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What Hillary Can Teach Lady-Lawyers

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This article makes me want to stab something. Registration is required, so I’ll excerpt most of it here. It’s one attorney’s take on what “woman lawyers” (am I the only one that hates when the word “woman” is used instead of “female” in these situations?) can learn from Hillary, and the moral of the story seems to be that Clinton should teach us to take our sexist knocks. The “lessons” Clinton has taught us:

Stereotypes are tough to shake, and they can help and hurt women lawyers. The rap on Clinton, almost from the beginning, was that she was too tough and played hardball — a not altogether undesirable attribute in a president. But then she had her misty moment in New Hampshire, and all of a sudden she’s back in the hunt.

In that case, being warm helped Clinton, but had warmth and likeability been the gist of her campaign, she would have been sunk. Obama has been able to be likeable from the get-go because, as a man, he doesn’t have to prove his toughness.

Women lawyers should follow suit. They don’t have to be likeable or warm or nurturing to get the job done. In fact, for most of them, that would work against them — and their clients’ — interests. But, when the timing’s right, a bit of femininity doesn’t hurt. In fact, it can work greatly to women lawyers’ advantage.


I don’t begrudge women who use sexist stereotypes to get what they need — I personally laugh when I’m nervous, so I was never able to get our of any traffic tickets by shedding a few tears (in fact, I suspect my lack of feminine propriety — exhibited by laughing in the officer’s face — got me extra-screwed), but I can’t blame the ladies who get out of speeding fines by crying a little bit. I can’t blame female lawyers for working with what they have when they’re at a disadvantage to begin with, and when sexism usually works against them.

I can, however, suggest that it’s not a great solution to sexism. Individuals have to do what they have to do, but it’s not great as a collective feminist strategy. And branding “having feelings” as “femininity” doesn’t sit quite right with me.

Being thick-skinned is invaluable.If women lawyers think they have it bad putting up with sexism and, sometimes, outright discrimination, they don’t know the half of it. Clinton has been called every foul, vile and profane name ever invented. Thousands of hours of hate-filled talk radio have been dedicated to ruminating on every aspect of her character, marriage and physical appearance. The amount of criticism heaped upon her over the past 16 years would leave even the toughest women lawyers curled up in the fetal position.

Now, whether lawyers think the criticism leveled against her is founded or not, they have to admire her perseverance in the face of it. In the midst of all that, to be able to get up every morning and convince herself that not only does she deserve to be a U.S. senator but that she also has every right to be president is, frankly, awe-inspiring.

That’s something women attorneys should remember the next time they feel shortchanged by a colleague or don’t get deserved appreciation. At least Rush Limbaugh has no idea who most women lawyers are and saves his attacks for the high-profile targets.

You ladies think you have it tough? Ha! You could be Hillary Clinton — so shut it.

I agree with the author that perseverance is important. She’s right that thick skin is certainly helpful for women in the public sphere and in any profession. But again, this is not a good collective strategy. This is not something that female lawyers, as a group, should be embracing as a solution. When female lawyers feel shortchanged, the solution is not to think to yourself, “Well, at least Rush Limbaugh isn’t talking about me!” And I can guarantee that Hillary Clinton didn’t get ahead by brushing off nasty, sexist attacks and concluding that because someone somewhere is worse off, she has no justification for being angry or responding accordingly.

Appearance matters. I hate this one, but it’s true. By most accounts, Clinton excels in this area. She’s always pulled together. She’s attractive but not so much so that she risks being objectified. Clearly, a lot of thought goes into everything she wears. The good news for women is that although being attractive helps, it’s not really about having a pretty face. It’s about looking polished and professional: nice clothes, good hair and all those other things that go into looking well-groomed.

But remember when she showed just a teensy bit of cleavage? It nearly shook the earth off its axis. These are the risks of trying to pull off a look that is attractive but not sexy.

Back here in the real world, take heed: well-made, flattering suits = good; figure-hugging, cleavage-showing suits = not so good. Always be pulled together and look polished and be grateful for the lack of television cameras.

