Craziest Sex Scandal Yet

40 thoughts on Craziest Sex Scandal Yet

1. My favourite part is the cup of tea afterwards; it don’t get any more British than that, does it?

2. God, and I felt guilty about thinking Ralph Fiennes was kinda hot in Schindler’s List.

3. I get all tripped up in trying to balance my gut-level disgust at the clearly problematic use of the Holocaust as an event to sexually fetishize, and my political belief that consensual private sexual activity should be, as a general rule, private. I really try not to judge other peoples’ sexual choices (and usually I don’t care enough to judge, unless they involve me), and obviously I still think that this guy should (legally) be able to do whatever the heck he wants in his bedroom, but this just throws me.

   I don’t think these two things are in conflict. I agree that consensual private sexual activity is private and none of my business. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t or shouldn’t have private opinions about using genocide as sexual aid. It just means that I don’t think that my opinions justify making something illegal.

4. if only he were a right-wing politician playing Nazi dress-up with dudes in diapers it would seal the deal.

   “Fixed,” says David Vitter.

5. Where the fuck does one find an “expert” on kink who declares that Nazi roleplay is “not unusual” but SWITCHING is all freaky?

6. 1) Nazi roleplay is highly controversial within the BDSM community. Some folks will do it in public, others of us think it is triggering and should not be done in public. This was not public, obviously, but it was …

   2) professional. Pro doms and subs are sex workers. People get annoyed with me, but my position is my position. I am okay with sex workers doing what they need to do; I am not okay with men that will pay for sex. BDSM is maybe a closer case, but I’m still not cool with men paying for BDSM.

   3) He’s a Mosely. You would think, because his dad was the #1 British Fascist, that he’d stay as far away from Naziism as possible. It’s as bad as George Wallace’s son playing “plantation.”

   4) Fuck FIA. They’ve got more sexism than NASCAR and Indy put together, and more resistance to women. See any women on the track? Me neither.
   Yes, he should resign.

7. It’s so strange that just earlier today I was thinking about how it’s not rare to find Nazi Germany type uniforms in anime/manga and fanart. But, um, even my kinky yaoi doesn’t go that far.

   I’m difficult to squick, too, but this seems to cross a line. I can understand calling for his resignation since he’s in a position of authority.

8. I can see asking him to resign possibly from an anti-Semitism standpoint. To me it just seems that someone who gets off on playing Holocaust is probably anti-Semitic. But, I could be wrong, see as how this is the first instance of this type of role playing I’ve heard of.

9. Oh man- Cleese,Idle and Palin could have made BILLIONS with this skit…

10. It is definitely one hell of a scandal.

    Full disclosure: I am a feminist anti-racist who is in full support of the rights of sex workers. And I also have a similar kink. No Meri, I’m not at all pro-Nazi, or an anti-Semite. Fetishes are funny things sometimes.

    It is definitely a touchy kind of kink, and truth be told, I agree with the BDSM groups that don’t allow that kind of play in public play space. It is triggering to a lot of people, and to most people with a conscience, a tricky thing to navigate even among people involved. So I’d definitely classify it as definitely something that shouldn’t leave the privacy of the home.

    But damn, the fact that it’s a descendant of Oswald Mosely sure makes me think there’s some definite real anti-Semitism at work in this case.

    Though I agree with ellefromtheeast that the “*gasp* Switching!?” addition is kind of ridiculous. From my very limited anecdata: every other person I knew with the kink (okay, like three people) was also a switch.

    Just my two cents.

11. Where the fuck does one find an “expert” on kink who declares that Nazi roleplay is “not unusual” but SWITCHING is all freaky?

    You just made my night, elle.

    I would analyze my reaction a little more closely, but I’m laughing way too hard.

12. To echo what Thomas, TSID said above, Mosely and the entire F1 organization is so out of touch with today’s racing. They don’t care about the racing, the drivers, the fans, the sponsors; it’s all about them and those Euros.

    Bernie Eccelstone, Mosely’s co-hort in crime (he even said to the press he didn’t see why the whole mess was such a big deal and should be ignored anyway because it was a ‘personal’ issue), was the one who snubbed Danica Patrick a few years back, insinuating she should be getting him coffee instead of trying to race. That’s why you don’t see any women in F-1 and why Katherne Legge was over here in the states racing, rather than staying on the continent.

    Fuck Mosely. I hope FIA kicks him out and he takes Bernie with him.

13. P.J. O’Rourke once remarked that he didn’t mind being called a Nazi, because no one ever fantasizes about being tied up and ravished by a liberal. Stuff like this Mosley scandal makes me think that such fantasies aren’t exactly the badge of honor O’Rourke seems to believe.

