In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Lesson of the Day: Knowing When to Stop

It’ something that our little friend Gary Miller could stand to learn a little more about. He wrote an asinine opinion column for NYU’s student newspaper, the Washington Square News, about how “girls” who go to clubs are stupid whores. I responded; he had something of a hissy fit in the comments (“Are you pretending your blog is the be-all and end-all of public discourse? Does it even get enough hits for an Alexa ranking?”); he inexplicably brought up Paris Hilton to strengthen his case; and he finally defended the column on the grounds that it initiated discussion — which, as I said in the other post, isn’t exactly a hallmark of fine journalism (the New York Post cover that photoshopped weasel heads on UN members also generated a lot of discussion; hopefully I don’t need to explain why it wasn’t exactly a high point in journalistic history).

And the fun didn’t stop there. Gawker nominated Gary for their weekly Great Moments in Journalism contest; Gary is so special that he won.

You’d think that after being publicly outed as a fool and as an embarassment to NYU and to the Washington Square News, Gary would have tucked his tail between his legs and laid low for a while. But it would appear that the word “humility” isn’t in Gary’s (admittedly limited) vocabularly. No, Gary feels that, after being strung up as a certifiable moron in front of hundreds of thousands of people, it’s probably best to respond by essentially saying, “But blogs are stupid.”

And good God it is glorious.

My last column made a lot of people angry. A blogger at Feministe.us named me “Asshole of the Week” and Gawker.com derided me with its weekly award for “Great Moments in Journalism.” It was a lot of negative publicity for a lowly college columnist. But I accepted it graciously, given the sources.

Gawker is promoted as “a mix of pop culture and media gossip,” offering articles like “No One Buys ‘Marie Claire,’ Possibly Because It Sucks” (Nov. 17), so forgive me if I don’t consider them the premier authority on proper journalism.

Right. How does a blog that’s entirely about media have anything to say about journalism?

The ordeal was made all the more embarrassing after I learned about the rigorous blogger certification process. You see, in order to become a blogger, you must first submit a request to God, via e-mail. If chosen, you’ll receive a reply within three days and a printable certificate. It will say: “Congratulations! Since you are a superior being, you may now begin writing daily judgmental diatribes about inferior mortals. And since you’re a natural-born critic, don’t worry, it won’t be necessary to include objective evidence in your arguments. You couldn’t possibly be wrong about anything. Keep up the good work at making Earth better!”

I think this is supposed to be funny, but given that it doesn’t make so much sense, I can’t bring myself to even crack a smile — my face is too twisted in a condescending brow-raised smirk. Because God said it’s ok. Or something.

I disagree with the way God selects bloggers. And I don’t think blogs should be taken too seriously, unless they provide reasonable evidence for any claims made. For example, if a blogger wishes to criticize a columnist’s opinion that women trade dignity for attention in nightclubs, it would be reasonable to cite a survey of female clubgoers that assesses their true motives. It would be unreasonable to claim that the columnist is bitter because the pretty girls wouldn’t date him in high school.

Let’s play a little game: It’s called “Words Gary Miller Uses Incorrectly.” Our first nomination: “Reasonably.”

rea‧son‧a‧ble  /ˈrizənəbəl, ˈriznə-/
Pronunciation[ree-zuh-nuh-buhl, reez-nuh-]
1. agreeable to reason or sound judgment; logical: a reasonable choice for chairman.
2. not exceeding the limit prescribed by reason; not excessive: reasonable terms.
3. moderate, esp. in price; not expensive: The coat was reasonable but not cheap.
4. endowed with reason.
5. capable of rational behavior, decision, etc.

Indeed, Gary’s evaluation of what is and is not “reasonable” makes little to no sense. If a writer bases his arguments on the premise that all “girls” who go to clubs have no dignity but are too stupid to know that they have no dignity, then it’s perfectly reasonable to point out that his reasoning is flawed. Which, if he actually read my post, is pretty much what I did, paragraph by paragraph — pointing out that all kinds of people like loud music, that adult women don’t need some college dude telling them how valuable (or value-less) they are as human beings, that adult women are rational decision-makers who generally know exactly what they’re doing, that it’s insanely stupid to make vast generalizations about slutty chicks fucking dudes at clubs and then crying for the next week because why didn’t he call?, that his entire column is a showpiece of misogyny, that “girls” who go to clubs are actual human beings and that these “girls” do actually have some degree of agency, and that people (like Gary) who dedicate so much time and energy to attacking a certain class of women probably have a bigger bone to pick with those women than just being irritated by their club-going, which ostensibly has absolutely no impact on his life.

Apparently, I should have just cited a survey.

This suggestion is so depressingly idiotic that I’m not even sure how to respond. First of all, surveys are pretty inadequate when it comes to addressing someone’s “true motives,” so Gary loses on that one — especially when the entire point of his original column is that “girls” are too stupid or deluded to know what they’re doing when they go to clubs. Second, citing a survey isn’t the greatest way of proving that something is unequivocally true. Sure, it can boost an argument, but it’s hardly a requirement when you’re making an obscenely obvious point. Gary also seems to be missing the whole point of a certain type of blogging, and of media criticism in general. The point is to pick things apart. You know, to criticize. To point out bias, idiocy, and occassionally highlight the good. Surveys aren’t an integral part of that, although they can sometimes be relevant. Of course, bloggers do a lot more than that, but it’s a substantial piece of what you’ll find on many political and media blogs. Most bloggers aren’t journalists, even if they take the title. I’ve certainly never positioned myself as an investigative journalist who goes out and takes or references surveys every time I think someone is a moron. I’m happy to simply point out their myriad moronic ways.

That’s not a legitimate form of criticism; it’s just immature. The difference between opinion writing and criticism is objectivity. Criticism must be objective and justifiable to be credible.

