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Raucus Out With Your Caucus Out*

Jill

The Iowa caucus has returned victories for Obama and Huckabee. And I couldn’t be more thrilled — on both counts.

I didn’t do a pre-caucus endorsement for a few reasons. First, there isn’t a single candidate who really excites me. None of them exactly match up with my views, and there isn’t anyone who really gets me going. Second, I’ve had a bit of feminist guilt for not being a stronger Clinton supporter. She’s a brilliant politician, and hands down the smartest person running. She’s hard working, dedicated, accomplished… and I’ve been stoking a little flame of hope that the Wellesley girl is still alive in her. But she’s just so… moderate. And, while I know it was her husband’s policy, I can’t forgive her for shilling for welfare “reform.” I can get over her vote to give Bush power to go to war, but I can’t get over her refusal to apologize for it and really take responsibility. I can’t get excited about her. I don’t feel like she’s the one for me. And the “inevitable Hillary victory” canard was getting really tired. If she wins the primary I will certainly back her whole-heartedly, but I do want to see her challenged. Third, other women who I really respect are supporting Edwards (Amanda isn’t the only one, but she’s the one who has blogged about it), and I feel like I must be missing something, because I’m just not seeing it with him either.

But watching Obama tonight, I was smiling.

There’s an excitement there, and it’s more than just charisma. Yes, he is a politician and yes, he has less experience than Clinton, but damn if he isn’t good. As cynical as I am, I don’t think his emphasis on hope is a schtick. I think he’s an idealist. I think that may be a problem for him if he gets into office, and I think it’ll cause him to stumble a little bit. But there’s something very human about him. Just listening to his speech tonight, and hearing him address, as one example, genocide as one of the problems facing the international community was striking. You didn’t hear that too often under Bill Clinton. You certainly don’t hear it from the Bush administration. There are numerous political and strategic reasons why that word doesn’t get tossed around lightly, why ongoing genocides are obscured as “conflicts” and “civil wars.” The fact that Obama would use it in such an important speech — the fact that he and his people deemed it crucial enough to name — gives me, yes, hope.

Throughout the whole campaign process, I’ve been telling myself that I’m not going to back anyone, and that I’ll wait to see what happens and then work very hard for whoever wins. That still holds true. But watching Obama tonight, I was excited. I always feel excited when I watch him; I’ve just moderated that excitement by reminding myself of his flaws (politically moderate, fairly green, etc etc). But you know, tonight felt good. And if Obama takes it, I’m pretty sure I will be excited to go work for him. I haven’t felt that way about a candidate in a while.

As for Huckabee, well, I actually am happy he did so well, for two reasons: First, because it really does show the deep corporate pockets backing the Republican party that there are some things they can’t control. Second, Huckabee would get slaughtered in a general election.

Although if a Republican were guaranteed to win the Presidency — and I don’t think they will, but Democrats are not exactly the most competent at winning elections — I’d want it to be Romney or McCain over all others. Giuliani is basically Satan walking the earth, and Huckabee is a fucknut. So here’s to them losing, eventually.

Tonight, I’m feelin’ good. And I don’t think that’s just the red wine talking.

Who are you all supporting? Who do you hope the other guys nominate?

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*Title shamelessly stolen from Ann at Feministing.

52 thoughts on Raucus Out With Your Caucus Out*

  1. Supporting Obama. Feel bad for Edwards, on some modest sentimentality – he shoulda been the nominee in 2004, and his policy proposals are generally first-rate. Obama strikes me as the candidate who can win the largest margin of victory in the general election, and that margin is a mandate for change. And I always support the youngest Democrat in the race.

  2. O, and I hope the Republicans nominate anybody but Giuliani. Romney would be good, you don’t have to be Holden Caulfield to know he’s a phony.

  3. I’m definitely pulling for Obama. I always had my eye on him early on, but lately I’ve found myself more firmly backing him (a forum I frequent is enamored with him, and I come across some interesting articles about him that give me confidence in him).

  4. I was all about Obama for a good while, but recently kind of jumped on the Edwards bandwagon after seeing some debates and reading a little more about him. But if he doesn’t win, I will be equally as thrilled if Obama does. I guess I’m sort of on the fence between those two. If Hillary wins, I’ll still vote for her, but I’m really just not a fan of hers at this point. Everything she says sounds so regurgitated.

