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Income Anxiety

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When you let women compete with men, balls suffer.

Apparently young urban women are having a hard time dating dudes who aren’t freaked out by their earning power — and according to the New York Times Styles section, the women themselves are unnerved by their own financial situation. See what happens when you let broads get all educated and gainfully employed?*

The article is obnoxious for all of the obvious reasons, but I found parts of it to be really interesting. While the whole “women are too powerful and can’t handle it and don’t want emasculated men” thing gets old, I think it is fair to say that while feminism has been somewhat successful in expanding the scope of acceptable forms of female-ness, it hasn’t been quite as successful in expanding masculinities. “Manliness” is a lot of different things in a lot of different contexts, but for the most part it boils down to the ability to provide. The man-as-provider model cuts across a whole lot of different masculine incarnations, and when women challenge that, men often feel that their identity is being infringed upon. Women are also often raised to want a mate who will take care of them and provide security, and finances are a big part of that. I think Stephanie Coontz nails it:

A lot of young women “are of two minds,” said Stephanie Coontz, director of research at the Council on Contemporary Families, a research organization. “On one hand, they’re proud of their achievements, and they think they want a man who shares house chores and child care. But on the other hand they’re scared by their own achievement, and they’re a little nervous having a man who won’t be the main breadwinner. These are old tapes running in their head: ‘This is how you get a man.’ ”

Women are used to getting smacked down for our achievements. We’re brought up watching Disney movies and understanding that for us, beauty comes first, and while we should find a man who actually likes us as human beings, we should be a little careful about outshining him. We simply aren’t raised to feel as entitled to professional success the way that a lot of men are. Women notoriously don’t brag or even talk about professional achievements the way that men do — after all, as a general rule, men talking about their own lives are important, whereas women talking about their own lives are narcissistic or gossipy (or vagina dentata intellectualis). There’s a lot of baggage that comes along with being a successful woman, and especially with out-earning your partner. There’s a lot of baggage that comes along with being a man in a low-paying job, and especially with making less than your partner.

Articles like this can do their part to fuel that anxiety, especially when done poorly. But they can also serve as spaces for women and men to feel less shallow and less alone in finding partnership problematic. This one, unfortunately, doesn’t do a great job. It focuses on women’s anxieties as if we’re the problem, as opposed to a culture that fetishizes male earning power and princess fantasies, and dudes who are thoroughly unnerved by the fact that their female partners may be on equal (or higher) financial footing. Economic power has long meant social power, and when it comes to relationships, economic power has given men a disproportionate degree of power and control over women. Economic power has served as a male mating call, and the accoutrements of the big house and the nice car and the fancy dinner dates and the other outward displays of wealth are the human male’s peacock plumes.

Of course challenging that is threatening. What’s a guy to do when a chick has more to display than he does?

What bothers me most about the article is the incessant focus on women’s anxieties, when, if women are anxious, it’s as a direct response to male anxiety. Men panicking about their girlfriends paying for dinner are normal. Women who panic about their partners panicking are neurotic, narcissistic nutcases. There’s no real evaluation of the complicated social rules that lead to these situations. There’s no evaluation of the fact that this is a deep-seated and wide-spread cultural issue, and that it transcends the earning power issue — it gets to the very heart of how we define “male” and “female” in our society.

In other words: Patriarchy hurts men, too.

Maybe I just don’t really get it because I’ve never dated anyone who was independently wealthy, and I’ve never been independently wealthy myself, so it never really mattered. If I eat it, I assume I’ll pay for it.** On the other hand, this past summer I was making a decent amount of money — and while I wasn’t dating anyone, when I’d go out with friends who were in tighter economic situations, I’d try to pick up more of the bill. If I wanted to go out to a pricey dinner with my room mate when I was well aware that it was out of her budget (and, if not for the cushy summer job, would have been out of my budget too), I’d get the check. Fair’s fair. I don’t see why dating should be so much different.

Unless, of course, you see dating as a ritual wherein the male of the species makes a series of financial investments in order to gain access to the reproductive organs of the female, and the female acquiesces only after the male has proven that he can support her financially. In some cultures, a wedding ring is another requisite investment. If that’s your situation then, yeah, all this female-earning-power stuff kind of throws a wrench in things.

