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One Man, One Woman

Eteraz posted this essay on muslim polygamy in America a while ago:

Now, some of you may be thinking: I want to be such a man. If you do, good for you. Frankly speaking, I have no interest in a multiple wivery. My argument is simple. The first woman that a real man marries should be one that’s more than a handful, ya’ni, she should be a real woman. If she’s not, she’s not a challenge, and a real man only wants challenges. Thus, it becomes impossible to take another real woman because any man, no matter how much of a man himself, cannot deal with two *real* women. But, anyway, regardless of why I don’t want a second wife, let me explain how it is that guys who do want second wives, convince everyone they are deserving.

Since I am neither a polygamist nor an apologist for polygamy, none of what he writes here seems terribly controversial (although I might quibble about the redemptive value of redefining manliness to require feminism). After Short Creek (excuse me, Colorado City) and Under the Banner of Heaven, I have no illusions about the power disparities that polygamy traditionally maintains:

The local slang term for marriageable girls is “poofers”. One day they’re living with their parents, attending school, just being teenage girls. The next day, poof, they’re gone. Marriages aren’t publicly announced or celebrated—often they’re scarcely celebrated at all—and the girls are given minimal advance notice. They just disappear into their husbands’ households: poof! Sometimes FLDS girls from the Arizona Strip are swapped for girls from the Bountiful colony, which makes the girls on both sides of the swap even more tractable.

(By the way, this is scarcely distinguishable from the methods used in the modern-day slave trade. The basic recipe starts when you separate the slaves from everyone who might protect or support them. You physically abuse them so they’re frightened and disoriented. You put them in a controlling environment where they’re powerless and deprived of outside information, and make sure that they don’t have proper ID, access to transportation, or money of their own. You repeatedly tell them that this is where they belong. And then you exploit the hell out of them.)

Once these girls have had babies, they’re stuck. They can’t abandon their children, and they have no more place to go than they did before. They can’t sue their “husband” for support; they were never legally married to him. They may not have a Social Security Number. They may not have a birth certificate. They have minimal education. They’ve been told all their lives that outsiders are sinful, dangerous, and malign. And everyone they know in the world keeps telling them that where they are is where they belong. So they still don’t run. And because they don’t run they have more children, often at a rate of one a year, which leaves them depressed and exhausted.

Eteraz is not talking child-brides, but he is talking control and pressure:

But women come to be snared in other ways. After all, not all girls who become second or third wives are divorcees or widows. Some are converts. To me, the phenomenon of convert women acquiescing to polygamy is the most interesting one. In fact, some of the strongest proponents of polygamy I’ve met have been converts to Islam. I found this so fascinating that I tried to get to the root of this phenomenon. Here is the explanation that I have reached: Many converts come from Christianity, and an American cultural milieu, which defines Islam as part of the East, and as different. When these women actually convert to Islam, its because they are sick and tired of the West, and thus, LIKE to believe the fact that Islam is “Eastern.” These women want to be Eastern – their logic works like this: Since the West has always treated me like crap, the opposite of West must be utopia! Persuant to such logic, then, they embrace polygamy because it is the clearest expression of Eastern relationships. Such women only have to be found, they don’t need convincing.

Still, there are some girls who are neither widows, nor divorcees, nor converts. Yet they too end up becoming second or third wives. How? The answer: Pity and a need for self-worth. Some women grow up depressed, have always been mistreated, or are just plain lonely. The only time they feel good about themselves is when they are helping someone else. Now you know women like this. At college, these are those girls that come into where the boys are sitting, take everyone’s order for what they want from McDonalds and then go and buy food for everyone; and they don’t just do this once, they do it all the time.

Doing stuff for others makes them feel needed; and being needed gives them self-affirmation. When a man who wants a second wife come across such women, all the men have to say to them is “Dear Bla Bla, my life with my current wife has been quite miserable. We do not click at the intimacy level. I was forced to marry her to make my mother happy. I really wish I was given the opportunity to be an individual and to pick my own wife! I pick you! But alas, I cannot divorce her because she’s realiant on me. The only option is for you to be my second wife!” Women who have for too long served other people, want, out of pity, and their own need, to help this poor guy out. And quiet often, acquiesce into becoming his second wife. They don’t realize how horribly they have been manipulated. The sad truth is that they have, almost throughout their whole life, been manipulated like this.

