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More on the Immigration Protests

zuzu

Crooks and Liars has an email from a teacher at Hollywood High School:

“We have been sitting in class for the last hour and a half in full lockdown. I was able to go to the restroom and heard the thousands of marching teens from LA High converging on Hollywood and Highland. The din was unbelievable! The walkouts are spreading throughout all of Los Angeles, including the valley. We are fine here, but this is expected to go on for several more days. It is all unorganized, impromptu and is getting a life of it’s own. Absolutely amazing!

And CNN reports:

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) — Tens of thousands of students walked out of school in California and other states Monday, waving flags and chanting slogans in a second week of protests against legislation to crack down on illegal immigrants.

In Washington, 100 demonstrators wore handcuffs at the Capitol to protest a bill that would make it a felony to be in this country illegally and would make it crime to dispense aid to the nation’s 11 million illegal immigrants.

Immigrant supporters also object to legislation that would also impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and would build fences along part of the U.S.-Mexican border.

The Senate didn’t go along with the Sensenbrenner-introduced House version of the bill; instead, the Senate Judiciary Committee is looking to grant amnesty to current illegals as well as create a guest-worker program:

WASHINGTON, March 27 — With Republicans deeply divided, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on Monday to legalize the nation’s 11 million illegal immigrants and ultimately to grant them citizenship, provided that they hold jobs, pass criminal background checks, learn English and pay fines and back taxes.

The panel also voted to create a vast temporary worker program that would allow roughly 400,000 foreigners to come to the United States to work each year and would put them on a path to citizenship as well.

The legislation, which the committee sent to the full Senate on a 12-to-6 vote, represents the most sweeping effort by Congress in decades to grant legal status to illegal immigrants. If passed, it would create the largest guest worker program since the bracero program brought 4.6 million Mexican agricultural workers into the country between 1942 and 1960.

Have the protests and their sheer size (remember, Saturday’s LA rally alone had 500,000 people, and tens of thousands spontaneously walked out today) scared the Republicans? It could be. After all, the economy depends on the work of illegal aliens to a degree that many people don’t think about unless something like this calls it to their attention. From Tbogg:

The assertion that they are “unwanted guests” is, how should I put it, oh yeah, crap. People may not like the idea of illegal immigrants, but only as long as the illegal immigrants they’re talking about are the ones who aren’t cooking their food and cleaning their houses and cutting their lawns and answering their phones and working in their warehouses and pouring their cement and loading their trucks and, well, you get the idea.

If this weekend’s organizers could get 500,000 people to turn out on Saturday for their march, imagine a one-day work stoppage. If all of my Hispanic employees and the Hispanics who make deliveries to us or provide other services didn’t come into work for a day, I’d be screwed. Now imagine if they all stayed home and didn’t buy anything for a day. They could bring California to its knees and you’d have business owners and factory owners and large contractors and the entire service industry screaming bloody murder. I still have fond memories of the stories of then Senator Pete Wilson getting a pissed-off phone call from a certain well-connected San Diego hotelier when one of her hotels was raided by la migra.

Republicans: meet your new boss.

You better play nice.

28 thoughts on More on the Immigration Protests

  1. …the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on Monday to legalize the nation’s 11 million illegal immigrants and ultimately to grant them citizenship, provided that they hold jobs, pass criminal background checks, learn English and pay fines and back taxes.

    OK, most of the requirements make sense at least on their faces, but learn English? Yes, practically that’s a good idea for obvious reasons, but English is not the official language, so why is it a requirement for citizenship?

  2. Not to mention, you know, the difficulties of learning English when you’re trying to escape poverty, oppression or violence and you don’t exactly have the privilege of signing up for language courses at the local community college.

  3. We have, by the way, tons of undocumented students here at Pasadena City College in our ESL classes. I know I’ve got at least three this semester (cause they’ve told me). Some undocumented kids speak perfect English — they came here at age six, and are now 18 — and made it all the way through school. Some of them write better than my native-born ones.

    And don’t get me started on the undocumented Armenian/Russian students we have around here.

    I’d lie for all of them in a heartbeat.

    This is an exciting time to be in any kind of public education in L.A!

  4. Well, duh, obviously Republicans don’t like the idea of those guys being the new boss, which is why they’d be fighting tooth and nail to keep them out of the country if they were smart and had no scruples (and they really don’t have scruples, which leaves just the smartness thing).