14. I can see the organization calling for his resignation on the basis that he’s now made himself an object of ridicule.

    Sort of undercuts his authority. Whoever he deals with from here on out is going to have this in the back of their minds. He’s lost his credibility, and that isnt good for the organization

15. So I will agree that, on a fundamental level, this is just downright stomach turning…to me. But I also don’t feel comfortable judging someone else’s sexual activities based on what makes me feel icky. I hear that exact same argument from homophobes who find two men kissing icky.

    I assume the people participating were all consenting adults. A lot of people have fantasies that involve things that they wouldn’t dream of doing in real life. As long as they are in private and no one is being forced to participate, well then I don’t see the problem here. This is different to me than, say Spitzer, who spent time punishing people for the exact same thing he was himself doing.

16. fascinating to see this in video. nazi themes are quite popular in bdsm fiction but I never thought I’d see something like this other than ilsa she wolf of the ss or something.

17. God, and I felt guilty about thinking Ralph Fiennes was kinda hot in Schindler’s List.

    Ralph Fiennes is simply hot. Period.

    It’s so strange that just earlier today I was thinking about how it’s not rare to find Nazi Germany type uniforms in anime/manga and fanart.

    I’m unfortunately of the opinion that the black Gestapo uniforms* are rather good-looking, which mildly sickens me, but . . . *shrugs helplessly* If there weren’t bigotry and millions of murders involved, it’d be prime fantasy material, but really, there’s no bigger turnoff.

    The concentration camp part of the fetish, though? Don’t get it and it sickens me. Just . . . my brain won’t go there. And I think I’m glad it won’t.

    *from Hogan’s Heroes, at least. No idea how historically accurate they are.

18. Gestapo uniforms were designed to be stylish on purpose. Don’t feel too bad.

19. But… isn’t the Holocaust kind of off-limits, even in private? Or am I just being a judgmental prig here?

    Yes, I would say it is off-limits on the grounds that it trivializes the sufferings millions of people went through in the Holocaust and Concentration camps for sexual enjoyment…even among consenting adults. Though I won’t call for him to be arrested for his tastes….I certainly will think twice before associating with him or recommending him for any position requiring good judgment and responsibility.

    By the same token, I cannot blame the Chinese people for the anger they felt against a group of Japanese tourists who hired prostitutes for a three day orgy in China during a time when Chinese anger was running high over the Japan’s colonial legacy and war crimes in China. Personally, I think those tourists should have been more sensitive to how their actions would look to the local populace considering Japan’s colonial legacy and the high tensions of that time arising from insufficient acknowledgment/denials of war crimes such as Japan’s military’s use of sex slaves during the war by the Japanese government.

20. Max has less to be embarrassed about than Oswald did.

    Food for thought.

21. Gestapo uniforms were designed to be stylish on purpose. Don’t feel too bad.

    The SS uniforms, which are what most people think of when they think of stylish black Nazi uniforms, were designed by Hugo Boss himself, so it should be no surprise that most everyone thinks they look good.

    I just saw a stub of this article on the front of the London Times yesterday, which consisted only of the claim, by Mosley, that he had spoken German not because he had Nazi fetishes but because the sex workers were German speakers.

    “Name three things wrong with that article,” my friend demanded. I contended that there was one thing wrong with the article, which was that a journalist handed it to an editor and waited expectantly, and the editor, upon reading it, did not quietly put it down and stare at the journalist over half-moon spectacles until the journalist got embarassed and left.

    Man who drank in my local was a former bodyguard for Mosley Senior; true story. The BUF really did cause a lot of trouble here. They had mainstream media support, for one thing. Given the context, a certain level of opprobrium directed at Mosley Junior is definitely appropriate, even given a general principle of bedroom privacy.

22. and he takes Bernie with him.

    Amen

23. Well, it’s the million dollar question – if someone has an offensive kink, like nazis or rape fantasies or what-have-you, is it merely a harmless kink, or something that should raise flags?

    I mean, that’s what I say to myself, but the fact that his father was a fascist takes this further into ‘whuh oh’ territory.

    Totally agree on him stepping down, though. No one should have to step down because of their private sex lives, but he represents the organization, and I’m pretty sure they don’t want him to be their public face.

24. Kyra, I have a bit of a costume fetish myself, and I find uniforms on pretty anime men very hot. So, yeah, I have a fanart drawing of Seifer from Final Fantasy VIII in a nazi-ish uniform and I hate hate hate the source, but it looks so good.
    But that’s completely divorced from the original context. It’s still troubling and I don’t think it’s off limits for criticism or analysis.

    I think I’m with exholt and Blunderbuss. I don’t want anyone arrested for their sexual kinks, but the father raises red flags and in his position he represents the organization and has a lot of authority.

