Abstinence Feels Good April 6, 2007 Jill But let’s be honest, orgasms feel better. Good try though, guys. via Feministing.
It’s interesting that they don’t use the word that they really mean: celibacy. I guess that doesn’t have as fun a ring to it.
That’s very pharmaceutical-ad. “We can’t tell you what this drug does, but these people feel glee! glee, I tell you! Such glee after taking it that they can fly! Up in the sky! With a few puffy clouds! Glee!”
That’s right. Everything was fine in my life before I had pre-marital sex. I was accomplishing my goals, I had a good reputation, a clear conscience, a good relationship with my parents, and my boyfriend loved me for more than just my body. Then I had sex. Suddenly, I was getting D’s and F’s for the same work that used to earn me striaght A’s. Then, inexplicably, I got rejected from every one of the colleges I applied to. When I called to find out why, the people at Admissions mumbled something vague about compliance with a new nationwide policy called “Unchaste, Unwelcome.” After that, things went really downhill. I suddenly found that I had HIV, herpes, pregnancy, halitosis, the plague, and hoof-in-mouth disease. And I only had sex once –with protection! When my boyfriend’s parents found out, they were sure I was to blame. I tempted him, wicked girl that I am. I sure wish I had paid more attention to those billboards on the highway, and less to stupid whorey sex-education teachers. Let this be a lesson to you all.
My first thought when I saw this post was, feeling confident enough to say no to sex you don’t want does feel good. Then I clicked through to the site and saw “It feels good to have a good reputation” as the first reason abstinence feels good, and “it feels good to be in the majority” not far behind. It’s interesting that they don’t use the word that they really mean: celibacy. I guess that doesn’t have as fun a ring to it. Actually, celibacy has a much more positive connotation for me personally than abstinence. “Celibate” brings to my mind someone who has some noble vocation (at least in theory), while “abstinence” brings to mind someone who’s more deprived. But maybe I’m just weird.
“Celibate” brings to my mind someone who has some noble vocation (at least in theory)… Can’t say I think much of that theory. What’s so noble (or, for that matter, ignoble) about not getting laid?
But let’s be honest, orgasms feel better. If orgasms were the only issue then the problem would be much more tractable. Orgasms and abstinence aren’t mutually exclusive. What do you think vibrators are for? Not to mention fingers. Ahem. However, most people enjoy the, for lack of a better term, social aspect of sexual relations with others as well as the orgasms. Depriving them of that aspect or suggesting that they should deprive themselves of that seems unwise at best.
As an “abstainer”, let me tell you guys…it’s all fun. Fun, fun, fun. It’s like a party…it’s…it’s…okay…not really fun at all. Dammit.
Why doesn’t the billboard have a young man leaping into the air and claiming that abstinancy is great? Just asking…
Can’t say I think much of that theory. What’s so noble (or, for that matter, ignoble) about not getting laid? It’s that celibacy tends to be associated with religion — not only priests and nuns, but the celibate traditions in Hinduism and Buddhism, etc. Also, to me, “celibacy” has more of a choice aspect about it than “abstinence.” You affirmatively choose to be celibate, whereas someone can be abstinent just because they don’t have a lot of opportunities (i.e. me in college ;-).
Why doesn’t the billboard have a young man leaping into the air and claiming that abstinancy is great? If you click through the link, there is actually a billboard with a young man on a skateboard with the same message. Oddly, though, that ad is like an iPod ad, with a bright lime background and the young man in silhouette. Juxtaposed with the ad for young women, it’s an interesting contrast, the theoretical, shadowed male and the real live female. I guess for young men, abstinence feels good but also must be hidden, whereas young women are supposed to advertise their virginity for it to feel good. Sounds about right.
Oddly, though, that ad is like an iPod ad Well women get the tampon ad, if I had to think up an advert for the still theoretical Patriot Pad sanitary towels, that’s pretty much what the ad would look like. Men of course get the “even if you’re not doing it you’re still hip!” ipod variant. It all makes a certain amount of sense – if they were made by satirists.
ekf, I had the same reaction to the difference between the two billboards, and came to the same conclusion (though I think it’s because they couldn’t get any young men to be on the board, face shown, which is basicly a result of what you said).
I’ve just noticed that the young woman on the billboard has managed to leap into the air with her knees pressed tightly together. That can’t be easy. Or comfortable. I also notice that it’s always the boyfriend who is suspected of loving one solely for one’s body.
R. Mildred: Funny you should think of tampon ads. The first thing I thought when I saw that picture was, This is the oddest pairing of exuberance with sexual/biological matters since those old tampon commercials that depicted menstruation as this rollickingly blissful experience that compelled women to ride horses on the beach.
Well women get the tampon ad “Abstinence: It makes you happy and peppy and gives you the best protection against bleeding! Now you can wear white pants without any worries.”
What Mnemosyne said (about celibacy vs. abstinence). I associate celibacy with affirmative choice, religious faith, and a community (whether Christian, Buddhist, or Hinduism) that may be formed around doing something positive while sharing some celibate commitment. Doesn’t mean it has no downside – for all my admiration for Gandhi, his vow of abstinence while still married and his later habit of challenging that abstinence by sleeping with very young women while not having sex with them make him not so much my ideal as a husband. But it’s still a word that connotes to me that you’re getting or achieving something positive in the community that goes along with the not getting laid experience, while abstinence could well mean you just haven’t gotten lucky yet.
R. Mildred: Funny you should think of tampon ads. The first thing I thought when I saw that picture was, This is the oddest pairing of exuberance with sexual/biological matters since those old tampon commercials that depicted menstruation as this rollickingly blissful experience that compelled women to ride horses on the beach. Wait, it was only me who had that horseback-riding urge at that time of the month?
Now, let’s all keep in mind, as my Vocabulary Nazi Friends have told me, that being “celibate” just means never marrying. Being “chaste” is the actual word you guys are looking for. Chaste = not having sex with other people. So, yay abstinence party for bringing the Chastity Belt back into society! Now locksmithing will be a viable profession once again!
oooh, vocab nazis, here I am! from http://www.m-w.com, Main Entry: chas·ti·ty 1 : the quality or state of being chaste : as a : abstention from unlawful sexual intercourse b : abstention from all sexual intercourse c : purity in conduct and intention d : restraint and simplicity in design or expression 2 : personal integrity Main Entry: cel·i·ba·cy 1 : the state of not being married 2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage Main Entry: ab·sti·nence 1 : voluntary forbearance especially from indulgence of an appetite or craving or from eating some foods 2 a : habitual abstaining from intoxicating beverages b : abstention from sexual intercourse Anyone have an OED? Or an online subscription?
ps, I will never forget the Lenten CCD class where the teacher tried to explain why we abstain from meat. I don’t know how old I was, but 7th-8th grade is a good bet. She started the discussion by saying “We practice abstinence during Lent. Do you all know what abstinence is?” and we all nodded. I was a little confused b/c I never heard the “no sex during lent rule before, and the oldest of us was only in high school, and we were all unmarried. But whatever, the teacher can talk about whatever she wants. She followed up by asking a girl to tell her what abstinence was, and the girl replied “Not having sex.” The teacher just about fell off her chair. She actually clutched her pearls, and let out a high-pitched embarrassed laugh and said “Oh no no no, it means not eating meat!” I wanted to laugh my ass off. When used unqualified, abstinence generally means no sex. Did she really think we didn’t know that? Did she think we didn’t know about sex and therefore couldn’t be expected to know that definition of abstinence?
