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Make Me More Like a Greek Woman

Jill

An op/ed in the Times this week is after my own heart — it looks at the problem of subway groping, and compares the reactions of New Yorkers and Greeks.

Around the same time, I spent eight months doing research in Athens, so I decided to record Greek women recounting narratives I could compare to the New Yorkers’. Since most of the subway stories were actually molesting stories, I asked Greek women if they’d ever been molested.

The experiences the Greek women described were similar to those I’d heard from Americans. But there was a difference. Most of the American women — like those recently interviewed in the New York news media — told me they had felt humiliated and helpless and had done or said nothing. Of the 25 stories Greek women told me, only eight concluded with the speaker doing nothing. In the others, she said she had yelled, struck back or both.

One Greek woman told of walking to school with a friend when they were 12 years old, and encountering a man who exposed himself. Their reaction? “We grabbed some rocks and started aiming at his head. … How we didn’t kill him I don’t know. We started to scream out loud.” Another said: “I have given smacks. I have given a punch to a sailor. I have given kicks.”

She went on to say that when she traveled she kept a rock in her pocket for protection, and she described how she used it on a repulsive man who had been dogging her and a friend on vacation in Venice.

I’m not a big fan of violence, but I do like to see women fighting back. Sure beats feeling powerless and humiliated.

18 thoughts on Make Me More Like a Greek Woman

  1. My mum got flashed by a guy, while she was out walking back from work in her nursing uniform. She said she gave him a friendly smile, and said, “What is that? It looks a bit like a penis, but it’s so….small.” She told me he wanted to make her scream, and she didn’t want to give him the satisfaction. And it phased him, he backed off, and she was hooting with laughter (her words).

    I’m not a big fan of small-dick-jokes, but I do like to see women fighting back. 🙂

  3. Considering the basic power differential between children and possible assailants/molestors, I think we might be handicapping them by telling them not to make a fuss. If more children in the States grabbed stones, screamed, and drove off anyone who behaved like that, would more or less children be harmed? If it works for children and women are frequently assaulted, why should women handicap themselves? It’s interesting, though, I’ve taken so many self-defense classes and I simply never considered grabbing a rock and chucking it.

  4. Not to post again, but I wouldn’t advocate a violent response to a flasher. What are we supposed to be so afraid of, the sight of a penis?? Take one step towards me and it’s a different story.

  5. How does Greece handle things like this in terms of legal action? Are the women embarrassed and made to feel like it was their fault if they report it, like they often do feel in the U.S.?

  6. Last summer, I was walking on the street, holding a large coffee I had just bought. Suddenly, a guy coming from behind me grabbed my ass and asked me ‘where I was walking with that nice ass of mine’. I was lost in my thoughts when it happened, and it surprised me so much that it made me screamed and jumped, which resulted in me throwing *very* hot coffee all over his face and shoulders. It was an accident, but I can’t tell you how much satisfaction I got from hearing him scream in pain as he got burned by the coffee.
    The best part? As I was walking away, laughing my ‘nice’ ass off, he screamed at me that he was going to sue me! Male sense of entitlement never ceases to impress me 🙂

  7. I’ve said it before, and I’ll probably deny myself any chance of tenure someday by saying it again, but the best way to end rape is to arm women.

  8. Well, I can underatand that he feels entitled not to have coffee thrown on him, but given the circumstances he can fucking deal with it.

    How does Greece handle things like this in terms of legal action? Are the women embarrassed and made to feel like it was their fault if they report it, like they often do feel in the U.S.?

    I cna’t imagine Greece is a pro-survivor haven of any sort. I suspect women take shit into their own hands because they know full well nobody else is.

  9. Not to post again, but I wouldn’t advocate a violent response to a flasher. What are we supposed to be so afraid of, the sight of a penis?? Take one step towards me and it’s a different story.

    I think the fear has to do with the willingness of that person to use you for sexual gratification–he obviously doesn’t have much respect for the women he’s flashing.

  10. Just a thought experiment, however useful/useless: What would your reaction be to a man reacting in a violent manner to harassement by a female, a group of females, or an assorted group of individuals? Would he be justified, over-reacting, or something in between if he, I don’t know, hurled rocks in their general direction?