Yes, she did use the term “good hair.”

I’m a white girl with relatively manageable hair, but even I understand what that’s code for. “Good hair” means straightened, soft hair. It means no braids, no Afros, none of that “unprofessional” hair that grows naturally on some women. It means hair that conveys “whiteness.”

And “not looking sexy” means no tits and no ass — which is easy when you don’t have big boobs or a fat ass, but not so much when you have one of those bodies that, by its very existence, screams “sex” to some people. If I go into work wearing a fitted turtleneck, no one will care. If a woman who’s a D-cup does it, though, she’s showing off her body. “Dressing sexy” is also very much in the eye of the beholder, and for a lot of women, a suit that fits also means a suit that reveals the fact that they have breasts and hips — a no-no for people who cannot take the physical presence of women in the workplace. For women who are considered conventionally attractive — or in many cases, women who are simply young — it’s not the clothes that inspire accusations of being too sexy, it’s the woman’s simple existence.

All of these suggestions are, on their face, reasonable band-aid solutions that many individual women already use just to get through their days. And that’s good and fine — we’ve gotta do what we’ve gotta do, and I don’t fault individual women for taking the necessary steps to succeed.

But when stuff like this is published as a guide for female lawyers as a class, it does a real disservice to all of us. It completely ignores the broader context of sexism as an institutional and social norm, and instead turns it into an individual problem necessitating individual solutions. Women can react, one by one, to sexism until the cows come home, but it’s not going to make one lick of difference until we work on repairing the bigger picture and the broader issues. Articles like this suggest otherwise — that the negative effects of sexism in your life aren’t systematic, but rather reflective of some failure on your part to adequately follow the rules of response.

Even more disturbing: This piece was passed onto me by a young associate who tells me it’s being passed around in various firms as being “right on.”


37 thoughts on What Hillary Can Teach Lady-Lawyers

  1. You know, thanks for this post. As an extremely top heavy woman (DD and 5’2”, woo!) I find that every single cute top, suit, or dress varies between nun-ish or pole dancer, with nothing in between. I’ve been chastised at every job I’ve ever had for showing a little bit of cleavage now and then. Well, sorry… it’s kind of hard not to show cleavage when I basically have it up to my neck if I’m wearing a well-fitted bra and top. It’s either that or I cover up. Because I’m small but breasty, I can choose between fitted on top and pregnant on bottom, or fitted all over and tight over my breasts. In short, the only way for me to find clothes that fit is to (gaspshockhorror) wear clothes that allude to the fact that I have very large breasts.

    You know, for every time someone complains about me wearing “inappropriate clothing” I’d like to complain about them being piggish assholes. Just because I have large breasts doesn’t mean you get to look at them all day, or act like they’re a huge obscene distraction. I happen to like my body and my breasts, and if you don’t, that’s your problem. My job has nothing to do with my breasts, and I wear the same clothing as everyone else in the office. The difference is that I’m extremely curvy and young.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought there was nothing wrong with being top heavy and young. I don’t think it affects my job. I do however think that requiring me to wear a paper sack or chop off my breasts so as to conceal the fact that I have a figure at work implies something foul. If you have a problem with my femininity and my breasts, you can leave. Sadly, I can’t do anything about them. They’re kind of attached to me.

  2. You are not the only one who has a problem with the word “woman” being used as an adjective when “female” would actually be grammatically correct. Ugh. It sounds so awful and derogatory. Like, “One o’ them woman law-yers.” Blech.

  3. Yes, I too hate the use of “woman” when “female” should be used. I also have a massive pet peeve for the reverse, which I see much more often, when people refer to “those females” instead of “those women” — THAT I find tremendously demeaning. and uhm, wrong.

  4. (am I the only one that hates when the word “woman” is used instead of “female” in these situations?)

    I’m always confused as to when one would be more appropriate than the other. I really don’t like it when “females” is used (which seems more often than not these days) as a collective noun for women or “a female” as a substitute for “woman.” “First female president” and “first woman president,” on the other hand, both seem accurate and fairly innocuous to me–although I dislike the use of gendered descriptors when they aren’t really needed (like as a prefix to any professional job title). Grammarians out there: why is “woman lawyer” less correct than “female lawyer”?