  5. i’m an edwards supporter, but i was excited to see obama win. hes my senator and hes a good guy, i just prefer edwards ideas thus far.

    for the other side, due to our amazing ability to lose elections, id like to see them nominate mccain, as he seems far less crazy than any other republican, and i like that he stands his ground as being opposed to torture. i cant believe that we’re in a situation where being opposed to torture makes a candidate stand out. wtf.

    i’m not a clinton supporter, but watching hillary and bill’s faces during her speech tonight made me a bit teary eyed. you could see the wind literally knocked out of their sails.

    i’ll vote for anyone with a (D) after their name come november.

  6. Jill, the way you describe your reaction to Obama reminds me of my reaction to Clinton (Bill). I’m a huge fan of Bill’s, and I tear up whenever he speaks, but he’s never been the most progressive guy in the room. Just the most charismatic. And it is, I suppose, the way people who could listen to his speeches reacted to Reagan (I guess — I was politically attentive during his administration but even then I couldn’t stand listening to him). Charisma’s as good as anything else, but it can mask an awful lot of crappy substance. The thing is, on substance and even in rhetoric, Obama strikes me as neither progressive or as particularly liberal. I LOVED his DNC speech a few years back, and I love his style, but I think if I had to vote for someone other than Clinton (who has my vote largely because I think she’s the smartest one running and because I think she’s the only one who knows what the executive branch looks like, from the inside, when it hasn’t usurped an unconstitutional degree of power) I’d go Edwards. There’s something about a trial lawyer of his ilk that makes me think a) this guy’s seen suffering (even if he hasn’t experienced it) and b) he understands at a level that many others don’t, exactly how the excesses of capitalism can harm individuals.

  7. i’m not a democrat but obama’s victory thrilled me, especially in light of the racist and islamophobic attacks coming from hillary’s campaign. like condi rice’s or vikram pandit ascension, it was a small but significant step for this great nation realizing its creed, as mlk would say.

    i look forward to the day when i won’t be so thrilled.

  9. Oh I cried last night! To seriously hope…that speech was great. I’m tearing up now. I do dare to hope that Obama can be our next president, and I think a partnership with either Rodham-Clinton or Edwards would do well.
    It IS time for change, no matter the slogan. Only this time, the change must stick. Our country is facing ruin without it.

  10. No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people.

    I am not nearly so confident that Huckbee would be slaughtered in a general election. Most people are low-information voters.

    Given a choice between a black politician and a souther preacher-turned-politician, I can predict that about 100% of the town I grew up in would vote for the preacher. About half of the town I now live in (the white half) would vote for the preacher, and some of the black half would too, because “hey, he’s a local boy.”

    I can totally see Huckabee winning, if the money-men don’t do him in.

  11. I’m with you on Obama. Have been from the beginning, really. Because of his background as much as anything else…let’s not forget that Hill was a corporate lawyer, and how progressive John Edwards wasn’t until he saw that he couldn’t win being a centrist. Obama was a civil rights lawyer, community organizer, and raised partly outside of the US by middle-class folks and a single mom. I trust him to stick with what he says.

    I feel the same way about Hillary as well. I hate hearing people’s knee-jerk Hillary-hate, but I just can’t get behind her.

    I fear Huckabee and Giuliani about equally. I fear Rudy on the foreign policy level and Huckabee on social issues. Romney’s a pushover, will go whichever the way the wind is blowing–he’s more the John Kerry image the GOP painted last time than John Kerry was. And McCain does seem like a principled guy–I just vehemently disagree with his principles on, say, my uterus. So, do I want the guy who’s so clearly a wacko to win so he’s easier to beat, or do I want the rational one just in case he wins? It’s a tough question.

    But right now I’m really, really, really happy. Not just because Obama won, but because of the huge turnout of young voters and first-time caucus-goers (and more than twice the amount of Democrats than Republicans in what’s generally assumed to be a red state). That more than anything is putting a smile on my face.

  12. I’m for Obama, then Clinton, because I’m of the opinion that while the individual sitting in the Oval Office is important, the fact is that their staff, cabinet, etc will be equally (if not more) important, and all of the Democratic candidates will be bringing essentially the same inside-the-beltway crowd.

    So I say go for the symbolism, and I argue that symbolism *IS* important. There’s a huge cynicism in the USA that says America will never elect a black person, or a woman, and I maintain that smashing that cynicism is tremendously important.

    Personally, I don’t like Clinton because I’m afraid that, like her husband was, she’ll turn out to be the best Republican president of the past 50 years. And we really could use an actual Democrat in office instead of yet another faux-Republican.

