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Gardasil for Boys

Apparently the idea of vaccinating boys against HPV is a tad controversial — even though the vaccine is already approved for girls.

At issue is the fact that HPV is a major risk factor for cervical cancer, which women can get but boys can’t. So parents are wondering why they have to vaccinate their boys for a “girl’s disease.” What the article doesn’t get to until halfway down the second page is that the strains of HPV prevented by Gardasil are the ones that cause genital warts, penile cancer and anal cancer — and I’m relatively confident that boys can get all of those. But that doesn’t stop the reporter from writing an entirely sexist, condescending and obnoxious hit piece about vaccinating boys against HPV:

HOW cool are those Gardasil Girls? Riding horses, flinging softballs, bashing away on drum sets: on the television commercials, they are pugnacious and utterly winning. They want to be “One Less,” they chant — one less victim of cervical cancer. Get vaccinated with Gardasil, they urge their sisters. Protect yourselves against the human papillomavirus, or H.P.V., which causes cervical cancer.

But someone’s missing from this grrlpower tableau.

Ah, that would be Gardasil Boy.

Has Jan Hoffman never seen a pharmaceutical commercial in his/her life? They all show shiny happy people going kayak or mountain-climbing or doing whatever else they couldn’t do before they had medicine to treat genital herpes / arthritis / heart disease / whatever. That’s the schtick. Although I suppose it’s more fun to mock the “Gardasil Girl” than it is to deal with the actual issues; and it’s more interesting to paint a picture of a controversial vaccine than to recognize that most people are a-ok with preventing cancer.

I understand the hesitancy to give your kids a new vaccine. I haven’t gotten the HPV vaccine largely because I can’t afford it and it’s not covered by my insurance, but I’ve certainly weighed the potential risks of getting injected with a relatively new product, and I’d be lying if I said it didn’t make me nervous. That said, I tend to be personally averse to medical treatment in general, so it’s more a weird individual thing about me being a paranoid scaredy-cat than it is about Gardasil. And at the end of the day, watching more than one friend go through HPV-related health problems has convinced me that the vaccine is the way to go.

Point being, I understand parents’ hesitancy. But vaccines aren’t just about your own personal health — they’re about public health. And that understanding is missing in this piece.

Thankfully, a few parents seem to get it:

That’s good enough for some mothers. “If there was a vaccine I could take that would get rid of prostate cancer, why wouldn’t I?” said Lisa Lippman, a Manhattan real estate broker with three sons. “If there was a vaccine that sons could get that would get rid of breast cancer, most parents wouldn’t hesitate. But cervical cancer is the ‘sex cancer.’ ”

Unfortunately, the reporter doesn’t — and s/he plays right into sexist stereotypes by only talking to mothers, as if moms are the only family members who care about their children’s health.

The article is kind of infuriating, but this quote was my absolute favorite:

A few prescient pediatricians are already laying a foundation. The other day, during Cathy Anderson’s 11-year-old son’s annual check-up, the pediatrician mentioned that Gardasil might become available for boys.

“He talked about taking responsibility for controlling a communicable disease,” said Mrs. Anderson, a stay-at-home mother in West Lafayette, Ind. “My first reaction was: ‘Well, that makes sense.’ Then I told my son he wouldn’t have to worry about the disease, because he wouldn’t be having sex until he’d been married for a long time.”

So now you don’t just have to wait until you’re married, you have to wait until you’ve been married for a long time. Beautiful.

Lots of diseases disproportionately affect one community or another. But when those diseases are deadly, and when we find a way to prevent them, we do. This isn’t about “vaccinating boys for girls’ sake;” this is about a public health issue that we need to nip in the bud. And the fact that “lots of women die of this disease and almost all of them get it from men” isn’t enough reason to vaccinate boys too is a pretty good indicator of just how misogynist and backwards our society can be.

Finally, why the fuck is this article in the Styles section?


69 thoughts on Gardasil for Boys

  1. “But my sons won’t contract cervical cancer. And genital warts are treatable. I’m very skeptical.”

    Jesus. Somebody needs to tell that lady that genital warts are like herpes–it’s manageable, yes, but the potential for an outbreak never really goes away, and you’re going to have a lot of fun explaining your HPV+ to future sex partners, some of whom are going to decide you’re not worth the risk. That’s before you get to penile cancer and not being okay with your kid getting a preventable fucking STD.

  2. Well, duh, men’s health is like _real_ health while women’s health is a style issue. It’s totally out of style for men and boys to protect women’s health, but those gardasil girls are pretty stylish for women’s health.

  3. Your last statement was my first thought when I read the article in my weekend NY Times edition. I guess women’s health is a lifestyle choice to the NY Times.

  4. More stupidity from parents who are unable to come to terms with the eventuality of their children becoming adults.

  5. “You don’t want to say it’s just the girls’ problem,” Mrs. Cattell said hesitantly.

    Wow. Yeah, fuck those sluts anyway. WTF, lady.

