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Campus Exposure



Who needs equality when you have legs like these?

Apparently every article I read today is going to be about sex, the mainstreaming of pornography, and the ongoing attempt to subjugate women as much as possible while telling us that we want it (a national past time, apparently). So, onto Campus Exposure, an expose of college sex mags.

The article is actually pretty good, and while I’m kind of tempted to just lather, rinse and repeat, I think that some of these magazines have the potential to be decent. The ones which primarily involve naked chicks simulating intercourse? Not so great, and definitely not so new. But there are a few which are making attempts to normalize conversations about sex and dismantle traditional gender norms. There’s a difference between open conversations about sexuality and pornography. And there’s a difference between sexual imagery and pornography, although the two seem to be blending together more than moving apart. But unfortunately, even the magazines which started out with great intentions and a solid conceptual framework — like Harvard’s H-Bomb — have devolved into standard, uncreative and certainly not feminist stereotypes and ideas.

And then there are the college sex magazines which are entirely uncreative and intellectually lazy, and have been from the beginning — like Boink, the mag that, naturally, gets the most coverage in the article, and is apparently even popular with the Boston University Women’s Center:

What really stood out is that there were male students in it,” Heather Foley, 21, now president of B.U.W.C., which devoted a meeting to discussing the issue, said in a phone interview. “Because there were men in it, and gay men, under the same cover, it was sort of alternative. It kind of equalized it: gay men could look at it, women could look at it, and that was great. Women as objects, men as objects.”

Now we’re all objects! Isn’t equality grand?

On a laptop computer, Vandenberg, 20, showed a few of the pictures she is planning to publish in the next edition of H Bomb, which will be online only for financial reasons. “Quite tame,” she said. In one, female Harvard science majors peered earnestly at test tubes, wearing lab coats opened to expose black lacy bras and panties, as in the old Maidenform advertisements. It was intended, she said, as a comment on the brouhaha that ensued after Lawrence Summers, Harvard’s former president, publicly remarked that genetics might account for why women are still a minority in the sciences. “I really don’t think he said much wrong,” said Vandenberg, who is pursuing a bachelor’s degree in biological anthropology. “I’m not a feminist. Feminism has this premise that men and women are equal, and I have a more biological view of things. I don’t think men and women are equal at all. I think we’re different, and what’s wrong with that?”

Clearly, absolutely nothing. There is no problem with an assumption of inherent inequality that is biologically fixed. It’s not like biological justifications have been used to keep women out of Harvard or anything. I’d imagine that there’s nothing female scientists want more than to be told that (a) their brains just aren’t wired to be as smart as men, but being different is ok, and (b) men are more than happy to think of the black lacy bras they’re wearing under their lab coats rather than, say, their accomplishments in the lab.

Somewhere in there a few women also mention that they’re proud of their bodies because they don’t have saggy tits or extra weight on them. Astonishing progressivism, no?

I’m disappointed that the supposed best and brightest undergraduates can’t do any better than recycling tired stereotypes and tried-and-true porno standards in their magazines. I’m not surprised, but I still wish that they could do better.


63 thoughts on Campus Exposure

  1. “I’m not a feminist. Feminism has this premise that men and women are equal, and I have a more biological view of things. I don’t think men and women are equal at all. I think we’re different, and what’s wrong with that?”

    I’m not usually one to bash random people online, but…what a fucking idiot. Equality and biological difference? Hmm, maybe those are separate concepts??

  2. “I’m not a feminist. Feminism has this premise that men and women are equal, and I have a more biological view of things. I don’t think men and women are equal at all. I think we’re different, and what’s wrong with that?”

    Of course feminists don’t think that men and women are different. We all think men are capable of childbirth too, right?

    What? Oh, right. I’m also disappointed that the supposed best and brightest undergrads can’t grasp the very simple concept that equal != the same, and that being different is not proof of inherent inequality.

  3. …and Lesley Plum said it better that I could.

    I’m reminded of something Amanda Marcotte said once (pardon me, a paraphrase, can’t find the post): it’s not that men and women aren’t different, it’s just that the difference isn’t that men are human and women aren’t.

  4. Damn, Jill, what do you put in your water?

    If you want to be horrified and outraged, ask a female scientist, especially one of the boomer generation, what kind of hardships their innate differences have caused them in their careers.

    A trivial point: the Boink magazine appears to be at Boston University, not Boston College. Why do you hate Catholics, Jill?

  5. Now we’re all objects! Isn’t equality grand?

    Heh. Well. I think that… I don’t know, I haven’t seen this magazine, but I doubt they really mean that men are objects in the same sense that women are in traditional porn. I mean, that just doesn’t happen!

  6. I don’t think men and women are equal at all. I think we’re different, and what’s wrong with that

    What’s wrong with that? As an opinion, nothing in particular, apart from not being very original. No one is required to believe any given thing. As a scientific statement? You don’t have the slightest shred of evidence to back your assertion* and there is signficant evidence that the assertion is wrong. That makes the assertion unscientific and inconsistent with observed reality. Dump the hypothesis and go find one that works.

    *Assuming the difference under discussion is brain differences. Yes, some people have mullerian inhibiting factor and others have inducible prolactin surges. But the vaunted “male” versus “female” brain differences have never shown to have any basis in reality not explicable by cultural conditioning. Indeed, cultural conditioning is so pervasive that if any average differences do exist they will be almost impossible to distinguish through the “noise”.

  7. “I really don’t think he said much wrong,” said Vandenberg, who is pursuing a bachelor’s degree in biological anthropology. “I’m not a feminist. Feminism has this premise that men and women are equal, and I have a more biological view of things. I don’t think men and women are equal at all. I think we’re different, and what’s wrong with that?”

    Okay, that’s kind of scary. He’s going into anthropology with the fixed idea that men and women are irretrievably different from one another?

    And somebody needs to buy this boy a dictionary so he can look up what “equal” actually means outside of math class.

