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Not a pretty girl.

I’m going to tell you a story that my parents told me and my sister. I’m not telling it to brag. I don’t know whether or not it’s true. I hope it’s not true. I’m telling this story so that you can understand some of what I grew up with.

Supposedly, when all three of us were tiny, right after or possibly right before my brother was born, my parents were eating with the two or three of us at a patio restaurant. Some well-meaning older couple came up to my parents and said something insane about their children, as total strangers will. They told my parents that we were beautiful–so beautiful, in fact, that they hoped there was some way (other than us?) that they could preserve their genetic material so that our incredible cherubic gorgeousness wouldn’t be lost to posterity.

No, really. To their credit, my parents always told it as this nutty thing these weird people said to them, but you could tell they were a little pleased that their children had been chosen to represent the cream of the human genome in the event of a nuclear apocalypse. They recounted this compliment just like all the other compliments. And so these people, who may or may not have actually existed, took the skinny little blond girl and created a monster: I grew up believing that I was/could be/should be beautiful.

The truly shameful thing is, I don’t think this experience is too far removed in its priorities, if not in its verdict, from what most young women experience growing up.

The last time I wrote about eating disorders, I was praised for not making Naomi Wolf’s occasionally clumsy connections between anorexics and, well, all women. I hope I’m not about to commit that sin here. I’m going to talk about eating-disordered mindsets in a way that seems to confuse people who have not had eating disorders themselves. If any of this is opaque, please let me know in comments, and I’ll be happy to confuse you some more.

Eating disorders are permanent deferred gratification: the eating-disorder sufferer chooses an irrational, unfeasible goal. As the disease escalates, the goal moves like the horizon. No sufferer has ever reached a point of satisfaction with their body, no matter how much they manage to alter it. Satisfaction is never possible. So an eating disorder is defined by this continual struggle to reach an unattainable condition.

An eating disorder is also characterized by obsessive maintanence. An eating-disorder sufferer believes that the condition they are in is extremely precarious. Generally, particularly as their body becomes more and more strained, they’re right; a starving or exhausted body will fight starvation as hard as it possibly can, and use whatever nourishment you give it as efficiently as it can. A sufferer is terrified of backsliding.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? This is precisely how women are taught to relate to their bodies. They are told that they must both struggle towards something inherently unattainable and preserve something inherently perishable. It doesn’t matter who or what they actually are, let alone what they want. They are their “beauty,” and “beauty” is defined as narrowly and starkly as it was that afternoon. To the extent that they are not “beautiful,” they are worthless.

I grew up believing that I had to be a pretty girl and that I had to stay a pretty girl. I feared those two interfering strangers, and all the ones that came after them, more than God.

One common anti-trans feminist argument against transition is that people think they have to do it because they need to be more normal, more acceptable. On an intellectual level, I can accept that this is true of some people. It has nothing to do with how I thought of all my potential bodies. So far as I was concerned, transition meant ceasing to be a beautiful girl: giving up everything that made me valuable and acceptable. It was suicide, the biggest mistake possible. I swear, as this stubbly, bulky may-un with the hairy belly and the deepening voice contemplated surgery, a little voice inside me was saying, But what if you’re not a pretty pretty princess anymore?

Transsexual bodies are coded as grotesque, hideous, mutilated. Ugly. Transmale bodies in particular are coded as coarse, fat, inadequate, pathetic. Desire for a transsexual is a nasty fetish. Sleeping with a transsexual is an act of charity. A transsexual him- or herself is a dirty joke incarnate. Opting into that condition meant tearing out all of the fear that trapped me for the years that preceded coming out. You’ll be a freak and no one will love you. No more seniors wanting cheek swabs.


23 thoughts on Not a pretty girl.

  1. This brought up a wave of thought for me. I’m going to try to address some of my thoughts here, as muddled as they are.

    One of the things that always bothers me about ED discussions is that those who have suffered from EDs tend to have this idea, unexpressed or not, that they have suffered for the want of physical perfection MORE than those who never had an ED, that they put more stock in being “beautiful” than others women, and that women who never had an ED must have had somehow less of a “disordered” relationship with beauty and physical perfection.

    I think this tends to come from the idea that restricting your diet is a logical conclusion when faced with the question of, “What can I do to make myself more beautiful?” Not everyone comes to this conclusion, but that doesn’t make the question any less real for them. A lot of women and young girls conclude that their path to beauty lies in makeup, or having “perfect” hair, or having the right clothes.

