In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Grannies Gone Wild

I’m hestitant to wade into the pornography wars, but this article should give all of us more than a little bit to cringe about.

Yes, it’s about the latest “fetish” — women over the age of 40, doin’ it on camera. And, from the way the article reads, doing it for male viewers and to make a whole lot of money for male directors and male-owned production companies. All to the shock and dismay of the people who believe “female” to be synonymous with white, blonde, thin and young.

“It was weird to me,” he said. “She could be my mom. At first I thought it would blow over and that maybe no one would hire her. But then people started hiring her, and then they wanted her for magazines. It’s crazy. This is supposed to be an industry with the youngest, newest, most beautiful girls in the world. Isn’t youth what everyone wants?”

Emphasis on the word “newest.”

I’m willing to respect the experiences and beliefs of the many women who believe that creating and watching porn can be empowering, and the many more who argue that it isn’t an either-or decision between “empowering” and “disempowering” — that it can just be, or that it can take on different meanings in different contexts. But I’m not willing to disregard the pervasive misogyny of many of the straight dudes who create, profit from, and watch porn. That misogyny is presented pretty starkly in this quote — the industry wants the “newest” women, the way that people want the newest model car. Sure, there may be a market for used objects, but they’re never as ideal or as desirable. It’s weird to prefer them. And while some people may read this article and think, “Hey, great, older women are sexy too!,” there’s no reason to cheer about the fact that older women are now as consumable as sub-human sexual objects as younger women are. There’s no reason to cheer about a trend story which is aghast at the idea that someone, somewhere, wants to fuck someone in the 40-plus category — you know, the women who were previous enuchs as far as the mainstream portayal of “sexy” women goes.

I’m all for expanding beauty standards, and for getting away from the idea that beauty requires youth. But that’s not really what this is about at all.

The pornography industry, that multibillion-dollar-a-year symbol of airbrushed American carnality, is aging. The advent of Viagra, the maturing of sexually aware baby boomers and overall improved health and beauty are all contributing to the graying of naughty.

The biggest change is in the sexual desirability of women old enough to be the viewer’s mother.

As opposed to the desirability of women young enough to be the viewer’s daughter. But that’s normal.

The idea that this phenomenon has anything to do with “improved health and beauty” is laughable too. “Beauty” is not an immutible, neutral standard. You can’t measure “improved beauty” the way that you can measure things like increased life expectancy or maternal mortality rates. But when women are obects to be viewed, I suppose one can obectively determine that, with increased beauty technology (i.e., plastic surgery and airbrushing) and increased wealth, their beauty is indeed improving. Kind of like the body design of the latest Mercedes.

The director, Urbano Martin, points his camera strategically, scarcely disguising his boredom. “I shoot specialty films,” he explains during a break in filming, adding that he has been in the business for 17 years. “Fat women, old women, hairy girls — all kinds. We feed the niche.”

Fat women, old women, hairy girls — you know, “niche” interests. Not at all what the majority of women in this country look like naked.

WHO watches this stuff? By far the most avid consumers of older-woman pornography, producers say, are young men fulfilling boyhood fantasies of teacher lust or yearning for the attractive mothers of their friends. Some, it has been suggested, may be tired of what one producer, Oren Cohen, has called, in a recent AVN article, “the young, helpless teen thing.”

What I’m wondering is how the producers have any clue as to the motives of the men consuming their product. Seems to me that the big boys in charge are busy assigning motives to explain for this freakish trend of anyone finding “older” women attractive (excuse the scare quotes, I’m just having kind of a hard time considering 35-year-old women “old”).

David Joseph, 38, De’Bella’s boss and the president of Platinum X, said: “It’s totally an erotic thing people are attracted to. There’s a huge market out there for older women. I’m trying to understand it myself.”

Yes, the complete freakishness of being attracted to women your own age. I too am trying to understand it. It’s a wonder that anyone over the age of 18 has ever gotten pregnant.

The article falls into all the old sexist traps — describing what the woman in question is wearing and even eating as if it’s at all relevant, and pretending that the issue is gender-neutral by tagging on at the end, “look, it happens to men, too!”