  11. This is one thing I’ve honestly never understood: Some feminists, in my experience, seem to reject the idea of women actively striking back against men who engage in this kind of behavior. Why NOT talk back to the asshole who gropes you on the subway? It’s as if they have absorbed this notion of women as being resigned to passivity and victimhood. And the reason a lot of men in the US do this kind of thing is probably because they feel they can get away with it without fear of humiliation or retaliation. What if more of them received a scalding-hot latte in their face in response?

    (I should note that I can understand why a woman might be hesitant to strike back against a lone man in a secluded place at night. I’m thinking more of very public harassment here, where visibility ensures that the threat of violent conflict is lower.)

  12. If nothing else, why not use those high heels that your job makes you wear? If some creep grabs your arse on the subway, place your heel on his shoe about an inch and a half back from the tip and put all your weight on that heel. They’ll notice that.

  13. Why NOT talk back to the asshole who gropes you on the subway? It’s as if they have absorbed this notion of women as being resigned to passivity and victimhood.

    Uh, no. The idea is that men who do that want female attention above all else, and it doesn’t matter to them whether that attention is frightened, angry, or anything else; they get off on it just the same whatever form it takes. The point of not reacting is to deny them their reward, to deny them any attention at all. That has nothing to do with passivity, and describing women who use that tactic that way is pretty insulting. They didn’t “absorb” it (hello, embracing female passivity!) If they’re promoting that as the best reaction, they made a decision to. With their brains.

    Of course, it may be a wrong decision. I disagree with the decision to use that tactic because I don’t think it’s universally effective – clearly, some men don’t harass for attention, they do it because a woman, a picture of a woman, and the idea of a woman are all the same thing to them: they see themselves as subjective actors and women as objects, as visual entertainment, and finding out that women have their own subjective reactions scares the hell out of them. But for every guy who gropes because he can’t imagine a woman violently objecting, there’s a guy who gropes because he gets a charge out of seeing a woman visibly upset. Since you don’t know which kind of guy you’re dealing with, causing him physical pain is probably going to work out better than just yelling, since he might like that.

  14. I think the fear has to do with the willingness of that person to use you for sexual gratification–he obviously doesn’t have much respect for the women he’s flashing.

    Particularly given that in the Maria Goretti school case, the people he was flashing were Lolita-aged schoolgirls. I’m actually not sure what the optimal advice is to the schoolgirls, in that case, but yes, I’d be scared if I were the schoolgirl. An adult man who is willing to use children for sexual gratification is pretty scary.

    In an adult situation, whether I’d be scared or mad at a flasher probably depends on where I am, and what my avenue for escape looks like if he proves to have worse than flashing on his mind.

  15. Particularly given that in the Maria Goretti school case, the people he was flashing were Lolita-aged schoolgirls. I’m actually not sure what the optimal advice is to the schoolgirls, in that case, but yes, I’d be scared if I were the schoolgirl. An adult man who is willing to use children for sexual gratification is pretty scary.

    And schoolgirls, particularly Catholic ones in uniforms, are highly fetishized.

  16. In most cases, these pervs are actively entertaining a fantasy that you like seeing his pud as much as he likes showing it to you. It takes a little violence to break this spell. I’ve never hit anyone, but have shouted loudly, attracting the attention of everyone around. One guy said “wha, wha…you’re crazy!” And I said, “You were masturbating! Get off on the next stop and run, because I’m coming after you!” Man, did he disappear.

  17. Just a thought experiment, however useful/useless: What would your reaction be to a man reacting in a violent manner to harassement by a female, a group of females, or an assorted group of individuals? Would he be justified, over-reacting, or something in between if he, I don’t know, hurled rocks in their general direction?

    I don’t think that violence is a particularly good response to harassment (hence my writing, “I’m not a big fan of violence, but I do like to see women fighting back”). I don’t think that physical violence is usually a justifiable response to verbal harassment; however, if someone molests you, you certainly have my permission to smack that asshole upside the head, regardless of gender.

  18. Véronique,

    I just wanted to post to give you a “You go gal.” It is just too bad that you got him in the face and not in the offending appendage. I believe that most sexual harassment would disappear if women will not act the victim and confront their harasser.

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