A Tale of Two B’s: Bitchiness & Bullying

25 thoughts on A Tale of Two B’s: Bitchiness & Bullying

1. I don’t see bullying as synonymous with being bitchy. A bully is mean for the sake of being mean – they want t dominate you by intimidation. Someone who is bitchy is more along the lines of someone who is unprofessional and rude rather than mean. At least that’s where the line is drawn in my mind.

   I’ve been the receiver of both kinds of behavior. There’s a good PSA on TV here where you see this kid behaving as a bully but is alone in a room and the message is that a bully looks like a fool when they don’t have an audience, so walk away.

2. “What are the main reasons that would stop someone from making a complaint?”

   There may not really be a few main reasons–it may depend on and vary wildly by the type of bullying, the social dynamics involved, the type of job, or the response of management to other personnel problems. It can also be difficult to really put a name to a lot of workplace bullying; everyone in an office can know someone’s a jerk and consider their behavior unprofessional, but it doesn’t really occur to them that something can be done without a clear-cut terminable offense or that the office environment shouldn’t be insufferable.

3. Heh. A lot of times, the workplace bully is the boss.

4. “What are the main reasons that would stop someone from making a complaint?”

   As someone who has complained about co-workers’ highly inappropriate behavior, no, it’s not the betrayal. It’s the fact that it’s unlikely to be taken seriously, and yet you are likely to face a negative reaction from everyone. They see you as a betrayer, and that makes the working situation very un-fun and quite often worse than before.

5. In my case, when I was being bullied at work by a female boss, I took my complaint to HR and was told that 1. that person was just that way and she wasn’t going to change and 2. if I couldn’t handle it, I should “seek other opportunities”.

   I moved into another department where she never sets foot and feel much, much better. It’s unfortunate that I had to be the one to move, but people at the executive level are very difficult to fire.

6. I work for a bully (well, not for much longer, since I just got laid off). But I think the main difference between bullying and bitchiness is that bullies have people on their side because people are afraid of them, and bitchy people have people on their side because while people might be afraid of being their targets, bitchy people can be highly entertaining and can get away with the kind of behavior their followers wish they could indulge in.

   In my current situation, there are three partners, one of whom is a bully. He’s indulged for a couple of reasons; first and foremost, neither of the other partners will do anything about the bullying; indeed, the other named partner, when I finally snapped and said I couldn’t take the bullying anymore, suggested I tell the bully off on my way out the door. Which, whoa. Dude, maybe if you could do that on occasion — you, who are on equal footing with the bully and can’t be fired — you might not have such a revolving door for associates.

   Secondly, he brings in business, much more than either of the other partners. I’ve found that in law firms, some of the most unpleasant people are cosseted because they make money.

7. I think people also often mix up bullying, bitchy snark, and actual honesty. There’s a strong contingent of “brutal honesty” advocates, who frequently also seem to be “anti-PC”, who seem to mistake “rip someone apt” with “be honest”.

8. Well, “I’m brutally honest” does sound better than “I verbally and emotionally abuse people whenever presented with an opportunity and consider this one of my better features.” Shorter, too.

9. As both zuzu and elgoose said, oftentimes the bully is the boss, so there’s really no one to complain to. I ended up quitting my previous job because the executive VP was a bully and I just couldn’t take him anymore.

   Every once in a great while there’s karmic payback — he ended up being fired a few months after I left, in part because he had four employees quit within one year — but usually the bully gets enabled and coddled for years. I wish I knew why.

10. Oh, and I was wondering why I find Gordon Ramsay entertaining even though I’m uncomfortable with bullying: you’re right, he’s bitchy more than anything else. Plus, of course, there’s the fact that he usually only really loses it with management. I’ve never seen him have a meltdown (on “Kitchen Nightmares,” anyway) with the waitstaff. They only show him yelling at the owners, managers and head chefs, rarely the sous-chefs and never the waiters/waitresses. In other words, he only picks on people his own size. 😉

11. Zuzu, this seems to be the case w/ bullying bosses. As long as their behavior isn’t running their department into the ground, upper levels of management seem willing to ignore pretty much anything that wouldn’t involve lawsuits or criminal charges.