  7. I should clarify: I do think it’s a good idea to learn English, and everyone should make the effort to do so. I just don’t like making it an absolute requirement through law.

    Kind of like my stance on spousal notification: good idea to discuss abortion, ridiculously bad idea to make it law.

  8. No, didn’t see them — but had some kids absent today who phoned in their excuse, saying they were walking out.

    I believe them.

  9. Illegal immigration has created a large populous of essentially slaves in america. These people tend to work for crap wages in crap jobs and live in crap housing. Why? Cause employers have all the leverage and abuse them mercilessly. Legalizing the current illegals might be a fine thing but if we maintain porpous borders all that is going to happen is a new set of illegals will replace them.

    Stopping illegal immigration is an issue that should unite the right and left for different reasons (security/humanitarian). Of course politics never seem to work out as they should.

    I’m all for humanitarian treatment of all immigrants and that should be a significant consideration for any solution, but at the same time the influx of illegal immigrants needs to stop.

  10. Reason #1,067 why local news sucks.

    The teaser for NBC’s LA affliate’s 11pm news tonight: students walk out, how much will it cost the taxpayers?

    No mention of why they were walking out or even which day. (Friday? or today? I’ve heard about both.)

    The accompanying footage, btw, was of kids climbing over a large chain link fence.

    grrr

    This would be why I read blogs, newspapers, and magazines and skip the news shows.

  11. It’s ridiculous that the Righties, especially the Minute Men, are trying to make illegal immigration seem like a big crisis. Did I miss the memo? It doesn’t seem like we’re getting that much more illegal immigrants every year than any other year. The Latino community is growing, so I guess that freaks Conservatives out, and many immigrants are settling down in the Bible Belt.

    Is all the Right-Wing hand-wringing on this issue the result of racism? They just can’t stand the thought of having to live side-by-side with Latinos, while the rest of us are perfectly aware that it’s no big deal?

  12. Boing Boing is reporting that the walk out was organized and not exactly spontaneous. Apparently, students organized through MySpace.com. Excellent.

  13. I should clarify: I do think it’s a good idea to learn English, and everyone should make the effort to do so. I just don’t like making it an absolute requirement through law.

    I think if you look at any country’s immigration requirements, proficiency in at least one of the dominant or official languages is necessary for naturalization. They want to be sure that you’re going to be able to become a productive member of society, and being able to communicate is one indicator of that. Canada, for instance, gives additional points on their skilled-worker immigration test for language skills.

  14. I wonder if these English requirements come from people who have any damned idea how hard it is learning a language as an adult. I speak two other languages and it requires immersion in the country of origin to really polish your skills. What no one realizes, too, is that there’s four things to learn: reading, writing, listening, and speaking. Four different things to get proficiant. It’s also profoundly disconnecting to be an environment where the foreign language is everywhere, even when you’re fluent. Some people simply don’t have the ability to learn language easily; it’s like being musical.

    Argh, that was supposed to be coherent.

  15. I understand the motivation behind requiring English and agree that it’s a good idea, but I also see the point of people who bring up how difficult it is to learn a language and how dangerous it is to mandate anything. Perhaps a “happy medium” would be (and yes, I realize there’s not the funds for this given our current fiscal state, but one can dream) to set up volunteer ESL centers in areas with high immigration. Then, when immigrants apply for naturalization, instead of being tested on a required level of English skill, they are instead referred to free classes at their local volunteer center.

    While it’s difficult to learn as an adult, even some moderate proficiency to get non-speakers started would help their ability to function in society (and be aware of their rights). Living in the country, watching TV, etc. I think could plausibly provide the rest of the immersion necessary to get to a functional communication level in English. And children, relatives and friends can always provide the rest of the help.

    I see so many easy, everybody-wins ways to address the issue, but how do you deal with the lack of funds and the xenophobia?

    Oh, well. Sigh. Just a thought.

  16. Jill Says:
    March 27th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
    Not to mention, you know, the difficulties of learning English when you’re trying to escape poverty, oppression or violence and you don’t exactly have the privilege of signing up for language courses at the local community college.

