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Apparently straight people don’t have sexuality

Jill

There are a lot of things to hate about this contribution from two leaders of the Boy Scouts of America in defense of BSA’s decision to maintain their ban on gay scouts and troop leaders, but perhaps the weirdest is the headlined contention that “Sexuality Is Not Part of Scouts.” Are gay people the only ones who have “sexuality”? Do kids who are strongly attracted to people of the opposite sex lack sexuality? Very confusing. The piece goes on:

This week, the Boy Scouts of America announced that after a two-year evaluation, it is maintaining its membership policy to allow the organization to most efficiently accomplish its mission of preparing young people for life. As a private organization, the Boy Scouts of America may deny membership to anyone whose behavior creates a distraction to its mission.

“Gay behavior” is a distraction, apparently. Which is probably a fair point. I mean, gay people just have constant gay sex in front of everyone, wearing only their BSA-issued neckerchiefs, right?

With 2.7 million youth and 1.1 million adult members, the Boy Scouts of America represents every socioeconomic, religious and ethnic community across the nation. While there is one national policy that all councils and units follow, it is unreasonable to expect any single policy to accommodate everyone’s views about this topic. We fully understand and appreciate that not everyone will agree with the direction we’ve chosen.

The thing is, though, no one is even asking the Boy Scouts to issue a statement saying “Gay is ok!” No one is insisting that BSA institute social justice curricula. We’re just asking that BSA stop actively discriminating against gay people. And sure, there’s no way to accommodate everyone’s views, because some people think that gay people should be social outcasts and shouldn’t be allowed to participate in society. Some other people think that we shouldn’t treat gay people like second-class citizens. The BSA chose to accommodate the bigoted view.

But here’s the kicker:

But scouting won’t miss its small window of opportunity to teach lifelong lessons to its youth. Our role is to equip young people with life skills so one day, they can make their own decision about these issues. And we teach our members to treat those with different opinions with courtesy and respect at all times and to adamantly oppose the mistreatment of others based on any perceived difference.

It’s one of those laugh/cry paragraphs. This is how you teach “lifelong lessons” to your youth? How you demonstrate respect? How you model “adamantly oppos[ing] the mistreatment of others”? These words mean things. And barring people from your organization because of who they’re attracted to, or because you perceive them as different and therefore immoral and unclean, is not respectful. It is mistreatment.

At least Feministe friend Nancy Goldstein is more optimistic.

54 thoughts on Apparently straight people don’t have sexuality

  1. As a mom of 3 Eagle scouts, I agree that sexuality has no place in Boy Scouts.

    Which is exactly why I’m disappointed by this decision. It shouldn’t even be an issue.

  2. We now have 4 boys and are on the same page about not putting them into any sort of BSA group because of their bigoted policies. A great alternative we have found for them is a group called the Indian Guides, which are all about public service and providing socialization opportunities for younger kids (both boys and girls.) I will agree upfront that the nomenclature is a bit troubling, but they do a lot of really great work, have a very strong non-discrimination policy and are not affiliated with any sort of religious organization.

  3. As with all the bigots, you wonder how they think this is going to play out in the next 20 years. Do they expect they’re going to be telling their grandkids about their heroic twilight stand against the encroaching forces of tolerance for gay people? It really seems like embarrassed silence would be the best PR strategy at this point.

  4. Let it be known that as of now, my response to meeting any of the BSA leadership will be to start singing George MIchael’s “Outside” at the top of my lungs.

  5. Asshats. My little boy really, really wants to join Boy Scouts — they’re pushing it hard at his school. But my little boy gave half his stuffed animals female names, loves a plushy pink Peep named Peep-Peep as one of his top ten favorite stuffies, and last year, asked for a pink kitty lunch box (which he took to school twice before finally deciding it wasn’t worth the hassle he was getting from other kids, but I praised him and called him brave for making the attempt). There is no fucking way I am letting him join an organization where the top brass is so homophobic that homophobia is an institutionalized policy. My boy could turn out to be as totally heterosexual as a straight-edged level, but the fact that so far, I have managed to keep him from believing that in order to be a boy he has to kill every part of his psyche that might possibly resemble a girl’s, means that he could fall in love with a new girl every week and still get attacked for being “gay” if he hangs around homophobes.