My paying-for-dinner (and most other stuff) rule: If it’s a first date, the person who does the asking pays. If you’re in a relationship, you split things along income lines — so if you both make roughly the same amount of money, it’s 50/50, or you just alternate paying for meals. If one of you is a starving artist or a student and the other is a big-time lawyer or an investment banker, the party with the greater economic clout pays a larger share. No genitalia involved.

But then, I’m a well-known emasculating vagina-dentata intellectualis bitch.

Thanks to Fauzia for the link.

*Warning: Total heteronormativity alert.
**So tempted to make a “your mom” joke here, but I’ll be a lady and stop myself.


29 thoughts on Income Anxiety

  1. This is a disgusting and counter-productive attitude which will only continue to contribute to the patriarchal stranglehold on society.

    And by that I mean that if someone wants to buy me dinner, I’m game.

  2. I once heard a talk by Jean Kilbourne, and she mentioned, in her analysis of advertising that while women tended to be portrayed as sex objects, men were “success” objects. Their (men’s) worth was measured by how much they earned, and Kilbourne certainly didn’t think that was a healthy thing.

  3. I think it is fair to say that while feminism has been somewhat successful in expanding the scope of acceptable forms of female-ness, it hasn’t been quite as successful in expanding masculinities.

    Word. Which is why I tend to veer to gender studies, b/c “masculinity” as a category is as interesting and, in some ways, even more constrained than femininity.

    I’m a big fan of paying for my own meals, but if someone offers? I’m a grad student. You think I’m going to refuse? (Of course, I always offer to pay for myself, and I mean it when I offer, and if they take me up on it, I’m delighted. Well. Happy, anyway, and prepared to pay my own damn way, thank you.)

  4. From my limited observations, there may be some confluence of gender and class assumptions when examining men from the working/low-middle class. From listening to many working class male classmates in college, one of the biggest fears is confronting the perceived inevitable snobbery from interacting with those from a higher socio-economic bracket. While making such assumptions without finding out the actual characteristic traits of the individual is prejudicial, such assumptions are made not only because of such prejudice, but also as a means to protect themselves from more “snobbing” from those on the higher branch of the socio-economic ladder. This is understandable when working-class and lower-middle class people are subjected to “snobbing” from those in higher socio-economic levels who perceive themselves to be superior. When combined with gender assumptions about masculinity, it can be quite paralyzing for those who have difficulties overcoming them. Though I am aware of working class women face similar and greater challenges, I do not feel comfortable in my knowledge to speak about them in the context of dating.

    From my own dating experiences, most women I dated from a higher socio-economic stratum were personable and friendly people. Unfortunately, there were a few experiences where assholes who happen to be women used their “superiority” derived from their higher socio-economic class and “superior education” as a means to put me down during the course of the date. I don’t know about other men, but I interpreted this experience as a good warning sign that this individual is not someone I want any sort of relationship with, not an indictment on all women or all women from a higher socio-economic class. Unfortunately, it is too easy to conflate one asshole who happens to be part of a given race, class, and gender and use that as an indictment of the whole.

    As an aside, this reminds me of one common behavior I often observe within among those in the upper/upper-middle class Chinese friends and extended family. Whenever there is a group dinner or date, everyone fights for the “honor” of paying the bill for everyone else regardless of gender. If taken too far, the bickering back and forth can be quite amusing in its ridiculous pretentiousness and insincere politeness.

  5. Sweet wounded jeebus, alicia, that group is horrifying. I really don’t understand how anyone could be satisfied being simply being decorative (even with all the BS that comes with that aside).

    I simply cannot imagine not having my own money, however meager it might be. My partner and I have been together almost ten years and have always kept our finances separate and have, pretty much from the word go (he paid on our second date after we split on the first) had a equitable financial thing. I’ve been a student for almost ever, he’s always made more $–sometimes twice as much. We pay rent (the biggest expense) in proportion to our incomes, split groceries, utilities, etc. down the middle, and treat each other to meals/drinks/movies when we can. We have, in that time, had ZERO fights about money, which was the plan, and it’s worked beautifully. He has probably put more $ into our life together than I have, but he assures me, with a wink, that I’ll have my chance once I get that tenured university position.