  6. Gardisil for boys? Where do I sign up my 9 year old son?

    Seriously, he was born 4 weeks premature because I had part of my cervix removed due to an HPV infection. If there is anything I can do to spare any woman the agony of a LEEP or dealing with an infant in a NICU, I’m all over it.

  7. We’ll know we’ve made progress on this issue when the day arrives when Gardasil is married with an ED drug. I’m pretty sure from all of the pharmaceutical commercials I’ve watched that you’re never too young or old for an erection that lasts over four hours.

  8. I feel so terrible for that 11-year-old boy. He probably wanted to crawl under a rock and die hearing his mother say a) stupid shit b) about sex.

    We’re weighing when to get our oldest kid vaccinated, because Gardasil is a fairly new vaccine and there are others coming onto the market. But neither her father nor I is willing to put her at risk of HPV and cancer just to preserve some freaky parental hallucation of OMFG MY PRECIOUS BABY WILL NEVER HAVE TEH SEX!!!

  9. So, if we start calling the boys Typhoid Mary, will the author get the point? (Not a strategy I’m advocating, mind you.) But seriously: why do you want your kid to be someone who could seriously hurt someone they love?

  10. …I can’t help but this the “married for a long time” thing was a misspeak. Perhaps she meant something like “for a long time; until you’re married.” Because he is 11, and marriage is hopefully fairly far off for an 11 year old – 7 years at the bare minimum.

  11. I’m a 24 year old guy, and my girlfriend got the HPV vaccine this year; the first thing i thought when i heard about Gardasil was “Wow, *I* really want to get that!” How could any caring person not want to take a simple step to protect the person they’re with from a potentially deadly disease?

    And maybe i missed a memo, but isn’t it like a HUGE advantage in dating to be able to say “i’ve been vaccinated, so you can be sure i’m not going to give you a horrible std” ? Parents would be totally screwing their kids over by not getting them vaccinated.

    In twenty years, you won’t even be able to find a woman willing to marry you if you haven’t been vaccinated, so really that mom won’t have to worry… her kid probably won’t be having sex under ANY circumstance.

  12. Most people who are infected have no symptoms and can transmit it unknowingly.”

    That is reason enough to me to encourage vaccination.

  13. Wow. Yeah, fuck those sluts anyway. WTF, lady.

    It’s strange you think she just hates women. Why is her idea that cervical cancer is “just the girls’ problem” wrong? Why shouldn’t she worry instead about her son’s problems?

    You’re all going to hate me, but cervical cancer effects a small proportion of women, all of whom will be able to protect themselves by being vaccinated. It’s just nuts to vaccinate boys at $300 a go in order to prevent an unprotected woman from potentially being infected and then potentially contracting cancer in 20 years time. It’s a massive cost for a very small additional benefit.

    It’s actually quite sick that this is being pushed at boys because of a fixation on women’s health. I won’t do the litany, but boys and men have far worse health outcomes than girls and women. $300 per child (or $600 per woman) is a lot of money. Why spend it on a “girls’ problem” when boys have troubles of their own? The boys we’re proposing vaccinating have now, and will have in the future, more substantial medical problems than girls – and I’m sure $300 could help.

    There is a subtext behind this all this which which is all about whose lives are more worthy of spending money on than others. Obviously god forbid anyone should think we should spend it on someone other than the horse riding, softball flinging girls.

  14. James, I’d suggest you look around at the widespread effects of HPV. It’s not just about cervical cancer, although that’s obviously the most extreme outcome. HPV causes a whole series of health issues that demand expensive, invasive and painful responses. A huge percentage of the population has HPV, and a significant number of people suffer HPV-related heath consequences — far more than just the number of women who die of cervical cancer. And as I said in the post, HPV impacts mens’ health too.

  15. Point being, I understand parents’ hesitancy. But vaccines aren’t just about your own personal health — they’re about public health.

    Many parents of children, especially those 12 and under tend to be wary of anything remotely associated with sexual matters. They are probably viewing this vaccine as another perceived example of “Liberals forcing evil sex” on their kids.

  16. Thanks for posting this. I’m doing a project on the HPV vaccine this week and this will help a lot!

    If women decided to stop sleeping with guys who hadn’t been vaccinated, I bet they’d all jump on it, stat.

  17. Once more… with feeling. HPV can be transmitted non-sexually. I know it never shows up in news articles, but I do research in the field.

    Secondly, James can you explain these alleged health outcomes. Do you mean anal and penile cancers caused by HPV? Do you mean oral cancers caused by same? Do you mean genital warts? If not, you may find a thread where your paltry attempt at concern trolling is welcome. We are talking about the way vaccines work. Gardasil is an HPV vaccine, not a cervical cancer vaccine. About 43% of people (not just the bitches, you know) are infected with HPV. In order to bring that number down (if it is a good health goal, which is debatable), you have to vaccinate everyone, even your precious penis-carrying victims. Asshat!

  18. “Why shouldn’t she worry instead about her son’s problems?”

    She should, but if you’d rtfa, you’d see that the rest of the quote is about how if her sons get dick-warts, well, they’re treatable, right?

