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Weekly Open Thread with Jubilant Spin

Moderator Team

This jubilant group of Punjabi women watching one of their number spin with the traditional charkha wheel are the hosts of this week’s open thread. Please natter/chatter/vent/rant on anything* you like over this weekend and throughout the week.

A group of Desi women in brilliantly coloured saris under a shady tree: clapping and celebrating (two of them a swinging on a plank and rope swing) while watching one woman spin using a traditional charkha wheel
A group of Punjabi women enjoying a jubilant gathering while one spins using a traditional charkha wheel
Source: desicomments.com
Wikipedia on the Charkha – the whole Spinning Wheel article is worth reading.

e.g. What have you been up to? What would you rather be up to? What’s been awesome/awful?
Reading? Watching? Making? Meeting?
What has [insert awesome inspiration/fave fansquee/guilty pleasure/dastardly ne’er-do-well/threat to all civilised life on the planet du jour] been up to?

* Netiquette footnotes:
* There is no off-topic on the Weekly Open Thread, but consider whether your comment would be on-topic on any recent thread and thus better belongs there.
* If your comment touches on topics known to generally result in thread-jacking, you will be expected to take the discussion to #spillover instead of overshadowing the social/circuit-breaking aspects of this thread.

156 thoughts on Weekly Open Thread with Jubilant Spin

  1. Sorry for dumping this here, but I feel like venting a bit. About family issues in particular.

    So apparently my father thinks the best way to take care of me when I have health problems is for him to be as condescending, narcissistic, and controlling as possible.

    This week, when I contracted a severe stomach virus, his response was basically like this: It’s all your fault because you’re messed up in the head, you’re disobedient, and you don’t care about your health. Also, did I ever tell you how much I love and care about you? I care about you so much that I won’t tolerate watching you die from sickness; therefore, I’ll kick you out of the house if you don’t eat exactly as I say and respect me no matter what. Oh, and I will NEVER do anything that you can’t handle, nor will I ever do something to harm you.

    Speaking of dying, he literally did think I was close to death even though I told him repeatedly that my condition wasn’t nearly as severe as he thought it was. I backed up my claims, too. He probably just thought (and still thinks) I look like a “sick man” because my facial appearance is more androgynous these days. And even though he insists that he’s some altruistic savior of our family, he has a history of threatening me with violence in response to my disobedience and even gaslighting me on occasion (like when he flatly denied ever putting me in a headlock for being rude to him).

    Lastly, whenever I told him that he was wrong about my condition, he openly accused me of lying and that he didn’t care about what I had to say. I also told him that my stomach pain was made worse by my anxiety, although since I didn’t tell him about the root of my anxiety (which I can’t afford to explain to him at this time), he just thought that I was stressed out only because I was ungrateful to God and the things God has given me in life. Because clearly the only people who are stressed out are the ones who don’t constantly thank Allah for everything.

    My desire to move out is greater than ever so far. Hopefully that’ll happen by the end of this year. The only other solution (in regards to not dealing with his awfulness) is for him to be someone I can love and trust for once. Seriously, I don’t even feel comfortable with him touching me. I’m too used to those same hands pushing me around and throwing things in anger. I feel horrible about having to see him in such a negative light but I can’t help it.

    1. On a related note: there are few things I despise more than my step-mother telling my little step-sisters to stop doing something so that they don’t make “Mommy and Daddy fight each other again” (because they often fight about the right way of taking care of my sisters). I guess threatening her own children with scenes of spousal conflict is just fine and dandy in her eyes. Despite the fact that my little sisters have cried their eyes out in response to such scenes.

      The world is full of icky things these days.

      1. I’ll add that she doesn’t do this all the time, but she just did it recently. I don’t know how to confront her about it as she’s sometimes very vengeful and arrogant when she’s questioned about her parenting.

        1. Oh, I’m so sorry, Aaliyah. I grew up in a house with conflict like that, and I always hated being told that my parents’ marital problems were my fault.

          And I’m so sorry about your controlling Dad – I live with my father too, and he is pretty awful when people are ill. I know how you feel: how do you tell a person who is convinced in his own mind that he is helping you that everything he is doing is making you more ill, and that what you really need from him is to listen to you.

    3. Oh, Aaliyah, I’m so sorry you have to put up with your dad’s abuse, and I hope you can get away from that situation soon.

      *Hugs* if you want them.

    6. Aaliyah, I tried to find something nice/new to say, but everyone got in ahead of me, so: what everyone said. D: Also your dad is being kind of a gigantonormous douche.

      1. Hostage takers and emotional blackmailers just loooove to get hold of a sick person. Since yer old man and mama are playing head games as if cash might be awarded for victory, would it be possible to do a little psych research and totally turn it around on them? (evil grin) Especially if you can avoid physical retaliation or even have a friend on standby to call the law and put an end to that, permanently?

        Even if you can’t, thinking about ways and means might give you something to smile or laugh about. Heal soon!

    7. Oh, Aaliyah, I’m so sorry. The only thing worse than being sick is not being taken care of by those nearest and dearest to you while being sick. I keep telling myself that I’m sure that your father must have all sorts of redeeming qualities, and that I should respect him for having helped to create such a wonderful person as you have shown yourself to be, but I find it hard to be anything but enraged on your behalf. Do your best to stay strong and take care of yourself. Is there a friend’s house you could convalesce at?

      1. Is there a friend’s house you could convalesce at?

        I don’t even have any friends who live close by, so no. But the thought of having a close friend or partner, especially one so kind as to let me stay at their house, is nice to think about. I can stay at my mom’s house but of course that doesn’t count and she lives three states away.