  6. I’m just commenting to say that I love, love, looooove Stephanie Coontz. Everyone here should read and would love all of her books. She teaches at Evergreen State College in Washington, which is a progressive, liberal, environmentally and socially conscious lovepile of an institution. I have a academic crush on her.

  7. What I didn’t get is where the woman said it was a shame that the guy freaked out, because she liked him. For me, this is sort of like, “It’s a shame he was a baby-killing axe-murderer, because he was really nice otherwise!” If a man can’t handle me paying for things, making more money than him, or (like this will ever happen) having a swankier apartment than him, I am absolutely not interested. I date men, not scared little boys.

  8. What Kelsey says about Stephanie Coontz. If you haven’t read her stuff, you’re missing out on some great references to bolster arguments against the conservative “family values” crowd. Not that actual data matters all that much in those circles, anyway.

    I think exholt has a point about class issues, which weren’t really addresed. was struck by this anecdote

    Jade Wannell, 25, a producer at a Chicago ad agency who lives in a high-rise apartment building, started dating a 29-year-old administrator at a trucking company last year. “He was really sweet,” she said. But “he didn’t work many hours and ended up hanging out at home a lot. I was bored and didn’t feel challenged. He would finish work at 3 and want to go to the bar. The college way of life is still in them at that age. All they want to do is drink with the boys on Saturday. I was like ‘Let’s go to an art gallery’ and all he wanted to do was go to the bars.”

    To me, that mismatch has little to do with money and more to do with values and priorities and maybe even, as the article says, “drive”. I’ve met professional men who wanted to sit around and drink beer and shoot pool in their off-hours, too, and she probably wouldn’t have been any more comfortable with them. It’s not always about the money.

  9. I do agree that class issues do come into play here, but I wonder if we’re seeing a tendency to normalize upper-middle class values and pursuits. Why is going to an art gallery necessarily a better thing to do than have some drinks with your friends and play pool at any given moment?

    On the other hand, if one partner isn’t making an effort to meet the other halfway and do some of the things that he/she wants to do some of the time, then that’s a problem. That seems to be the case with the woman that Jay quoted above. But I sensed it was even more than that, though I could be reading too much into the quote.

  10. I do agree that class issues do come into play here, but I wonder if we’re seeing a tendency to normalize upper-middle class values and pursuits. Why is going to an art gallery necessarily a better thing to do than have some drinks with your friends and play pool at any given moment?

    From reading the histories of the US, China, Japan, Germany, and Britain, it seems that there has long been an elite culture that is privileged over the wide variety of non-elite cultures within each given society. This could be observed in many areas including that of “standard” vs “non-standard” dialects within a given nation (i.e. literary Chinese versus vernacular or standard written American English versus a wide variety of casual spoken vernacular English), or in various forms of cultural production such as the types of art or music considered deemed acceptable or unacceptable by the dominant elite/elites within a given society. Whether it is visiting art galleries versus shooting pool with friends or going to a classical music/jazz concert versus attending a rock/hip-hop concert by a local garage band in a disheveled dive bar…your choices are often used by others as markers by which to judge your degree of compliance/noncompliance with elite cultural tastes. From this, they will either treat you with varying degrees of praise and/or harsh criticism according to how they view your preferences.

    The latter was touched upon in the following two pandagon posts:

    first post

    and

    here

  11. So basically, admitting that you’re a successful woman scares away fragile ego-driven men.

    … And this is a problem, how?

    Seriously though, I can see how this is a problem, because then it encourages women to hold themselves back. There’s already thousands of articles telling women not to be too pushy/clingy/demanding/committing, so what’s one more thing to suppress in order to sooth the poor little boy-childs?

    My dad’s answer when I asked him what he would think if mum earned more than him? “That’d practically be my dream.” And I bet his brother would be horrified at the idea.