Yes, there are older male porn stars. But that’s always been the case, and beauty standards don’t apply quite as firmly to men as to women — just ask Ron Jeremy. And older men in porn are presented a little… differently:

Like a lot of experienced actors in the business, Mr. Cummings directs as well as acts in his movies (don’t ask: mirrors are involved), and they frequently play on dirty old man fantasies, with titles like “It’s a Daddy Thing,” “Sugar Daddy” and one just three months ago featuring a 19-year-old woman and a group of older sex-film stars. Mr. Cummings is on the cover of the DVD, leaning on a walker.

So by “dirty old man fantasies” you actually mean “eroticizing incest.” Perhaps I’m being prudish, and please call me out if I am, but “It’s a Daddy Thing”? I’m not going to get on people for what they personally get off on. But I am going to get on the guys who create, market and make money off of things like incest and rape porn. And I’ll get on the New York Times reporter who thinks that “It’s a Daddy Thing” is equivalent to a 35-year-old woman having sex with a 25-year-old man on camera.

Bottom line: My feelings on porn aside*, this article is disturbing on a number of levels. And I just can’t bring myself to get excited about the fact that the “used” models are selling nearly as well as the new ones.

*My feelings in a nut shell, for anyone who’s curious: Porn makes me uncomfortable, but I think it’s complicated, and that it can take on different meanings in different contexts. I generally don’t like it, but I also don’t think that it should be banned. I do think it’s fair to regulate it. I don’t think it’s always anti-feminist, but I don’t think it’s feminist either — and I think that more often then not, hetero porn is misogynist and hateful toward women. That said, people get off on different things, and I don’t think it makes someone self-hating or anti-feminist to get off on porn, or even to get off on participating in it. Like I said: complicated.


46 thoughts on Grannies Gone Wild

  1. Damn, Jill, could you maybe quit being on fire for five minutes? Between this and the middle school girls piece, you’re going to give everyone a complex.

    Yes, the complete freakishness of being attracted to women your own age.

    Well, it IS freakish, if you’re used to thinking of women in terms of cars, where newer is always better, and older’s just another word for “headed for the scrap heap.”

  2. Porn, like many other things, is only workable to me if I can forget how it’s made. And this article just reminds me why. Fortunately, I can avoid it, unlike clothes or food.

    On a lighter note, I need to step away from the internets. My first thoughts on reading your post were ‘Yes, Jill, but what are your thoughts on yaoi?.

  3. Yes, the complete freakishness of being attracted to women your own age. I too am trying to understand it. It’s a wonder that anyone over the age of 18 has ever gotten pregnant.

    You cracked me up, and scared my kitten. I hope your happy! 😉

  4. Here’s my weird thought: it seems that pornographers are generally flummoxed when confronted with what their audiences actually want to see, as opposed to acting out their own fantasies and assuming they’re what everyone wants to see. They seem almost upset that their customers are demanding something other than what they’re selling.

    Not sure where I’m going with this, but still. Interesting.

  5. Full disclosure: I watch porn. I have watched it since I was in high school (graduated in 2000), watched it even more in college, and continue to do so, to a lesser extent, today.

    Everything you’ve said here and in your * summary of views is spot on, imo. Women are, all too often, treated like pieces of meat or products. There’s such a huge emphasis on teens and virgins and, other than a few superstars, very few women appear to be out of their twenties. I’m sure that many of them are actually “older,” but they’ve had tons of cosmetic surgery to keep looking young. If a woman does look a bit older, she is now labeled a MILF and enters a sub-culture of pornography that specializes in “mature” women.

    I’ve downloaded videos where the female performers are clearly crying or in pain in the middle of the film because of the things they’re forced to do and the way that they’re treated. It’s sick. That being said, there are many men and women who do clearly enjoy their work and there are probably studios and agencies that treat their employees very well–it’s complicated, as mentioned above. It’s rare in my experience, but you can find videos that actually depict two people having sex and not just acting for cameras and doing stupid and degrading things to each other.

    One thing especially disturbing that I’ve noticed in recent mainstream videos is choking. With or without prompting, the man will sometimes choke his female partner while she is supposedly orgasming. These are not “fetish” videos or anything that would be labeled as special–they’re very normal and run-of-the-mill. I can only assume that its mostly faked and it must be written into their contracts, but… jeez. I’ve never seen a woman choke a man, though that’s possibly because it’s been the standard for some time for a man to ejaculate on a woman’s face–something else I think is absolutely disgusting–so there’s no way to do both at once.