        I’m trying to make friends around here, but I feel that I often scare people away because I’m generally not a very approachable person. Usually, I’m very serious, unable to relax, and often putting myself down for no good reason. Because of that I find it very hard to believe people when they say they like me. So I sometimes drift into this “No one really cares; they’re just pretending” mindset and then slowly estrange myself from them. It certainly doesn’t help when I stand out like a sore thumb by laughing awkwardly, being too talkative, etc.

        I don’t know how I’m going to stop being like that since those problems are caused by my anxiety, depression, and self-loathing. Which, as anyone who has experienced those things knows, can’t be ignored or turned off. I guess I’ll just have to wait until I make enough money as a web developer I’ll try to go to therapy sessions. I have like $400 of gift money from my uncle but that’s probably not nearly enough since I need the money for other things, too.

        I’m very sorry for dumping this on you but I needed to vent. Right now I’m about to cry and I need to calm myself down. I’m just completely overwhelmed by everything. I won’t do it again if it annoys people. Maybe I’ll feel better after sleeping so good night everyone.

        1. Please, Aaliyah, if it helps you to vent, go right ahead. I can’t imagine that it annoys anyone, and if it did, anyone who felt like that isn’t worth paying attention to anyway! We’re all on your side. Sleep well.

        2. There’s no need to apologize–I’m just glad that you have these threads and that you feel safe enough in them to be able to talk about what you’re going through. I know too well how impossible it is to turn off feelings of depression and low self-worth, no matter how many people tell you that they’re wrong. It’s hard to make friends, particularly when you can’t be yourself, and you have some pretty major obstacles to being able to be your true self around others right now.

          But when it comes to people who care about you, you have all of us here, and your mother does count. She really does. Maybe talking to her on the phone might bring you some relief? I don’t know your situation with respect to her, so maybe not, but if she loves and cares for you and is somebody who can listen…it could at least help in the moment.

          I’m trying to think of ways you can get counseling services for little money. Does your school offer them? Sometimes clinics offer free/low-cost counseling as well, but I don’t know your area well enough to know if that’s an option. I have a memory of you looking into support groups at one point–did you find anything?

          I think you’re great, anyway.

        3. @Aaliyah

          I’m sorry you’re hurting and I’m sending you warm thoughts as I type these words. As bad as things are right now, just don’t forget that one day your life may be very different. One day you will not live in your father’s house and you will have more autonomy and emotional space to just be. One day things can be better.

          I second EG’s suggestion to seek mental health services. There may be one-on-one or group sessions available through your school. Also, do you have any ways to express yourself through the body? Do you run, knit, write, or something similar?

          Please, try not to feel weird about your need to vent. You deserve a space to get that stuff out and you deserve all the support you need. Sometimes a good cry really helps.

        4. Aaliayh,

          Please vent away; I dont’ believe that anyone here would mind.

          I wish things were better for you. What you are going through sounds really rough.

        5. your mother does count. She really does. Maybe talking to her on the phone might bring you some relief? I don’t know your situation with respect to her, so maybe not, but if she loves and cares for you and is somebody who can listen…it could at least help in the moment.

          I talk to her on the phone sometimes. I would talk to her more often if it weren’t for the fact that she’s a very busy SAHM and the anxiety I get whenever I talk to her openly in front of family members and in public. I only feel comfortable talking to her openly when I’m by myself. That probably sounds very strange but I can’t help it. I guess it’s because of shyness.

          I’m trying to think of ways you can get counseling services for little money. Does your school offer them? Sometimes clinics offer free/low-cost counseling as well, but I don’t know your area well enough to know if that’s an option. I have a memory of you looking into support groups at one point–did you find anything?

          My school does offer such services. I want to find a trans*-friendly counselor, though, and I don’t know if I can find one there (or at least I’m worried about having to deal with someone transphobic ). Someone here recently told me about a therapist who seems really good, but I don’t think I can afford her services at this time. I’ll just have to keep looking.

          I do go to a trans* support group. It’s nice and has been helpful so far. But we only meet every two weeks or so, and I’m not comfortable with being open about certain issues there because there are a lot people sitting there in front of me. I mean, don’t get me wrong – everyone there is very nice. I just feel uncomfortable talking about the things I’ve talked about in this thread in that group. Moreover, it’s only for trans*-related issues.

          Hopefully I’ll feel a little better today after going to the gym. And I’ll try to go running regularly once these allergies go away. It’s no cure, but in my experience, exercising regularly makes me feel somewhat happier.

        6. Someone here recently told me about a therapist who seems really good, but I don’t think I can afford her services at this time. I’ll just have to keep looking.

          Aaliyah
          Try contacting that particular therapist, she might work on a sliding scale or she may know of someone who does. Reach out to her, she may in some way be of help.

        7. I don’t have any good suggestions–though I’ll keep thinking–but I just wanted to say that nothing you wrote sounds weird to me. My most important conversations with my mother happen when it’s just the two of us; we have a special, personal relationship and I tell her things and in ways that I wouldn’t want to in front of anybody else. And I don’t think it’s strange not to feel completely comfortable in a support group either–they work really well for some people, not so well for others, somewhere in the middle for lots. I guess I just want to reinforce that all the feelings and dilemmas that you’re dealing with sound real and sound normal to me, because you get such a barrage of messages in this culture that you’re not normal, that you’re weird or wrong or something. But you are normal. What you’re feeling is normal and reasonable. It really is.

          I second trees’s suggestion of contacting the therapist who costs too much–if she’s trans-friendly, she’s probably hooked into a network of trans-friendly mental-health people and resources, and could pass you the name of somebody who would work for you. And maybe if you ask at your support group, when it meets? I don’t know if any of them are dealing with similar family issues, but if so, they may have ideas for help as well.