  12. This is why I used to play a little game when I was single and out at a place where I would likely be hit on. I would count the number of complete sentences until a man who was engaging me in conversation somehow brought up what he did for a living specifically in the context of his earning power OR otherwise made a thinly veiled statement of “I’m well off.” Usually in certain bars it was fewer than five sentences. If it got mentioned at all, unless it had followed some kind of query I had made, such as “that must afford you some great vacations,” etc., there was no way I would date or have sex with this individual. I really didn’t feel any compunction to perpetuate the old trade of youth-and-fecundity (or just youth-and-sex) for offers of financial comfort. This might well be extremely unfair (for what it’s worth, I’ve met very well-off guys who never talk about their wealth and are interesting people and don’t feel the need to use it as a sexual lure, usually because they’re good-looking, stylish or confident enough that many women would probably want to have sex with them even if they were homeless as long as they didn’t smell), but I felt the need to overcompensate so that I would never, ever, be stuck with the sort of man a good friend of mine at the time somehow brought herself to date. He was a rather unattractive, overcompensating type who worked in finance, with two ex-wives (one of whom stalked my friend) who felt the need to direct everyone around him and once dissuaded her from ordering dessert in a restaurant adding, “I like my women thin.” Uh, your women? Is that akin to how I like my hamburgers?

    For a large portion of the urban white collar nonelite (I include myself in this group), these sexual power games are ludicrous. We tend to pair up with people relatively equal in status or earning. I was raised to do my best to pull my own weight and to seek someone who would do the same. Without being a huge stickler for “I must make exactly what my mate makes,” I still feel it’s a safe bet when seeking an egalitarian relationship to aim for someone who makes a little less, the same, or not much more than you do. My husband and I have gone through a period where I was the sole provider (not by either of our choice), we have gone through periods where one or the other of us earns more, and we’re about to go three months of him being the sole provider as I do not have paid maternity leave. Is it ridiculous that one should consider relative financial situations when there are much finer qualities such as personality and compatibility on which relationships should be based? yes, absolutely, and to be sure, it’s farther down on the list than those two. But when you talk about long-term, you have to think about how the dynamics of your lives will play out. I always had a deep instinctive aversion to men who overtly stated that they wanted to “provide for me,” even though I don’t doubt for a second that were I unable to work, my husband would do just that. It’s true that being “provided for” affected my husband terribly, not in the least because we simply can’t survive on one income so we were both incredibly cranky all the time. It’s amazing what being unable to pay your bills does to your general mood.

    For the record, I always asked out whomever I wanted to – and always offered to split the bill. It so happens that my husband made the move on me first (we were friends first anyway), but I think that’s irrelevant in terms of proving any kind of point, given that I was already comfortable acting against the norm in my dating life.

  13. I know men face peer pressure about these things, but they really just need to get over it. I “lost” a couple of guys I dated because of this dynamic, and I wasn’t even earning that much. I was just independent and had my shit together.

    When my husband and I first got together he had a few hang-ups about our financial situations, partly because he is from a country that is more patriarchal still, than the U.S. Fortunately, he shared his feelings and I was able to tell him I understood how he felt, but I have a house and he doesn’t so deal with it. (I was nice about it, though)

    Anyway, now he’s a student and won’t be earning more money than me for a long time. And while we don’t argue about money, I do find myself reassuring him that it’s okay he isn’t earning as much as I do. So, I guess that’s my own conditioning and his anxieties still in play even though we consider our selves beyond that kind of thinking.

  14. What I didn’t get is where the woman said it was a shame that the guy freaked out, because she liked him. For me, this is sort of like, “It’s a shame he was a baby-killing axe-murderer, because he was really nice otherwise!” If a man can’t handle me paying for things, making more money than him, or (like this will ever happen) having a swankier apartment than him, I am absolutely not interested. I date men, not scared little boys.

    Given that women are conditioned to think of themselves as the problem when anything goes wrong in any kind of relationship, this is hardly surprising. It takes a lot of self-confidence of a sort that isn’t the same as what it takes to get through school and get a good job to get rejected by an otherwise-swell guy who you really like because he freaked out about your income/success and just brush it off as his problem.

