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V-Cards etc.

Jill

I talked to Karley from Slutever at Vice about virginity — why the whole idea is harmful and when to “lose” it (although for the record, I don’t even buy that virginity is a real thing). If any kind Feministe reader has some time this afternoon to write up a transcript of the video, that would be much appreciated. Apologies that I am swamped for the next few days and do not have the ability to transcribe right now. And, you know, it’s Vice, so prepare for hefty doses of irony and irreverence (again for the record, I think Karley is awesome and hilarious; it’s just not typical feminist blog fodder).

Posted in Sex

9 thoughts on V-Cards etc.

  1. Team effort? I’ll transcribe the first five minutes if other posters want to take another chunk or two?

    1. Quick pop in to say that the tag-teaming transcribing was an awesome idea.

      Quick creeper note to say that I totally lived in Jill’s neighborhood for a year without knowing it, but am now in the East Village. Creeping crisis averted!

  2. Ok, this is up to about 5:13. My first time doing a transcript, so let me know if I need to work on something. I feel like keeping things casual is best because you get the tone of everyone, but if you prefer the ‘you knows’ an incorrect grammar to go away, then let me know for next time.

    Trigger warning for mention of rape:

    Deep, dramatic voice: Previously on Slutever…

    Karley Sciortino: It’s no secret that coming during sex is hard for a lot of girls. For some reason, guys still don’t seem to understand the subtle nuances of the female vagina.

    If you’re just having sex with no clitoral stimulation, it just feels like inserting your tampon over and over. *laughs*

    Dr. Barry Komisaruk: Do you feel the stimulation or is it numb?

    Bobbi Starr: I have said myself that I think people recognize my butthole more than they recognize my face. *slow motion laughter*

    Introduction – Jazzy music plays

    Sciortino: Hey, it’s me. Slutever! So I get a lot of girls and boys who read my blog contacting me, asking when is the right time to lose their virginity. There’s a lot to consider for your first time. Who should you do it with? What’s the perfect age to get fucked? Should you wait and lose it to someone you love, or should you just get it over with, with a random? Or should you be like Jessica Simpson and wait until after your married to have sex?

    I normally say around 17 seems like a good time to throw your V-card to the hypothetical curb. But TBH, I don’t always give the best advice. Like once, I encouraged this guy to become a porn star, and he ended up being kidnapped and made into a sex slave. And I was all like, “Whhhhhoooooops.”

    But moving on, I figured that in order to give my peeps the best advice possible, I needed to truly understand the virgin state of mind. You know, some anthropological type stuff. And what better place to start than, duh, chuuurch.

    Conveniently, there’s a church really close to my apartment in trendy Williamsburg. They even have their own special chastity group, so I figured it would be the ideal place to get on the virgin wavelength.

    So I put on my virgin costume and skipped over to My Promise Christian Church in search of some non-sexual lulz.

    *Move to church. Soft organ music is playing in the background*

    Sciortino: Pastor Sacarelo, Pastor Tiffany, I want you to teach me about the benefits of abstinence.

    Pastor Sacarelo: When you don’t wait, it leads to many problems. Teenage pregnancy is one of the things that you have to deal with. STDs. Marriage. Also we believe in marriage, which is very important. Because the Bible says that marriage is honorable.

    Pastor Tiffany: The benefits is just you knowing that you’re priceless, that you’re precious, that you’re worth waiting for. You’re like a present that he chose to unwrap on his wedding day.

    Sciortino: But what about practically? Because naturally, human beings have sexual urges. What do you do if you’re dating someone and to not have sex?
    Pastor Sacarelo: Well, you want to obey the Bible, what the Bible says. We deal with a lot of young people here.

    Pastor Tiffany: And we give them tools. We tell them don’t go out alone. When you go out, go out in a group. You know, don’t sit in a car by yourself. You know, if you don’t put yourself in the position to be able to have sex, then you won’t do it.

    Sciortino: What is the deal with masturbation? Is that allowed?

    Pastor Sacarelo: One of the things about when you masturbate, um, the seed – the seed, which we believe is what impregnates a woman – it’s life. And you’re spilling that seed onto the ground.

    Sciortino: Like Onan.

    Pastor Sacarelo: On the person, on the ground, however you chose it.

    Sciortino: And so say I have a boyfriend…what are we allowed to do? Are we allowed to kiss or not?

    Pastor Sacarelo: Kissing can lead to other trouble. To other problems.

    Sciortino: Yeah.

    Pastor Sacarelo: You got to be careful.

    Sciortino: Right. It’s like they say weed is a gateway drug.

    Pastor Sacarelo: Yes.

