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Fact-Checking Lazy Sexist Assumptions

You’ve probably heard someone make the assertion that women use 20,000 words and men only use 7,000 or thereabouts. And you’ve probably wondered exactly where that statistic comes from, because the person citing the stat typically waves in the direction of “studies” to support it. But, you know, it sounds like it might be right, because everyone knows women are more verbal than men, right?

Well, not exactly.

It’s easy to see how funky numbers about an exotic language can turn into an urban legend. But it might surprise you to find apparently authoritative sources doing the same thing with basic facts about your own language use.

Here’s one example: Over the last 15 years, a series of books and articles have told us that women talk a lot more than men do. According to Dr. Scott Halzman in Psychology Today, women use about 7,000 words a day, and men use about 2,000. On the other hand, Ruth E. Masters, in her book “Counseling Criminal Justice Offenders,” tells us that “Females use an estimated 25,000 words per day and males use an estimated 12,000 words per day.” And according to James Dobson’s book “Love for a Lifetime,” “research tells us” that God gives a woman 50,000 words a day, while her husband only gets 25,000.

A bit of Googling easily turns up at least nine different versions of this claim, ranging from 50,000 vs. 25,000 down to 5,000 vs. 2,500. But a bit of deeper research reveals that none of the authors of these claims actually seems to have counted, and none cites anyone who seems to have counted either.

Fancy that.

Sounds a bit like one of those “just-so” stories explaining why women “naturally” are better with children or men “naturally” succeed in math and science fields — you know, the ones that don’t take culture or discrimination into account.

It also sounds a bit like that bit from the Newsweek story claiming that women had a greater chance of getting killed by a terrorist than of getting married after age 35. After a great hue and cry and numerous debunkings of that story, it still circulated, and it took Newsweek 20 years to own up to the fact that someone just slipped that into the story because it “sounded right.”

There are plenty of other examples of this kind of thing — Catharine MacKinnon saying all sex is rape, or Al Gore claiming to have invented the Internet — things that are false, but are repeated over and over without anyone bothering to fact-check them, passing into the realm of truthiness.

But now the Boston Globe has fact-checked a recent book making the claim that women just naturally talk more than men and use a far larger number of words per day than men do. And — surprise! — it’s pretty much unsubstantiated bullshit taken from another source that’s unsubstantiated bullshit.

The most recent to join the chorus is Dr. Louann Brizendine, clinical professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco. In her current best-seller, “The Female Brain” (Morgan Road), Brizendine tells us that “A woman uses about 20,000 words per day while a man uses about 7,000.”

“The Female Brain” has made quite a splash since its publication last month, and this word-count claim is one of the most striking facts supporting her argument that the female brain is “a lean, mean communicating machine.” The 20,000 vs. 7,000 numbers have been cited in reviews all over the world, from The New York Times to the Mumbai Mirror.

Since Brizendine is the director of a clinic at UCSF, one of the world’s most important biomedical research institutions, and her book provides 90 pages of endnotes and references to back up 180 pages of text, I hoped it would finally give me a reliable source for this statistic.

The book’s endnotes appear to attribute the numbers to a 1997 self-help book by Allan Pease and Allan Garner, “Talk Language: How to Use Conversation for Profit and Pleasure.” But Pease himself has presented several different word count numbers in other sources. In 2000, he published “Why Men Don’t Listen and Women Can’t Read Maps” (with Barbara Pease), which attributes to women “6,000-8,000 words,” while men get “just 2,000-4,000 words.” (They also offer daily counts for women’s and men’s “vocal sounds” and “facial expressions, head movements, and other body language signals”-but don’t provide a source for any of the counts.) In a 2004 CNN interview, Allan Pease said that “women can speak 20,000 to 24,000 words a day versus a man’s top end of 7,000 to 10,000.”

Somebody’s got an agenda:

Allan Pease is a prolific writer, and a sampling of his other recent titles gives a sense of his men-are-from-Mars, women-are-from-Venus philosophy: “Why Men Don’t Have a Clue and Women Always Need More Shoes”; “Why Men Lie and Women Cry”; “Why Men Can Only Do One Thing at a Time and Women Never Stop Talking.”