12. Bullying is certainly a wholly different creature than bitchiness. Female bullies might be branded a “bitch”, but that word can just as easily (& much more likely to) be thrown about but some freshly-rejected Lothario who’s sour-graping some woman who’s just turned down his advances. I have an ex who’s favorite methiod of dealing w/ idiots/assholes was to give them what I dubbed her “Ice Queen Death-Ray Glare” (it was really unsettling to be on the receiving end of it. It always, w/o fail, made the recipient fall back two or three steps. She could intimidate a nest of rattlesnakes w/ That Look.) & it was usually followed w/ some crushing verbal put-down re: the recipients’s behavior/attitude. As we’d be walking away she smile & laugh to herself & say “God, I’m such a Bitch” & I’d smile back & say: “Mmmm, yeah. Don’t ever change, Big Red.”

13. Zuzu, this seems to be the case w/ bullying bosses. As long as their behavior isn’t running their department into the ground, upper levels of management seem willing to ignore pretty much anything that wouldn’t involve lawsuits or criminal charges.

    True. I know of two instances where bully bosses were ignored until there was an incident of shoving. THEN someone did something. In one case, it’s referred to in the firm as “The Million-Dollar Shove,” because when the counsel shoved an associate in court, right in front of the judge and all the opposing counsel, it cost him his chances at partnership.

14. I’ve lost track of what bitchy means, since to me it tends to conjure up images of a happy female golden retriever crossbreed attempting to snuggle everyone in sight.

    I think people who don’t stand up to bullies do so for some mix of two reasons:

    1. They think they’ll face the negative consequences, not the bully.

    2. They can’t come up with any strategies not like to result in #1.

    Sharing as many stories and strategies as possible on standing up to workplace bullies successfully tends to help with both of these.

15. I know that when I catch myself thinking “What the hell do I say to that?” that the line has been crossed & we are firmly in Inappropriate, Unprofessional Behavior territory & it time to break out the retorical ammunition and commence firing.

    Bullies, like so many other predators, are very adept at sniffing out the weak links in the heard. They like to zero in on a target that has next to no means of defending themselves & like it even more if the target of their harassment is a social misfit who can’t/won’t conform to regular social standards & are unlikely to have a support network to come to their aid, either in their peer group or from authority figures. I’m writing this with schools in mind but it can apply just as easily to the adults in workplace situations.

16. Bitchiness is not a seperate category, it is bullying in its own right. I have experienced bullying from both genders, and they have vastly different aproaches. Males will try brute force or humiliation. Girls are more subtle. It is more about exclusion and backhanded compliments.
    The way to stop bullying is for people to stand up for one another. When the victems realize what is going on and confront the bully and point out his/her behaviour to others it typically stops.

17. Since ‘bitch’ and ‘bitchiness’ have been bantied about and abused so much, I think its important to clarify what they mean.

    When I think of ‘bitch’ I think of complaining, “You bitch too much about that, why don’t you just do something about it?” Its a passive behavior engaged in by someone who is powerless or sees themselves as powerless to change the situation/resolve problem.

    On the other hand, I see “bitchiness” as meaning someone who engages in overly aggressive and intimidating behavior to get their way. It is passive aggressive in that often, the person on the receiving end of the bitchiness really never gets to know the source of the original irritation or problem and thus has nothing to address, but constant berating, criticism or backhanded politics.

    Conversely, a bully is direct and in-your-face, often using intimidation mixed with physical posturing and direct kill/fire power plays. Or they may use tactics that are on the face direct and aggressive, but when looked at closer, are more passive aggressive in that the behavior leaves the recipient thinking, “That wasn’t funny, that really hurt/embarrassed me.”

    With a passive aggressive bully, the behavior leaves one thinking, “Wow, what the hell just hit me.” while the rest of the room is laughing like hell at the joke.

    I know this as I’ve been a victim of all behaviors, wrapped up in one women who intimidated, harassed and bullied me and always with an audience. She did it because she was angry that I was promoted over her and wanted to show everyone else that she still held the keys to the department, so to speak.