What happens to you when you invest in an unequal partnership?

One commenter argues–as I take it–that polygamy is not inherently sexist:

finally, i say that i am in support of polygamy not because i plan to practice it myself – i personally could not imagine myself married to more than one woman – but because it is a part of our religion, i will not simply treat it with a “salad bar mentality” – it’s fine to pick and choose those items which you like but to toss out the cauliflower entirely simply because you don’t care for cauliflower, is excessive. and i happen to like cauliflower!! so where does that leave me? i think that what needs to happen is a dialog on marriage, polygamy included, so that when/if it is practiced, it is done in an appropriate manner. your points about women who raise objections to being in a polygamous relationship are valid. no one should be forced into something that they don’t want to be a part of (if the woman says no, then “no” it is – end of story). like many things today, education is lacking. i whole heartedly agree that too many men in islam suffer from hyper-masculinity. but should this lead us to condemn polygamy, part and parcel? i think it deserves further examination. again, my $0.02.

Polygamy is not inherently sexist any more than piecework is inherently exploitative. The problem is that it doesn’t offer much protection and therefore holds a great deal of negative potential. It’s an arrangement in which one partner has power over the others. That makes them vulnerable to abuse, emotional or otherwise. Polygamy as one arrangement in a polyamorous set of possibilities carries the same susceptability for the same reasons.

Eteraz, on the other hand, would go so far as to hold off on permitting legal recognition of polyamorous relationships until the problem of polygamy is solved, although he briefly alludes to problems he has with other poly arrangements:

Finally: these days there is a little bit of discussion among the extreme left that polyamorous relationships (of both kinds) should be able to be sanctified by marriage. I oppose this. Unless and until male manipulation of women is done away with let’s not propagate such idiocy. As to where a woman takes on multiple husbands as well, I have a problem with that as well, because it means that the men are being manipulated. Let’s keep marriage between two people. My argument is not based on ‘what will happen to the children’ or to ’sexually transmitted diseases.’ Rather, I am against giving legal sanction to multiple marriages because of its political implications. More marriages mean more divorces, and more divorces mean more intrusion by the State. We already have plenty, thank you very much. I also believe that if multiple marriages are allowed, it will be men who will take advantage of it far more than women — due to their historical position and our society’s financial disparity. As a Muslim I have seen exactly what happens when men get to exercise the right. To the left: you do not want to go down that road.

I’m curious about everyone’s opinions about polyamory as opposed to polygamy. Generally speaking, I’m with Angry Brown Butch:

I suppose the whole thing hits a rather personal sore spot for me, since I am polyamorous. And, while I do not think that polyamory is some perfect philosophy, or that it is easy to navigate without fucking up or hurting people, or that it is inherently better than chosen and intentional monogamy, I also think that chosen, intentional polyamory that is pursued in an open, honest, equitable and kind way is far preferable to societally-enforced, by-default monogamy. Everyone always seems to think that polyamorous relationships are destined to blow up in people’s faces, but hey, monogamy doesn’t seem to have that good a success rate, either.


33 thoughts on One Man, One Woman

  1. i think feminists and everyone else will have to confront the autonomy/exploitation problem that underlies polyamorous relationships. autonomy for angry brown butch also means autonomy for angry brown skinned guy from arabian country with three non-english speaking wives without social, religious or legal rights. personally, i rather prevent angry brown skinned guy from arabian country from doing what he wants. even if it is at the expense of angry brown butch. everyone can’t be free.

  2. everyone can’t be free.

    But given the kinds of relationships ABB and many other polyamorists enter into, prohibiting ABB means establishing a different kind of sexism in law.

  3. Eteraz: couldn’t the same logic be applied to monogamous heterosexual marraige, that autonomy for the egalitarian feminist means autonomy for the abusive husband who believes he has “dominion over” his wife?