    My own mother used to laugh at fat girls who spent tons of money on designer clothes. She would say, “Does she think THAT will make her beautiful? Who cares if she’s wearing Chanel when she has a stomach like THAT!” Because for my mom, the rode to beauty was all about weight.

    The thing about feminist trans criticism is that, under such logic, you would STILL be choosing to transition in order to become more “normal.” Why? Because you could either be “the pretty, pretty princess” or a man. Could you choose to be an unattractive woman? Could you choose, for that matter, to be an unattractive man?

    Most people are not beautiful, yet most people are told, at some point or another, that we’re beautiful. Are other people lying? Is beauty “really” in the eye of the beholder? Or are we talking about two different kinds of beauty — objective beauty and personal/emotionally-laden beauty? I think most of us who are called beautiful are being labelled so in an “personal” way, by someone close. Objective beauty is a lot rarer to get honored for somehow having, and that’s why when strangers tell us we’re beautiful, it’s much more flattering. But even so, it’s hard to keep in mind that unless we have strangers telling us how beautiful we are every day, we would probably not be judged “objectively beautiful” in some horrific beauty study.

    I’m saying all this not to say that personal affirmations don’t matter — I think they matter more, actually — or that we should all think we’re ugly. I just think in order to get off the beauty myth, in order to totally heal as women, we need to do two totally radical things: 1) we need to realize that we aren’t beautiful to many, and 2) we need to be okay with that. We need to get off the perfection train, and not by reforming imperfection as the “new” beauty, but completely revolutionizing our desires to be beautiful.

  2. One of the things that always bothers me about ED discussions is that those who have suffered from EDs tend to have this idea, unexpressed or not, that they have suffered for the want of physical perfection MORE than those who never had an ED, that they put more stock in being “beautiful” than others women, and that women who never had an ED must have had somehow less of a “disordered” relationship with beauty and physical perfection.

    I hope you don’t think I’m arguing that.

    The thing about feminist trans criticism is that, under such logic, you would STILL be choosing to transition in order to become more “normal.” Why? Because you could either be “the pretty, pretty princess” or a man. Could you choose to be an unattractive woman? Could you choose, for that matter, to be an unattractive man?

    And my point, or one of them, is that transmen are seen as exceedingly unattractive men, not-men, properly speaking. By most people’s standards, including the ones I internalized, I am choosing to cease to be an attractive woman, and to become someone who is seen as unattractive no matter what gender is attributed to me. You want some examples of that, cruise some anti-trans feminist message boards. It won’t take you too long to find references to “titless wonders” and worse.

  3. My own mother used to laugh at fat girls who spent tons of money on designer clothes. She would say, “Does she think THAT will make her beautiful? Who cares if she’s wearing Chanel when she has a stomach like THAT!” Because for my mom, the rode to beauty was all about weight.

    And that’s the kind of attitude that led to my hearing all my life, “You have such a pretty face,” or “You have beautiful eyes,” or “beautiful skin” or “lovely hair,” as if the viewer were forced to acknowledge that I wasn’t, in fact, Quasimodo, but couldn’t just come out and say “You’re pretty,” because such unqualified acceptance was open only for girls who weren’t fat like me.

    I think I was 17 before someone actually said that to me, and it startled the hell out of me. It was the mother of a girl I was babysitting, who just blurted out as if she were surprised she were saying it, “You know, you’re a very pretty girl!”

    And you know? Here it is, 20 years later, and the memory of it still can bring up tears of rage and shame and anger and longing for acceptance. It wasn’t until I was in my 20s that I heard it from a man, and that was only after I’d lost a good bit of weight.

  4. Very interesting perspective, and thank you for sharing it. Maybe this isn’t the place for what I’m about to try to say, but your post got me thinking, so I’ll let it fly.

    One thing that always kinda gets me when people start talking about EDs is that anorexia and bulimia are the default. That ED=restriction. I am actively in recovery from a 10 year battle with binge eating disorder (the bingeing of bulimia, but no purging), and naturally, the effects of it were the exact opposite that anorexia and bulimia try to accomplish. I got fat. Obese. Whatever you call it.

    Investigating why I chose BED instead of anorexia or bulimia is something I’ve been trying to do lately, and it’s a weird journey for a multitude of reasons.

    1) There are piles of anorexia and bulimia memoirs, but so far I’ve found that very few people want to write about their experiences on the other side of the eating disorder spectrum. I have found a few passages in books like “Full Lives” that talk about compulsive overeating, and there are a few self-help books, but nothing has really spoken to me and made it click, “oh THAT’S what pushed me in that direction!” I remember writing in my diary at age 10 about a diet I was going on, so I could just as easily have gone the other way. Why didn’t I?