  5. I agree about woman lawyers, but it’s definitely not universal. At my last job, we ran a bunch of programs trying to help level the playing field for female attorneys, and the organizers – whose calling was to promote women in legal professions, from law school to judges – insistented on “woman attorney” over and over. Huh.

  6. I agree about the “woman lawyers” thing. Not only does is sound condescending and derogatory, but it just further blurs the line between sex and gender. (Although, I guess the people who say things like “woman lawyers” usually don’t think there IS any line between sex and gender…)

    Thanks for the post!

  7. Ick, it as someone entering law school next year, this just seems like another damned if you do, damned if you don’t moment. I’m big, I’m female, and I’ve never seen the point in spending a lot of money for CLOTHES (for chrissake, they’re designed to cover up your body, it’s not like they cure polio) and I’m afraid I’m going to run afoul of both sexism and fatphobia.

  8. Refering to “woman laywers” like that almost always means the so-called advice is going to be presented in terms of gender stereotypes, rather than gender-neutral advice that could apply to anyone. Women who show compassion or any other kind of emotion are always considered to be using their femininity to their advantage. Women who don’t are just playing at acting like men.

    Men, however, are the real human beings who simply use the wider range of normal human experience.

    And not dressing in clothes that are too revealing or too sexy always means clothes that remind people that you are female. Because women’s bodies are coded as sex, anything that reminds people that you have breasts or an ass is interpreted as sexy. The female body is used so much as a metaphor for sex, sexual desire or sexual arousal that it is taken for granted by most people that clothes that don’t hide every bit of eroticized skin are inappropriate.

    Yet, we are put in a no win situation because our clothes cannot just be functional and suitable, they must be attractive. They must flatter our figures. They should be stylish but not flashy or too fashion-forward for where we live. And so, we must spend much more time and money trying to find these perfect clothes than men who can throw on dockers and a polo shirt or a suit.

  9. Grammatically, “woman lawyer” is wrong because “woman” is a noun and “female” is an adjective. It’s also wrong because absolutely fucking nobody would ever say “man lawyer” because that’s a given.

  10. Heh. When I was in law school in Virginia, we womenfolk were told to wear skirts to interviews. Because pantsuits weren’t, I don’t know, dressy enough or something. I happened to be interviewing with firms not based in the South, so I discounted the advice and somehow managed to eke out a position. We were also advised to, if engaged, not wear our engagement rings, because an upcoming wedding screams “I’m going to work for a couple years and then quit on you to raise babies.” Wedding rings were okay because, hey, what are you going to do. But you were not, under any circumstance, to discuss your children.

    I have no idea the extent to which my classmates took that advice – the only piece of advice that was relevant to me at the time was the pants versus skirt issue – but I have no doubt it was useful advice when interviewing with the more traditional southern (and perhaps other) firms.

    This was in the early 2000s, too. Not the dark ages.

  11. Off topic response:
    I can see that not discussing children can be sexist advice, but it is also good advice for everyone. I’ve been told by HR professionals I’ve worked with that while they aren’t allowed to ask about your family, it’s somewhat fair game if you open the door and mention them yourself.

    The skirt thing is so annoying to me. I like wearing skirts sometimes, but I hate it as a requirement for women to look more dressed up or professional, when men obviously are perfectly suitable in a pair of pants. It seems more an indicator that you don’t buck the system and are properly feminine than an indication of professionalism.

  12. Hm. I get away with wearing flat, comfy loafers, pantsuits, and no makeup to my job at a smaller law firm (paralegal, in law school) but I am worried about what people are going to expect in terms of compulsory femininity when I graduate. That this piece is being passed around doesn’t sound like a good sign.

  13. It’s one attorney’s take on what “woman lawyers” (am I the only one that hates when the word “woman” is used instead of “female” in these situations?)

