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Israel Enters Lebanon

Jill

Well this is just great. And kidnapping Israeli soliders and attacking Israeli towns? Also a genius move.

The New York Times has an editorial about it, but I think they miss the mark somewhat:

But even when acting justifiably in the face of aggression, Israel best serves its long-term security interests by acting wisely and proportionately. Its guiding principle must always be to focus military actions as narrowly as possible on those individuals, organizations and governments directly complicit in the attacks, while sparing the civilian populations that surround them.

That is, of course, far easier said than done. Military actions in inhabited areas cannot be fine-tuned. Yet surely the repeated lesson of recent history is that inflicting pain and humiliation on Arab civilians does not make them angry at the terrorists who provoked the violence. It makes them angrier at Israel.

It is too soon to judge how well Israel is hewing to this standard in Lebanon.

Heh. Well, let’s see: The Israeli army is obviously justified in attempting to rescue its soldiers, and in defending itself against the rockets launched from Lebanon by Hezbollah. Are they justified, though, in killing dozens of civilians, and in re-occuping parts of Gaza? Or for blaming the Lebanese government for the actions of Hezbollah, an independent militia that Lebananon doesn’t have much of an ability to control, and calling this an act of war on behalf of Lebanon?

Israel has to defend itself. Fine. But the method of “You take one of our soldiers, we kill 20 of your civilians” isn’t winning them any friends, and it’s sure not doing many favors for their national security.

And you know, if the governments of Lebanon, Syria and Iran are so concerned about the Palestinian cause, they could offer some actual help to the refugees, instead of just using them as political pawns. Just saying.

More.

Posted in War

20 thoughts on Israel Enters Lebanon

  1. Agreed.

    I cannot BELIEVE that we’re going in there again. And not just ONE hellhole-that-we-were-lucky-enough-to-get-the-#$#$-out-of. Oh no. We’re going back into Lebanon AND Gaza, becuase fighting against hopeless and angry militia in mostly-civilian territory is best done on TWO fronts at once!!!

    And of course, let us not forget – we’ve been there before!! We tried the whole “let’s crush them beneathe our heels so they will want to live peacefully and also work for us cheap” for years and years and years. All anyone got out of it, on both sides, was dead people. Kids, mostly – whether the 6-year-old civilian types, or the 18-year-old draftee or Hizballah fighter who joined because it was that or hang around the ruins of his village and eat dirt.

    I am so angrI I can barely write.

  2. Whoops – I accidently entered a mailto tag that goes nowhere. Could you please remove it?

    Thanks.

  3. >But the method of “You take one of our soldiers, we kill 20 of your
    >civilians” isn’t winning them any friends, and it’s sure not doing
    >many favors for their national security

    Who says that’s the Israel’s method?

    More accurate to say that Hezbollah’s method is to use the South Lebanese population as human shields – and that Israel does the best it can to avoid civilian casualties (cf. the assault on Jenin) …

    Anyone who wants to claim otherwise should provide a model of a military that did a more humane job fighting “irregular forces” like Hamas than Israel has done in the past 10 yrs.

  4. From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/index.html

    “Hezbollah, which enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran, is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon’s government.”

    If Hezbollah holds post within the Lebanese gov’t. then that makes them at least partially responsible for their actions….no?

    This situation scares me so much…I have family that lives in the area.

  5. If Hezbollah holds post within the Lebanese gov’t. then that makes them at least partially responsible for their actions….no?

    Yes and no. Members of Hezbollah hold some seats in the government, but they’re essentially an independent armed militia that the government has almost no control over. So their firings at Israel were not government-sanctioned actions, even if a few of their members do hold government posts.

  6. I admit my knowledge of the subject is shallow, but my impression is that a lot of groups in Arab politics have a political arm and a (para-)military arm, yes? The first groups that spring to mind are Fatah and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs or Hamas, for that matter. I imagine Hizbullah are organized along the same lines, and who knows what the actual power structures within those organizations are, vis-a-vis communication between the arms.

  7. But the method of “You take one of our soldiers, we kill 20 of your civilians” isn’t winning them any friends, and it’s sure not doing many favors for their national security

    Who says that’s the Israel’s method?

    Do you read the news? Hezbollah kidnapped a soldier. A soldier. A legitimate, military target. Israel killed civilians in response. That’s the way it always goes Israel. They make no effort to avoid civilian deaths; quite to the contrary, they enjoy using children for sniper practice. Here’s a humane model for you – maybe Israel should actually start following the Geneva Convention (which it signed), declare a border, and stay behind it.

  8. “That’s the way it always goes Israel. They make no effort to avoid civilian deaths; quite to the contrary, they enjoy using children for sniper practice”

    You had a point up until there. Do you actually, seriously believe that Israeli soldiers “enjoy using children for sniper practice”? Really? Or was that just hyperbole?

    That said, this whole thing is destined for tragedy. A too-large proportion of the Israeli government and military don’t give a shit about the Palestinians. A too-large proportion of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt don’t give a shit about the Palestinians, except to use them as pawns. Hell, a too-large proportion of the Palestinian leadership doesn’t give a shit about the Palestinians. They really are an oppressed group, in the true sense of the word, and the Israelis aren’t the only people oppressing them (though they’re certainly doing their part).

