In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

4 juvenile Pallas cats lying on a bed of straw in a wooden box

Weekly Open Thread with Manuls Inna Box

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Can you handle the fluff?  These Pallas Cats (aka manuls) are possibly the fluffiest Open Thread hosts we’ve had. Please natter/chatter/vent/rant on anything* you like over this weekend and throughout the week.

4 juvenile Pallas cats lying on a bed of straw in a wooden box
You can’t handle the fluff! | Image via itsnature.org

So, what have you been up to? What would you rather be up to? What’s been awesome/awful?
Reading? Watching? Making? Meeting?
What has [insert awesome inspiration/fave fansquee/guilty pleasure/dastardly ne’er-do-well/threat to all civilised life on the planet du jour] been up to?

* Netiquette footnotes:
* There is no off-topic on the Weekly Open Thread, but consider whether your comment would be on-topic on any recent thread and thus better belongs there.
* If your comment touches on topics known to generally result in thread-jacking, you will be expected to take the discussion to #spillover instead of overshadowing the social/circuit-breaking aspects of this thread.

72 thoughts on Weekly Open Thread with Manuls Inna Box

  2. I saw a dobsonfly for the first time ever and that pretty much made my week (that either says something about how much I like bugs or something about how sad my life is. Take your pick.) The one I saw was lovely, but apparently for most of their life they’re pretty much worms with enormous pincers on their heads, and they bite.

  3. I’ve nearly finished knitting the back of my chocolate-coloured tunic: eleven rows to go! Then it’s just the sleeves and sewing it all up. I hope the cold weather holds out a few more weeks at least, so I get a chance to wear it before next winter.

  4. So, my book research continues — that’s the book on numeracy and cultural attitudes about math. I know there are quite a few trans* folks who are part of the community, and I was wondering: If you are a trans* man, did taking testosterone (assuming that was part of the transition, of course) change how you felt about math and your ability to do it? And if you are a trans* woman, did taking estrogen (again, assuming that was part of the transition process) change how you felt about math and your ability to do it?
    Thanks to anyone willing to participate!

    1. if you are a trans* woman, did taking estrogen (again, assuming that was part of the transition process) change how you felt about math and your ability to do it?

      There are so many offensive jokes that have been inspired by that kind of question, and believe me, I’ve probably heard all of them.

      But the answer in my case happens to be no. I’ve always completely lacked confidence in my math abilities, ever since junior high school at the latest — getting a very high score on the math SAT’s didn’t help at all, since I came very close to flunking advanced algebra at almost the same time! — and 13 years of estrogen have made no difference in that area, one way or the other. Nor has there been any difference in my actual abilities, one way or the other, so far as I can tell.

      1. Thanks!
        And that is not meant to be an offensive joke in any way! Wow, people suck.
        I’m researching the possible effect of hormones on math ability, based on several interviews with trans* men, who report differences after taking testosterone. I wanted to talk to trans* women also, because their perspective is important.
        Thanks again!

      2. I’ve been taking estrogen for 7 years, and I’ve noticed no difference in math skills. (I’ve always been pretty poor at math.)

      3. point of curiosity: did your tastes change? like you know, not your taste in movies or whatever but your actual physical taste. An acquaintance of mine said she lost her taste for beer/gained more of a taste for sweets. I would hate for that to happen (the beer thing) but I thought that was really cool…

        1. Not mine, that I noticed.

          Apart from the obvious physical changes, the most notable change (as stereotypical as it may sound) was that I started crying all the time at the drop of a hat. (I don’t think it was only because I was in a very difficult situation, in a lot of ways, at that time.) That lasted a year or so, although it still happens more than it did before. I’m pretty sure it had a lot to do with the huge changes in hormone levels; once that became more stable, the emotional volatility decreased.

        2. Haha. Well, I’m no stereotype buster. I’m basically endless tears encased in a skin sack.

    2. I’m a trans woman. I experienced no difference in my feelings about math or my ability to do math as a direct result of taking estrogen. I started my physical transition in my mid 20s. I am now in my mid 40s.

      There is an important qualifier here, though.

      After many years of having the world view me as a woman, the accumulated social impact of that experience has served to subtly undermine my sense of confidence in dealing with math/tech related things. Even though I’m aware of that effect having taken place, the effect still has a way of “weaseling in” around the corners of my psyche.