    Sciortino: Like, kissing is like a gateway drug.

    Pastor Tiffany: It is.

    *laughter*

    Pastor Sacarelo: I do know of people who didn’t kiss until they got married, and that’s a good question to ask them.

    Sciortino: No kissing? What the – I gotta meet these guys.

    *Moves to interview Jerry and Jaylee*

    The pastor was saying that you guys had a very impressive –

    *laughter*

    – relationship because you guys waited to even kiss before you got married.

    Jaylee and Jerry: Yes.

    Jaylee: It was something that we wanted to wait to experience until we got married. So it was kind of a promise that we made to each other.

    Sciortino: So how long did you date before you got married?

    Both: Two years.

    Sciortino: Really? You didn’t want to rush into it?

    Jerry: Yeah, I didn’t want to rush into it because of past experience, relationships. Wanted to do it the biblical way. It’s act- we have a great marriage.

    Jaylee: And we have a solid friendship I would say because it wasn’t based on, you know, um, anything sensual.

    Sciortino: So how do you practice self-control, you know? What are some tips?

    Jerry: When we went on a date, we had, there was somebody there. There was always the mediator. We were alone in the movies. The first we ever went was just like this. *holds Jaylee’s hand* This is what we would do.

    *dinging noise when showing clasped hands with heart around them*

    Jerry: We love parks so uh…

    Jaylee: Picnics, and, you know, do things like that.

    Sciortino: If you think that way, it seems really impossible to find someone else who thinks that way.

    Jerry: It depends where you are. If you’re in the bar across the street, it’s, it’s people’s world view. And my experience is there will be guys going to bars just to get the girl drunk so they could, you know, take advantage.

    Sciortino: Rapists.

    Jaylee: Yeah.

    ——-

    There you go. I laughed so hard when Pastor Sacarelo mistook Onan for ‘on man.”

  3. about 5:13 to 10:06

    Sciortino: do you think that waiting made the first time you guys got together better?

    Jerry: The best

    Jaylee: Yeah.

    Jerry: Yeah, it was the best experience ever.

    Jaylee: even the kiss.

    Jerry: even the kiss. And to this day, I tell her, every time we kiss each other… nice, I mean…

    Jaylee: I can honestly say it was the best experience.

    *shot of Sciortino in room with people singing hymnals*

    Sciortino (over) : Jeez, apparently waiting to have sex with someone you love is really important! Those church people made me think that maybe I should have given virginity more of a chance, you know? Like, maybe I shouldn’t have given my v-card to my dad’s friend at our superbowl party back when I was twelve. Dang it! Did I make a major life mistake?! Luckily, while googling “EMERGENCY EMERGENCY! I NEED MY VIRGINITY BACK” I came across a special procedure known as hymenoplasty where a doctor surgically reconstructs your hymen for you. I needed to find out more. So I cabbed it over to fabulous, flushing queens, to meet with one of new york’s leading re-virginizer, dr. rho. He’s been giving women their hymens back for almost two decades now. I figured, why can’t he give me back MY hymen, so I can lose it to “the one”.

    * Sciortino and Rho in Rho’s office *

    Sciortino: So, Dr. Rho, can you explain to me what exactly hymenoplasty is?

    *bottom pop-up reads:
    Hymenoplasty
    (or hymen reconstruction surgery):
    the surgical restoration of the hymen. The normal aim is to cause bleeding during post nuptial intercourse, which in some cultures is considered proof of virginity.

    Rho: Hymenoplasty is a surgical technique where, uh, a hymen that’s been disrupted is repaired back to a virgin-like state. I use surgery to make incisions in the hymen and reconstruct the hymenal ring. with suchers to create a, uh, intact ring.

    Sciortino: You can essentially make people virgins again.

    Rho: Pretty much.

    Sciortino: if you get the surgery, the first time you have sex afterward, it’s going to be sort of like you’re a virgin again, it’s going hurt, it’s going to bleed, stuff like that?

    Rho: If the surgery is successful, then the patient has an excellent chance of bleeding and pain when they have sex.

    Sciortino: The women who come to you for the surgery, what do they normally say, what are the reasons why they’re getting it?

    Rho: Well there are different reasons, but often there’s a religious or cultural component.

    Sciortino: What I think is good about what you do is that some cultures or religions, if they’re… if a women isn’t a virgin on her wedding night it can be detrimental for them. And for those people, this is something that’s really profound that you’re doing.

    Rho: Patients tell me that it’s a life or death type of issue.

    Sciortino: but it sounds just like — don’t guys realize that… not all women bleed the first time?

    Rho: It is a fact that not all women bleed the first time they have sex.