    I actually kind of don’t mind the “woman”-(traditionally male) professional thing, if a gender differentiation absolutely has to be used for some reason. Among black folks in the U.S., the term “female” can be used in a very derogatory fashion (as a noun, not an adjective) so I sometimes cringe when I hear the term in other contexts. But I do get what you are saying and appreciate you raising the issue. At the proverbial office watercooler about an hour ago, I heard a woman who used to practice law use the term “woman writer”.

  14. Astraea-

    The sexism inherent in the “do not discuss children or marriage” advice is that if you’re a woman discussing your family, that is a red flag to an employer that you’re going to leave early for doctor’s appointments, soccer games, and, I don’t know, cookie-baking. And that’s just before you ask for flex time or to work part-time. If you’re a man and are married and have kids, that’s great because it means you’re stable and really need a paycheck. So you’re a good investment.

    Or so I’ve been told.

  15. But, when the timing’s right, a bit of femininity doesn’t hurt.

    Um. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to say “a bit of humanity doesn’t hurt.” I was one of the people who assumed that the tears were a little forced, but I never thought of it as a ploy to make her seem feminine, but a ploy to counteract her hardline positions on the war, national security, etc. by reminding people that she has emotions. Obama’s been known to use tears to his advantage as well.

    Also, in context it seems like “femininity” is code for “weakness.” Do you really think that it’s helpful to act weak? Maybe if you’re trying to get your sexist boss to give you a raise, but I sure as hell don’t want my attorney pretending to be weak. I’ve done enough competitive speaking and mock trials to know that good lawyers are like sharks and get more aggressive, not less, when they think their opponents are weak.

  16. Pansy P – yeah, I completely agree that it’s sexist BS that makes it a disadvantage for women to mention kids in an interview. I didn’t mean to be dismissive of that in my admittedly off topic response. The perceived sexism of the interviewer, though, is often justified and the advice-giver isn’t necessarily being sexist.

  17. (am I the only one that hates when the word “woman” is used instead of “female” in these situations?)

    I’m now working for the Army, and they are *obsessed* with using female instead of woman in all circumstances. My inner grammarian’s ongoing existential angst is a sight to behold.

  18. Astraea-

    I agree. I used to get very annoyed at the advice, but career services was just trying to help. I also admit that I bent to the advice when I was just a newbie and didn’t know any better. Fast forward 5 years or so, when I was interviewing for a new job and announced during the interview process that I planned to have children and that I needed them to be aware of and okay with that. They were, and I have since had children and continue to be happy at my job.

    I guess that demonstrates part of the problem – the bullshit sexism in a career like law really disparately affects the young lawyers (male and female) who don’t have the power or confidence to demand what they need. So by the time you’re a midlevel, you’ve already conformed to whatever norms the powers that be established as early as the interview process. I am lucky that I am confident enough, and have a strong enough background, that I could assert what I needed and still get where I want to go in my career. At least so far. I’m still 30 or so years away from retirement.

  19. This is a bunch of bullshit. The first female federal public defender in the U.S., if I’m remembering correctly, was Cris Arguedas–who although thick-skinned is decidedly not feminine. Her longtime law partner, Penny Cooper, was hardly feminine either, and neither were or are known for their fashion sense. They wore pants, openly defied Judges who tried to make them wear skirts, pissed off prosecutors (one even shoved Arguedas to the ground during a particularly difficult trial), and in the process built one of the best criminal defense practices in the U.S. Arguedas used to say that she didn’t care if the judge or the prosecutors or the jury thought she was mean or a bitch, as long as they all knew the witness was lying.

    Arguedas is consistently ranked among California’s and the country’s best lawyers, and her fashion sense and femininity had nothing to do with it. She was and is tenacious, brilliant, and uncompromising–just like Penny Cooper before her retirement a few years back. Feminists and others should know more about them, especially lawyers.

    Insulting that anyone would even think to write tripe like that…

  20. Jen, I feel your pain! I’m top-heavy, 5’2, and the rest of me is so slim and small that my breasts look even bigger in comparison.