    So, you know, no need to get her boys a shot to make sure they won’t need to go to a doctor to have warts frozen, burned, cut, or injected off their penises. No need to get her boys a shot to make sure they won’t have to spend the rest of their lives checking for new growths or, in their later years, keeping an eye out for penile neoplasms. I mean, seriously, if I ever have sons? They’re getting the vaccine first and foremost because I never want them to have to worry about needing parts of their penis zapped off with a fucking laser.

  19. “It’s actually quite sick that this is being pushed at boys because of a fixation on women’s health.”
    Are you serious?! Fixation?! Who has a fixation on women’s health? The medical community? Hardly. Society? The women’s health article was in the fucking style section of the paper? Us feminists on this blog, representing a severe minority in the general populous? Fuck yeah were worried about women’s health. If we aren’t, who will be?

    Besides, this is about women’s AND men’s health, as has been pointed out. But still, I seriously doubt that many women would be up in arms about preventing something like this in men.

    Although I do agree with your point about the cost. I certainly can’t afford that and that’s why I never got the injection. A lot of parents of boys and girls can’t afford that.

    Although I have a funny feeling that if this were a male-only health concern, or it was more widely-known that this effects men, that maybe it would be covered by insurance more readily. (You know, for those lucky enough to have insurance…… )

  20. It’s strange you think she just hates women. Why is her idea that cervical cancer is “just the girls’ problem” wrong?

    Herd immunity, swee’pea. Look it up.

  21. Why is it that just because a STD affects one gender more than another, the other gender shouldn’t be held equally responsible? Sexual health is not just a women’s issue, it’s a human issue and we all need to take responsibility for it, regardless of who gets hurt most.

    I took an HIV/AIDS class a couple years ago, and we talked about how men are more responsible for the transfer of the disease, yet I don’t see many news outlets blaming men. If it were the other way around though … women would be quaranteened and covered like middle-eastern women so that the precious men weren’t endangered.

    When are we going to start dealing with these issues as a society and stop pointing fingers, pushing drugs on certain “high-risk” people, and disowning personal responsibility?

  22. How ’bout we think about the myriad ways women are expected to take care of public health. You know, women need to get regular check-ups (and schedule them for their husbands too). Women need to eat right and exercise (for the children). Women need to take f***ing folate just in case they get pregnant . And forget about fish if you’re even of childbearing age . Seriously? Why do we have to eat and not smoke for the whole freakin’ planet? Because women are responsible for public health.

    Still waiting for James to explain his oh so bad health issue for the poor widdle boys…

  23. The attitude espoused by James is what REALLY squicks me about Gardisil. What’s the point of a vaccine? To prevent infection, or eventually eradicate the disease?

    What if, instead of giving the polio vax to everyone, we only gave it to a certain population. That way, the disease is still around, the vaccine can still be sold, and it is only LESS prevalent.

    I think that making Gardisil a girl’s only vax is the most evil money making scheme ever. We could eradicate this disease, but then we couldn’t charge parents $300 a pop! So, let’s only vax half the population, decrease ONE problem, and keep raking in the dough!

  24. one thing missing from this conversation is a an analysis of the profit that merck and gsk stand to make off vaccinating boys. there is no doubt that hpv has real and serious health consequences for both women and men but spending this huge amount of money and time advocating for expensive vaccines is not always the best solution.

    until the vaccine AND comprehensive preventative screening care is available for all people a miracle vaccine probably has little population wide public health benefit. at this point the only folks who can afford the vaccine are the same people who can afford regular healthcare visits and well woman care. let’s not fall into the trap of advocating for high corporate profits at the expense of broader access to real healthcare.

  25. This is my speciality, and I’m glad it made the Times, and furious that it was in the Style section.
    Mandating a vaccine for only girls, when both men and women can be infected has been a huge issue for public health ethicists. It raises both ethical questions (one group bearing the entire burden for the population) and Constitutional issues. Gardisal was okayed for use on males in Europe- and it should be in the US as well.

  26. The boys we’re proposing vaccinating have now, and will have in the future, more substantial medical problems than girls

    Such as?

  27. You’re all going to hate me, but cervical cancer effects a small proportion of women, all of whom will be able to protect themselves by being vaccinated. It’s just nuts to vaccinate boys at $300 a go in order to prevent an unprotected woman from potentially being infected and then potentially contracting cancer in 20 years time. It’s a massive cost for a very small additional benefit.

    Not having genital warts is a “very small additional benefit”? Not causing a woman cervical cancer is “a very small additional benefit”? I guess it depends on whether or not you’re the one with warts or cancer, doesn’t it?

    I also like how the assumption here is that all boys will fuck only women from their own culture and socio-economic class who can be depended upon to have been vaccinated themselves, and hey, if instead they screw poor women whose insurance didn’t cover the vaccines or immigrants who come from a country where the vaccine isn’t available, well, fuck ’em. That’s the sluts’ mistake, I guess, for assuming that someone they have sex with has some basic human decency.