Subgrrl8: “abstaining from all sexual intercourse” is one definition of chaste; another is “abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse” (where “lawful” doesn’t necessarily mean the laws of a country, but can also mean the laws of a religion). For example, all Christian priests take vows of chastity, but some denominations allow them to marry and have sex, and they don’t break their vow of chastity by so doing. (See e.g. here where the rulebook of an order of Episcopalian friars says “Chastity is defined as entailing continent celibacy or permanent fidelity”.)
I suppose the character on the lime-green billboard is meant to be a male. It looks pretty androgenous to me, though. With the front-forward silhouette and the squat, there aren’t any obvious sexual characteristics displayed. Unless you happen to be someone who thinks that girls never ride skateboards.
Unless you happen to be someone who thinks that girls never ride skateboards. I’d put money on the people behind these ads thinking precisely that girls never ride skateboards. At least, you know, girls in the majority…
Main Entry: cel·i·ba·cy 1 : the state of not being married 2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse Means we can still masturbate and be celibate. I think that goes for “chaste” too. (Unless there are still laws against self-flagellation or something equally ridiculous and archaic. Main Entry: ab·sti·nence 1 : voluntary forbearance especially from indulgence of an appetite or craving Now this one actually fits the bill. I don’t imagine they offer masturbation as an alternative to intercourse?? In that case, it really fits 1…”appetite or craving” Crazy stuff. More messages from the Religious Right, and appropriate even to the current blogswarm Blog Against Theocracy Seriously; this shit is freakin’ me out!!!
I have OED! celibacy The state of living unmarried. chastity The quality or state of being chaste. 1. a. Purity from unlawful sexual intercourse; continence. 2. Abstinence from all sexual intercourse; virginity, celibacy. 3. Ceremonial purity. (for L. castitas.) Obs. rare. 4. Exclusion of meretricious ornament; purity of style, modesty, chasteness. 5. Exclusion of excess or extravagance; moderation, restraint. 6. attrib., as chastity clause; chastity belt, a belt designed to prevent a woman from having sexual intercourse; also fig. abstinence 1. a. The action or practice of abstaining or refraining; forbearance. Const. from (of obs.). b. spec. A forbearance from hostilities, an armistice or truce. 2. absol. Forbearance of any indulgence of appetite, self-restraint: a. continence (the oldest sense); b. fasting; c. the practice of abstaining from alcoholic beverages, also known as total abstinence. . 3. Pol. Econ. The practice of abstaining from expenditure in order to accumulate capital. 4. Special Comb.: abstinence syndrome Med., the group of physical symptoms that appear when a person who is addicted to a drug suddenly stops taking it; cf. withdrawal symptoms s.v. WITHDRAWAL 7.
I think of chastity/celibacy as a long-term choice, and abstinence as more short-term. Probably because I associate celibacy with the priesthood which is FOREVER, and abstinence as what you do when you shouldn’t be doing that right at the moment (like the Lent example). That said, I was one of those abstinent/chaste teens. It SUCKED. I’ll admit that it kept me from getting into a world of trouble in a lot of ways, but it also had its drawbacks, and I won’t be counseling my children that they absolutely must be chaste before marriage. Far from it.
Alright… I’m honest with my parents (at least, they know I have slept with (OMFG, teh SEXINGS) someone before), I have a clear conscience, I don’t think this’ll change the health whatever marraige I eventually have, and, frankly, often the primary goal I want to accomplish is TO GET LAID. How’s abstinence gonna help me with that, huh?? Well, get laid, and also not flunk out of college. But that’s more of a lazyAss.playsVideoGames(); problem then, y’know, teh sexings. But it’s Friday night, so you can imagine which of these goals is more in my sights at the moment. On that note, I’m gonna stop surfing blogs in my bathrobe and go out. 🙂 (Oh, and the skateboard site has many VERY obnoxious web design choices. If any of you maintain a website, do not do not for the love of god have music automatically play when someone opens it. Chocolate Iesu Criste on a pogo stick. Open a lot of tabs and you have no idea where it is and AUUUGH you want it to stop already!! Also, any website that uses stilted chatspeak to reach out to my generation or below automatically loses 5 intarwebs. That’s bad.)
(oh, and despite the general CS references… I’m female, if anyone’s wondering. And the different website images bug me too.)
I never considered myself abstinent. I decided I wasn’t ready for sex somewhere around age 12, when a lot of girls started becoming sexually active (mostly oral at the time), and decided that I would reevaluate that decision when I was 16. And then I stuck to that decision. It wasn’t about a hatred of sex. I didn’t judge other girls or boys for having sex, for making a different decision (except when I thought they were far too immature for it or if they weren’t doing so safely), and I certainly didn’t run around telling people that I was so goddamned special because I hadn’t ever had sex. That’s why the abstinence movement bugs me. It offends me as a pro-choice person. It’s not about making a personal choice about what you do and don’t want to do, it’s about being told that there’s one right choice (not having sex until the rather arbitrary point of marriage) and any other choice is not as good. And that’s stupid.
You know, at some point, I had to just level with my mother: I’m single, I’m over 30, and I live in New York. I’m having sex. Deal with it.
Now, now, to be fair, it’s not that abstinence is a BAD thing. I think it’s a very positive choice to make. But see, I used the word “choice”. Being guilted into it is entirely different. I was abstinent all through high school and I don’t regret it at all. Granted, it wasn’t to wait for marriage, but for love (I started having sex in college). I personally didn’t want to make any risky decisions before I was smart enough (to do it for the right reasons, with protection, with someone who wouldn’t ever call me again, etc). So, it’s not the choice I have a problem with- it’s their reasons behind it. Tzs- no, you’re not the only one!
Can I just say that that billboard’s existence shocks me? It’s talking about ESS EEE EKS. In front of the children. I really didn’t think it was a real billboard – it’s about sex! You’d think someone would be flipping out over it. I’m also pissed because you can only jump like that if you have a trampoline and stupid Robert broke ours (http://ohmonkeytrumpets.blogspot.com/2007/03/trampoline-is-dead.html), so I can’t pretend to be AbstinentGirl! Even though I am… but college starts in the fall. Who knows?
jill, i usually admire your blog entries, but this one comes across as unnecessarily condescending and judgemental (unless you were just joking, in which case it was funny). as others noted, abstinence is a choice – a pretty difficult one in today’s society – but one which i believe is worthwhile for myself. it’s hard to infer exactly what you were doing with this entry, but it seemed to me that you took issue with abstinence itself, which seems very “aliberal” to me. maybe you were just laughing at the billboard though; it’s very lame, i agree.