          Good luck. I’m thinking of you.

        8. Thank you EG. Reading that made me feel better.

          I would contact that therapist again about her sliding scale, but I emailed her not too long ago and she told me that she can’t see more patients than she’s currently seeing. But per EG’s suggestion, I’ll definitely ask the group about her.

          I just remembered another therapist someone suggested to me, though, and I’m going to contact her about her sliding scale.

  2. Semester finally ended. Had a good job interview, have a second soon. That was the good part of the day.

    Fuck mood swings. I was very very very angry and yelling at all things earlier for no good reason. Now I”m just worn out and blargh.

    Still happy with the girlfriend, though I do try and hide my mood swings from her becuase she’s been really stressed out and kind of depressed lately and i love her but for the first time I’m actively trying to less emotionally involved. I mean she knows I’m in love with her and it seems to be mutual. I’m just fucked up and scared and lonely and fucking bitter.

    I lost one of my best friends because I was too crazy and I miss her and I care more about that than my near 3 year relationship with my ex. Is that wierd?

    I don’t know. >< I'm just really stressed out and anxious I guess.

    1. I’m sorry to hear that, Hannah. Mood swings are awful – I know that well as I’ve been moodier than ever these days. I hope you regain your peace of mind and your relationship improves.

    2. I lost one of my best friends because I was too crazy and I miss her and I care more about that than my near 3 year relationship with my ex. Is that wierd?

      I don’t think so. My best friends have long been some of the most important people in my life–far more important than romantic partners. It’s horrible to lose one.

    3. It’s really hard. I’ve never had a “best friend,” but I essentially lost my two closest friends — I’d known one since I was 17, and the other since I was 20 — after I transitioned. I still miss them. Sometimes a lot. More than I miss either of my long-term relationships, really.

  3. I’m still on mostly-hiatus from blogging. My mother died following her long illness a few days ago, and we’re holding the funeral in a few days.

    I’m finding going through all the family photos for the tribute slideshow is quite comforting, and having found a wonderful funeral director is a blessing.

    I’m looking forward to Sydney’s first Cherchez La Femme feminist gathering on Sunday evening as a welcome distraction.

    4. Tigtog, I’m sorry about your loss. I realize that these are only words, and they can only do so much, but at least you know you have a group here pulling for you.

    5. Thank you all for your condolences and compassion.

      I’m finding a renewed appreciation for the power of ritual in emotional catharsis. My mum, like so many other parents, was an emotional lodestar for me, and working on a sufficiently grateful and celebratory memorial service is inspiring as well as mournful, and that combination is cathartic.

    7. Tigtog, I am so sorry.

      Side note: I think tribute slideshows can be extraordinarily beautiful. The family of a young woman whom I’d known since her childhood had one at her wake, and I spent a long time gazing as the photos went by. It was truly a work of art, made with such obvious love and so many memories, and captured something of her, I don’t know, vitality I guess. I think about that slideshow now when I think of her. And I feel sure your mom’s will be just as moving, mostly because of the way you write about her. Emotional lodestar pretty much says it.

    11. My condolences. Also hugs or whatever gesture of comfort you’d prefer. We’re here for you.

  4. This week has seemed to suck for everyone. Hugs for all!

    I’ve had a particularly bad week, but something of note is that I went on a date with a girl that turned out AWFUL. She was the most heteronormative lesbian I’ve ever met. This girl used gay as an insult. She made weird, offensive, overtly sexual comments to me on the train, in the museum, at dinner. She made a sexual comment and then hugged me from behind without my permission. She also expressed disgust at the idea of an unshaven pussy and then asked me if I was shaved. This was our first date. WTF?!?!

    Also, I’m sick and tired of how some lesbians feel it’s ok to ask me personal questions about my sexual history so I can prove how fucking bi I am. When straight people do it it’s bad enough, but I really shouldn’t expect it from my queer sisters-in-arms!

    Does anyone else use OKC on here? I found someone really nice on there when I first started, but after we broke up it’s been awful trying to date again.

        1. I was watching Dr Phil the other day and they had a woman on who had nearly been beaten to death by a man she met on Match.com. Dr Phil’s conclusion was that on line dating sites are filled with violent predators.

        2. Dr Phil’s conclusion was that on line dating sites are filled with violent predators.

          I totally agree. I mean…no women were ever beaten before they started meeting men online.

          With statistics like that, I’m appalled at all the women who go meet people they met online. Appalled, I tell you. 😉

      2. Ohhh yeah. It was hard not profile-stalking him, and it’s frustrating because he’s still considered a 93% match. I’ve had awkward OKC run-ins with another ex, as well as with the person who assaulted me. Both were embarrassing, to say the least.

        Update: Ooh goodie! I just got a message from an older white guy who wants me to be his Beyonce!

    2. Too bad about the date; it sounds gruesome.

      As for L/G-B relations, while there are issues where it seems reasonable to expect better from other non-straights, this issue seems perhaps framed more as one of monosexuality/non-monosexuality, for which the terrain is a lot less mapped out. Anyway, I hope things improve for you.

    3. Ugh, that’s really lousy. I had a major crush on a woman once that ended when she spent our second date waxing eloquent about how she could tell I wasn’t really into her, I would rather be with a man. By the tenth time she repeated that, she was half right–I didn’t want to be with her any more. Irony is, I had been very upfront about being bi specifically to respect any concerns she might have and to give her the option of not pursuing things if it made her uncomfortable. (Then I found out that after the first date, she’d called her recent ex to inform her that she was already dating “that hot girl from the coffee shop.” There was no third date.)