Back to our little game. First, “Legitimate.”

le‧git‧i‧mate  /adj., n. lɪˈdʒɪtəmɪt; v. lɪˈdʒɪtəˌmeɪt/
Spelled Pronunciation[adj., n. li-jit-uh-mit; v. li-jit-uh-meyt]
Pronunciation adjective, verb, -mat‧ed, -mat‧ing, noun
–adjective
1. according to law; lawful: the property’s legitimate owner.
2. in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.
3. born in wedlock or of legally married parents: legitimate children.
4. in accordance with the laws of reasoning; logically inferable; logical: a legitimate conclusion.
5. resting on or ruling by the principle of hereditary right: a legitimate sovereign.
6. not spurious or unjustified; genuine: It was a legitimate complaint.
7. of the normal or regular type or kind.
8. Theater. of or pertaining to professionally produced stage plays, as distinguished from burlesque, vaudeville, television, motion pictures, etc.: an actor in the legitimate theater.

Given that I didn’t break any laws and that I’m pretty sure I didn’t do anything in my post that differs from generally-held standards and principles of criticism (note to Gary: read up before you respond), I’m not sure how my very pointed and specific criticisms were illegitimate. If my whole post had been “Gary has a small penis,” then I could understand how it would lack legitimacy. Lucky for us, it was a little bit longer than that.

But let’s move on to our next word: “Objectivity.”

ob‧jec‧tiv‧i‧ty  /ˌɒbdʒɪkˈtɪvɪti, -dʒɛk-/
Pronunciation[ob-jik-tiv-i-tee, -jek-] Pronunciation Key
–noun
1. the state or quality of being objective: He tries to maintain objectivity in his judgment.
2. intentness on objects external to the mind.
3. external reality.

Gary claims that opinion writers are “objective.” Thanks to Facebook, I have discovered that our friend Gary is in fact a journalism major. This deeply worries me, and I have to wonder if Gary simply hasn’t been paying attention in class, or if the J department needs to do a massive overhaul in its curriculum. Objectivity, in a journalistic sense, means trying to present both sides of an issue equally and fairly. Most good journalists recognize that they cannot possibly be unbiased; however, they can try and make their articles as fair and balanced, and they do this largely by trying to separate their own opinions from the article. This is the exact opposite of what opinion writers do. Opinion writers need not present both sides of an issue as if they’re equally valid; they only need to present both sides in order to bolster one and take down the other. Opinion writers who claim to be objective are generally full of shit. And being full of shit is not particularly credible.

As for being justifiable, well, do I need to explain why photoshopping weasel heads on UN members is ridiculous? Does Gawker need to explain why writing things like

You girls are not humans inside a club; you’re commodities, like bottles of vodka, to be sold. And you unknowingly consent to this. A club’s success can hinge on the amount of girls inside. They sell you — you’re why guys pay to get in. To me, this is an extremely backward practice in our progressive country. But this position as a commodity is exactly what you girls crave, isn’t it? It plays right into your insecurities — it gives you a sense of importance and worth that you probably don’t find elsewhere. The truth is that you girls want as much attention as possible, short of becoming prostitutes, right? Don’t worry, Kanye West said it’s okay to be self-conscious.

and then quoting Dane Cook is embarassing? But hell, I did take the time to explain it. And justify it.

I could also question his use of the word “credible” here, but it’s too easy.

Blogs like Gawker claim to have “no pretensions to objectivity,” but they habitually disparage mainstream publications like the Washington Post. That’s fine, but if the writers at Gawker are not pretending to be objective, they shouldn’t pretend their criticisms are the be-all and end-all, let alone even remotely valid.

Again, Gary, we need to work on what we call “logical reasoning skills.” Also, “reading comprehension.” (You aren’t planning on taking the LSAT any time soon, are you? If so, for the love of God, get thee to Kaplan). Lacking objectivity does not make criticism invalid. Here’s an example: Hunter S. Thompson, one of the least objective journalists of all time. Another example: Muckracking (surely, Gary, you covered this in The Media in America). Not objective. Media critics like Eric Alterman, Noam Chomsky, Jay Rosen (also a blogger — does that discount him?), and Cynthia Cotts are not objective. In fact, it doesn’t take objectivity to legitimately criticize publications like the Washington Post, or your column in the Washington Square News. No one is pretending that their criticisms are the be-all end-all to anything — but just because we write them on blogs doesn’t make them invalid (cheatsheet for Gary). “Gary Miller is wrong because Gary has a blog and blogs are stupid” is an invalid criticism. “Gary Miller is wrong because what Gary wrote is demonstrably untrue and logically unsound” is quite valid.

In reality, many bloggers present nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions. So if they think they’re in a position to call something poor journalism — even if it’s a college newspaper column — they had better present some compelling reasons.

As opposed to the incredibly substantiated opinion that girls who go to clubs are slutty, right? Or the substantiated opinion that Gawker is worthless because they have a headline you think is dumb, yeah?

You’re damn right I’m in a position to call something poor journalism. I’m not any sort of superstar journalist, and I’m not going to post my entire resume, but suffice it to say that I’ve written a little bit and I’ve edited a little bit, for a few different publications. I’ve been in the same position as Gary; I’ve been in the position of his editor. I’ve studied journalism. I regularly read print media, and I regularly read media criticism. But that aside, Gary is under the impression that no one presented any compelling reasons for why his column was a stinking turd. Since Gary is obviously lacking in the reading comp department, I’ll outline:

1. How your girlfriend’s sister feels about how you feel about nightclubs is not a colorful anecdote. It is not relevant. No one cares, actually, and there’s absolutely no reason to include it in your piece.
2. Let’s start with the basics: most clubs are either 18- or 21-and-over venues, so we aren’t actually talking about “girls” here but, in fact, adult women. And while the term “girls” is properly infantilizing and therefore fitting given the tone of the column, it’s factually inaccurate.
3. I’m not sure in what alternative universe the Wednesday before Thanksgiving is the biggest party night of the year
4. The fact that some clubs have stupid names does absolutely nothing to support any point you’re attempting to make.
5. People go to clubs to get laid?! Next thing you’re gonna be telling me that people go to the mall to buy shit.
6. Prestige pricing is not, in fact, “the inverse of how prices are supposed to drive a market.” Nor is it in any way unique to clubs.
7. Women are not feeble-minded morons who need other feeble-minded morons who inexplicably have access to a college newspaper column to tell them why they go to clubs.
8. What Kanye West said doesn’t really matter, and definitely doesn’t make any sense here. At all.
9. The idea that all women who go to clubs go there because they’re idiots who have nothing to say is a completley unsubstantiated, depressingly stupid generalization.
10. The argument that loud music attracts morons is a really, really bad one.
11. Calling women “sluts” doesn’t do much for your point.
12. You obviously get most of your information about women from bad teen movies if you think that all “girls” who go to clubs go home with guys and then cry when the guys don’t call. Again, unsubstantiated, generalizing, and idiotic.
13. The fact that men buy women drinks in clubs doesn’t make it any more comparable to a brothel than standard dating does. Or marriage.