  8. What’s wrong with that? As an opinion, nothing in particular, apart from not being very original. No one is required to believe any given thing. As a scientific statement? You don’t have the slightest shred of evidence to back your assertion* and there is signficant evidence that the assertion is wrong. That makes the assertion unscientific and inconsistent with observed reality. Dump the hypothesis and go find one that works.

    *Assuming the difference under discussion is brain differences. Yes, some people have mullerian inhibiting factor and others have inducible prolactin surges. But the vaunted “male” versus “female” brain differences have never shown to have any basis in reality not explicable by cultural conditioning. Indeed, cultural conditioning is so pervasive that if any average differences do exist they will be almost impossible to distinguish through the “noise”.

    Except that that’s not true. There are biological differences between men and women that are simply not explicable by cultural conditioning. Aggression, deviance, and risk-taking behavior are all, at the very least, two-humped bell curves. There are reasons that patriarchy is a global system, that the majority of criminals are men, and that the vast majority of violent criminals are men: cultural conditioning cannot explain a phenomenon that spans every culture on Earth.

    — ACS

  9. Pssst- Mnemosyne, Vandenberg is a woman.

    =D

    Dude, that’s even more scary. I don’t think I’m going to be able to sleep tonight.

  10. What’s wrong with that? As an opinion, nothing in particular, apart from not being very original.

    I’m not sure I agree with that, because her wording is bizarre. If Vandenberg had said she didn’t believe that men and women are the same, that would be one thing. But she’s contrasting equal with different, and that is a breeding ground for disadvantaging people on assumed biological differences.

    It’s a common mistake that feminists want assured equality of outcome. Maybe some minute, microscopic percentage do, although I’ve yet to meet one. What we want is equality of access, and despite what many non-feminists believe, that doesn’t exist yet. Maybe it’s true that men are inherently more likely to fall on the tails of the normal distribution when it comes to scientific aptitude. However, for us to believe that explains the gender gap in science, we’d have to believe that the vast majority of male scientists fall on the upper tail and that the vast majority of women who wanted to become a scientist but couldn’t didn’t. There is no evidence of that, and it’s just highly unlikely anyway.

  11. Boy, Harvard’s standards aren’t as high as I thought. How can a scientist (or someone who wants to be) not understand that political/social equality=!physiological sameness??? Not to mention the profound ignorance about the history of women, whose feminist struggles allowed her to even BE at Harvard!! Blood boiling…

    WTF, Harvard? Is she a legacy, or is your selection process severely lacking these days? How embarrassing.

  12. WTF, Harvard? Is she a legacy, or is your selection process severely lacking these days? How embarrassing.

    It’s not Harvard. It’s anthropology. The entire discipline has turned into an eternal slap-fight between people who believe a cornfield is a text and people who believe a religion is a subsistence structure. Bio-anth people are generally on side #2.

    — ACS

  13. ACS, I’m not close enough to the disclipline to know whether I agree with you, but that was so funny I’m glad I didn’t have a mouthful of coffee when I read it.

  14. people who believe a cornfield is a text and people who believe a religion is a subsistence structure. – ACS

    So what would anthropologists think of a culture in which religion was clearly a subsistence structure and the religion was based on a sacred text writ large using a carefully laid out field of corn?

  15. I’m disappointed, but not surprised. Harvard undergrads are surprisingly conservative, as a rule, and a lot of the women feel they need to show how hip and cool and “independent” they are by rejecting feminism and many of its claims about gender equality/inequality. (Ironic, isn’t it, that they think they’re proving their independence by rejecting feminism.)

  16. There are biological differences between men and women that are simply not explicable by cultural conditioning. Aggression, deviance, and risk-taking behavior are all, at the very least, two-humped bell curves.

    Citations? How do you determine that a behavior is biologically (genetically) based? Maybe, for example, patriarchy is a world wide system because it is descended from a single, very aggressive but very successful culture which happened to be male dominated?

  17. A little off topic, but: Is it legal to refuse someone a job because you think they’re ugly, when the job has nothing to do with beauty? Because I’m pretty sure that happened to me. (The job was secretary, naturally.)

  18. Harvard’s standards aren’t as high as I thought.

    As a U of Chicago graduate, let me just say that Harvard’s standards are LOW. All those legacy students.

  19. A little off topic, but: Is it legal to refuse someone a job because you think they’re ugly, when the job has nothing to do with beauty? Because I’m pretty sure that happened to me. (The job was secretary, naturally.)

    IANAL, but as I recall from the training we had to take as hiring managers, that is not illegal, unless your state has some very restrictive laws re: employment discrimination. IIRC, federally protected classes are race, gender, age, and physical disability. In the state I work in, sexual orientation is also a protected class. But those were the only protected classes.

  20. Citations? How do you determine that a behavior is biologically (genetically) based?

    It’s impossible to strip out culture from humans. Culture is what we do; it’s how we adapt. Culture has been such an effective adaptive mechanism that hard-wiring behaviors is clearly maladaptive: it constrains the human ability to adapt through culture. I’m not saying that we’re robots programmed by our genes, unable to move beyond the role that our heritage has destined for us. I’m saying that ignoring the fact that deviance and violence are fundamentally male problems, and that they are male problems everywhere in the world, amongst all peoples does not solve the problem of male violence.

    In our closest relatives — both chimpanzees and bonobos — males use violence more frequently than females. In the vast majority of mammalian species, males use violence more frequently than females. There exists a profound difference in the use of aggression in species from which we’re descended. There exists a profound difference in the use of aggression in our own species; one which exists across cultures, amongst all men.

    This does not absolve men of the responsibility for solving the problem of our own violence. In my own life, it means that I must think much harder about my use of aggression — because I recognize that I am not a disembodied soul able to make perfectly rational decisions in the heat of anger. I also possess a body and a mind that do not always react as I feel they should react — but I am still responsible for those reactions. I feel the same way about everybody else.