    I was young and fell into her hands by responding in ways that well, weren’t too dignified (crying alone, sulking, withdrawing, endlessly complaining about her). My responses were seen by others as weak and thus they were reluctant to get on my team. This only increased my anger and resentment, which in the end caused me to leave the job entirely.

    I’ve moved on and grown, but take her behavior and the way other people in the department reacted to it, as a lesson in human behavior and at least how NOT to react when a victim of a power struggle.

18. OH and — disarming bullies by redirecting their anger away from you and staying calm (not responding in the way they want) often works. Don’t show fear to a tantrum thrower for one, as they suck power from other’s fear.

    Passive aggressive people are horrid. The worst will try to disarm you with vicious rumors and lies. The best defense with them I’ve found, is a good offense; the power of their activity lies in the ability to retain secrecy. If you open up their two-faced behavior in front of everyone, usually they will think twice before doing it again, knowing you have exposed them for what they are.

    But I also have to admit that I don’t work in an office anymore as I find such politics a waste of precious brain-space. But, I do end up dealing with a lot of the same behaviors with clients, thank god though, I get to be done with them when the job is done — most of the time.

19. I’m being bullied right now, but she’s stupid and does most of her bullshit 1) around other people 2) in ways that can (and have) been documented and 3) I call it out to her superiors and mine every chance I get when it’s directed at me, but carefully so I don’t come off as “insecure” or “not being a team player”. She even apologized via email for something she’d done, and while the deed seemed inocuous to the other “team players” it was bullshit. Of course I saved it.

    It’s only been going on for about 3 or so months with me, but she’s been an asshole to a dozen people for 6 years, and it’s been allowed. “oh she’s just that way”. Fuck That.

    It’s taking extra time to document everything, and she won’t stop being a bullying asshole when she gets punted out – but I have the luxury of working for a corporate giant (****ford) so with luck and determination it won’t go on anymore.

20. Here is my take on bitchiness vs. bullying:

    Bitchiness is more like a behavioral tic. Bitchy people may be bitchy in several situations and with many different people depending, perhaps, on their mood or in reaction to whatever stimuli set them off. Bitchiness is often not subtle, bitchy people like to broadcast to the whole world how damn angry/annoyed/frustrated they are. Passive aggressives are in another category — their bitchiness is present but obviously not as apparent.

    Bullying is more like a campaign which employs strategies (e.g. bitchiness) with a defined goal. Bullies seek to humiliate and degrade a specific target. Bullying is often done in secret with only the target within earshot of any withering comment or other foul behavior. Bullies can be charming and appear “nice” to other people, which makes it easier to isolate the target. They may seek to publicly humiliate the target, but with an eye towards subtlety and I’m-only-kidding type humor.

    Bullies are massive cowards, though. They will back down quickly if you do not appear intimidated by them. I’ve dealt with them my whole life until I grew a backbone. I was always taught to turn the other cheek and ignore nasty behavior. Total bullshit. Ignoring bullying just marks you as weak and makes you more likely to become a target. It’s best to spot a bully first before they get their hooks into you. They begin “testing” a potential target and if you do not react with fear and instead put them in their place, they will likely leave you alone. It works every time!

    This is a decent website about workplace bullying and how to spot bullies and deal with them: http://www.kickbully.com/

21. Actually, most strong women are not bitchy.

    Many strong men are not a$$holes.

    The ones that conform to the stereotypes are frauds —

22. I had a bulling boss. She was so awful that everyone in my department finally went into the office of her boss and basically all threatened to quit. They even pointed out that she was worse on me then anyone, going out of her way to make my life miserable. She ended up being transfered and having to go to management classes. Eventually she was transfered back but luckily left for a new job. The funny thing was she was always bitching about how there was no women in management and the company was so sexist etc etc. I kept wanting to scream “maybe it’s because you SUCK not because you’re female” at her. BTW my horrible crime was being female and happily married, while she had two kids and was raising them on her own. Basically my life was “easy.”

23. What are the main reasons that would stop someone from making a complaint? Is it seen as a ”betrayal” or are you deemed a ‘’snitch”?

    More of a “wuss,” or a “whiner,” I think.

    If I’m unhappy with the way my boss treats me, there are two general options: Either I’m too sensitive (wuss, whiny) or she’s too aggressive (bully.) Or both 😉 but I won’t talk about that now.