It just never fails to amaze me that more men don’t get outraged when people like this joker characterize them as grunting, lying, peabrained primitives. Is it just that women come off looking worse because they’re portrayed as greedy, acquisitive, hyperemotional chatterboxes?

You’ll note, as did Mark Liberman, a professor of phonetics and the writer of the Globe piece, that Pease’s word counts varied widely from published work to published work. Better studies over time might be one answer to that particular puzzle, but Liberman couldn’t find any cites to specific studies.

IOW, Pease pulled it out of his ass, and nobody questioned it because it confirmed the popular impression of women as too damn talkative and men as stoic and taciturn.

But, as Liberman points out, one’s ass is not the best place to look for accurate data:

As it happens, there are many scientific studies that count the words used by females and males in a variety of same-sex and mixed-sex interactions: phone conversations, interviews, group discussions, and so on. These are always time-limited situations-a few minutes to a few hours of talking-not recordings across the whole range of people’s daily activities. But together, these studies involve thousands of speakers of many ages, regions, languages, and cultures.

The findings? According to a 1993 review of the scientific literature by researchers Deborah James and Janice Drakich, “Most studies reported either that men talked more than women, either overall or in some circumstances, or that there was no difference between the genders in amount of talk.” The research since that review, including counts from my own research, follows the same pattern.

I haven’t been able to find any scientific studies that reliably count the entire daily word usage of a reasonable sample of men and women. But based on the research I’ve read and conducted, I’m willing to make a bet about what such a study would show. Whatever the average female vs. male difference turns out to be, it will be small compared to the variation among women and among men; and there will also be big differences, for any given individual, from one social setting to another.

Similarly, a claim by Brizendine that females use 250 words a minute and males 150 is wholly unsupported by the actual study she cites, which makes no such claim. Indeed, other studies of word rates have found that men speak slightly — and by “slightly,” I mean in the neighborhood of 2% — faster than women, on average. And that’s not even counting situational factors, such as speaking faster among family members than with strangers, or speaking faster when you’re nervous (or, for that matter, regional variances in speech patterns and rates. I grew up in New Jersey and Connecticut and speak faster when I’m nervous. There were any number of opportunities for speaking while nervous during law school, where I was surrounded by slower-talking Midwesterners who had a hell of a time understanding me when I got going).

Fact-checking standards for polemics and self-help books are pretty loose, but even when there’s a peer-reviewed study, journalists are pretty dreadful at conveying the actual facts of the study to the public.

The authors of self-help works, as a group, don’t seem to have any particular standards of accuracy. Journalists, meanwhile, generally take them at their word in reviews and interviews, and publishers are happy as long as the books sell well.

It’s a shame to see this approach to the facts spreading into the growing genre of books about the neuroscience of sex differences, where the facts can have real consequences.

This approach was described perfectly by Stephen Colbert in an out-of-character interview with the Onion A.V. Club in which he discussed truthiness:

It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that’s not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything. It’s certainty. People love the President because he’s certain of his choices as a leader, even if the facts that back him up don’t seem to exist. It’s the fact that he’s certain that is very appealing to a certain section of the country. I really feel a dichotomy in the American populace. What is important? What you want to be true, or what is true?…

Truthiness is ‘What I say is right, and [nothing] anyone else says could possibly be true.’ It’s not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There’s not only an emotional quality, but there’s a selfish quality.


29 thoughts on Fact-Checking Lazy Sexist Assumptions

  1. Liberman has devoted several Language Log posts to the Brizendine “language budget” nonsense. I’m glad he’s gotten a broader audience to refute the unmitigated horsepoop.

  2. Andrea Dworkin said all heterosexual sex is rape. Catherine MacKinnon said that all heterosexual men are rapists. Mary Daly said that all men, heterosexual and otherwise, should be castrated with rusty garden shears. And Simone de Beauvoir bathed in the blood of housewives every full moon. I mean, don’t you people read Mens News Daily?