      The irony is that I was an engineering major in college (mostly before transition) and I worked as an IT person for many years, post-transition. Regardless, society’s mind-fuckery around gender had its impact, even if it was a subtle one.

      All in all, the direct impact of the physical changes surrounding transition were pretty small when compared to the accompanying shift in how the world treated me. At no point during my physical transition was I like, “Oh my god, I feel so different! I’m becoming a different person!” However, I was pretty wowed by how people’s treatment of me changed. That wasn’t a major surprise since I had many Women’s Studies courses prior to transition, but I was still amazed at the depth of the shift in people’s behaviors—especially men’s behaviors.

      Of course, on a feminist website, I imagine that’s hardly a ground-shaking revelation. 😉

      2. I’ve read about that (in a mainstream paper – wonders never cease) about the huge difference in how people were treated by colleagues after they transitioned. This was in the science fields, iirc, and it was just what you’d expect: trans* men were given a voice, listened to, and respected, far more than before they transitioned. Trans* women received the opposite treatment: their work, ideas, voices, previously respected because they were perceived as men, were ignored or discounted, and in at least one case the woman received death threats from colleagues.

        Not that this is going to be news to any trans* people, either … but it’s a real case in point of how “ability” is wrapped up in the encouragement or discouragement (to put it mildly) one receives according to whether one is seen as male or female.

        2. You should read what Ben Barres has said about his experiences as a scientist before and after his transition, and how much more respect he automatically gets now, as a man:

          http://www.autostraddle.com/dr-ben-barres-knows-that-misogyny-in-the-sciences-is-real-143199/

          Ben Barres had just finished giving a seminar at the prestigious Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research 10 years ago, describing to scientists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard and other top institutions his discoveries about nerve cells called glia. As the applause died down, a friend later told him, one scientist turned to another and remarked what a great seminar it had been, adding, “Ben Barres’s work is much better than his sister’s.”

          Dr. Barres does not have a sister. In fact, the scientist was remembering Dr. Barres in previous years. Same research. Same person. But he was taken more seriously while presenting as male. This is an experience many of us feel personally every day, regardless of which field we work in.

        3. And yes, I’ve noticed a difference in how I’m initially perceived by other lawyers who don’t know me, ever since I transitioned 8 years ago, as opposed to how it was before then. Although in some ways my experience may be atypical, because I was not someone who received a great deal of automatic respect as a guy, both because of my lack of physical presence and my noticeable discomfort with myself.

          I do try to make it clear in meetings, as early as possible, that I’m not someone who can easily be pushed around or talked over, and that I know what I’m talking about as much as anybody in the room. And I’m actually better able to do that than I used to be, simply because I have a great deal more self-confidence, and am a great deal more comfortable with myself, than I ever was before. The lack of it showed before, and I think its presence shows now.

    3. I do have a question to ask. What about those people whose transitions did not involve hormonal intervention? A trans person’s self concept can alter dramatically without physical transformation simply by coming to accept themselves as the gender/sex they feel more comfortable being.

      Personally, much of my concept of self shifted between 17 years of age when I came to accept myself as a woman and my mid 20s when I embarked upon physical transition. In many ways, I found that “early” shifting in self to be fundamentally more important than the physical changes I experienced. It formed an ever-present foundation for all of the change that came during and after physical transition.

      If you come to see yourself as a sex/gender different from the one which was assigned at birth, regardless of the body you currently wear, this inevitably has an impact upon how you behave, your perceptions of the world, and your overall perceptions of self.

      1. That’s an excellent question. I honestly don’t think it’s possible not to absorb society’s messages on gender, because we’re neck deep in society. You know, can’t see the forest for the trees, etc.

  5. Sigh. Ever feeling like you’re figuratively speaking an entirely different language from a loved one?

    I feel like I’m being warned about the possibility of being eaten by a bear, only I’m from another planet with no concept of bears – or that my understanding of bears has always been that bears are small, cuddly woodland creatures who eat lettuce and have fluffy tails – and when I try to explain that I don’t understand why one would eat me I’m getting an impatient response of “you know… Bears? They’re brown? Bears!”

    ( this really has nothing to do with bears, I’m just planning on camping next week, so there’s a lot of bear talk going around here.)