    2) Eating disorders in relation to feminism are a tricky thing anyway, but relating my getting fat to feminism is something I haven’t really been able to connect. When I was bingeing at age 15, I wasn’t looking at it as a political move at all, but now I wonder if for the past few years, subconsciously I saw getting fat as a way of shunning the sexbot standard. By placing myself squarely outside the “acceptable” image of what a woman should look like.

    3) I know a lot of it was about avoidance, avoiding feelings, avoiding getting hit on/sexualized/whatever. Now as I’m losing the weight and becoming healthier, I have to face the whole new question of what if?

    What if I become “acceptable” in contrast with what the public says I’ve been for the last 10 years (fat, invisible, failure, etc). Will I go right back into avoidance? Have I dealt with those issues enough to not fall back into BED or worse, swing toward another ED? I think that some people have a normal relationship with food or bodies or looks or image, and some don’t ever have that. I just wish I could pinpoint that center of gravity and get there. It’s precarious. But you know that already.

    Thanks again for sharing this post.

  5. Thank you for your comment. I’ve been wanting to write about BED (-spectrum disorders, you could probably say) for a while, since several people have brought them up in comments, but mine was different and I don’t want to offend. I do see what you’re saying about acceptability–I think that our cultural unwillingness to see “obesity” as anything but a lack of self-control is why we can’t see it as part of an obsessive disorder. And it would force us to evaluate the eating habits of BED people as unhealthy because they’re a self-perpetuating expression of misery, not because they make people bigger. IOW, we would have to see some fat people as healthy and balanced.

  6. I think that our cultural unwillingness to see “obesity” as anything but a lack of self-control is why we can’t see it as part of an obsessive disorder.

    Thank you for putting it into those terms. That is a very clear way of expressing something I’ve been trying to put into words but couldn’t.

  7. I have struggled with body issues all of my life (hell, I guess just about everyone has). I considered myself to be fat from as early on as I can remember. I remember two cousins of mine (boys) who used to get on top of me and perform what they so lovingly termed “chubby torture,” which consisted of them holding me down and pinching me all over my body. Sometimes my older sister would join in. They’d laugh at baby photos of me with little rolls of baby fat on my arms, saying it looked like I had rubber bands wrapped around my arms.

    But you know what? I’m 29 now, and a few years ago I was looking at some family photos, and one in particular stood out. It was a photo of my entire family (mom, dad, sister, brother, and me) at the beach in Georgia on vacation. I was nine years old. I specifically remember that I felt fat at that age, and in fact, my two torturous cousins were on that vacation with us. But when I saw myself in the photo wearing these little pink shorts, I was honestly shocked to see that I was not a fat girl at all at that age. I wasn’t even close to being a fat girl. I don’t think I’d even call the girl in that photo chubby.

    But I did become fat somewhere along the way. It’s hard for me to say exactly when, because I always thought of myself as fat. I’d say it was in high school. I really chunked up during law school, but later dropped about 40 pounds. I’m still overweight, and though I’ve learned to love my body even at this weight, I still struggle with food issues. I wish I never thought about it. Why can’t I just eat without all those nagging thoughts in my head?

    Looking at that photo makes me absolutely furious. I want to go back to that little girl and shake her and say “You are not fat!” Don’t misinterpret that to mean that I think it’s wrong or bad to be fat (I consider myself to be fat now, and I don’t mean that pejoratively, it’s just a fact). I just can’t believe the misperception I had about my body at that age. I don’t know if it was just because of my cousins or what. I’m sure there was more to it than just that. Thankfully, my distorted body image never lead to any kind of eating disorder. But it gave me very low self-esteem that I still struggle with.

    I can’t really express how angry it makes me and how fucked up I think it is that a nine-year-old girl can have such a distorted body image. I also think it’s very strange how I ended up becoming physically what I thought I already was.

  8. raging red, I know what you mean. I said in my previous comment that the diet thing was at age 10 but now I remember that it was second grade, which was age six (I skipped first grade). I was in a private school (for the very affluent, my mom taught classes there in exchange for my tuition) in second grade, and I wanted to look like Lee Andersen, especially after she pointed out the difference in the way our legs looked. I was six. I was in no way fat. I looked like every other six year old. I was perfectly fine. So why did I feel the need to go on a diet at age six and write about it in my diary?