    Maybe, for example, patriarchy is a world wide system because it is descended from a single, very aggressive but very successful culture which happened to be male dominated?

    Because this doesn’t fit the evidence. Though several Central Asian migrations into Europe have fit that sort of model — a large, aggressive pastoralist society (effectively) committing genocide against the agriculturalist societies that previously occupied Europe, there’s no evidence of any such activity in the Americas, in Africa, or throughout most of Asia (excluding the Indian subcontinent).

    If the model you propose existed, you would be able to trace all human language to a common root at about the time at which humans became capable of genocide and organized warfare — about six to eight thousand years ago. This isn’t the case.

    Furthermore, if there was no link between patriarchy and human biology, one would expect to find — somewhere, sometime — a woman-dominated society that mirrors, or at least bears some similarity to, the patriarchy that exists elsewhere in the world. As far as anthropologists, even feminist anthropologists, can determine, no such society has ever existed.

    — ACS

  21. Sucks. 🙁

    It’s no consolation but, trust me, an office where the main criterion for assistants is how hot they are is not an office you want to work in. And I don’t even mean from a sexual harrassment POV. I mean there would be a lot of demands for you to mommy your (male, of course) boss and a lot of rage when you don’t defer to him at every turn. Not to mention the constant disparagement of what is actually a very difficult job (and one I’m doing myself right now) because, well, you were hired to be pretty, so any attempt at actually doing the job you were hired for would only lead to mockery and disrespect.

    You’re better off at an office where you’re judged by the quality of your work. But that goes without saying, yes?

  22. There are biological differences between men and women that are simply not explicable by cultural conditioning.

    This is my understanding as well. There are biological differences. Most are as you describe: A two-humped bell curve. And, on most measures, both humps are so close together that the variance from their means is much, much greater than any slight difference between the means.

    Imagine that there was a 1,000 question test that measured spacial rotation skills. Men might get an average score of 600 while women might average 590. The variation around these means would be huge, say 300. If you performed a rigorous statistical test, you would find that the differences are inconsequential, though they do exist. But, to repeat, they are, in reality, inconsequential.

    Although, I do wonder if there are some measurably large differences:

    Aggression, deviance, and risk-taking behavior are all, at the very least, two-humped bell curves.

    I don’t know if this is true or not, though it would explain the rather ruthless domination of almost all cultures by males throughout history. Dunno.

  23. Furthermore, if there was no link between patriarchy and human biology, one would expect to find — somewhere, sometime — a woman-dominated society that mirrors, or at least bears some similarity to, the patriarchy that exists elsewhere in the world.

    That link is reproduction, and it’s being severed as we speak.

  24. My conclusion after the bajillion sociology classes I took was that culture can be responsible for trends like men being more violent than women.

    The other day, I was being “rude” to a guy who IMed me–meaning, I wouldn’t do every little thing he asked of me–and he concluded I was not female because “women are always nice and polite.” Well, we’re not. But maybe 100 or even 50 years ago, we would be. And we’re still pressured to be. Good girls don’t do this, women don’t do that, and so we’re repressing our anger the way men are taught to repress their “softer” emotions. We’ve gendered feelings to a point where there are “masculine” emotions (like getting pissed off, which women should never do) and “feminine” emotions (like being sad). It’s now how we ARE, but how we’re told to be and are sometimes forced to be.

    Certainly, men taking power isn’t “proof” that men are natural leaders. It may be “proof” that when women have to sit at home raising child after child that it’s harder to take up leadership roles or take charge of things.

    There are some biological differences that make things easier in general for women than for men and vise versa, like when you see the final trial in Survivor has to do with balance, and you figure a woman will win it, whereas if it requires upper body strength, it will probably go to a man. But those aren’t even 100%.

    And why even bother looking at this stuff? The point isn’t that we’re biologically the same or that we’ll all use the same bathroom. Exterminating sexism doesn’t mean I get a penis and some guy grows a vag. It just means that we’ll be treated as equals in society, or at least be discriminated against for something we can help, like being a slob or a dumbass rather than the genitals we were born with.

  25. Though several Central Asian migrations into Europe have fit that sort of model — a large, aggressive pastoralist society (effectively) committing genocide against the agriculturalist societies that previously occupied Europe, there’s no evidence of any such activity in the Americas

    This is getting severely off topic, but what about the Navajo invasion of the southwest? Or the Aztec invasion of Mexico? Both displaced previous societies (the Anazasi in the southwestern US, multiple tribes in Mexico). I’m not familiar enough with Africa to even make a vague suggestion of its history, but didn’t Asia have several cultures sweep through?

    If the model you propose existed, you would be able to trace all human language to a common root at about the time at which humans became capable of genocide and organized warfare — about six to eight thousand years ago.

    People only got into organized warfare 6-8K years ago. That seems…recent. Since some groups of humans have (until very recently) been isolated from others for longer than that (ie Americans versus European/Asians), a single culture couldn’t have spread through genocide and warfare. (Do you have any references for the 6-8K year statistic? I’m not doubting you, just curious.)

    Still, all people come from a single root culture. Who’s to say that that culture couldn’t have fallen out either direction (male or female aggressive)? Other primates’ behavior is some evidence, but not completely convincing: how many other primates use the internet? (That is, there are obvious differences between humans and other primates, who is to say that this isn’t one of them?)

    Incidently, I think that you’re probably right. But I also grew up in a patriarchal culture and that presumably affected my thinking on the subject. Again, the actual biological evidence is scanty at best. For example, though average differences between the anatomy of the male and female brain are seen (ie men’s brains are larger but women’s are a larger percentage of body mass, men’s corpus collusums are bigger, women’s more complex, etc.), the differences are small and the overlap is great. And sex hormones (ie estrogen, progestrone, testosterone) do cross the blood-brain barrier, but what exactly they do in the brain is largely unknown. And no one really knows what these differences mean. A larger brain:body ratio means a smarter animal when different species are considered, but within a species–certainly within humans–the variation is not clearly signficant. Additionally, environment affects brain growth. In a perfectly “gender neutral” environment would men’s and women’s brains be more similar? Who knows.