  28. For the record, I’m a guy, and as soon as this shit is approved, I’m on it. YAY no sores for me, and I won’t be transmitting something that can kill people. YAY! I do know there’s mercury in standard childhood vaccines, and fluoride is a convenient way to deal with industrial aluminum waste. But aside from hurting a little, I can’t find anything bad about Gardasil. Even the conspiracy theory is exceptionally thin. Besides, I don’t think they’d run a Tuskegee experiment on affluent white women. It seems to be just good smart medicine.

  29. I guess women’s health is a lifestyle choice to the NY Times.

    Nah, the Times doesn’t think cervical cancer is about “style” (as opposed to health) any more than they thought Jessica Valenti’s book review was a “style” (as opposed to … a book review). They just don’t think women read any other sections of the newspaper.

    Assholes.

  30. Just to point out, cervical cancer is not the only cancer associated with HPV. A substantial minority of head and neck cancers are HPV related as are most anal cancers and possibly some skin cancers. Men have mouths and anuses, right? Then they should be vaccinated as soon as it is proven that the vaccine is safe in males. Assuming, of course, that it is. It needs to be tested first–one can’t assume that it will be safe in men just because it is in women.

  31. I do know there’s mercury in standard childhood vaccines

    There is so much misinformation about this subject on the internet, it’s scary. Thimerosal was a mercury based preservative that used to be used in vaccines. Although there was no evidence that it was in any way dangerous, and the amount of mercury was ridiculously small, as a response to public concern it is no longer used in any childhood vaccines in the US. While it is still in the flu shot, non-thimerosal containing flu vaccinations are available.

    Meanwhile, in San Diego, there’s a measles outbreak because of parents not vaccinating their kids. We need better science education in this country.

  32. . I won’t do the litany, but boys and men have far worse health outcomes than girls and women.

    Multiple studies have demonstrated that men and boys receive better healthcare than women and girls. Yet men live shorter lives and boys are more likely to die in childhood than girls. I’m afraid the truth is that men are in fact weaker than women. The lack of backup X chromosome can be a killer. Literally.

  33. Call me crazy and superstitious, but Gardasil has set off red flags for me twice early in it’s publication.
    -The first time I’d ever heard of it, Texas wanted to make it mandatory for it’s girls.
    -The commercials are wild for grrrl power.

    Since when was Texas the progressive state for women’s health and rights? And why are they pushing a vaccine that has -just- been released. So eager are they to test it out on girls, boys would never be ‘forced’ to become lab rats.

    And what is the deal with the angle they’re taking in advertising this. Clearly, they see feminists as the greatest threat/ally in the success of this vax.

    I’ll admit, I’m out of the age range for it right now and I’m not certainly not the most informed person on the subject. But the whole campaign leaves me with a weird feeling. Like what have these f’kers so eager to shoot us up with this, what have they ever done for us?

  34. “Mandating a vaccine for only girls, when both men and women can be infected has been a huge issue for public health ethicists.”

    It seems like a logical game-plan if you don’t think you can get public support on the genital warts/various types of cancer grounds, though. If you can get women thoroughly on board due to the rather dramatic risk the disease poses to them, it should not be difficult to parlay progress made on that front (mandates, insurance coverage, state coverage of costs) into automatic coverage for boys and young men once it’s approved for them.

  35. @James. You’re right. The Health Industry should focus a lot more attention on boys. When you think of how far $300 can go in curing Erectile Dysfunction and hair loss (both of which are probably covered by most health insurance plans).. it’s a damn shame to think that boys should be put out by a vaccine that brags of nearly eliminating cervical cancer and some STD’s.

    Silly boy. The argument is selfish. If the Vax really does work, it is for anyone who’s ever loved half as much as they’ve fucked. Not just girls.

  36. I have asked my pediatrician twice about whether the vaccination will be available for boys. Twice she has condescendingly explained that boys “don’t need it.” I will continue to pester, because anyone who can transmit a disease that might cause cancer in girls “needs” it, in my opinion. If it turns out he’s gay, well — I’d rather be safe than sorry in any case.

    I know, I know…my 11-year-old boy will NEVER have sex until he is married to a VIRGIN GIRL.

    Right.

  37. -The first time I’d ever heard of it, Texas wanted to make it mandatory for it’s girls.
    -The commercials are wild for grrrl power

    1. Rick Perry, the governor of Texas, apparently has ties to Merck, which makes Gardasil.

    2. Right. Because they can’t do commercials about sex because OMG if there’s a VACCINE for an STI people will run out and copulate all over the place!!!

  38. We need better science education in this country.

    The understatement of the century.

    And I can’t agree more that it SHOULDN’T have to affect boys and men in order for them to take responsibility for women’s health issues. But since when are boys and men living in a woman-free vacuum? Even if HPV didn’t affect their health, men and boys are obviously affected when a woman in their lives suffers from cervical cancer. Does it not matter to these people that boys are also affected if their mother/grandmother/sister/aunt dies?

    The callousness of these people towards women’s own lives is compounded by their misogynist attitude that men and boys are not at all affected by what happens to women.