  4. Devil’s Advocate: why do we need marriage at all? Can’t we just classify it as a religious thing, and the state can butt out? Granted, this would involve a re-vamping of our legal structure, but I think it’d be (theoretically) doable (not practically, though – too much political opposition, too much law to sort through, etc).

  5. My problem is with the assumption that marriage has to be part of this. Take marriage out of the equation of who is legally acknowledged as a partnership or family, and you eliminate much of the potential for exploitation, imo.

  6. I live pretty close to Hilldale / Colorado City. Bizarre place. On the other hand, there is (not so far away) Big Water which was started by Alex Joseph who married several mature women who were mostly very well educated and erudite. As practiced by the “Shortcrikers” it is nothing but serial child molestation. It is evil. Period.

  7. Ok, let’s say we take marriage out: How do you accomplish that? By illegalizing marriage? Now you reverse the problem. Instead of the polyamorous group of people burdened as they are now, the people who WANT to be married will be burdened.

    Since, at the current time the people who want to be married are the majority, they win.

    If removing marriage from this entire issue is the solution, then a cultural critique of marriage — akin to one which brought homosexuality to acceptability and respectability — is in order.

  8. Ok, let’s say we take marriage out: How do you accomplish that? By illegalizing marriage? Now you reverse the problem. Instead of the polyamorous group of people burdened as they are now, the people who WANT to be married will be burdened.

    They wouldn’t necessarily be shut out of civil recognition for purposes of security and ease; it just wouldn’t hold marriage as a special category deserving of special protection.

    If removing marriage from this entire issue is the solution, then a cultural critique of marriage — akin to one which brought homosexuality to acceptability and respectability — is in order.

    I think the far left is doing that.

  9. Jeff,

    Eteraz: couldn’t the same logic be applied to monogamous heterosexual marraige, that autonomy for the egalitarian feminist means autonomy for the abusive husband who believes he has “dominion over” his wife?

    Only if you think marriage is presumptively a relationship of an ‘abusive husband’ set up in contradistinction to an ‘egalitarian feminist.’ That simply isn’t the case. In fact, I’d choke on the M&M’s I’m currently eating if you could show me one marriage where there is a feminist wife and an abusive husband.

    Further, theoretically speaking, marriage is supposed to provide a woman ‘dominion over’ her husband as well. In fact, the dominion is supposed to be mutual — since each one of them have dominion over the others’ private parts.

  10. Piny,

    But given the kinds of relationships ABB and many other polyamorists enter into, prohibiting ABB means establishing a different kind of sexism in law.

    Law creates categorizations. In order for there to be law there have to be things that aren’t allowed.

    One way out of this whole mess is to say that marriage and personal relations and how they are organized do not require state-recognition.

    The trouble then is that it is state-enforcement which gives us custody-neutrality, spousal support, child-support, and the whole host of protections that women didn’t have before the advent of the modern nation-state.

  11. Considering the very idea of the potentially more egalatarian marriage (one which does not conform to strict sex roles) wherein two people may choose to marry regardless of the shape of their genitalia is considered “controversial” in this country, and has been specifically banned by popular vote, I don’t think we’re ready for polygamy.

    Polyamory has been highly problematic for most people I know who have tried it, but I suppose if one can find a workable way to manage it, then more power to them.

    Legal and religious marriage should have been severed a long time ago. One has little or nothing to do with the other. You don’t need to be married in a church to be married legally, and you don’t need to be married legally to undergo a religious marriage. Legal marriage however is ital to our organization to the family, specifially for all of the reasons which same-sex couples want to marry now.

  12. Only if you think marriage is presumptively a relationship of an ‘abusive husband’ set up in contradistinction to an ‘egalitarian feminist.’ That simply isn’t the case. In fact, I’d choke on the M&M’s I’m currently eating if you could show me one marriage where there is a feminist wife and an abusive husband.

    What? No, the argument was that creating monogamous marriage as a legally-recognized relationship permits abusive monogamous marriages just as polyamory permits abusive polygamous marriages. It has nothing to do with the political mores of people in individual pairings.