One of the “positives” of abstinence: It feels good to have a good reputation Ah, the scarlet “S” for “slut” appears, just as we knew it would. Because everybody respects a self-righteous, narrow-minded, smug, condescending, judgmental twit simply because the “Do Not Remove Under Penalty of Daddy” tag is still in place.
“abstinence is a choice – a pretty difficult one in today’s society” – Fab – how exactly? You say no, you draw your boundaries and you go about your life sans sex. what does society have to do with *personal* choices like this? Your date: “Let’s have sex. Society says so.” You: “Well, I want to be abstinent until I get married, but society rules. Let’s do it.” ???
kaitlyn, i imagine it *is* hard to be abstinent in today’s society. most adults won’t date someone who won’t have sex, i sure as hell wouldn’t. and when you take a person who refuses to have sex and then add a layer of self-righteousness, sprinkle on a bit of self-victimization, and top it off with a dollop of judgment, it has to be extremely hard to find someone willing to wait for whatever milestone to pass before you’ll fuck them. and the person that *is* willing to wait that long is probably a total douche themselves.
You want to abstain? Cool for you. But click the link and its REALLY obvious that this isn’t an effort to affirm different “personal” choices. Its about imposing a community choice on everyone. Hence the fantasy about abstainers being the “majority”. Hence implying that people having sex are wrong, sinful, diseased, lying monsters. This isn’t about affirmation for its own sake. Its about affirmation by condemnation. I was once a liberal, agnostic committed virgin. I have since changed my mind, but I still respect those who abstain from sex. But I expect that respect in return. I don’t respect the choice to condemn me for my choice. That’s what this advertising campaign does.
“You say no, you draw your boundaries and you go about your life sans sex. what does society have to do with *personal* choices like this? – kaitlyn” society influences how others perceive sex. and therefore, there is an extreme amount of pressure to not only sleep with someone you are dating, but also (esp if youre a guy) sleep with women who express interest in you when you are single. people, conservatives, mysogonists, feminists, liberals, progressives, whatever, react disdainfully and judgmentally with those wish to wait. take rachel for example: “i sure as hell wouldn’t. and when you take a person who refuses to have sex and then add a layer of self-righteousness, sprinkle on a bit of self-victimization, and top it off with a dollop of judgment, it has to be extremely hard to find someone willing to wait for whatever milestone to pass before you’ll fuck them. and the person that *is* willing to wait that long is probably a total douche themselves.” that’s a totally irrational and downright hostile response to those who wish to abstain. you condemn “self-righteousness” but then flippantly add something about them probably being a “total douche themselves”. not very progressive thinking.
what does society have to do with *personal* choices like this? Your date: “Let’s have sex. Society says so.” You: “Well, I want to be abstinent until I get married, but society rules. Let’s do it.” ??? Except I don’t think that’s how the conversation goes. It’s probably a lot more like: Your date: Let’s have sex. You: I want to be abstinent until I get married. Your date: Huh? That’s really weird. What’s wrong with you? Are you a prude? Are you frigid? You: No. Your date: So let’s have sex. You: I want to abstain until marriage. Your date: Oh, come on. No one does that anymore. Etc. kaitlyn, i imagine it *is* hard to be abstinent in today’s society. most adults won’t date someone who won’t have sex, i sure as hell wouldn’t. and when you take a person who refuses to have sex and then add a layer of self-righteousness, sprinkle on a bit of self-victimization, and top it off with a dollop of judgment, Why do you assume that people who choose abstience are self-righteous and judgmental? I’m picking up a lot of judgmental from your comment. BTW, for the record, I am not abstinent. I do have a friend who is, and she’s certainly not self-righteous or judgmental about it. In fact, if anything she feels guilty about it and wonders if there is something wrong with her, pretty much because if she dates someone more than 3 times, they ask her what’s wrong with her. And also because of comments like yours. Look, it’s what works for her. She doesn’t insist that anyone who doesn’t is wrong.
just discovered the quote button… I was once a liberal, agnostic committed virgin. I have since changed my mind, but I still respect those who abstain from sex. But I expect that respect in return. I don’t respect the choice to condemn me for my choice. That’s what this advertising campaign does. i respect that everyone is allowed to make their own choices, but the ad campaign is totally justified in arguing against pre-marital sex, just as any one is totally justified in arguing for it. i agree that simply condemning choices and lifestyles is pointless and typically results in a hostile response. but there’s nothing wrong with provoking reasoned debate either, IMO.
Your date: Let’s have sex. You: I want to be abstinent until I get married. Your date: Huh? That’s really weird. What’s wrong with you? Are you a prude? Are you frigid? You: No. Your date: So let’s have sex. You: I want to abstain until marriage. Your date: Oh, come on. No one does that anymore. Etc. pretty much. it actually usually goes like this: You:: I actually dont believe in doing anything sexual before marriage. Your date: Anything? You: yea, im sorry that’s just how it is. Your date: wow. but we really love each other. You: we’ve only been on three dates. Your date: well, still i feel like we really bonded. You: yea, i feel like a real bond needs real commitment and real commitment needs marriage. Your date: wow. that’s really weird. what about just oral sex? You: umm……um….no. .
i respect that everyone is allowed to make their own choices, but the ad campaign is totally justified in arguing against pre-marital sex, just as any one is totally justified in arguing for it. The billboards just promote abstinence as feeling good. The website they direct you to does more than that. The website has statements like “It feels good to have a good reputation,” and “It feels good to have a clear conscience.” Those are just condemnations of people who aren’t abstinent, with no reason behind them. My reputation is fine and my conscience is clear. If others, such as the proprietors of that website, wish to judge me otherwise, I hope they have a fine day for it, but I’m not about to enter into any kind of debate with them. “You’re a slut who should feel guilty about it” is not a good faith position.
i agree leslie. i dont give a damn about the campaign. its pointless and unnecessarily hostile. i was just posting about what i felt to be jill’s own condescending tone towards subsistences itself.
i agree lesley. i dont give a damn about the campaign. its pointless and unnecessarily hostile. i was just posting about what i felt to be jill’s own condescending tone towards abstinence itself.
“It feels good not to need a babysitter on Friday nights?” I’m not sure how this one is supposed to work. I mean, I have never in my life heard of parents hiring a babysitter for their teenaged child to prevent them from having sex. And I did a LOT of babysitting.