    The problem being that, as you mentioned, it is essentially impossible to separate out culture from genetics in humans. People treat girl babies differently from boy babies from birth. That must affect their brain development. But is the need to treat the genders differently “hard wired”? It’s an interesting problem and one that will never get treated with any kind of objectivity as long as some people need to prove that one gender is inferior.

  26. In my own life, it means that I must think much harder about my use of aggression — because I recognize that I am not a disembodied soul able to make perfectly rational decisions in the heat of anger.

    Me too. But I am, as my screen name implies, female. Am I an outlier, from a particularly aggressive culture, oversensitive, or lying?

  27. Re: men and women being different –
    It’s obvious that variation of biological sex exists, but where does one draw the line? I saw a Nova documentary “Sex: Unknown”, where they interviewed a doctor who had surgically altered a baby boy into a girl because all penises must be x length. One wonders, why not x-1 or x+3 etc., etc.
    And how does one even classify sex? By chromosomes? (With the dilemma of XY, X0 and XXX women, XXY and XYY men?) By ability to reproduce? By comparing their genitals to some textbook ideal?
    Oh and about the “I’m not a feminist”, if it wasn’t for feminists she wouldn’t be at Harvard, and her only non-“virgin and housewife” option would be as an abused and mistreated prostitute.

  28. Oh and Jill, great post! For me, the NYT style section exists so feministe can righteously smack it down.

  29. ACS,

    It’s faulty to assume that cross-cultural universality is clear evidence for a biobehavioral link. All global cultures developed in the presence of universal non-behavioral biological differences, particularly regarding asymmetrical physical hardship in procreation. It’s perfectly plausible that this universal non-behavioral biological difference would lead to the development of similar or even identical norms, especially regarding things like division of labor and physical aggressiveness.

  30. It’s obvious that variation of biological sex exists, but where does one draw the line? I saw a Nova documentary “Sex: Unknown”, where they interviewed a doctor who had surgically altered a baby boy into a girl because all penises must be x length. One wonders, why not x-1 or x+3 etc., etc.
    And how does one even classify sex? By chromosomes? (With the dilemma of XY, X0 and XXX women, XXY and XYY men?) By ability to reproduce? By comparing their genitals to some textbook ideal?

    If you want a few nightmares, read John Colapinto’s As Nature Made Him, where doctors at Johns Hopkins essentially experimented on a pair of twin boys to see if one could be raised as a girl after he lost his penis in an accident when he was an infant.

    Turns out, he couldn’t. And it screwed him (and his brother, and his parents) up in a really, really major way.

    If there are any anthropology/sociology majors out here, David Reimer (as he became after he re-assumed his birth gender) was the “Joan” half of the famous “John/Joan” experiment.

  31. It’s faulty to assume that cross-cultural universality is clear evidence for a biobehavioral link. All global cultures developed in the presence of universal non-behavioral biological differences, particularly regarding asymmetrical physical hardship in procreation. It’s perfectly plausible that this universal non-behavioral biological difference would lead to the development of similar or even identical norms, especially regarding things like division of labor and physical aggressiveness.

    Frankly, I think that the fact that reproduction has been made a volitional act is absolutely key to the advances that feminism has made over the past fifty years. I don’t dispute that. However, it’s simple human exceptionalism to believe that our biology is somehow different than the biology of any other creature on earth and doesn’t influence our behavior. Gender parity in aggressive behavior is a trait that, if it existed, would have to have been created de novo in order to exist in humans. This is unlikely to be the case.

    — ACS

  32. It’s faulty to assume that cross-cultural universality is clear evidence for a biobehavioral link. All global cultures developed in the presence of universal non-behavioral biological differences, particularly regarding asymmetrical physical hardship in procreation. It’s perfectly plausible that this universal non-behavioral biological difference would lead to the development of similar or even identical norms, especially regarding things like division of labor and physical aggressiveness.

    Frankly, I think that the fact that reproduction has been made a volitional act is absolutely key to the advances that feminism has made over the past fifty years. I don’t dispute that. However, it’s simple human exceptionalism to believe that our biology is somehow different than the biology of any other creature on earth and doesn’t influence our behavior. Gender parity in aggressive behavior is a trait that, if it existed, would have to have been created de novo in order to exist in humans. This is unlikely to be the case.

    — ACS

  33. This is getting severely off topic, but what about the Navajo invasion of the southwest? Or the Aztec invasion of Mexico? Both displaced previous societies (the Anazasi in the southwestern US, multiple tribes in Mexico). I’m not familiar enough with Africa to even make a vague suggestion of its history, but didn’t Asia have several cultures sweep through?

    I’m not disputing that more aggressive cultures displaced less aggressive cultures; it’s just that aggression is correlated with male domination, and never matriarchy.

    Asia suffered a lot of the brunt of Asian pastoralist population explosions, but never to the same extent that Europe did. Europe was reduced, over time, to speaking only languages derived from Indo-European — Asia has a far greater diversity of language families.

    Africa, for a number of reasons, never experienced the same kind of monocultural agriculturalist spread that affected the rest of the world. There exists more genetic diversity amongst humans in Africa that exists in the rest of the world combined.

    If the model you propose existed, you would be able to trace all human language to a common root at about the time at which humans became capable of genocide and organized warfare — about six to eight thousand years ago.

    People only got into organized warfare 6-8K years ago. That seems…recent. Since some groups of humans have (until very recently) been isolated from others for longer than that (ie Americans versus European/Asians), a single culture couldn’t have spread through genocide and warfare. (Do you have any references for the 6-8K year statistic? I’m not doubting you, just curious.)