    I wish I could go back and tell that little kid that she wasn’t fat, and that Lee Andersen was a vapid bitch, even at age six, and just to go play soccer like she wanted to, without worrying about how her legs looked.

    I also wish I could go talk to my 13 year old self and tell her to never start the binges. There are far better ways to punish oneself. Ugh.

  9. I remember thinking in third grade that my thighs were way too big. Looking back at pictures of myself, I look like a stick. The only pictures where I even look a little well fed were from 7th grade when I stoppped growing but did not stop eating. But I remember being on diets all the time. I too am sad about those old pictures because I was so self conscious for nothing. I wish I could go back and change that.

  10. I just think in order to get off the beauty myth, in order to totally heal as women, we need to do two totally radical things: 1) we need to realize that we aren’t beautiful to many, and 2) we need to be okay with that. We need to get off the perfection train, and not by reforming imperfection as the “new” beauty, but completely revolutionizing our desires to be beautiful.

    Edith, right on. As I approach my 40s, I’ve become increasingly aware that I have to develop a totally different relationship to my looks than I’ve had in the past. Cultivating a lack of regard about how others perceive my physical self has freed up a lot of mental space.

  11. I’m suffering from bulimia/binge eating, which I somehow ‘contracted’ just less than a year after moving to the US (that was over 7 yrs ago). Like many of you, I always thought I was fat, though I look now at my pictures 10 years ago and I wish I still looked like that.

    Having been raised in a pretty conservative way, I still think my eating disorder is a moral failure, a weakness, a horrible manifestation of my stained character. I keep reading literature that convinces me otherwise, but I can’t shake that very deeply held belief.

    I remember always being “big” (5’9 by the age of 14, 5’10 currently, big boned, bigger than all the kids in the class, even in high school). When I was 11, we moved from a small city to the THE big city back in my country. We didn’t know anybody. My parents summoned a meeting in the living room–they did that often, when they had important issues to communicate (I dreaded those meetings!). They told me that some girls succeed in life because they’re pretty. There’s just no way around it: they will get ahead and have more opportunities simply because of that. I, on the other hand, did not have that advantage. I had to circumvent that unfortunate deficiency and had to use my brains. The whole lecture was meant to stimulate me to do well in school. I did. I also got incredibly insecure, though some periods of time were better than others.

    When I finally reminded my parents of that discussion, many many years later, they acted confused. They didn’t remember, and even denied ever having said such things. However, they did–or they said something that had that effect on me, or I wouldn’t have lived in the shadow of those words. Oh, and then there were the countless, “you could be so pretty if you just lost 10/20 lbs!” comments, which made me shut down even further. In my culture, women were notably smaller on all counts than me; what in the US would be considered normal, would have been “large” there. According to those standards, I was always “large.”

    Whenever people told me I was beautiful, and there have been many (friends, lovers, or strangers), I never believed them. To a certain extent I still don’t.

    I attribute part of my disease to cultural shock–I think it was simply a manifestation of my depression. I also was pretty innocent before moving here: I had no idea that one can make herself purge. I learned to do it and I got pretty good at it. I was also terribly unhappy. Of course, there’s so much more to say about this, but you can all figure it out or fill in the blanks, since the causes of bulimia are pretty consistent.

    And I agree that one doesn’t have to have an ED to have a pretty distorted body image. My body image has always been distorted, ever since I can remember. I guess that provided fertile ground for my current ED. Even when I was healthy and really slim (a brief 3 years of my college life) I still yearned to lose yet more weight so I could finally look ‘normal.’

    Learning that some of you got over your ED gives me hope.

  12. My girlfriend has stories about being torn down for her weight by her mother; including many variations of “your face is cute, if only you’d loose weight…” Fortunately, I think she gave up on the ideal, but even without the additional problems of an ED, she still has endless diet information pushed at her.

    Your comment about the validation of strangers is strong. I’ve heard, since I was very young, that I was handsome. From my grandparents, primarily. Since no one else mentioned it, I “knew” they were lying to be kind. We are each adjusting to the strange concept that someone else finds us attractive, two years in…

  13. Thanks for writing about ED and your experiences. The complexities of ED strike strangely. I was anorexia for 13 years as well as a harmer – and part of that was an incredible desire to destroy my face. It is the one part of my body I never cut but during cutting and during the anorexia with all of it’s particular side effects I felt that if I could only break that holiest of all taboos and actually destroy my face, then all that pressure would be gone (that was a fantasy). My mother and grandmother both have had lifelong ED – my grandmother’s so controlling that my grandfather, in his 80’s, was repeatedly hospitalized due to malnourishment. I think the most shameful thing I did to my mother was tell her that I had an eating disorder – that how I didn’t eat was a type of sickness. She still runs out of the room if the subject comes up.