    And, honestly, Obama’s hope message is nice, but when I hear him talking about ending the partsinship, or working with the other side, or whatever, he’s saying “I’ll roll over and surrender just like Pelosi and Reid did” He’s either an idiot, or he hasn’t been sleeping through every Senate session since he was elected, or he’s crazy. Its self evident at this point, and frankly was self evident since the impeachment of Clinton, that the Republicans are playing politics as a bloodsport, that you can’t compromise with them because they define compromise to mean “utter, complete, and abject surrender to every single one of our whims”, and they can, and will, use the most vile, fearmongering, smears against any Democrat, including Democrats who give them everything they want.

    Which is why I’d like to support Edwards, at least he talks about fighting. But, he’ll be bringing the same nattering twits with him that either of the others will, and while he talks a good fight, he’s shown the same pathetic cowardice that seems to have infected all of our elected Democrats when it actually comes to fighting instead of just talking about it.

    Which is another reason to go for symbolism: its going to be all we get.

    Even if, by some miracle, we got a Democratic president with an actual spine, a Democratic president willing to bloody their knuckles and *FIGHT*, it wouldn’t much matter because Bush has made such a horrible mess the President is going to have to spend virtually every waking moment just fixing things that they won’t get a chance to improve anything, and if they ever tried the Republicans would filibuster any real progressive bill to death, aided and abetted by Harry “I like to surrender” Reid.

  13. I’m backing Obama, loved him since his speech at the convention in 04. His speech brought tears to my eyes last night. I’d be thrilled with Edwards too, and I’m lukewarm on Hillary. By the time our primary rolls around in March the nomination will probably be locked up, so I hope Obama continues to win.

    I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. They are all leaps and bounds better than anyone on the other side.

  14. I don’t, in general, vote–Since I live in NYC, my vote (which would usually go against the Democrats) has an exactly null effect on the final outcome of any national election. But if Huckabee wins the Republican nomination, I would register solely to vote against him–even if that meant casting a vote for Clinton or Obama. He combines all the worst elements of both parties into one idiotic package.

  15. I’m leaning towards Edwards; I think he’s paying more attention to the biggest issues facing the country in a more substantive way that any of the other Democrats. Obama would be my second choice, and Clinton third.

    As for the Republicans, I’d say McCain would be the best choice. Huckabee is the worst candidate, and I’m not as confident as Jill is that he’d lose.

  16. I like Obama since he seems the most genuinely anti-war, but as a 50-plus male, I wish he would stop blathering about how Social Security is “going broke.” It’s not true, and it just plays into the hands of the Republitards who think it’s a sin to tax anyone for anyone else’s direct benefit.

    On the other side, I can’t say that I “wish” this or that Republican would be nominated, since there’s a chance they might actually win. If we must have a Republican president, I think Romney would be the best one, since he’s smart, works well with others and is the least doctrinaire.

    Giuliani scares me the most, since he has Bush’s worst qualities: prizes loyalty above all else and cannot tolerate disagreement. Huckabee is almost as scary; does he actually think the ancestors of all of today’s species walked off Noah’s Ark?

  17. Halliburton stockholder and Bush-enabler Ralph Nader throwing his hat in the Edwards corner is pretty odd, and it’s probably best for Edwards that his campaign hasn’t made much mention of it.

    I’m originally from Raleigh and like Edwards a lot, but I think he’d work best as a potential policy-crafter than an actual presidential candidate. That way, we’d all have to address the actually *policy* as opposed to the ridiculous haircut-and-house issues that would nevertheless always get brought up if Edwards ran for the big chair again. The idea of someone like Edwards, as opposed to Paul Wolfowitz or Bill Kristol, having the president’s ear is something we can all get behind.

    Ultimately I’m going with Obama because I think that he’s the only candidate who can back the platitudes up with actions. Yeah, bipartanship and new unity and blah blah blah, but I think independent voters (heck, little-L libertarians, even) are all over this enough to leave the GOP behind. I fear HRC would slide right into the big-government-White-House-knows-best position of the departing Bush, and that we’d be going to the mat all over again in four years.

    So I’m voting for Ron Paul. Just kidding.

  18. I am not nearly so confident that Huckbee would be slaughtered in a general election. Most people are low-information voters.

    True, and that probably would have been enough to make Huckabee a viable candidate in 2000.

    But Mike is so so SO ignorant about foreign policy that I’m afraid he just doesn’t fly post-9/11. And there is that money thing.

  19. Although if a Republican were guaranteed to win the Presidency — and I don’t think they will, but Democrats are not exactly the most competent at winning elections — I’d want it to be Romney or McCain over all others.