    6K-10K years ago is roughly the neolithic, which is when the first real expansions of human monoculture (driven by agriculture) took place. Using modern societies as a model, tribal societies and chiefdoms engage in feuding — which is frequently lethal, and similar to warfare — but is largely local and amongst members of smilar cultures, rather than regional and between dissimilar cultures. Even then, the largest organizational units were confederations of city-states which exerted regional influence and burnt down other regional cities, rather than went on huge continent-wide looting and burning sprees.

    You don’t really see huge expansions and displacement until the late end of that stage, when humans began to domesticate first donkeys, then horses. After than point, huge explosions of asshole patriachal horse cultures began to boil out of central Asia and periodically burn down the rest of the world. Everything from Spain to India was influenced by drought-driven horse asshole explosions — the only remaining “native” European language is Basque; the remainder are part of the Indo-European language group.

    Still, all people come from a single root culture. Who’s to say that that culture couldn’t have fallen out either direction (male or female aggressive)? Other primates’ behavior is some evidence, but not completely convincing: how many other primates use the internet? (That is, there are obvious differences between humans and other primates, who is to say that this isn’t one of them?)

    Any isolated group, free from the pressures of neighboring patriarchs, could have turned out differently. The Americas could have developed a violent matriarchal culture without the continent-spanning influence of periodic pastoralist explosions. They didn’t. Any one of a number of isolated Polynesian islands could have developed a violent matriarchal culture. They didn’t.

    At some point, you have to conclude that the total absence of violent matriarchal cultures (or even matriarchal cultures) means something about human aggression in general. This explains global patriachy. It does not excuse it.

    — ACS

  34. Me too. But I am, as my screen name implies, female. Am I an outlier, from a particularly aggressive culture, oversensitive, or lying?

    Probably perfectly normal. Anyone who tells you that ‘Men Are X, Women Are Y’ is probably actually telling you ‘Women Should Be X, Men Should Be Y’. The fact that natural proclivities exist does not mean that culture can’t mostly or completely override them, or that anything about human biology is teleologically significant.

    –ACS

  35. I studied at a single sex and supposedly Catholic school, yet practically every day after school there was a fight. Not just the male fantasy of scratching and hair pulling, but extremely aggressive kicks and punches. I consider myself generally a very calm and controlled individual, yet even I got into a handful of fights, remembering these are all girls that are supposedly naturally not very aggressive.

    What this shows was that this was a school for the low income families and therefore the dainty female stereotypes were not so rigidly enforced at that age, more pressing issues being at hand (namely making money). Of course, those that generally did not get involved were the studious types with parents on a higher income.
    I’m Hispanic, which means my mum brought me up to be religious and drummed into me all the stereotypes of how I should behave because I am female, yet when I found myself in a culture that allowed for female aggression, I was aggressive. Outside of school, I was the image of ‘feminine’ perfection, my mum getting constant compliments for how well-behaved I was.
    So from my own experience and being aware of my own ability for aggression (that I must now hold back) I don’t believe that women are terribly less aggressive then men, I believe we live in a culture that allows men to be aggressive and so they are.

    This is just my experience, but it’s why I won’t ever let anyone tell me that I am a less aggressive person because I am female. (Also because at times I get the urge to beat the crap out of someone who wrongs me, usually a sexist man)

  36. men may think women are not aggressive because they don’t pulverize each other on the regular, but any girl who has survived jr. high knows how deadly repressed female aggression can be.

    i think if men could observe some women’s behavior when no men are around, this whole sex-difference thing would not exist.

  37. i don’t just mean to imply that women are all little mean girls that pull hair over men. i also think men could benefit from knowing how women talk about sex when they are not around.

  38. female Harvard science majors peered earnestly at test tubes, wearing lab coats opened to expose black lacy bras and panties

    OMFG. As a holder of a science degree, I’m appalled. Yeah, science majors are sexy, but why do we need to wear patriarchally defined uniforms to prove it? To paraphrase the ineffable Zuska, who I intend to blogpimp in the thread below, those women are reassuring the world that despite their brains and degrees, they can be counted on to maintain a proper feminine role and not to challenge the male hegemony.

  39. If you want a few nightmares, read John Colapinto’s As Nature Made Him, where doctors at Johns Hopkins essentially experimented on a pair of twin boys to see if one could be raised as a girl after he lost his penis in an accident when he was an infant.

    Turns out, he couldn’t. And it screwed him (and his brother, and his parents) up in a really, really major way.

    You know, I never bought that. If you read his story, he was basically forced into feminine behaviors in addition to female genitals. For example, he couldn’t be active on the playground b/c girls don’t do that. It’s not necessary to enforce all those artificial feminine traits to raise a female child as a girl. As an N=1 experiment, this in no way proves that any set of behaviors is hardwired into males or females. We’ll never know how the story would have been different if he had been allowed to be a queer tomboy, or if he had been allowed to pick his own gender without the pressure of artificial roles. As a matter of fact, he could have been severely troubled even if he had been raised as a boy.

  40. I think you kinda missed the point of the book, Frumious. They tried to prove that you could raise a genetic boy to be a “good” girl, as in a stereotypical giggles-and-makeup-and-boys girl. And they brought all kinds of pressure to bear on him (and his family) to make it happen, including making him and his brother engage in sex play in front of the doctor. Raising him to be a queer tomboy would have been completely antithetical to the experiment.

    I do think that there’s something innate to gender, or there would be no such thing as transsexuals. I don’t think it’s automatically tied in to genitalia, but there’s something somewhere that’s fundamental. In the book, David was castrated at a young age (testicles removed) but they still had to give him estrogen to keep him looking like a girl — the simple removal of the major source of testosterone wasn’t enough.

  41. *rolls eyes*
    Another day, another reason to be fed up.

    Who needs freedom when you can choose the colour of your chains? I’m told that polka dot ones are in this season.