  39. I’d rather get my son a gardasil vax than a chicken pox one. I know that makes me naive and crazy, but I’ve been called worse!

  40. Why people are dragging their heels kicking and screaming I don’t know. God knows people shut up about vaccines after the Polio epidemic. Now that that’s faded into the past, people have forgotten how much we owe to those childhood shots. I guess it’ll take some massive outbreaks of childhood illnesses that should be just a bad memory for some people to wake the heck up. Or better yet have an adult child take their parents to court for not getting them the medical treatments they needed to protect them for the rest of their lives.

  41. I’m only semi-informed about Gardasil, so please don’t hold it against me if what I say is a year out of date. When my wife and I discussed Gardasil, she was rather hesitant about getting our daughter inoculated once she was old enough because the studies put forth confirming gardasil’s safety were rather small and limited. Also Perry’s (we live in Texas) ties to Merck and his pushing it so fiercely gave us a really bad vibe about Merck’s plans: “yes, it’s untested, but if millions of girls get treated the fears of parents in other states will be assuaged. And hell, it’s probably safe anyway.”

    We left left it at that, since our daughter is still less than five years old, so we won’t have to make a decision for a while. By that time, we’re hoping that more extensive studies will be out. And make no mistake- if our daughter takes it, our 1-year-old son will take it too.

    There’s also another benefit to Gardasil that wasn’t mentioned, mostly because people are a bit on the sexually squeamish side- HPV can also cause throat and Esophageal cancer. how it gets there is left as an exercise for the reader.

  42. The problem is that Gardasil has been marketed solely as a cervical cancer preventative. Change the marketing, and boys will get vaccinated. Adequate sex education would also explain that males perform oral sex on females, and can pick up HPV and thus oral cancers by doing so.

    Remember though, that there are people who don’t get their kids vaccinated as a rule, because of religious or philosophical objections, or because of medical reasons. The whole vaccine->thimoseral->autism hysteria didn’t help. I don’t think Christian Scientists are going to get vaccinations any time soon. For vaccination to suppress outbreaks in a population, as many people as possible must be vaccinated to make up for these gaps.

  43. What I wrote her: (And yes, I gave you a shout out!)

    Dear Ms. Hoffman,

    Your piece from February 24th, 2008 was brought to my attention by http://www.feministe.us/. As I began “Vaccinating Boys for Girls’ Sake?” I was hoping that it would cover how close the pharmaceutical community is to producing an HPV vaccine for men. I assumed there would be some discussion about HPV being marketed mostly as a woman’s problem, but what I didn’t anticipate your sarcasm and overall unprofessional tone that you brought to this issue.

    Instead of informing your readers, you simply reinforced the idea that HPV is the “sex cancer”; not a virus that can be spread simply by physical contact. And since many sexual education programs put “outercourse” in the safe column of sexual activity, many young people may have been exposed to a strain of HPV before they even lose their virginities.

    While it is important to note that HPV is the “most common sexually transmitted infection” it should also be mentioned that the term ‘safe sex’ doesn’t always mean you’re protected from everything. Yes, the use of condoms and hormone birth control can prevent many STIs and STDs as well as pregnancy, but HPV isn’t on that list. Because it is spread through skin contact (which you failed to mention) a condom only provides a certain amount of protection. As most doctors and they will tell you if you’ve had intercourse with someone HPV positive with or without protection, you probably have been exposed.

    It seems the medical community isn’t just slacking when it comes to a vaccine for men, but that they’re also behind on an HPV test for them as well. And yes, you are correct that only a few strains of HPV “may result in disease”. However when you quote a medical professional who muses that “genital warts are a really yucky disease…” I feel as if this piece is meant for those 11 year old boys you seem so protective of and not their concerned mothers and fathers who are in search of valid and worthwhile information.

    Perhaps the real problem here is the lack of sexual education for America’s youth, and I see where controversy about this issue may arise as you quote a woman who explains that her son won’t have to deal with HPV “because he wouldn’t be having sex until he’d been married for a long time.” While this perspective isn’t uncommon for most parents dealing with their pre pubescent children’s sexuality, is it the best way to end a piece that is meant to grapple with the spreading of a sexually transmitted virus?

    While I am glad that the issue of an HPV vaccine for men is being discussed in the main stream media, it greatly saddens me to see the issue framed in this manner. The importance of eradicating this problem gets muddled when writers and people alike start playing the chicken or the egg game about who is infecting who. Because there is no HPV test for men that means unless they exhibit symptoms (remember those “yucky” warts from earlier?) they won’t know that they’re exposing their partner. Likewise, if women don’t get a pap smear each year they might not know that something is wrong, a problem that may ultimately lead to cancer (for them or their partner).