    I’d add a couple of things:

    – Unless I’m wearing a turtleneck, I’m so short and curvy that it’s pretty much always possible to look down my shirt. And turtlenecks just make them look bigger. No win!

    – Because I’m young and so conventionally pretty, I often have men assuming that I’m sexually available, and that it’s ok to make sexist comments – I’ll just giggle submissively and try to laugh it off. When they get shot down horribly because I refuse to submit, and I make a pithy comment that reduces them to the idiots they actually are, I acquire the “bitch” label.

    I think there’s a couple of things that make it easier for me, though. I’m not white, so I don’t have the added stereotype of being blonde and blue-eyed, but I don’t look “ethnic” enough for my race to really seem threatening. I’m really smart, and I’m good at Math and Science as well as being fairly well-spoken, so no one can deny my intelligence without looking stupid.

    It sickens me that the stuff that keeps me from being a constant victim of sexual harassment is itself both sexist and racist. That’s why I’m a feminist – because things shouldn’t be like this.

  21. Pansy P – Seems like a vicious cycle. While on one hand, it seems like safe advice to just not bring up family and it’s really none of an employer’s business, you point out that it can be very important to negotiate with a possible employer to be sure you have your needs met. It’s a sign of just how little power women have as individuals and as employees to negotiate employment terms that meet their needs as well as the company’s. That makes it more clear to me why this is a survival technique that is also harmful when put in practice.

  22. I think it’s really irritating how much women have to fight and struggle and work harder than men just to get some sort of pat on the back for what they’re doing. A female lawyer shouldn’t have to work harder just to be successful. She shouldn’t have to prove that she’s thick-skinned and ruthless and “just like a man” to be considered a good lawyer.

    Of course, I don’t think a man should have to be a stay-at-home-dad to prove he can babysit a child either, but these stereotypes of what men and women are good at just show how ridiculous the whole thing is.

  23. Female lawyer here. This advice sounds like something my mother would have given me twenty five years ago. Might have been helpful then. Not helpful now.

    Thick skin is handy. But that’s mostly because I deal with overinflated egos on a regular basis. That’s not something I learned from my mother, or anyone else. That’s something I developed over many many years. You can’t will yourself to have thick skin, you have to develop it. Painfully.

    I am a tall and large woman. Finding clothes that fit is challenging. A few years ago I decided, “fuck it” and quit wearing skirts (because pantyhose suck and heels hurt my feet) and make up (pain in the ass daily application of unnecessary goo that made my skin pimply and itchy). I’ve yet to hear any comment on my unprofessional attire. I dress in slacks and a jacket, just like most men.

    “Helpful” advice to professional women usually isn’t helpful or professional. It’s sexist and condescending. I am horrified that this crap is making the rounds.

  24. Jeffery –
    I was one of the people who assumed that the tears were a little forced, but I never thought of it as a ploy to make her seem feminine, but a ploy to counteract her hardline positions on the war, national security, etc. by reminding people that she has emotions.

    I assume the generic “her” you are referring to is Clinton. If it is, you should be aware that she absolutely 100% did not cry, no tears. Her voice cracked when she was talking about her love for this country. That was it…her voice cracked. It was the media and sexist asshats that decided a cracked voice was the same as crying. So, no worries, her tears weren’t “forced” because there were no tears. A few of male candidates have cried with actual tears but, of course, there was nary a peep about those incidents.

  25. Jen, Prairielily, snap. I was always consious about my figure growing up, and as a result don’t exactly dress in a manner one would call revealing very often. But more and more, I’m reminded that I can’t excapre objectification because no matter what I wear, the very presence of a female body is what brings it on. This ties into street harassment and rape, because it is all related to the idea that womens’bodies are public property to be judged and used.

    And I can’t even imagine what it must be like to have non-conforming hair, and be judged by that as well. Just the level of expectation these people have that we should bend over backwards to earn respect, the same respect they afford white men without batting an eyelid, because of their hallowed Y chromosome.

    No, I don’t think this is helpful, really. Women don’t just get flack when they’re dressed ‘sexily’, they get flack whatever they are wearing, because they’re a woman. Saying we should address anything else but the root cause is trying to apply a band-aid to a gaping hole in your torso.

