In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Mos Def on Bill Maher



Have I mentioned that I’m in love with Mos Def? Side story: Right before I left New York I walked past him walking down the street near Washington Square Park with a woman who was pushing a baby in a stroller. The baby was cute. Mos Def was cuter. I swooned.

My crush on Mos Def aside, do check out the video. Feminists and other equal rights activists often discuss the value of simply putting non-male, non-white, non-heterosexual, non-able-bodied people on TV, in newsrooms, and in the public eye, and I think this video helps to illustrate why that argument is important. It’s not because there’s one Woman’s View or Black View or Queer View; it’s because it (a) helps to normalize regularly “othered” groups, and (b) it shifts the conversation and the hierarchy of what’s important. When you have more women in newsrooms, regardless of whether or not those women self-identify as feminist, things that are important to women but traditionally demeaned as “women’s issues” — education, health care, child and elder care, etc — get more front-page play. They become normalized as everyone’s issues. When the people who are setting the agenda come from a wider range of backgrounds, the agenda becomes more inclusive.

Here, you have Cornel West and Mos Def bringing up issues and starting conversations about things that have probably flown beneath Bill Maher’s radar. West is a long-standing conservative boogeyman, but as Samhita says, his points here are illuminating.

And to pre-empt what happened in the comments section at Feministing: No one is saying that Mos Def and Cornel West are perfect human beings who we should put on pedestals and follow at all costs. Applauding their performance on this show is not the same thing as embracing everything they’ve ever said. Saying that I like Mos Def or hip hop (and like Samhita, I am also a Miss Fat Booty fan, although Umi Says may be surpassing it on my iTunes most-played list) does not mean that I think every lyric he’s ever written is pro-feminist. Girl Talk dominates my top 25 most-played on iTunes (10 of the 25 slots), and he uses some pretty foul shit in his mash-ups. It’s not feminist. But it is creative, and it is fun, and I do like listening to it. And I can examine the shit out of it, but at the end of the day, if my feminist card is contingent on listening to the Indigo Girls,* you can have it.

A lot of rap and hip-hop isn’t feminist. This isn’t new. A lot of music of every other kind isn’t exactly feminist either, but it seems like hip hop is always a target. And honestly, I get really sick of social conservatives using feminist talking points to attack black artists. Country artists like Toby Keith aren’t exactly female-friendly, but they aren’t getting attacked the American Family Association. For people like Jack Thompson, what’s offensive about hip-hop isn’t a negative view of women; it’s the naughty words and particularly the “African-American vernacular.”

I don’t accept the allegation that it’s anti-feminist to listen to hip-hop; I don’t accept the argument that liking hip-hop is hypocritical for a feminist (and if that’s what you think, I would suggest looking up “hypocrisy”).

What I do think is interesting is that the “OMG misogynist music!!!” argument comes up almost exclusively in response to anything hip-hop-related, when we all know that hip-hop does not, as a genre, have a monopoly on sexism. I also think it’s interesting that Mos Def gets called out on the Feministing thread for totally unrelated comments he apparently made in other settings. It’s kind of the equivalent of negating every intelligent thing Andrea Dworkin ever said with responding, “But she pretty much said that all sex is rape.” Except most feminists don’t do that to Andrea Dworkin or Catharine MacKinnon or any of the other radical feminists who, for all their shortcomings and problems, contributed immeasurably to the movement. We realize that feminist thinkers like Dworkin and MacKinnon are complex people; we realize that supporting one thing they said does not amount to supporting everything they said.

Why aren’t we there with people like Mos Def and Cornel West?

*They’re on my iTunes playlist too, so no Indigo Girls hate here. It was just an obvious example.


12 thoughts on Mos Def on Bill Maher

  1. I’m with you re: hip-hop, Jill. Dismissing the whole genre based on (admittedly common) misogynistic elements prevents us from a) hearing the other elements, which may be powerful insights into class and race, and b) building an understanding of the nature and the roots of anti-woman lyrics and their acceptance, the better to counter them.

  2. that was my favorite episode of Bill Maher’s show so far. I also join you in your Mos Def crush…definitely way cute…

    it was great how they all didn’t 100% agree, but no one was bashing anyone else, they all kind of understood where the other was coming from and listened to explanations, if more political shows were like that i think we’d all be a lot better off

  3. No shit. You can post a Johnny Cash video and nobody will question your feminism–at least not immediately, but if it’s a black man and a hip-hop artist, brace yourself. The comments on Samhita’s post were infuriating. It was obvious that people watched the clip, made some racist assumptions about Def based on his color and then, without ever having listened to his music, started Googling his lyrics to find anything they could throw in Samhita’s face.