If you click on the skateboarder picture on their home page, it takes you to a page that announces, “Freaky Fact of the Month: HPV, the most common viral STD, is commonly referred to as Genital Warts. Genital Warts are easily passed from one person to another by skin-to-skin contact whether the warts are visible or not. That means you don’t even have to go “all the way” to get it. Yuck!” Their Freaky Fact is all about linking sexual activity of all kinds–“you don’t even have to go ‘all the way'”–to gross, yucky diseases. Nary a mention of the fact that there is now a vaccine that is 100% effective in preventing HPV, if given before exposure. Reasoned debate is great and all, but this ad campaign is anything but reasonable.
i respect that everyone is allowed to make their own choices, but the ad campaign is totally justified in arguing against pre-marital sex, just as any one is totally justified in arguing for it. i agree that simply condemning choices and lifestyles is pointless and typically results in a hostile response. but there’s nothing wrong with provoking reasoned debate either, IMO. The campaign uses misinformation and outright lies, which is not exactly conducive to “reasoned debate.” Kinda like abstinence-only sex ed.
I’m not sure how this one is supposed to work. I interpreted that to mean that if you’re abstinent, you won’t get pregnant and have an out-of-wedlock baby. So you’re free to go out on Friday nights without having to get a babysitter to take care of your illegitimate child, you slut you.
Pfft. Everyone knows that if you get pregnant, you just run out and get an abortion. Sometimes I get pregnant JUST to have an abortion!
eh, maybe i’ve run into more self-righteous judgmental douchebags to be polite about it. if you’re not one of them, fine, but don’t expect to not be lumped into them. especially when you call jill judgmental when she didn’t even write a proper post about the ad, she just posted the picture and made a joke about orgasms. on the flip side, consider that you don’t really need an ad campaign to encourage orgasms. people know they feel good so you don’t need to encourage it. on the other hand, abstinence *doesn’t* feel good, unless you get off on that pious halo that surrounds your head. makes a person pause and consider “i want to feel good. i can either have orgasms with someone i like or … i can …. not. and i’ve been *not* having sex for a while but i *still* want orgasms with someone i like …….. what? i’m so confused”. it’s very telling.
“Ahh, Hillsborough. Heavenly Hillsborough. The buckle on the Bible Belt.” –“Inherit the Wind” (coincidentally)
eh, maybe i’ve run into more self-righteous judgmental douchebags to be polite about it. if you’re not one of them, fine, but don’t expect to not be lumped into them. especially when you call jill judgmental when she didn’t even write a proper post about the ad, she just posted the picture and made a joke about orgasms. im sorry, but you really need to work on your reading comprehension. i said that jill was coming across as judgmental, and i simply wanted her to clarify her position. its entirely possible that i misread her intention in this post. but the fact is, during the course of the day, you yourself have provided several red herrings about your own biases and stereotypes, and i think that’s all that really needs to be said on that.
i like to fuck. i don’t like people who judge me for it. like 95% of all americans. those are my only biases.
i said that jill was coming across as judgmental, and i simply wanted her to clarify her position. She’s being judgmental of *the ad*. Which, frankly, is inane, goofy, and looks like an ad for Tampax slim fits. (Long before you even get to the creepy sponsoring websites with their frightful music.)
She’s being judgmental of *the ad*. Which, frankly, is inane, goofy, and looks like an ad for Tampax slim fits. (Long before you even get to the creepy sponsoring websites with their frightful music.) okay. fair enough. its a ridiculous ad and they do a piss poor job of promoting abstinence.
Anyone else want to go in with me on buying a billboard that reads, “I Like to Fuck. I Don’t Like People Who Judge Me for It. ~Brought to you by the majority of oxygen-breathing life-forms”
I agree with you Lesley, and fab, and let me make the disclaimer that a)I am a social retard – seriousluy, I was sick my freshman, half my sophomore, and all of my senior year. and 2) The last time peer pressure bugged me was in 7th grade, when I went ‘goth lite’ and went around saying ‘bite me’ to everyone – especially those in authority. That, oddly enough was the year after I started Tae Kwon Do. It got me kicked off the internet for a month in 2001. So I have NO FUCKING IDEA when it comes to the dating scene. And how come no one is talking about how I have to abstain from jumping on a trampoline, which is what she’s doing, because stupid Robert broke ours? Get back on topic people! I think, from a viery virginal standpoint, that if I’m on a date and the guy pressures for me sex, no. I thought it was that simple. But it’s supposed to be that hard in fucking high school, and I missed that. Hell, april of my senior year (my sister was a frosh there) there was a mjor drug bust that had been going on all year that culminated on 4/20. It wasso fucking funny, but it illustrates my problem. Me: “Drug problem? What drug problem?” Becky, in her very-influenced-by-peer-pressure stage (she stole some of my pain pills and some cold pills that looked like my pain pills because she is an idiot and she said mysister’s on this and someone said, I want some, get me some), was like, “Oh yeah, everyone knows.” So… I want a trampoline. And we got a swing. And it’s not set up yet because the healthy people in the family are in New Mexico, frolicking in the snow, because they are *evil*. And Robert, who broke the trampoline (and the neighbor’s decorative termite-infested fence that they hated and wanted down since it was put up by the previous owner), hasn’t been buy with his friends to be guilted into setting it up. Harumph. I have no trampoline. My point is… I’m a social retard who went on one date that ended with an awkward hug – xmas caroling with mormons – much more boring (but warmer!) than caroling with Methodists – an RV for the Church of Latter-Day Saints and a flatthing towed by a truck filled with hay for the Methodists. My other point – I just got up. I’m on this many pills. *grows another finger* And that’s the required ones. Then you throw in this cold/allergy thing and the fucking pain thing and the thing that treats the pain… I love you all.. and the fact that I have no trampoline. And no one thought my “Abstinence Feels Good, Like a Cigarette Should” was funny, so I’m girl(and dog!)cotting this blog until I get a new trampoline.
Oh, oh, get this: I am going to my first choice college, get along great with my parents, do pretty well in school, am self employed and make good money at it, have creative hobbies and do performance art occasionally, and a pretty wonderful boyfriend and… and… WE HAVE SEX *dun dun dunnnnn*. It’s pretty awesome.
KELSEY! You make me weep… the shame of having a name that begins with the same letter as a *gasp* non-abstinent person. I shall have to fling myself into the Mississippi to avoid the horror – everyone will know. Thanks a lot.
Anyone tracked down where the original picture came from? It would be a nice piece of irony if it was originally used for sanitary products or birth control ads.
