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27 thoughts on Say it ain’t so, Spitz!

  1. I listened to his announcement on NPR and there was nothing about his resignation. He said he was going to “take some time” before making any more public pronouncements.

    Jebus.

  4. This will blow over by tomorrow. The real shocker is Newsday’s report today of the governor’s plan to cut state reminbursement to juvenile detention facilities. I can’t see how he’ll survive the media and public uproar over that.

  6. You love him? The guy wanted to give illegals drivers’ licenses…I already ranted here regarding the PITA DMV and my name change after divorce, so that was one assinnine thing ES wanted.
    He also wants to lift the cap on gas taxes….um, we won that in ’06 Eliot, I know YOU take private planes at our expense, but I drive to work every day and have to drive to check on my elderly dad. And that 300 hike in car insurance fees!?
    Not everyone who lives in NY lives in Manhattan. Thousands of us small city folk keep the machine running by working every stinkin’ day for the last 30 years!!!
    Shit, I am lucky I don’t have to melt down my guns yet.
    And while I am at it, why is everything so obscure? What was his “involvement”?
    Was he just a client? WOO, big shock! A rich man paying for pussy!!!
    I am in a bad mood right now.

  7. The guy wanted to give illegals drivers’ licenses…I already ranted here regarding the PITA DMV and my name change after divorce, so that was one assinnine thing ES wanted.

    Sure, let’s make it impossible for a whole bunch of people to get insurance because they don’t have licenses! It’s not like they won’t drive. So when there’s an accident, it goes on your insurance. Happy day!

  8. I bet everyone would be pretty pissed off when suddenly drivers licenses are no longer considered valid ID.

  9. Not me Henry! I now have an FBI file because that’s the new TSA rule for piolts at our airport…damn it!
    We had to be fingerprinted! At least our aviation association got the price down from $100 to $65!
    ZuZu, I’m not sure what you mean. All *I* am saying is that I follow all the damn rules, work, try to live my life and I am sick of politicians who want to make it easier for someone who has not walked in my shoes even half as much.

  10. Henry, do you mean that drivers’ licenses wouldn’t be valid ID when undocumented immigrants carried them? Because drivers’ licenses are already not considered proof of citizenship–when crossing to Canada, for instance, one needs a drivers’ license AND “proof of citizenship”–so I fail to see how it would change anything. And besides, the final plan called for undocumented immigrants’ licenses to be specially marked to make note of their immigration status.

    Of course, the point is moot, since the plan was rejected.

  11. I bet everyone would be pretty pissed off when suddenly drivers licenses are no longer considered valid ID.

    Actually, I’d be happy as a pig in shit. If I’m asked to show an ID for anything other than a traffic stop 99 times out of 100 its because someone feels the need to invade my privacy because theres a presumption I’m a criminal. Buy a bottle of wine to have with dinner? Show some ID. Have a cold and need cold medicine that actually works? Show some ID. Try to go into a bar? ID again. Applying for a job? ID to prove you have the right to work (as if theres ever been a more ridiculous idea). Hell, I’ve been carded for trying to buy condoms on at least one occasion and trying to buy sex toys on at least three.

    Fuck it. If giving undocumented immigrants driver’s licenses so they can get insurance (something which neither picks my pocket nor punches my face) means that some immigration-phobic douche bag decides that state issued photo ID isn’t valid, I say its a great fringe benefit. Not all of us get a huge steaming oppression erection at the prospect of being able to control other’s private behavior and opportunity through social coercion and shame.

  12. Though I know many millions of immigrants to this country are not coming from Mexico, a lot of them are so what I propose to make these immigrants more comfortable in their new full time or part time home is to adopt some of the immigration policies Mexico has. No licenses for “foreners!” and we can treat Mexicans crossing our border the same way Mexico treats people coming through its southern border, fair deal?

    In reality I dont give a shit about licenses or anything else, either change the law or enforce it, look into the “anchor baby” situation as that interpretation of the constitution could be changed but overall make sure they adhere to the laws, as much as the we have to, and let it roll, its not a bad thing and we should welcome them here if they want to contribute. of course i still support us-english.org’s aims. damn shame about Spitzer, it seems this prostitute thing might just be the tip of the iceberg but if it was just that I wouldn’t give a damn, not exactly sure how visiting/having a sex worker coming to see you in any way impedes your ability to govern.

  13. Long of the short, he was busted for using an Escort Service here in lovely DC. What I find about ironic about it is his fairly anti-prostitution stance….