  7. This week I have been thinking a lot about homophobia. While in line at a (bad for me) fast food restaurant I was addressed by a homophobic slur by a young man. He was another customer, not one of the staff. The manager on duty happened to be next to the cashier and heard it, and told the young man to leave. It happened so fast, I really didn’t have time to think about what was going on. I think the young man might have caused trouble there before. Central, suburban, Iowa is usually a pretty tolerant place, so it’s tempting to dismiss it as simply bad behavior. But did illustrate how deeply the language of homophobia runs in this country.

    1. I’m sorry that happened to you. And you’re right that it can happen anywhere. I can’t think of a single person I know with a history of being perceived by people as LGBT (whether or not they actually are) who hasn’t suffered verbal abuse (at least) because of it, by strangers and/or by people who know them. Not one.

      1. I consider myself extremely lucky that I’ve only been verbally abused by strangers once each for being trans (on the subway, early in my transition: “What is this, the Jerry Springer Show?”) and for being a woman (“ugly old bitch!”). Being middle-aged and very short has its advantages, I guess — I’m noticed less.

      2. Let me see if I can rephrase this to avoid moderation:

        I consider myself extremely lucky that I’ve only been verbally abused by strangers once each for being trans (on the subway, early in my transition: “What is this, the Jerry Springer Show?”) and for being a woman (“ugly old b—-”). Being middle-aged and very short has its advantages, I guess — I’m noticed less.

      1. I can’t help but think how bad I would have felt if that was what I identified as. Not being gay I can simply write it off as he was a jerk, but then I start to think about how much it would have hurt me if I was gay. I’m sorry if that come across as offensive, I’m trying really hard not to be. The thing is, it startled me how easily I dismissed it because it didn’t apply. I think that if I was somewhere that language was more common, I might not have even thought about it, and that is the really bad part of it.

        1. I think I’ve written about how my son gets called words like that in the street (and elsewhere), and how upsetting it is, even though he puts on a brave front.

        2. I was walking through my city holding my girlfriend’s hand (to gay choir, of all places!) and two teenage boys shouted, “Lesbians!” after us. Which – no shit Sherlock, and it’s not a slur, and we are lesbians, and they kept going and it was a main street in daylight with other people around but –

          It was still scary. I think not because I thought they’d hurt us, but because it totally shattered any feeling of being safe, and no-one else stopped or said anything. Like a reminder that, oh, hey, you’ll never get to just go about your day like a straight couple and have this not happen to you.

        3. I think I’ve written about how my son gets called words like that in the street (and elsewhere), and how upsetting it is, even though he puts on a brave front.

          When I was your sons age, I got the same thing just because of the way I dressed. But at least I knew deep down I wasn’t being insulted for my actual orientation, just what I was perceived to be (from cars, the word most usually yelled was ‘faggot,’ on several occasions followed by a hurled beer bottle or a fast food soda.) SO I can only imagine how much more exponentially upsetting it would be for him.

  8. I’m trying not to dominate the open thread, but I have to say, it’s amazing how one can feel that their brain is lying in pieces on the floor. Then, with the PROPER (that’s the tricky part) medication, it’s like suddenly being able to think again. I’m feeling as if the last two years and the hospitalization are part of a fever dream that I’m suddenly waking from. I’m not blinded enough to reality to think that there are not going to be anymore ups and downs, but I have medication, we can afford it (barely), I’m taking it, and I feel awesome.

  9. I am sick to death of the word “bitch.” Talking to my mother and my father chimes in with, “Feminists? I just call them bitches.” Really. Bitches. Well alrighty then. I know he’s old, but really.

  10. I started an antidepressant this week. Much needed, and it’s doing its job. Eating and sleeping kind of sucks though. I have ridiculous numbers of nightmares about the stuff I’m not dealing with in the day time anymore, and have been waking up a million times a night. Anyone else have this issue? Please tell me it goes away, because it sucks (though not enough for me to stop taking them).

    1. I wrote about my pharmaceutical experience directly above this yesterday, but it went into moderation. I’m sorry you are having a hard time with it, and now I feel like a grade-a asshole because of how much better I feel on my meds. I haven’t had that particular experience, but I can say I’ve been through 4 just to find one that worked and didn’t have major side-effects. I know this probably isn’t comforting, but hang in there, it can get better.