  15. I know men face peer pressure about these things, but they really just need to get over it.

    I agree here, but there’s another wrinkle besides peer pressure (if you meant pressure by other men, male friends, etc.); it’s that this standard of “the man pays” or “the man should have a high(er) income” is sometimes enforced by women as well as men. It can be difficult to decode what some women mean when they say they want a man who is “financially secure”. Sometimes it’s as simple as “please have a job”, whereas at other times it means “if you don’t have a certain job/certain level of income, you’re a loser.”

    Now, of course, we all have the right to choose what our standards are for dating someone. Furthermore, we all have our anxieties in terms of whether or not we meet certain societal standards when dating; in other words, I’m not trying to make a “what about the menz??” argument. It’s just that our society is still dealing with shifting gender roles, but sometimes the expectations of either party in dating are still catching up. Which means that you have to work a little harder to find that person who isn’t threatened by your earnings or who doesn’t expect that you will foot the bill regardless.

  16. This, in my opinon, is not a recent phenomenon. I’m pretty sure that after every war quite a few women earned their own money because their husbands were captured and wouldn’t return any time soon. My grandpa was away for six years and later had times when he was unemployed or in low-paying jobs. My grandma was working in the same company all her life and sometimes out-earned him. But, as he said, he was grateful she never complained about this.

  17. There are a couple of different factors at work here: one, of course, is that the women’s movement has, as Jill says, done a better job of enabling women to earn a comfortable living than it has in changing the mindset of the man as primary provider.

    We live in a culture where masculinity is still, for many, something that has to be performed and enacted — and while little boys perform in peeing contests, and older boys perform in drinking contests, adult men traditionally perform in earning contests. This is deeply entrenched.

    But the fact that it’s entrenched doesn’t mean, of course, that it’s good or inevitable. Men do need to do their own work to “get over it” (which they can do), but they also need more role models of men who are loving, committed, involved partners to women who earn more than they do.

    And of course, sometimes women are earning more because they’re working harder. Women’s increased earning power, combined with the “failure to launch/Peter Pan syndrome” leads to a lot of frustration.

    Disparate incomes are one thing, disparate levels of enthusiasm for doing something productive with your life are something else!

  18. Ugh, yes; sometimes the “who pays for it” argument can ferret out the losers. My crazy ex boyfriend used to insist on paying for everything, opening car doors, etc. I admit, even as a from-the-cradle-trained feminist, I started thinking, this is kind of nice. But it’s all a ploy. When I felt we drifted apart, and broke up with him nicely (even tried to stay friends) the second I started seeing another guy (the man I’d later marry) he called me a slut and told every single person we knew that I was a slut and wrote me harassing emails about how I’d “changed” into a terrible person that he didn’t recognize.

    Lunatic. All the hand-holding, all the pretenses of respect were just, in his mind, the bidding process on me; and I’d chosen to step out of it. It was majorly eye-opening.

    Mr. Orange and I have discussed the “who makes more money” argument, too; his response was “Please make more money than me, so that if we have kids, I can stay home and run a recording studio while you go to work and do research and write and travel.”

    Works for me. 😉

  19. Been a while since I’ve had to worry about the dating scene, thank goodness, but when we were dating my husband and I always split the check. Now I stay at home with the kids, but I also work from home, and sometimes outearn him.

    Two of my sisters have their husbands as stay at home dads. It’s interesting hearing about this kind of thing from their perspective. It’s really hard on them getting past the “breadwinner” idea. One is coping better than the other, but neither is interested in trading.

    I like equality in dating, and not worrying about who pays for what in marriage. It saves a lot of fights.

  20. exholt,

    Rich people are snobby. Elites look down on non-elites. You admitted this yourself. Why must you always conflate women with class? Progressivism with class? Idealism with class? (I saw you rag on idealists and Kucinich-supporters in one thread because they ALSO reminded you of people in your past.)

  21. exholt,

    You admitted rich people are snobs and elites look down on people. Why do you always conflate women and class? Progressives and class? Idealism and class? I saw you rag on idealists and Kucinich-supporters on a thread the other day because THEY ALSO REMINDED YOU of people in your past.