I do think Fab has a point. Sometimes this site is incredibly hostile to abstinence (though I don’t think it is as hostile as culture as a whole), sometimes it does seem like some people are engaging slut-shaming in reverse. This strikes me as a bit really weird. The overwhelming majority of people have sex before marriage. In terms of the culture war between premarital sex and absinence you guys have totally thrashed abstinence and they are a small minority crying into the void. It must be a socially a difficult choice to live with in today’s society. As an honest question: do some of you have residual problems with feeling sinful and guilty about your lifestyles? People really seem not to like people openly promoting absinence because they see it as condemning them as shameful. Why would you give a fuck unless you actually agreed with this on some level. There are plenty of movements who think drinking alcohol/eating pork/doing whatever is sinful. But people outside then, in my experience, just don’t care. But when it comes to having sex it’s suddenly a really big issue. People really care about other people affirming that being absinent is morally good, in that way that people don’t about being tee-total or anything else. I don’t get it. If these people think absinence is morally virtuous, so what?
nik, the thing I have a problem with is when you are guilted into abstinence by your father or your church, not when you choose it. And the other thing I have a big problem with is abstinence only ‘sex’ education that teaches that condoms don’t work and if you french kiss, you’ll get pregnant. I don’t think the people here have a problem with those who choose to be abstinent. They have a problem with those who want to force others into it as well. I am so tired, does this make sense?
No one is hostile to people who practice abstinence. I practiced abstinence for a pretty long time. I am hostile to campaigns like this one, which rely on guilt and misinformation. I write under the assumption that people have read this site before, and that if they haven’t, they’ll take five minutes to browse the archives before characterizing my opinion on a topic that I’ve written about dozens of times. If people are too lazy to take the time to browse the archives, and instead insist on giving me a two-bit psychoanalyzation (“do some of you have residual problems with feeling sinful and guilty about your lifestyles?”), I’m going to conclude that you’re a moron, and an intellectually lazy one at that. Nik, if you honestly want to claim that “sometimes this site is incredibly hostile to abstinence,” you might want to try actually reading the archives. You’ll note that we never go after individuals for choosing abstinence. We recognize that abstinence is a perfectly valid choice. We take issue with abstinence-only sex ed and campaigns which do level judgment and shame toward people who have sex. And Nik, you spend most of your time commenting here being disingenuous and pedantic. It’s getting incredibly irritating.
jill, i appreciate that you staked out a clear position. i’ve only started reading this site the past week and a half or so, and from what i’ve seen, your entries have been excellent. i just thought that there was some judgmental subtext in this post of yours, so i wanted to bring that up. thanks
Usually, I don’t think it’s a sin either. And when I do, it’s usually hotter. Win-win. I want to frame that and put it on my wall (above the bed, presumably).
Understandable, Fab. And to be clear, that wasn’t directed at you! It was more at Nik, who I know has been reading for a while. And for the record, I do agree that it can be really difficult to be abstinent, and assert yourself in a culture that does send really mixed sexual messages, and does assume that everyone has sex. So good on you for doing what you want!
I think, from a very virginal standpoint, that if I’m on a date and the guy pressures for me sex, no. I thought it was that simple. That’s exactly how it works. The next step is when the guy dumps you b/c you wouldn’t have sex. Also very simple. Then somebody tells you that you don’t have any right to date that guy and insist that he not have sex just because he is dating you and you don’t want to. It’s not an easy path if you want both to be celibate and and have dates.
Jill, I wasn’t responding to you – that’s a lot to read into a joke – rather the thread and the comments it has generated. I’m obviously don’t want to attach to you the views of some commentators. Sorry. As you say, I have been reading for a while, and I’m sure I remember plenty of similar threads to this one easily running to 100+ comments. There does seem to me to be an issue people have with the promotion of abstinance as virtuous because of the connotations it has in placing guilt on those who don’t agree. My rhetorical question did stink and wasn’t a nice way of putting this, and I regret that. Still, people promote – say – vegetarianism as virtuous and meat eating/wearing leather/wearing fur as wrong. Tactics are the same, but you don’t get the same response and I suspect it’s because one is about killing animals and the other about sex. Do you get the same reaction where other views are under discussion and people are saying other things are sinful? I don’t think the people here have a problem with those who choose to be abstinent. They have a problem with those who want to force others into it as well. That’s perfectly reasonable. Where is the line though? No one is hostile to people who practice abstinence. But if your seen to want to advocate it or say it’s a good thing people become suspicious(certainly in my circles). This is provocative, and I don’t want to get into any more trouble, but it does remind me a little of the way people used to view homosexuals. Okay, as long as keep it to yourself and don’t go around promoting it.
i guess i just really don’t understand why people feel they’re being judged for being abstinent as a personal choice. abstinence as a political requirement (no sex ed, lies about contraception, slut shaming, etc) is awful and i’ll never tolerate that. but people who choose abstinence before marriage are in a severe minority. why does it surprise you that almost every person you meet will not be okay with dating you since they don’t share your morality? what happens if you fall in love with someone who doesn’t believe in marriage? i guess it’s one of those things where you *won’t* fall in love with that person, and therefore it makes perfect sense that people who want to have pre-marital sex be keen on dating you either, since they don’t share that morality with you. in my personal life, i wouldn’t respect a man who was waiting for marriage because i don’t respect marriage and i don’t respect men who need a litmus test to make love with me.
but people who choose abstinence before marriage are in a severe minority. why does it surprise you that almost every person you meet will not be okay with dating you since they don’t share your morality? so now you’re asserting that it’s okay to judge people when they’re in the minority. cool.
just perusing through you previous posts rachel: “and the person that *is* willing to wait that long is probably a total douche themselves.” “when you take a person who refuses to have sex and then add a layer of self-righteousness, sprinkle on a bit of self-victimization, and top it off with a dollop of judgment,” “i wouldn’t respect a man who was waiting for marriage because i don’t respect marriage and i don’t respect men who need a litmus test to make love with me.” what’s especially interesting, is how you’re still able to demand respect from the other side with a straight face.
Rachel, I think that when people ask you what’s wrong with you for choosing abstinence, it’s very easy to feel judged for making that choice. You seem to be under some mistaken impression that when someone finds out you’ve chosen abstinence they respond with something like “OK, if that’s what works for you. I feel otherwise, so let’s just move on to other people.” That isn’t what happens to my abstinent friend, though. She gets asked what’s wrong with her and gets a ton of pressure from men to have premarital sex. How do you expect someone to read that? Like they’re not being judged? In what world would that make them feel like they’re not being judged?
As you say, I have been reading for a while, and I’m sure I remember plenty of similar threads to this one easily running to 100+ comments. There does seem to me to be an issue people have with the promotion of abstinance as virtuous because of the connotations it has in placing guilt on those who don’t agree. Thing is, abstinence is not presented as one choice among many good choices. It’s presented as the ONLY choice. Which necessarily entails denigrating those who choose not to be abstinent. Might be nice if the promoters of abstinence figured out that it’s quite possible to promote abstinence as a positive thing in and of itself without resorting to misinformation, lies, scare tactics and slut-punishing. My rhetorical question did stink and wasn’t a nice way of putting this, and I regret that. Still, people promote – say – vegetarianism as virtuous and meat eating/wearing leather/wearing fur as wrong. Tactics are the same, but you don’t get the same response and I suspect it’s because one is about killing animals and the other about sex. Do you get the same reaction where other views are under discussion and people are saying other things are sinful? Dude. Did you miss the vegan cupcakes thread?
so now you’re asserting that it’s okay to judge people when they’re in the minority. How is not wanting to date someone who won’t have sex with you “judging” them?