    McCain….maybe…though he has caved too much to the religious right. Not too keen on Romney as he came across to me as an “empty suit” while I resided in Massachusetts and a few of my friends working for the state government are pissed at the way he and his friends have been excessively political in appointing agency and commission heads whose employment records were quite sketchy and/or they practically lack the professional/educational qualifications.

  20. Personally, I’m hoping that McCain and Huckabee tear the Republican party apart. I expect McCain to take New Hampshire, and for the rest of the Republican primary to be a bitter, vicious, fight between the two ending with McCain accepting the nomination from a broken party. Or at least I hope that’s what happens.

    The Republicans have been heading for a brakeup for some time now. The Money Republicans and the Church Republicans really don’t agree on much of anything, and the Church Republicans have a lot of resentment over their treatment these past few decades.

    Now, finally, the Church Republicans have one of their own as a real, workable, candidate for the Presidency, and the Money Republicans are united against him, and fighting him with the same venom, and vile invecitive that they have used against the Democrats.

    Of course the Huckabee voters won’t vote for the Democratic candidate in Novemeber, but if they don’t form a third party around Huckabee, they’ll just stay home because they will feel (rightly) that their party messed them over.

    If Huckabee actually succeeds in getting the Republican nomination, I have no clue what will happen. The Establishment won’t like it, but they’ll like any Democrat less. I’d guess they’ll fenagle a true Establishment drone into the VP slot, and insist on loading Huckabee’s prosepective cabinet with their own choices, and hope for the best.

    And, to be honest, I’m not at all sure that Huckabee would lose in the general election if he is the Republican candidate. He’s got a pseudo-populist streak that will really appeal to the people who have been so burned by Bush’s policies, and his religious nuttery is quite attractive to many segments of the population.

    Bitter Scribe re: Noah’s Ark. Yes, he does, and unfortunately so do around 50% of the people in the USA. Of the 50% who don’t believe believe in the Noah’s Ark viewpoint a great many don’t it as being particularly nutty. This is America, land of ignorance and fundamentalism.

  21. I’m an Iowan, and I started by caucusing for Richardson last night. Aside from maybe Kucinich, he has the best plan for Iraq. I believe his diplomatic experience and respect for international law can repair some of the damage from the Bush years; in particular, having the U.S. join the International Criminal Court, as he promises, would be wonderful. He has the most aggressive energy plan, and he responded well to my questions about living wage and regulating predatory lending.

    In my caucus, he received 54 of the 565 people on the first division. Since he didn’t get 15%, our group needed to find 31 more people, realign, or stay non-viable. Before the caucus, I had wavered between Edwards and Obama as a second choice. I can get excited about both, but I also have reservations about both. In the end, I chose Obama–not because of any general message or feeling but because of specific actions of both Obama and Edwards during the Iowa campaign.

    In the mayhem, I got separated from my wife, who also started with Richardson. A woman from Clinton’s camp cornered her and my daughter and said something like, “Think of what having a female president would mean for your daughter”. That swayed her. I told her later that having Clinton as president might mean our daughters would be carrying rifles somewhere in the Middle East.

    During the Iowa campaign I saw McCain, Clinton, Biden, and Dodd once each; Edwards twice; Richardson three times; and Obama four times. I also attended two meetings with Obama’s advisors and one with Edwards’s campaign manager. Everyone in the U.S. should have the opportunity I had as an Iowan.

  22. Hey folks, Edwards is the only one talking straight about corporate greed-heads and the only one not taking $$ from them, which may be why he’s running out of funds. And as far as who’s experienced what, he’s not from a rich family. He’s also the most left-leaning. That will get him my vote. I sure wanted things to be different the first time we had a woman seriously running for the White House but Hillary is a dissapointment. She’s smart enough but she’s got a spine of JellO.
    As for the ReThugs, the bigger the nutjob they have out front, the better.

  23. Obama is an empty suit as far as I’m concerned. Every single speech he blathers about “reaching across the aisle.” FUCK the republicans. They can come along or not, but I don’t give a hell’s damn about what they want and I don’t want a President who believes their opinion and agenda have merit.

  24. I’m an Edwards supporter, because he’s willing to come out and say that there actually is class in America. Anyone who even says that has my vote.

    Additionally, as a trial lawyer, he has experience taking on big corporations, not being owned by them.