    I just hope choking doesn’t catch on too much… From recent college experience (friends’, not mine), the “on the face” finish is practiced in real-life more than you’d expect. I can’t help but think that porn may be responsible for that.

    /end my 2 cents.

  6. I agree. In other news, did y’all know Twisty Faster, who writes the blog I Blame the Patriarchy, is a lesbian (as she says in her post Twistolution, part 36.) Am I the last one to know or what?

  7. The pornography industry, that multibillion-dollar-a-year symbol of airbrushed American carnality, is aging. The advent of Viagra, the maturing of sexually aware baby boomers and overall improved health and beauty are all contributing to the graying of naughty.

    The biggest change is in the sexual desirability of women old enough to be the viewer’s mother.

    Somehow, one does not follow the other here. The Boomers are driving this, yet a 50-year-old actress is somehow old enough to be said Boomers’ mother?

  8. My thoughts below are rude amd judgemental, and should not be read by the sensitive…

    If choking does in fact catch on(I hope it doesn’t!) the most fuckery will be borne by the younger girls.(by which I mean from like 16 to around 25 you know?). Why? Because we don’t do enough to tell girls the only thing they gotta do is stay their skin color and die. We feminists need to start educating youth to say hey, what the fuck? This ain’t your own private porn studio, I didn’t sign a contract for this, you stop that or you’re kicked to the curb.

  9. We feminists need to start educating youth to say hey, what the fuck? This ain’t your own private porn studio, I didn’t sign a contract for this, you stop that or you’re kicked to the curb.

    How do you do that Shannon when porn is mainstream and feminism is so marginalized?

  10. The Boomers are driving this, yet a 50-year-old actress is somehow old enough to be said Boomers’ mother?

    Are they? People my age are also heavily into funding the porn industry, maybe not as much as the older crowd, but I don’t think we can say that boomers are the only ones to blame here.

  11. Oops, I should have read closer. With regards to my comment in moderation, you are correct, Zuzu. Though the younger crowd is fueling things as well.

  12. We have to start nibbling around the edges. Even telling a friend hey, you don’t have to put up with that dick can help. And try to get schools away from that abstinence only crap. If you acknowledge people are having sex, you can teach them sexual negiotiation skills, if you pretend they aren’t you can’t do anything. Also, you may have local groups you can support and volunteer for. If we all work together, stuff can be better, yo.

  13. That’s the NYT for you, always behind the curve. The “MILF” thing in porn is hardly new. Hell, “granny” porn is not new either. There’s always a segment of the porn audience that will buy stuff because it’s ‘new’ or ‘out there’ (remember bukakke? anyone? anyone?). There are always segments of the porn market that are small, but provide a steady audience.

    But the NYT does not tend to headline its stories with “Okay, this isn’t new, it’s new to US, so we’re going to get all breathless about it.” I put this one up with the mouth-breathing over supposed lipstick parties and oral-sex orgies among teens.

  14. But the NYT does not tend to headline its stories with “Okay, this isn’t new, it’s new to US, so we’re going to get all breathless about it.”

    “Hey, this isn’t the porn I usually look at during work! I smell a story!”

    In other words, people are shocked– shocked! — to discover that people have sexual tastes different from them. Sigh.

    And what Jill and Bolo said about the rampant misogyny of mainstream porn is spot on. The thought that some people way think that the way people relate in mainstream porn is normal is rather disturbing.

  15. The “MILF” thing in porn is hardly new. Hell, “granny” porn is not new either. There’s always a segment of the porn audience that will buy stuff because it’s ‘new’ or ‘out there’ (remember bukakke? anyone? anyone?). There are always segments of the porn market that are small, but provide a steady audience.

    I do sometimes wonder to what extent one can really track the “phases” the American population (or at least the male population) at large is going through, in terms of sexual fetishes, through the sales figures of various porn. Specifically, I wonder whether perceived trends like this actually point to what some segment of America suddenly finds very exciting, whether it’s what porn producers think some segment of America suddenly finds very exciting, or whether it’s all really “business as usual” and people like this NYT writer are just filling space.

  16. I do sometimes wonder to what extent one can really track the “phases” the American population (or at least the male population) at large is going through, in terms of sexual fetishes, through the sales figures of various porn.

    jt, what a compelling thought. This “phase” idea leads me to think: Perhaps a renewed interest in porn featuring older women is a reaction similar to the one the country produced via the 2006 elections.