25. One thing I remember my dad saying (he was a WWII vet) was that “Goddamn Nazi’s had the best uniforms” – so superior tailoring + the transgressive sense of evil is probably a big draw to your average yaoi mangaka. >.>

    and wierdly, this comes on the heels of me telling The Spouse the other night how I greatly prefer F1 racing to NASCAR. (of course, I would probably prefer being bitten all over by fire ants to NASCAR, but YMMV)

26. The first thing this made me think of was Rob Zombie’s fake trailer for Werewolf Women of the SS, I have to say. Which of course was based on the infamous:

    

    This kind of fetish is not that unusual, but most people have the good sense not to cross the line into depicting actual Nazi scenarios, for all the reasons people have mentioned. I mean, if you want to play prisons & guards, that’s pretty heavy territory already — or it should be if you have any idea of the kinds of things prisoners of all kinds have suffered through in the 20th century. I don’t think this stuff is absolutely necessarily trivializing. But there’s a clear line of crossing into “Nazi territory” that seems to me like it would be idiotic for a guy like Mosely to cross over, especially if you’re also committing a crime by paying for sex. I can only speculate that he must be REALLY into this stuff in particular? And that may be pretty sketchy

    That said — I watched the video and it’s pretty tame other than Mosely’s naked ass getting whacked a bit. The main “Nazi” connection seems to be that they spoke German during one part of the scene, and that one woman who plays a “guard” is wearing a black military uniform that doesn’t look as elaborate or “authentic” from the video as some of the high-end, obviously SS-inspired fetish wear you see out there. And the concentration camp angle might be that they refer to him as a war criminal at one point?

    I guess it’s hard to say what the intent was here — it’s quite possible he asked specifically for a “Nazi” scene, but it also might be blown out of proportion. Of course, what’s undeniable is that like Spitzer, he paid a huge amount of cash for sex and literally got caught with his pants down, and that any of this german-military-prison themed stuff is obviously a massive grey area that can cross over into Very Poor Taste quite quickly. Actual white supremacists have been known to use this kind of thing to try and recruit people or sneak their own imagery and dogwhistles in — on a message board I used to frequent, one girl who worked as a fetish model posing for photo shoots had to object at one point to a symbol that was plastered on her image of two parallel lightning bolts — which it seems the photographer didn’t realize or didn’t think she would realize was basically the SS logo.

27. Exholt, I was absolutely fucking horrified by those events. Nations should have a sense of solemn shame about their atrocities, not flippancy or pride. It was as disgusting as if a group of white Americans had organized a desert festival to celebrate the internment of Japanese-Americans, or a group of Germans had organized to celebrate Kristallnacht.

28. because no one ever fantasizes about being tied up and ravished by a liberal.

    Speak for yourself, Mr. O’Rourke.

29. because no one ever fantasizes about being tied up and ravished by a liberal.

    Speak for yourself, Mr. O’Rourke.

    LOL

30. because no one ever fantasizes about being tied up and ravished by a liberal.

    Mr. O’Rourke meet Mr. Califa. I’m sure you will find his published work quite interesting.

31. “God, and I felt guilty about thinking Ralph Fiennes was kinda hot in Schindler’s List.”

    Yeah, I felt the same way watching Paul Bettany in Bent.

32. Mosley, whose father, Sir Oswald Mosley, was the founder of the British Union of Fascists and a friend of Adolf Hitler,

    Calling Mr. Oswald with the swastika tattoo
    There is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo
    Carving “V” for “vandal” on the guilty boy’s head
    When he’s had enough of that, maybe you’ll take him to bed
    To teach him he’s alive before he wishes he was dead

    Turn up the TV, no one listening will suspect
    Even your mother won’t detect it, so your father won’t know
    They think that I’ve got no respect but
    Everything is less than zero
    

    Okay, I couldn’t resist that, it just POPPED into my head! 😀

33. One thing I remember my dad saying (he was a WWII vet) was that “Goddamn Nazi’s had the best uniforms”

    Did he mean the uniforms of Nazi paramilitary units and intelligence services such as the SA, SS, Gestapo, etc….or does he also include those of the German military forces as well?

    I ask not only because the German military uniforms were, with some exceptions, predated the coming of Nazi rule, but also because most American and Asian-American friends are often taken aback when they see Chinese Nationalist soldiers wearing German army gear, including the stalhelm in old photographs of Chinese soldiers fighting the Second Sino-Japanese war.