    As for the biology argument: I’m fairly sure there is a good reason why patriarchy is tied to human biology – men are usually (and I say usually, not always) bigger and stronger than women. That’s all the advantage you need to get the system established. If it had been the other way around I think it’s quite plausible that a matriarchal society would have developed, without any necessary change in the structure of our brains.

  42. I do think that there’s something innate to gender, or there would be no such thing as transsexuals

    I think you are confusing the identification a transgender person may feel with a construct of gender with the actual innate differences between the sexes.
    Basically what you are trying to say to me, a hispanic woman, is that I am a transsexual white wannabe. I do not see myself as innately having any ‘feminine’ traits, I feel more comfortable with masculine traits and to some extent you could classify the way I act at times to be ‘masculine’. In addition to that, I do not identify myself as being very hispanic at all, I feel like I am no different to my white boyfriend. Of course there are superficial differences of colour, language, mannerisms…etc. What they have in common is that they are all culturally learnt and enforced differences, but the actual innate differences that would make it extremely difficult for us to see each other as being fundamentally the same, just aren’t there.

  43. Can I step in on behalf of the student quoted in this article?

    I don’t think she expresses what she means well, but what she’s getting at is, I think something like this.

    Because it is impossible to experimentally separate the biological from the cultural roots of behavior experimentally in human populations, there’s no way to determine definitively what portion of observed sex differences in behavior have biological origins.

    For most academic feminists, the orthodox response to this fact is to assert that the answer to that question is somewhere between very little and none at all. This I think comes partly from the fact that gender studies departments tend to be essentially cultural studies departments in their methodology, and partly from the fact that arguments for biologically-ingrained sex differences have a history of being used to justify the continued oppression of women.

    However, for someone with a background in biology, it can be very frustrating to have the role of genes in determining brain structure which in turn determines brain behavior pretty much dismissed entirely as an explanatory force, and there can be an urge to distance yourself from a set of theories that feel “not scientific”. It can also be frustrating to have work that is in fact undertaken in a feminist spirit (to understand how biology might play into the origins of patriarchy is key in developing strategies to dismantle it) be characterized as antifeminist.

    This is exacerbated by a tendency for unflattering caricatures of feminist thought to show up in the writings of people working on biology-based models of the origins of human behavior; these caricatures could be her only real exposure to feminist thought if she hasn’t specifically taken classes in feminist or gender studies.

    Anyways, the point is, she’s not stupid. She did a poor job of articulating her position in a legitimately open controversy (how to tease apart the biological and cultural components of human behavior) and probably didn’t mean to say that she was “not feminist” as being in favor of female inequality, but “not feminist” as being not a member of a cultural-studies oriented strand of academic feminism. At least, this was what many of the bio majors I spent time with (including myself for a time) meant when they said they were not feminist, and it’s a confusion that springs out of the fact that the definition of the word “feminist” is very contested territory.

  44. Psyche and Splatterdash,

    First, I think there is no point in brushing biology under the rug. It undermines credibility. It makes feminism the intelligent design of the civil rights movement. Plus, the truth is quite servicable, thank you. Whenever there is some study that shows how men’s and women’s brain chemistry, hormone levels, whatever, is differnt, it gets on the front page of Time. Quietly relegated to the back waters of science, however, are the millions of data where men and women are the same. To the extent they are not, the next question is, so what?

    Second, Splatterdash is right. It’s way overthinking the subject to go beyond physical size to figure out where the patriarcy came from. Why does the little dog roll over on his back in front of the big one? Self preservation. The big dog and rip his neck open. He has to show he is not a threat. The culture wars over gender are intensifying because we have created a society where the ruling class is no longer the hunter or the warrior. It’s the hedge fund manager, the politician, the dot com executive – and even being pregnant does not much interfere with those pursuits (except to the exent our social structures allow it to) – they way that hunting a wildibeast or going to war did. Women are often still afraid to challenge the partriarchy, just like a lot of blacks were during the civil rights movement. Do you realize that Spellman and Morehouse did not initially allow their students to participate in sit ins (that’s illegal!)? That black cooks came out of kitchens all the time and yelled at the black young people at lunch counters (I need to show the owner where I stand so I don’t lose my job!)? Challenging a power structure like the patriarchy or white supremacy is not for the faint of heart. There WILL be casualties. It won’t go down easily. A lot of people won’t jump on the bandwagon until the very end. I just urge all readers here to drive on. Ignore those trying to undermine us who should be the biggest supporters. Someday they will have to go to Ebenezzer Baptist Church on MLK’s birthday and try to pretend like they know the words to Lift Every Voice and Sing just like the Bushes do now (hey – we need an anthem).

  45. Second, Splatterdash is right. It’s way overthinking the subject to go beyond physical size to figure out where the patriarcy came from. Why does the little dog roll over on his back in front of the big one? Self preservation. The big dog and rip his neck open. He has to show he is not a threat.

    If that were the case, then patriarchy’s decline would be corellated with force-equalizing technologies — the bronze knife, the horse, the firearm. Unfortunately, it’s not. The least patriarchal societies have a tendency to be those where actual physical strength matters most: hunter-gatherer bands.

    — ACS

  46. I think you are confusing the identification a transgender person may feel with a construct of gender with the actual innate differences between the sexes.

    I was using “transgender” in the sense of someone who actually undergoes procedures to alter their bodies to what they feel is the correct gender, whether that’s an apparent woman who changes to be a man, or an apparent man who changes to be a woman. Those are the transgender people I’m most familiar with.

    Basically what you are trying to say to me, a hispanic woman, is that I am a transsexual white wannabe.

    I have absolutely no idea whatsoever how you got that from my comment. If anything I said led you to believe that I think that biological gender is somehow determined by race or ethnicity, I apologize.

    I think that there is a biological basis for our basic sense of gender identification (meaning, whether we are male or female), and that sense may not always match up with our apparent biological gender. David Reimer always knew that on some level that he was not a female, no matter how many times he was reassured by the adults in his life that he was, and that his feelings of being male were incorrect.