How are those for compelling reasons?

There isn’t a hierarchy of journalistic value when it comes to opinions — different publications should offer different, appropriate perspectives. As a 21-year-old undergraduate, I wouldn’t write a column about globalization and expect to be read over Thomas Friedman. WSN isn’t Gawker. Gawker isn’t The New York Times. A feminist blog isn’t WSN. Whatever the content of my columns, they’re aimed at a specific audience — NYU students. And I’d rather create controversy than bore them.

On the internets, we have a word for this: Troll.

But thank you, Gary, for pointing out that this blog isn’t WSN. Thank the sweet Lord for that.

As for creating controversy, there are more options than doing that or boring your audience. You could write something interesting instead of simply inflammatory. You could present a new idea. You could move past “Girls are slutty! Blogs are dumb!” and actually say something that is, as you put it, “legitimate” or “reasonable.”

Tucker Max, New York Times best-selling author of “I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell,” once wrote a column as an undergraduate that claimed all the students at the University of Chicago were ugly. He recently received a $300,000 advance for his second book. Regardless of his paltry subject matter, which has been criticized by countless bloggers, I consider him a very successful writer. His stories and opinions — whether they’re brilliant, idiotic or plain silly — are at least interesting.

This explains so much.

Anyone who considers Tucker Max to be the journalistic ideal — or even a model of a good writer — is probably the same kind of person who thinks that Carrot Top deserves a comedic award for his hilarious AT&T commercials.

It seems that anything that arouses contempt from bloggers is at least interesting. I’m well aware that my college column isn’t going to change the world, but I’ll definitely settle for interesting.

Interesting, huh? I’m not sure that this is the word you’re looking for, as it generally is taken to mean “satisfying of the mind.” Tucker Max may be a lot of things, but he is not particularly mentally engaging. Neither are you. Unless, of course, you mean “interesting” in the way that someone might read your column, smirk, and say, “Well that was… interesting…” as the most generous possible response.

I hope that your editor, or someone higher up than you at WSN, took you aside and had a little talk with you about journalistic ideals. Being “interesting” is important, but it’s not the only aim (and it’s especially sad when the goal is to be interesting, and you fall short of even that). You should actually have something to say. You should write with some integrity. You should be informative, compelling, thought-provoking — not simply provocative.

Because I get the feeling that you haven’t really grasped that concept yet, and that you think writing for Rupert Murdoch would make a perfectly good journalistic career. So when you wrote that you strive to be “interesting,” perhaps you were looking for something more along these lines.

Of course, the final irony is that you do exactly the same thing that you accuse blogs of doing: Criticizing without offering any sort of justification or pretense of objectivity.

For example: Your suggestion that all girls who go to clubs are big fat whores. Objective? Substantiated? Logical? Anywhere approaching a rational thought?

Or, “In reality, many bloggers present nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions.” As compared to your clearly substantiated opinions about women who go to clubs. Tell me, Gary, where did you purchase your skank-o-meter? Because I would love to know how you objectively measure these things.

Or, if you need another example, this entire column, which amounts to “I don’t like blogs because they make fun of me, so I’ll throw out some accusatory words even though I can’t be bothered to look up their actual meaning, and I’ll end up doing the exact same thing that I take such issue with Gawker and Feministe for doing.”

Cuz Gary is brilliant like that. Merry Christmas, kids. Gary Miller is the gift that keeps on giving. And since I wouldn’t want to leave Gary empty-handed, this one is for him:

UPDATE: According to a source that will remain anonymous, Gawker won’t post about Gary’s article because they said a) they were too busy laughing at him and b) they don’t want to encourage him. To quote my source, “it’s bad when gawker thinks you’re too pathetic to harp on.”


97 thoughts on Lesson of the Day: Knowing When to Stop

  1. All I can do is laugh. For real. Because ‘people say I suck so I’m going to write about them from my Not So Pedestal’ is fantastic journalism. I think the best bit was that I thought the whole purpose of columns in papers was to be about people’s opinions…word here being subjective. But, you know, I’m just a 23 year-old American Studies major.

  2. Note to self: Don’t get on Jill’s bad side, ever. I remain puzzled that bloggers still can be subjected to derision from people who happen to write for a newspaper. Hasn’t the whole “bloggers are just dumb people sitting at their computers” thing been fairly well put down?

  3. He’s basically given up on any point of being right, logical, or worthwhile at the point where he cites Tucker Max. His point is to be a jerk in print on the theory that other jerks will read his writing and if he decides to write a book, buy it.

    While this may be a successful strategy, it doesn’t really cotton to someone whose premise is that there is nothing more objectionable than exchanging “dignity” for material possessions.

  4. that is beyond annoying! my school paper inexplicably published something similar to that, some editorial where a guy who was (surprise!) discouraged by the fact that girls at bars were not interested in him proceeded to call every student with a social life a money-grubbing whore. check out my blog http://www.youngerwomenstaskforce.blogspot.com for more musings of a young nonprofit intern.

  5. You see, in order to become a blogger, you must first submit a request to God, via e-mail.

    LAUREN IS GOD! WORSHIP HER!

    So, he gets to form an opinion about women who go to clubs without conducting a survey to determine their true motives, but that’s the only way someone can criticize his opinion?

    Man, he’s thin-skinned. I hope he comes back here, too.

  6. Ha! I like how he thinks criticism is OK, as long as he’s the one handing it out. Naturally, one’s opinions are only valid if they’re in print. (Then he brings up Tucker Max, the pinnacle of journalism, whose criticisms are always objective…say what?)

    Also, I like how he talks about how slutty women who go to clubs to pick up men are (of course, the men aren’t sluts…they’re *real men*!). When women have sex, they’re “degrading” themselves.