    The thing that burns me up is that Boy Scouts, or an organization like it, would be good for him. He’s got severe ADHD and no self-discipline; he’s full of constant nervous energy and bounces off walls, but inside, all he wants to do is play video games, and I can’t get him to go outside because he has no one to play with. He’s introverted and has a hard time making friends but I think he desperately does want more than he’s got. An organization where they teach him cool shit about camping and tying knots and where he gets to go outside with other kids would be good for him… but Campfire and 4-H are hard to find troops he can join, whereas Boy Scouts is every-frickin’-where.

    I’m furious at these assholes. You don’t get to position yourselves as the people who practically have a monopoly on “fun shit for little boys to do outdoors in a group” and then promote homophobia and intolerance of atheism. Get the hell out of the schools if you’re going to be promoting a religious belief.

  6. I’m furious at these assholes. You don’t get to position yourselves as the people who practically have a monopoly on “fun shit for little boys to do outdoors in a group” and then promote homophobia and intolerance of atheism. Get the hell out of the schools if you’re going to be promoting a religious belief.

    *Jumping up and clapping in agreement*

    I’m so there with you Alara, I find the whole thing so infuriating. They’ve become like the RCC, doubling down on their bigotry and homophobia in recent years. I hope you can find some sort of alternative group for your son to join and enjoy.

  7. Does it anywhere in their policies say, no gays lulz, or is it discrimination that comes down to decision makers within the organisation, which could be inconsistent.

  8. Does it anywhere in their policies say, no gays lulz, or is it discrimination that comes down to decision makers within the organisation, which could be inconsistent.

    It’s a policy, as is their exclusion of atheists.

  9. I’m not sure how the various Scouting associations around the world are organised, but the UK one certainly doesn’t have these stupid anti-gay policies. Not perfect tho, they still officially don’t like atheists (you don’t have to be xtian, but you have to believe in something). When my (atheist) flatmate started the process of becoming an assistant leader after years of volunteering, his troop leader just carefully left out the religious stuff so it never came up.

  10. i knew the problems with cub/boy scouts before i signed my kids up. sadly, they were the only game in town for outdoorsy stuff and was one other affordable and accessible outlet for doing things like camping and hiking and other things that i just dont have the time to plan out and organise by myself.

    the story has been all over the radio and it being summer and having more car time, my kids have heard the stories. so i asked my oldest what he wanted to do – did he want to stay in scouts even though, they dont let “boys who like boys” in and that you have to believe in god (which he doesnt, really) or did he want to stop.

    he wants to stay in it even though as he said “it’s not fair. everyone should get to be in boy scouts.” im hoping that i’ll be able to change more from within than without in the coming years. i pay my dues to the pack, but when it’s big BSA fundraising time, i dont give them a dime.

    this decision, like the prop 8, is mostly to do with mormon muckity-mucks. the mormon church does not have an church run boys youth program. all boys are signed up for scouts and they are shuffled through whether they want to or not, whether they really do the hard work or not. (girls, on the other hand, arent automatically signed up for girl scouts) that’s why Mormons have the highest numbers of scouts and the largest percentage of eagles are of the mormon faith. it cheapens the rank of eagle when they are practically given away.

  11. @ alara – it may be worth it to try out a few troops. some are most open than others. again, it’s a deal with the devil but sometimes you have to work with what you are given.

  12. Alara, your story is so heartbreaking to me, and it makes me all the angrier at the idiots (many of whom I’ve encountered online in the last few days) whose response is “Why do you have to infiltrate OUR organization? Why don’t you just start your OWN group for gay kids?”