      1. Oh no! Don’t feel like a butt. That’s the point, right? Feeling better? I don’t begrudge people who find the right level of drugs for them, the same way I don’t get angry at people for not needing drugs at all. The sleep thing really sucks, but I’m hoping I can turn it into something somewhat positive (I really want to start running in the morning, haha, and if I can’t sleep, I don’t have a great excuse not to do it).

        Looking forward to seeing your post when it comes out of moderation, and I’m really, REALLY happy it worked out for you. It makes me feel like maybe it’s a little trial-and-error, rather than something unfixable. (I’m still crossing my fingers for a thyroid issue, which’ll address some other minor issues).

        …And frankly, given that my reaction was this, and not “MNAH, ALL OF THE PEOPLE ARE FIXED AND I NEVER WILL BE” (which would have been me a week ago) is such a fucking positive for me, that I’m really happy with how I’m doing.

        1. Oh, it took four different drugs before I found one that worked. Then my brain got all wonky again, so we tried to swap it out, twice, and my brain REALLY hated all of that, so now I’m on the same as the one that that was working for a while plus one more, so now I’m on more meds than when I started for my epilepsy. But hey, no seizures, and my brain has been minding its manners.

          My experience in dealing with drugs that muck about with how your brain responds to things is that it takes a little bit for things to get settled. My old neurologist and I were puzzled by the fact that I used to hear live ensemble jazz music, Louis Armstrong flavor, while I was wide awake in bed, lights on, reading. It eventually went away, but still, it was BIZARRE. Same thing with the hallucinatory spiders at night. (SO MUCH FUN TO WAKE UP TO, YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW) The brain, it’s weird. So just keep in contact with the doc that proscribed the drug, and let them know of any effects you find intolerable, as a drug shouldn’t make your life unlivable if it is supposed to make you healthier. The one thing is you just have to give your brain a bit to adjust to the new chemicals. If it was making you throw up all the time, or giving you painful constipation or something, it would be a different story. Your brain is just trying to find a balance.

        2. Oh no! Don’t feel like a butt. That’s the point, right? Feeling better? I don’t begrudge people who find the right level of drugs for them, the same way I don’t get angry at people for not needing drugs at all.

          Is ‘Don’t feel like butt,’ a reference to smoking? If so, I took an anti-depressant (WelButrin) to help me quit smoking and the way it helped at a certain level but fucked me royally at a different level, allows me to say I can totally concur about ‘the right level of drugs’

          P.S. Disregard if the butt comment was your way of being polite after RS called herself an ‘asshole’

        3. Nah, I meant when she called herself an asshole.

          But it’s funny that you mention it, because that’s the one I’m on. Slowly getting better – sleep is still a little disrupted, and my appetite went from non-existent to “sudden nausea when I think my body wanted food” to “relatively normal, but still feel incredibly full too fast.”

        4. But it’s funny that you mention it, because that’s the one I’m on. Slowly getting better – sleep is still a little disrupted, and my appetite went from non-existent to “sudden nausea when I think my body wanted food” to “relatively normal, but still feel incredibly full too fast.”

          Sleep is definitely an issue and, your doctor may recommend it, but I can warn against the dangers of becoming reliant on Xanax (or even starting to use it at all.) It will help you sleep through the night, but comes with it’s own set of issues. I used the lack of appetite thing to my advantage and ate only healthy foods, so I actually trimmed down quite a bit, but I also wouldn’t recommend using it as a diet/exercise plan.

        5. But it’s funny that you mention it, because that’s the one I’m on.

          Me too. Well actually a generic because I am very poor.

  12. I’ve been oh, so busy filling in the hiatus from Feministe with running my 1yo to the ENT to get a Lego out of his nose. That he jammed up there last Friday and that just would not come out. He ended up needing outpatient surgery yesterday to have it removed, and is recovering just fine.

    Darn little toys and their teeny, tiny pieces. Looking so, so enticing to little ones who want to see if they will fit in their noses.

    I feel a mass toy purge coming on…

    1. I remember shoving some colorforms up my nose until they disappeared, when I was about two. I think they might still be there.

    3. Thanks for the well wishes, everyone. He’s fine, although still surprisingly drawn to the Legos. What is it with kids wanting to see what will fit in their various orifices, anyway?