    3. It’s not actually usually like that at my job, except lately. I think it’s a thing with the folks a little younger than me (and we keep hiring a lot of fresh out of colleges) that have grown up in a progressive environment. They seem to think because they self identify as liberal, that absolves them from being courteous, and they seem to have grown up in an alternate universe where the C-bomb and the B-bomb aren’t loaded, gender based, misogynistic insults. Or they think they can somehow convince me that they’re not.

      And if one more stupid fuck tries to mansplain to me that, “you know, in England, the C word is no big deal.” Yeah, you dipshit, I know. My family is English. Guess what, we’re not in the fucking UK.

      I’m not being very eloquent, and I wish I could explain it better. It just gets my hackles up, and all I can do is stammer and curse. As hard as I try to not go ‘there’, what I’m basically saying is “god damn hipsters!”

      1. We must be living in the wrong part of England (or, conversely, the right part), because the C-word is the Last Great Linguistic Taboo as far as we can see.

        (Which is either about six miles, or twenty yards, depending on the choice of vantage point. It doesn’t get very tall around Slough, and somebody went and plonked a bloody great castle on the best hill.)

        1. I have heard it bandied about more casually by some Brits and Irish, but am more than happy to take your word for it, and accept that you know better than I. However, it’s definitely the go-to excuse for the fucktards over here who want to use it.

          Where abouts in England are you? My family was from Cambridge.

        2. Berkshire… the industrial bit, not the touristy bit.

          You know the poem about wanting “friendly bombs” to fall on Slough? Yeah, that Slough.

          Did spend a couple of years in Cambridge failing at Engineering, though.

          So you can tell ’em from us it’s a bloody great load of bollocks 😉

  7. The police action in Boston yesterday was about a mile from my apartment. I don’t like how the reaction to this kind of crime is often about dehumanizing the perpetrator as Evil in order to save the conception of humanity as essentially good. “It’s over!” Gawker said. “And Justice has won” says the Boston Police Twitter account.

    And the whole world was good again!
    Or.. how can we make the world good again?
    Remember on Sunday when the whole world was Starbucks sunny?
    How can I feel safe again?
    Where does pure evil come from?

    But really… I thought people were Good! This person is so Evil! How can I cast out this person effectively in order to restore the good reputation of Humanity?

    Why look, it’s God, our ideal manifestation of humanity on the grandest scale. Let us use this fantasy as the savior of humanity’s essential goodness in the face of those whose actions trash our good name.

    “He apprehends in ‘God’ the ultimate antithesis of his own ineluctable animal instincts; he reinterprets these animal instincts themselves as a form of guilt before God (as hostility, rebellion, insurrection against the ‘Lord’ the ‘father’, the primal ancestor and origin of the world); he stretches himself upon the contradiction ‘God’ and ‘Devil’; he ejects from himself all his denial of himself, of his nature, naturalness, and actuality, in the form of an affirmation, as something existent, corporeal, real, as God, as the holiness of God, as God the Judge, as God the Hangman, as the beyond, as eternity, as torment without end, as hell, as the immeasurability of punishment and guilt.”
    -Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, second essay, section 22

    Let us cast out these evil-doer’s humanity! Let us erase their names and their rights. Let us sacrifice these people to our God to show ourselves and everyone else the reverence we hold for our good ideals of human nature. Let us visit every horror upon these men in an effort to show our willingness to do violence to ourselves in the name of Good.

    Or, as Senator Lindsey Graham said in the terms of modern US political rhetoric:
    “If captured, I hope Administration will at least consider holding the Boston suspect as enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes.”

    …

    Gross. People are gross.

    1. “If captured, I hope Administration will at least consider holding the Boston suspect as enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes.”

      I bet they have the paperwork all ready in case they decide to exercise that option. Not that we’ll ever see it.

      1. It’s become so normal that WAPO reported the suspect’s Miranda rights/and to an attorney were being withheld for the time being. Straight report as an aside, no questioning it at all. I noted in the comments that this shouldn’t happen in the US and I got piled on because, he is a horrible terrorist and deserves no better. When I pointed out he was a US citizen I was told that could be fixed…

        3. It isn’t that his rights against self-incrimination or to an attorney are suspended. Suspension of Miranda rights means only that they don’t have to warn him of his 5th and 6th Amendment rights before speaking to him. I strongly suspect that if he’s watched any television over the last 10 years, he’s well aware of his Constitutional rights, and will exercise them if he wants to. Although what I most hope is that he does tell what he knows.

          Anyone who seriously believes that he’s going to be spirited away somewhere and waterboarded in a secret prison is suffering from what I happen to believe is a form of extreme naivete and inability to distinguish between different situations (the very kind of thinking that lends itself to conspiracy theories), as much as those who hold such views like to think of themselves as being healthily cynical. The fact is that he is a US citizen who was arrested in the US for a crime committed in the US. His motives, at this point, are not proven, as obvious as they may seem to be given his brother’s widely-expressed views. He is not going to Gitmo; he will be tried in the US criminal justice system; and he can’t be deprived of his citizenship before he’s convicted. (Although I’m not sure why they would bother even if they could, since it isn’t as if they ever plan to deport him.)

          In fact, I was initially a little sympathetic towards him, because of what all his friends said about him, and I thought perhaps he was acting under his older brother’s Rasputin-like influence. The more I read details about what he specifically did, the less sympathy I have. I hope and expect that he will spend the rest of his life in prison, and that he provides whatever information he can, perhaps in exchange for avoiding the death penalty.

          And I’m willing to admit to myself that one of the reasons I was inclined to feel sympathetic (and I know it’s true of others) was that he was such a beautiful child, with such an angelic face, in some of the photos I saw of him when he was younger. All that curly hair, the rosy cheeks, and so on. Not so different-looking ethnically from some people in my own family and from friends I’ve had; when I first saw the photos of him wearing the baseball cap, before I knew who he was, I thought he could be Greek or southern Italian or Jewish or, in fact, “Caucasian” in the literal sense.