  13. Piny,

    They wouldn’t necessarily be shut out of civil recognition for purposes of security and ease; it just wouldn’t hold marriage as a special category deserving of special protection.

    See this.

  14. i agree though. i think with the fact that we have a state, having a religious marriage is redundant. the social utility of the religious marriage is unnecessary in light of the advent of the state.

    HOWEVER,

    to shunt aside the religious marriage is a form of french laicisme and flies in the face of the anglo-saxon version of secularism we have, in which religions are allowed free-exercise.

    in turkey or france you could probably institute the kind of state-only marriage people are espousing here. thankfully, not in the states.

    i say thankfully b/c that state institute laicisme pisses me off in other contexts and becomes a bureacratic beat down, often imposing the majoritarian will in other ways, i.e. see hijab ban on women in france.

  15. See this.

    That’s not an answer to the argument that you can have a broader concept of civil unions–which could include monogamous and polygamous partnerships between people who were and were not romantically involved–without having a legal concept of marriage or a special protective category for it. That model probably would “not allow” some things, but not in the way you seem to see as necessary.

  16. to shunt aside the religious marriage is a form of french laicisme and flies in the face of the anglo-saxon version of secularism we have, in which religions are allowed free-exercise.

    By “to shunt aside,” do you mean, prohibit people from privately entering into marriages per the instructions of their faith? I don’t think that’s being put forth as a solution.

  17. I live in Arizona and, while I am by no means an expert, I have read a lot about Colorado City. The polygamy was just one of many, many, many issues that town had. Just the fact that Warren Jeffs, the former leader of Colorado City, is now on the FBIs most wanted list is a good indication of how truly messed up that community was. So perhaps it is not the best example of how regular people would behave if given the option of polyamory. I believe that free, enlightened people should definitely have polyamory as an option. If you look to the Netherlands you will see a very free, very liberal society where polyamory is allowed. The real question is, how enlightened are the majority of Americans? I’m all for more freedom and think that allowing polyamory is a fine idea, but it will never go anywhere in this political climate.

  18. Piny,

    you can have a broader concept of civil unions–which could include monogamous and polygamous partnerships between people who were and were not romantically involved–without having a legal concept of marriage or a special protective category for it.

    I see. So if any two people or any four or five or twelve people want to consensually enter into a civil union with each other, they should be allowed? I don’t have a problem with its arbitrariness. If six people want to enter such a relationship more power to them.

    I have a problem with its practical ramifications. For every three well behaved men entering into such a relationship with three well adjusted women, there will be harems of one man and six abused and/or economically downtrodden women. im sorry: i can’t allow such concubinage. in fact, isn’t the whole ‘left’ critique of traditional marriage that it is a form of legalized concubinage?

  19. i’m a polyamorous person, with two partners. it’s terrifying for me to think that, like with same sex couples in most states, i could face the terrible situation where the partner i can’t marry (i would vastly, vastly prefer if marriage were abolished in favor of civil union, btw) were hurt and hospitalized, but i could be kept from seeing him.

  20. it’s terrifying for me to think that, like with same sex couples in most states, i could face the terrible situation where the partner i can’t marry (i would vastly, vastly prefer if marriage were abolished in favor of civil union, btw) were hurt and hospitalized, but i could be kept from seeing him.

    Although I don’t agree about the _abolition_ of marriage part, I tihnk the rest is right on. I can’t think of one good reason to keep polyamorous…… Not couples. Multiples?

    I can’t think of one good reason to prevent any number of happily polyamorous people from marrying (or civilly uniting with) any number of other happily polyamorous people.

    Contrast the difference between one man married to three women and one man and three women all married to each other. The dynamic of dependence (which I think is a bit of a red herring to begin with) is changed completely when it isn’t one man providing for many women, but many people providing for each other.

  21. In fact, I’d choke on the M&M’s I’m currently eating if you could show me one marriage where there is a feminist wife and an abusive husband.

    Actually, I did know such a marriage, in the sense that the wife considered herself a feminist, associated with feminists in college, married a man who proved to be abusive, and then took several years to reach the breaking point where she was prepared to leave.