How is not wanting to date someone who won’t have sex with you “judging” them? if that was all she said, there would be no problem with that statement. but she is saying that since people who abstain are in the minority, they should be used to people not only rejecting them for dates (which is a legitimate claim) but they should also used to people not respecting their decision (which is obnoxious). her closing line about her not respecting someone who refrains from having sex, basically sums up my problem with her position. its hypocritical and condescending.
i gotta say, i’m coming across as more confrontational than i intended to here. it just seems to me that the culmination of rachel’s posts makes her come across as someone who is just as sanctimonious and judgmental as the people who are behind that ad. that’s unfortunate. but there’s really not much else to say about it.
Dude. Did you miss the vegan cupcakes thread? zuzu, why do you hate the meat-eaters!!!11!! And pilots!
Frumious- It’s not an easy path if you want both to be celibate and and have dates. Again, from my inexperienced standpoint, there’s a difference between being celibate and not having sex on a first date because the guy turns out to be an ass. I’m coming at it from a high school, no middle school, viewpoint, where the important thing is that *you* set *your* limits, and he has to respect them. If that means you’re a firgid lesbian the next day, much better that you stopped the date there, right?
fab, yeah, i’m kind of protesting too much. i do think that people that are abstinent and place such value on marriage are kind of silly and short sighted, as much as such choices ever affect me. sorry for misrepresenting myself. and lesley, i guess i can see that happening. the men i hang out with wouldn’t, i hope to god, go so far as to pressure to someone into sex for any reason, but i can see them having some frustrated conversations that would be entirely dismissive and judgmental. if it were to happen, though, i’d hope that they see it as similar to someone voting republican or something. one of those litmus tests where you won’t date someone like that, but it’s nothing personal.
Lesley, at 87, that sucks (to quote my mother, who’s been abstinent since the divorce in 99) green donkey dicks for your friend. I hope she sticks to her guns and ignores them – if they’re going to pester her, clearly they’re wrong for her, even if everything else matches. It means they don’t respect her boundaries for one, and it means that they can’t believe that she (or any other woman) does not want to have hot monkey sex (watch out for splinters!) with him at all times.
eh, maybe i’ve run into more self-righteous judgmental douchebags to be polite about it. if you’re not one of them, fine, but don’t expect to not be lumped into them. I think they call that “prejudice”. I don’t know why it’s ok for YOU to be prejudice against anyone who chooses to be abstinent, but not ok for them to do the same to your for choosing to have sex. Is the only answer to close-minded people is to be MORE close-minded?
What I find interesting about discussions about sexual choices is that there are really two extremes, both of which are mandated by the patriarchy and fit almost too neatly into the virgin/whore dichotomy. First there are those men who only want virgins, and by insisting on a woman who is a virgin, the man can assert a form of sexual control. Then there are the men who want instant and constant access to a woman’s sexuality, and by insisting on this access, the man can assert a form of sexual control. Either extreme is about patriarchal control, and neither is about love or respect. It seems to me that to react to either extreme is to let the patriarchy frame the debate. I recognize that it’s an uphill battle to reframe this debate on terms that give anything like equality to a woman’s desires, both sexually and in terms of her wanting to participate in an egalitarian relationship with a man (sorry for speaking so heteronormatively — this discussion does not seem to rate as much in the GLBT issue set), but it does not behoove feminism to be seen as reactive to patriarchal extremes. The question is not whether a woman has sex or doesn’t have sex. The question for a feminist should be whether a woman engages in behavior that suits her desires (be they for a hug, a blow job or PiV sex), or whether she feels pressured to engage in behavior that is inconsistent with her desires. Beyond that, it’s less productive. Now, none of that is to say that no one can recognize the challenges with wanting to enter the dating scene with a set of desires that is out of synch with the norm. People who do not want to have sex when sex is expected will find it hard to have a smooth social life. Choices have consequences. The value is in noting that the consequences stem from a fundamentally patriarchal view of sexuality. If a man dumps a woman for being a “prude” because she wants to wait until marriage, he may be more mainstream than a man who dumps a woman for being a “slut,” but he’s still operating under an entitled set of expectations about the degree to which he believes himself to be in control of access to female sexuality.
I’ll just repeat what I said at 96 and add this – If I want to go out with a guy at school, and I don’t want to have sex with him, and he wants to have sex with me and pesters me, what is wrong with saying, “Fuck off, asshole, I don’t want to have sex with you right now/ever.” I just don’t get it… if a date can’t respect your boundaries, then doesn’t that mean it’s not a good idea to further the relationship? Can someone help me out here? Completely virgin here. I can’t wear a damn tampon, they hurt. If I want to go out with a guy this fall, next spring, why do we have to have sex if I don’t want to? He has a hand, you know.
The question is in earnest. It drives my sister mad, my asking questions. Mom saw a doctor and had a complete pelvic exam. (Metal duck and all!) And I asked if it hurt. She said no, and I was like yeah, having 2 kids would make speccy the speculum nothing. My sister was like, “It hurts for you to put a tampon in. Why are you asking Mom about her exam? You know it hurts for you.” She’s taking more honors classes in high school than I ever got the chance to, and she can’t get it through her stupid head that asking questions is the only thing I can do right now – and the safest. What? She’d rather not know anything? Fine for her, leave the room – I’m curious and if the person doesn’t want to answer, she doesn’t have to. I first asked my mom real questions about sex in the car, on the way to a dr appointment, maybe my second GYN, ha. It was easy, we didn’t have to look at each other, I mean, asking your mom about sex? OMZG, how embarassing. But I’ve gotten less embarassed and asked her to her face how the hell an orgy would work. (She didn’t know) My sister was incredibly rude, sticking her fingers in her ears and shouting, “I’m not listening.” I asked her best friend (and a friend of the family, she’s comfortable here with or without my sister) who had a baby in December 2005, what it was like – sex, pregnancy, everything. Becky was outside. She didn’t say, “I’d rather not talk about it.” She answered my questions and later told my sister that it was so “random and weird”. I’m like, duh, I am the definition of random and weird. I want as much knowledge as possible, is that too much to ask?
But I’ve gotten less embarassed and asked her to her face how the hell an orgy would work. (She didn’t know) yeah. you should lose your virginity in orgy. not a bad idea at all.