    Seriously, though, I think that the accusation has been leveled at both of them, and might no longer belong more to one or the other; some people seem not to be capable of telling the two women apart. “MacDworkinites,” for example.

  3. I also love how, no matter what the “sex difference” claim, it’s always used to justify male superiority. Women are more emotional and better at group work, which justifies their positions as mothers and nurtuers, whereas men are more rationale and independent, which justifies their positions as heads of state and leaders. Now, flip it around and I guarantee that if a study came out saying that men are “naturally” better at group work and reading the feelings of others, that would be turned into a justification for their positions as leaders — after all, what’s a leader if not someone who can work well with others and balance multiple points of view?

    We see this all the time with the right-brain/left-brain stuff. The history of psuedo-scientific explanations for gender differences and essential characterists is always molded by sexism and existing ideas about women’s roles. We see it a lot in justifying the social control of women’s sexuality as well. On one hand, women are sometimes imaged to be sexually voracious in a way that men aren’t, which has historically been used to keep women out of public sphere and to justify patriarchal marriage practices. On the other hand, women have been imaged as naturally modest and fearful or disliking of sex, which has also been used to justify patriarchal marriage structures as well as men’s supposedly animalistic sexual appetites and their violent acts towards women (rape, etc).

    Similarly, I’ll bet anything that if the numbers pointed to men talking more, it would be twisted to mean that men are more intellectually-inclined and have better verbal skills than women, therefore justifying their social positions. When it’s women who talk more, we’re overly-emotional nags and gossips.

    No matter what the scientific “consensus,” you can bet it’ll be used to justify the status quo, and interpreted according to existing ideas about gender and women’s roles and attributes.

  4. But, as Liberman points out, one’s ass is not the best place to look for accurate data:

    says you! have you SEEN my ass?

  5. I think a lot of people are willing to believe that women speak so much more than men because most people feel like women are really chatty. However I think that we get the impression of women being more chatty than men not because women talk more than men, but because women talk more than we expect them to, and we expect them to talk less then we expect men to talk.
    We hear a man take 10 minutes to explain in uninterrupted detail why [x] is better than [y] and don’t think another thing of it, but when a woman dominates a conversation for a similar length of time we’re all thinking “gosh, does she ever just shut up!?!”

  6. wouldn’t it be a rather simple study to do?

    A computer could do this based on a recording.

    Just use common place speach recognision software… and a word count feature.

  7. Jill, I’ve seen a few articles about the increasing number of women in management that says women are better leaders in business fields because they’re intuitive & etc & that the coming century will be female-lead (and yes, by female-led they mean just about equal in terms of men and women in power), but yeah, such ideas are usually presented as “this is why women need to stay at home and make babies!” It’s fascinating.

  8. Actually, Jill, the one study I’ve read on this says men talk more. I need to look it up. But that’s with actual tape recorders and timers; everything else is confirmation bias. I’ll look it up. More later, here or at my blog.

  9. We’re not bullshitting, we’re discussing and debating vitally important issues like sports, and cars, and whether we’d do the new girl in accounting. It’s nothing like all the pointless gossiping you women engage in.

  10. Actually, Jill, the one study I’ve read on this says men talk more. I need to look it up. But that’s with actual tape recorders and timers; everything else is confirmation bias. I’ll look it up. More later, here or at my blog.

    There are studies which say that men talk more, as far as I can tell. And studies which say that women talk more. What I think is interesting is how the exact same basic conclusion — someone talks more — is used to draw far different social conclusions based on sex.

  11. No need for an extensive study or experiment.

    You can’t argue with what you see (and hear) when observing cell phones being used in public. So be a fly on the wall sometime. Go and check it out.

  12. As a business owner and someone who has to put together and manage large projects and in an industry dominated by men, I’ve been very mindful of this ‘bad talkaty woman’ stuff thrown at me.

    What I have found over the past years doing this is that men and woman all like to talk. Frankly, the diminishment of women as overly talkative I think comes down to the patriarchical norms that consider what women have to say as insignificant. Any amount of women talking is considered annoying ‘chatter’.