          But I should have known better. I’ve seen too many photos of young men in the Einsatzgruppen who had the faces of angels, and personally murdered, without a second thought, thousands upon thousands of Jews in the fields and forests of the Ukraine, or Lithuania, or Belarus. And proudly posed for photographs while doing it, or afterwards standing next to the pits full of naked bodies, or as spectators viewing the carnage sitting in folding chairs wearing bathing suits and sunglasses, just as these two brothers must have known that they would be photographed.

          As I said, I should have known better.

        4. Comment in moderation pointing out that just because he didn’t get Miranda warnings of his Constitutional rights, doesn’t mean he’s deprived of those rights themselves; I’m quite sure that anyone growing up in the USA who’s watched a few cop shows is well aware of those rights without receiving express warnings, and I’m sure he will exercise them if he chooses to do so. He’s a US citizen arrested in the US for a crime committed in the US. He isn’t going to Gitmo. He will be tried in a regular court, and I sincerely hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

        5. Anyone who seriously believes that he’s going to be spirited away somewhere and waterboarded in a secret prison is suffering from what I happen to believe is a form of extreme naivete and inability to distinguish between different situations (the very kind of thinking that lends itself to conspiracy theories), as much as those who hold such views like to think of themselves as being healthily cynical.

          Suffering from a form of extreme naivete? Is that an official diagnosis? Is there a test for “healthy cynicism”? I think you are using the language of mental health to stigmatize those with whom you disagree.

          It’s very strange to say that someone who does not agree with your predictions for the future or has a specific view in this instance that you do not believe is possible is suffering from a pathological mental defect.

        7. Suffering from a form of extreme naivete? Is that an official diagnosis? Is there a test for “healthy cynicism”? I think you are using the language of mental health to stigmatize those with whom you disagree.

          ….whut? Mental health stigmatisation? I…I don’t see it. I mean, it could be as easily a physical affliction. Or, you know, a personality flaw, like saying ‘he suffers from an excess of hotheadedness’.

        8. Anyone who seriously believes that he’s going to be spirited away somewhere and waterboarded in a secret prison is suffering from what I happen to believe is a form of extreme naivete […] The fact is that he is a US citizen who was arrested in the US for a crime committed in the US.

          I do believe you are probably correct and that he will be tried in civilian court. But I am not sure why you consider it inconceivable that he will be spirited away to Gitmo and tortured.

          It has been done before with US citizens on US soil, after all (see Jose Padilla).

        9. Donna, you make some gross assumptions about television watching, as well as a person’s ability to recall important legal information under extreme pressure. Taken in the context of an administration only too happy to push the envelope of the tools they’ve been given, concern over the expansion of the public safety exception is not naivete. I don’t think he’ll disappear, but I think McCain and Graham probably have some like-minded allies inside the administration in favor of enemy combatant status. I hope the family retains counsel and when his throat heals he has full legal representation.

          Also, ick to the racial/ethnic profiling, glad you could admit it though. But invoking the Nazis? Really? I think I preferred your short form comment.

        10. A4, I really didn’t intend to suggest that anyone prone to believe in implausible conspiracies is mentally ill, although I suppose anything is possible with respect to any given individual. It’s more that I get incredibly annoyed by people like that who insist that anyone who doesn’t agree with them is being naive and childish.

          However, it’s hardly a question of mere “disagreement”; that implies that legitimate debate is possible. I do not think that so-called “9/11 truthers” (for example) are people with whom actual debate is possible or whose theories deserve to be debated. And I feel the same way about the rampant conspiracy theories that already abound with respect to what just happened in Boston, including the people who think that President Obama was behind it in order to justify the imposition of martial law, and that in fact maybe it didn’t even really happen (just like they claim that Newtown didn’t happen and those children didn’t really die), or those who claim that the Russians or the Israelis are responsible (and, now that the younger brother is at a so-called “Jewish hospital” and is being treated by trauma specialists including doctors from Israel, that they’ll make sure he dies). And I don’t think all that much more of people who believe there’s a serious possibility that (despite what Senator McCain and others have advocated), the younger brother is going to end up in Gitmo and never go to trial. I am hardly a person who places wholesale trust in the US criminal justice system, or in the moral probity of the people in charge, but as much as I think there are people who would love to use any and all “enhanced interrogation techniques” with him, I simply don’t believe it’s a reasonable possibility in these circumstances, where everything that happens from now on will happen under such intense public scrutiny.

        11. It has been done before with US citizens on US soil, after all (see Jose Padilla).

          Yes, even though in theory a number of his alleged crimes occurred outside the U.S. But you may recall that the Bush Administration eventually lost on that issue — they gave up before the case went to the Supreme Court — and Padilla’s case was transferred to the regular court system, where he was tried and convicted. It’s in light of that very outcome, in part, that I think there’s no reasonable possibility that anything similar could happen with this case. Not anymore.

      2. ick to the racial/ethnic profiling, glad you could admit it though. But invoking the Nazis? Really? I think I preferred your short form comment.

        For fuck’s sake. I don’t think you actually have the slightest idea what racial/ethnic profiling is. It’s assuming that someone is more likely to have committed a particular crime because they belong or appear to belong to a particular ethnic or racial group. Or, conversely, assuming without having any idea who committed a crime that it was committed by someone of a particular race or ethnicity.