    Crikey. I hope he comes back in here though, so I can laugh when his arguments get picked apart again.

  7. For example, if a blogger wishes to criticize a columnist’s opinion that women trade dignity for attention in nightclubs, it would be reasonable to cite a survey of female clubgoers that assesses their true motives. It would be unreasonable to claim that the columnist is bitter because the pretty girls wouldn’t date him in high school.

    …Wait, did Larry conduct a survey? I didn’t see any reference to that in his column.

  8. I didn’t realize that Jacob Davis at the University of South Carolina had a twin. I’m a little slow in responding the fun that is Gary Miiller, but I hadn’t realized his long-lost kinship to the USC’s favorite sterotype-mongering columnist. Has Gary Miller done his share of gay-bashing yet?

    Miss England, should smile, not speak
    Keep Plan B off counter, away from public use
    Darker side should come ‘out of the closet’

    When did university opinion columns become about hating women? This can’t be something new for this semester.

  9. I was thinking the same thing, Mary. It’s one thing if he finds the arguments arrayed against him flawed and wants to dispute them. But Miller appears to go beyond that to say that the very discourse that happens on blogs is invalid.

  10. I like how he suggests you cite a survey when his original column included exactly… oh let me count them… ZERO surveys cited. Dumbass.

  11. this is fantastic. i love points 1-13, especially 2, 11 and 13. women are girls, girls are sluts, sluts are prostitutes. i cannot believe he didn’t just lay low after the column, feministe post, and gawker award, though i’m so entertained i’m glad he didn’t stop.

  12. I feel sleepy and confused. Even if he had actual evidence that every single girl who goes to a club goes there to have random sex with guys they don’t know, why would we care? Unless we needed to remind them to always use condoms.

  13. Hehe. I kinda pity this kid: One of the unfortunate realities of the age of ubiquitous Internet is that you can grow up, but you won’t be able to outrun the dumbass editorial(s)/letters to the editor you wrote for the college paper way back when. Google is cruel that way.

  14. This guy is such an epitome of idiocy that we probably need a new word, hell, probably a new category just for him. When guys like him (who infact think they are the be-all, end-all of everything smart in this world) get so defensive, I always remember what one of my guy friends said to me: “When it comes to guy, the bigger the ego, the smaller the ….”. Whatever. I really hope he comes back and says something again and keep us entertained!

  15. You see, in order to become a blogger, you must first submit a request to God, via e-mail. If chosen, you’ll receive a reply within three days and a printable certificate. It will say: “Congratulations! Since you are a superior being, you may now begin writing daily judgmental diatribes about inferior mortals. And since you’re a natural-born critic, don’t worry, it won’t be necessary to include objective evidence in your arguments. You couldn’t possibly be wrong about anything. Keep up the good work at making Earth better!”

    I suppose that since Gary doesn’t write daily judgmental diatribes, he feels himself exempt from his own criticism? In his mind, it’s OK for him to write occasional judgmental diatribes about a large percentage of the population? Without his apparently much valued “objective evidence” and everything!

    I’m sure he thinks he’s made the Earth way better, though. After all, what improves the Earth more than telling women they aren’t human? That Gary, what a humanitarian! /sarcasm

  16. I think it is fairly clear he will not post here again. That pathetic and sad response is, in his mind, his getting the last word. A lot of “sluts” and “girls” handed his ass to him the last time. I suspect he’s far too much of a coward to come back here and post again. Afterall, (But I do hope he does. The lions have grumbly tummies.)

    But, I suggest sending this post to the editors. Since they are so interested in being “interesting” and are oh-so-full oh journalistic integrity (yeah. I had a hard time writing that out with a straight face) – then surely they’d publish it.

    Unless they’re chicken, of course.

  17. I’m working on a letter to the editor right now, primarily on the paper’s continued use of the word “girls” to refer to adult women. We’ll see what happens.

  18. Can Gary explain to us how going off on “girls” who go to clubs, and how they’re whores, is an example of quality journalism? And how Gawker is less authoratative on journalism since it’s, you know, fluffy, but getting all catty about whores in clubs is oh so serious?

    Maybe he can just keep spinning ’til he bursts into flame again. That’s always a fun show to watch.

  19. Wow….. good thing God approved me as a blogger. I’d hate to be a journalist with Gary giving them all such a bad name.

    I know a guy who really likes Tucker Max, but that’s because he thinks Tucker Max is “satire.” I don’t know that anyone who uses him as a validation of his incoherent defensive ramblings should be allowed a pen, typwriter, computer or any other writing implement. Maybe a crayon, so everyone knows it was written by someone with the reasoning capabilities of a below average 5 year old.

    At the very least they should stop publishing him, why are his editors letting him do this to himself? They must REALLY hate him.

  20. Since when does a person have to be an authority on journalism to express disagreement with an opinion column? What difference does it make if that disagreement comes in the form of another newspaper column, a letter to the editor, or a blog? How does that make the disagreement illegitimate?

    If I were riding the subway while reading WSN, and after reading Gary Miller’s column about how much contempt he has for women who go to clubs I exclaimed out loud: “Gary Miller is an idiot!” and it turned out he was sitting right next to me, and I proceeded to tell him in person how ridiculous and offensive and poorly written his column was, would he just sputter: “But, but, you’re just some girl on the subway! How can you pretend that your opinion is the be-all end-all, let alone even remotely valid!?!”

    How is that in any way a legitimate counterargument? Dude was obviously never on a debate team.

  21. Speaking of bursting into flames, (and I don’t mean to be disrespectful), but have any of you heard about this? Apparently, shortly before election day, a Chicago man committed suicide by self-immolation in protest of the war.

  22. Not to drift too far, but this reminds me, I sort of had the same problem while trying to explain to fanboys that no, I didn’t think that Sin City was the greatest movie ever, in fact, I would have walked out on it had I not been there with someone. When I explained that I found it to be nothing more than a two-hour paternalistic rape fantasy, they would start shouting at me that it wasn’t, because they, as men, decreed it as such, and I, as a woman, was not allowed to say that it was misogynist. Because who the fuck am I, anyway?