    I can understand giving them a few years to learn a language–we all need it. But I’m not sure what people are getting upset about with expecting people to learn English eventually. When people come here from other countries–China, Japan, anywhere in Africa or Europe, etc.–they usually have to pass TOEFL to get into college, and have English proficiency in order to get jobs.

    My ex-b/f came here in “tough conditions” and poverty from Iraq as a Gulf War refugee (effectively). His school still didn’t speak Arabic for him–he learned English.

    A job world where some people speak English and others speak none would be, I’d imagine, rather difficult. And in most other countries you *are* expected to speak the national language if you are educated. Is it “racist” for India to expect its population to speak Hindi? is it “racist” when Americans expat abroad and are expected to learn the language there? So why is it bigotry to expect our Hispanic immigrants–just like our immigrants from everywhere else–to learn English?

    Why do people often seem to make exceptions just for this one group? I’m not trying to argue, I just curiously want to know. (Or maybe that isn’t what you’re saying, so apologies in advance if I misinterpreted that).

  17. What no one realizes, too, is that there’s four things to learn: reading, writing, listening, and speaking.

    I lived in France for a while to learn French; so I heartily agree. It was the third skill that I could never master with French, but that’s the challenge of a language that basically throws half of every word into the garbage can in the translation from written to speech.

  18. lived in France for a while to learn French; so I heartily agree. It was the third skill that I could never master with French, but that’s the challenge of a language that basically throws half of every word into the garbage can in the translation from written to speech.

    I agree that we should be giving them time to learn, and shouldn’t expect perfection within two years or anything like that. And many would argue that it’s useful for Americans to be familiar with the language of its biggest immigrant group (Spanish).

    But I don’t believe it’s just to ask American citizens to learn Spanish if Hispanic immigrants are not expected to learn English. It should be reciprocal. This *is* an English-speaking country, and you *do* need to know it in order to be successful here.

    Not to expect that would be to relegate these immigrants to menial labor more or less permanently. You are not going to get hired as a major financial analyst for Morgan Stanley while speaking Spanish only. You’ll need fairly good English proficiency. The same goes for any customer service job. Not learning English might work for a dishwasher, but not much more than that.

  19. I lived in France for a while to learn French; so I heartily agree. It was the third skill that I could never master with French, but that’s the challenge of a language that basically throws half of every word into the garbage can in the translation from written to speech.

    See, I had an easier time listening than I did speaking. But I didn’t live there, either — just visiting.

    I should clarify — I had an easier time listening *in Paris.* When I had gone to Montreal, I couldn’t understand a damn thing they were saying to me, and my French classes were fresher then than when I went to Paris.

  20. Zuzu–Languages are interesting that way. My sister is completely fluent in Spanish, and while it’s a cinch for her to understand Mexican and I think Costa Rican Spanish, she has the most trouble with Puerto Rican and Argentinian Spanish. They tend to speak more rapidly and clip words off at the end. So, there are a lot of different dialects.

    I’ve heard that at least for Asians learning English, Southern English is the easiest because it’s spoken more slowly, or Midwestern since they pronounce every letter (no dropping R’s, etc.). One friend of mine from Japan though said that the hardest for her was New York African-American English. Apparently the combination made it hard to pick up on.

    I’ve been speaking English my whole life, but I still cannot for the life of me understand what my Guyanese-Indian friends are saying on the phone. The combination of Caribbean and (India) makes it embarrassingly difficult.

    I wonder if there’s any research regarding in what parts of the country immigrants learn English the fastest.

  21. My friend’s dad came from Taiwan and learned English at Vanderbilt, so he had the weirdest accent and used “y’all” a lot. My friend was thoroughly a Michigander, with all the flat vowels that implies.

    Her parents did not speak Chinese in the home once they had learned enough to get along in the world, because they wanted her to assimilate (she now wishes they had spoken Chinese so she wouldn’t have to re-learn it). Anna’s father learned more rapidly than her mother, because he was a professor of engineering and had to learn to communicate. Her mother leaned on Anna a lot for communication, because she was a housewife and her contact with the outside world was more limited.

  22. Yeah–and my ex spoke with a really strong Midwestern twang (very flat “a’s” etc.), stronger than anything my relatives have, because they came straight from Iraq to Wisconsin! I never heard that much Wisconsinese accent at home, because my mom is from NJ and my dad a broadcast journalist (they’re trained to lose the regional accent). But now that I live out East, I really notice it when we go visit my fam at the holidays.