    I’m getting pretty sick and tired of everyone having to defend their feminist cred because they buy dogs or like hip hop or wear form-fitting sweaters to lunches with ex presidents or shave their pits or what have you.

    I have to say I think that Maher acted like a prick. Look at how defensive he gets when West asks him why his black friends wanted him to address the Jena six issue. He accuses Mos Def of “being all over the place” and looks at West like he’s on fire when he uses what I thought was a pretty amazing analogy.

  4. I expected Mos, who appears to me to have suffered some kind of nervous breakdown recently, to be way more off mark than he was on Maher. I thought he rocked.

    I also agree that it was the best Maher I’ve seen, mostly because there was no conservative voice and so it was a complex and enlightened argument between three people with varying degrees of liberal views. I thought Mos was right on target with 90% of what he said, and the conspiracy theory stuff was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

    The issues I have with Mos are that in his personal life and in his lyrics he hasn’t always stood up to the consciousness he embodied in his earlier rapping. It’s less an issue with hip-hop and more an issue I have with men on the left historically.

    Note that Cornel West ALWAYS adds to his discussions of racism by adding thoughts on sexism, homophobia, xenphobia etc. He’s really hip to the way oppressions intersect. But I think Mos Def has some issues with his masculinity, and his particular approach to Islam isn’t helping. (Incidentally Talib Kweli, also Muslim, has an amazing track about religion on his new album that basically acknowledges how F-ed up all religious extremism is).

  5. 2 things
    -“I shouldn’t have to live in two Americas” is a great quote
    -that OJ crack was some serious bullshit.

  6. I watched it yesterday, laughing and cheering. I love that Mos Def said that when people wish to harm you, they’re already doing it, and not making bullshit videos to scare you. We don’t hear enough uncensored voices from the left on television, whether you believe all that they say or not.
    And Cornel West is the type of academic that I aspire to be (aside from making an album).

  7. I haven’t looked at the Feministing comments, but did they also criticize Bill Maher’s less-than-feminist statements, or was it just reserved for the black dudes?

    I watched this episode of Real Time last Friday, and I was surprised that Maher was so resistant to the point Mos Def was making. He wasn’t “all over the place” or “comparing apples to oranges,” as Maher said. Basically, I don’t think Maher really got his point, because he kept saying that Mos Def’s point about the cops doesn’t negate the fact that terrorists want to kill us. Though he didn’t state it explicitly, Mos Def’s point was that the terrorist bogeyman is a distraction from domestic issues that have a far greater impact on the daily lives of Americans. Maher insisted on continuing to make the point that yes, there are terrorists who want to blow us up. Like Mos Def, I’m not afraid of being blown up by a terrorist. I don’t want my government to ignore terrorism, and 9/11 did change something (but not everything), but there are so many other issues that have been thrown by the wayside that I want the government to deal with.

  8. The comments at Feministing were varied–some were supportive and a few were ridiculously off the mark. One of the first comments was someone demanding to know how Samhita could call herself a feminist if she was a fan of Mos Def. Then there was some nonsense about “leftists” and “Islamists.” I didn’t see anyone call Maher out for acting all offended when West didn’t go along with Maher’s insinuation that his black friends considered him the go-to guy for covering issues of race.

  9. I’m getting pretty sick and tired of everyone having to defend their feminist cred because they buy dogs or like hip hop or wear form-fitting sweaters to lunches with ex presidents or shave their pits or what have you.

    Yes. Thank you.

  10. Maybe I’ll have to check this episode out again. I turned it off about 15 minutes in because I was really bitterly disappointed by Mos Def’s pushing the “9/11 was a conspiracy” thing. That’s gotten to be a real hot button for me, and I reserve the right to lump people who buy into it into the same group as David Irving, “Intelligent Design” theorists, and free market economists. And he did tend to rant a little bit. I kinda like the dynamic of having three people on the panel, whether there’s a Con there or not. Sometimes it doesn’t work, like when the people on the end start leaning over the person in the middle to yell at each other, but when it’s balanced well, it makes for an interesting dynamic.

  11. How does one pick out the biggest lunatic in a big ol’ lunatic pile? Suppose I’ll just go with mos def himself. Although those that love him may be even worse. Oooooooooh. Who to choose? Who to choose?
    Congrats! You’re all winners today!

    Lunatics.

Comments are currently closed.