  23. Just because I used to be a student editor, I have to say this: let’s not confuse the opinions of the writer to be endorsed by the editors or to reflect on the quality of the rest of the newspaper. When I was an editor, it was always hard to get people to write articles (go figure, engineers don’t really want to write), so the few that actually did write usually got published. There was one guy who was a notorious conservative, who actually believed that all atheists were communists, and while we didn’t print all of his rantings, we did print a lot.

    Personally, I don’t have a problem with the editors for printing this. True, the guy is a misogynistic idiot, but printing articles like this may cause readers to take a moment and question their own beliefs. Should they not print opinions they disagree with?

    Anyway, my point is that I’m sticking up for the editors. It’s a pretty underappreciated job (at least on my campus it was). So kudos to them, I’m sure they are going to have fun sifting through all the angry letters this week.

  24. Look, G-Money, for a start, you could have tried bashing the men who go to clubs, for at least a sentence. Something like, “Between his truly offensive cologne, apparently a mix of toxic waste and baboon ejaculate, his tendency to plaster his hair with grease, his crass sexuality, and his awkward throbbing and bobbing to the music, a gent in one of these clubs resembles nothing so much as a pair of sweaty yak testicles–although our club-going friends smell worse and are possessed of considerably less esprit.” See, it’s fun.

    Here’s the survey Gary wants asked of these women in teh clubs: “Are you a) a dumb ho, or b) a big ol’ slut?”

  25. Even if he had actual evidence that every single girl who goes to a club goes there to have random sex with guys they don’t know, why would we care?

    Nice Guys™ like Gary just want make sure you know how distasteful they find it that you aren’t having sex with them, and that it makes you a slut. And we all know, Gary’s opinions bind the universe together. Those “girls” are threatening the very fabric of the cosmos!

  26. It’s been said already by Piny and someone else, but the usual phrasing is “The burden of proof is on the claimant.” That is, it’s up to Gary to prove himself right (by use of surveys, whatever), not up to Jill to prove him wrong. It’s impossible to reason with someone who makes unsupported claims and insists that he is right until someone else proves him wrong. Such a person does not understand logic or logical fallacies.

  27. Jill, I have to agree with Gawker. This dude just isn’t worth it. (And yet, I read and loved that entire post.)

    This is an excellent example of a Nice Guy(tm) who went over the edge.

  28. Objectivity, in a journalistic sense, means trying to present both sides of an issue equally and fairly.

    I have to take issue with this sentence. Objective is not to present both sides equally, but to present all sides with due weight. For example, when you speak about evolution, you don’t have to present Intelligent Design, even if the Discovery Institute feels so.

  29. Anyway, my point is that I’m sticking up for the editors.

    Not very effectively. If the paper is short on column space, would you print something libelous because it gets people thinking? How about an opinion peace from the local Grand Dragon wannabe about how black people should be exterminated?

    Somehow, I doubt it. I also really don’t see “it might get people to question their beliefs” as an extremely lame face-saving device.

    You may also have missed the original thread, where the actual editor posted in Gary’s defense with the ‘at least it got people pissed off’ argument.

  30. bobcat jones

    No, I am not affiliated with the WSN. But having been on the editorial side of a newspaper that published unpopular opinions, I can empathize with the editors. (If you’re still curious, it was the student newspaper of WPI. I would link it, but the poor website hasn’t been updated in ages.)

    Of course, my paper suffered more from student apathy than anything else. People were a lot more willing to write letters to the editor about opinions they disagreed with, rather than actually taking the time to write an article. Except the guy with the unpopular opinions. So I had to respect him for that at least, even if I disagreed with everything else he had to say.

  31. I have to say while Jill was very erudite in her comments, I found it a little… well… hmmm… lets just say, how would a fight between a 1 year old and a tank look? Something similar to this exchange, I assume.

  32. mythago

    I saw the other thread. I was just giving my perspective as well.

    It was pretty rough being an editor where everyone was either writing angry letters to the editor about one guy’s opinion or complaining because there was “nothing good to read” in a paper that they never bothered contributing to. As a matter of fact, so many students got angry about the one student’s opinions, that a forum was started and we started running a Point/Counterpoint column where the conservative faced off with another liberal. It was one of the more popular columns in the paper.

  33. If my whole post had been “Gary has a small penis,” then I could understand how it would lack legitimacy. Lucky for us, it was a little bit longer than that.

    no pun intended, right?

  34. But, mary, people aren’t complaining so much because GM’s opinions are unpopular, but because his columns are poorly reasoned and written. The misogyny is more a symptom or consequence of the overall low level of intellect and ability in the articles.

  35. When I went to clubs, I didn’t go to pick up random people to sleep with – I went to dance and hang out with my friends. The benefit of trouncing the self esteem of pricks like Gary was just a bonus to the fun.

  36. This is very entertaining, in a morbid way. Especially since I’m one of those “sluts” who likes to shake her tush on a dance-floor.

    I mean, wow, Gary Miller’s genius is making me re-think my entire existence!…

    Not.

  37. Yea, and it’s true that he has a lot of cheek complaining about bloggers who write better written items on a daily basis. Heck, I think my preliterate cousin’s baby writes better than him. Seriously, if he wants to have casual sex, why doesn’t he just try not being a toolbag instead of writing a dumb column about the sex habits of random people he doesn’t know?

  38. Mary, as one of the students who wrote to the WPI paper concerning the unpopular student writer in question, I feel I should point out that publishing an opinion piece that describes someone as a “lying whore” is objectionable all on its own, position on the political spectrum notwithstanding.

    (And “conservative” is a kind description of this student’s views. “Semi-literate dittohead tripe” would be more accurate.)

  39. Anyone who considers Tucker Max to be the journalistic ideal — or even a model of a good writer — is probably the same kind of person who thinks that Carrot Top deserves a comedic award for his hilarious AT&T commercials.

    …But also the kind of person who thinks Paris Hilton is immoral for making money by shaking her, um, moneymaker.

  40. It was pretty rough being an editor where everyone was either writing angry letters to the editor about one guy’s opinion or complaining because there was “nothing good to read” in a paper that they never bothered contributing to.