    But I’m surprised how sick I felt last night when my partner crept into bed and told me that Hilary had placed third. If I believed it was GENUINELY about her centerism (which I despise), her inability to break with business as usual (which I despise), and her support of the war (which I despise so much that they’re gonna have to invent a new word for “despise”), I would be perfectly happy. But in my gut I just feel like it’s a third-place finish fueled by naked misogyny from the middle of America.

    I know that makes no sense from an Edwards supporter, but there it is.

  26. Edwards. He’s the only one speaking to the issues. Obama’s campaign of “hope” is feel good rhetoric, but I havent seen him back it up yet with solid plans – and his record of missing most votes in the Senate does not inspire confidence. I also don’t like his drift to the right.

    He’d probably be my third choice after Edwards, because I believe in him, and Clinton, who I’m not fond of but who I think is at least competent.

    If Huckabee is the nominee and either Clinton or Obama are the Democratic nominee, watch out. There’ll be a whack job in the White House in 2009. Huckabee talks folksy and populist, but he’s a damned Dominionist. But I don’t think Americans will look at that…there’s a large swath of anti-Clinton feeling out there, and I think a large number of people who will not vote for Obama based on race, experience, and name alone.

  27. Whatever I have to do to keep Comrade Klinton out of office…

    But I won’t vote for the RINO from NYC. That’s for sure!

  28. The Iowa caucus has returned victories for Obama and Huckabee. And I couldn’t be more thrilled — on both counts.

    Same here, although I differ on who would slaughter who in the general election. But whether either of them will make it to that is a very open question.

  29. let’s not forget … how progressive John Edwards wasn’t until he saw that he couldn’t win being a centrist.

    You know, I’m glad I’m not the only progressive on the internetz who noticed this. I’ve been wondering why his actions then haven’t spoken louder than his words now. That’s one reason I’ve never been able to fully get the devotion that people seem to have for him. He’s great, but he is a politician, not a savior. He would make as many infuriating missteps as president as anyone, I think.

    Obama is an empty suit as far as I’m concerned. Every single speech he blathers about “reaching across the aisle.” FUCK the republicans. They can come along or not, but I don’t give a hell’s damn about what they want and I don’t want a President who believes their opinion and agenda have merit.

    I don’t understand this. We want a Democratic candidate who alienates potential extra voters? Look at Reagan – he did a bang-up job of reaching voters not of his party, but that didn’t make him govern any more liberally. Bush sold himself as a moderate before tacking farther right than anyone ever imagined. Just because you reach out to other voters doesn’t mean you’re govern the way they want you to, and Obama’s voting record suggests that he would remain quite liberal, though not as progressive as I’m sure we all dream of. But every candidate would disappoint us in some ways, once elected. That’s the nature of the beast.

  30. prefer not to say:

    I’m not going to dismiss your suspicion of misogyny. After all, Iowa is one of the few states that has never elected a female governor, senator, or U.S. representative.

    Nevertheless, in trying to determine my second choice, I asked several people I respect and admire in the peace and justice community whom they were supporting, and Clinton came up only once, as someone’s second choice.

    Aside from the reasons you mention (centrism, business as usual, support for war), she also didn’t take questions in several events, and she answered combatively when pressed on her vote on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment. (She did apologize to the questioner though.) It’s almost as if she was playing not to lose.

    None of this rules out the possibility that people thought, “I’ll never vote for a woman”, but I offer it for what it’s worth.

  31. Obama is an empty suit as far as I’m concerned. Every single speech he blathers about “reaching across the aisle.” FUCK the republicans. They can come along or not, but I don’t give a hell’s damn about what they want and I don’t want a President who believes their opinion and agenda have merit.

    I’ve always taken that as regarding disenfranchised republican voters rather than actual republican politicians.

  32. Let’s dispose of these candidates quickly:
    Romney– Too Mormon. Do you want any one who is religiously related to the Osmond family as Your President? Don’t think so.

    Thompson: He’s no Ronald Reagan– as an actor OR as a President. Second tier as either. No energy; no philosophy; not much time left on this earth to make a difference any way.

    McCain– anyone who could come out with his Campaign Finance Bill (with that fool, Russ Feingold) acts like he was brain washed in VietNam by the North Vietnamese or the Communist Chinese. The man is Anti-American, plain and simple. Avoid like the plague.

    Paul— Would leave most social policy decisions to the States. Would probably have supported the South during the Civil War (not necessarily with regards to slavery, but with regards to State’s Rights as opposed to the overbearing Federal Government we have today). With him as President, there would be 50 United States, not the monolithic “United States” we’ve had since Abraham Lincoln– and this is a GOOD THING! He might not be as bad for women as you might think, BTW….