    At the same time, I respect the choices women have to make to earn any respect they can, and the pressure all of us feel, because it is not easy. I can’t say that I haven’t tried to avoid attention, because I have and I will continue to do so, when I feel I need to.

  26. I had a recent almost-brush with the legal system that made me appreciate some of this advice, at least on its face.

    I got subpoenaed in a civil suit because of something I wrote in a trade magazine article. (The details are waaaaay too stupid and boring to go into here.) My publishing company hired a lawyer to help me through the deposition process.

    She asked me questions about the article and then went on to explain the deposition process—what to expect, how to respond. She had a very good “bedside manner”—warm, concerned and solicitous. These are traits that are, rightly or wrongly, considered feminine. The point is that they were perfectly appropriate to the situation. They left me feeling reassured and relieved some of my anxiety about being dragged into a lawsuit, which is what she was supposed to do.

    As for her attire, it was completely professional and well-put together, but it did nothing to hide the fact that she was an utterly gorgeous willowy blonde. (I heard later that she supposedly had been a professional figure skater before law school.) That sure helped ease the pain of the experience.

    The point is, yes, the article may have had an objectionable subtext, but don’t be completely dismissive of the usefulness of so-called “feminine” traits in the practice of law. (Of course, that’s all secondary at best—brains and hard work are what really matter in any profession.)

  27. Bitter Scribe: can’t men be comforting too? I mean, it’s not like females emit some bizarre pheromone that makes me trust them more. Nor does it seem that there is any sort of reason that women are naturally more soothing. Gender, in my experiences, matters very little when it comes to down whether or not I trust someone. So does things like hair color and weight. I have no idea why a soft-spoken skinny blonde female is more trustworthy than any other lawyer, really.

    My point being that hiring women because you want to acquire their “womanly” traits for your firm just screams sexism. Especially when that hiring goes awry when the firm figures out that the young woman they hired is just as abrasive and arrogant as one of their male lawyers.

    Basically, all of this talk of what is expected of women lawyers makes me extremely disinclined to continue my plans to go to law school. That promise of a Philosophy PhD sounds better and better when I think of all the crap I’d have to put up with in a firm.

  28. The sexism inherent in the “do not discuss children or marriage” advice is that if you’re a woman discussing your family, that is a red flag to an employer that you’re going to leave early for doctor’s appointments, soccer games, and, I don’t know, cookie-baking. And that’s just before you ask for flex time or to work part-time. If you’re a man and are married and have kids, that’s great because it means you’re stable and really need a paycheck. So you’re a good investment.

    Oh. So. True. And not just in law firms. Try high-tech.

    As for “a little bit of femininity,” I’d like to see that qualified better. Are we talking about flashing the girls here, or are we talking about compassion and a smile?

  29. Jen and prairielilly–I absolutely hear you on the clothes issue. I’m tall and hippy, but I also have ginormous breasts (and they’re relatively new–I was positively flat chested until I had kids). Every top I have either won’t close over them or is ridiculously tight over them, while simultaneously being loose in the waist.

    I’m a substitute teacher and I did a long term assignment at one of the posh public schools in this city a couple of years ago. I had just had my youngest and was still breastfeeding, so at the time my breasts were even bigger than they are now and the clothing issues were magnified. I got reprimanded by the principal for wearing tight sweaters (the only tops I could find that fit without showing inappropriate amounts of cleavage) because it might be distracting for the boys in my class. And then in the next breath she said that she always wished she could fill a sweater as well as I could. I was just about speechless, but when I picked up my jaw, I told her that I didn’t see how my having large breasts was anything I could help and that it would just have to be the boys’ problem instead of mine, because there wasn’t much I could do about it short of dressing like a nun, which I wasn’t willing to do.