    Assholes.

    A passionately liberal friend has a son who’s nearing his Eagle badge. He hates scouting and they both hate what it represents, but she’s been determined to get him through the Eagle rank “for college.” I suggested the other day that he complete all his requirements, show up at his Eagle ceremony, surprise everyone by declining the award with an eloquent speech about his precise reasons for doing so, watch his story go viral, write a killer college essay about it, and wait for the scholarship offers to roll in.

    Suddenly, she says, he’s excited about scouting again. 🙂

  13. this decision, like the prop 8, is mostly to do with mormon muckity-mucks.

    I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. The policy has been around for quite a long time, and Mormon’s are hardly the only anti-gay religion that supports the BSA. (Never mind other civic organizations, like American Legion, that also seem to do a good job being anti-gay, to one degree or another).

  14. I know I’m going to draw a lot of flak for this, but I don’t disagree with this decision (for reasons differently than those given by the BSA). Two of my nephews were molested by an openly gay scout leader, and it caused a lot of pain and grief to our family. Just like I think it would be inappropriate for an adult woman to shower with, share tents with, and generally be in close, isolated proximity to my son, I do not want an adult man who is attracted to makes in that kind of contact with my son. It just opens up the possibility for abuse. Will it catch every pervert? Of course not. Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

  15. Delurking to say OH NAWTASKOLLAR NO.

    Pedophilia is pedophilia. Homosexuality is homosexuality. These are two different axes. Never the twain shall meet except by coincidence.

    I’ll let the rest of the commentariat take down comment #14 because I just can’t with that right now.

  16. Just like I think it would be inappropriate for an adult woman to shower with, share tents with, and generally be in close, isolated proximity to my son, I do not want an adult man who is attracted to makes in that kind of contact with my son. It just opens up the possibility for abuse. Will it catch every pervert? Of course not. Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

    this is so moronic. a gay child molester who’s joining the boy scouts with the intention of molesting kids is hardly going to be flumoxed by a rule that says ‘no gays thx’. he’ll just pretend to be straight.

  17. Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

    This is just bad logic. All around. Bad. I want to maintain my cool, as this appears to be coming from a place of pain for you, but this is utter bullshit. Most kids are abused by straight men, so it would make the most sense to ban them from being in the Scouts. Why not avoid the obvious risk? If straight white men aren’t burdened with the behavior of all of the straight white dudes in history, don’t shoulder anyone else with that fucking shit.

  18. Two of my nephews were molested by an openly gay scout leader, and it caused a lot of pain and grief to our family.

    I’m sorry for what your family went through, but I do want to point out that your nephews were molested by a pedophile, who may have identified as gay.

    Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

    I think the bolded part answers your question nicely as to why this is not a fair policy. If you can block gays from Boy Scouts because of a fear of molestation, then logically you would have to block straight men as well, because either group is capable of being predatory.

  19. aaaand by ‘Bolded Part’ I mean the ‘Not Bolded Part’ because I fail with the quoting and such.

  20. I do not want an adult man who is attracted to makes in that kind of contact with my son. It just opens up the possibility for abuse. Will it catch every pervert? Of course not. Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

    Because there is no known risk. Adult men who are attracted to other adult men are no more likely to molest little boys than adult men who are attracted to adult women. One’s sexual orientation toward adults does not have to do with desires for children. When people say otherwise, they are categorizing desires for little boys as the same thing as desires for grown men, when, in fact, there is no relation between the two at all.

    See here:

    For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.

    Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as “fixated;” 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that “in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women….There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males…” (p.180).

    Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children’s hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).

    I am really sorry that some scumbag hurt your nephews. But there is still no correlation between gayness and child molestation.