        Neither of which, of course, is remotely what I said. Perhaps you’re one of those people who “doesn’t see” color. But there’s absolutely nothing wrong with seeing photos of the younger brother before anyone knew who he was, and knowing enough to think “he looks like he could be my cousin,” or that he could have been Greek. Or that he didn’t look Scandinavian. It has nothing to do with assumed guilt, and I didn’t say it did. In fact, it was almost the opposite (see below).

        And what exactly is wrong with pointing out an extreme example of why it is that I was wrong to have sympathy with someone simply because of his angelic appearance? Even though it’s obviously a human reaction to do so? If you actually understood what I said, you’d know that I was simply giving the most obvious proof of why my reaction was wrong. I was hardly calling him a Nazi. (Why do you think I specifically mentioned “thousands” of murders — as opposed to this guy’s 4?)

        1. In any event, I don’t think you or anyone else has any business, ever, telling me when it is or isn’t appropriate to mention “Nazis.” The Godwin principle, so far as I”m concerned, arises from the habit of some people who don’t really know very much about Nazis or the Holocaust to make invidious comparisons to it, or to equate things with it, at any and every opportunity. It happens to be a subject I know a great deal about it, and I’m not in the habit of equating anything to it, or making inappropriate comparisons to it. But I’m not going to refrain from making a point based on historical example just because someone might not get it.

        2. It’s assuming that someone is more likely to have committed a particular crime because they belong or appear to belong to a particular ethnic or racial group.

          Your statements were to the effect that your sympathy was partially rooted in his ethnic “sameness.” That fits the corollary of your definition, where ya know, the “nice looking boy” must have been confused/led-astray/otherwise corrupted when he did the bad thing. Excusing or sympathizing with racially similar people outside of the evidence is the flip side of the enforcement based racial profiling. I do see color, and I’m familiar with the definitions of words, but ad hominem away.

          As to the Nazi thing, juxtaposing the two is emotionally manipulative.

          And proudly posed for photographs while doing it, or afterwards standing next to the pits full of naked bodies, or as spectators viewing the carnage sitting in folding chairs wearing bathing suits and sunglasses, just as these two brothers must have known that they would be photographed.

          You’re entirely within your rights to use whatever similes you want. I know what you were saying, but I found the rhetoric in getting to the gist to be distasteful.

        3. Excusing or sympathizing with racially similar people outside of the evidence is the flip side of the enforcement based racial profiling.

          You’re making the false assumption that I thought he looked angelic primarily BECAUSE of his perceived ethnicity, and that I wouldn’t have had the same instinctive positive feeling towards a similarly sweet and angelic- looking young person (or child, really, since in the particular photo that most evoked that reaction, he was probably about 14) of a different race or ethnicity. (In fact, I would, and certainly have in the past.) After all, his brother looks similar ethnically, and I didn’t have the same instinctive reaction to his photos at all. (Whereas the angelic-looking Nazis I was thinking of don’t look anything like me or my family!) My point was very simply about innocent-looking appearance, particularly in a child or someone very young — whatever their ethnicity — not bearing any relationship to what someone is actually like. So I simply don’t accept your point that I was engaging in racial or ethnic profiling. It’s a quite different phenomenon, and I think if anyone was being “icky,” it was you in conflating them.

        4. All I had to go on was what you posted initially. What you’ve said now certainly expands on that, but the original post didn’t hold that sort of nuance in my reading.

          I agree with

          My point was very simply about innocent-looking appearance, particularly in a child or someone very young — whatever their ethnicity — not bearing any relationship to what someone is actually like.

        5. And speaking of “icky,” for you to even suggest that my reaction remotely resembled this one:

          the “nice looking boy” must have been confused/led-astray/otherwise corrupted when he did the bad thing.

          was pretty grotesque all by itself.

        6. Never mind, sorry, I didn’t see your last comment before I posted mine.

          Please try to understand that the words “ick” and “icky” are so commonly used as an insult towards people in a particular group I belong to, that I reacted very strongly to the use of such words against me, regardless of context. As well as to what seemed to be an association of what I said with the kind of thing that apologists for things like gang rape like to say. I’m done.

        7. In fact, I was initially a little sympathetic towards him, because of what all his friends said about him, and I thought perhaps he was acting under his older brother’s Rasputin-like influence.

          You mean that reaction? You can pretend I made up a bunch of stuff you said and call that grotesque, but you went from that to this

          one of the reasons I was inclined to feel sympathetic (and I know it’s true of others) was that he was such a beautiful child, with such an angelic face, in some of the photos I saw of him when he was younger. All that curly hair, the rosy cheeks, and so on.

          Yes, I found your initial reactions, as characterized by yourself, to be icky and your use of ethnicity based appearance comparisons to be problematic. You see no issue with any of that and find my problems with it to be wrong. Fine. I look forward to agreeing with you on something in the future, but this certainly isn’t a candidate for that.

        8. Doh, I take too long to write.

          I’m not familiar with “ick/icky” in the context you’re talking about, but I’ll keep that in mind. I tend to see the “nice boy” comments more in regards to murders where I’m from, hence the connection in my mind.

          Grotesque really sets me off for some reason. Sorry 🙁

        9. Sorry about the “grotesque.” I take it back. It isn’t a word I use much, and it wasn’t justified.

          People use “icky” all the time to characterize trans women. Along with disgusting, creepy, etc., etc.!

          I’m especially sensitive right now because of something — not those words, but it still hurt — that my father’s wife said to me last night at dinner, which was a joint celebration of my father’s 93rd and my son’s 23rd birthdays.

        10. I’m sorry to hear that. Celebrations ought to just be celebratory, petty hurtful bullshit checked at the door.

          I’ve been like a raw nerve for the last couple of weeks and will probably continue to be rather “grrr” for a few more. Less commenting, more rats, Dr Who and ice cream from this quarter methinks.