    All in all I think this may all come back to the problem of HPV being viewed as a STD. If someone smokes cigarettes for 10 years, quits for 20 and then gets lung cancer, are they maligned for those years lost to nicotine addiction? Conversely, those with STIs & STDs are judged not because of their affliction, but because of how they got it. Seems that the problem isn’t the disease, but instead our ideas about sexuality. Sex is fine as long as it is within the confines of marriage, without unplanned pregnancy, and free of medical complication. Sadly, this is not the reality we live in, as the battle against HIV/AIDs rages on not only abroad but in our own nation as well. And until we realize that no one is immune to misfortune, people won’t step up and speak out for those who have been silenced with negative labels and harsh social stigma.

    PS: While I love the “Fashion & Style” section, I can’t help but wonder why this piece is included there?

  44. Do these people know nothing?
    Boys are routinely vaccinated against rubella in the UK (it’s apparently been eradicated in the US). The main reason rubella is vaccinated against at all, considering it’s generally not very serious, is because if a pregnant woman gets it, it can cause severe birth defects. This issue is no different – the whole point of vaccines is safety in numbers.

  45. Vaccine discussions are always informative about our relationships and duty to each other as people, and when other layers such as gender and sexuality come into play this is amplified. Those doing complex system modeling of HIV for example have done quite a bit of thinking about vaccination strategies that are, at least theoretically/probabilistically, likely to be the most successful. One line of thinking builds on the finding that the virus seems to be most transmittable to others closer to the time of infection. Researchers have suggested that a successful vaccination strategy would be a vaccine that does not prevent you from getting the virus (our traditional vaccine approach), but one that reduces the likelihood of you infecting someone else. This would create a situation where on an individual level there would be no direct protective benefit to you getting vaccinated (i.e., you can still get the disease), but it would reduce transmission rates hopefully to the point that the virus drops below replacement rates in the population and is thus eliminated. This pushes some of the themes in this thread even further, b/c at least in this example men still have bad outcomes to themselves from HPV – but what would be the chances that enough people would go get vaccinated when it doesn’t protect them from HIV but someone else? Even though in the end it would protect them since it would reduce HIV in the population to much lower levels. Again, since people see it as a “sex” or “drug” disease they wouldn’t think about what duty they have to other people and likely instead focus on the whether those other people “deserve” help from their “bad choices.” Discussions about vaccinations tell us a lot about how we organize ourselves to live together as people and the value we place on different “them” groups.

  46. As a parent, one of the biggest problems I had with this vaccine was that it was being mandated – for girls only. That’s discriminatory. Add the fact that the vaccine is not adequately tested (no long term studies) and potentially carcinogenic, plus it has been causing dramatic side effects – so many seizures and fainting episodes that it’s now being recommended that the shot be given while the patient is lying down. Not cool. Hard not to feel like our daughters are being used as guinea pigs.

    I have a daughter in this age range. She will never get this vaccine. Why? First of all, it was never tested on young girls her age (9-11). And why did they rush it right onto the childhood vaccination schedule? Since cervical cancer has a 15-20 year incubation rate, and the average age of getting it is 47 (which means women contract it at an average age of 30 or so), why the rush to give my 10-year-old this shot?

    Universal pap smear testing would be a far, far more worthy and cost-effective recipient of the zillions of dollars Merck stands to get for it.

    I could go on, but I won’t! As a feminist, I would demand that if girls have to get the shot, boys should too. But as a conscientious parent of two girls and one boy, I think no child, or even young teenager, should get this vaccine….and other women maybe only after it has been tested long term.

    It’s bad medicine, period.

  47. Two points.

    I’m certainly no fan of Perry’s and was rather pissed when he won a plurality of the vote to become governor again (Kinky Friedman and Carol Strayhorn are the Ralph Nader’s of Texas) but, making the vaccine required isn’t 100% self serving. If the vaccine was mandatory, the state would be obligated to pick up the charge of the vaccine.

    Also, I’m taking a course at UT over health issues and we discussed this. People often try to point out how small cervical cancer is in comparison to other cancers. The HPV issue is addressed, but another benefit is the fact that the annual cost of analyzing irregular pap smears goes to roughly 2 billion dollars a year.

    I’ve not seen the studies in detail, but if it’s safe, I’d say give it to every child we can, try to make HPV go the way of smallpox. The commercials to get guys taking the vaccine would be easy. “Do you want large, ugly, painful warts on Mr. Happy? If not, get vaccinated with guardasil.”

  48. My husband got HPV from his ex-fiancee. Taking her at her word he thought she was clean. She wasn’t and now I’ve got it as well. The real kicker is my husband is the only person I’ve ever had sex with. Love the irony. Yeah any kids we have, regardless of gender, will be getting the vaccine.

  49. I also got HPV from the first boy I had sex with (at 21, after we had been dating for three years- so I might register a 5 on the chaste-o-meter scale or something). Asshat.

    I honestly don’t understand why this is even an issue- who do they think is passing all this HPV around? Girls aren’t giving it to themselves. Why isn’t there more dialog about vaccinating the boys to prevent them from carrying the disease around and infecting more women?

    I honestly don’t understand- it’s like the general public are ignoring the very large pink elephant in the room.