    Gender identification != gender roles. There are men out there who live as women, but still know that they are men. That’s different from someone who is trying to live their life in the wrong body and constantly feeling alienated from their own genitals.

  47. bmc90

    Your reply actually captures exactly the attitude towards biology that can alienate female biologists from feminism. After making a token nod towards biological factors – “there’s no point brushing biology under the rug” you then dismiss biological factors as carrying significant explanatory power – “It’s way overthinking the subject to go beyond physical size”.

    Physically, scientists have identified a number of ways in which men and women’s physical bodies differ that go beyond size or reproductive structures. Men and women have different skeletal and muscle configurations, such that athletes train best under programs that take into account their sex. Men and women are differentially prone to a range of diseases, such as schizophrenia and irritable bowel syndrome, that have nothing to do with obvious sex differences. And when they have the same problems (such as heart disease) they often develop along different trajectories and respond to different medications.

    Given this range of physical differences, it would be an unexpected result if the biological components of mental processes were entirely undifferentiated with regards to sex. However, there are to major barriers that prevent meaningful results in the area: the aforementioned difficulty of detangling cultural and biological factors and the current lack of any sort of detailed understanding of how physiological differences in the brain map or don’t map to differences in mental processes.

    However, biologists tend to look at this difficulty as a really exciting challenge, whereas feminists tend to look at any sort of research in this area with a great deal of wariness. This isn’t wrong or illogical – as I mentioned earlier, biological accounts of sex differences have a scary history of involving made-up science and of being used to justify female oppression – but it does make things uncomfortable for people who are passionate about the explanatory power of biology. They can feel like identifying as feminists means stepping away from or underplaying that passion.

    The real problem here is not the hows or wherefores of sex differences – we can accomplish plenty focusing on cultural factors – but how we can intelligently differentiate between a sort of broad feminism that that’s about equal access for women, and a narrower feminism that subscribes to a less broadly held set of positions about culture, the constructed nature of gender, etc. On the one hand, one wants the tent to be broad enough to draw as many people as possible into working for the goals we can all agree on, but on the other, narrow enough to point to groups like IWF who may say they’re feminist and meaningfully call them not feminist. No good answer here, I think, just questions.

  48. Mnemosyne, my point is, my gender is no more grounded in biology than my race is. My colour and genetic makeup is my biology, my race and gender are the social constructs.
    There are those that identify more with a certain race that is not their own, that would do anything to belong to that race, are you trying to say that therefore there is a fundamental difference between the races (that is not socially constructed) that makes a person want to be this race?

    I have not read the book you suggest, so I cannot really comment on it, except to say that when I was growing up I wanted to be male because of the freedom boys were given. Even as a child I recognised the difference and advantages of being a boy, so if I were growing up with a twin who got all of the freedoms that I was denied as well as having to undergo painful surgeries and hormone injections in order to be treated as a lesser being, then like hell would I want to be a woman.

  49. Physically, scientists have identified a number of ways in which men and women’s physical bodies differ that go beyond size or reproductive structures.

    There are biological differences between ethnicities that go beyond what is visible: certain cancers are more aggressive in different ethnicities, difference in levels of testerone, different ratio of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscles, differences in cerebral asymmetries, to name just a handful.
    So then I have to ask, so what? Why do we not examine the differences that this translates to in the way different races think?Maybe because there are SO many variables that make it an impossible task to undertake without falling into the mental pit holes of the individuals undertaking this laborious task. The same can and should be said of the sexes.

    (This has nothing to do with recognising the biological differences between sexes and ethnicities and requiring that medical treatment reflect those differences, but I become extremely weary when these differences are applied to the mind. ‘The Female Brain’ by Dr. L. Brizendine is a perfect example of how it goes so terribly wrong)

  50. Mnemosyne, my point is, my gender is no more grounded in biology than my race is. My colour and genetic makeup is my biology, my race and gender are the social constructs.

    Not to be pedantic, but: your gender is a social construct, but your sex is not. There are some intersexed people who report that they do not have strong feelings of being either male or female, but they’re pretty rare. Most people know what sex they are, even if their genitals don’t match.

    I have not read the book you suggest, so I cannot really comment on it, except to say that when I was growing up I wanted to be male because of the freedom boys were given. Even as a child I recognised the difference and advantages of being a boy, so if I were growing up with a twin who got all of the freedoms that I was denied as well as having to undergo painful surgeries and hormone injections in order to be treated as a lesser being, then like hell would I want to be a woman.

    You really should read the book — David’s experiences go far beyond just wanting the same freedoms that his brother did. When he was being forced to live as a girl, he felt it was wrong on a very basic level beyond the clothes they were making him wear or the behavior he was supposed to be modeling (though those were issues as well). He actually guessed that he was a boy before his family was ready to tell him about his medical history.

    Again, it’s the difference between wanting the freedoms that a boy has (I was a tomboy myself) and looking down at your genitals and knowing that they don’t match the way you feel. I may have wished I was a boy sometimes, but, unlike David, I never felt an irresistible urge to pee standing up, even if I had to do it in alleyways. I rejected femininity, but I always knew I was a biological female.

  51. So then I have to ask, so what? Why do we not examine the differences that this translates to in the way different races think?Maybe because there are SO many variables that make it an impossible task to undertake without falling into the mental pit holes of the individuals undertaking this laborious task. The same can and should be said of the sexes.

    You can control for environmental factors and cultural factors, at least in race, and when you do, you (surprise, surprise) come up with very few differences. In one particular intelligence study done after The Bell Curve, psychologists compared American blacks with Carribean immigrants with white Americans. Surprise surprise, they found that, controlling for the American government’s racist neglect of its African-American population, there was no difference in “innate” intelligence.