    I’m sure it is. That doesn’t mean every time an editor is criticized, we must rush to the poor overworked thing’s defense–especially if said editor later proclaims that their decision was A-OK because misogyny makes people think.

  41. jill,

    as much as miller deserved your wrath for a second time (as we know, the way to win an audience over is by writing a good probably unrelated second column, not by writing a lame and unfounded rebuttal to the reaction from the first), i really think you’re bringing your own self down by tearing it apart again, and at such great length. while i applauded your first post – thoughtful, thorough, and what everyone was thinking – the second seems unnecessary, too long, and overbearing.

    i really feel that your deconstructing of miller’s copy has nothing to do with feministe, but maybe i’m wrong? a quick tour around the site didn’t unearth any mission statements, but i’m guessing that ‘feministe.us’ has more to do with feminism and less to do with copy-editing, at least in those instances that the latter has in no way anything to do with the former. i think another thoughtful post mentioning the update on the story in the context of another topic would have been nice (or maybe a brief update post without the extensive analysis of what was really a wet-rag set of excuses that amounted to little in the first place), what we got was a long-winded dissection and a kick-him-while-he’s-down. the analysis in your first post was appropriate (yes, used correctly) and entertaining; the second, debatable and boring. i really didn’t see anything from your second post that i didn’t already see in the first.

    so please, don’t let your runaway snark get in the way of a good critique (or stretch it out past its expiration date. it’s ephemeral stuff, that snark). i can hardly believe you even used miller’s gawker ‘award’ as fodder for the suggestion that he’s an (admittedly) underdeveloped writer who needs more direction (and tact and originality). while miller failed to make the point (well enough, that is) that gawker fame is less embarrassment than a warholian 15 minutes of fame (after all, everyone turns in a poorly-written clip on occasion, especially early in their career. even you have, dear), you’re right that it was no true honor. but let’s be frank: it’s safe to say that a significant portion of miller’s gawker votes were made by friends and coworkers. surely no one in media or trolling gawker cares enough about the WSN to vote the somewhat naive, somewhat confused new writer in. it’s much more offensive to see that level of journalism from a TIME writer. miller knows he’s not dan barry. it would be nice to see him write like that. but to expect it? i hold his editor more responsible for what’s printed on the page.

    forgive the length of this comment (and lack of caps), but i felt the need to say something. with that in mind, i urge you to write WSN with a solution to what you’ve mentioned before as a problem in the op-ed section, as opposed to the girls/women issue. i’m pretty sure that would make a bigger difference.

    -a former colleague.

  42. it’s much more offensive to see that level of journalism from a TIME writer. miller knows he’s not dan barry. it would be nice to see him write like that. but to expect it? i hold his editor more responsible for what’s printed on the page.

    Editorialiste, you can polish a turd all you like, but it’s still a turd. Miller turned in two poorly-reasoned, ill-considered extended whines about what a victim he is. About the only thing the editors could have done to save them was to spike them.

    i really feel that your deconstructing of miller’s copy has nothing to do with feministe, but maybe i’m wrong? a quick tour around the site didn’t unearth any mission statements, but i’m guessing that ‘feministe.us’ has more to do with feminism and less to do with copy-editing, at least in those instances that the latter has in no way anything to do with the former. i think another thoughtful post mentioning the update on the story in the context of another topic would have been nice (or maybe a brief update post without the extensive analysis of what was really a wet-rag set of excuses that amounted to little in the first place), what we got was a long-winded dissection and a kick-him-while-he’s-down. the analysis in your first post was appropriate (yes, used correctly) and entertaining; the second, debatable and boring. i really didn’t see anything from your second post that i didn’t already see in the first.

    Funny thing about Feministe: it’s a blog. And we write what we like here.

  43. 3. I’m not sure in what alternative universe the Wednesday before Thanksgiving is the biggest party night of the year
    8. What Kanye West said doesn’t really matter, and definitely doesn’t make any sense here. At all.

    Thank you because frankly, I was extremely puzzled by those sentences, thinking I was much older than I really thought I was. That I was the only one who on Wednesday is exhausted from a flight across country or a long drive to grandma’s house for hours of obligatory family “fun”.

    Possibly poor Gary’s family has renounced him and thus he doesn’t experience the ritual Thanksgiving family reunion feast that the most of us must endure — hopefully without a raging hangover. This may also explain his confusion about the type of women who hang at “clubs”, considering that on a Wednesday before Thanksgiving only the sadly addicted or coldly business minded would be scouting Mr. Miller at the local dance joint.

    And I thought I missed something big in popular culture since I couldn’t remember hearing that Kanye West has spent his career bolstering the esteem of club-going women. Especially since he didn’t bother to explain this West-club-going link, must be as well known as the fact that butter is light yellow.

    Tucker Max is a self loathing, pathetic ass who knows he’s a pathetic ass and knows also that a pathetic ass is what many men think they are as well. That he sells speaks volumes about what men really think of themselves. That Miller worships him speaks volumes about him as well.

  44. Just because Jill writes for a feminist blog doesn’t mean she can’t write about anything that isn’t obviously or overtly “feminist.” I mean, if that were the rule, we’d be without zuzu’s delicious pilot-bashing.

  45. Tale of a Bumble haircut and a bungled dye-job
    The horrowing story of one senior’s journey to blonde and back

    by Jill Filipovic
    September 07, 2004

    I’ll admit it: I can be a little bit vain about my hair. But what can I say? Except for the exceptionally humid days when it explodes into a puff of frizz, my hair is well-behaved. Or, at least, perfectly misbehaved.

    It’s a wavy-curly mess, but I never have to blow-dry it, and styling only entails a flip of my head. My hair is good to me, and if I was a more grateful person, I would have been good to it in return.

    But I got bored.

    It’s my hairdresser’s fault, really. I’ve had the same head of mousy-brown hair all my life, so when my friend Jesse told me he was training at a trendy new salon in SoHo where they had great color, and that he could get me a steep discount on highlights, I agreed. My birthday was coming up, I reasoned, and I should go into my 21st year with bright, beautiful, highlighted hair. So I made the appointment.

    In the meantime, though, I cheated on Jesse.

    I knew it was wrong, but the offer was too good to pass up: a free haircut from the Bumble & bumble Model Project. Students at the school cut your hair at the downtown salon, and you walk away with a Bumble-quality haircut minus the triple-digit price tag.