  22. What I’m saying is you yourself admit rich people are snobs and elites look down on people but that’s men and women but you always have to dig on women, progressives and idealists. Can’t you ever make a point without ragging on people unrelated to your past who for all you know are NOT LIKE people in your past?

  23. Donna,

    If you carefully read my previous comment germane to this posting, you would have noticed I never made such a blanket statement about all rich people being snobs. Heck, I even mentioned that with a few dreadfully bad examples, most of the women I dated from a higher socio-economic background were reasonably down-to-earth and personable.

    Moreover, in studying the history and politics of different societies or the way they treat various groups within, class is one factor that could seldom be excluded from historical, political, or sociological analysis. The vast majority of human societies in history tended to have some form of social stratification….including the “class-free” American society or the “egalitarian” socialistic societies you assumed I knew nothing about from a previous comment of yours.

    As for idealists…I respect idealists who are able to coherently argue the importance of their ideas and explain how they plan to implement them so they bring them into reality. I know several of them who are current members of various progressive organizations as well as those who created and populated this and other progressive blogs with a few exceptions.

    Sorry, but I am not convinced Kucinich has convincingly demonstrated that to me or other posters who “ragged” on him. If you disagree like my politically left-leaning friend who’s only gripe with Kucinich is that he’s not left enough, that’s your prerogative.

  24. You missed my point, Exholt. Everyone including you agreed rich people can be snobs but here you are conflating class with women/progressives/idealists again. Watch yourself because you do this on 90% of the threads you’re on.

  25. This article has some relevance to me. You see I am married to a woman who out earns me. We have moved to accommodate her career and my career has suffered as a result. We are married 14 years now and we have 3 children ages 5 to 12. I am the primary caregiver to my children and a secondary earner. Early in our marriage my wife was zealous in advancing her career at a time when we earned approximately equal income, though admittedly she has always earned more, but not by the margins she does now. This created conflict then that I sought to avoid and I accommodated her. Looking back I wish I had not been so accommodating. Presently, my wife’s career is not advancing at the rate it had earlier in our marriage and she has grown weary of the responsibility that comes with being a primary breadwinner. I would happily assume that role, except, it would require substantial economic sacrifice and an overall adjustment downward in our standard of living. Predictably this situation has caused a great deal of tension in our marriage. Our exchange of physical affection has diminished to a point of nonexistence. Our marriage and the emotional welfare of our children is in serious jeopardy. I think the men referred to in the article may have some foresight that they are not being credited with. Perhaps they just want to avoid that kind of thing and would prefer a woman who is supportive of their aspirations, not a woman who may conflict with them. By the way my wife and I are approximately equally educated and I am slightly older. She is in her early 40’s and I am closely approaching 50. Being the younger brother of 2 modern feminists I have lived the feminine ideal and as it turns out it is not ideal for us or our children.

  26. So my wife, my 11 year old daughter, and two sons age 5 & 12 and my wife’s girlfriend from college who is now a single childless neurologist are out having lunch at a moderately priced restaurant and my wife and her friend are instructing my daughter in the “fundamentals” of relationships. First the neurologist instructs my daughter that when she goes out to dinner with a girlfriend she should always offer to pay at least her half of the tab, but when she goes out with a guy she should never offer to pay the tab and that if she finds herself paying the tab she should not go out with the man again. The advice that I offered was that it depended on who picked the restaurant. If she picked the restaurant and it was an expensive one and one she might believe is beyond the man’s means then she should offer to pay half of the bill. If the man picked the restaurant then she could assume he knew it was within his means when he picked it and she should not offer to pay unless she knew that she earned more than the man did and what she ordered was more expensive than what the man ordered and in that case she offer to pay the tip and maybe the drinks. My wife (who earns more than I do by almost 3x) gave me an angry look and her neurologist friend gave me a look of shock. The conversation was followed by a period of silence in which I think we all somewhat regretfully contemplated the choices we had made to arrive where we were. So was I wrong?

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