  23. There were walkouts in all the schools here in the Red State. It was great.

    Of course, in addition to everything else, looks like the VAWA protections for battered immigrant women may go by the wayside with all this…. rrrrr

  24. There have been tons of protesting here as well in this red state (Arizona). I couldn’t be more impressed.

    As for spanish, I have no problems understanding Mexican spanish, but Cuban and Puerto Rican spanish is just too fast for me, not to mention a lot of the words are different.

    I have to agree that learning english would be beneficial in the long run for immigrants, but for us who live down in these border states, learning another language other than english would be beneficial as well.

  25. the influx of illegal immigrants needs to stop.

    Why? Or rather, why not end it by making it simple for anyone to become a legal immigrant? Everyone, even the most native of “native Americans” is ultimately descended from an immigrant. Generally, people who have the initiative and ability to migrate are the ones you want in your society: they’re more likely to be interested in getting an education, a job, etc than average. They wouldn’t have bothered with the trouble and expense of moving, not to mention the loss of family, familiar culture, etc if they weren’t motivated to improve their lives.

    My idea is this: Anyone who doesn’t have a criminal record, active warrent for their arrest, or previous declaration as personna non grata automatically has permission to stay in the US. If they have any of the above, they can still apply for permission, it just isn’t granted automatically. Some of them will have arrest records because they were involved politically in a way that the government disapproved and that subgroup is obviously one you want for the country.

    So, essentially anyone can stay. If they don’t come to the negative attention of the government (ie get arrested, apply for welfare, whatever) for a certain period of time, maybe 5 years, they get citizenship if they want it. Again, if they have been arrested or applied for welfare they can apply, but it’s not automatically granted.

    I’ve heard it argued that this sort of plan would let terrorists in. I claim that this is not a major problem for several reasons. First, the time delay: what hot headed and possibly crazy terrorist is going to want to wait five years? Two, most potential terrorists probably have some sort of record of getting into trouble so their background checks should weed out most of them. Finally, so what if they do get in? There have been and are terrorists with US citizenship, some born here, some immigrants, in the past and present. There will be in the future. We have laws to deal with that sort of thing. And if they aren’t effective enough to deal with immigrant terrorists, why should we believe that they are effective against native born terrorists?

  26. Why? Or rather, why not end it by making it simple for anyone to become a legal immigrant?

    That’s a possible solution. My point was that illegal immigration puts people in entirely too vulnerable a state, and they get taken advantage of by being paid substandard wages with little or no job protection because if they complain about anything they’ll be picked up by INS.

    Personally I doubt we should let just anyone cross the border who wants to, but a fairly liberal immigration policy would probably be okay.

    Everyone, even the most native of “native Americans” is ultimately descended from an immigrant.

    True but not really relevent. No one is saying they are bad people for wanting to immigrate. However the sociopolitical climate means that unfettered illegal immigration is a problem.

  27. I have a mechanic that i have work on my trucks and cars when i need him to. He and a younger man own a shop together. The younger one speaks english fluently and has been going to school nights at the loca tech college, I’ve seen him there when i was at classes.

    The older man, who basically runs the shop and has most of the authority, struggles with learning english. He and I joke around because often we both make lame attempts to speak to eachother with little positive outcome. He has a wife and family.

    They are from Puerto Rico and so not really immigrants, but any white person around here will feel free to lump them altogether.

    When you offer up to people who are supposedly so hot against illegals, the possibility of amnesty or open borders, they get even hotter under the color. Nationalism, xenophobia and of course ‘fear of losing the american way’ pretty much translate to that old bugger; racism.

  28. I wonder if these English requirements come from people who have any damned idea how hard it is learning a language as an adult. I speak two other languages and it requires immersion in the country of origin to really polish your skills. What no one realizes, too, is that there’s four things to learn: reading, writing, listening, and speaking. Four different things to get proficiant. It’s also profoundly disconnecting to be an environment where the foreign language is everywhere, even when you’re fluent. Some people simply don’t have the ability to learn language easily; it’s like being musical.

    I’m glad you made this remark. I’m one of those people who can’t learn a foreign language–even though I desire to.

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