    Not that I think civil marriage as a whole should be dumped for that reason, or anything.

    I can’t think of one good reason to prevent any number of happily polyamorous people from marrying (or civilly uniting with) any number of other happily polyamorous people.

    I tend to think the ways in which the resulting overhaul of marital property, divorce, and custody law would change the contracts of all the people who wanted to be married in the usual monogamous way (and possibly change their contracts in ways they couldn’t know about or predict) make one good reason for not opening up marriage to any old number. The difficulty of preserving privileges like the ability to get your spouse to immigrate, in a system without any numeric limit, where people could marry bulk mail order spouses for a fee, make another good reason. Not an exhaustive list of reasons, but just a couple for the sake of example.

  22. I can think of one very good reason not to legally acknowledge polyamorous marriages; it’s bad public policy. For each man who marries four women, three straight men have to go without a life partner. Without a doubt, if polymarriage were allowed, it would be primarily men who take advantage of it, to the detriment of other straight men.

  23. From my post Reframing the Poly Debate:

    Which brings me back to what I think is obscured by the “immorality” argument of polygamy: human rights abuses. Putting aside the problems we have a society recognizing and dealing with abuse (as that is a whole series of posts in of itself), when abuse is recognized in a heterosexual monogamous relationship, the configuration of the relationship is rarely, if ever, seen as the important factor.

    […]

    The suffering of [some women in polygynous marriages] should not be seen as evidence to support the case against polygamy, it should be treated as an important problem by itself. By making polygamy the main “evil” here, the focus is not on the actual harm being done but on the supposed immorality of non-monogamy. Furthermore, by using the abuse of women in a case against polygamy, it creates an idea that these kinds of things are unique to polygamy, instead of them being a greater narrative of traditional relationships of all kinds.

  24. Erika: You’re conflating polygyny with polyamory. Wikipedia and your online dictionary of choice are invaluable tools in a debate like this — it’s very frustrating trying to have a discussion with someone who doesn’t even know what the basic terminology means.

    Also, on the legality issues of poly, I’d recommend this Alas article: Should we legally recognize polyamorous marriages?.

  25. I’ve little to say on this subject. Shortly after leaving a cult, my husband and I re-evaluated everything we believed. Before we confronted the fact that the Scriptures themselves were corrupt, we spent a length of time living by the literal reading of the laws (in so far as we could with the laws of the state). Once the door to polygamy opened because it was permissable under the literal reading, it became a relational manifest destiny and I grew fatalistic. In my efforts to cope, I became it’s biggest supporter. Inevitably, a volunteer other woman came along. He tried. So far as I can tell, he did everything right. But I couldn’t tell you which was worse, my time in the cult or the period with the other woman. No, it wasn’t about sex, he was trying to do everything right so it never got that far, not even so far as a formal date or commitment before I was next door to a nervous breakdown.

    Opening that legal door is not the same as offering the same options to ethical polyamorous people and angry, abusive polygamists, it’s holding the Damocles’ sword of the poly option over every monogamous partners’ head. Even if the law required the consent of all prior partners (only one way in which such legalization would become an awful logistical nightmare), every individual reluctant partner will have one moment when they’re too worn down to resist any longer. We can’t simply dismiss the problem by saying that poly individuals shouldn’t be married to vanilla individuals either, or that you should simply divorce someone who nags you to disregard prior agreements, we both know that this will create many suddenly “poly” folks during their mid-life crises. Responsible folks have periods of temporary insanity, too. And, as we learned, you can change from monogamous to poly under the right circumstances, it’s hell trying to change back.

    Perhaps if marriage were by contract, the only way I could see this being feasible from a legal perspective in any regard, the matter could be straightened out to everyone’s satisfaction? My husband and I, who have survived so much crap at this point I doubt anything will split us, could have our virulently monogamous egalitarian marriage, you could have your poly marriage, and crazy fundie marriages would be automatically invalid since abusive brainwashing constitutes duress.

  26. The polyamory Wikipedia entry includes polygamy as one form of polyamory. My point is that if marriage protections were extended to polyamory, polygamy, or polyandry, that it would be bad government policy. Creating an underclass of straight men who can’t find a girlfriend or wife is hardly a good thing.