        1. Yes! It’s in a specimen cup, and I shall keep it to remind him of how he has not always been correct about whatever passing fancy seeming like the best idea ever. For the rest of his childhood, and possibly adulthood as well.

  13. Can we talk about how much this country hates black children? Give them lead poisoning, gun them down in the street, deny them heart transplants…

    My hands are shaking, I’m so angry and upset about this. A 15-year-old has a “history of non-compliance”? So did I when I was a teenager–because I was a teenager. That history, by the way, includes “low grades.” Low grades. For fuck’s sake.

    2. I know – it’s sickening. Thankfully they’ve reconsidered and allowed him to be put on the list, but of course they are scrambling to cover their asses and explain how it’s totally not at all about race.

      Of course, it is about race, but even if it magically weren’t, I’d find a system that uses low grades as a reason to deny a teenager a lifesaving procedure problematic as fuck anyway. Yes, the supply of organs is too small to meet the need, but that doesn’t mean that the current system isn’t massively screwed up in how it apportions those organs anyway, beyond the racism.

      Also, don’t read the comments on that article, it’s really vile in places.

      1. I just found out! On the one hand, I’m so glad. On the other, still, fuck these doctors. It’s pretty clear that they only “reconsidered” because of public outcry, racist would-be child-killers that they showed themselves to be. How many other black children have they denied critical care to because of some bullshit like this?

      1. While I appreciate the sentiment you’re expressing, I feel the need to point out that he’s still a teen-aged boy and not yet a man. Young black people should be allowed to be, to act like, and be recognized as the children that they are (just like white kids), and not always referred to as young men and women.

        1. I apologize for my thoughtless terminology. I was in no way trying to imply that his past be held to standards of adulthood.

  14. Yay for manuls! :3

    This week has been incredibly stressful to me. There is a lot I’m dealing with right now (everything from being screamed at to a huge mess regarding the offer of admission from my university), so I’ll just say this: last night, my uncle accidentally saw that I bookmarked this in my browser, and he was laughing about it. I just told him that it was a random website a friend of mine sent me in jest. Now I’m extremely worried about him stumbling upon something similar.

    1. Yay for manuls! :3

      This week has been incredibly stressful to me. There is a lot I’m dealing with right now (everything from being screamed at to a huge mess regarding the offer of admission from my university), so I’ll just say this: last night, my uncle accidentally saw that I bookmarked this in my browser, and he was laughing about it. I just told him that it was a random website a friend of mine sent me in jest. Now I’m extremely worried about him stumbling upon something similar.

      I do not envy your lack of privacy. Good luck with everything and hopefully one day your living situation will change and your home will be the place you go to escape from stress.

      1. I should note that this uncle respects my privacy for the most part, but yeah I certainly didn’t feel that it was respected at the time. It happened when he was helping me with pushing a Rails app to Heroku – he saw me type in the URL, which lead to a search suggestion of that bookmark mentioned above (the URL started with “my”). Needless to say, I’m starting to hate search suggestions in browsers.

        Speaking of coding, last night my father made me and my cousin do 4 hours of unpaid work to fix 3 major coding errors and a deployment problem. And my boss is very frustrated with me and my cousin because my father gave my boss unrealistic expectations of the two of us. (My father actually expected us, two novice Ruby on Rails developers with no prior experience, to finish a full-blown, professional website in a month or less.) At this point I want to quit. My cousin is going to quit soon because his semester is starting in a few weeks, and I wanted to use that as an opportunity to quit, but it turns out that my father is going to make me keep working by replacing my cousin and becoming my work partner instead. So he wants to work side-by-side with me. Ugh. I’m just going to have to put my foot down and tell him I don’t want to work with him anymore after a certain project is finished.

        1. @Ally S

          Will you be taking classes Fall Semester? Any progress in finding a father-approved roommate?

        2. Well, after telling some of my aunts and uncles about my desire to leave my father as soon as possible, they have told me that they will try to talk my father into staying with a roommate who isn’t a Muslim and that they are willing to pay for on-campus housing (or off-campus housing close to campus) if he still refuses to pay for it. So I may have averted the issue of finding roommates.

        5. That’s wonderful Ally!!! Your aunties and uncles rock! You’re getting out of there, you can just see the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. Cheers

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