    Interestingly, when the subject comes up, almost one of the first questions people ask is: what was the lowest you wieghed. Yes, very affirming.

  14. Oh arrgh.

    I just think in order to get off the beauty myth, in order to totally heal as women, we need to do two totally radical things: 1) we need to realize that we aren’t beautiful to many, and 2) we need to be okay with that. We need to get off the perfection train, and not by reforming imperfection as the “new” beauty, but completely revolutionizing our desires to be beautiful.

    As an artist who draws lots of goddesses, this is what I have learned:

    We are ALL beautiful.

    -and-

    Beauty lies only in imperfection.

    We need to redefine beauty to our own standards, rather than accept that “we aren’t beautiful to many”, because in accepting that, we accept as true the fucked-up standards of “beauty” in this patriarchal culture. What we need to do is to reject the stupid dictates of the culture’s definition of beauty, which is designed to serve its own interests, and to reclaim beauty as our own. It is our birthright as humans.

  15. I’ve worked in university hospital settings for the past 20 years. I’m pretty gregarious, so I talk to anyone who looks open to that (and sometimes even those that don’t).

    This post, for some reason, made me remember the little girl some years ago with some kind of bone disorder who was around 6 but looked 2; mom was holding her while we were all in an elevator on the way and I talked to the little girl while we rode (she was too shy to talk back but wouldn’t stop looking). Her poor little body was warped warped and her head was misshapen and scarred from surgeries, but she had the brightest eyes and a deep, full giggle, and I told her how pretty she was (and to me, she was beautiful; it wasn’t just something to say).

    As we got off the elevator, the little girl looked away down the hall and mom (who had listened but not added anything) looked at me and mouthed “thank you”. And smiled.

    We ARE all beautiful.

  16. Apparently when I was a baby, people used to tell my mother that I looked like a doll. And that I should be modeling.

    She always told me I had a pretty face. My dad just told me I needed to eat less and exercise more. As a teenager, mostly, when the secret eating had left me short and round. I’ve gained at least forty-five pounds since then in spurts, some from binging, some from periods where I let go of everything and decide to not diet and not binge but just try to eat like a normal person.

    It’s really hard, trying to deal with the aftermath of BED (a handy term I will now use) as well as being on a college campus where eighty percent of the girls are thin and most of them are anorexic or bulimic. But every so often I catch myself in the mirror, see my hair going all curly and my eyes all green, and I think I look good. Beautiful, even. And that keeps me going.

    Well, that and the Lexapro. Heh.

  17. We need to redefine beauty to our own standards, rather than accept that “we aren’t beautiful to many”

    Need to. We couldn’t possibly not care about being “beautiful”. There couldn’t possibly be anything worse than not having “beauty.” We need to “redefine beauty”, because personal physical beauty is so central to a woman’s life that we can’t live without it.

    because in accepting that, we accept as true the fucked-up standards of “beauty” in this patriarchal culture.

    Because the way to fight those fucked-up standards is to believe that personal physical beauty is what makes life worth living? Come on.

    Thalia, I am not beautiful. The more women who are unafraid to say the same — and really mean it, not just be fishing for compliments — the better. Still better not to have to say it at all, of course, and I never do outside of discussions like this. There have been people in my life who insist that all women are beautiful, because the idea of women having a function other than decoration is unthinkable to them. Because they value women’s physical appearance so very much, when a woman says “I’m not beautiful,” what they hear is, “I’m not lovable” or “I don’t love myself”. They cannot handle the thought of an unbeautiful woman, so they don’t believe the woman herself can handle it. Do you see how enormous an insult this is?

    My boyfriends and my mother tell me I’m beautiful, and they mean it. That doesn’t mean I “really” am. It means they love me. And that’s fine. And it’s a fuck of a lot more important, and it’s a lot nicer for me to be loved than to be beautiful.

    I am not beautiful. It doesn’t matter. I don’t have to be, no matter how many people tell me I must be, by definition. “Goddess” and “beautiful woman” are boring, generic descriptors of a job I did not apply for, and work I refuse to perform. No, thank you. Humans don’t have to all be beautiful – that’s why the world has roses and sunsets and the Sistine Chapel in it. It is the function of those things to be beautiful. It is not mine. I have better things to do.