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  10. Israel is 100% in the right here. They’ve given up land, removed settlers, and even released over 100 prisoners in 2004. It doesn’t take a genius to tell us that rewarding terrorism generates more terrorism, and a disproportionate response is precisely what is required.

    Some say violence doesn’t solve anything with Hezbollah. I strongly disagree. In September 1985 four Russian diplomats were kidnapped in Beirut by Hezbollah. The USSR responded in kind by first abducting a family member of a Hezbollah leader and then killing him very, very gruesomely. The hostages were given back right away and Russia was never targeted in Lebanon again.

    While liberal democracies will not respond in the manner above, it falsifies the theory world-weary people have that violence creates more violence.

  11. Israel does have the right to rescue its kidnapped soldiers, but they must make sure in doing so they make every effort to limit the civilian casaulties. What is Israel doing though to curb any of the problems they face in their struggle with Palestianians? Threats to the elected gov. of the people, many palestianian young men sit in Israeli jails some guilty some not. While Israel has every right to defend itself there is apparently no limit to the amount of palestianian blood that should be spilled to rescue one Soldier. What Israel will learn is that no matter who backs them, what weapons they may have, they can no longer impose their will upon a whole race of people, they more than anyone should undserstand that. Oppression will always=aggression.

  12. “. In September 1985 four Russian diplomats were kidnapped in Beirut by Hezbollah. The USSR responded in kind by first abducting a family member of a Hezbollah leader and then killing him very, very gruesomely. The hostages were given back right away and Russia was never targeted in Lebanon again.”

    It depends on the circumstances.
    They were kidnapped because Hezb. was using kidnapping as a way of funding its operations and they reacted to this just like the businessmen they were. Since they were not emotionally committed it was easier for them to make that choice.
    Their kidnapping of Israelis is NOT business, its personal, and hence a lot more complicated and a lot less likely to be solved by simple violence. Compare to Chechnya, where its more emotionally raw and NOT just about $$$, and Russian brutality has hardly lead to a end to the conflict (and they are brutal – a favorite method of execution being to tie a person to two tanks and tear them apart).

  13. If the Palestinians and the Lebanese cannot control the actions of their people, and prevent them from rocketing Israel, those governments deserve to be overturned or destroyed. It’s time the Arabs start taking responsibilty for their own problems, and stop blaming Israel and the USA for them. The Palestinians elected a terrorist party as their legitimate government, now they reap what they sowed.

  14. What madness!

    Israel invades Gaza ostensibly to free one kidnapped soldier.

    The result a few days later: dozens of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians and several Israeli soldiers are killed, Palestinian and Lebanese infrastructure is destroyed and now more Israeli soldiers are held hostage! The United States, instead of standing up for decency, reason and commons sense, predictably supports Isreal’s actions! The “recruitment pool” for Muslim militants just got larger. And we wonder why the world increasingly distrusts the United States!

  15. If the Palestinians and the Lebanese cannot control the actions of their people, and prevent them from rocketing Israel, those governments deserve to be overturned or destroyed.

    The U.S. government couldn’t control Timothy McVeigh. If the U.S. government cannot control the actions of its own people, and prevent them from blowing up buildings, that government deserves to be overturned and destroyed.

    Care to reconsider your point?

  16. Timothy McVeigh was one man. Hizbollah is a political party that is part of the Labanese government. Hamas is the Palestinian government. Your comparison shows a total lack of understanding.

  17. Jack-

    Michael’s comment was about the actions of “their people.” Hezbollah is “their people,” and Tim McVeigh is one of “our people.”

    Obviously there’s a difference between a large terrorist organization and a group of individuals (McVeigh didn’t exactly work alone). My point, though, was just because a government is incapable of perfectly controlling organizations or individuals in its midst does not mean that such a government needs to be overturned and destroyed by an invading force.

  18. I disagree. Hizbollah and Hamas are part of those governments and should be destroyed. If the people of Lebanon and Palestine are unwilling or unable to purge these terrorist organisations from their respective governments, it is certainly unfortunate, but leaves the door wide open for Israel to accomplish the purge for them. Do you believe that Hizbollah has hidden 3000 rockets without the knowledge of the Lebanese authorities? Would you like to buy some land in Florida? (Alligators free)

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  20. If no one can controll the hizbollah and no one could disarm the terrorist groups for years, why anyone is suprised that israel has taken the task of protecting its citizens on herself?

    and why israel is to blame if hizbollah’s armory sits deep in the lebonease civilians, again, if lebonease cant stop them then someone must.

    but that dosnt matter, arabs will take over the world soon, eruope is particulary theirs, osama bombs usa, and everyone shouts at israel when they try (for the millionth time) try to act in such way that will allow jews to survive,

    because if it was up to the arabs jews were all dead. and now european’s dont allow jews to defend themselfs, this is really redicoules.

    worldwide opinion sucks, couse its all bullshit.

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