# I’ll just repeat what I said at 96 and add this – If I want to go out with a guy at school, and I don’t want to have sex with him, and he wants to have sex with me and pesters me, what is wrong with saying, “Fuck off, asshole, I don’t want to have sex with you right now/ever.” Nothing is wrong with saying that. But I think if it’s someone you really like, you keep hoping they’ll stop pestering you. These things aren’t always rational. It’s easy in a hypothetical situation to plan out your reaction. Real life doesn’t always work that way, and your emotions can make things messy. Also, be prepared to leave if you do say something like that. There are men who can keep up the argument for a hell of a long time. I’ve had to go an hour sometimes before they finally stopped. And one time, he was lying on top of me, so I couldn’t move. I just don’t get it… if a date can’t respect your boundaries, then doesn’t that mean it’s not a good idea to further the relationship? Yes. But again, people aren’t always rational. Also, there can be legitimate differences on issues. Your date may be willing to respect your boundaries, but respecting your boundaries doesn’t necessarily include dating you again. It just means not harassing you about them. Can someone help me out here? Completely virgin here. I can’t wear a damn tampon, they hurt. If I want to go out with a guy this fall, next spring, why do we have to have sex if I don’t want to? He has a hand, you know. You don’t have to have sex if you don’t want to. You shouldn’t have sex if you don’t want to. But it’s likely at some point you’ll be faced with a choice – Either have sex or the relationship is over. Then you have to decide what’s more important to you. And as long as you’re really choosing based on what you want, not just because you’re afraid of him, that’s a legitimate choice to be faced with. Respect works both ways, and if it’s important to someone to be in a relationship that has sex, you have to be willing to let that person go and not pester them into waiting and waiting and waiting.
yeah. you should lose your virginity in orgy. I love how Fab skips over all the “I want as much knowledge as possible, is that too much to ask?” and jumps right to “You virgin whore!” as though there could be no reason to ask about something unless you want to do it*. How, exactly, would sword-swallowing work? doesn’t translate into “I’m about to run right out and eat some blades.” I guess this is the mindset behind abstinence-only ed, eh? *Or, more specifically, there could be no reason for a woman to seek knowledge unless she intends to use it for teh eevil. Apple, anyone?
Hey Kaitlyn, They don’t slide a speculum in without lubricating it first. It’s a little uncomfortable, but I wouldn’t say it HURTS. If you don’t want to have sex, don’t have sex. If you’re ready, go ahead. But don’t have sex that you don’t want because the relationship might be over otherwise. And don’t discount sex out of hand, you know?
defenestrated – just in case you still don’t get it: kaitlyn said “orgy” when i’m pretty sure she meant “orgasm”. now read my response again. hair trigger much?
“kaitlyn said “orgy” when i’m pretty sure she meant “orgasm”.” Except that orgasm doesn’t really parse in that sentence, whereas orgy does.
But it’s not. It’s you making fun of Kaitlyn’s assumed use of the wrong word. Which isn’t really funny so much as snotty and condescending.
Fab Says: April 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pm live a little. Can I borrow a rule of thumb from Pandagon and call “bored”? Hey Kaitlyn – be sure to ask for the smaller speculum; sometimes my doctor thinks to use it, sometimes not, but for a small vagina (whether due to intact hymenage or overall person-size) they can make a world of difference.
p.s.: I guess this is the mindset behind abstinence-only ed, eh? ~defenestrated i never said or implied that i believe in abstinence-only ed. i don’t. please don’t put words in my mouth.
I’ve only had speccy the speculum used a couple times, I screamed – and it was the smallest one. They’re like, most women have already had sex, so it doesn’t hurt. And I didn’t ask her about orgasms, I asked her about orgies – you know, more than 2 people having sex – I couldn’t figure out how it would work. She used to have “The Joy of Sex” in her bedroom, but now that I want to read it – and not just to see dirty pictures – it’s gone. My male GYN only does manual exams, and they still hurt at the point of entry, but it only hurts when something’s in there. I understand how to achieve a female orgasm – stimulate the clitoris. I don’t understand how an orgy works. I don’t see how the two can be interchanged in my question, thank you for mocking me. And I have asked my mom about achieveing orgasm by yourself, then we got into a discussion on why guys just know how to pleasure themselves and we don’t, and how that sucks the suck out of suck. Thanks for all the words on dating – it sounded like you’re on the first date, he wants sex, you say no, you’re life is over. Thank you for not mocking me. 🙂 How the hell will I learn if I don’t ask as many questions of as many people as possible? At least I won’t have sex the first time and be completely shocked at the pain – according to the two people I’ve felt comfortable enough asking, it hurts the first few times. I’m glad I know that ahead of time.
i wasnt mocking you. it was an attempt at a joke, that somehow didnt translate well written down. i take the blame for that part.
Settle down there, Fab. Kaitlyn, let’s throw the question to the peanut gallery. Watch for a post on some of your non-orgy related questions. As for orgies, it depends. It might involve taking turns, it might involve various couples in the same room having sex at the same time, it might involve double penetration of some kind or mutual masturbation.
Thanks zu. I thought this forum, this topic would be a good place to ask questions like that – I’m continually reading your archives, and I’ve seen similar open comments, and I think the anonynimity of a webssite makes people more comfortable answering questions and asking ones you would never ask face to face. The orgy question wasn’t even for you, it was just a an example of my forever curious nature. To use one of the stay abstinent or die crowd, you wouldn’t hop in a car without knowing *something* about what you’re about to do.
Again, from my inexperienced standpoint, there’s a difference between being celibate and not having sex on a first date because the guy turns out to be an ass. Who said first date? Not me. You can get dumped on the 20th date for not having sex, or the 100th (I personally have never made it to the 100th date with someone I wasn’t having sex with, but YMMV). It saves a lot time if you tell them on the first date, or even before the first date, that you are celibate. Think of it as a screening process. Then you don’t have to go through the emotional investment of 20 (or 100) dates, and you don’t have to listen to your friends and complete strangers on blogs telling you “Well what did you expect? Of course no one wants to date a celibate person! You’re a minority!” Let me tell you, few things hurt like looking for post-break-up sympathy and being told you deserved it. It’s worse than the actual break-up. — Re: specula: Women come in a variety of sizes just like men do. Pain from a speculum isn’t just about virginity, it’s also about the care taken by the doctor and the size of the speculum with respect to the size of your insides. Specula also come in a variety of sizes. If it really hurts, you can tell the doctor or nurse beforehand how much it hurts and ask if they have a pediatric speculum available. When and if you make the decision to have PIV (penis in vagina) sex, you might consider purchasing a small diameter dildo to experiment with. It’ll give you a chance to test your physical limits in a situation that you can control entirely with nobody’s feelings on the line. If money is an issue, try vegetables. Use a condom because you DO NOT want it breaking and getting stuck inside you.
I understand how to achieve a female orgasm – stimulate the clitoris. Yeah, usually. There are women who orgasm from PIV sex alone, or from anal sex, or even while giving blow-jobs. There are also women who can’t stand direct clitoral stimulation. Just letting you know so that you are not too surprised if you find out that you are one of these women.