          There’s a word I love, just the mouthfeel alone, methinks.

  9. I just had to leave a facebook group that considers itself feminist yet allows a man to post things about right wing women that include his comments about how ugly they are. And upon my pointing out this sexism, he accused me of having penis envy. And then I was accused of attacking him for not being feminist enough.

    1. Ugh, how gross. I hate it when liberal men assume they can’t be sexist.

      Random: This week there have been a lot of patients on phenobarbital at the clinic, and I have to resist the urge to change it.

      1. This week there have been a lot of patients on phenobarbital at the clinic, and I have to resist the urge to change it.

        lol!

      1. Yup. I blasted them and left because I don’t have the time or spoons to deal with that crap. Sexism is sexism no matter who it’s coming from, and then to use more sexism against a woman who points it out? Nope. Not gonna bother.

  10. Getting my IUD put in Wednesday! I don’t think I’ve ever been this excited about a gyn visit.

    1. So exciting! Just a note of caution: carry around a tampon, just in case… I’ve had mine in for two or so months now, and I randomly start bleeding every once in awhile. Just for a couple hours, very lightly. Apparently it’s normal, and it’ll go away, but for the time being, it’s driving me nuts.
      It’ll be awesome having it in, though, so ENJOY!

      1. Thanks for the tip! I’ve never had problems with break-through bleeding while skipping my period or using a 91-day cycle pill, so fingers crossed.

  11. I just want to thank all the folks who left me well-wishes and support on last week’s thread (regarding the death of my father). Your thoughts helped me a lot.

    1. I hope you’re continuing to find support; it seems like our people have been losing loved ones lately. It’s so hard.

  12. I had my baby. Miraculously, we got lucky a second time with a great one (ie, one who sleeps a lot and doesn’t cry too much). She’s lovely …she looks like a grumpy old man sometimes, but hey, infant. I’d forgotten how beautifully, touchably smooth newborns’ skin is. I’m happy to have her on the outside at last.

    Our 2 year old is adjusting to her baby sister. Unfortunately, the 2yo had a pediatrician visit earlier this week and he thinks she may have a speech delay. He’s pressuring us to have her evaluated by someone from the county. At 24 months kids are supposed to have 50 words. She has about 35 including animal noises and does seem to gain more all the time. Both our sets of parents think she is doing absolutely fine. I’m not sure what to do.

    1. Congratulations, want!

      And please don’t freak out about the word delay thing… I know lots of kids (I was one of them) who were below 50 words at 2, but then exploded into speech of the full-sentences kind. (Also, new babies often cause some regression in older siblings. IDK that might be going on.) As long as she’s picking up new words, it’s probably not time to worry yet.

    2. Congratulations on the new baby! How wonderful! And I agree that as long as your 2-year old is continuing to say new words, and understands what you say, you shouldn’t be too worried. 50 words is just an average; it’s not an inflexible rule!

    4. Congratulations! =]

      I didn’t know more than five words until the age of 4, so I don’t think you need to worry too much about the speech delay. Plenty of kids learn speech slowly and most of them turn out just fine I believe.

    5. 15 words or so doesn’t seem that delayed to me. And if she’s gaining more all the time, that doesn’t leave much of a gap. It seems to me that the pediatrician might be overreacting.

    6. Congratulation on your little one!

      If you do go the therapy route for your two year old I hope she has fun and enjoys the undivided attention.

    7. Congratulations! That’s wonderful news! I wish you and your family great joy. And I join the chorus of people who don’t think you need to worry too much about your older child. But perhaps getting a second opinion would help to set your mind at ease?

  13. After weeks (make that months) of putting off signing up for a first aid course (I have a MASSIVE fear of making phone calls), I finally took the plunge and made the call to sign up! For the first time in what feels like forever, I feel like I’ve accomplished something 🙂
    And my birthday is on Tuesday!!!!! So I’m sending all of you good vibes and sunshine and smiles because everyone deserved them.

      2. Lovely quote there from Adrienne Rich about how gay male culture is tainted by profound hatred for women. She always did despise gay men, didn’t she.

        1. Not that “gay men hate women” wasn’t (and probably still is) a common stereotype about gay men. (Obviously I’ve heard some gay men say misogynistic things. Far less than I’ve heard from straight men.)

        2. I read so much of that in the mid to late 80’s that I’d have taken it for almost universally held opinion had I not had the good fortune that that was during my most socially active period when I was involved in an organization that gave that stereotype the lie. At least nobody who fit the stereotype lasted very long.

          If only I could remember who the speaker was at a conference I helped organize who insisted that ALL Pornography Degrades Women – NO Exceptions. Whoever she was, she declined to respond to the point of another speaker who maintained that the all-male variety didn’t (necessarily?) do so.

      3. I’m not familiar with adrienne rich and her brand of feminism.

        But the theory entailed there in the blog is that a certain brand of porn only exists there and is also appealing only because of the influences of a toxic society.

        in short, your choice of pornographic indulgence is not your own but a result of brainwashing by the patriarchy.

        I’m split on the issue.

    2. Nope nope nope. I did some digging through the site and they are disgustingly anti-trans. Into the internet rubbish bin they go!

      1. Aah , I think I know the post you might have stumbled upon there.

        It was the one where they accused trans women of silencing cis women and some other really far fetched stuff.

        yeah that bothered me too

  15. I’m increasingly thinking US high schools should teach a basic level Constitutional law class. There was a lot of confusion over what the Miranda law stuff meant, and if I have another argument about what free speech does NOT mean, I’m going to find knitting needles and put them through my eyes.

    Does anyone have thoughts on this?

    1. I dunno… I did have a required government class which I think is common and mostly centered on the constitution/amendements and landmark supreme court cases and etc. We discussed Miranda v. Arizona but not NY v Quarles. I think the problem was one of, idk. The shallowness of the class.