    Conservative men (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Santorum, Dobson, etc., etc.) made a big mess of the country and the world; they lied to us; they hurt us; they invaded our privacy. Let’s usher in the women-as-mommy brigade to clean up the mess: Nancy Pelosi as speaker of the house, and please, lots of mature, mom-or-nana-looking women in porn. Who knows, maybe Hillary Clinton will even be the next president.

    (I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’.)

  17. With feminist porn.

    Sirkowski, the idea of that gives me a clit boner. What is feminist porn? Please use great detail in your description. Thanks.

  18. Conservative men (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Santorum, Dobson, etc., etc.) made a big mess of the country and the world

    There was a phrase I heard used somewhere over at Pandagon: War-nography. Hey, violence and destruction for mega-conglomerate corporations’ sake is totally hot, right?!

  19. Fat women, old women, hairy girls — you know, “niche” interests. Not at all what the majority of women in this country look like naked.

    I mean, in his defense he did say:
    “This is more normal people, more meat on the bone, like what you have at home.”

  20. As a woman, I usually hope that when people talk to my partner about me, they will refer to me as “what you have at home.” It’s almost as hot as “what you could get” or “the ball and chain.”

  21. “This is more normal people, more meat on the bone, like what you have at home.”

    Yeah, and that’s completely cool and totally feminist. I know referring to a woman as “what” instead of “who” and implying that she’s just some object on the shelf he can take down when he “needs” her is height of feminism. “Meat on the bone”? I can just smell the progressive attitude!

  22. ‘Yes, Jill, but what are your thoughts on yaoi?.

    Thirded.

    As far as “feminist” porn goes — I don’t know what the official position is, but I’ve always found Comstock films to lean more in that direction.

  23. Jill, kudos for admitting porn makes you uncomfortable. I simply don’t get how anyone can call herself a feminist and NOT be offended by that garbage. I’m a product of the 1980’s brand of feminism, and I absolutely will not ever under any circumstances consider porn anything but degrading and misogynist. Maybe after a couple dozen centuries of equality the ick will have worn off, but not bloody yet. Sorry, but porn is nothing but old gross men making money off of young girls, with maybe a few “junk dealers” selling the used goods. As an upthread poster mentioned, you have to remember how it’s made.

    Now, after that rant — it’s New Year’s Eve and all, one’s inhibitions get loosed a bit — I take some deeply disturbing satisfaction that at least some men out there have started to admit that women my age — 43 — can still be desirable. It’s basic human nature to want to be thought attractive, and it would be nice to have the media affirm that beauty exists in other than 22 year old blonde cheerleaders. I’d be happier if it weren’t like this, but maybe it’s sort of a kinda start.

  24. I just saw the article in the NYTimes Sunday edition. The thing that kills me is, in Europe there would be absolutely no reason for surprise or amazement when a 50-plus years-old woman is portrayed as a femme fatale, sexy and desirable. (Catherine Deneuve? Sophia Loren?)

    I did notice that the writer thought it interesting that young men might like this porn because they fantasized about sex with “women old enough to be their mothers”. Why no remarks about porn’s very long history of encouraging men to fantasize about sex with “women young enough to be their daughters.”?

    Speaking as a woman in her 40’s whose recent boyfriends have all been in their 20’s, I can confirm that lots of young men are wildly attracted to middle-aged women. It’s a natural thing; after a woman reaches menopause, she can relax and enjoy sex without fear. Meanwhile, the young men need a lover who will enjoy their untrained enthusiasm and also teach them to be good lovers. Works for everyone!

  25. to quote robin morgan or andrea dworkin :
    “Pornography is the theory rape is the
    practice.”
    20% of reported rapes are women over 60.(that was in the 1990’s)
    rape is not about sex it is about degrading humiliating a being.

  26. Twisty has implied before that she’s a lesbian. There’s a search function on her page.
    For example,
    When Stingray and I tire of traipsing around SoCo arguing about which one of us is gayer

  27. There are a few porn movies made by feminists and porn magazines as well. You may have more luck with erotica(written porn). But a problem is that all the bad porn drowns out the few bits of porn that aren’t completely vile and may in fact have some redeeming feminist value.