    During the 1930’s, the Chinese Nationalist government wanted to modernize its military forces to prepare for impending foreign threats, especially considering the Western Imperial powers and Japan still had their spheres of influences and Japan’s increasing aggression as shown by events such as the 1931 invasion of Manchuria. Not surprisingly, none of the Western powers were interested in doing so as it would threaten the extraterritoriality perks they held*. Only the Germans who had lost their sphere of influence of Qingdao to Japan at the end of WWI and desired a way to maintain the skills and employment of some of their best officers while gaining valuable natural resources such as tungsten were interested. This continued until Japan joined the axis pact and strongly protested German military aid to the Chinese troops fighting their invasion in 1937.

    *Those colonialist spheres of influence with extraterritoriality privileges were not completely abolished until the mid-1940s.

34. Omnibus random-thought comment…

    Astraea: It’s still troubling and I don’t think it’s off limits for criticism or analysis.

    EG: But that doesn’t mean that I can’t or shouldn’t have private opinions about using genocide as sexual aid.

    If you were speaking about me, my reaction would be that of course you are free to criticize and analyze on grounds of freedom of speech and thought. I would follow up by pointing out that your criticism creates no obligation on my part to change my sexual behaviour. I don’t think I’d hold Max Mosley to a different sexual standard than I’d hold myself in that regard. I also don’t think I want to draw a line between where criticism creates an obligation and where it doesn’t, and whose criticism besides.

    Broce: Sort of undercuts his authority. Whoever he deals with from here on out is going to have this in the back of their minds.

    Why does somebody’s sexual activity undercut their authority? Is this like your boss’ authority being undercut because you’ve found out she’s a lesbian?

    Blunderbuss: No one should have to step down because of their private sex lives, but he represents the organization, and I’m pretty sure they don’t want him to be their public face.

    Nobody should have to step down because of their private sex lives, but this person is different?

    Is there a list of sex acts that will never embarrass my employer somewhere, so that I can see the light and only pick from the list?

    I’m having trouble thinking through the messages in this thread. Pointers to background reading are always welcome.

    (Interesting trivia: He’s the son of Oswald Mosley, and the nephew of Unity Mitford besides.)

35. Yyzian, I was talking about myself in that particular sentence.

    Unless someone’s sexual interests indicate a warped view of other people and that person has authority and power, I generally try not to judge a person for their sexual interests. But Mosely does have power and authority.

    I do share your concern that private sex acts shouldn’t be held against people, because the history of doing so is so very full of abuse and discrimination. I guess I’m still wrestling with this, myself.

    He did engage in illegal behavior, though, and I imagine that’s more legal leverage for his removal than anything else.

36. Mosley appears to be a public figure and a public representative of F1 Racing, and was also caught committing a crime in what basically amounts to a sting operation. Those two things shift the discussion of private sex acts a little bit, to the extent where I could see Formula One having justification for removing him from his position, just like they might if he was caught on tape making an anti-Semitic joke. Just because someone makes a joke to a friend in poor taste or has sex practices that cross the line into poor taste doesn’t mean they actually BELIEVE those things, but if they’re recorded doing it, they’ve basically ended up on public record as espousing and supporting that particular kind of poor taste. And that’s enough to can a public official over.

    And honestly, when it comes to this particular kind of poor taste, I could see there being some potential arguments for piercing the veil of privacy as well — at least if it’s clear there was anti-Semitic intent or interest, which isn’t clear in this case since it sounds sort of like “kinky sex scene with some German thrown in.”

37. Mosley appears to be a public figure and a public representative of F1 Racing, and was also caught committing a crime in what basically amounts to a sting operation. Those two things shift the discussion of private sex acts a little bit, to the extent where I could see Formula One having justification for removing him from his position, just like they might if he was caught on tape making an anti-Semitic joke

    Making an anti-Semitic joke, depending on the circumstances, might also be illegal in this country. Incitement to racial hatred is against the law. I don’t think anyone’s talking about applying it here, but it’s a possibility.

38. in real life genicide is sexualized and rape is used as a tool of war and ethnic cleansing. so, Mosley’s fanitsay just seems too close to real life to be just a fantisay to me.

    should he resign? no.
    should he learn about genicide/rape/rape culture/rascism and how racial fetishes hurt people? yes.

39. yyzian: Okay, I have to admit you’ve got me there. Because it’s another million-dollar question – your private life is private, but does that change when you’re the public face of an organization? Are people allowed to criticise your private life when you represent something? I have no honest idea.

    (Sorry if this double-posts.)

40. Formula One Racing Head with a Nazi Fetish: the Craziest Sex Scandal Yet

    And here I thought we couldn’t do any better than “Evangelical mega-church preacher does crystal meth with male prostitutes.”

    I have to ask how is it that the private fetish play of the head of Formula One Racing tops Ted Haggard’s hypocrisy?

    This guy is not claiming to be a moral and pure religious leader, preaching to his flock about the “sins” of gay sex while partaking of it himself.

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