?” McCain is openly dismissive of his host’s very existance. There is no way to “respectfully disagree” about whether or not gays and lesbians should be second-class citizens.
    How would you feel if someone’s opinion was that you don’t deserve the same civil rights as other law abiding Americans?

  19. Oh WOW… I’ve got to watch Ellen some more now.

    That was completely awesome how she held his feet to the fire, and the only thing he could come back with was “We disagree.” Actual reporters need to do this more often.

  20. He looked so UNCOMFORTABLE…as well he should have! THAT was great. I’m glad she had him on but I’m still sickened that he can continue to maintain his bigotry while addressing the person he is oppressing.

  21. Our love is the same…

    I doubt it, because I have trouble believing that Ellen would use the same words in reference to her wife that John used in reference to his.

  22. There is no way to “respectfully disagree” about whether or not gays and lesbians should be second-class citizens. – SarahMC

    In the same vein, there’s no way you can respectfully condemn someone to second class status.

  23. So where are all the people who rightly criticised the previous Australian government now that the new one has also showed naked homophobia?

    No excuses. GLBT people are *not* less than full citizens.

  24. The I think we respectfully disagree is ugly genius. Those words are very, very carefully chosen. They reduce her desire to marry her lover to an opinion. Chew on that for a second. Too: words like respectfully disagree notify the listener to observe the manners of the other person, who has just been told how to behave.

    She handled herself beautifully. All credit to her.

  25. She is truly amazing in that she can sit right next to a person who considers her a second class citizen and maintain both a serious argument and her humor. How eloquent.

  26. Pingback: Ways to End the World › Ellen vs. John McCain

  27. Personally, I thought he looked like he was crapping his pants the entire time she was talking. Or that’s what was happening in my head. “Oh god! The angry lesbian is going to eat more babies now!!”

    Anyway, I thought Ellen was genius and wonderful and I was cheering for her. And I thought her frankness on what he was saying was perfect. His ability to say, to her face, he disagrees with HER right to marry someone she LOVES makes me sick.

    Due to my complete lack of Faith in the Democrats, I have been preparing myself for the What If We Lose possibility in Nov. And let me tell you, things like this make me chilled to the bone.

  28. I love that it’s comedians like Ellen and Jon Stewart who are willing to ask the tough questions of McCain and the “real” journalists keep throwing softballs.

  29. I don’t know why McCain is being singled out here. The clips I provided above (comment #5) of Hillary Clinton on Ellen and Obama speaking on the topic show that their positions are indistinguishable from McCain’s.

  30. I’m guessing by all of the above statements of McCain’s supposed discomfort were posted by people who’ve never seen him before? He showed absolutely NO more discomfort than he does when he’s anywhere else… wishful thinking on behalf of the above posters, I fear. He wasn’t ‘crapping his pants’ on the Ellen’s show, he was putting up with being interviewed yet again.
    Sadly, John McCain is the lesser of all evils in this election. He’s the most moderate of the current contenders, and the last thing this country needs is more elected officials to the right OR left of center.
    I agree he’s centrist enough not to care one way or the other about gay marriage — so I have to judge him on his record. Clinton’s record kills any chance of her being a decent Prez; Obama’s record likely will show great things in the future but for now he’s a freshman.
    I’m absolutely thrilled that he appeared on Ellen’s show. After watching this set of Presidential hopefuls, he’s the only one showing a glimmer of good for the US.

  31. It’s funny how much John McCain charms people, because despite his ‘straight talk,’ he tows the Republican line to a degree that should frighten the so-called ‘independents’ who might ‘swing’ to him.

  33. I don’t know why McCain is being singled out here. The clips I provided above (comment #5) of Hillary Clinton on Ellen and Obama speaking on the topic show that their positions are indistinguishable from McCain’s.

    I think it is great that Ellen put McCain on the spot and spoke up for the dignity and validity of her marriage. But Raving Atheist makes a good point: both Obama and Clinton deserve the same treatment. Their positions are half-assed compromises of queer rights in the face of homophobic bigotry. It may be politically convenient, for fear of rousing the Fundie Gay-Bashing Beast conventional wisdom credits for John Kerry’s defeat in 2004; but it is no less worthy of being challenged.

    I think Ellen didn’t challenge Obama and Clinton when they appeared on her show is because of simple timing. Had they appeared after the California supreme court’s ruling, she may have had it more in the forefront of her mind and thus more ready to question them more aggressively. By the same token, had McCain appeared much earlier in the primary season, he could have avoided this embarrassment. But I’m glad his sense of timing is so off.

  34. Sadly, John McCain is the lesser of all evils in this election. He’s the most moderate of the current contenders, and the last thing this country needs is more elected officials to the right OR left of center.

    Will you still think that when President McCain starts bombing Iran? Or when his health care privatization scheme puts more people into the desperate straits of the uninsured?

    Neither Obama nor Clinton is a raving lefty – I should know, being one myself – and they are nearly stepping on each other to occupy the absolute Center of American politics (wherever that is) without alienating workers, people of color, women, and queers (and please note, it is quite possible to belong to all four so-called “special interest” groups.) Sadly, they’ve both done a poor job, as it seems racist and sexist coding by both campaigns have created sharp divisions among voters who should be happily embracing either candidate.

  35. # The Raving Atheist says:
    May 23rd, 2008 at 5:39 pm – Edit

    I don’t know why McCain is being singled out here. The clips I provided above (comment #5) of Hillary Clinton on Ellen and Obama speaking on the topic show that their positions are indistinguishable from McCain’s.

    Actually, from watching those clips, it sounded to me that both Clinton and Obama were saying it’s not their job, it’s the state’s job. I think Obama did a better job of articulating that sentiment and came off as less evasive. Yes, they both were tip-toeing. They’re politicians, it’s what they do, but from watching the three clips back to back, I definitely get the feeling that although John McCain might say, “Sure, let’s do civil unions,” he does not care for the rights of the GLBT community. Clinton and Obama seem to understand and care about the issue, though they are trying to cover their own behinds in the process.

  36. Pingback: Noble Savage » Blog Archive » The elephant in the room: McCain and gay marriage

  37. he did NOT punk out. he did not lie and say one thing, then vote against it in 2 years, when he is the new president.
    word.

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