  21. Just wanted to add this: the idea of gay men being sexual predators—a very old chestnut, possibly dating to the notion of ancient Greek “pederasts” (actually ephebophiles) and/or the fact that pedophiles (usually male) have easier access to boys, even if they would prefer girls—does not seem, for once, to be in play here, since Nawtaskollar avers that zie would be just as uncomfortable with a straight woman being around boys. So it’s the idea of androphilic adults being around boys that bothers zir. Which is still bad logic, because all androphilia indicates is that someone has “a sexuality,” and that that sexually is men-oriented; it is not an accurate predictor of whether or not someone is a pedophile, especially since, as has been stated many times (and even acknowledged by Nawtaskollar), pedophiles prey on available victims, and may well have preferred different ones. You might as well say that people with red hair shouldn’t be around kids because they’re more likely to be pedophiles; it would make just as much sense. Like everyone else has said, I find it highly suspect that it’s gay men, and not, say, Catholic priests, who are singled out as a “known risk.” People always go for the easy scapegoat.

  22. Nawtaskollar, first, there are no openly gay scout leaders. That’s the policy. So either you’re misusing the term “openly” or you are lying (which is what I suspect). Second, molestation has overwhelmingly been the act of people who publicly profess heterosexuality. A ban on GLB folks would not have prevented Sandusky, or so many of the church scandals, and there is no evidence that openly gay people molest at higher rates than publicly straight people. The known risk is pedophiles; the correlation between “gay man” and “pedophile” is no stronger than random; so using “gay man” as a proxy for “pedophile” is the opposite of avoiding a known risk. It’s scapegoating.

    I know you think it makes sense that adult men attracted to adult men are also attracted to boys. I know you think that, but it’s not really supported. In fact, pedophiles are attracted to children, and people who are not pedophiles are not. By arguing that someone who is gay is also attracted to children, you’re projecting your own flawed view of how sexuality works on a group of people very different from you. Unless you fantasize about molesting young girls, in which case you are a pedophile and need to seek help to control your urges.

    I’m not saying this because I want to change your mind. I just want other people to see a substantive response. You’re a bigot. You should work on that.

  23. P.S. Just to be clear, I second what EG says: I define homosexuality as an attraction to ADULTS of the same sex, and pedophilia as being on a different plane altogether, neither “heterosexual” nor “homosexual.” I realized I might have sounded like I believed there was actually overlap between “pedophilia” and “homosexuality” in my previous post.

  24. @ Nawtaskollar:

    Gay /=/ pedophile.

    Seriously, look up those terms in the dictionary. Use TeH Google. There is NO excuse for being so #%_@! ignorant.

  25. Maybe I used the wrong term. My nephews were in their teens when this happened…they looked pretty “grown up.” To me it would be like letting straight men lead teen girls into the woods for several days, camping and showering together. It’s creepy and inappropriate.

  26. Oops, others beat me to it.

    Anyway, this:
    I suggested the other day that he complete all his requirements, show up at his Eagle ceremony, surprise everyone by declining the award with an eloquent speech about his precise reasons for doing so, watch his story go viral, write a killer college essay about it, and wait for the scholarship offers to roll in.

    I’d like to buy you a drink for that, ABlogofTheirOwn. A toast to you! 🙂

  27. It’s not a question of “looking grown-up,” though. If you click through to the paper I linked, you’ll find that there is no correlation between child molestation of any kind and gayness. None. At all. The overwhelming majority of child molestation is perpetrated by men who either have no sexual orientation beyond “children” or men who sleep with women. It would make more sense to ban straight men from being Boy Scout leaders, if child molestation is the issue.

  28. Indeed, when it comes to ephebophilia, the article I linked to has this to say:

    “Here again, there is no inherent connection between an adult’s sexual orientation and her or his propensity for endangering others. Scientific research provides no evidence that homosexual people are less likely than heterosexuals to exercise good judgment and appropriate discretion in their employment settings. There are no data, for example, showing that gay men and lesbians are more likely than heterosexual men and women to sexually harass their subordinates in the workplace. Data from studies using a variety of psychological measures do not indicate that gay people are more likely than heterosexuals to possess any psychological characteristics that would make them less capable of controlling their sexual urges, refraining from the abuse of power, obeying rules and laws, interacting effectively with others, or exercising good judgment in handling authority.”