This is the kind of website that I just feel compelled to answer back at in my head. It feels good to have a clear conscience – unclouded by religious dogma about the evils of sex. It feels good to accomplish my goals – including my goal of spreading educated rational notions about sex. It feels good to have 100% protection – and access to safe, affordable birth control and legal abortion. It feels good that my boyfriend loves me for more than just my body – and that he loves my body too, and that we are not ashamed of our bodies in any way. It feels good to not need a babysitter on a friday night – because I have access to birth control and, should I ever need one, safe, legal abortion. It feels good to have a good reputation – because my reputation is about so much more than what I’ve done in bed and with whom. It feels good to be honest with my parents – because I’m not ashamed of my life in any way, so what would I lie to them about? It feels good to have a healthy marriage – especially if you married someone who respects your sexuality and is fun in bed, I bet. It feels good to be part of the majority – …actually, on that one, I have to just straight up completely disagree, because the majority of the country seems to entertain unfortunate religion-and-shame-tinged ideas about sex and their bodies. I feel sorry for the majority, but not for the people who made this ad. Those people, I just want to kick in the nuts, for their pathetic attempt to shame women instead of empower and educate them.
“It feels good to have a good reputation – because my reputation is about so much more than what I’ve done in bed and with whom.” i’m okay with a reputation based on what i’ve done in bed ……… :p
“If money is an issue, try vegetables. Use a condom because you DO NOT want it breaking and getting stuck inside you.” Next GYN visit – “No blood in the vaginal vault, that’s good, is that a carrot?” hahahahaha, I kill me.
Kaitlyn – some women have an abnormally narrow vaginal canal (is it a canal or a passage? Were there martian vaginal canals? Has anyone checked?) which makes things like tampons and sex painful, for which there are operations and treatments if you want such a thing however I’m gonna throw AVEN (Asexuality Visibility and Education Network) at you because some asexual women do report finding any sort of vaginal penetration painful, and with all the talk of abstinence someone should probably point out that it’s perfectly normal to want romantic relationships that are not actually sexual (and which are also not platonic).
Thanks for that R Mildred. I have wondered if I’m a just a straight, asexual woman. Why? My mom hasn’t had sex (that I know of) since Christmas 1998. Maybe she has had it with her on again/off again boyfriend (they’re off b/c she wasn’t at home when he drove past the house – she was taking Becky to her friend’s. That was a couple years ago.) So, sorry for the TMI, but she hasn’t had sex, maybe her libido’s dropped as she’s aged, but she doesn’t seem to want it. I asked about asexuality, because it seemed she was, so maybe that explained my urges… or lack thereof. I definitely think it is narrow. My finger fits in fine (vaginal valium) but anything else and I scream. My mom had to put in my first tampon, and it hurt and I felt a pressure the whole time. In addition to the not caring about sex – I notice that so-and-so’s cute, but I don’t want to have sex with him, I just want to look at him or something – which can make you a pariah, there’s also the pad thing! They’re compared to diapers in commercials, but I can’t wear anything but! Even though they irritate my skin, I need to know what color and how much is coming out, as opposed to staying in. (Clean pad, bloody toilet paper.) I do feel like a freak, and I’m afraid to look for these things, because when I type in my full name, I get a lot of things about porn stars, so if I actually looked up ‘teenage sexuality’ on google, I can’t imagine the filth I’d have to wade through.
Frumious, at 120, I realize that it’s not have sex on the first date or you’re a prude. But it came across like that – if you don’t have sex with the person you’re dating, because you’re not ready to have sex with him or her yet, something seems wrong. Plus, I spend a lot of time irrational. And I can’t thank everyone enough for answering as honestly as possible.
there are people who are asexual and remain that way for a good portion of their lives. i didn’t notice you mentioning your age here, but it’s entirely possible that you’re simply growing into your sexuality.
No fucking shit fab. Of course I’m growing into it! Whether you saw my age or not, it’s pretty damn obvious I haven’t been alive for two decades.
how exactly did my post warrant that kind of hostile response? you seemed to have been confused about why you didn’t have sexual feelings. i said: a) there are people who are in fact asexual, but: b) i wouldn’t be too concerned about that since you’re still maturing sexually. thanks for the reply though.
Fab, maybe you just don’t translate well in posts. The jokes definitely don’t, you know? Kaitlyn, I can’t really be sure if you’re asexual or not, but I can share my personal experiences. I’m 22, and I’d never kissed anyone until I started university, four months short of 18. After the first kiss, I did a lot of things very quickly with a number of guys, but I’ve settled into a monogamous relationship now. We’ve been together almost two years, and having sex with him just feels like one of a range of fun, intimate things that we do. I was interested in sex as a teenager, but I wasn’t really interested in having sex with any of my peers, even when I thought they were cute. I think it played into the way I was raised, and I was also afraid of becoming distracted and “all wrapped up in a boy.” A few other things: I never used tampons until university, and I still don’t always use them. Don’t believe everything an ad tells you, eh? Just wear whatever you’re comfortable with. I find that even when I use a tampon, I often have to wear a pad as back-up anyway. I haven’t used the Always brand in years, but I remember that it had that dry-weave stuff that used to irritate me. I switched to Stayfree, because the pads are just smooth and cottony on top, and the irritation went away. There are reusable pads on the market that don’t have fragrances and bleach and stuff in them, but I’m not sure how accessible they would be to you. I have a very narrow vagina too. My own finger fit fine when I was a teenager, but the first time a guy did it to me with just one finger… I was sore for days afterwards. I don’t get sore from fingering (with one or two fingers) anymore, but I do still get sore from sex. I’m ok with that, but you might not be, and it’s totally your decision to make. Are you nervous about foreign objects going in there? It might just be a matter of relaxing. But definitely, the next time you go to the doctor, mention it to him/her. They’re technically required to answer your questions if time allows, even if they look all annoyed.
pl – Thanks for sharing. It’s always nice to know you’re not alone when it comes to your vagina and sexuality – you feel you are, who talks about the narrowness besides evil ER docs who use a speculum and have a clean catch urine thing in my urethra – that REALLY makes you have to pee! But I don’t think I’ll ask him yet, but I’ll keep everything I see here and at the sites mentioned in mind when I finally do. I was taking valium vaginally – I had, to quote someone who wasn’t whacked on pain pills at the message board I used to post at, “a vagina that didn’t give a fuck.” Friday, I’m getting a uterine nerve block, which is a shot to the tenderest spot in my pelvic/abdominal cavity! But if it works, no more pain pills!!!!!!
Fab – you don’t know me, I don’t know you. All I know of you is your assumption (to me and everyone else) that I don’t know the difference between an orgy and an orgasm and that I forgot a conversation about *sex* with my *mother*. So we got off on the wrong foot.