    Obama– Will never win, because he has Moslem ties and his name sounds too much like “Osama’. And is far too naive to recognize this, which is why he should NOT be elected President in 2008…. If he ever had enough guts to change his name and his attitude about Big Government, maybe….

    Clinton– Never liked Bill, detest Hillary. The least she could have done is DIVORCE THE SOB when the Monica Lewinsky affair came out (or have him castrated or forced to wear a male ‘chastity belt’ so that his d**k wouldn’t go where it’s not supposed to)…. They are a clear example of what is wrong with America in the 21st Century.

    Richardson– too much of a ‘Friend of Bill’ to be any much different than Hillary. I’m still trying to figure out how New Mexico elected him their Governor…. Despite his size, he seems like a political ‘lightweight’ who couldn’t handle the job of P O T U S….

    Edwards– anyone who would run with Al Gore can’t be any good. Another naive fool. Reminds me of John Lindsay, who was Mayor of NYC in the late 1960s. All he had was looks– Lindsay’s plans were naive and foolish, and led to the Fiscal Crisis of 1975 when NYC faced bankruptcy (and should have been allowed to go literally bankrupt). And this comes from a New Yorker, BTW. Edwards is this generation’s Lindsay— avoid at once!

    Huckabee– Probably my second choice (although he maybe a bit soft on certain issues, like crime and punishment, for my taste).

    If I’ve missed anyone in this list, I’m sorry– but they’re probably irrelevant and heaven forbid any of them become President (never mind most of these jokes mentioned above, who are masquerading as Presdiental hopefuls, ACTUALLY becoming President)….

  34. I stood with Edwards at last night’s caucus, although I was prepared to move to Obama if it looked close between him and Hillary. One thing I noticed about the Obama people was that they were genuinely excited about their candidate. People were standing up, waving their babies around and screaming every time someone said the name “Obama.” My precinct is pretty working-class, and the people I saw screaming and cheering are not the type I would have expected to get excited about a politician.

  36. [Ron Paul] He might not be as bad for women as you might think, BTW….

    Oh, well that’s a comfort.

  37. Like Jill, I was not excited about any Democratic candidate but liked Obama best, just because it seems possible he won’t be the next Clinton (as Clinton definitely will, and Edwards likely will).

    I would LOVE the final election to be Obama vs. Huckabee, mostly because it would help resolve what the truth is about the United States. If it comes to an election between Optimistic Black Man and Crazy, what will the citizens do? If they pick Optimistic Black Man, there is hope. If they pick Crazy — and they’ll ONLY pick Crazy if it really is the case that they can’t stomach Black Man — there’s no hope at all.

    I have a feeling the Republicans won’t let Crazy go all the way, though.

  38. Whatever I have to do to keep Comrade Klinton out of office…

    News flash, Marksman: The Cold War ended 15 years ago.

  39. I’ve been backing Obama for a while now, and even qualified to run as an Obama delegate to the DNC. (Vote for me if you’re from the Alabama 6th, y’all!)

    I think Obama represents the biggest break from the atrocious way Washington has been operated over the last seven years. Hillary is a strong leader and incredibly competent, but somehow I don’t see her changing that culture all that much, just turning it to her advantage instead of the Republicans’. (Not that I blame her; after all the shit she’s been subjected to from them for the past 15 years, I’d be looking to settle some scores too.) Edwards has a lot of policies I agree with, but I’m just not convinced that he has the werewithal to force the dramatic changes necessary.

    Obama, to me, represents the antidote to the poison that’s spread throughout DC. And as much as some Republicans say he’s an inexperienced lightweight, I think they’re terrified of running against him. Hillary would give them the chance to run the Mother Of All Dirty Campaigns they’ve been ginning up ever since she became a senator, but Obama’s a hard guy to hate. He represents a 180-degree turn from the Rovian smear-politics that even some Republicans are getting really weary of, and he’s a guy that actually inspires something other than “Well, at least he’s not Bush” — something the GOP hasn’t had to go up against for a while now.

    Come join us in the Obama camp, Jill . . . I can’t speak for the entire country, but here in Birmingham, at least, we easily throw the best parties.

  40. Whatever I have to do to keep Comrade Klinton out of office…

    But I won’t vote for the RINO from NYC. That’s for sure!