    I just couldn’t say no.

    The day before my appointment at Bumble & bumble, their receptionist called to inform me that the stylists-in-training had their flight delayed en route to New York, and wouldn’t be able to make it…

    And blah blah blah blah blah blah.

    Wow, now that’s something… I for one, got teary-eyed.

    You know, so much of my criticism here really is based on assumptions — mainly the assumption that I take my column seriously. Another assumption is that I’m DYING to become a professional journalist.

    But hey, if Jill can go from a “let me tell you about my haricut” column to “awesome Alexa ranked feminist blog” who knows what’s possible for ME in the future…

    Really though, my only hope is that in a couple years I will be as repulsively arrogant as Jill.

    I hope you’ll critique my next week’s column. Your haircut column gave me a great idea — I might write a detailed account of doing my laundry.

  46. In all fairness to Gary, I’m sure those of us have written some pretty vapid shit in our quest to Be Heard and Appreciated. Most of mine you can find on this blog, but hey, I once published an article on how guys should not hit on girls at parties. It included bits and pieces on why one should button up his shirt and how tit-gazing and beer-spilling on your beloved aren’t charming techniques for lady-catching.

    And guess what. The letters poured in, rightly telling me how shallow and stupid my op-ed was, how heavily I relied on stereotypes and one-sided representations, and how I was insulting the intelligence of the audience I was trying to connect with — and it made me rethink the purpose of my piece. In this case it was simple: I had a deadline. I wrote something crappy to meet the deadline, it was edited and printed, but lo, still crappy. Was I pissed that everybody and their drunk asshole brother called me out on it? No. I knew it sucked. It’s still embarrassing.

    Unlike poor Gary, this was before college newspapers realized that the internet was something they might work with, so the days of automatic syndication and cache archival were yet to be realized. That was my beginner’s luck.

    And really, it’s too bad Gary is more stuck on defending himself than in taking an honest look at what he writes, how condescending it is to his own audience, and how tired and overdone in no way means “interesting” or “controversial.” It’s still tired, overdone, and as in my case, crappy work. I imagine a student bright enough to get into NYU could do better, but he seems to think that mediocre is good enough. If it’s a gig for his resume, sure, okay. But his future employers have access to Google just as well as we do, and a mindful employer isn’t going to be impressed unless Gary shows a real arc of growth, not only in his writing but also in his rhetoric.

    I see Wikipedia in Gary’s future if he keeps this up.

  47. Eh. “Editorialiste” may think this was a waste of time, but I happen to think that this was the most beautiful goddamn thing I’ve read in quite some time.

    (It’s also kind of necessary – I mean, really, why has no one called this guy on his crap before her? And what if someone had spoken up and called Bill O’Reilly what a pathetic hack he was, way back when, before the ego got way out of control? Jill could be – potentially – saving an entire generation from the misogynistic rantings of an irrational, whiney hack, by doling out this (much needed) constructive criticism. The take-no-prisoners approach just gets her stylistic bonus points. Brava!)

  48. I’m working on a letter to the editor right now, primarily on the paper’s continued use of the word “girls” to refer to adult women. We’ll see what happens.

    Yeah, I was actually kinda wondering about that. Definitely something to be called out.

  49. I think the Editorialiste and Tony should consider starting their own blog. They can be terribly, terribly serious all the time there, and never waste their time on frivolities.

    P.S. A takedown by Jill is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

  50. but hey, I once published an article on how guys should not hit on girls at parties. It included bits and pieces on why one should button up his shirt and how tit-gazing and beer-spilling on your beloved aren’t charming techniques for lady-catching.

    Oh, sweet God, LINK. That must have been before my time.

  51. “how old is this guy?!”

    He must be college-age so roughly 18-22? He’s just a little boy! There’s nothing about him that should be taken seriously!

    (what’s good for the goose . . . )

  52. i’m surprised that miller didn’t stretch his logic further with something along the lines of “adult women are girls-girls are stupid sluts-blogs are also stupid-a lot of men try to get laid via the internet- therefore girls who write blogs are stupid sluts who are trying to get attention from men who are only interested in having sex with them via the internet.”
    that sounds airtight.
    but let me ask you this, ladies, after you cyber with that hot rich guy and he doesn’t e-mail you for a week, who are you going to blame then?
    yourselves, slutty girls. shouldn’t have been blogging like that and with your opinion hanging out!
    tsk.

  53. He must be college-age so roughly 18-22? He’s just a little boy! There’s nothing about him that should be taken seriously!

    (what’s good for the goose . . . )

    Nice.

  54. Wow, now that’s something… I for one, got teary-eyed.

    You know, so much of my criticism here really is based on assumptions — mainly the assumption that I take my column seriously. Another assumption is that I’m DYING to become a professional journalist.

    But hey, if Jill can go from a “let me tell you about my haricut” column to “awesome Alexa ranked feminist blog” who knows what’s possible for ME in the future…

    Really though, my only hope is that in a couple years I will be as repulsively arrogant as Jill.

    I hope you’ll critique my next week’s column. Your haircut column gave me a great idea — I might write a detailed account of doing my laundry.

    Dude, I hear ya. The “bungled dye-job” article sucked ass. I knew it sucked ass when I wrote it, and I knew it sucked ass when it was published.

    And if Lisa Fleisher is reading this, I hope she will vouch for me when I say that I never wanted to write that article, and that I dug my heels in every step of the way (or Shankar? Bret? Anyone? Do you remember this?). But I had written about my fucked-up hair on my old blog (yes, really), Lisa (the WSN managing editor at the time) read it, and needed to fill the back-to-school issue, so she asked me to turn it into a feature. I told her the idea sucked. She said she thought it was funny, and that either way, she just needed to fill the space. So I wrote it, under the condition that it be placed in the very back, near the sports section. It was, along with a giant picture of me to take up as many inches as possible. And it was humiliating. Even Dick Blood made fun of me.

