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Leave the morals at the border

The right-wing version of “morality” never fails to boggle the mind — and it’s thoroughly depressing when the highest court in our country continues to capitulate to their blatant violations of international law and basic human rights norms (not to mention their stomping all over the Constitution).

Onward Bush’s soldiers, torture as ye may, but do it in Guantanamo, and not in the USA.

On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court turned down the habeas corpus plea of a Canadian national, captured in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old, because the possible deprivation of his human rights was not conducted on “U.S. soil.” The court, with three judges dissenting, cited a law passed by the Republican-controlled Congress last year that the fate of Guantanamo prisoners will be determined by secret military tribunals outside the purview of U.S. courts.

There are about 380 prisoners at Guantanamo. A grand total of 10 have been charged with a crime.

Guantanamo is obviously problematic for the international standards it sets, and because Bush officials use it as an excuse to forgo basic U.S. law and deny prisoners their Due Process and general Constitutional rights. But Guantanamo is also embarrassing because it demonstrates a profound lack of faith in our own criminal justice system and our intelligence agencies. If the prisoners being held at Guantanamo are as thoroughly guilty and dangerous as the Bush administration asserts, shouldn’t they be tried for their crimes by a jury of American citizens? Shouldn’t they at least be charged with something? What, exactly, is the problem with our justice system that makes the Bush administration refuse to use it in dealing with supposed terrorists?

Despite all the right-wing flag-humping, Guantanamo strikes me as pretty unpatriotic.


15 thoughts on Leave the morals at the border

  1. Just to pre-empt the usual howls, here’s the new Defense Secretary on Guantanamo:

    Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates was right when he told a congressional hearing last week that “there is a taint” about Guantanamo and that trials there “lack credibility” in “the international community.” Mr. Gates said he’d like to see Guantanamo closed and Congress pass new legislation to govern those prisoners who must still be held.

    Apparently, he’s been overridden by the blinkered losers (Cheney, Gonzales) who are far too invested in the failure’s continuation.

  2. Norbiz, the WaPo neglected to mention that Sec. Gates went on to say in that same testimony that the government needed to find a way to “address the concerns about some of these people who really need to be incarcerated forever, but that doesn’t get them involved in a judicial system where there is the potential of them being released.”

    So no, i don’t really think he’s been overridden. The only possible conflict between the SecDef and the blinkered losers might be where the prisoners will be held indefinitely, but they seem to agree on everything else.

    Byeargh.

  3. A few days ago, I heard part of a local radio broadcast. The DJ’s were talking about the 15 British Marines, and how they’d almost certainly been tortured. So, these guys are sitting around, talking about various ways these people could’ve been tortured, and how their treatment was a great reason to go to war with Iran. The blatant irony sailed by unimpeded.

  4. A few days ago, I heard part of a local radio broadcast. The DJ’s were talking about the 15 British Marines, and how they’d almost certainly been tortured. So, these guys are sitting around, talking about various ways these people could’ve been tortured, and how their treatment was a great reason to go to war with Iran. The blatant irony sailed by unimpeded.

    It’s only ironic if there is an equivalence there, and there isn’t. Those Marines were in uniform in a military vessel, and not engaged in hostile action. There is a legal difference between a uniformed military member and an unlawful combatant. One is entitled to legal protection, the other is not. Not to excuse torture, just to say there is a difference between our holding people at gitmo and Iran snatching British service members.

  5. But Guantanamo is also embarrassing because it demonstrates a profound lack of faith in our own criminal justice system and our intelligence agencies.

    Guano Bay has nothing to do with criminal justice, any more than invading Iraq had anything to do with terrorism.

    BushCo knew damn well that they wanted to sidestep both due process as well as international conventions surrounding POW’s, so they created a legal limbo zone – a curtain behind which they can engage in questionable, if not illegal, acts with theoretical impunity.

    It will be after 2008 when the curtain can be pulled back on that, and we get to see just how vile the neoCons have been towards the prisoners held there.

    (I have my suspicions as to what will be found…)

  6. I thought we still had those torture time shares in teh syrian prisons that we shared with HAMAS?

  7. Grog, I just don’t have the same faith you do. Come January 20, 2009, there is no guarantee at all that whoever the next president is will have any strong need to throw open the Gitmo curtain and give up on the “unitary executive” stuff.

    I suspect strongly those powers might just be pushed out of the spotlight and reserved for use “in case of emergencies”.

    That’s the real danger here. Just because one president behaves, doesn’t mean the one after that will be decent. Once these power shifts become entrenched, it becomes very difficult to eliminate them…

  8. so they created a legal limbo zone

    Actually it was bill clinton’s little prison away from laws he had built to detain HIV+ haitian refugees.

    Bush some how made it infinitely worse, but he unfortunately didn’t create the thing – though he would have if it hadn’t already existed.

  9. A few days ago, I heard part of a local radio broadcast. The DJ’s were talking about the 15 British Marines, and how they’d almost certainly been tortured.

    I have to admit, I would be pretty amazed if the British sailors were tortured. Not that the Iranian government is a bunch of wonderful guys who would never dream of torturing anyone, but it would put them in a much weaker position to torture prisoners when trying to avoid a war, which I think they’re trying to do. I think they’re much better off returning the sailors safe and sound.

    If they were American sailors, I think there would be a higher chance of torture happening, but Iran would really, really rather stay on Britain’s good side since they’re the only European country that Bush might possibly listen to.

  10. I have to admit, I would be pretty amazed if the British sailors were tortured.

    well they didn’t torture the last lot of british seamen they captured a few years ago – I think Iran is trying to reorganise the Iran-Iraq sea border like they did the iran-iraq land border, simply by declaring that the Iran border is slightly further away from iran than it is according to the various international treaties that define it, and then ignoring anyone who tries to contradict them (the iran president is really our shrub away from home, what he lacks in incompetence, he makes up for in facial hair).

    One is entitled to legal protection, the other is not.

    Actualy both are as the GCs doesn’t recognise the unlawful combatant status, (and as nuremburg was a test trial for – a nation merely declaring itself somehow above or unconstrained by the GCs is still subject to the laws set forth in them, unless the sadistic fiends who sponsored torture and mass murder are the far right friends of reagan or thatcher) and we haven’t actually bothered proving that they were combatants of any kind – most weren’t, and in fact many have been released already after being tortured.

    And unarmed non-combatants are definately protected by the GCs.

  11. But Guantanamo is also embarrassing because it demonstrates a profound lack of faith in our own criminal justice system and our intelligence agencies. If the prisoners being held at Guantanamo are as thoroughly guilty and dangerous as the Bush administration asserts, shouldn’t they be tried for their crimes by a jury of American citizens? Shouldn’t they at least be charged with something? What, exactly, is the problem with our justice system that makes the Bush administration refuse to use it in dealing with supposed terrorists?

    Prisoners are being held without trial and are denied habeas corpus. Most of them are kidnapped by the CIA and who knows what torture is inflicted upon them.

    We are a land of the free, aren’t we?

  12. The neo-cons got righteously angered after 9/11 and even most of the liberal crew went along with creaming Afganhastan.

    Then we got a few Taliban captives and they all pointed and shouted, “What do we do with these guys?”

    From there it went so far downhill we had to climb back up to be level with our enemy. Certainly a blight on American history, and cause for the rest of the world to shake their heads in disbelief.

  13. From there it went so far downhill we had to climb back up to be level with our enemy.

    Had to? I’d say have to – i.e. I’m just hoping we stop digging sometime soon. Starting the climb back up is a whole nother matter.

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