    Yeah, other than violating Godwin’s Law, I agree that Guiliani and Clinton are two sides of the same coin. Even Ron Paul got more votes than Guiliani in Iowa, but Iowa belonged to Huckabee because of the fundis. He’ll be our next president. =/

  41. I have a feeling the Republicans won’t let Crazy go all the way, though.

    Well, we’re doing what we can, but we’ll see. There could be a big realignment party-wise after this election.

  42. Sorry, Doug, if Edwards is still in, he’ll get my primary vote. But we’ll have to see how it goes…

    :::waves at you from Southside:::

  43. I definitely hope Obama gets the Democratic nod. He has about as much experience as Bill had when he made a run at the presidency, so I’m not worried on that account, and he represents a clean break from the vitriol of the last 10 years of partisan warfare in DC.

    On the Republican side, I think McCain would be the best nominee; he has some principles at least.

  44. Oh yeah, and I second the notion that Guiliani is a scary SOB. He’s been described in various places as a “small man in search of a balcony” which I think is very apt. I imagine he’s drooling at the prospect of inheriting Bush’s unfettered executive branch. Imagine all that power in the hands of a man with a demonstrated history of being a grasping authoritarian. What a lovely thought.

  45. I have been supporting Obama since I saw his speech in the 2004 DNC. I was all “THAT MAN NEEDS TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT!!!” Then, a few months ago he came to Atlanta, and I got to see him in person. I was in love. I’m full Obama, all the way.

    Though, I also have a bit of that feminist guilt over not supporting Hillary. But.. well, I don’t agree with her! And I think it’s pointless to be all hard core feminist if I support someone JUST cause she’s a woman.

    If she wins the Primary, I will support her, cause all the Republicans scare the shit out of me. But I’m really excited about Obama.

    I don’t get the Edwards love, personally. I feel like I’m missing something…

  46. Shawn,

    Points for snark, but c’mon, have you not heard that Ron Paul is a full-on racist? He’s said black men in DC are 85%-95% jailbirds, for one thing. And since Al Gore is almost as green as Kermit the Frog, considering that he’s a former VP and Nobelist and not a bearded hippie-type, he is the environmental hero for the Capitol Hill types and he deserves props.

    I still say John Edwards is the farthest to the left, which is OK by me in America.

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  48. I doubt your missing anything, meggygurl, none of the top three are perfect on the liberal/feminist/religious freedom/economic issues that are important to me. And I don’t begrudge anyone their Obama like. I’ve just weighed out as much as I could and rank them Edwards, Obama, Clinton. But it’s a very close call. YMMV

  49. Let’s dispose of these candidates quickly:
    Romney– Too Mormon. Do you want any one who is religiously related to the Osmond family as Your President? Don’t think so.

    Thompson: He’s no Ronald Reagan– as an actor OR as a President. Second tier as either. No energy; no philosophy; not much time left on this earth to make a difference any way.

    McCain– anyone who could come out with his Campaign Finance Bill (with that fool, Russ Feingold) acts like he was brain washed in VietNam by the North Vietnamese or the Communist Chinese. The man is Anti-American, plain and simple. Avoid like the plague.

    Paul— Would leave most social policy decisions to the States. Would probably have supported the South during the Civil War (not necessarily with regards to slavery, but with regards to State’s Rights as opposed to the overbearing Federal Government we have today). With him as President, there would be 50 United States, not the monolithic “United States” we’ve had since Abraham Lincoln– and this is a GOOD THING! He might not be as bad for women as you might think, BTW….

    Obama– Will never win, because he has Moslem ties and his name sounds too much like “Osama’. And is far too naive to recognize this, which is why he should NOT be elected President in 2008…. If he ever had enough guts to change his name and his attitude about Big Government, maybe….

    Clinton– Never liked Bill, detest Hillary. The least she could have done is DIVORCE THE SOB when the Monica Lewinsky affair came out (or have him castrated or forced to wear a male ‘chastity belt’ so that his d**k wouldn’t go where it’s not supposed to)…. They are a clear example of what is wrong with America in the 21st Century.

    Richardson– too much of a ‘Friend of Bill’ to be any much different than Hillary. I’m still trying to figure out how New Mexico elected him their Governor…. Despite his size, he seems like a political ‘lightweight’ who couldn’t handle the job of P O T U S….

    Edwards– anyone who would run with Al Gore can’t be any good. Another naive fool. Reminds me of John Lindsay, who was Mayor of NYC in the late 1960s. All he had was looks– Lindsay’s plans were naive and foolish, and led to the Fiscal Crisis of 1975 when NYC faced bankruptcy (and should have been allowed to go literally bankrupt). And this comes from a New Yorker, BTW. Edwards is this generation’s Lindsay— avoid at once!