  14. WTF is with the damn trolls, lately? Honestly. Ugh. Is there anything they’re not blaming TEH ILLEGALS for these days? Funny, when there’s so much damn blame to go around, it’s usually their own bootstraps to thank when discussing successes.

  15. The problem with Spitzer is that he made his reputation *busting* prostitution rings in addition to becoming the enemy of Wall Street via his investigations. There have already been a number of scandals associated with his governorship, including the comptroller’s misuse of state vehicles and personnel to drive his wife around, and some hardball with Joe Bruno, the state Senate majority leader, in which he had the state police track Bruno’s travel records, among other things. For which he was, rightly, admonished by the AG.

    All *I* am saying is that I follow all the damn rules, work, try to live my life and I am sick of politicians who want to make it easier for someone who has not walked in my shoes even half as much.

    And you haven’t walked in their shoes, either, or maybe you wouldn’t imagine things were so easy. Driver’s licenses are a public safety issue.

  16. Not me Henry! I now have an FBI file because that’s the new TSA rule for piolts at our airport…damn it!
    We had to be fingerprinted! At least our aviation association got the price down from $100 to $65!
    ZuZu, I’m not sure what you mean. All *I* am saying is that I follow all the damn rules, work, try to live my life and I am sick of politicians who want to make it easier for someone who has not walked in my shoes even half as much.

    Ok, first of all, you seem to be a pilot. I’m gonna go right ahead and say your job probably isn’t as tough as doing ten hours manual labor in the sun followed by another six hours cleaning toilets, all for under minimum wage, and still managing to send fifty cents of every dollar earned home to bring over the wife and kids for a shot at a better life. I’m also going to bet you didn’t have to deal with criminal, flee rednecks, and wonder where you were going to get water on the way to wherever you’ve settled. I don’t bandy the word privilege around much, but perhaps its time to check yours for a second. Just a thought.

    Though I know many millions of immigrants to this country are not coming from Mexico, a lot of them are so what I propose to make these immigrants more comfortable in their new full time or part time home is to adopt some of the immigration policies Mexico has. No licenses for “foreners!” and we can treat Mexicans crossing our border the same way Mexico treats people coming through its southern border, fair deal?

    Just so were clear, your stance is: “Those powerless people are treated like subhumans by the powerful people who run the country that these powerless people are coming from, therefore we should get to treat them just as subhumanly?”

    In reality I dont give a shit about licenses or anything else, either change the law or enforce it, look into the “anchor baby” situation as that interpretation of the constitution could be changed but overall make sure they adhere to the laws, as much as the we have to, and let it roll, its not a bad thing and we should welcome them here if they want to contribute. of course i still support us-english.org’s aims.

    Why adhere to bad laws? Really, I know its kind of a radical question, but if a law is flawed why adhere to it? Being gay was illegal in NY in the 60s, should the Stonewall rioters have just taken their beatings and waited until a law was changed? Should William and Margaret Sanger have obeyed the Comstock laws? Perhaps people in Alabama (and similar states) should simply do without sex toys until such a time as the laws are changed. After all, they should follow the same laws as the rest of us, right? Or does this logic only apply to icky, scary, brown “others” who refuse to speak English?

    Also, “if they want to contribute?” Have you ever actually been closer to a Mexican or Mexican culture than your last trip through th Taco Bell drive thru?

  17. He’s just a schmuck; he f’d up. I feel sorry for him. Screw the wife, she’s a grown up, can take care of herself; think of how his daughters feel. They probably worshiped him. If you don’t believe in God, now is a good time to start believing in her. Pray that he an his family can get through this.

  18. And you haven’t walked in their shoes, either, or maybe you wouldn’t imagine things were so easy. Driver’s licenses are a public safety issue.

    Seconded.

    In my opinion, anyone who thinks life is easier for an illegal immigrant than for someone who “follows the rules” (not the way I would put it…) isn’t familiar with the issues involved. And the last thing I want is people being refused driver’s licenses.

  19. I’ve been reading/hearing rumors that the FBI had no interest in busting the prostitution ring until they found out Spitzer might have been involved. Other, more conspiracy-esque rumors that he was either set-up or tattled on by people connected to the financial world who knew he visited escorts and wanted to take him down before he did any more to go after corruption on wall street.
    I don’t know enough about New York politics or wall street shananigans to to know whether this is totally out there wack-a-do conspiracy or not.