  50. plus it has been causing dramatic side effects – so many seizures and fainting episodes that it’s now being recommended that the shot be given while the patient is lying down

    Hate to tell you, but it doesn’t seem to be a real side effect, as in a reaction to the vaccine itself. It seems to be that girls are being told to be so fearful of the vaccine because it’s all about TEH SEX!!! that they get themselves worked up about it. Not to mention that the age at which the girls are getting the vaccine is the peak age for needle phobias.

    Think back to being 10 or 12 years old. Now imagine that the doctor is giving you a shot that all of your friends tell you is all about SEX!!! and that s/he tells you will prevent you from getting cancer (SEX CANCER!!!) when you grow up.

    And your calculation about when your daughter might get infected is off by at least a decade. One study in 2005 showed that 49 out of 60 sexually active teenage girls got infected with HPV over the course of the 27-month study.

    If you’re not going to get your daughter a Gardasil vaccination, I strongly suggest you buy her a chastity belt unless you’re looking forward to her cervical cancer diagnosis in her 30s or 40s.

  51. No, James, we don’t hate you, unless you define “hate” as “mockery”. We just know you’re a fucking moron who doesn’t care about young men’s health, because you couldn’t care less about preventing anal and penile cancers (or maybe you’ve convinced yourself that only faggots get those diseases). All you see is the suggestion that money be spent in a way that benefits women at all, and that caused your three remaining brain cells to cease functioning.

  52. I have a daughter in this age range. She will never get this vaccine.

    Given that it’s approved for women up to the age of 26, you don’t have say over whether she “ever” gets it.

    And why did they rush it right onto the childhood vaccination schedule? Since cervical cancer has a 15-20 year incubation rate, and the average age of getting it is 47 (which means women contract it at an average age of 30 or so), why the rush to give my 10-year-old this shot?

    Sigh. You do know how vaccinations work, right? You have to vaccinate somebody before they’ve contracted the disease; otherwise the vaccination doesn’t work. When dealing with large populations, the best way to do this is to try to vaccinate well, well before it is even possible to contract the disease. Given that 9-11 is well before most girls begin sexual activity–unless they’re being molested–that is the most effective age at which to protect the greatest number of people.

  53. “Universal pap smear testing would be a far, far more worthy and cost-effective recipient of the zillions of dollars Merck stands to get for it.”

    Hear, hear. And if we ever come up with a vaccine that can prevent 90% of breast cancer, screw that, too. Universal mammography would be a much better use of our time and money.

    Honestly, though….Pap smears don’t prevent a damn thing. They themselves accomplish nothing. You do know that, right? It’s pretty much like getting a pokier, more invasive mammogram. Going and getting your breasts squished once a year neither prevents nor treats breast cancer. We do these things so that, if there is a problem, we can catch it when it’s still a small problem.

    What we’re actually comparing here is something that can prevent the need for a lot of treatment and something that’s just going to tell you when you need treatment, which is kind of silly. They’re two very different things. We can give people free pap smears until the cows come home, and it still won’t affect the number of women who need bits of their cervix chopped off. If we also pay for treatment of whatever the pap smear uncovers, it should decrease how much of their cervix needs to come off, how many need treatment for problems that have spread past their cervix, how many die of that, and how many go on to unwittingly infect a partner with HPV. But it won’t make it so they don’t need treatment.

    At the same time, vaccinating everybody isn’t going to make it so that nobody ever needs a pap smear again. HPV isn’t responsible for every cervix that goes rogue and start wrecking up the joint. Even if it was, we haven’t developed vaccines against all the problematic strains yet. We’re still going to need cryosurgeries and LEEPs and wang-zapping lasers. We’re just going to have a lot fewer people subjected to them.

  54. “He talked about taking responsibility for controlling a communicable disease,” said Mrs. Anderson, a stay-at-home mother in West Lafayette, Ind.

    Woo! Go my town! I hope that doctor keeps it up, and I most West Laff. parents are smart enough to listen.

  55. As I mentioned, the STD moniker is misleading because HPV can be transmitted vertically (mother to child) in utero or in childbirth and horizontally through basic diaper changing and even possibly (not tested enough yet) through non-touch in water droplets that contain the virus called foamites. That’s why very young children show up w/ anogenital warts and/or oral esophageal cancers from HPV when there is no evidence of sexual abuse.

    We need to change the ways we talk about this virus, so that the STD panic can end.

  56. As I mentioned, the STD moniker is misleading because HPV can be transmitted vertically (mother to child) in utero or in childbirth

    That just puts HPV on a par with syphilis and gonorrhea, which can cause blindness in newborns. For decades, babies’ eyes have been treated with antibiotic ointments or drops as a preventative.

  57. Jill,

    Thankfully, a few parents seem to get it:

    That’s good enough for some mothers. “If there was a vaccine I could take that would get rid of prostate cancer, why wouldn’t I?” said Lisa Lippman, a Manhattan real estate broker with three sons. “If there was a vaccine that sons could get that would get rid of breast cancer, most parents wouldn’t hesitate. But cervical cancer is the ‘sex cancer.’ ”

    All vaccines have harmful side effects. This one isn’t going to be any different. They’re usually given on the basis that the benefits greatly outweigh the risks, but with men no great benefits from the vaccine have been conclusively demonstrated and proven. Hence the problem. If the benefits of the vaccine are proven to outweight the risks for boys and men, then by all means give it to them – no arguments there. But you and others are arguing that even if that’s not the case, boys’ should be subjected to the risks anyway in order to benefit girls.