    Huckabee– Probably my second choice (although he maybe a bit soft on certain issues, like crime and punishment, for my taste).

    If I’ve missed anyone in this list, I’m sorry– but they’re probably irrelevant and heaven forbid any of them become President (never mind most of these jokes mentioned above, who are masquerading as Presdiental hopefuls, ACTUALLY becoming President)….

    Romney – Empty suit who didn’t really do much as governor when I was living in Massachusetts and did a lot to promote under/unqualified people to head state agencies/departments due to political considerations.

    Thompson – His political campaign reminds me of Bush Senior’s in 1992…..not doing enough and the campaign seems almost non-existent. Seems like his status as politician and actor has not served him well.

    McCain – The only GOP candidate I can actually respect to some extent…though he caved too much to Bush and the religious right.

    Paul – Wants to return us to the world of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle” by advocating eliminating government agencies critical to public welfare such as the FDA, invasive of civil liberties by opposing abortion rights, accepts endorsements/money from White Supremicists, and has now been publicly exposed as a racist.

    Huckabee – Folksy populist-sounding religious nut who could do much to aid those who advocate teaching creationism alongside or even in lieu of evolution setting US education/science/technology back at least a century and further making the US a laughing stock on the international stage. Hurrah for Dark Ages Part Deux…

    Kucinich – Excessive idealist who has problems explaining how he plans to convert those ideals into concrete public policies….and implement them effectively. He could, however, be more effective in the House/Senate as a gadfly to force whoever is President and the Washington political establishment to give some airtime to ideals/potential policies deemed “too radical”.

    Richardson – One critical player in the mishandling of the Wen Ho Lee case and the Los Alamos fiasco…should not be considered for the oval office.

    Obama – Charismatic and has good ideas….but betrays lack of savvy by a series of missteps…including allowing an anti-GBLT singer to “tour” with him. If he stops trying to pander to those who aren’t likely to vote for a candidate with his political profile, he can be considered with some reservations.

    Edwards – Overly charismatic to the point of being too slick and showmanlike….though he has made many good points….and someone to be considered.

    Clinton – Made a serious mistake by voting for the Patriot Act…..though her intelligence, good work as New York Senator along with Schumer, and her unflappable character in the campaign makes her someone worthy of serious consideration.

  50. I’m hoping Obama or Edwards wins (or both with one as the vice prez).
    And if Obama is vice president, he can run again and then have 4-8 years of experience in the White House–since quite a few people I know don’t think he has enough experience right now.

  51. I’ve been an Edwards supporter for years, and actually really liked Hillary Clinton until she became so conservative/moderate. But i’ve changed to Obama because i believe he is the most likely to achieve the most important thing we have to do in this country: Stop the Hate.
    To those who say “who cares about the Republicans, fuck them!” I say they matter, even if they lose the election. People like Tancredo and Lou Dobbs have whipped up anti-immigrant anti-Hispanic fervor all over America. Even if it costs them the election, the hate they’ve created in people’s hearts will remain. (as will the hatred of gays and Muslims that have been so furiously fanned in recent years.) So we need someone who can speak to these Americans and try to change their hearts and minds.
    Of course the virulent racists & misogynists won’t change, but plenty of otherwise sane people have bought into this hateful BS, and they can be reached. Things are too messed up to just win the election, we need to stop the hate.

    so for me, Obama is the best Dem. And while most of their positions disgust me, i think even McCain and Huckabee would be a change from the usual GOP hate-mongering. They may have typical 13th century right-wing attitudes about some issues and people dear to our heart, but they’re not crusading on it as so many other reThugs do, like Guiliani and Romney.

  52. I’m supporting Hillary, because I grew up during a time when girls couldn’t play sports, when help wanted ads in the classified section were listed as “male” and “female” (and guess which side offered the most opportunity and highest salary). Abortion was illegal, which meant that some of my friends had to drive from Indiana to NYC in order to have a one. And it was a time when women earned something like 65 cents on the dollar.

    We have never passed an Equal Rights Amendment, which means that women do not have full equality in this country. Until we place more women in leadership, I don’t think it will happen. We will continue to be second-class citizens … even though women have consistently voted in greater numbers than men over the past few elections.

    The men running on the Democratic side are fine people … but they are not women. As Gov. Jennifer Granholm once said: “Young girls cannot be, what they cannot see.”

    I want to see a woman in the White House in my lifetime, and I think Hillary Clinton is qualified to be that person.

    BAC

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