  28. It’s a natural thing; after a woman reaches menopause, she can relax and enjoy sex without fear.

    I think we can recognize that older women can be sexy without dissng the young’uns. And without assuming that there is no possibilty of exploitation in older/younger relationships if you switch the genders around. (No, Auntie Social, I’m NOT accusing you of being a predator.)

    I’m a product of the 1980’s brand of feminism, and I absolutely will not ever under any circumstances consider porn anything but degrading and misogynist.

    Oh dear. I’ll have to go turn my copy of Bend Over Boyfriend 2 to the Committee then, will I?

  29. Anna, ah, yes, you are the last to know. And Flamethorn, Twisty has gone beyond “implying.” Not news any more. But I don’t think she thinks it’s the most important thing about her, and thus, the thing she should always be mentioning. I think, y’know, she’s used to it by now.

  30. mythago: yes. and i’ll have to throw “Sugar High Glitter City” and “How to Fuck in High Heels” on the pyre after it.

    anyone see “Shortbus,” p.s.? (i still haven’t)

    and yes, it is pathetic that women over 40 (40!) aren’t considered “sexy” in this country. hell, I’m just rewatching “All About Eve,” which is all about aging (female stars); Bette Davis is smokin’.

    late Tina Turner; Ann-Margaret in her golden years. seriously, what’s wrong with us?

  31. I don’t get the Times or read it much, but I am always aghast at the articles that are brought to light here. For a newspaper that gets so much honor as a rag of High Thoughts, I can’t believe how much it really doesn’t deserve such a title.

    Although I am all for women defying the stereotype of being used up after 30, I also have a trouble with women willfully adopting their sexuality as the main focus of their identity.

    Whether at 20 or 60, a woman, just like a man can, should be able to keep their sexuality private and be able to pursue any number of activities and sports that have nothing to do at all with their sexuality — and have fulfilling and exciting lives.

    In order to pursue such, that usually means leaving the skirts and high heels at home and also often means not needing a man to approve, in other words wanting to pursue or be financially independent. Once a woman has reached 40, I would like to think she can begin to cultivate and build on the wisdom she’s accumulated over the years and be respected for that.

    But then again, woman aren’t supposed to accumulate wisdom or have anything to share other than their bodies. My bad.

  32. You know, as a person raised self-righteous Catholic, I know how behind and ignorant I am in terms of porn. During puberty, I was the snotty jerk telling people that porn is wrong because God (the Pope) said so. Even when I began expanding my sexuality later on, I felt that the people around me at college were all porn addicts, and I would shy away from everything relating to porn because I felt it was all too voyeuristic for me and wasn’t anything I wanted to have anything to do with.

    That said, um, there’s a porn called “Sugar High Glitter City”? Wow. That one’s got me very…inquisitive. Heh.

  33. I enjoyed it. Some bits better than others. It’s fun. i like S.I.R., anyway.

    there’s one (different makers) called “The Crash Pad” that’s supposed to be amazing, but i haven’t seen it.

  34. There are a few porn movies made by feminists and porn magazines as well. You may have more luck with erotica(written porn).

    Can anyone recommend some erotica a feminist literature nut would like?

  35. You know, Jack, the other night I was lying in bed and my husband yelled at me to come look at something “cool” he was watching on the computer. It was accompanied by very porny music, so he felt he had to mention that what he was watching was not indeed porn…but that got me thinking. I’ve never seen porn that I would call “cool.” That seems like it could be fixed. Something called “Sugar High Glitter City” sounds like it might fill that particular niche however. Sex is pretty amazing, after all – why isn’t there any porn that makes me go “Whoa, that’s amazing!” ?

  36. Generally stigmatized (still), it gets shoved into narrow and conventional (which yup means misogynistic often enough) little boxes, made on the relative cheap, etc. etc.

    funny; i’ve seen that question also asked about SF and horror (to a lesser extent); i think the answer is the same, and actually for some of the same root cultural reasons.

  37. I’ve never seen porn that I would call “cool.”

    Me neither. Nor porn that I could get aroused from, except the porn that my SO and I have created. Plus, as I’ve learned more about the industry, I realized that I could never watch porn without thinking what specifically has happened to the people making it, let alone derive pleasure from it, since my pleasure may come from someone else’s pain. I never want to buy into that. That is, though, my own opinion.

Comments are currently closed.