    But you know what? He was right. And I didn’t respond by writing another feature about how people who criticize me are stupid. I was also criticized for a lot of my columns. And there are a lot of things I would have done differently if I could do it over again. But I learned from it. I disregarded the criticism that I thought was invalid, and I took to heart that which I thought would help me in the future. You are free to do with this criticism what you want — and you’re certainly welcome to disregard it and call me arrogant.

    But one thing I did do right was take my column and my position seriously. I’m sorry that you don’t, and I assumed wrongly.

  55. You know, so much of my criticism here really is based on assumptions — mainly the assumption that I take my column seriously. Another assumption is that I’m DYING to become a professional journalist.

    Either you are a serious journalist and deserving of criticism, or you’re a lightweight without anything valuable to say. In other words, either slut-shaming is something you shouldn’t do, or slut-shaming is something you shouldn’t defend. Pick one and stick with it. Stop complaining about how stupid we are for attacking your entirely valid arguments that don’t really mean anything anyway.

  56. And if Lisa Fleisher is reading this, I hope she will vouch for me when I say that I never wanted to write that article, and that I dug my heels in every step of the way (or Shankar? Bret? Anyone? Do you remember this?).

    I wasn’t in the newsroom when said heel-digging took place, but I remember Jill agonizing to me over IM about the publication of this piece.

    You know, so much of my criticism here really is based on assumptions — mainly the assumption that I take my column seriously.

    Not that what I say or think carries much weight at the WSN any longer, but when I ran your section, I’d have fired a writer who made this admission in a public forum.

  57. What piny said.

    Also, I haven’t read Jill’s piece about her botched hair-cut, and don’t see any links, but a talented writer can write about something trivial and still do it well. In fact, it can be done brilliantly (see, e.g., Orwell’s essay on “The Art of Gill McDougal”), or at least wittily. People aren’t criticizing you, G-Money, because you wrote on a trivial subject.

  58. It is telling that Gary’s response here still doesn’t refute the actual substance of the arguments marshalled against him, but is yet another totally-unrelated personal attack. You can just see him going through archives, saying to himself, “I’ll find something Jill wrote that was lousy, and that’ll show ’em!” as if that somehow proves that everything he said in his original opinion piece was true. (huh???)

    Or I guess he’s trying to say that, because Jill wrote a lame article once, she can’t ever have anything substantive to say on any topic for the rest of her life. Got me thinking about the pathetic research methods essay I wrote during comprehensive exams (the torturous several days of testing on everything ever done in your field, ever — required for many PhD programs). Mostly I did well, but my committee rightly called me on that one. It was the last day, I was tired, knew it sucked when I wrote it. But it’s not like now, any time I submit a research paper for publication, the reviewers come back with “you wrote a crappy methods essay once, so we’re not even going to address this article, we’ll just assume you suck for now and all time.” No, they actually read what I submit and review that particular piece on the basis of its own merits and shortcomings. Too bad Gary won’t do the same — I imagine he realizes that he really can’t.

  59. I guess I missed the part in your hair story where you insulted an entire gender based on gross distortions, exaggerations, flat out lies and stereotypes Jill. Therefore, Gary, I fail to see the comparison. One is a fluff piece, meant to be fun and one is insulting to pretty much all women.

  60. You know, so much of my criticism here really is based on assumptions — mainly the assumption that I take my column seriously. Another assumption is that I’m DYING to become a professional journalist.

    Is this really coming from a journalism major? WTF???
    Let me be polite and tell you that if you have any plans of becoming a journalist, a pr person or get any other job related to journalism, you’d better reevaluate your position if you don’t take the columns seriously. They can, and might just, be used in evaluating you in the future.

  61. Anyone who uses the phrase “amount of girls” should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class.

  62. Anyone who uses the phrase “amount of girls” should be immediately expelled from college and forced to repeat 8th grade English class.

    Nu-uh, Physio Prof. Cause girls aren’t really, you know, people

  63. Gary, I related to Jill’s column about hair. We have all had bad haircuts. However, it seems fair to say that most of us cannot relate to your article about women in clubs. What you said either 1. relates equally to men in clubs, which you chose to ignore; 2. is a patent falsehood or, at least 3. a gross generalization that does not apply to all female clubgoers. As you see above, some of us have done a lot of clubbing while choosing to pick up guys for casual encounters elsewhere or not at all. It is better to write something trivial but true than untrue and merely revealing your own prejudices and assumptions about people of a different gender, when you could not possibly actually know the empirical truth (i.e. how much hooking up is really going on – you didn’t follow up and interview people who left together I presume-, what do the people involved want or expect out of the experience, how does it make them feel about themselves – you wrote like you know all this stuff and you don’t). At least Jill knows what happened to her hair, so she is more qualified than the Pulitzer Prize in journalism so far.

  64. Norah, number vs. amount has nothing to do with personhood and everything to do with countability.

    Girls (like apples or puppies if they hold still long enough) are countable: You can have one girl, six girls, or several girls. Therefore, we use number to discuss an undetermined quantity of girls.

    Rice, Flour, or, ummm… I guess scorn are non-countable: We can have a lot of each, we can have several units of rice and flour (not sure about scorn), (one grain of rice, one cup of flour) but we can’t have one rice, or one flour, or one scorn. We therefore use “amount” when discussing an indeterminate quantity of any of these things.

    /moment of ghastly grammatical pedantry.

  65. Yes, jennie, but referring to an “amount of girls” is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts – the effect is to deny subject/personhood.

  66. Thanks, PhysioProf! My editing students will be most relieved to know this.

    micheyd I suspect that you might be reading too much into a lamentably common usage slip. I see number and amount conflated all the time, by people who simply don’t know the difference between a count and a non-count noun.

    Interestingly, I’ve seen it most frequently with the noun people, of late. A lot of sentences like “A large amount of people gathered to watch the government official cut the ribbon.” These authors aren’t denying the personhood of the people, they’re simply being ungrammatical.

  67. Yes, jennie, but referring to an “amount of girls” is a quick and easy objectification, since mass nouns l(ike rice and flour) are always not individually determined, therefore lacking identity. Same principle behind referring to women by their body parts – the effect is to deny subject/personhood

    Yeah, which is was li’l Gary did in his original article, since Jennie’s correct definition of amount vs. number makes no sense when applied to Gary’s perspective. I know the difference; he clearly doesn’t.

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