    Sciortino: So basically the Hymen is right near the entrance of the vagina.

    Rho: Yes.

    Sciortino: Like how far in? Like this far?

    * Sciortino hold her fingers about 1.5-2 inches apart *

    Rho: It’s right at the opening of the vagina

    * Sciortino holds the fingers of her right hand in a circle and pushes her left index finger into the formed hole *

    Sciortino: so if you go like this it will break.

    Rho: Yes.

    Sciortino: So, like, if you’ve been fingered before, you probably don’t have one.

    Rho: It depends on the depth of penetration and how narrow the hymen opening was to begin with.

    Sciortino: And how much does it cost?

    Rho: $3500.

    Sciortino: After you get the surgery, how long do you have to wait to lose your virginity?

    Rho: I recommend at least six weeks.

    Sciortino: Do you think guys will be able to tell if my hymen is intact just by looking into my eyes?

    Rho: It’s very common that when the surgery is successful, and the patient is extremely happy that is restored and they can start fresh with a new partner.

    Sciortino: Yeah. You feel less slutty.

    Rho: Yes.

    Sciortino: I’m going to think about getting the surgery but I’m not going to make a decision right now.

    Rho: Okay.

    *Sciortino sitting in waiting room looking freaked out*

    Sciortino (voiceover): Wow, that surgery seems painful, expensive, and ultimately pointless. But like, should I get it?! Before I could decide, I needed to speak with a sex expert, as I have difficulty making decisions for myself.

    * shot of Sciortino walking up the stairs of a house*

    So I ventured to the fancy neighborhood of Carroll Gardens to visit Jill Filipovic. She’s a lawyer and journalist who’s been writing about feminist issues for years now. So I figured that she could give me some practical “lets get real girlfriend!” advice for people who live in 2012 A.D.

    * cut to Sciortino and Jill in a living room *

    Sciortino: You wrote an article in the Guardian called “The Moral Case for Sex Before Marriage,” in which you argued, basically, that waiting until you’re married to have sex is a bad idea. Why do you think that?

    Jill: Well, I don’t think that waiting till you’re married to have sex is always a bad idea, but I think that for most people, having sex before marriage is a very good idea. Uh, I think that sex and sexual activity is healthy: it relieves stress, it helps you sleep. And I also think it’s good to have a variety of relationships in your life, and to realize that what you do sexually isn’t what makes you a moral person or an immoral person. It’s how you treat people, including your sexual partners. Romantic relationships ARE stronger, when they’re based on intimacy.

  4. I can see that the segment you were in was edited, Jill, so maybe some of this ended up getting thrown away (because it’s discussed a little elsewhere in the episode), but I felt like you came across as sort of blustering past the whole differing-cultural-contexts-of-“virginity” thing. You describe emphasis on first sexual contact as “silly,” and while I do see your point, I feel like that’s dismissive of the concerns people who are oppressed by virginity myths do have.

    Also, I was disappointed that you appeared to use “intimacy” to mean sexual intimacy only, claiming that “romantic relationships are stronger” with “intimacy,” at the end of an answer when you’d been talking about sex. I just don’t feel it’s at all sound to suggest sex is a necessary part of all romance relationships, to begin with, and the idea that sex necessarily is something that strengthens such a relationship strikes me as oppressive, given that it’s really contingent on what the people in a relationship desire and feel comfortable with.

    1. I agree with the bit about intimacy. I’m a little irritated by the way sex has a monopoly over the idea of intimacy. I’m asexual, my partner and I are not sexually active, yet we ARE intimate!

    2. Yeah fair. For context, Karley and I spoke on camera for easily an hour. Only a few minutes of the total conversation were included in the piece. I do feel like they represented what I had to say very fairly, but of course given time constraints, a lot of the detail and nuance was cut out.

    3. When you’re on broadcast media you have to use certain euphemisms like ‘intimacy’ because you can’t say ‘f–king’. There are, for example, many types of intercourse just as their are intimacy, but if I was being interviewed about sex I might use ‘intercourse’ to mean ‘sexual intercourse.’ Additionally I don’t buy into the concept of ‘manhood’ and certainly not equating the concept to genitalia, but again, if in a situation where I had to watch my language due to broadcast regulations I might refer to a man’s penis as his ‘manhood.’

      It just goes to show that when you go one way in order to not offend one group (in this case, people who don’t like sexual swear words) it’s quite easy to end up offending another group (people who don’t like non inclusive language.)

  5. Hymenoplasty? WTF!

    I’ve kind of been wondering about this – from a male standpoint, so there is no assumption of value. I’m kind of wondering how men who went down my path but have already had sex for the first time reacted to it.

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