  20. Several issues need to be resolved before states can prudently issue drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants.

    Drivers licenses are official government IDs as much as they’re licenses to drive. Perhaps more, because I hold other government licenses which are not IDs and have almost no identification value. (Try to travel by air with just your cosmetology license, for example.) Giving a government imprimatur to someone who’s here in violation of the law just seems illogical.

    Further, to get IDs, these “undocumented workers” will need to produce documents: birth certificates, school or work IDs, utility bills, rent receipts, etc. Leaving a paper trail is inconsistent with being in a foreign country illegally. Will these documents need to be forged? Many illegals use the Social Security Number of legal residents. Will the licenses be issued in the names of fake people? Even if issued in their real names, will the licensees update the DMV every time they move?

    Recently, Mexican consulates have been giving “Matriculars,” government IDs to their citizens in the US. Perhaps these could be used as the basis of identification for US drivers licenses, but states would have to assure illegals that they would not share their information with the federal government, which could deport them. Although being here illegally is not a crime, requiring one to confess their illegal status sounds a lot like a Fifth Amendment violation.

  21. What Spitzer did was incredibly stupid and wrong but I just hope this terrible mistake does not overturn or dismiss all the hard work he has done or the ideas he stands for.
    Yesterday I attended the Family Planning Advocates’ annual conference where Governor Spitzer was scheduled to speak but “could not make it” (later in the day we all found out why). David Patterson, the Lieutenant Governor and JoAnn Smith, the President and CEO of the FPA both spoke highly of him for his commitment to women’s health and women’s rights as he has often stuck his neck on the line to do so. He introduced the Reproductive Health and Privacy Protection Act only 7 days after Gonzaeles v. Carhart Supreme Court decision that put politics before women’s health. The RHPPA bill is still in the rules committe and currently does not have the support it needs to get passed. I think what is important to remember here is a comment from Spitzer’s televised speech yesterday:

    ” I do not believe that politics in the long run is about individuals. It is about ideas, the public good, and doing what is best for the state of New York…”

    I just hope Spitzer’s mistakes in such a crucial point in his career will not overshadow the progressive steps he had taken for the people of New York.

    Also some gossip: Yesterday there were lots of Senator’s Aides and staff members scurrinying around preparing to swear in David Patterson, and many senator staff members (Democrat) said it would not be good for him to stay, but they had full faith that the Democrats would still take over in ’08.

  22. Drivers licenses are official government IDs as much as they’re licenses to drive. Perhaps more, because I hold other government licenses which are not IDs and have almost no identification value. (Try to travel by air with just your cosmetology license, for example.) Giving a government imprimatur to someone who’s here in violation of the law just seems illogical.

    The obvious answer to that concern, to me at least, would be to reduce the importance of government identification. I can’t really think of a whole lot of situations in which anyone has any need to know who I am. The proliferation of IDs has lead to the erosion of privacy and an assumption that people must produce papers to engage in a wide variety of behaviors. The entire point of a driver’s license is to verify that someone is licensed to drive. The only valid rationale for their existence is a public safety concern, the argument that the state should ensure that someone seeking to operate a vehicle weighing in excess of a ton and moving at a high rate of speed is proficient in it’s use. Any purpose beyond that is purely tangential and obfuscatory given that we’re discussing people who want to get a license so they can drive a car.

    Further, to get IDs, these “undocumented workers” will need to produce documents: birth certificates, school or work IDs, utility bills, rent receipts, etc. Leaving a paper trail is inconsistent with being in a foreign country illegally. Will these documents need to be forged? Many illegals use the Social Security Number of legal residents. Will the licenses be issued in the names of fake people? Even if issued in their real names, will the licensees update the DMV every time they move?

    The only reason that many documents are needed is to prove that the person in the picture is the person named on the license. The only reason for that is because we use licenses for reasons other than verifying proficiency in automobile operation. I don’t care if someone presents a fake name for their license, as long as the person in the picture is the person who passed the test, I’m satisfied. If its really a concern, we can have separate driver’s licenses and state IDs.

    Also, I rarely update my license unless I’m buying a gun or flying. The state doesn’t need to know where I live, just that I know how to drive.

    Recently, Mexican consulates have been giving “Matriculars,” government IDs to their citizens in the US. Perhaps these could be used as the basis of identification for US drivers licenses, but states would have to assure illegals that they would not share their information with the federal government, which could deport them. Although being here illegally is not a crime, requiring one to confess their illegal status sounds a lot like a Fifth Amendment violation.