  29. And again, sexual orientation is not a predictor of appropriate or inappropriate behavior. You’d hope that adult men COULD be around teenage girls without anything inappropriate happening, because, you know, you try to hire responsible people. If people are irresponsible, you can’t predict that from their sexuality (in this case, straight). If people are pedophiles, you can’t predict that from their claimed sexuality, either.

  30. Two of my nephews were molested by an openly gay scout leader, and it caused a lot of pain and grief to our family. Just like I think it would be inappropriate for an adult woman to shower with, share tents with, and generally be in close, isolated proximity to my son, I do not want an adult man who is attracted to makes in that kind of contact with my son. It just opens up the possibility for abuse.

    *Facepalm*

    By your logic I shouldn’t be allowed to participate in my son’s scouting activities, since I have dated men. But I’m not a pedophile, so I don’t pose a risk to my son and his friends. And I don’t know about other troops, but ours has a great deal of involvement from the parents, so there are all kinds of men-liking women lurking around my helpless son. Fortunately, they’re into men, not six year-old boys.

  31. Maybe I used the wrong term. My nephews were in their teens when this happened…they looked pretty “grown up.” To me it would be like letting straight men lead teen girls into the woods for several days, camping and showering together. It’s creepy and inappropriate.

    Yeah, because we know all straight men who lead teenage girls want to sexually assault those teenage girls. There’s no way they can’t be sexual predators! We all know that men have uncontrollable libidos!

    If you can’t see the absurdity in those beliefs, then it’s no surprise that you’re being bigoted against gay people in this context. It’s almost as stupid and bigoted as saying that straight fathers should spend less time with their daughters so that they don’t molest them.

  32. Right? And because I am bi, I should not be allowed near young people of any sort whatsoever, I guess.

  33. It’s almost as stupid and bigoted as saying that straight fathers should spend less time with their daughters so that they don’t molest them.

    This.

    My niece was molested by her father. It wasn’t because he’s a heterosexual, though. It’s because he’s a pedophile who likes young teenage/preteen girls. Not my sister’s fault for allowing a self professed hetero man around her child, not society’s fault for approving of normal father/daughter bonding, not the judge’s fault for giving him joint custody…. Totally the fault of my ex-brother-in-law, for being a sexual predator.

  34. Right? And because I am bi, I should not be allowed near young people of any sort whatsoever, I guess.

    So….. Is this just your way of saying you don’t want us (other feministe commenters) asking you to babysit? Killjoy.

    I may use this excuse any time I want out of parental volunteer stuff at my son’s school or cub scout activities. (Sorry! I’m too queer to volunteer!)

  35. Is this just your way of saying you don’t want us (other feministe commenters) asking you to babysit?

    I would love to babysit! But most of my babysitting time for the past 7 months and the foreseeable future has been occupied by my wondrous godson, whose mother, my best friend, is perfectly comfortable letting me tickle him, kiss his belly, and change his diaper even though she knows that on more than one occasion, I have had sex with a grown man.

  36. FWIW, local troops have different policies about homosexuality and theism in scouts. I’m an atheist Eagle Scout and my little brother is a gay Eagle Scout. We attended different troops in our conservative Texas town, neither of which asked us about our religious beliefs or sexual preferences when we were up for boards of review. Would we have been kicked out or denied advancement if we’d come out to our respective troops? Neither of us is sure.

    On Mormons and Scouts: That post was correct. The Mormon Church has a disproportionate influence on scouting, due to its deep pockets and the way the LDS church has embraced scouting. An estimated 1/9th of Scouts are Mormons, and Brigham Young University has become the first university in the USA to offer a degree in scouting, “Scouting Education.” As much as I despise Penn & Tellers’ shitty politics, their episode on Boy Scouts was informative (NSFW) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndoP1YW72Zk

    Nawtaskollar: I’m very, very sorry to hear about what happened to your nephews. That’s disgusting. The comments below show that your take on the situation was ignorant, though. And Boy Scouting now has a policy called two-deep leadership. Boys are not allowed to be with one non-parental adult at any time. At least two adults MUST be present.