    If an adult would want to be vaccinated to protect someone else then that’s very noble and he should be congratulated.

    But suggesting that boys, who are too young to give their consent, should be exposed to the risks of side effects and adverse reactions in order to protect girls from diseases, and that parents should consent to this on their behalf, raises serious ethical concerns. If they’re damaged – by a vaccine that was meant to protect someone else – then I think they’ve got a legitimate complaint.

    There are ethical reasons for being wary about providing interventions which are not proven to be significantly beneficial to the recipient, but may harm them, without their consent. Something tells me that if the sexes were reversed you wouldn’t be so keen on pushing a vaccine on girls that was meant to benefit boys and men.

  58. By the way about the genital warts – they are curable and not life threatening. Furthermore, Merck has been entirely open about the justification for including protection against HPV types that lead to genital warts. Here’s a quote that can easily be found on google:

    [6 & 11 are included to] “give incentive to young men to also take the vaccine… Men don’t get cervical cancer. I always strongly felt that if we only go for cervical cancer types, there would be no reason for men to accept the vaccine. Even though they are vectors for transmitting the virus, they don’t usually have effects.”

    The compoment that immunises against types 16 and 18, that has no proven benefits for men and boys, is smuggled in along with the stuff that might benefit men in stopping genital warts.

    So in order to get men to take the vaccine, they bundle the two types together, tricking men into taking the stuff that doesn’t benefit them if they want stuff that does. One can argue that the contruction of the vaccine like this is dishonest.

  59. Multiple studies have demonstrated that men and boys receive better healthcare than women and girls. Yet men live shorter lives and boys are more likely to die in childhood than girls. I’m afraid the truth is that men are in fact weaker than women. The lack of backup X chromosome can be a killer. Literally.

    Your response is typical and predictable. Whenever women or girls are at a disadvantage in any area discrimination is automatically assumed. Whenever men and boys are, it’s always everything but discrimination.

    If our goverment is more concerned with health problems of men than of women how come there is no male counterpart to “Office on Women’s health”, despite the fact that men have more health problems and die younger than women?

    Why does our Federal government spend a lot more money on breast cancer research than on prostate cancer research?

    Why is there a National Women and Girls HIV/AIDS Awareness Day, but no similar day for boys and men?

    There is a mobile mammography van that is providing free mammograms and PAP tests to women. We do not offer equivalent services for men, such as prostate exams. The van also offers women, but not men, free screening for hypercholesterolemia, hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease.

    There is http://www.womenshealth.gov and http://www.girlshealth.gov, but no similar pages for men and boys in the .gov top domain.

    I think it’s very obvious that female health problems receieve greater attention than health problems of boys and men.

    Out of the curiosity I googled .gov top-level domain sites for “men’s health” and “women’s health” phrases – the results were very telling. There were 10 times as many hits for “women’s health” than for “men’s health”.

  60. All you see is the suggestion that money be spent in a way that benefits women at all, and that caused your three remaining brain cells to cease functioning.

    I think what he saw, mythago, is boys being asked to do something strictly for women’s benefit, which of course is wrong. Never mind that most women GET the virus from men, not other women. Never mind that men get the actual warts, too, and if they have sex with more than one woman in their lifetimes that means they can actually be the cause of those other women getting it in the first place.

    No, no–if the sluts are having sex they should go ahead and get cancer, even if he’s the one giving them the virus it’s their problem and their own damned fault. They were asking for it.

    /snark. Fucking concern troll asswipe.

  61. I think it’s very obvious that female health problems receieve greater attention than health problems of boys and men.

    Michael, you’re full of shit.

  62. People seem to be looking at this vaccine as a form of punishment. Lots of comments are some form of, “It’s unethical to make girls get the vaccine but not boys.”

    Why aren’t people excited to get it? As a male I wish the vaccine was available to me. The prospect of protecting yourself and anyone you have sex with is without a doubt an opportunity everyone should relish. Although HPV causes significantly more cases of cervical cancer, it does cause penile, anal and throat cancers.

    The idea that it’s not men’s responsibility because it’s a women’s disease is also perplexing. Since when were we a culture ignorant to the health of our society. I believe we still teach children to cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze right? No one says ‘Cough on whoever you want and let them deal with it.’

    As far as the safety goes, everyone should try and keep up with the current research before making commenting on it. The vaccine is purely a protein molecule containing no viral DNA, thus is it NOT oncogenic and NOT infectious.

    As far as mandating the vaccine, I’m not sure if I agree. I believe it’s up to the individual to make the responsible decision about when to get the vaccine. Not everyone becomes sexually active at the same age.

    Other than that I think people need to keep more open minds and respect what other people believe.

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