      I think really basic shit could (and should) be folded into a more rigorous but broad government class but a class centering only on constitutional law appeals to me too.

    2. I’m not sure how much good that would do. Considering the drop-out rates in a some areas (50% and the like), and the fact that it would probably be a higher-level class (for seniors or juniors) it means a lot of people would never take it as a result, so it probably couldn’t be used to bring the total general population up to the same level on the subject.

  16. I just had to read “The Girl On The Plane” by Mary Gaitskill for one of my classes. Anyone else read this? It’s horrible. Gah! Fuck! Triggering shit.

    Does anyone else get assigned reading in classes that’s like this?

    1. I assign reading in my classes that could be triggering. I try to remember to mention it when I do, or at least to mention it on the first day of class, but I can’t claim perfection there. Literature deals with seriously upsetting stuff, particularly feminist literature. I don’t think there’s any way around that.

  17. Just watching this week’s Doctor Who, and Clara shushed the Doctor!

    That said another less than stellar Bechdel test result.

  19. My team won our game today 6-0, but some guy went all ragey, and blasted the ball into my face. These bruises should be fun to explain at work tomorrow. Luckily I used to play on a team with my boss, so he knows what’s up.

    You’d think it was the quarterfinal of the Champions League, and not 30+ coed Sunday rec league.

      1. It became obvious to him that he sucked, because he couldn’t get anywhere near the goal, let alone get a shot off, so he kicked the ball as hard as he could, and because he had no aim, hit my face. He didn’t do it on purpose, but that sure doesn’t make it hurt less.

        1. Ugh, okay, that’s better than what I was imagining, but still… I have no patience for adults who become enraged over a sports game. What a child.

  20. I have been hesitant to post because I think it would be a bad move for me to tell tales out of school (literally!)…but I think I could use the moral support, as well.

    So, suffice it to say that I and others have been trying to fight the good fight to make my school’s representation of feminism be and signal itself as the kind of feminism that welcomes LGBTQ+ people and perspectives, and while of course it is worthwhile, it is tiring. Less tiring, of course, than it would be for somebody not cis, I understand. And I’m still grappling with that difficult student.

    On the good side, my godson is a constant delight. Even the other morning, when he’d managed to get his pajamas and his diaper off before I had woken up. It was not as bad as it could have been…but as I told him while cleaning him up, “you only get away with things like this because you’re so cute!” He smiled cutely up at me in response.

    1. EG

      I hope there’s someone (or even better multiple someones) at your school with whom you can commiserate. I’m sorry you’re still dealing with that crummy student. Maybe you could allow yourself a little me-time. How about digging up some recreational reading material, grab a nosh and a blanket, and head to the park. Find a tree and silence your phone. Maybe this or some other activity will enable you to recharge and gain a fresh perspective.

      Your godson sounds super yummy!

    2. EG, I think you’re an amazing ally,* and that what you’re trying to accomplish is wonderful.

      * I use that word because you’ve said that you don’t really consider yourself part of the LGBTQ community, even though you’d be perfectly entitled to to so given the way you’ve described your identification. You are most certainly a wonderful ally to, and advocate for, trans people. When I start feeling hopeless about the future, it makes me feel better to know that people like you — and others here — exist.

      And your godson is clearly the second-cutest little boy ever.

    4. Seconding Donna – it was because of commentators like you that I decided to stick around Feministe. I hope things get easier for you.

      1. Thank you so much, Aaliyah–hearing you say that (reading you write that, I guess) means the world. I hope you don’t mind me saying that I’ve been thinking of you a lot in this process, that knowing that there are no doubt women like you on my campus, living with conservative family, not able to live as they need to, to whom a trans-affirming, LGBTQ-welcoming program validation would probably mean a lot, is a huge part of what’s motivating me. Those students need and deserve our support! And for me, they have your face, symbolically.

        1. I definitely don’t mind you thinking about me in that way so long as you keep in mind that my face isn’t the only one out there. After all, I myself have my own set of privileges.

    5. Thank you to everyone–I really needed the moral support and it means a lot! The good thing has been getting in touch with other faculty who are committed to this change, so we’ve been supporting each other as well. And my adorable, delicious godson is napping in the next room–as soon as he wakes up I will take him to the park, and if that’s not R&R for me, I don’t know what is!

  21. Just though I would say hi. Long time lurker and I might try adding to discussions here. So

    *waves* HI!

    On a side note, I had a big case of FEELINGSBOMBS this weekend, alternately angry and crying… not fun… good thing Mr. Mirshana is really good at giving hugs.

  22. So, apparently this guy was deported from Saudi Arabia for being too hot. (It’s true, he is pretty hot, IMO)

    On the one hand, yay they figured out that women have lust, too. On the other hand, five hundred millionth facepalm induced by Saudi Arabia.

    And a bunch more nuanced stuff that I can’t really put words to right now, after midnight, when I’m still working on my paper for tomorrow, and should really not be letting myself be distracted by the internet.

        1. It was a pejorative term recently used in the thread about makeup — as in, surrendering to the patriarchy, etc.

    4. Opposite-sexer-normative, much? Would it really have killed them to begin the title with something like “Lovers of men” instead of “Ladies”?

  23. Geek note: The woman in the picture is not actually spinning, she is faking for the camera: very much like models here who smile while holding knitting needles the wrong way for the camera.

    The string hanging from her hand is the tell, as a real spinner would be holding a fluff of unspun cotton, or a puni, in her hand. She is holding an already spun string that is dangling from her hand.

    Love the pic, love the mood! Just saying. I actually own and use a charkha.

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