    The thing that pissed me off most when I was a kid was the flag-waving. The Boy Scouts are an unrelentingly nationalistic organization. They will teach your boy how to keep calm under pressure, survive in the wilderness, (sometimes) be a leader, prepare for worst-case scenarios, and push his body physically. They won’t teach him how to think critically.

  37. It’s not just in the U.S. that Scouting is affiliated with particular religious organizations. In France, Scouting is associated so heavily with Catholicism that non-Catholics really steer well clear of it, and it attracts fringe right-wing types (Le Penistes, Vichy apologists, etc.). It actually might be officially a Catholic organization, I’m not sure.

  39. Ugh, just wanted to add that for those who haven’t seen Penn and Teller’s Bullshit (the video I linked), the guys can be sexist and are also obnoxious libertarians. I haven’t watched an episode of the show in years so I’d kinda forgotten.

  40. Isn’t this the same organization that had to be forced to root out pedophiles? If their view of morality counts homosexuals as immoral (and leaders who hold this view often compare them to pedos to keep their supporters from thinking) then why did parents and law enforcement have to work so damn hard to keep people who are actually immoral by everyone’s standards out of the BSA? For the more visually stimulated, there’s a South Park episode exploring the selective “morality” BSA employs.

  42. As a formerly kicked-out Cub Scout (no prize for guessing why) at a time when the policy was not general knowledge (and, in all fairness, long before I’d have even known the meaning of the label, let alone attached it to myself), I present with distinct bias on this one. I applaud and award a Fabulous! cookie (that was how I was described when I was dismissed) to Ms Rogers for her choice. It’s a shame that the immediate consequences of that decision to those who make it tend to be negative.

    And, yes, I entirely defend the right of each individual parent (or pair/grouping thereof) to make a free and individual choice about this. I just hope it’s acceptable if I don’t reward every choice with a cookie (though I shall save one for the declining Eagle; that’s one of the few Change From Inside ideas that might actually accomplish something). Part of me agrees with the NYT Ethicist that people who try to change the BSA from the inside usually just end up going on camping trips from the inside, but part of me can acknowledge that even little efforts may help, thank people for trying at all, and hope they’ll be able to add to what efforts they can make.

    Wow. I’m amazed this has only given me a mild headache.

  43. Ha, this is like saying my being near others will cause them to be infected by teh trans.

    That is not an actual thing, by the way. :p

  44. If Boy Scouting was about sexuality they’d allow girls. Trust me, the membership is MUCH more in favor or that, than of allowing gayboys.

    And yet they still don’t do it. Funny huh?

  45. Re: Change from within… some people have had some success with that. The Northern Star Council in Minnesota permits gay scouts, gay-parented scouts, and gay scoutmasters, and has officially done so for twelve years. When the national council announced their reaffermation of bigotry, the NS council announced their reaffirmation of their more inclusive policy. (I suspect they’ve gotten away with it without penalty from the National level partially because they’re the biggest one in the state and their area includes the Twin Cities.)

    That’s a way to make change from within work — lower tiers in the hierarchy gradually supporting inclusion of gay or gay-affiliated or presumed-gay scouts and scoutmasters in their geographical region, until eventually it will be more harmful for the national council to continue to spurn the inclusive councils than to “spurn” the Catholic Church and LDS Church by not sharing and reinforcing their bigotries.

  46. Does it anywhere in their policies say, no gays lulz, or is it discrimination that comes down to decision makers within the organisation, which could be inconsistent.

    Yes, but this is fairly well hidden. I participated in boy scouts for a long time and never became aware of this until fairly late. My troop’s leaders are quite liberal. It never came up although I don’t doubt that they would have just let anybody join.