  30. I assume the generic “her” you are referring to is Clinton. If it is, you should be aware that she absolutely 100% did not cry, no tears. Her voice cracked when she was talking about her love for this country. That was it…her voice cracked. It was the media and sexist asshats that decided a cracked voice was the same as crying. So, no worries, her tears weren’t “forced” because there were no tears. A few of male candidates have cried with actual tears but, of course, there was nary a peep about those incidents.

    I was referring to the incident in Connecticut, not New Hampshire. And I did mention that Obama has used tears. I’m sceptical of any candidate’s displays of emotion, simply because everything is so scripted.

  31. There are a lot of courses about “women writers” in the colleges in my area…are these courses mistitled?

  32. First, I’m really uncomfortable with designating someone as a “female this-or-that,” I don’t know if it’s a country thing or an Indian thing, but whenever I hear someone designating a person as a “female” they’re speaking in an authoritarian (police, military) way, or they’re ready to say something sexist (present company excluded). I’ve always felt that saying someone is a man or a woman is an identity signifier, as opposed to reference to the person’s genital set-up. So, I prefer 1) Lawyers, 2) Wymym lawyers (ha, ha, older than you guys!) 3) Women lawyers, 4) lady lawyers, and finally 5) female lawyers.

    On a serious note, though – Antigone, Jen, and anyone else who’s thinking about or going to law school: the practice of law includes a lot of options. All the referenced advice is more applicable to someone whose heart is set on being in a medium to big law firm – it’s not so much for those who want to practice law but don’t care about the BIG money. There are excellent oppotunities out there for people who want to take another path. As an American Indian, I never wanted to go into a firm, I always wanted to be a tribal attorney. I have the best job in the world – I’m a “general practitioner” who gets something new thrown at me every couple days (this past week included Indian Child welfare questions, wetlands delineation, electrical service line agreements, Family Medical Leave act, evictions, and prevailing wage questions). I wear suits only when I have court or feel like it (often pants suits, Jones New York has great plus-size professional pants suits), otherwise it’s the same “business casual” as men – khakis, shirt, blazer. By the way, I’m not saying you have to be bitterly poor if you forsake the big firms, you can do just fine, money-wise, while working in opportunities that are closer to your heart, whether as a public defender, a prosecutor, a children’s advocate, a public-interest lawyer, etc. My advice would be knowing – at least having some idea – of what you want to do after law school, picking a school that will support that path (don’t go to a creepy, competitive, conservative school if you want to do “good”…) Find out what schools emphasize your interest – do they have a Public Defense clinic, do they have an Indian law program, what’s their natural resources program like? Anyway, I encourage women to go into law, to be themselves when they do whatever they find compelling, and figure out what works for them theirownselves!

  33. IWL, good points. Anyone thinking of public-interest/nontraditional legal jobs should absolutely do two things the second they hit law school: look into loan forgiveness programs that cover or assist with student loans in return for public service; and get involved with public-interest legal groups, which will point you in the right direction and help you make valuable contacts. Otherwise, you’re running a big risk of ending up as the stereotypical student who starts off wanting to work for the ACLU and graduates being a corporate/defense lawyer because it pays six figures.

  34. I’d say check out the loan forgiveness programs *before* you select your school. They’re not all created equal.

  35. I’m a law student, and truth be told, i wouldn’t like being branded a “woman lawyer.” I mean, this is the 21st century. Shouldn’t women, in any profession, be treated equally as men? The problem with saying “woman lawyer” is, apart from making it sound like it’s some sort of novelty, it does place the kind of harmful, misogynist standards that this blog has detailed in this post and in some of the past ones. It’s like saying “strong woman.” It’s as though being strong isn’t a natural tendency for women to begin with. It sucks.

    Also, sadly, it is true that I might have to use the strageties she mentioned above for individual advancement. The sad truth about lawyering in my third-world country is that even if the women are beginning to outnumber the men, sexism is still pervasive. And it’s not just court officers (judges, clerks, etc.) expecting us to dress and act demurely in a traditional, conservative manner, or the fact that litigation is still a man’s world in many ways. It’s the clients too–they think women lawyers are only good for certain areas of law, like persons and family law, but not for criminal law, etc. It’s very sad, really.

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