    Ah, yes, we should refuse them the right to drive for their own good. Its about civil rights, now I get it? Bring real arguments, disingenuous crap is boring.

  23. william,
    Spin it this way, what exactly is the benefit to the mass waves of immigration? Like I said before, I dont care either way, I phrased my initial post poorly as the first paragraph was just me mocking the people who espouse those views.

    Why exactly are the immigration laws bad? There have been many periods in the history of this country than immigration has been severely restricted, for good reasons and for bad. They are in no way comparable to any of the examples you gave and I don’t see youre point, you cant just say “theyre bad laws!” and then proceed to compare this situation to others that simply arent even close to being the same thing.

    Yes I have been closer than my local taco bell, lived for several years in southern calfornia and west texas and through my time in the military met people of all colors, should that really matter? How am I supposed to look at the MEchA/aztlan/reconquista movement and some of the writings/positions of its supporters?

    And finally, yes, if they “want to contribute”. A rather large difference between now and other eras of immigration in American history is the welfare state that we now live in. Immigrants cost money and cause wages to drop or stagnate, kind of a funny thing “no one would work this job for 2 bucks an hour but them!” ah yes true but the wage wouldn’t be 2 bucks an hour if not for them. Does this country have a responsibilty to take all comers and subsidize their entire existence? Of course that doesnt apply to the majority of immigrants but it does happen and its frustrating just as people of any background not working when they can is frustrating. I really dont see how an open border policy or getting rid of those “bad” laws will help anything.

    That all being said, I do dislike some of the immigration policies and believe we should be freer but also that we should adopt some further revisions to our policies that make it harder for unskilled labor to access this country illegally.

    The person above who compared the field worker to the pilot…really? Is doing farm labor 16 hours a day harder than flying a plane? Really depends on how you define hard doesnt it? I can find tens of millions of people who can do the farm labor, not so much with flying a plane and I dont see it as more noble. i would like for everyone to have a shot at a better life is it really a “right” to illegally enter a country?

  24. william,
    Spin it this way, what exactly is the benefit to the mass waves of immigration? Like I said before, I dont care either way, I phrased my initial post poorly as the first paragraph was just me mocking the people who espouse those views.

    Cheaper labor which leads to cheaper unskilled services, cheaper food prices (especially produce, but the effect trickles down pretty much throughout all aspects of the domestic food market), genetic and cultural diversity, new music in my neighborhood, new and interesting restaurants within walking distance of my house, new flavors in the little markets that pop up to give immigrants a taste of home, and a influx of hard working people who dump incredible value into the economy and raise children who tend to have fairly high work ethics.

    Why exactly are the immigration laws bad? There have been many periods in the history of this country than immigration has been severely restricted, for good reasons and for bad.

    I really can’t think of a single historic example of immigration being restricted for any reason other than racism or economic protectionism. Feel free to enlighten me if you can think of one though.

    How am I supposed to look at the MEchA/aztlan/reconquista movement and some of the writings/positions of its supporters?

    I can’t speak for you, but I can tell you how I look at them. They’re a handful of radicals clinging to a pipe dream. I live in Chicago (a town with a couple of Mexican immigrants) and I can tell you that the vast majority of immigrants I’ve met really don’t have the time or inclination for politics. They’re too busy trying to improve their lot in life. Hell, I work in a school setting thats predominantly Mexican and Puerto Rican, has a history of radical leftist activism, and even they see the aztlan crowd as jokes. I see them as kind of like radical white supremacists or the nation of Islam: offensive and worthy of response, but not really representative of all (or most) people who look like them.

    Does this country have a responsibilty to take all comers and subsidize their entire existence?

    Well, I’d argue that the extensive and inefficient welfare system is the problem, not the immigration.

  25. Does this country have a responsibilty to take all comers and subsidize their entire existence?

    Just a comment in regards to public programs; many programs require a minimum “waiting period” of five years living in the US before a non-citizen can even apply for them. Even then, it’s very tedious to start the process to apply, considering all the documentation that needs to be provided. So, this “subsidize” statement is quite the error.

    How am I supposed to look at the MEchA/aztlan/reconquista movement and some of the writings/positions of its supporters?

    I have the similar experience as William. The majority of Mexicans I know view it as a joke.

  26. And by non-citizens, I mean documented non-citizens. Undocumented individuals don’t qualify for programs, except emergency Medicaid.

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