    Other troop leaders, coucil leaders, etc do enforce the policy.

    I am also an atheist. Hooray for passing privilege.

  47. Can straight men molest boys? O course. Are most gays predators? Absolutely not. But why not avoid a known risk?

    NO. Most pedophiles do not have a history of gay adult relationships. Also, shouldn’t you be afraid of adult hetero women?

    WRONG WRONG WRONG.

    Although it also should be noted that Boy Scouts are ages 13-18 and therefore not exactly pedo-….

  48. Actually boy scouts can be as young as 11. Some kids made Eagle at only 13 in my area, so its impossible that they started at age 13 as well.

    The legal cutoff for pedophilia tends to be 14 in any case. This is demonstrated by scaling stat rape laws having age ranges such as 14-18 on the low side of the law and 17-21 on the high side.

  49. PH’s Operation ‘Protect teh Babbies’, inspired by the sage wisdom and truth of NotAScholar*:

    As of midnight tonight all children are to be removed from their homes. The boys will be divided up between the lesbians, the girls will go to the gay men. Bisexuals need not apply, too risky and molesty.

    The children will be cared for in warehouses special SecurOHomes, paid for by their parents, who are now free to work round the clock.

    Visiting is allowed once a month. Children will be kept safe in plexiglass boxes on wheels, so that boys are safe from androphiles and girls from gynaephiles.

    Children will be released on reaching 18.

    What could keep kids safer than that? The only alternative is to realise that it isn’t the Big Gay Bogeyman in the bushes that children are at risk from, that it’s male relatives, especially custodial ones, that pose the biggest risk to children of either sex. But that’s too hard isn’t it? Truth is better suppressed and buried, and replaced by bullshit fucking homophobia, so much easier to swallow. All the better to fit into our “Just World” scenarios, where preventing molestation is as simple as avoiding icky queers.

    *I’m using a mobile device with predictive text, so I’m not wasting time typing that phonetically.

  50. Well, good for the Northern Star Council! I wonder if this will eventually play out on a similar line to that of the Episcopal (Anglican) Church, which has reached the point of various anti-gay congregations seceding after advances by the other side. Quite a way to go to get to such a point, but at least there seems to be progress in the correct direction.

  51. As young as 11? Gah. My memory must be going. Although that does explain the number of infantile dudebros-in-training in my troop.

  52. BIG UPS TO GIRLS SCOUTS OF AMERICA!
    We allow boys and gays. It was founded by Feminists. I don’t see why this is not a viable alternative. My brother was an honorary GS when I was a kid and trust me, he is a very macho manly man now.

    Do you think it has to do with the cover-ups of all the massive amounts of predatory violence against boys in the BSA? They are trying to pin it on the gays or something? Like by not allowing gays, they are going to stop having child rapes on the regular? It is so rampant throughout the organization– I would never send my son to BSA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases

    scroll to USA to view the horror: TRIGGER WARNING

  53. What do people here think about the notion of heterosexual men being Girl Scout leaders, if that included activities like e.g. going camping sleeping together in the same tent? From what I remember from my rather brief time in Boy Scouts, there were a number of “den mothers” who served as leaders, though I don’t think that involved much in the way of close contact or being alone with a single adult.

  54. Also, with apologies for introducing a potential derail, what is the reasoning behind who gets to share a bathroom, locker room, or group shower? If the motivation is to protect people from being naked around those who are attracted to them, the current gender separation obviously doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense. On the other hand, personally I don’t feel much discomfort at the thought of showering around same-sex homosexual people but much more discomfort at the thought of being naked around people of the opposite sex (or other sexes, I suppose). I’m sure that’s largely a product of social mores, but is there any deeper reason that it’s considered ok to make schoolchildren of the same sex shower together in P.E. classes but it’s considered such a violation of privacy for a man to peep in at a women’s locker room?

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