  27. Erika, I do not believe that the legal recognition of polyamorous relationships necessarily produces an underclass of single straight men. Sole recognition of polygyny could. Similarly, sole recognition of polyandry could lead to a large number of single women. Allowing both, as well as other relationship patterns, prevents the necessary formation of a gender underclass.

  28. Creating an underclass of straight men who can’t find a girlfriend or wife is hardly a good thing.

    While this might be unfortunate for those single straight men I can think of no good reason it should affect who women want to spend their time with and or choices in how to they commit to those relationships.

  29. Erika: Seriously, you’re still not understanding the basic terms. This is what going to a dictionary looks like:

    po·lyg·a·my Pronunciation (p-lg-m)
    n.
    1. The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time. Also called plural marriage.
    2. Zoology A mating pattern in which a single individual mates with more than one individual of the opposite sex.

    po·lyg·y·ny Pronunciation (p-lj-n)
    n.
    1. The condition or practice of having more than one wife at one time.
    2. Zoology A mating pattern in which a male mates with more than one female in a single breeding season.

    pol·y·an·dry Pronunciation (pl-ndr)
    n.
    1. The condition or practice of having more than one husband at one time.
    2. Zoology A mating pattern in which a female mates with more than one male in a single breeding season.
    3. Botany The condition of being polyandrous.

    Our culture may conflate polygamy with polygny, but when you’re having an intelligent debate on the subject of multiple partners you may not do so. At least, you may not do so while participating in anything that resembles a discussion because that is the height of disrespect for those of us who have actually spent time and effort thinking about this subject.

    If you’re unwilling to even take the minimal amount of time to research the differences between the four terms, why do you think that you’ll be able to understand even the basics of this debate? Speaking of basics, it would do you well to remember that, while polyamory includes configurations that would fit the above terms, it is not the same as the traditional applications of said terms. Polygamy (polygny and polyandry) as we think of it is focused on tradition, property rights, and often will treat the partners involved (especially the women) as chattel. Polyamory is about love between multiple partners. You can’t have poly without consent (that’s cheating) and you can’t have poly without love (that’s swinging).

    And, seriously? Your argument of “but won’t anyone think of the poor straight guys who can’t get a date?” smacks of the Nice Guy Syndrome. Get this: no man is entitled to my time, my love, or my notice — not if I’m single, not if I’m in a monogamous relationship, and not if I’m in a poly configuration. If legalizing multiple marriages did, indeed, create a band of dateless straight guys, then the message there would be that those guys were so undesireable that they couldn’t attract any of the straight/bi/pan girls, who were happily getting their love fix with guys (possibly even more than one guy at a time!) who were able to treat them right. In that society, the guys could either learn how to treat women properly or remain single for the rest of their lives.

    Not that I think that would happen, but rather if it did that it would be a good catalyst for change. And certainly not the “doomsday prediction” that you’re making it out to be. Honestly, the world would not end if losers couldn’t get dates because they were losers. Really.

  30. allowing legal recognition of polyamorous relationships isn’t really going to change much. most people prefer the monogamous model. being legally bound to several people is not the same as dating and fucking several people.

  31. In fact, the dominion is supposed to be mutual — since each one of them have dominion over the others’ private parts.

    Eteraz, it’s been quite some time since marital rape has been allowed on the grounds that one’s spouse has ownership over one’s body. And let’s not kid ourselves, the idea has never extended to women owning men’s bodies, just men owning women’s.

  32. allowing legal recognition of polyamorous relationships isn’t really going to change much. most people prefer the monogamous model.

    I tend to agree. Looking at Pakistan, although polygyny is legal it’s not practiced by the majority of the population.

    Incidentally for a very amusing example of Confusing Causation with Correlation, you might wish to look at this article, which posits that polygamy leads to terrorism. http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.18649/article_detail.asp

  33. tekanji-

    You have convinced me. The teenage boys, who were forced out of polgynous communities in Utah and Arizona, must have been losers. Obviously no one could possibly want them.

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