    There is no force in nature enforcing social justice. If things had happened slightly differently, we could be living alongside Homo Erectus — a sentient species that was profoundly unequal with Homo Sapiens. If human sexual dimorphism was much more severe, we could have ended up with intelligent females and insentient males, or the opposite. It happens to be the case that neither of those things are the case, and that our culture is less fucked up by biology than it might otherwise have been. It is fortunate that humans do not differ so significantly (or very significantly at all) that equality is impossible. However, we can’t simply assume that there is nothing flawed about our biology; nothing in what nature has made us that pulls against who we should be.

    An enforced lack of curiosity about particular topics is never helpful, except insofar as people misunderstand that nature is not purpose, and that the same evolutionary forces that created wolverines, mosquitoes, and anthrax are not moral guideposts for the human race.

    — ACS

  52. Men and women are differentially prone to a range of diseases, such as schizophrenia and irritable bowel syndrome, that have nothing to do with obvious sex differences.

    I was under the impression that schizophrenia is genetic in a way that impacts males more often, the same way that males are colorblind more often than females. I think that one’s genes are a pretty obvious sex difference.

  53. I was under the impression that schizophrenia is genetic in a way that impacts males more often, the same way that males are colorblind more often than females. I think that one’s genes are a pretty obvious sex difference.

    If schizophrenia were an X-linked disorder caused by a single gene, the gender breakdown would be 75% male/25% female, or thereabouts. The breakdown is closer to 55% male/45% female. So although there may be a genetic component, schizophrenia is neither (a) totally heritable, or (b) totally X-linked. However, one form of schizophrenia, tracable to the HOPA gene, is X-linked, though the disorder has other symptoms than schizophrenia.

    — ACS

  54. I’m a feminist and a student of the sciences. It’s indisputable that there are genetic differences and a great deal of variation between men and women, and between different races and ethnicities, but the big problem is drawing the line and assigning people to categories. Especially when we start making many specific generalizations about people in a category, that ALL women are or should be passive, docile, mothering, bad at math, not visually stimulated, etc., and treat as freaks women who do not fit in those categories. I think it’s obvious, and I’m sure most people here have experienced it, that if you step outside the accepted stereotypes of your gender, that you are treated like a deviant.
    Although most intersex people (I have no statistics on this, however) seem to be oriented to one gender or another, I think that the construction of gender as the be-all-and-end-all of destiny has severely hurt them. Most appear as closer to one sex (for example, women with AIS who appear pretty unequivocally female) but because of the way we have constructed gender, as rigid and extremely specific, they are pushed out of those categories.
    As for the racial question, I’m Asian, and no one would mistake me for a Swede or a Nigerian. My blood type is more common in northeast Asia than other regions of the world, and my family has no history of sickle cell anemia or cystic fibrosis (more common in respectively sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans). However, a lot of people believe that all Asians have tiny frames, straight pitch black hair, narrow slanted eyes, yellow skin, high cheekbones, flat noses and minimal body hair – and despite being of basically 100% East Asian ancestry, and looking, IMHO, fairly identifiably Asian, none of those characteristics describe me.

  55. This drifted pretty far from the topic, but it was all very interesting.

    For everyone arguing whether the differences are more biological or more cultural, remember that we all believe the same thing; that those differences are unimportant when it comes to what individuals are capable of, and that being different and diverse is great, as long as we all receive equal rights and opportunities.

    As a science student myself, I have a feeling I know why Vanderberg (who, if you’ll all note, is a mere 20 years old) said something so ridiculous. I’ve noticed a tendency on the part of many science students to dismiss non-science fields as unnecessary, or unimportant. I’ve repeatedly seen this result in scientists who either can’t grasp things like equal!=the same, or who can’t clearly articulate what they meant in plain English.

  56. Especially when we start making many specific generalizations about people in a category, that ALL women are or should be passive, docile, mothering, bad at math, not visually stimulated, etc., and treat as freaks women who do not fit in those categories. I think it’s obvious, and I’m sure most people here have experienced it, that if you step outside the accepted stereotypes of your gender, that you are treated like a deviant.

    Spot on.

  57. I actually kind of admire the Boink people for not selling out to the Silicone Mafia. Kudos to them. I like that “sex-positivity” is not misused by only applying it to one type of consumer-friendly sexuality, ala Playboy.

    “We want to be proud of the fact that this is what’s going on in sex and in college right now, and these are real people, and you’re more relatable if you’re a real person,” she said. “We don’t put makeup on them, we don’t do their hair, we don’t Photoshop them. We aim for honesty and truth.”

    I think that’s fabulous. Sexuality, real people, men and women.

    Oh, and Vandenberg’s comments were precious. Never mind that the fact that she can be at Harvard, H Bomb can EXIST, and that she can be the EDITOR of it is due to feminism.

  58. I wanted to be male a year ago, when I had ovarian cysts.

    And I want to be a guy now, when my endometriosis is fighting the lupron hormone causing lots of fun pain and mood swings.

    And, since I take calcium (parthyroids removed), I get kidney stones. Every f!cking time, the doctor, always a guy, and usually a Jewish guy, makes me do a 24-urine collection. That would be much easier if I were a guy.

    So I have a biological reason for my desire – I’m bleeding, nauseas, stressed out, and in incredible pain. (The pain may be a kidney stone, but most of it’s endometrial.)

    When my dad says I’m addicted to pain meds and being sick and lazy, I want to stab him below his belly button, and then set it on fire, but make it so it won’t kill him. Or put the balls in a vise. Same goes for any male doctor.

    Ironically, I’m seeing a male GYN right now, and he’s quite fine with giving me what I need for pain – he knows I want to get better. (laprascopy – another male gyn – a year ago never healed, followed by horrific kidney stone problems a year later led to muscle and nerve damage.)

    If I were a guy, I’d only have the kidney stones (and whatever upsets my stomach). I wouldn’t be told, “Women have blood in their urine all the time.” Lucky for that man, I didn’t have the 24 hours worth of urine on me at the time. >:(

    This is light hearted, I’m quite content with my gender, I just want robotic abdominal and pelvic organs. Is that too much to ask?

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