    MOST people gripe about their boss, and most bosses get griped about. So the general dynamic in people’s minds is “workers complain whether or not it’s serious.” I think that does a lot to attack the validity of complaints.

    There’s also the “interaction” aspect. People who can “deal” with their own interactions, ans solve their own problems, get more respect than those who don’t. Again, this may be a very unrealistic request if the aggressor is beyond the bounds of reasonable behavior. But as with the one above, it’s a bit of a catch-22: it may be that the aggrieved person is being subjected to completely inappropriate treatment, but they are still a person who can’t/didn’t “solve the problem on their own.”

    In the work world, those are two hard labels to shake off.

    I will say that the successful complaints I have seen are those that are factual and not conclusive.

    Conclusive statements are bad, because at the onset, the average complainer is seen as relatively untrustworthy. Acknowledge it and deal with it by avoiding statements like these:

    I’m being bullied by my boss
    I’m being mistreated by my boss
    The boss is being inappropriate
    The boss is harassing me

    Those may seem like facts to you, but they’re not. they are conclusions–and you want the person to whom you are speaking to adopt those conclusions on their own, based on facts… which you must supply. So instead of stating conclusions, state facts:

    On Wednesday afternoon, my boss pushed me by the chest, trapping me against the wall, and held me there with a fist while demanding my attention.

    This past Thursday, my boss approached me from behind and rubbed his genitals against my rear. I immediately turned around and said “stop that!” to which he replied “you know you like it, and you don’t have to pay for it this time.” The two adjacent cubicle employees saw and heard the exchgange, as evidenced by their laughter.

    and so on.

    Facts get results, because it is much more difficult to argue with facts. And AFTER they have bought in to your version of the facts, THEN it becomes much easier to get them to buy in to your versio of the conclusions. OTOH, if they reject your conclusion initially, good luck getting them to take your facts seriously.

    Just a tip.

24. Rereading my post, I need to clarify something that i don’t think was clear enough:

    I do not think bullying is acceptable, and I do not think that complaining is whiny, or wussy, or whatever.

    Nor do I think that it is a “failure” on the part of the accuser if they don’t state their case in the best possible way. It’s obviously not their fault they’ve been bullied, of course.

    I was merely trying to address the “why do we think this?” question, and provide some solutions. DO with them what you will.

25. I’m the only woman in my company at my level. Sometimes, it makes me the target of other women who are lower down in rank and won’t dare complain about their demanding male bosses, or women higher up who see me as a threat (and also some men). I had a secretary and someone in upper management essentially collude together to undermine my relationships with my staff by constantly putting me down behind my back (very inappropriate -especially for the person in upper management). The two of them were a combination of insecure, jealous and engaging in intense projection (the upper management one is feared and hated widely but had the nerve to accuse me of having an off with her head managment style). To fix it, I interviewed my staff about how we could improve our relationship, said I was open to criticism and ideas, and was told they loved working for me and totally disagreed with the lies and rumors, which they then routinely reported to me. Then, the staff and I agreed that we would not allow anyone to finish a derogatory sentence about the other – the person being disparaged had to be called in and allowed to defend themselves. Finally, I wrote a 5 page memo to upper managment with specific examples of the behavior. My boss presented it to his boss over dinner – no wide dissimination of the memo. I set out 5 conditions for my relationships with others in the company in the future which amounted to don’t undermine my relationships with staff or I’ll call you out. All of it was presented as a business prolem (we’re losing productivity with all this stupidity). Eventually, the secretary left. The senior woman does not mess with me any more. Still, it was very upsetting and hair raising. I was made to feel no one liked working with me, and I needed tons of fuzzy assurance from my staff that this was far from the case. So I got what I wanted, but with my boss’s boss, there was still a whif of, oh these girls just pull hair sometimes. Yeah – he’d never had this done to him, so he could not relate. Go to bullybusters dot com for suggested strategies. I like ‘pink coding’. In the end, all my good karma with my co-workers and direct reports saved me from being tagged as the queen of hearts. Plus I gave staff members assertiveness books so they would have strategies for dealing with this kind of thing themselves. So far – working.

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