  18. I am not beautiful. It doesn’t matter. I don’t have to be, no matter how many people tell me … I have better things to do.

    that, as a statement, absolutely rocks.

    sorry, just had to cheer you on.

    I think the thing that these people who love us, and call us beautiful, see – is not beauty, but some spark of who we actually are, and beauty is the only word they have.

  19. I’m also not beautiful, and it doesn’t matter. I like the fact I don’t have to listen to remarks on my appearance from strangers that I have to take as compliments.

    Being told I’m beautiful by a loved one actually means something, I’ve noticed people grow more attractive (or uglier) based on my relationship with them. How much I like them, basically. I can’t imagine deriving much warmth from a stranger telling me I’m attractive. I’m not interested, they do not know me – they’d may as well compliment the brand of cigs of smoking, it would be as meaningful.

  20. Need to. We couldn’t possibly not care about being “beautiful”. There couldn’t possibly be anything worse than not having “beauty.” We need to “redefine beauty”, because personal physical beauty is so central to a woman’s life that we can’t live without it.

    Look, I see what you’re saying here, and I do appreciate it. However, given the tone of the comment and its arguments about “trans” and ED, I think that Edith and Thalia are arguing the same thing, albeit from a different angle of phrasing. “Redefine beauty” in this instance, doesn’t mean, “Up muffin tops, flat chests, and prominent moles!* Fuck the conventionally attractive!” I think it means something more like what all of you’ve all have been saying: Our idea of beauty should include every body as beautiful and valuable. You all seem dedicated to throwing out a standard of beauty that prefers any given body to any other. It’s arguably contradictory, as you said, to cling to “beauty” at all, given that we seem to need “ugliness” to go along with it; nevertheless, I think that the argument here is that we attempt to destroy the latter idea.

    *My sister has a whole bunch of “beauty marks.” I think they’re lovely, and I actually spent a lot of my childhood being jealous of them; sort of a starless Sneetch thing. She went to a dermatologist about unrelated eczema, and asked whether her spots were something she should worry about or keep track of, since they increased every summer of her adolescence. And the dermatologist said, “Oh, no, there are plenty of men who like them!”

  21. “Redefine beauty” in this instance, doesn’t mean, “Up muffin tops, flat chests, and prominent moles!* Fuck the conventionally attractive!”

    Oh, I didn’t think that at all. I thought Kat was right in her rephrasing above.

    I think it means something more like what all of you’ve all have been saying: Our idea of beauty should include every body as beautiful and valuable.

    Yeah, and that’s the constricting, stuff-us-in-boxes thing. Why does beauty have to include my body? I don’t want anything to do with it.

    I’m not talking about establishing an “objective” beauty standard, or telling people whether they should or should not consider themselves beautiful. This is not, not not not, some kind of “If everybody is beautiful, nobody is!” protest designed to keep the average and the ugly in their place. I sincerely hope I did not give that impression.

    What I mean – and I apologize if this is too far from the original point of the thread – is that saying every body is beautiful whether they want to be or not is like saying everybody’s happy, or gentle. We’re not! And it’s creepy and constricting to insist that we are, over our objections, or that we must believe we are. You can do good and be good without being happy, or gentle – or beautiful. Those are not the only virtues – indeed, having them excludes having some others – and being physically unremarkable or even ugly isn’t a vice or a fault.

  22. Need to. We couldn’t possibly not care about being “beautiful”. There couldn’t possibly be anything worse than not having “beauty.” We need to “redefine beauty”, because personal physical beauty is so central to a woman’s life that we can’t live without it.

    Well, no, that’s not what I said. I said “humans”—not specifically “women”—are all beautiful. By my definition, at least—but then I don’t think I’ve ever seen an ugly cat, either. And I’m coming at this from the perspective of an artist, so, granted, maybe I see beauty in more things than most people.

    What I mean – and I apologize if this is too far from the original point of the thread – is that saying every body is beautiful whether they want to be or not is like saying everybody’s happy, or gentle. We’re not! And it’s creepy and constricting to insist that we are, over our objections, or that we must believe we are. You can do good and be good without being happy, or gentle – or beautiful. Those are not the only virtues – indeed, having them excludes having some others – and being physically unremarkable or even ugly isn’t a vice or a fault.

    Well, see, I’d argue that if you “do good and [are] good” then you are beautiful. The physical aspect of it is not the important part; it’s the soul or personality that makes the body shine. If you’ve got no use for beauty and so wish to reject the whole idea of it outright, fine, you do what you like.

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