    A man who bends my ear on the phone or loves to stop to talk it up on the jobsite with everyone who passes by has something important to say, of course.

    Conversely, I’ve learned over time to say less and listen more, get to the point and move on. I usually don’t have time for much more.
    And when I do, most of the men I do business with enjoy the relational chit-chat just as much as any woman, often its good for business, I just ask questions and let them run on, much to their pleasure. So my anecdotal evidence negates the self helper findings.

    But then, I’m not out to sell books. I guess if I was looking to buy a big house on the ocean and a fancy car, I’d make sure to pose as a researcher and put together a slick piece that tells everyone their assumptions are true and thus they are smart and right on the cutting edge. Truth-telling doesn’t always sell too well you know.

  13. Jill, I’ve seen a few articles about the increasing number of women in management that says women are better leaders in business fields…

    And I’ve seen Mikey’s ass. It’s like a library.

  14. It just never fails to amaze me that more men don’t get outraged when people like this joker characterize them as grunting, lying, peabrained primitives. Is it just that women come off looking worse because they’re portrayed as greedy, acquisitive, hyperemotional chatterboxes?

    I think that a lot of men *do* get outraged about it, but really, who’s listening? I’m not going to claim that men are getting short shrift overall in our society by any means, but I certainly have seen an awful lot of people say things to the effect of, “[Real Man(tm) X] knows better than to talk about the plight of men around me,” to be met with with cheers of, “HELL YEAH!!!” from all corners. In a lot of avenues, men quickly learn to shut up about the concerns of men, sad and counter-productive as that may be.

  15. >>But, as Liberman points out, one’s ass is not the best place to look for accurate data:

    >says you! have you SEEN my ass?

    Last I checked, John Tierney was peeking around in somebody’s arse for something to refute that NAS study about women in science, and let me tell you, I don’t know what he was hauling away, but it sure stunk . . .

  16. g.r.l, Liberman (or one of his Language Log colleagues) has done that, or has looked into existing actual research on said topic. And there’s essentially no difference in male word counts vs female, or words per minute.

  17. Damned if I can come up with a cite, but a word-count/timed study of mixed gender classrooms in the mid/late ’80’s, done by a research team out of Wellesley College showed that perception of speech times was very gender related, and skewed toward the male. I do not remember the exact numbers, but what was most striking, and did stick with me, was that when the researchers forced exactly equal talking between male and female students everyone, male and female, including the teacher, regardless of gender, perceived the female students as getting more talking time than the males.

    I know of no studies of like kind outside the classroom, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the same perceptual skewing occurred throughout society.

  18. Dang.. I always thought men talked more. We always say “don’t get my dad started” and I said the same thing about my ex – cause once they start talking it could be HOURS before they’re done (and it talks about half an hour just to END the conversation “..hmm… oh it’s time to go…. we’ll we really should get going, Bob… but I just wanted to say… blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,…. 30 mins later *and I’m bored out of my mind and pissed that we’re late* well, see you later, Bob! Nice talking with you.”

    And my older brother is ALWAYS on his cell phone with SOMEONE.

    So in my little corner of the universe, it’s the guys who are chatty-charlies.

  19. You can’t argue with what you see (and hear) when observing cell phones being used in public. So be a fly on the wall sometime. Go and check it out.

    Well, if we’re using anecdotal evidence here, I live and work near a large university and see just around six out of ten people walking down the sidewalk with a cell phone plastered to their ear. This is men AND women. I thought that Stephen King’s cell phone zombie novel was pretty alarmist but still can’t help but think about that story every time my daily bus commute takes me through campus.

  20. You can’t argue with what you see (and hear) when observing cell phones being used in public.

    Yes, you can argue with it. It depends on where in “public” you are. In a car? a store? an office building? a gym? a restaurant? And what day and time is it? People talk on cell phones for lots of different reasons in lots of different environments at lots of different times.

    I wouldn’t use this kind of personal experience as proof of anything.

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